If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NYPost)   NYPD cops told to stand down by police-union to avoid any lawsuits from stop-and-frisk   (nypost.com) divider line 101
    More: Interesting, Benevolent Association, church members, N.Y.P.D.  
•       •       •

5795 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2013 at 5:43 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



101 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-24 01:37:08 PM
Translation: police told to obey the law.
 
2013-08-24 01:44:44 PM
Basically all the worst parts of the bible.
 
2013-08-24 01:45:09 PM
Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"
 
2013-08-24 01:50:45 PM
I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.
 
2013-08-24 02:05:03 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"


I know that area fairly well, not as well as a lifetime resident. I just got back from a trip to Long Island. Looks like they kicked a lot of the people out of the 5 boroughs and onto Long Island. Well, "kicked" via higher living costs and lack of affordable housing.

I'm sure crime will see an uptick, but their scare tactics are noted.

They don't seem to get this stupid little quote:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

If they have probable cause, by all means. However, skin color is not a probable cause.

We can have zero crime if we just let the police search all of us anytime they want. I'm pretty sure that goes against everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.
 
2013-08-24 02:11:22 PM

NewportBarGuy: We can have zero crime if we just let the police search all of us anytime they want. I'm pretty sure that goes against everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.


Police aren't trained to think like that. They're trained to think of ways to reduce crime by any means. It's up to the legislature to rein them in this way. I'm glad stop-and-frisk is over.
 
2013-08-24 02:15:18 PM

cameroncrazy1984: I'm glad stop-and-frisk is over.


Well, over as in stated policy. But, it'll never end profiling. I'm fairly sure that'll always be with us.
 
2013-08-24 02:29:15 PM

NewportBarGuy: cameroncrazy1984: I'm glad stop-and-frisk is over.

Well, over as in stated policy. But, it'll never end profiling. I'm fairly sure that'll always be with us.


I guess we'll have to see how many lawsuits they get.
 
2013-08-24 02:46:23 PM
Where is the snark?

This year started out awesome with snarky headlines. It was going better than early 2003. With the exception of the Manning leaking sitting down thread, we haven't had any beyond the call of duty headlines in a month or so. Can we at least try to be creative here?

I know, I am an Old School farker, but really, is anyone trying?
 
2013-08-24 02:56:43 PM

cman: I know, I am an Old School farker, but really, is anyone trying?


If you're so Old School, and you are, you should realize that the weekend headlines are kind of softballs. Not as much to choose from, the Admin on duty just picks a bunch and greens them.

It's $5 a month. You'll get over it.

/Unlike my headlines which almost always suck.
 
2013-08-24 02:59:07 PM

NewportBarGuy: cman: I know, I am an Old School farker, but really, is anyone trying?

If you're so Old School, and you are, you should realize that the weekend headlines are kind of softballs. Not as much to choose from, the Admin on duty just picks a bunch and greens them.

It's $5 a month. You'll get over it.

/Unlike my headlines which almost always suck.


Sorry I am just grumpy

I really need a nap
 
2013-08-24 03:09:11 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.


From Amendment 4:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...
 
2013-08-24 03:11:36 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.


Stop and frisk is inherently racist.

There is no other way around it.

Cops expect black and hispanic people to be thugs

All that matters IS the skin
 
2013-08-24 03:25:04 PM

cman: TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.

Stop and frisk is inherently racist.

There is no other way around it.

Cops expect black and hispanic people to be thugs

All that matters IS the skin


And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-24 03:34:26 PM
Why don't they go with cameras for all officers?  It's worked well for other police forces.
 
2013-08-24 03:38:38 PM

vpb: Why don't they go with cameras for all officers? It's worked well for other police forces.


Or...

i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-08-24 03:45:44 PM
unamused:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...

The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

Seeing a bunch of young guys hanging out on a street corner at night in an area known for drug trade, a middle aged guy driving around alone in circles around the block in an area known for prostitution, or seeing a guy walking down the street constantly adjusting his pants like he's carrying a gun would all seem to be reasonable reasons to search someone.

Fark It:


And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.

New York and Chicago are both large multiracial multiethnic cities with huge wealth inequality, a history of gang violence, and strong firearm control legislation.  NYC has a crime rate much lower than Chicago, why is that?
 
2013-08-24 03:46:12 PM

Fark It: And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.


Yep. I think the stats on the actual stops to arrests ratio is like, a crazy low number.
 
2013-08-24 03:46:48 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.


They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.
 
2013-08-24 03:46:59 PM

TuteTibiImperes:
New York and Chicago are both large multiracial multiethnic cities with huge wealth inequality, a history of gang violence, and strong firearm control legislation.  NYC has a crime rate much lower than Chicago, why is that?


Because there is nearly a battalion of policemen on every corner
 
2013-08-24 03:54:02 PM

cameroncrazy1984: TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.


I agree.  They shouldn't target the stops based on race.  If they're based on suspicious behavior, I don't see a problem.
 
2013-08-24 04:07:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: New York and Chicago are both large multiracial multiethnic cities with huge wealth inequality, a history of gang violence, and strong firearm control legislation. NYC has a crime rate much lower than Chicago, why is that?


NYC has priced a lot of the criminal element out of the city.  It has a growing population and a gigantic tax base.  The city is saturated with cops.  Chicago and NYC have roughly the same amount of officers per capita, but in NYC they're are twice as many cops per square mile as in Chicago.  And New York's gang problems pale in comparison to Chicago's.  Chicago is also more corrupt than NYC, and it's likely there is more ghost payroll in Chicago than in NYC.


FACT: No research has ever proven the effectiveness of New York City's stop-and-frisk regime, and the small number of arrests, summonses, and guns recovered demonstrates that the practice is ineffective. Crime data also do not support the claim that New York City is safer because of the practice. While violent crimes fell 29 percent in New York City from 2001 to 2010, other large cities experienced larger violent crime declines without relying on stop and frisk abuses: 59 percent in Los Angeles, 56 percent in New Orleans, 49 percent in Dallas, and 37 percent in Baltimore.
Stop-and-Frisk abuses corrode trust between the police and communities, which makes everyone less safe. Don't believe us? Then listen to NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly in 2000: "[A] large reservoir of good will was under construction when I left the Police Department in 1994. It was called community policing. But it was quickly abandoned for tough-sounding rhetoric and dubious stop-and-frisk tactics that sowed new seeds of community mistrust."

Chicago has large swaths of vacant and abandoned housing and other property, less density (less cops per square mile), much of the city is derelict.  NYC doesn't have this problem because of their wealth.


cameroncrazy1984: Fark It: And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.

Yep. I think the stats on the actual stops to arrests ratio is like, a crazy low number.


The hit rate for minorities (which the program targets, Bloomberg has admitted to and defended this in interviews) is actually lower than the hit rate for whites.
 
2013-08-24 04:21:59 PM

Fark It: TuteTibiImperes: New York and Chicago are both large multiracial multiethnic cities with huge wealth inequality, a history of gang violence, and strong firearm control legislation. NYC has a crime rate much lower than Chicago, why is that?

NYC has priced a lot of the criminal element out of the city.  It has a growing population and a gigantic tax base.  The city is saturated with cops.  Chicago and NYC have roughly the same amount of officers per capita, but in NYC they're are twice as many cops per square mile as in Chicago.  And New York's gang problems pale in comparison to Chicago's.  Chicago is also more corrupt than NYC, and it's likely there is more ghost payroll in Chicago than in NYC.


FACT: No research has ever proven the effectiveness of New York City's stop-and-frisk regime, and the small number of arrests, summonses, and guns recovered demonstrates that the practice is ineffective. Crime data also do not support the claim that New York City is safer because of the practice. While violent crimes fell 29 percent in New York City from 2001 to 2010, other large cities experienced larger violent crime declines without relying on stop and frisk abuses: 59 percent in Los Angeles, 56 percent in New Orleans, 49 percent in Dallas, and 37 percent in Baltimore.
Stop-and-Frisk abuses corrode trust between the police and communities, which makes everyone less safe. Don't believe us? Then listen to NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly in 2000: "[A] large reservoir of good will was under construction when I left the Police Department in 1994. It was called community policing. But it was quickly abandoned for tough-sounding rhetoric and dubious stop-and-frisk tactics that sowed new seeds of community mistrust."

Chicago has large swaths of vacant and abandoned housing and other property, less density (less cops per square mile), much of the city is derelict.  NYC doesn't have this problem because of their wealth.


cameroncrazy1984: Fark It: And ignoring the moral/legal/const ...


OK, that makes sense.  According to TFA the police seem to think that criminals view the risk of getting stopped and frisk as reason not to carry weapons though, of course, it could just be propaganda.

I suppose also on some level a policy which is mainly effective through fear of being randomly stopped may not be the best of ideas.
 
2013-08-24 04:29:16 PM

TuteTibiImperes: OK, that makes sense. According to TFA the police seem to think that criminals view the risk of getting stopped and frisk as reason not to carry weapons though, of course, it could just be propaganda.


You think?
 
2013-08-24 04:56:15 PM
Several rank-and-file cops said yesterday that they plan on following Lynch's advice rather than risk their careers.

"We are being told not to look for perpetrators of crimes because then we are opening ourselves up to a lawsuit and the job isn't going to represent us," a police source said. "We're being told not to go on fishing expeditions, stopping anyone who looks non-white, sticking our gloved fingers in their anuses and then tasering them if they flinch, stealing any electronics we find in their backpacks, planting a baggie of coke on them if they give us any lip, seizing whatever they've got in their wallets as 'drug money', and harassing them until they acknowledge our dominance. Crime is going to skyrocket if those people can walk down the street without fear."
 
2013-08-24 05:06:06 PM

TuteTibiImperes: cameroncrazy1984: TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.

I agree.  They shouldn't target the stops based on race.  If they're based on suspicious behavior, I don't see a problem.


A bunch of people hanging around together is not "suspicious behavior" either.
 
2013-08-24 05:23:39 PM

cameroncrazy1984: TuteTibiImperes: cameroncrazy1984: TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.

I agree.  They shouldn't target the stops based on race.  If they're based on suspicious behavior, I don't see a problem.

A bunch of people hanging around together is not "suspicious behavior" either.


In "high-crime areas" they'll argue that it is.  And a majority of stops are justified because the victim displayed "furtive movements"
 
2013-08-24 05:46:21 PM
Let citizens do whatever they want and crime will disappear.

Funny how that works.
 
2013-08-24 05:57:16 PM
I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.
 
2013-08-24 05:59:47 PM

mexican bathtub cheese: Let citizens do whatever they want and crime will disappear.

Funny how that works.


When every citizen becomes a nail, it is time to get rid of the hammers.
 
2013-08-24 06:02:59 PM

redmid17: I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.


Welcome to the NYPost.
 
2013-08-24 06:12:03 PM

gaslight: Translation: police told to obey the law.


Well, at least to violate it less blatantly so they don't get sued.
 
2013-08-24 06:12:52 PM
All that stop and frisk has done is teach thousands of young black men that they will NEVER be trusted, treated fairly, or be given a real chance to get ahead in this world. Basically they are being bullied by the government on a daily basis and suffer all the resulting mental and emotional issues that come with repeated bullying. The entire rest of the nation is slowly moving forward towards young black men realizing they have a shot in this world, but not NYC. NYC held an entire generation of black men back, telling them they were worthless, and teaching them that they may as well become criminals since they were going to be treated like one anyway.
 
2013-08-24 06:22:32 PM

cameroncrazy1984: redmid17: I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.

Welcome to the NYPost.


Indeed. It's the Fox News of newspapers.
 
2013-08-24 06:27:05 PM

gaslight: Translation: police told to obey the law.


this cannot be repeated enough
 
2013-08-24 06:30:19 PM
NewportBarGuy:

We can have zero crime if we just let the police search all of us anytime they want. I'm pretty sure that goes against everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.

But if you're not doing anything wrong and you have nothing to hide and you're a public-spirited citizen who's concerned about your community then you won't mind. And there's an easier way to help the police: walk around naked carrying your belongings in a clear plastic bag so they don't have to stop you very often.
 Don't forget, they hate us for our freedoms.
 
2013-08-24 06:38:34 PM

King Something: cameroncrazy1984: redmid17: I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.

Welcome to the NYPost.

Indeed. It's the Fox News of newspapers.


Is the NYPost our Daily Mail, or is the Daily Mail Britain's NYPost?
 
2013-08-24 06:40:27 PM
First all This message came from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association"

That means that message has a much force as the Boy Scouts declaring marshall law.

If a police officer changes their behavior based on this message from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association" they should be removed from duty and fired.
 
2013-08-24 06:43:28 PM

Fark It: King Something: cameroncrazy1984: redmid17: I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.

Welcome to the NYPost.

Indeed. It's the Fox News of newspapers.

Is the NYPost our Daily Mail, or is the Daily Mail Britain's NYPost?


Yes.
 
2013-08-24 06:43:40 PM

TuteTibiImperes: unamused:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...

The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

Seeing a bunch of young guys hanging out on a street corner at night in an area known for drug trade, a middle aged guy driving around alone in circles around the block in an area known for prostitution, or seeing a guy walking down the street constantly adjusting his pants like he's carrying a gun would all seem to be reasonable reasons to search someone.


Hanging out on a street corner, driving around in circles, adjusting your pants in no way constitute a crime.  Stop and frisk goes completely against the Constitution even in these situations.  Go be Big Brother someplace else...
 
2013-08-24 06:45:17 PM

mrlewish: First all This message came from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association"

That means that message has a much force as the Boy Scouts declaring marshall law.

If a police officer changes their behavior based on this message from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association" they should be removed from duty and fired.


What a practitioner of Marshall law might look like:

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-24 06:49:44 PM

mrlewish: First all This message came from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association"

That means that message has a much force as the Boy Scouts declaring marshall law.

If a police officer changes their behavior based on this message from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association" they should be removed from duty and fired.


If their behavior was different from this to begin with, they should have been removed from duty and fired. But then we'd have to replace pretty much the whole NYPD. So I'll settle for getting rid of the ringleaders.
 
2013-08-24 06:52:28 PM
Waaaah!  I got a slap on the hand for being a jackbooted thug.  Waaah!

I'll show you guys.  I won't do my job even more.

/Google translate from NYPD to slightly older brat
 
2013-08-24 06:54:17 PM

I've never seen them show any evidence that stop and frisk has anything to do with a lower crime rate, since the national crime rate has been falling like a rock too.

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.

Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad.

Homer: Thank you, dear.

Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

Homer: Oh, how does it work?

Lisa: It doesn't work.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.

Homer: Uh-huh.

Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?

[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]

Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
 
2013-08-24 07:01:25 PM
Well there is profiling as in stopping and frisking 90% of the black and hispanic males walking through a 90% white neigjborhhod....and profiling as in stopping and frisking 90% of the black and hispanic males walking through a 90% black and hispanic neighborhood.

Only one should actually be considered profiling. YMMV....
 
2013-08-24 07:10:15 PM
In other words the police union is saying: "Oh, you want us to be accountable for our actions? Nice city you got here... Be a real shame if something were to happen to it... Oh yeah, real shame... /cracks knuckles"
 
2013-08-24 07:20:00 PM
But they can't tell their membership not to shoot unarmed citizens.
 
2013-08-24 07:21:40 PM
I've never heard such a whiney assed bunch of armed badged pussies in my entire life.  Jesus, get a grip on yourself, man.  You just have to FOLLOW THE GOD DAMNED LAW YOU USELESS PIECE OF UNION SCUM.
 
2013-08-24 07:21:48 PM

Giltric: Well there is profiling as in stopping and frisking 90% of the black and hispanic males walking through a 90% white neigjborhhod....and profiling as in stopping and frisking 90% of the black and hispanic males walking through a 90% black and hispanic neighborhood.

Only one should actually be considered profiling. YMMV....


Yet if cops stopped and frisked 90% of white males walking through 90% black and hispanic neighborhoods you'd have a problem with it.
 
2013-08-24 07:29:15 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"


That's always been a police union tactic, it comes down to "if you down let our members be above the law, crime will skyrocket".
 
Displayed 50 of 101 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report