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(Global Post)   Syria: So we were just walking around Damascus and we stumbled upon these rebel tunnels, and wouldn't you know it, we found a whole bunch of chemical weapons just laying there, proving we didn't gas anyone. Funny how that worked out, ain't it?   (globalpost.com) divider line 135
    More: Unlikely, chemical agents, Damascus, Syrians, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel  
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5142 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2013 at 2:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-24 11:25:08 AM  
Ful scale bomb-the-fark out of them may still be a bit premature, but it may be bomb-them-a-little-until-they-let-the- UN-inpectors-in time.
 
2013-08-24 11:38:38 AM  
Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.
 
2013-08-24 12:05:12 PM  
Kind of goes against witness accounts of a bombardment taking place when people began having symptoms.
 
2013-08-24 01:04:22 PM  

Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.


Yeah, the chain of custody is more than a bit suspect.  Still, both sides seem bad here, the Syrian military is almost certainly using chemical weapons, and some of the rebels are Islamic extremists being backed by al-qaeda, we should just pull out and let them take each other out.
 
2013-08-24 01:05:32 PM  

Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.


Elements of the Syrian army that defected or captured along with the conventional arms they are using ?


Unlikely but not impossible.
 
2013-08-24 01:15:33 PM  

Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.


They got them from Libya. How did they get them from Libya? Hmm.....

And the Syrian army would be crazy to use them, they're beating the shiat out of the rebels, no need to resort to chemical weapons.
 
2013-08-24 02:28:23 PM  
media2.s-nbcnews.com

You're not fooling anyone, Ass.
 
2013-08-24 02:36:06 PM  
What really pisses me off, though, are people who have a knee-jerk reaction to any thought of intervention in the Middle East. This go around, it wouldn't be based on lies, it wouldn't be an experiment in creating "free economic zones," it wouldn't be a product of American hubris, and it wouldn't be sorting out anyone's daddy issues. In addition, we've learned a great deal from Iraq, like "DON'T DISBAND THE FREAKING ARMY PUTTING THOUSANDS OF VIOLENT MEN OUT OF WORK AND ONTO THE STREETS."

Those familiar with just how much nuance went into Obama's approach to Iran prior to the 2009 elections (at which point Republicans and AIPAC cocksuckers in Congress forced his hand) should feel pretty confident in his ability to finesse the situation.
 
2013-08-24 02:48:53 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.

Yeah, the chain of custody is more than a bit suspect.  Still, both sides seem bad here, the Syrian military is almost certainly using chemical weapons, and some of the rebels are Islamic extremists being backed by al-qaeda, we should just pull out and let them take each other out.


And then we carpet-bomb the survivor. Then everybody wins!
 
2013-08-24 02:49:07 PM  

Ambivalence: That's not suspicious at ALL.


Unlike using chemical weapons just after granting access to the UN inspectors. Got you.
 
2013-08-24 02:49:32 PM  

dj_bigbird: Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.

They got them from Libya. How did they get them from Libya? Hmm.....

And the Syrian army would be crazy to use them, they're beating the shiat out of the rebels, no need to resort to chemical weapons.


Exactly.  Looking at the death toll, and the hopelessness of their situation, it makes perfect sense that they would sacrifice some of their own people to get U.S. Military support.  If they've lost 1 million, then sacrificing 1,000 to turn the tide is acceptable collateral damage.
 
2013-08-24 02:50:20 PM  
Assad cannot lose or else the whole region will lose and rebels aka Al Qaeda will actually be in political control of a country. They will try to gain other countries afterwards. Eventually they'll fight to get back Jerusalem. This is just a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Back off USA.
 
2013-08-24 02:50:55 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: What really pisses me off, though, are people who have a knee-jerk reaction to any thought of intervention in the Middle East. This go around, it wouldn't be based on lies, it wouldn't be an experiment in creating "free economic zones," it wouldn't be a product of American hubris, and it wouldn't be sorting out anyone's daddy issues. In addition, we've learned a great deal from Iraq, like "DON'T DISBAND THE FREAKING ARMY PUTTING THOUSANDS OF VIOLENT MEN OUT OF WORK AND ONTO THE STREETS."

Those familiar with just how much nuance went into Obama's approach to Iran prior to the 2009 elections (at which point Republicans and AIPAC cocksuckers in Congress forced his hand) should feel pretty confident in his ability to finesse the situation.


The morons who devoutly supported the last war had fantasies in their mind of cheap oil for their Hummer, took Ann Coulter's speech of "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity" to heart (some of them probably also went to Iraq to try to convert Muslims after the "Mission Accomplished" banner was shown), and actually think the world would be better if it was run like a business (despite it not helping them at all, and hurting them in most cases, unless they have a few thousand shares in Exxon). There is no doubt that this mentality is continuing today, no matter how destructive it is.
 
2013-08-24 02:54:19 PM  

ontariolightning: Assad cannot lose or else the whole region will lose and rebels aka Al Qaeda will actually be in political control of a country. They will try to gain other countries afterwards. Eventually they'll fight to get back Jerusalem. This is just a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Back off USA.


I heard they all eat people for breakfast too
 
2013-08-24 02:56:16 PM  
I see the Fark warmongers are already up and running.
 
2013-08-24 02:58:53 PM  

ontariolightning: Assad cannot lose or else the whole region will lose and rebels aka Al Qaeda will actually be in political control of a country. They will try to gain other countries afterwards. Eventually they'll fight to get back Jerusalem. This is just a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Back off USA.


I've come around to that way if thinking. His regime is far from ideal as far as the west is concerned, but his government has maintained stability in the country for several years, and is more tolerant of other religions/world views than most countries in that region and certainly more so than the fundamentalists trying to overthrow him.

In other words, Assad is the lesser of two evils
 
2013-08-24 03:00:36 PM  
That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.
 
2013-08-24 03:02:27 PM  
Have to say the only complaint that I have against the way the Obama Administration has handled this situation was coming several months ago and saying the use of chemical weapons we be crossing a red line and then not doing anything once it was established chemical weapons have been used several times.

That being said, there really does not seem to be a "winning" strategy with this situation.  Assad is a bad, bad dude but the rebels are not the sort of folks I have any confidence in how they would rule should they be successful in taking down Assad.

Sadly, it seems the Syrian people are the big losers regardless of the outcome.
 
2013-08-24 03:05:55 PM  
i860.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-24 03:07:12 PM  
Let them figure it out for themselves. It's a choice between a regime and a bunch of religious fanatics, which really isn't much of a choice. Consider it Darwinian garbage cleanup and stay out.
 
2013-08-24 03:08:02 PM  
who cares, IMHO, if a ruthless dictator can't gas his own people , it's no fun being a ruthless dictator...see Sadam
 
2013-08-24 03:09:41 PM  
"thinly-veiled"

Like Gossamer Wings!, The Syrian Government is like a bunch of privilege teenagers. I bet they would beat up bus driver for writing down their BMW license plate #.
 
2013-08-24 03:10:36 PM  
Laying there? In English only hens and whores lay.
 
2013-08-24 03:10:50 PM  

hitlersbrain: Let them figure it out for themselves. It's a choice between a regime and a bunch of religious fanatics, which really isn't much of a choice. Consider it Darwinian garbage cleanup and stay out.


I agree to a point.  I would also encourage two more things:

1) Inform Syria, both government and rebel leaders, that the U.S. military will be evacuating any and all civilians that want to get out of the line of fire.  Use our influence in Iraq to have them moved across the Iraqi border until the mess blows over.

2) Tomahawks dropped on any confirmed launching point for chem weapon attacks, regardless of source.
 
2013-08-24 03:10:56 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-24 03:11:51 PM  

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: who cares, IMHO, if a ruthless dictator can't gas his own people , it's no fun being a ruthless dictator...see Sadam


You know, as the times change, job descriptions do as well.

Nothing is as fun as the good old days.
 
2013-08-24 03:12:21 PM  
He has political support of the majority of the country. The people protesting at the start where actually the people who are now rebel loyalists and not ordinary Syrians. the whole thing has been hijacked by our media into wanting us to get rid of Assad. 

Pumpernickel bread: ontariolightning: Assad cannot lose or else the whole region will lose and rebels aka Al Qaeda will actually be in political control of a country. They will try to gain other countries afterwards. Eventually they'll fight to get back Jerusalem. This is just a proxy war between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Back off USA.

I've come around to that way if thinking. His regime is far from ideal as far as the west is concerned, but his government has maintained stability in the country for several years, and is more tolerant of other religions/world views than most countries in that region and certainly more so than the fundamentalists trying to overthrow him.

In other words, Assad is the lesser of two evils

 
2013-08-24 03:13:58 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.

Yeah, the chain of custody is more than a bit suspect.  Still, both sides seem bad here, the Syrian military is almost certainly using chemical weapons, and some of the rebels are Islamic extremists being backed by al-qaeda, we should just pull out and let them take each other out.





I can't believe I'm going to say this but: for everything Al Queda is and has done, they aren't big on chemical weapons and don't possess an army of tanks or jets to cause mayhem with.
In this situation they've become the lesser of two evils and we really don't have to back them. We just have to make sure Assad tumbles down a flight of conveniently places stairs.

So we rattle his cage and let the people on the street can decide what they want from there. Maybe we can get a good foot in the door with the next government, or maybe we don't have to care if they keep their problems to themselves.

Its better than letting the use of WMDs go entirely ignored in a region that's loaded with these things.
 
2013-08-24 03:15:43 PM  
www.mememate.com
 
2013-08-24 03:15:49 PM  

Infernalist: That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.


I don't know, some of the brightest farkers believe Assad
 
2013-08-24 03:17:35 PM  

LewDux: Infernalist: That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.

I don't know, some of the brightest farkers believe Assad


I believe it's far more believable that a country known to have Chem weapons has used them on a rebel force.
 
2013-08-24 03:17:38 PM  

jpo2269: Have to say the only complaint that I have against the way the Obama Administration has handled this situation was coming several months ago and saying the use of chemical weapons we be crossing a red line and then not doing anything once it was established chemical weapons have been used several times.

That being said, there really does not seem to be a "winning" strategy with this situation.  Assad is a bad, bad dude but the rebels are not the sort of folks I have any confidence in how they would rule should they be successful in taking down Assad.

Sadly, it seems the Syrian people are the big losers regardless of the outcome.


The winning strategy is what we did with Japan during WWII. Crush everything with overwhelming force, and then spend the next 25 years or so rebuilding it until power is passed to the hands of a new generation.
 
2013-08-24 03:18:05 PM  

LewDux: Infernalist: That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.

I don't know, some of the brightest farkers believe Assad


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-24 03:20:15 PM  
way south:

In this situation they've become the lesser of two evils and we really don't have to back them. We just have to make sure Assad tumbles down a flight of conveniently places stairs.

Killing Assad is the same thing as backing AQ. You're killing Assad for them. You must be way south in Florida because your thinking skills suck.
 
2013-08-24 03:20:38 PM  
Can't americans figure out they are being played for chumps again?

It's all a damn set up so the people with power in the USA can make their next move in their real life game of risk. Meanwhile the military industrial complex gets another war to profit from.

For crying out loud many of the rebels in Syria are of the same group american taxpayers are paying the bill to fight in Afghanistan. These rebels are killing anyone not of their religion in Syria. They aren't good people. They are being funded and supported because they achieve a higher political goal for the powers that be. Never mind what happens to regular people in the process.

If you don't think a chemical weapons attack would be launched or staged to convince the american people into supporting yet another war where the US federal government has no business being in the first place you're naive and ignorant of history. Americans have been falling for bullshiat like this for about 150 years now. Then decades later they learn they were lied to but then it happens again. Remember the Maine. Gulf of Tokin. Germans killing babies, Iraq's military killing babies.... on an on. Chumps falling for it every time.

Americans are chumps and being played for chumps, again.
 
2013-08-24 03:22:15 PM  

Infernalist: That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.


Well you are.  Well, maybe not retarded but stupid enough not to realize that there are several rebel factions and none of them particularly like each other.  Gassing an opposing faction knowing that the idiot in the American White House is itching to get into the mess and will blame anything on the Syrian government is far more logical than the government gassing them when 1) they are winning, 2) have Russian advisors on the ground with more Russian equipment on the way, 3) have already let the UN in, and 4) have pretty much proven that the last gas attack was done by rebels (or at least proved it well enough to get everyone to back off for a while).
 
2013-08-24 03:22:35 PM  
way south ,
I can't believe I'm going to say this but: for everything Al Queda is and has done, they aren't big on chemical weapons and don't possess an army of tanks or jets to cause mayhem with.
In this situation they've become the lesser of two evils and we really don't have to back them. We just have to make sure Assad tumbles down a flight of conveniently places stairs.
So we rattle his cage and let the people on the street can decide what they want from there. Maybe we can get a good foot in the door with the next government, or maybe we don't have to care if they keep their problems to themselves.
Its better than letting the use of WMDs go entirely ignored in a region that's loaded with these things.


Who knows, maybe the US could have CIA agents on the ground aiming lasers if they don't already.  Communist forces used WWI in Russia and WWII in China to take power, and I would not put Al Queda past this.  Obama could try to do everything right, it could fall from a democracy to an Islamic theocracy and it would still be Obama's fault.  However St Reagan still had nothing to do with the fall of  Afghanistan.

The word WMD concern is being overplayed though.  Poison gas has been used since WWI and probably earlier.
 
2013-08-24 03:23:59 PM  

leadmetal: Can't americans figure out they are being played for chumps again?

It's all a damn set up so the people with power in the USA can make their next move in their real life game of risk. Meanwhile the military industrial complex gets another war to profit from.

For crying out loud many of the rebels in Syria are of the same group american taxpayers are paying the bill to fight in Afghanistan. These rebels are killing anyone not of their religion in Syria. They aren't good people. They are being funded and supported because they achieve a higher political goal for the powers that be. Never mind what happens to regular people in the process.

If you don't think a chemical weapons attack would be launched or staged to convince the american people into supporting yet another war where the US federal government has no business being in the first place you're naive and ignorant of history. Americans have been falling for bullshiat like this for about 150 years now. Then decades later they learn they were lied to but then it happens again. Remember the Maine. Gulf of Tokin. Germans killing babies, Iraq's military killing babies.... on an on. Chumps falling for it every time.

Americans are chumps and being played for chumps, again.


I think you're freaking out over nothing.

Nothing that's done in Syria is going to provoke the US into getting physically involved.  We might send in covert agents and work in diplomatic ways....we might even try to arrange some help for the civilian population, but that's it.

Satan himself could materialize in Damascus, fifty feet tall, and start rampaging like some Godzilla figure and the US would send a stern letter of disapproval to the Embassy of Hell.

We're not getting involved.
 
2013-08-24 03:25:16 PM  
Can we stop with the idea that it is only jihadists who oppose assad? It's nonsense to anyone with even the slightest idea of what is going on, yet i keep hearing people repeating takes on it.
 
2013-08-24 03:26:13 PM  

GranPuro: Infernalist: That is some brass-balls level audacity.  They find the chem weapons in rebel tunnels near a region held by the rebels, thus throwing the blame on the rebels AND giving them more reason to bomb the living shiat out of the rebel region.

Because if you're a bunch of rebels and you've gassed your own fellow rebels in order to make the Syrian government look bad, then you're going to leave the evidence of it 'outside' your region of control in some tunnels that are near patrolling government forces.

The Syrian government sincerely thinks that the rest of the world is farking retarded.

Well you are.  Well, maybe not retarded but stupid enough not to realize that there are several rebel factions and none of them particularly like each other.  Gassing an opposing faction knowing that the idiot in the American White House is itching to get into the mess and will blame anything on the Syrian government is far more logical than the government gassing them when 1) they are winning, 2) have Russian advisors on the ground with more Russian equipment on the way, 3) have already let the UN in, and 4) have pretty much proven that the last gas attack was done by rebels (or at least proved it well enough to get everyone to back off for a while).


And for all their intellect and deviousness, they're going to leave evidence of it behind.  Oh sure, I can believe that they're smart enough to do it and frame the government, but still stupid enough to leave behind blatant evidence.

Seems legit to me.
 
2013-08-24 03:28:49 PM  

Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.


Well you can find how to make them online
/Or so I heard
 
2013-08-24 03:29:35 PM  

LewDux: brightest farkers


Talk about damning with faint praise.
 
2013-08-24 03:30:52 PM  
The BS crap about Syria being reported by the mainstream media needs to stop. They clearly have an agenda.

All Arabs are the most peaceful people on the planet and anyone who says otherwise is just a racist.
 
2013-08-24 03:31:30 PM  

ontariolightning: way south:

In this situation they've become the lesser of two evils and we really don't have to back them. We just have to make sure Assad tumbles down a flight of conveniently places stairs.

Killing Assad is the same thing as backing AQ. You're killing Assad for them. You must be way south in Florida because your thinking skills suck.




Who said we have to kill him?
We level the playing field as a punishment for him using banned weapons against civilians. His people are more than ready to decide his fate. As a bonus, We let everyone in the region know that WMDs are not toys and their use won't be overlooked.
With a dozen nations near the boiling point over there, its an important message to send before this sort of thing repeats itself yet again.

/and for the record, I live much farther south than Florida.
 
2013-08-24 03:31:57 PM  

Infernalist: We're not getting involved.


No we aren't getting involved.
The US federal government is already involved and may get more involved.
We won't be. We'll just pay the bill.
 
2013-08-24 03:35:15 PM  
The Ba'th Party has been in power since 1963. During all of that time Syria has been placed under a state of emergency, effectively destroying any notion of freedom. The uprising is the result of this.
 
2013-08-24 03:35:41 PM  

leadmetal: Infernalist: We're not getting involved.

No we aren't getting involved.
The US federal government is already involved and may get more involved.
We won't be. We'll just pay the bill.


Okay?  Who cares as long as we don't get stuck in a quagmire like Syria?

Sure, throw money at people over there if that means we don't get our military involved.  I'm very okay with that.  It's just 'money' and compared to what else we could lose over there, 'money' is the least valuable thing.
 
2013-08-24 03:36:53 PM  
way south:
, its an important message to send before this sort of thing repeats itself yet again.

The only message you'd be sending is "get your hands on chemical agents, release it, blame the government, and NATO will come running to help you.
 
2013-08-24 03:37:03 PM  

Ambivalence: Where the hell would rebels even get chemical weapons?  It's not like you can order them from Amazon (you can't, right?).

That's not suspicious at ALL.


No, but you used to could order your very own tank that looks like a dalek but named after Kim Kardashian's ass.
 
2013-08-24 03:39:22 PM  

way south: I can't believe I'm going to say this but: for everything Al Queda is and has done, they aren't big on chemical weapons and don't possess an army of tanks or jets to cause mayhem with.
In this situation they've become the lesser of two evils and we really don't have to back them. We just have to make sure Assad tumbles down a flight of conveniently places stairs.


Okay, let us see what would happen if the West went and put their weight behind your "lesser" of two evils.

We would help oust Asad, who is relatively moderate, and thus make room for Al Queda to take control. Or at least destabilise things enough that they will get regions under their control. Individual liberties, as much as there are, will go down the drain. Women will lose even the vestiges of rights they have because Al Queda isn't big on those. Locals will either be bullied in helping/supporting Al Queda or be hunted down.

Just how is Al Queda the lesser evil? Because they didn't use a chemical weapon? That is a very simplistic way of looking at things and will hurt the population at large far more than a few gas canisters. Just let them figure their own shiat out and steer away from this clusterfark. There is no good ending and if "we" are getting blamed either way ("You could have helped!" vs "You were the ones who ousted Assad, things were better then!"), then it is better to be blamed after not losing resources and lives of our own.
 
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