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(Ars Technica)   Should Elder Scrolls Online be based on a subscription model, or an in-game cash shop? Why not both?   (arstechnica.com) divider line 106
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2610 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Aug 2013 at 2:34 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-23 02:35:17 PM
IMO, the best way to placate those wary of a subscription would be to make the game free, but the subscription starts immediately. This whole "Well you buy the game but get 1 month free!" really just means you're paying $60 for the first month. And if you can't keep a gamer's interest for at least 4 months, you don't deserve to have the full $60.

Of course that won't happen as they want as much money as possible from Day 1 (and from a business perspective, who doesn't?).
 
2013-08-23 02:39:49 PM
"There won't be anything like bonus points, but we'll have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that," Firor said in an interview with German site ESOHub. "But it's not part of the core game. Anything in the core game is included in the subscription."

Sounds fine to me. It almost seems like a no-brainer for them to add something like this.
 
2013-08-23 02:43:09 PM

HotWingConspiracy: "There won't be anything like bonus points, but we'll have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that," Firor said in an interview with German site ESOHub. "But it's not part of the core game. Anything in the core game is included in the subscription."

Sounds fine to me. It almost seems like a no-brainer for them to add something like this.


Considering how successful WoW's micro-transactions have been, they'd be stupid not to.
 
2013-08-23 02:44:30 PM

HotWingConspiracy: "There won't be anything like bonus points, but we'll have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that," Firor said in an interview with German site ESOHub. "But it's not part of the core game. Anything in the core game is included in the subscription."

Sounds fine to me. It almost seems like a no-brainer for them to add something like this.


Yeah this is pretty standard practice for subscription MMOs. Name changes, server transfers, etc., have always cost money on top of the subscription, mostly to keep notorious trolls, farkwads, and scum gold farmers from abusing them. It's not news, it's an attempt at manufacturing outrage.
 
2013-08-23 02:45:21 PM
Rift has a Sub and FTP model. There is a cash system to buy perks and gems used for gear/boosts etc. When you buy the gems you gain store xp and when you hit the next lvl you get some bonus items. Those that pay the sub get more xp and gold per kill, they also acquire the bonuses faster.
 
2013-08-23 02:47:48 PM
I'm fine with both sub and shop.  Still not interested in Elder Scrolls.
 
2013-08-23 02:48:01 PM
Fus Roh DUMB!
 
2013-08-23 02:48:05 PM
I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.
 
2013-08-23 02:49:04 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: I'm fine with both sub and shop.  Still not interested in Elder Scrolls.


I'm not interested in it either. I just want it to do well to give Blizzard a swift kick to the nuts to maybe make them stop turning out so much shiat lately.
 
2013-08-23 02:50:13 PM
It should be a single player game and not an MMO...

You know, like SW:TOR should have been

/been playing since Daggerfall
//not remotely interested in TES: Online
///yeah, I'm old and bitter
 
2013-08-23 02:51:25 PM
Keep piling on the charges, really, go ahead. My expectations only rise though, and at $60 to buy and $15 a month, they're already extraordinarily high.
 
2013-08-23 02:54:32 PM

Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.


If they would make an adult mmo I might play.
 
2013-08-23 02:56:25 PM

Burr: It should be a single player game and not an MMO...

You know, like SW:TOR should have been

/been playing since Daggerfall
//not remotely interested in TES: Online
///yeah, I'm old and bitter


I sort of feel the same way.  Sort of.  TES has always sort of had its own gameplay genre, and if they stuck to their "roots" in that sense, I think it could make an amazing MMO... but it sounds like they're just making World of Elder Scrolls, which I've no interest in playing.
 
2013-08-23 02:57:04 PM

neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.


What would make it adult?
 
2013-08-23 02:59:17 PM
I'm surprised anyone is still pursuing a massively expensive to develop subscription MMO after the disaster that was SWTOR.
 
2013-08-23 03:02:09 PM
Still not paying money for another WoW clone.  If I want to pay $15 a month to grind to max level, grind max level gear and then do the tank/healer/dps raid dance for 12 months before a new level cap is released and I get to do it all over again, I'll play WoW.  They didn't do it first, but they perfected it and anything else is just a reskinning.

What I would pay for is an open world MMO with no level caps, no end-game and no farking fetch quests.  "Go fetch me five turnips and then go kill the troll at the end of the bandit cave" is the laziest game development strategy ever.  The game would be kept fresh with ongoing storylines and events created by the developers.  If I am paying $15 a month to play the game, they can afford to keep some talented storytellers and programmers on staff to create the gameworld alive.
 
2013-08-23 03:04:18 PM

lousyskater: neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.

What would make it adult?


Bills, in-laws (certain members of your family as well) you can;t stand having to be dealt with on a nearly daily basis and posting things on the in-game internet while you should be working at your in-game job.
 
2013-08-23 03:05:45 PM

Burr: It should be a single player game and not an MMO...

You know, like SW:TOR should have been

/been playing since Daggerfall
//not remotely interested in TES: Online
///yeah, I'm old and bitter


I guess I should explain my reasoning here.

I play games to "immerse myself" in a story.  Like, the Warcraft series.  Granted, the first two were slightly lacking in plot compared to the third one, but still.  So, I started playing WoW because one of my friends was playing it and thought it would be neat.  Sure, the MMO fleshed out the story/world immensely, but not without some drawbacks.  The main one being that to get to some of the elements, it required me to invest way too much time into it, and have to deal with other people.  If I am reading a book, I don't want to have to grind through 50 pages a night for a month so I can have enough reading skill to read the end of it, and be in a book club of twenty other people to understand it.

But, that is my play style I guess.  I play games an interactive book.  I tried the MMO, but that just didn't work for me.  And what sucks is when a company takes a universe that I could easily immerse myself into before, and makes it difficult to continue on with it because of "OMG MONEY", then I guess I can do nothing more then find something else to do and leave the story unfinished.

/too much of an introvert for MMO's I guess
//Friday afternoon rant after a very, very long week.
 
2013-08-23 03:06:25 PM
You lost me at "subscription model".  Give me a pay-for-play option or go away.
 
2013-08-23 03:07:15 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: lousyskater: neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.

What would make it adult?

Bills, in-laws (certain members of your family as well) you can;t stand having to be dealt with on a nearly daily basis and posting things on the in-game internet while you should be working at your in-game job.


assets.amuniversal.com
 
2013-08-23 03:09:44 PM
I would much rather have the Redguard expansion to Skyrim that was rumored for awhile. Bethesda isn't even doing this, are they? I thought they contracted it out to someone.
 
2013-08-23 03:10:11 PM
It's not "a part of the core game". I fell off of chair and hit my knee I laughed so hard. Well, of course not, not this exact specific second but I'll take bets that within two years it does.

All this goes to show is that they have learned something from the LOTRO and Rift debacles. If you move from subscription and go FTP then you will get lots of bad press. By putting in the cash shop to begin with there is no news story because you can move from the subscription model to the FTP model incrementally. I'll give them that, it's smart. But it is get another reason why intelligent gamers would never invest their precious time in the title. The might as well scream to the skies, "WE ARE SELLING YOU OUT IN THE FUTURE!!"
 
2013-08-23 03:11:18 PM
I don't mind having a shop for buying non-boost "extras" like appearance stuff on top of a sub, but after watching Arenanet beat the everloving shiat out of Guild Wars 2 by crafting the content to for-pay bonuses in their desperate attempt to sell their stupid gem store crap I'm extremely skeptical anymore about any cash-shop type system.

Build a good game. Charge a sub. Keep it up to date. I'll be there even if you layer on some extra stuff AFTER you make sure your game is quality.

Try and build a game primarily focused on milking me for more money after the initial purchase? GFY. I'll just keep playing through my Steam library.
 
2013-08-23 03:11:36 PM
I'm actually just surprised they aren't going with the pay-for-play model because it seems like it works so often.  LOTRO was dead before it went to that model and now it's chugging along.  Guild Wars 1 and 2 made/make a ton of cash off of nothing but microtransactions.

I guess the bottom line is they'll require a subscription with ESO for the simple fact they can get away with it.  Then after they've squeezed out as much money from that model they'll move to pay-for-play.
 
2013-08-23 03:12:03 PM
Name changes and sever transfers are fine. They don't really give you anything, they just change character details that you could have chosen differently at character creation. There's nothing inherently wrong with selling cosmetic items either. However, they are considered content, and Bethesda just said that "you pay once per month after the first 30 days and the entire game is available to you." That makes Bethesda's earlier comment a barefaced lie.

I wouldn't have bought the game anyway, as I generally avoid subscription fees, but I absolutely hate when companies lie to me.
 
2013-08-23 03:12:15 PM

China White Tea: Burr: It should be a single player game and not an MMO...

You know, like SW:TOR should have been

/been playing since Daggerfall
//not remotely interested in TES: Online
///yeah, I'm old and bitter

I sort of feel the same way.  Sort of.  TES has always sort of had its own gameplay genre, and if they stuck to their "roots" in that sense, I think it could make an amazing MMO... but it sounds like they're just making World of Elder Scrolls, which I've no interest in playing.


I've been playing since Daggerfall, as well. As buggy as that game was, 17 year old me couldn't get enough of it. The size of the world, the atmosphere, the character creation - I probably couldn't play it today without chucking my monitor through a window, but back then it was great.

I eventually bought Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, and the majority of the expansions, mostly without regret. TES: Online will, unfortunately, be the first one I skip. I haven't seen evidence to convince me that this new chapter is anything more than a WOW clone and money grab. Would have loved to see an Elsweyr...
 
2013-08-23 03:13:03 PM
With Guild Wars 2, you pay up front, and that's it. There are optional microtransactions for cosmetic stuff for your characters after that, but they don't affect gameplay.
 
2013-08-23 03:13:11 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: I would much rather have the Redguard expansion to Skyrim that was rumored for awhile. Bethesda isn't even doing this, are they? I thought they contracted it out to someone.


I really wanted to exterminate the Thalmor. I was sure that would be a DLC or something.

Ohh well, I guess that'll be the storyline of the next TES that's not an MMO.

/Killed every Thalmor I ever met.
 
2013-08-23 03:14:05 PM

lousyskater: neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.

What would make it adult?


If you're just looking for boobies, Age of Conan lets female character run around completely topless.  Unfortunately that was pretty much all it has going for it, especially since the F2P version severely restricts your character options.
 
2013-08-23 03:14:39 PM

Uakronkid: With Guild Wars 2, you pay up front, and that's it. There are optional microtransactions for cosmetic stuff for your characters after that, but they don't affect gameplay.


Or at least that's how it was in the beginning.
 
2013-08-23 03:16:37 PM

scottydoesntknow: Copperbelly watersnake: I would much rather have the Redguard expansion to Skyrim that was rumored for awhile. Bethesda isn't even doing this, are they? I thought they contracted it out to someone.

I really wanted to exterminate the Thalmor. I was sure that would be a DLC or something.

Ohh well, I guess that'll be the storyline of the next TES that's not an MMO.

/Killed every Thalmor I ever met.


I believe that this game is set thousands of years in the past. It's a different Thalmor that the one in Skyrim is a kind of revival of.

I also don't like how factions are tied to races.
 
2013-08-23 03:16:41 PM

Uakronkid: but they don't affect gameplay


Karma boosts, XP boosts, gold boosts, crafting boosts, salvage boosts, glory boosts, magic find boosts, speed boosts, the unbreakable harvesting items, dye packs, and mystic forge stones would all like a word with you....

Not to mention buying gold directly.
 
2013-08-23 03:20:54 PM

scottydoesntknow: Copperbelly watersnake: I would much rather have the Redguard expansion to Skyrim that was rumored for awhile. Bethesda isn't even doing this, are they? I thought they contracted it out to someone.

I really wanted to exterminate the Thalmor. I was sure that would be a DLC or something.

Ohh well, I guess that'll be the storyline of the next TES that's not an MMO.

/Killed every Thalmor I ever met.


The only way they can really top the last one is to have VI be you becoming emperor. I guess that is assuming the next one doesn't get rid of single player.
 
2013-08-23 03:26:28 PM

skozlaw: Uakronkid: but they don't affect gameplay

Karma boosts, XP boosts, gold boosts, crafting boosts, salvage boosts, glory boosts, magic find boosts, speed boosts, the unbreakable harvesting items, dye packs, and mystic forge stones would all like a word with you....

Not to mention buying gold directly.


But everyone can do that, and you get most of that stuff from the game as well.  I got so many xp boosters and crap like that I haven't used.  None of that is going to give you any advantage over someone in the game though.  And did you really include dye packs?  Is someones color going to make them better than you or something?  And just cause someone has a pick or something that doesn't run out, doesn't give them an advantage.  They just won't have to drop a few in game pennies to get a new one every so often.
 
2013-08-23 03:27:00 PM
lparchive.org

Subscription what?
No, I'm busy. Go away.
 
2013-08-23 03:27:13 PM

scottydoesntknow: /Killed every Thalmor I ever met.


i killed all of them and then refused to release the prisoner. both sides are bad so vote falmer!

Copperbelly watersnake: I would much rather have the Redguard expansion to Skyrim that was rumored for awhile. Bethesda isn't even doing this, are they? I thought they contracted it out to someone.


it seems to be a studio that bethesda set up specifically to do this under a different name. bethesda is the listed publisher though.
 
2013-08-23 03:27:59 PM
ITT: Nerdrage.
 
2013-08-23 03:31:34 PM
What would be awesome is to have a 3 month long ladder setup that plays out the civil war in hardcore mode.  The top 10 baddest at the end of the ladder get to start the next ladder at level 3 and have some special doohickey as a reward.
 
2013-08-23 03:34:40 PM

The Green Manalishi: China White Tea: Burr: It should be a single player game and not an MMO...

You know, like SW:TOR should have been

/been playing since Daggerfall
//not remotely interested in TES: Online
///yeah, I'm old and bitter

I sort of feel the same way.  Sort of.  TES has always sort of had its own gameplay genre, and if they stuck to their "roots" in that sense, I think it could make an amazing MMO... but it sounds like they're just making World of Elder Scrolls, which I've no interest in playing.

I've been playing since Daggerfall, as well. As buggy as that game was, 17 year old me couldn't get enough of it. The size of the world, the atmosphere, the character creation - I probably couldn't play it today without chucking my monitor through a window, but back then it was great.

I eventually bought Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, and the majority of the expansions, mostly without regret. TES: Online will, unfortunately, be the first one I skip. I haven't seen evidence to convince me that this new chapter is anything more than a WOW clone and money grab. Would have loved to see an Elsweyr...


Yeah, exactly this.  I was really excited when I first heard about TES Online, naively believing that someone would finally make a good, high-budget fantasy sandbox MMO.  Was extremely disappointed when I learned it was going to be more of the same themepark crap.
 
2013-08-23 03:39:50 PM
I hope its adsupported with product placements as well.
 
2013-08-23 03:40:26 PM

skozlaw: Uakronkid: but they don't affect gameplay

Karma boosts, XP boosts, gold boosts, crafting boosts, salvage boosts, glory boosts, magic find boosts, speed boosts, the unbreakable harvesting items, dye packs, and mystic forge stones would all like a word with you....

Not to mention buying gold directly.


I wouldn't really say any of those affect game play since none make your character any stronger relative to any other character. Make leveling faster, but selling colors (dyes) has no implication on game play. That and you can get any of those items without spending any money at all, convert gold to gems.

Of course none of this changes the fact that the game itself got really stale really fast and was mediocre at best with marginal pvp or replayability.

I had high hopes for ESO, but every press release makes me want the game less and less to the point where I don't want it at all and now want to see it fail.
 
2013-08-23 03:42:21 PM

Burr: Jim from Saint Paul: lousyskater: neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.

What would make it adult?

Bills, in-laws (certain members of your family as well) you can;t stand having to be dealt with on a nearly daily basis and posting things on the in-game internet while you should be working at your in-game job.

[assets.amuniversal.com image 600x193]


*thumbsup.jpeg*
 
2013-08-23 03:43:11 PM

lousyskater: neversubmit: Soup4Bonnie: I find zero fun in any of the MMOs.  I want to like them, I just don't.  So, good luck Elder Scrolls.  Maybe you'll be different.

If they would make an adult mmo I might play.

What would make it adult?


Lusty Argonian Maids and Khajit on the skooma wanting to be your very bestest friend.
 
2013-08-23 03:44:41 PM
The game has been in development for like 6 or 7 years. They're going to get as much cash from early adopter as possible and will probably be F2P within a year.

I've played all the Elder Scrolls games and I'm staying far away form this one.
 
2013-08-23 03:44:45 PM

NicktheSmoker: None of that is going to give you any advantage over someone in the game though


How much gold do you have on your account and how many ectos do you have just sitting around doing nothing?
 
2013-08-23 03:47:27 PM

Shrugging Atlas: I'm surprised anyone is still pursuing a massively expensive to develop subscription MMO after the disaster that was SWTOR.


SWTOR just wasn't fun.
 
2013-08-23 03:53:52 PM
Death to cash $hops.

Please, EQNext, pleeaaaase don't have a cash shop.
 
2013-08-23 03:58:18 PM
I happily payed the monthly fee for WoW for years until a realized the my 'Mature Elite Raiding Guild' was only two of those words. IMO the subscription fee model makes all players paying customers and none are more special than others.  With F2P games it seems as if even with the best intentions the developer ends up creating a pay to win system or close enough to it as makes not difference.  Really though why shouldn't they? After all those players are their customers and the non-paying ones are just overhead costs.

I know that I could just impose a monthly fee on myself by adding a specific amount to my in game account every month and enjoy the game but it just sours me on the whole game usually.  Besides which, these days when I play games I usually just want to blow shiat up for a few minutes between doing other more important things anyway so it's not like I matter to these companies anymore anyway.
 
2013-08-23 04:05:05 PM

netgamer7k: Death to cash $hops.

Please, EQNext, pleeaaaase don't have a cash shop.


Seeing as it's free to play, I'm going to guess.....
 
2013-08-23 04:05:50 PM

netgamer7k: Death to cash $hops.

Please, EQNext, pleeaaaase don't have a cash shop.


It is supposed to be F2P how do you expect them to make money without a cash shop?
 
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