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(Opposing Views)   Doctors give new meaning to the expression "shiat for brains." Shockingly, untested procedure of implanting fecal bacteria in cancer patients' gray matter only makes things worse   (opposingviews.com) divider line 58
    More: Fail, Department of Public Health, procedures, bacteria, standard treatment, physicians  
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4897 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Aug 2013 at 12:47 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-23 12:16:31 PM
Still not as crazy as putting a pt's head inside a nuclear reactor the way the Chinese tried back in the 70's to treat brain cancer
 
2013-08-23 12:21:36 PM
*scans headline*

memeorama.com
 
2013-08-23 12:33:35 PM
www.hrwiki.org
Now spell "carp for brains"
 
2013-08-23 12:56:38 PM
Trying to create a supervillain?

obdpictures1.wikispaces.com
 
2013-08-23 01:37:58 PM
www.mst3kinfo.com

"I know this might sound crazy, but I think we should sh*t in this man's head."
 
2013-08-23 01:51:30 PM

Sybarite: Trying to create a supervillain?

[obdpictures1.wikispaces.com image 708x326]


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-08-23 01:51:45 PM
Nanny, nanny boo boo.
Stick your head in doo doo.
 
2013-08-23 01:51:51 PM
At least it wasn't oral cancer.
 
2013-08-23 01:52:49 PM
That tiny piece of corn killed him.
 
2013-08-23 01:54:50 PM
So, now they have cancer AND an infection in their brain? It's probably a good thing, for the doctor(s) involved, that they have an agressive brain cancer. The patient will never live long enough to sue.
 
2013-08-23 01:55:02 PM
Shi-it, I've only taken a year of A&P and have a minimal understanding of the blood-brain barrier, and I know this isn't a good idea. :/
 
2013-08-23 01:55:46 PM
Traditionally they would only rip off the head and shiat down the neck.
 
2013-08-23 01:56:42 PM
FTA: They had not responded to conventional treatments, including removal of the tumors

Invisible tumors are the worst.
 
2013-08-23 01:56:49 PM
I hear the procedure surprisingly common among politicians ...
 
2013-08-23 01:57:25 PM
Hey subby-moron, according to the articled they tested it on three patients.
 
2013-08-23 01:57:34 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Sybarite: Trying to create a supervillain?

[obdpictures1.wikispaces.com image 708x326]

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 661x668]


"Wait a minute. Xortho gets a gun, and I get a farking mace? I call BS. Clearly His Lord and Mighty Blubberbutt is trying to get me killed."
 
2013-08-23 02:00:16 PM
Up in the north we have a phrase "shiat for brains" as in "You have shiat for brains."

Down in the south we have an even more unkind, seemingly opposite saying.   "You don't have shiat for brains."
 
2013-08-23 02:00:17 PM
Welp, you never known until you try, amirite?
 
2013-08-23 02:02:02 PM

uncleacid: That tiny piece of corn killed him.


hahaha! cough! COUGH!! hahaha!!
 
2013-08-23 02:02:19 PM
End stage brain cancer. They had nothing to lose. Might have been a better way to go, frankly.
 
2013-08-23 02:03:12 PM
I can see their thinking: You know, in the old days people practically swam in shiat 24/7.  They ate, drank it, slogged through it the streets, trod it into their homes and slept with it.  Then we come along and start our crazy systematic isolation and treatment waste and BOOM - brain cancer.  People aren't exposed to enough shiat.  We need to put the shiat back in these people's heads.  That's how we evolved. That's how we were meant to live!
 
2013-08-23 02:07:23 PM
Ricky, you just opened up Pandora's shiat-box
 
2013-08-23 02:07:50 PM
YOu know how int he movies somebody always says "that's so crazy it just might work!"

MIGHT is the operative word there, and if it doesn't, well, then it was just farking crazy
 
2013-08-23 02:10:36 PM

FarkinHostile: End stage brain cancer. They had nothing to lose.


"Look, this guy's dying anyway. Open up his brain box and drop your pants."
 
2013-08-23 02:11:11 PM
What a shiatty idea.
 
2013-08-23 02:13:49 PM

sigdiamond2000: FarkinHostile: End stage brain cancer. They had nothing to lose.

"Look, this guy's dying anyway. Open up his brain box and drop your pants."


I had a first date go something like that.
 
2013-08-23 02:13:57 PM

Evil Mackerel: Traditionally they would only rip off the head and shiat down the neck.


Early practitioner:
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-23 02:14:01 PM
You'd be surprised at how many modern accepted procedures had their roots in outright quackery.

A great example is the "blood patch" used to repair leaks that sometimes occur when people have diagnostic spinal taps done.  In many cases, slow-healing punctures can allow leakage of cerebro-spinal fluid, causing the brain to sit directly on the brain pain in the skull instead of float in a cushion of CSF.

Some genius said "OK, let's inject some of the patient's own blood up in the spinal column!  The platelettes, not found in CSF, will clot and allow the puncture hole to heal!  It's farking brilliant!!!"

I imagine the first doctor to think of it suggested to his colleagues, who probably responded "well, it's not as interesting as injecting poop into the patients' brains, but heck let's try it!"
 
2013-08-23 02:14:04 PM
As opposed to having a family member take a crap in a blender, and then feeding the ensuing slurry through a feeding tube to treat C. Diff?
 
2013-08-23 02:14:38 PM

Magorn: YOu know how int he movies somebody always says "that's so crazy it just might work!"

MIGHT is the operative word there, and if it doesn't, well, then it was just farking crazy


No, if your plan can be summed up as 'that's so crazy it just might work', it's not going to work, because life isn't written by a scriptwriter who can insert a deus ex machina because they don't understand the highly complex subject they're discussing.
 
2013-08-23 02:15:31 PM

hardinparamedic: As opposed to having a family member take a crap in a blender, and then feeding the ensuing slurry through a feeding tube to treat C. Diff?


How do you know what's in my porn collection?
 
2013-08-23 02:19:37 PM
Didn't they try this on Einstein in order to prevent him from developing the bomb?

/mildly obscure
 
2013-08-23 02:20:07 PM
I wish it would've worked. The world would be a better place with less cancer and more shiatheads.
 
2013-08-23 02:21:04 PM

hardinparamedic: As opposed to having a family member take a crap in a blender, and then feeding the ensuing slurry through a feeding tube to treat C. Diff?


I'll take the Vancomycin, even if I have to pawn all my guns. I went through that earlier this year.
 
2013-08-23 02:21:11 PM

Queensowntalia: "Wait a minute. Xortho gets a gun, and I get a farking mace? I call BS. Clearly His Lord and Mighty Blubberbutt is trying to get me killed.


It means he's even more important.  We're talking about an universe that requires officers to turn in their helmets when they're promoted.
 
2013-08-23 02:23:07 PM

bagumpity: You'd be surprised at how many modern accepted procedures had their roots in outright quackery.

A great example is the "blood patch" used to repair leaks that sometimes occur when people have diagnostic spinal taps done.  In many cases, slow-healing punctures can allow leakage of cerebro-spinal fluid, causing the brain to sit directly on the brain pain in the skull instead of float in a cushion of CSF.

Some genius said "OK, let's inject some of the patient's own blood up in the spinal column!  The platelettes, not found in CSF, will clot and allow the puncture hole to heal!  It's farking brilliant!!!"

I imagine the first doctor to think of it suggested to his colleagues, who probably responded "well, it's not as interesting as injecting poop into the patients' brains, but heck let's try it!"


Yes but when they offered to do a blood patch on me (I've had two successful blood patches, and many more than that in spinal taps) even though I was in farking agony, I asked questions about the procedure.

The big problem with this isn't that they tried something new, or something weird. It's that when asked by the farking medical board, the hospital involved couldn't even identify what benefit they had HOPED for with the patients. There was literally no expected benefit. There was no plan in place for dealing with the various infections.

This wasn't science doing careful medical experimentation. This was truly quackery.

And what pisses me off about it is how farking difficult it can be to get someone in on trials that actually DO show a demonstrated benefit to humans, and someone is running around literally doing this shiat.

And while it's true that there was no hope for the patients, they probably agreed to participate in the hopes that if they themselves didn't benefit, perhaps their sacrifice might make a difference to someone else. Yet what they go was utterly farking useless, and they died. Whatever little time they had left was taken from them. For nothing.

I sincerely hope the people involved get revoked. It won't happen, but I wish it would.
 
2013-08-23 02:25:05 PM
Those pooer people
 
2013-08-23 02:28:35 PM

bojon: hardinparamedic: As opposed to having a family member take a crap in a blender, and then feeding the ensuing slurry through a feeding tube to treat C. Diff?

I'll take the Vancomycin, even if I have to pawn all my guns. I went through that earlier this year.


Had Dr. Bruzynski at Vanderbilt lecure our class on that this week. He told us that they used to literally feed it to them before they put NGs down.
 
2013-08-23 02:30:16 PM
What is this, the farking 1200's?
 
2013-08-23 02:30:52 PM
Ok, so the experiment was a failure. To be honest, though, and not to seem cold, people with terminal conditions who have little to no chance of living more than a few days seem like ideal candidates for human medicine experiments. They lost one or two days off the end of their lives, but if the procedure had miraculously worked, they stood to gain much more.
 
2013-08-23 02:38:33 PM
Kind of amazed they got this past their institutional review board (IRB)...
 
2013-08-23 02:39:18 PM

hardinparamedic: As opposed to having a family member take a crap in a blender, and then feeding the ensuing slurry through a feeding tube to treat C. Diff?


Well, using an infection to kill cancer tumors in the brain is quite different than attempting to restore healthy intestinal flora to challenge C Diffs "monopoly".

Just sayin'.
 
2013-08-23 02:42:45 PM
FTFA: The three patients all had end stage glioblastoma multiforme, which is a fast growing type of brain tumor. They had not responded to conventional treatments, including removal of the tumors, so doctors suggested the new, untested treatment, which involved placing bacteria from the bowels in the patients' brains. The idea was to create infections that would kill the remaining tumor cells.

Sadly, according to the state's report, the fecal bacteria created infections, but not with the intended results. The patients went into seizures and developed symptoms of septic infection, or bacteria in the blood. The first patient died soon after the treatment and experienced several other bacterial infections and never regained breathing or feeding functions.

The third patient also died after displaying severe symptoms of blood infection.


Why do I have a feeling that the doctor or doctors who thought this was a good idea had watched too many episodes of "House", just knew it would work, and couldn't wait to be medical legend(s); never considered the worse case scenerios.
 
2013-08-23 02:43:20 PM

ohdoublereally: Hey subby-moron, according to the articled they tested it on three patients.


I take it you were the first?
 
2013-08-23 02:58:42 PM
... and this is why I am never going to a doctor again.
 
2013-08-23 03:13:35 PM
This wasn't an experiment. It could be mercy killings. Patients probably requested it. Since it's illegal, the docs couldn't OD them on something, too traceable. But an infection they couldn't fight off that would take them out relatively quickly compared to forgoing food and fluids? Call it an experimental treatment, and done.

Notice that 2 patients got antibiotics and 1 didn't. The one that survived was probably a control, so it could be called an experiment. In other words, did not get the bacteria.
 
2013-08-23 03:32:13 PM

PainfulItching: This wasn't an experiment. It could be mercy killings. Patients probably requested it. Since it's illegal, the docs couldn't OD them on something, too traceable.


Illegal, maybe. But, once enrolled and DNR'd, most hospices will give out a big bottle of oral morphine, don't ask how much you've used, and no post-mortem medical exam.  Sounds a lot better to me than death by massive cerebral infection.
 
2013-08-23 03:35:14 PM

Tommy Moo: They lost one or two days off the end of their lives, but if the procedure had miraculously worked, they stood to gain much more.


You'd be right if anyone had any reason to believe it might work.
 
2013-08-23 03:53:09 PM

Lawnchair: PainfulItching: This wasn't an experiment. It could be mercy killings. Patients probably requested it. Since it's illegal, the docs couldn't OD them on something, too traceable.

Illegal, maybe. But, once enrolled and DNR'd, most hospices will give out a big bottle of oral morphine, don't ask how much you've used, and no post-mortem medical exam.  Sounds a lot better to me than death by massive cerebral infection.


Not in my experience with 3 different hospices. 1 of them gave 3 days at a time, the other 2 were well controlled with daily amounts only. And TFA didn't say whether the patient was inpatient or at home. If they were inpatient, and could not be sent home for whatever reason, no nurse would risk a license or jail time on overmedicating. Even with Dr's orders under these circumstances.

And even if they were inpatient, I would think they were getting morphine. Although, some of the doctors I've met would have them on tylenol.
 
2013-08-23 03:55:55 PM
Poop's going in.
 
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