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(Al Jazeera)   Russia tells Syria to allow UN chemical weapons investigation, tells United States 'Have fun in your next quagmire'   (america.aljazeera.com ) divider line 105
    More: Followup, United States, chemical warfares, chemical weapons, investigation  
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3869 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Aug 2013 at 12:32 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-23 02:10:00 PM  

gfid: iheartscotch: DROxINxTHExWIND: What difference does it make if i kill 1,000 people with hammers versus killing them with hammers that have pesticide on them?

Well; in a legit armed conflict between nations; the hammer by itself will probably get you a farking metal. The hammer with pesticides on it will, probably, get you a trial before The Hague.

The thing is most of us - civilized countries, that is - decided chemical weapons were off limits.  It really seems like there are chem weapons being used in Syria and the only question is who is using them. My money is on Assad.

Both sides are bad, so evacuate the Kurds and nuke the whole country from orbit.


Civilized countries? Which countries would those be, exactly?

The US goes all pearl-clutchy over a little boob. The UK goes insane over a little crotchfruit; who is more likely to be related to mailman than the Queen. The French are snooty as hell and then go straight to collude. Spain, Italy and Greece, all birthplaces of great nations, are pretty much third world countries.

The only country that is close to "civilized" is Germany; but, Germany is full of Germans.
 
2013-08-23 02:10:17 PM  

tinyarena: This must be the pants-shiatting thread.
I guess nobody noticed this is an about-face for Putin
From "hands off"
To "we're backing the wrong side"



Actually Russia has expressed serious doubts that AssadCo would have committed such an attack, and expressed suspicions that it may have been carried out by "opposition forces" or a third-party in a deliberate attempt to frame AssadCo:

Syria chemical weapons use reports are pre-planned provocation - Russian Foreign Ministry

QUOTE:

nformation that Syrian authorities used chemical weapons resembles a provocation planned in advanced, says Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich.


"The fact that agenda-driven regional mass media have begun an aggressive attack at once, as if on command, laying all responsibility on the government, draws attention," the ministry quoted Lukashevich as saying in a statement on Wednesday.

"It is apparently no coincidence that information like this regarding the authorities using chemical weapons has been thrown in before, including in the past days, citing some opposition sources, however it was not confirmed later," Lukashevich said.

"All this can only lead us to think that we are dealing again with a provocation planned in advance," Lukashevich said.

"The fact that the criminal action near Damascus was carried out just when the mission of UN experts to investigate the statements on possible chemical weapons use there has successfully begun its work in Syria points to this," the statement said.


END QUOTE


Given the predictable international reaction, who would benefit more from such an attack? Assad, or those that would try to frame him?

/Smells like rats
 
2013-08-23 02:14:19 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Assad is bravely fighting zombies, cannibals and vampires
 
2013-08-23 02:15:35 PM  

Felgraf: ... So what would you like, Submitter? Should the US's reaction to chemical weapons being used on children and civilians be "That sucks. Not our problem."?

I suspect you'd be blasting the US for being callous and not caring about the lives of anyone but their ow in that case.


Lets look at it from the other side of that same razor's edge:

What would you have us do?

We can't just go rushing in with our forces and force both sides to simmer down and play nice, that's not how civil wars with geurilla warfare work. We also literally cannot afford another multi trillion dollar campaign to "nationbuild", which won't work anyways as any set of rules, laws or regulations that one side doesn't agree with will end with violence and atrocities since that is what they're using now to get what they want.

In the most recent nerve gas attack, it is entirely unclear who the perpetrator is. We do have a few things that can guide our understanding of the event:

1) This attack was committed primarily on civillians. Note that while that may be expected occasionally in the crossfire of guerilla combat, the ratio of civillian/combatant deaths is way too high here. Also note the lack of significant military response by Assad to followup in the area to ensure that whatever target which warranted this significant bad press was indeed neutralized.

2) The UN weapons inspectors just arrived. Assad knew this. Why then would he USE illegal weapons instead of disposing of or moving them?

3) The rebel front is known to have terroristic and extremist cells injected into it, who fight their idealistic battle under the flag of the Syrian rebels. They've been begging for more weapons, and we've been specifically stating we will not intervene apart from medical supplies and food unless chemical weapons are used. A little turmoil in Egypt and Turkey later, and suddenly we have a neighborhood doused in nerve gas.

It would be trivial for one of the extremist cells to use a single chemical weapon on a civillian target for maximum press attention and then immediately point the finger at Assad (because surely nobody else could get ahold of the chemical agents) conveniently right when the weapons inspectors arrive. Think about it: that's not an insignificant probability of the events, and until intelligence provides definite answers to the perpetrator of the event, it would be lunacy and dangerously irresponsable for us to respond with force. Why should we provide military intervention in support of the folks who likely manipulated the press response by committing these atrocities to begin with?
 
2013-08-23 02:19:18 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Well there's Assad who is fighting to maintain his dictatorship.

And then there's the rebels who want democracy and also to purge everyone who isn't a specific kind of Muslim.
 
2013-08-23 02:21:12 PM  
 
2013-08-23 02:22:10 PM  

Ned Stark: Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.

Well there's Assad who is fighting to maintain his dictatorship.

And then there's the rebels who want democracy and also to purge everyone who isn't a specific kind of Muslim.


......is it one of those "no one is right?" situations?
 
2013-08-23 02:23:32 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-23 02:24:45 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Assad, the third generation despot, want's to retain control of his country. Rebels, who are well armed by Islamist radicals, doesn't want him to. It has gotten to the point where it can best be described as a civil war and there are reports from the rebels that there are chemical weapons being used on the populace.
 
2013-08-23 02:26:08 PM  

Tatterdemalian: lewismarktwo: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: "Have fun in your next quagmire"

What can I say, we're suckers for 3rd world shiatholes with social problems.

The US: Where the police are soldiers and the soldiers are police.

And the problem is...?

Police and soldiers do the same thing, enforce their laws through violence when necessary and the threat of violence otherwise. The difference is police are trained to do this at the request of the communities they occupy, while soldiers are trained to do this against the will of the communities they occupy. This forces them to use very different tactics, police generally performing investigations to determine legal responsibility and soldiers generally doing whatever it takes to keep themselves alive while kicking the ass of anyone who makes them come over there, but if we decide to treat our police with murderous hostility and foreign countries are begging our soldiers to save them, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that each might start adopting the other's tactics.


Putting some in-depth thought as to why things are the way they are? Idiot.

Cops are pigs because they have small penises, and are authoritarians, and because they were high school football players who got C-minuses and bullied nerds, and because that pig hassled me when he pulled me over because I wasn't going to talk to that pig with respect!

Don't you know anything, bootlicker?
 
2013-08-23 02:26:18 PM  
They weren't red lines, more of pinkish-grayish lines. And they weren't lines, more like an indistinct shaded area. A suggestion if you will.
 
2013-08-23 02:26:57 PM  

Naesen: It would be trivial for one of the extremist cells to use a single chemical weapon on a civillian target for maximum press attention and then immediately point the finger at Assad (because surely nobody else could get ahold of the chemical agents) conveniently right when the weapons inspectors arrive. Think about it: that's not an insignificant probability of the events, and until intelligence provides definite answers to the perpetrator of the event, it would be lunacy and dangerously irresponsable for us to respond with force. Why should we provide military intervention in support of the folks who likely manipulated the press response by committing these atrocities to begin with?


For the lulz.
 
2013-08-23 02:27:28 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Inspired by the arab spring, the majority sunni population of syria decided it was going to overthrow the monarch that was support by a coalition of minorities (shia, christian, kurd, alawaits (other shia)). They had a protest and were severely smackdown, which pissed them off more and so they went full rebellion. Keep in mind most of them want free elections and democracy, but a vocal minority want religious rule, and a caliphate and to beat the crap out of the minorities.

/i think
//and so it goes
 
2013-08-23 02:29:18 PM  
I think we should get the Israelis to intervene in Syria. Everybody wins!
 
2013-08-23 02:31:32 PM  

Ned Stark: Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.

Well there's Assad who is fighting to maintain his dictatorship.

And then there's the rebels who want democracy and also to purge everyone who isn't a specific kind of Muslim.



And here is clear evidence that USrael has picked a side:

Report: Syrian rebel forces trained by West are moving towards Damascus

QUOTES:

"Guerrilla fighters trained by the West began moving towards Damascus in mid-August, French newspaper Le Figaro reported on Thursday.
Le Figaro reported that this is the reason behind the Assad regime's alleged chemical weapons attack in Damascus on Wednesday morning, as UN inspectors were allowed into the country to investigate allegations of WMD use.

"The rebels were trained for several months in a training camp on the Jordanian-Syrian border by CIA operatives, as well as Jordanian and Israeli commandos, the paper said.

"The first group of 300 handpicked Free Syrian Army soldiers crossed the border on August 17 into the Deraa region, and a second group was deployed on August 19, the paper reported.

END QUOTES

Gee, I wonder what kinds of weapons the CIA/Mossad might have provided these "rebels"?

Looks like .Israel would like to see Assad toppled and have the US forcefully install an "Israel Friendly" government, doesn't it?


/We shall call it "Democracy"!
 
2013-08-23 02:32:48 PM  
Never stick your troops in crazy
 
2013-08-23 02:33:01 PM  
I have a stronger opinion than most about chemical weapons.  I'm against them.  I am struggling against the desire to post photos of dead infants right now.  And I'm willing to accept a delay of a few weeks if it is needed to build some international support and figure out who we are going to back, because no matter how much of an effing savage Assad is I can guarentee that just opposing him does not make you a good person. Jumping in solo, half cocked and with no endgame plan is how we ended up with Iraq, and I'm pretty sure nobody is totally happy with how that worked out.

Yes.  In the meantime, people will die.  Which is why we, by which I mean our government, needs to get the hell on this double fast.
 
2013-08-23 02:35:26 PM  
Amos Quito:
/Smells like rats

Indeed it does.

But this also seems to be a major shift in Russia's policy:

Immediately upon receipt of relevant information, the Russian side called on the government of Syria to cooperate with the U.N. chemical experts," the Foreign Ministry statement said. "The task now for the opposition is to provide secure access to the proposed site of the incident."

The statement also said Russia is seeking "constructive progress from the opposition in regard to the early convening of an international conference on the political settlement of the Syrian crisis."


So Russia now wants the international community to help settle the "Syrian crisis?"  Something major must have turned up for them to say this.  Russia must live in the world.  If Assad did screw around with chemicals, and Russia supported him, it would be very bad for Russian international relations.  We shall see.

But again, it must be Obama's fault :)
 
2013-08-23 02:39:37 PM  

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: I think we should get the Israelis to intervene in Syria. Everybody wins!


I'm still holding out some hope that the turks might step up to the plate.
 
2013-08-23 02:39:43 PM  

Amos Quito: Gee, I wonder what kinds of weapons the CIA/Mossad might have provided these "rebels"?

Looks like .Israel would like to see Assad toppled and have the US forcefully install an "Israel Friendly" government, doesn't it?


rarerborealis.com

Okay, okay. I think Amos has this.

So Israel is funding and providing material and training to rebels supported by Al Queda and other Islamofascist groups in Syria, who are in turn backing the rebels and attempting to topple Assad to install an Israel Friendly Government backed by Al Queda and associated groups?

rarerborealis.com
 
2013-08-23 02:43:34 PM  
I don't understand the US fascination in getting involved in these overseas adventures. I haven't seen any benefit in either the Iraq or Afghanistan engagements - but I know they cost the US plenty in lives and cash. So, Saddam is gone - replaced by some other assortment of jerk-offs. Does Afghanistan ever change? Let the region deal with its own problems. It there wasn't oil under the ground, the Western powers wouldn't care. It would be considered Africa East.
 
2013-08-23 02:45:00 PM  
Russia is enjoying the popcorn.
 
2013-08-23 02:51:11 PM  
What is it with Democrats always trying to get us into wars?  I think it's the same bloodthirst and wanton disregard for life that makes them salivate over abortions.
 
2013-08-23 02:54:26 PM  
I feel like the US's condundrum can be summed up thusly:

When there were atrocites being committed in Rwanda and elsewhere, we said "Never again."

When we got bogged down for years on end in Iraq, we said "Never again."
 
2013-08-23 02:55:19 PM  

hardinparamedic: So Israel is funding and providing material and training to rebels supported by Al Queda and other Islamofascist groups in Syria, who are in turn backing the rebels and attempting to topple Assad to install an Israel Friendly Government backed by Al Queda and associated groups?


My Lebanese friend has the opinion that the Israelis prefer Assad - he's a known quantity and the status quo in regards to Syria was not a problem for them. It seems logical to me.

The "hawk" in me would suggest we land south of Beirut and wipe out Hizbollah then continue east through Syria. Objectively, most of the borders in the entire region need to be redrawn to account for ethnic and religious homogeny.

But the logical person in me knows it would be a disaster with no positive outcome for the United States. The situation there is NOT our problem and no amount of time, effort, or money, we spend will solve a millennium of religious conflict.

Lebanon is at risk of violence as the "Free Syrian Army" is retaliating against Hizbollah in Lebanon for their support of Assad. I would even go so far as to suggest the rocket attacks launched from Lebanon into Israel this week were likely by the FSA as well in an attempt to draw Israel into a conflict against Hizbollah. Which also leads to a similar thought in regards to the chemical weapons use in Damascus.

What a freaking mess.

CSB: This time last week I was in the Cairo airport on my way home from six days in Lebanon. There are Syrians all over Lebanon trying to avoid the conflict - mostly the ones with money or family. And I sure know how to pick the shiatshows to be in.
 
2013-08-23 02:55:37 PM  

netweavr: Never stick your troops in crazy


Another good one.  You guys are on a roll.
 
2013-08-23 02:58:13 PM  

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: Gee, I wonder what kinds of weapons the CIA/Mossad might have provided these "rebels"?

Looks like .Israel would like to see Assad toppled and have the US forcefully install an "Israel Friendly" government, doesn't it?

[rarerborealis.com image 320x240]

Okay, okay. I think Amos has this.

So Israel is funding and providing material and training to rebels supported by Al Queda and other Islamofascist groups in Syria, who are in turn backing the rebels and attempting to topple Assad to install an Israel Friendly Government backed by Al Queda and associated groups?

[rarerborealis.com image 500x375]



lol, exactly. It's ALWAYS the Jews with predictable 'ol Amos Quito. When I saw his Boobies I was all ready to reply to him that I was going to take a "wild shot in the dark" that he thought it was the Jews behind it... but then I kept reading and he actually beat me to the punch.

The weather is rainy and that motherfarker blames the Jews. But remember, he's not racist... somehow, magically I guess...


Moving on from one of our most predictable racists though, who honestly doesn't deserve our responses anymore, the thing that gets me about this Syria situation is that 100,000 human beings have died now in this conflict, largely because ONE GUY doesn't want to step down. One guy who already has squirreled away wealth beyond the imaginations of almost any other human being insisted on NOT stepping down gracefully to retire to enjoy the fruits of his plunder in a sunny part of France, and who has such an unquenchable thirst for power and more money that he still refuses - even if it costs 100,000 people their lives.

No, this guy just has to have more and more, no matter how many other people have to suffer and die. It seems like a single bullet could have saved a lot of peoples' lives, and could still save a lot more.
 
2013-08-23 02:59:35 PM  
Putin is playing tar-baby with Obama, masterfully
 
2013-08-23 03:02:16 PM  
Russia can nuke the rebels and we can nuke the Syrian army. Done.
 
2013-08-23 03:19:44 PM  
barry showed those meanies in Syria just what would happen if they crossed another of his red lines. He threw his super UN ambassador into the mix. By that I mean after 3 weeks on the job his ambassador needed a break, went on vacation and couldn't be bothered with an important UN meeting about Syria gassing civilians.
 
2013-08-23 03:31:43 PM  

hardinparamedic: Amos Quito: Gee, I wonder what kinds of weapons the CIA/Mossad might have provided these "rebels"?

Looks like .Israel would like to see Assad toppled and have the US forcefully install an "Israel Friendly" government, doesn't it?

[rarerborealis.com image 320x240]

Okay, okay. I think Amos has this.

So Israel is funding and providing material and training to rebels supported by Al Queda and other Islamofascist groups in Syria, who are in turn backing the rebels and attempting to topple Assad to install an Israel Friendly Government backed by Al Queda and associated groups?

[rarerborealis.com image 500x375]



It all becomes much clearer when you realize that, from the Israeli perspective, Israel only has ONE enemy: EVERYONE,

In their paranoid mindset, every other nation and people on the planet, without exception, are either active or latent enemies. And of they should find some group somewhere that is not an enemy, then by G-d, they'll do their best to make them an enemy,

Israel HATES Assad - has for decades. They want him out - gone. That's why they're actively supporting the "rebels".

BUT WAIT! Israel ALSO hates the rebels - who are anti-Zionist fundie Mooselimbs, openly affiliated with multiple terrorist groups, so why would Israel support THEM???

Because someone is going to win this conflict, and they want to be sure that it is the side that will be the easiest to infiltrate, manipulate and (with the help of Uncle Sugardaddy) control.

From this chaos, some form of "order" will arise - the only question is, who will govern the "new order"? And considering that every single nation in the area is Israel's enemy, it is in their best interests to control the outcome as much as possible. And as always, the US is being Israel's faithful biatch.

Interestingly, both the US and Israel are now actively supporting groups that we have declared to be OUTLAW TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.

/Through the looking glass indeed
 
2013-08-23 03:32:42 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Assholes started killing other assholes, so the rest of the world stopped complaining about our acting as the world's police so they could complain that we aren't acting as the world's police.

I hope that helps.
 
2013-08-23 03:36:23 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: Actually, can someone explain the situation in Syria to me? I Apologise for my ignorance, I genuinely don't understand what's going on and who stands for what. Is anyone in the right? I'm seriously asking, I don't know anything about this conflict and am looking to be educated.


Bashar al Assad is the son of Syria's original dictator. He's a member of a group called Alawites, members of which have most of the top positions in the government and military. As a newbie dictator, Bashar Assad hasn't been quite as much of a hard-ass as his dear old dad, but then the non-Alawite population of Syria got encouraged by the so-called "Arab Spring" to start protesting economic, political, and social inequalities. Assad sent in his goon squads.

After getting beaten, arrested, and generally abused for the best part of a year, the protesters started fighting back. Assad's thug teams started calling for police and military back-up. The situation rapidly devolved from political protests to actual civil war.

The rebels would be snuffed out like a fart in a whirlwind if not for overt and covert Western support. Since they are getting at least some support from the West (largely funneled through Trukey, which is rapidly growing tired of Assad's histrionics), the rebels have managed to outlast most of Assad's ready ammunition supply. The Russians and Iranians aren't too keen on losing their last military ally in the region, so they're selling Syria guns and ammo- some of which is being interdicted by anti-Syria nations in the area.

Since the US and other Western countries haven't given the Syrian opposition the same degree of assistance they gave the Libyans, the Syrian rebels have looked elsewhere for help. Specifically, a lot of Al Qaeda affiliated shooters are fighting against Assad. This causes additional political problems for the US, because we're technically still trying to exterminate anyone affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Because Assad's ammo supplies are running low, he's losing his ability to kill the rebels in boxcar lots with conventional weapons. Add in the fact that most of the rebels who are still fighting have actually learned how to do so effectively AND they're getting minimal amounts of support in the form of weapons, ammo, and training from friendly Western sources, and Assad may have become desperate enough to use chemical weapons in the fight. Chemical weapons have been released in combat areas within Syria, at least twice, with lots of attendant non-combatant casualties.

The US has said that use of chemical weapons is a "red line" which will have dire- but unspecified- consequences. Assad has been playing the "plausible deniability" card by claiming that the rebels actually used the WMDs, not the Syrian military. The rebels have responded by basically say, "No we didn't. It was you!" The UN is performing like a well-oiled bit of precision equipment designed to produce nothing much, civilians are dying, non-combatants are dying, refugees are flooding into Turkey and Iraq (seriously- how bad does shiat have to get when Iraq seems like a safe haven?), and the Russians and Chinese are basically thumbing their collective noses at the US and laughing themselves sick.

That ought to sum it up.
 
2013-08-23 03:36:53 PM  

tinyarena: I guess nobody noticed this is an about-face for Putin
From "hands off"
To "we're backing the wrong side"


I have an uncomfortable feeling that the Russian gov't just collected some compelling evidence that it wasn't Assad who set it off, but some militant group trying to make a point - and now Putin wants the inspectors to back up that claim so he can double-down on Obama's red-line gaffe. "So, it was your rebels who used chemical weapons, you must now intervene on behalf of Assad, correct?"
 
2013-08-23 03:41:41 PM  
You know what kind of call cops hate to get? Domestic squabbles. They're messy and the victim is just as likely as not to turn on you for getting involved. Rushing in there with all guns blazing, while satisfying on some visceral level, will only exacerbate things and cause even greater bloodshed.

If action must be taken it should not be done hastily nor unilaterally. Chemical weapons were used? Verify that and find out by whom. Gather the interested super powers and discuss what to do about it. Together. In the meantime if you want to help then provide safe harbor and aid to refugees fleeing the mess.
 
2013-08-23 03:45:48 PM  

mongbiohazard: lol, exactly. It's ALWAYS the Jews with predictable 'ol Amos Quito. When I saw his Boobies I was all ready to reply to him that I was going to take a "wild shot in the dark" that he thought it was the Jews behind it... but then I kept reading and he actually beat me to the punch.

The weather is rainy and that motherfarker blames the Jews. But remember, he's not racist... somehow, magically I guess...


I've seen some pathetic, fact-free snivels, mongbiohazard, but that one was truly a classic.
 
2013-08-23 03:49:38 PM  
Last time we delivered the "serious consequences" the UN threatened, farkers called it an "illegal war".
 
2013-08-23 03:54:34 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Putin is playing tar-baby with Obama, masterfully


[thatsracist.gif]
 
2013-08-23 03:55:43 PM  

Sentient: tinyarena: I guess nobody noticed this is an about-face for Putin
From "hands off"
To "we're backing the wrong side"

I have an uncomfortable feeling that the Russian gov't just collected some compelling evidence that it wasn't Assad who set it off, but some militant group trying to make a point - and now Putin wants the inspectors to back up that claim so he can double-down on Obama's red-line gaffe. "So, it was your rebels who used chemical weapons, you must now intervene on behalf of Assad, correct?"


Either way works.  If the rebels are gassing people it gives the US an out.  If it's Assad it gives Russia an out.
 
2013-08-23 03:57:41 PM  
Why dose it always have to be he US that gets stuck in these no win situations?
 
2013-08-23 04:11:07 PM  

mongbiohazard: lol, exactly. It's ALWAYS the Jews with predictable 'ol Amos Quito. When I saw his Boobies I was all ready to reply to him that I was going to take a "wild shot in the dark" that he thought it was the Jews behind it... but then I kept reading and he actually beat me to the punch.

The weather is rainy and that motherfarker blames the Jews. But remember, he's not racist... somehow, magically I guess...


Moving on from one of our most predictable racists though, who honestly doesn't deserve our responses anymore, the thing that gets me about this Syria situation is that 100,000 human beings have died now in this conflict, largely because ONE GUY doesn't want to step down. One guy who already has squirreled away wealth beyond the imaginations of almost any other human being insisted on NOT stepping down gracefully to retire to enjoy the fruits of his plunder in a sunny part of France, and who has such an unquenchable thirst for power and more money that he still refuses - even if it costs 100,000 people their lives.


You are so full of Fail.  Leaving out Isreal's involvement in this conflict is ignorant.  They are actively arming mercenaries to forment terror and kill civilians to depose a ruler of a sovriegn nation instead of using democratic or humane means.  Assad wants this to stop but also doesn't want to be a puppet state of the UiSreal(even if they are a puppet state of Russia currently).  And this is not just about Assad it is about control of resources.  Why should they want to sell their gas for the worthless US dollar, backed by the fradulent federal reserve?  Why should they also be in perpetual debt slavery to Central banking cartels like almost every other nation on earth?

No, this guy just WALL STREET has to have more and more, no matter how many other people have to suffer and die.

FTFY
 
2013-08-23 04:21:21 PM  

umad: Assholes started killing other assholes, so the rest of the world stopped complaining about our acting as the world's police so they could complain that we aren't acting as the world's police.


Great start. You should probably also include the fact that Americans are simultaneously furious with Obama for all potential choices regarding continued funding in the Middle East or not, as well as getting involved militarily vs. choosing not to.
 
2013-08-23 04:46:47 PM  

Wenchmaster: Bashar al Assad is the son of Syria's original dictator. He's a member of a group called Alawites, members of which have most of the top positions in the government and military. As a newbie dictator, Bashar Assad hasn't been quite as much of a hard-ass as his dear old dad, but then the non-Alawite population of Syria got encouraged by the so-called "Arab Spring" to start protesting economic, political, and social inequalities. Assad sent in his goon squads.

After getting beaten, arrested, and generally abused for the best part of a year, the protesters started fighting back. Assad's thug teams started calling for police and military back-up. The situation rapidly devolved from political protests to actual civil war.

The rebels would be snuffed out like a fart in a whirlwind if not for overt and covert Western support. Since they are getting at least some support from the West (largely funneled through Trukey, which is rapidly growing tired of Assad's histrionics), the rebels have managed to outlast most of Assad's ready ammunition supply. The Russians and Iranians aren't too keen on losing their last military ally in the region, so they're selling Syria guns and ammo- some of which is being interdicted by anti-Syria nations in the area.

Since the US and other Western countries haven't given the Syrian opposition the same degree of assistance they gave the Libyans, the Syrian rebels have looked elsewhere for help. Specifically, a lot of Al Qaeda affiliated shooters are fighting against Assad. This causes additional political problems for the US, because we're technically still trying to exterminate anyone affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Because Assad's ammo supplies are running low, he's losing his ability to kill the rebels in boxcar lots with conventional weapons. Add in the fact that most of the rebels who are still fighting have actually learned how to do so effectively AND they're getting minimal amounts of support in the form of weapons, ammo, and traini ...


As far as the situation on the ground, most of Syria's population is in the western and northern parts of the country. The southwestern corner is where they bump up against Israel and Lebanon, the Med is due west, and Turkey is due north. Jordan and Iraq lie to the east. The rebels have had success controlling areas in the northern and eastern parts of the country, but most of the urban areas are still war zones. The same areas of Damascus, Homs, and Aleppo have traded hands several times as the fighting swings back and forth. In at least a few of the northern and eastern urban areas, the rebels are basically in control, and in some of those locations, the Muslim Brotherhood or other jihadi-style insurgent groups have set up fundamentalist religious governments that are in control of what limited supplies and aid are coming into the area. This has led to clashes among the rebel leaders.

Casualties are insane, and refugees are fleeing in droves. Like Wenchmaster said, most of the surrounding countries are focused on containment with a minimum of supply. Unlike Egypt, for example, nobody is really able to keep out all of the jihadis who want to get in there. Nobody helped out the few secular rebels who were involved at the beginning of this thing, so now the rebels are mostly out-of-towners who see an opportunity to set up a hardcore Islamist government. There's no real good side in this fight, and I wish we could just keep out of it, but most likely, we'll be pulled in simply because of AIPAC and Turkey (a NATO country).
 
2013-08-23 05:13:13 PM  

lizyrd: Tatterdemalian: lewismarktwo: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: "Have fun in your next quagmire"

What can I say, we're suckers for 3rd world shiatholes with social problems.

The US: Where the police are soldiers and the soldiers are police.

And the problem is...?


The problem is that the US military isn't the world's baby sitter and shouldn't be thrown in to hostile meat grinders so we can pretend we're helping.  The problem is that the police in America have gone ape shiat and are not held accountable for the mayhem they cause while playing soldier.

Police and soldiers do the same thing, enforce their laws through violence when necessary and the threat of violence otherwise.

You are so far gone that you actually think a soldier's duty is to enforce laws.  WRONG.  The only military personnel with that job description is Military Police.  Because they are police.  Get it?  Sure, now we have soldiers trying on that role... which was my whole point.  Thanks for proving me right.

The difference is police are trained to do this at the request of the communities they occupy, while soldiers are trained to do this against the will of the communities they occupy.

I submit that modern police do not do what they do at the request of the communities they 'occupy' (you didn't even realize what you typed there did you). Example: Quotas for tickets and infractions AKA regressive taxation.  Not to mention pointless drug wars and asset forfeiture ie The State VS A Big Stack Of Money We Want.  They exist merely to perpetuate their own existence.  Further, ask certain people about 'stop and frisk' in NYC and ask them if they requested that shiat. (just a well known example, the same kind of thing happens all over the country)

This forces them to use very different tactics, police generally performing investigations to determine legal responsibility and soldiers generally doing whatever it takes to keep themselves alive while kicking the ass of anyone who makes them come over there, but if we decide to treat our police with murderous hostility

Who is treating police with murderous hostility?  Your average citizen wants to murder police?  Being a police is safer than delivering the mail.  Come off it.

and foreign countries are begging our soldiers to save them, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that each might start adopting the other's tactics.

Exactly what foreign country is begging to be invaded by the US?  These are bullshiat excuses and you know it.
  ----------

Putting some in-depth thought as to why things are the way they are? Idiot.

Cops are pigs because they have small penises, and are authoritarians, and because they were high school football players who got C-minuses and bullied nerds, and because that pig hassled me when he pulled me over because I wasn't going to talk to that pig with respect!

Don't you know anything, bootlicker?


You joke, but it's hard to be a decent person and stay a patrol cop for long.  Anyone with any decency is driven away by quotas and fundraising malarkey.  The way most cops routinely lie in court and in reports to justify their behavior is a national disgrace.  That's not serving the community; it's serving their own interests.  I won't even get into 'no knock' raids on Gramma's house because her grandson might be slinging some weed at school and we can't risk him flushing the evidence (all 2 ounces of it) and oops we shot your dog.
 
2013-08-23 06:36:03 PM  

Amos Quito: gfid: iheartscotch: DROxINxTHExWIND:

Amos Quito: tinyarena:

Amos Quito: Ned Stark: Fell In Love With a Chair:

Amos Quito: hardinparamedic: Amos Quito:

Amos Quito: mongbiohazard:


Snif!

I've been waiting for you for hours over at the other Syria thread to do your usual excellent job rebutting my weak evidence-backed arguments with your bulletproof theories, and instead of that you post five times over here while ignoring me.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7900332/France-has-decided-that-if-Syri a- used-chemical-weapons-that-US-should-do-something-about-it?startid=860 85997

(I wrote "time stamp" to mark the time you were absent.)

Don't tell me you're slipping, AQ.  Don't leave me this way.
 
2013-08-23 06:53:58 PM  

tirob: Amos Quito: gfid: iheartscotch: DROxINxTHExWIND:
Amos Quito: tinyarena:
Amos Quito: Ned Stark: Fell In Love With a Chair:
Amos Quito: hardinparamedic: Amos Quito:
Amos Quito: mongbiohazard:

Snif!

I've been waiting for you for hours over at the other Syria thread to do your usual excellent job rebutting my weak evidence-backed arguments with your bulletproof theories, and instead of that you post five times over here while ignoring me.

http://www.fark.com/comments/7900332/France-has-decided-that-if-Syri a- used-chemical-weapons-that-US-should-do-something-about-it?startid=860 85997

(I wrote "time stamp" to mark the time you were absent.)

Don't tell me you're slipping, AQ.  Don't leave me this way.



Just posted in the other thread. I delayed because, as you'll see, you are asking me to refute "evidence" that neither you nor your "source" provided. Bald accusations and rhetorical questions are not "evidence" of anything other than a weak argument.

Busy day.
 
2013-08-23 07:03:17 PM  

Fell In Love With a Chair: ......is it one of those "no one is right?" situations?


Any armed conflict in the real world almost always is.
 
2013-08-23 08:02:38 PM  
Headline from the Daily Mirror: Sickening horror in Syria while the world keeps its eyes wide shut

I heard that the World had its eyes gouged out for when it applies to whats left of Palestine and all those non-inspected loose nukes in Israel.

/Sure would love to know who is really responsible for the noxious gas, but when its a proxy war, plus Israel keeps poking its nose in for new countries to overthrow(like Egypt) its really hard to believe who is 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' responsible.

//McCain and Palin would of caused all of white christian Earth to ascend to their white peoples christian heaven by now, while the rest rot in hell, with blackjack, hookers and booze.
 
2013-08-23 10:26:43 PM  

Felgraf: ... So what would you like, Submitter? Should the US's reaction to chemical weapons being used on children and civilians be "That sucks. Not our problem."?

I suspect you'd be blasting the US for being callous and not caring about the lives of anyone but their ow in that case.


Actually yes, that would be exactly what I want the US to say.

Not, our, flipping, problem.

We do not have the money, resources, or lives to toss into fixing islamic third world hell holes. Especially when once one ultra religious dictator is toppled its instantly replaced with a far worse one.
 
2013-08-23 10:38:53 PM  

Felgraf: ... So what would you like, Submitter? Should the US's reaction to chemical weapons being used on children and civilians be "That sucks. Not our problem."?

I suspect you'd be blasting the US for being callous and not caring about the lives of anyone but their ow in that case.


I've got three sons who will be draft age in a few years. The more I think about it, the more my view is

"That sucks. Not our problem".

Besides, I really don't see that any of the rebel groups would be an improvement. Too bad, but this seems to be one problem that simply has no solution. Sort of like the Spanish Civil War: fascists vs. commies. Take your pick.
 
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