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(Yahoo)   Texas bans sales of Tesla cars, because Fark you   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 114
    More: Obvious, Texas, Fark, Motor Trend  
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20190 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:49 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-22 11:25:02 AM
15 votes:
The franchise law is bullshiat legislation that does very little besides screw consumers
2013-08-22 12:31:15 PM
14 votes:
"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.
2013-08-22 11:30:32 AM
9 votes:
If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril.

So?
2013-08-22 01:01:35 PM
8 votes:

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.  I drove a Tesla from NYC to Montreal and had to stop three times to charge the bastard.  Combine that with acceleration that feels like an elastic that never snaps and you have a crappy car.  I won't even mention the looks.  So what if its a "safe car".  How often do I crash up?


Hmm, whom to believe? Just about every review written by professional auto experts and auto magazines, or a internet forum post by someone that doesn't even know the difference between they're and there. Decisions decisions.
2013-08-22 01:23:24 PM
3 votes:

This text is now purple: Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players


yeah we can't have manufacturers selling direct to the public

cdn.iphoneincanada.ca

www.winbeta.org
2013-08-22 01:10:48 PM
3 votes:

indarwinsshadow: Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.


In the Tesla thread the other day, I said that it wouldn't be long before Big Oil finds a way to squish Tesla. I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist, that the Oil CEOs don't give a fark about Tesla, etc.

Leave it to Texas to crush others' faith in humanity.
2013-08-22 01:05:36 PM
3 votes:
Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
2013-08-22 01:00:40 PM
3 votes:

Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.


All of these state bans could be challenged. The Commerce Clause gives the federal government a lot of power.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddganos/2013/05/15/north-carolinas-thre a t-to-tesla-likely-unconstitutional/
2013-08-22 12:59:52 PM
3 votes:
LOL conservatives always support capitalism and survival-of-the-fittest in the marketplace, yet one of their strongholds won't let capitalism run its course? Hypocritical assholes!
2013-08-22 12:58:00 PM
3 votes:
Gotta love them small government conservatives.
2013-08-22 12:57:40 PM
3 votes:
Ric Romero reports that the rich can buy legislation.  More at 11.
2013-08-22 12:57:27 PM
3 votes:

Dr Dreidel: Voiceofreason01: The franchise law is bullshiat legislation that does very little besides screw consumers

For those of us ignorant of such things (and who don't want to search teh googles ourselves), can you 'splain?

// EXplanation > MANsplanation, but whatever you got


car manufacturers are prohibited by law from selling cars directly to the public and you cannot sell cars online. Basically the law only exists to bring extra tax revenue into the State and support dealerships.
2013-08-22 12:55:41 PM
3 votes:
More sales (and tax dollars) for Oklahoma and other neighboring states. Keep shooting yourselves in the foot Texas.
2013-08-22 12:39:15 PM
3 votes:
About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
2013-08-22 12:34:03 PM
3 votes:
"If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.
2013-08-22 11:44:42 AM
3 votes:

Barfmaker: I guess what I'm axing is, what's the difference between a dealer and a store?


Less middlemen making money for nothing other than adhering to a bullshiat law intended to protect them, and for no other reason...
2013-08-22 02:18:42 PM
2 votes:
THIS IS NOT HOW SMALL GOVERNMENT WORKS.
2013-08-22 02:09:23 PM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Marcus Aurelius: "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.

The idea behind franchise laws is less to prop up the franchisees themselves and more to prevent the auto manufacturers from implementing complete market integration.

Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players. Are you sure you want Texas taking the libertarian ideal?


And why would that be bad?

It works for Apple.
It works for Sears.
It works for lots of apparel companies.
It works for Ikea.

Why is it important to have independent car dealerships?
2013-08-22 01:51:10 PM
2 votes:
You can smell the fear in these threads.  It's why I love coming into them so much.
2013-08-22 01:21:46 PM
2 votes:
NPR's Planet Money had a great segment on the auto franchise laws, how they came to be, why they aren't going anywhere anytime soon and how they are used to prevent internet car sales, etc.  Good listen if you have the time:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/19/172402376/why-buying-a-car -n ever-changes
(4:27)
2013-08-22 01:19:15 PM
2 votes:
Dear Texas,

Please make good on your promise to secede. Then you can do whatever backwards-ass bullshiat you want to.

Signed,

The USA
2013-08-22 01:15:20 PM
2 votes:
Yet they have a problem with California trying to regulate that any eggs sold in California come from chickens that have minimum dimensions to live in because of interstate commerce, blah blah.  God these people just can't get any more hypocritical or petty.
2013-08-22 01:14:55 PM
2 votes:
Ah, here's an article with a fun explanation of the Tesla buying process:
You can visit one of the two galleries Tesla Motors operates in the state - one in Austin, the other in Houston - but employees can't tell you how much the car costs. They can't offer you a test drive. They can't even give you their website address. And if you buy one, the car is delivered by a third party - in a truck that's not allowed to have Tesla markings.
"So the car just gets dumped off at your house," said Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk. "And the customer has to peel off the plastic wrap themselves."


Peeling off plastic is something I can manage (better than the local Ford dealership, as it turns out), but the rest of that is ridiculous.
I'm wondering how the "they can't offer you a test drive" thing works.  Does that just mean they're not allowed to suggest it, or I can't even go up there and ask to test drive it?
2013-08-22 01:13:11 PM
2 votes:

serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.


Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.
2013-08-22 01:10:09 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I was behind a Model S on the way in to work this morning

/nice ride
//too nice for Texas, anyway


If you get the chance to drive one, do it.  Unfarkingbelievable car.  Two friends of mine each have one (one with the performance package, and one without), and I've driven both, and was completely blown away by both, though the one with the performance package is almost surreal and is certainly not recommended for those with a heart condition.  I've driven (and owned) a lot of very nice, high-end cars over the years, but nothing compares to the Tesla S.  I'm pretty sure I'll be buying one within the next year or two.
2013-08-22 01:08:48 PM
2 votes:

gnosis301: dj_spanmaster: Ah, the GM and Ford lobbyists have been busy. They'll do it one state at a time, if they can't do it nationally.

I believe auto manufacturers have little, if anything to do with this. It's more like local car dealers doing this.


Oh sure, they're the vocal ones, and the ones directly in the lines of fire. But if you think major auto manufacturers aren't interested in this, you're misled. Individual dealers don't have a lot of money; it's most likely that the manufacturers are throwing their financial weight behind the dealerships, but letting them be the public face.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 01:07:16 PM
2 votes:

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.  I drove a Tesla from NYC to Montreal and had to stop three times to charge the bastard.  Combine that with acceleration that feels like an elastic that never snaps and you have a crappy car.  I won't even mention the looks.  So what if its a "safe car".  How often do I crash up?


Is this your office?

cache.jalopnik.com
2013-08-22 01:06:46 PM
2 votes:

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.


Where doing everyone a favor?

cdn.chud.com
2013-08-22 01:05:19 PM
2 votes:

Walliser: Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.


Yeah, that's probably it. It's not that conservatives told you that and you believed them.
2013-08-22 12:57:36 PM
2 votes:
Ah, the GM and Ford lobbyists have been busy. They'll do it one state at a time, if they can't do it nationally.
2013-08-22 12:41:31 PM
2 votes:

Therion: "If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.


I'm guessing that since being a Texas legislator is a part time job, most legislators are car salesmen in the 8 or so months they have off. Most likely used car salesmen.
2013-08-22 12:16:37 PM
2 votes:

UberDave: Just change their name to "Jesusmobile" and they will sell like double-wide fold-out chairs down here...


/Dammit
2013-08-22 11:32:36 AM
2 votes:
So is Tesla saying they'll have dealerships but the dealerships will be owned by Tesla? I guess what I'm axing is, what's the difference between a dealer and a store? And more to the point, if I bought one, where would I take it to get it fixed?
2013-08-22 11:32:30 AM
2 votes:
So Texas will be banning iPhone, iPad and iPod sales too?
2013-08-22 07:10:00 PM
1 votes:

Firethorn: I recognize the 2nd vehicle, but don't remember what it's company details are.


BMW Isetta.
2013-08-22 05:16:22 PM
1 votes:
waterrockets:
Go price a strut replacement at any manufacturer's dealership you like. Now go price the parts and watch the youtube video to DIY. Still think service is an overhead cost? My Acura dealership exists almost solely to get cars on the road for trumped up maintenance costs.

I just replaced my MDX's rear diff oil for $25 out of pocket (including Acura brand diff oil at $6.50/qt.), in just 15 minutes from unbagging the pump to washing my hands. Dealership price: $170. Acura customers are not so price sensitive, and most will see a $650 maintenance estimate, wince a little, then pull out t ...


Yes, a service dept. is an overhead cost.  I agree that some services are better DIY (not that a Tesla will ever need trans. oil, right?), but you still have to figure in the cost of diagnostic equipment, a service area (bay, garage, whatever), service technicians...

You can still replace your own blinker fluid, if you like.  But it's hard to imagine Tesla will let you replace a malfunctioning battery coolant pump, or service one of their custom-built motors.  They're going to want - actually insist - that you let them handle a certain amount of service.
2013-08-22 03:42:16 PM
1 votes:
Sounds really bootstrappy, what with all the protections for existing layers of middlemen and all.
2013-08-22 03:39:35 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: The Irresponsible Captain: It's protectionism and only serves to line the pockets of fat cats.

It's not like any auto dealer has a monopoly on cars and needs to be regulated. I say open it up to the free market.

What it's protecting is the network of car dealers across the state of Texas.  Are they fat cats?  I don't know.  I do know that most of the car dealers I've ever dealt with were scum sucking bottom feeders, so it's hard for me to find any sympathy for their industry.

At most, I can simply suggest that they try to get some night classes in before their industry disappears.


One major fat cat.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_McCombs
2013-08-22 03:23:03 PM
1 votes:
So Musk is declaring war on car dealers, but car dealers are also declaring war on Musk. They have already successfully booted him out of Texas and there is anti-Tesla legislation pending in North Carolina, Colorado and Virginia.

"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

Like the auto franchise system has any integrity.  The ONLY reason that law exists is to stifle competition.
2013-08-22 03:17:18 PM
1 votes:

serial_crusher: Infernalist: Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.

It's a luxury car company until it isn't a luxury car company anymore.

Yup, Tesla is only a luxury car company now because it's easier to start out that way.  Fixing this broken law will help them reach regular consumers more quickly.


Screw the law.  They're getting to the point where they can simply side-step Texas and any other state that wants to continue betting on a dying industry.
2013-08-22 03:14:08 PM
1 votes:

IRQ12: The successful car will probably be some 1/2 ass knock off made by GM. Americans have long ago abandoned quality for quantity

feasibility.

The average American can't afford a $100k car, given that the median household income is something like $50k/year.  I'm sure most people would rather have a high-quality car, but first they need to worry about having a car at all.
2013-08-22 03:07:46 PM
1 votes:
Made in the USA -- so fark that, lets ban it because we're patriots.
2013-08-22 02:52:20 PM
1 votes:

IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".


I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.
2013-08-22 02:43:23 PM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Deucednuisance: Infernalist: Do we know if Tesla is setting up recharging stations in Texas?

Yup.  We do, and they are.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

Use the little slider doohickey below the map to see planned expansion.

Between Exits 1 and 3Delaware Welcome Center and Travel Plaza
530 JFK Memorial Highway
Newark, DE 19725

Nice. The only station between Connecticut and Florida is located in a rest stop off of a toll road. Just getting to that station will cost you at least $5.


Yeah, if I had a Bluestar today, I'd be in trouble if I wanted to drive up to NYC.

But, since I won't have it until 2015 or 2016, I'm not altogether worried about it right now.
2013-08-22 02:41:48 PM
1 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: It's protectionism and only serves to line the pockets of fat cats.

It's not like any auto dealer has a monopoly on cars and needs to be regulated. I say open it up to the free market.


What it's protecting is the network of car dealers across the state of Texas.  Are they fat cats?  I don't know.  I do know that most of the car dealers I've ever dealt with were scum sucking bottom feeders, so it's hard for me to find any sympathy for their industry.

At most, I can simply suggest that they try to get some night classes in before their industry disappears.
2013-08-22 02:35:55 PM
1 votes:

LandOfChocolate: That ultimately would hurt consumers, he said, because franchise dealers compete with each other to keep prices down and they serve customers in rural communities.


So it hurts consumers to save money and it hurts rural communities to have ready access to services?  This guy is a prick.  There's no two ways about it.  Prick.
2013-08-22 02:35:24 PM
1 votes:

FrancoFile: Why is it important to have independent car dealerships?


For the public and for the market it wouldn't be bad at all. Having dealerships protected by law increases the cost of all automobiles by several thousand dollars. Consumers would benefit.

The reason why it will be difficult to change is because it would be very bad for local and state politicians. You need to be pretty wealthy to start a dealership, and those dealerships tend to contribute heavily to local and state politicians either directly or through associations. The politicians don't want to piss off major campaign contributors, so they make sure to keep them protected.

Soooooo many parts of our market have devolved from capitalism to crony capitalism.
2013-08-22 02:35:18 PM
1 votes:

IRQ12: I bought a scratcher ticket for 2$ and got 20$ back. Both have about the same amount to do with the success of the car/company.


True enough. The facts that (1) there's so much demand that  they can't make their $100K cars fast enough to come even close to sastifying the current market demand (meaning that there is a waiting list of several months for buyer, and all of the people on it have plunked down $5000 in advance just to get a spot on the waiting list), and buyers can, if they choose to (and few choose to) resell their car on Craigslist for more than the price they paid for it new to people who don't want to wait their turn on the waiting list; (2) the car received the highest rating any car has ever received from Consumer Reports, and has received universal praise from reviewers and multiple "Car of the Year" awards from car publications; and (3) the car just received the NTSB's higest ever crash-test results for any car ever test, all do speak to the success of the car/company.

Plus, having driven them myself, I can attest that the car is farking incredibly.  The best car I've ever driven, and I've driven plenty of very, very nice cars over the years.
2013-08-22 02:31:30 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Do we know if Tesla is setting up recharging stations in Texas?


Yup.  We do, and they are.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

Use the little slider doohickey below the map to see planned expansion.
2013-08-22 02:31:03 PM
1 votes:

lendog: Do I think the law in Texas is good?  I don't know.  I do know that Jeremy Clarkson didn't car for a Tesla a few years ago and that is all I need to know.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-c la rkson


Clarkson is the Kim Kardashian of the auto world. Famous for nothing, and has a very grating personality.
He is the worst part about that entire program.
2013-08-22 02:29:40 PM
1 votes:

lendog: Do I think the law in Texas is good?  I don't know.  I do know that Jeremy Clarkson didn't car for a Tesla a few years ago and that is all I need to know.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-c la rkson


Dude went out of his way to try and run that battery down and end up stranded...and then complained that the battery ran down and he ended up stranded.

If you're swayed by that, then you're better off not having an electric car because you may well find a way to kill yourself with it.
2013-08-22 02:28:45 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: simplicimus: Oil, natural gas run power plants.

Show me one commercial utility in the US that runs its generators on oil.

Just one.

Good luck with that.


It's absolutely cheating to name this one, but the American Samoa Power Authority.

/Of course, this would never work for the whole country the way it does for a small island
//And even they are currently trying to get off of diesel
///It cost like $100/month to air condition a 1-bedroom apartment only when I was using it.
2013-08-22 02:26:56 PM
1 votes:

Onkel Buck: groppet: Wow these dumbasses are really that scared of the future. Why not embrace it and make more money off it you putz.

Because then people would biatch about that. You really cant win. Everyone has a whiney axe to grind


People are already making money off of it, just not the middlemen and 'that' is what has them in an uproar.

The established system with combustion engine vehicles has the car makers making money, the dealers making money and the oil companies making money.

Tesla's electric cars has Tesla making money and....that's it.  Well, maybe the people who build the recharge stations?  Unless that's Tesla, too.

You can see why there's resistance to Tesla's efforts.
2013-08-22 02:21:35 PM
1 votes:
The problem is the demonic vehicles run on satanic magic and not God's sweet crude.
2013-08-22 02:14:11 PM
1 votes:

PerilousApricot: Psylence: This text is now purple: Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.

If you buy a car out of state you only pay sales tax when you register it in your home state...

I bought a car from IL and had it FedEx'd to me in PA a few years ago.

How does FedEx price that?


It's about a grand anywhere in the US. Completely enclosed trailers... They bought a company a couple years ago that specialized in vehicle transport and took over their fleet. Little bit pricier than other services that use open trailers, but FedEx has much better guarantees, drivers, and equipment..
I got a $33K Mazda for $25.. add in the shipping and I still came out miles ahead!
2013-08-22 02:13:07 PM
1 votes:

PerilousApricot: dragonfire77: serial_crusher: We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.

Build capacitance into the grid.  Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.  Increase capacitance, and you don't run into the issue where one terminal station overload causes everything else in the chain to go down.  Much more time to ramp production of electricity up or down to meet demand, less loss in the grid, and less wasted production.

A rough calculation will show that it's not quite as easy as "increasing capacitance". A capacitor bank storing, say, a megawatt-hour of charge would be farking enormous, and arguably cheaper to just buole another plant.


There ARE options......

http://energy.gov/articles/liquid-layer-solution-grid
2013-08-22 02:11:32 PM
1 votes:

FrancoFile: This text is now purple: Marcus Aurelius: "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.

The idea behind franchise laws is less to prop up the franchisees themselves and more to prevent the auto manufacturers from implementing complete market integration.

Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players. Are you sure you want Texas taking the libertarian ideal?

And why would that be bad?

It works for Apple.
It works for Sears.
It works for lots of apparel companies.
It works for Ikea.

Why is it important to have independent car dealerships?


Middlemen.  Lots and lots of middlemen.
2013-08-22 02:08:36 PM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Infernalist: Kraftwerk Orange: This text is now purple: The barebones 40kWh base model ($49,900 after rebate) isn't on sale yet, and its specs haven't even been published yet.

That model has been dropped entirely. They decided it wasn't profitable, so they axed it from the line-up.

Yup, they're focusing on the Tesla Bluestar now.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_BlueStar

They just keep kicking that can down the road. Didn't they promise the S in like 2007? And the Model S was supposed to be that $40k model!


We'll see.  My bank has already promised me a loan for the down payment, so I'm good.
2013-08-22 02:08:03 PM
1 votes:

happydude45: Nhojwolfe: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

I also remember reading about this from Newyork as well.

But lets all focus on Texas

I, for one, think it is cute how all of the jealous non-Texans react to our state. Funny as hell.


What's there to be jealous of? I live here, and I can tell you, Texas is nothing to be proud of, son. It's like you are saying that the kids making fun of the 'tard are jealous of the 'tard. Yeah, it's so f*cking awesome to be able to count to potato!
2013-08-22 02:05:34 PM
1 votes:
2013-08-22 02:04:44 PM
1 votes:

Cyberluddite: This text is now purple: Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.

I have, yes.  And although the laws vary from state to state, my understanding of the usual situation is this:

Buy the car from a dealer out-of-state, and take delivery out of state:  You pay sales tax in the state where you bought the car.  You will get the kind of temporary registration that is typical for new car sales in that state (a paper license plate, a sticker in the window, etc.)  When you drive it home and take it to the DMV to register it, you show them the paperwork proving that you already paid sales tax in the state where you took delivery.  You will not be charged sales tax by your home state, since you took, delivery there.


Pennsylvania doesn't care. If you haven't owned it for more than 6 months, you pay sales tax in order to register in PA. They'll work out the difference w/ reciprocal states, but PA collects sales tax regardless of where you actually buy the thing.
2013-08-22 02:04:32 PM
1 votes:

studebaker hoch: Car dealers are just afraid that Tesla is going to show up and be nice to people.


You really can't blame the car dealers.  Tesla is sidestepping them entirely by selling directly to the market instead of selling to dealers who get to jack up the price for their own profit margins.

They're simply looking out for their own survival, but at the same time, FARK CAR DEALERS.  Most of them are scum.
2013-08-22 02:04:02 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: simplicimus: Oil, natural gas run power plants.

Show me one commercial utility in the US that runs its generators on oil.

Just one.

Good luck with that.


I can show you quite a few.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Electric_Industries#Generation
2013-08-22 02:00:35 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: simplicimus: Oil, natural gas run power plants.

Show me one commercial utility in the US that runs its generators on oil.

Just one.

Good luck with that.


Entergy has a number of dual plants, Gas/oil depending on market price. Same for Reliant in Houston, don't remember the actual overall Corporation.
2013-08-22 01:56:55 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Do we know if Tesla is setting up recharging stations in Texas?


Yep.  Has a new one opening in San Marcos, a little bit south of Austin.
2013-08-22 01:50:12 PM
1 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: Why are Tesla threads becoming the new tipping/IQ/kids on planes threads?


I respectfully disagree.  They are the new "Priuses are harmful to the environment/driven by smug hippies" threads.
2013-08-22 01:49:03 PM
1 votes:

dragonfire77: serial_crusher: We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.

Build capacitance into the grid.  Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.  Increase capacitance, and you don't run into the issue where one terminal station overload causes everything else in the chain to go down.  Much more time to ramp production of electricity up or down to meet demand, less loss in the grid, and less wasted production.


A rough calculation will show that it's not quite as easy as "increasing capacitance". A capacitor bank storing, say, a megawatt-hour of charge would be farking enormous, and arguably cheaper to just buole another plant.

Flywheels? No, same problem. You can only make them so big and so fast before the centripetal force pulls them apart.

Your best bet is to find a place with a very steep hill, a body of water and a plateau. When you have too much energy, you pump the water uphill, then run it downhill through a generator to get the electricity back. But then you're paying two penalties for the losses from the extra pumps and generators

Transient (and efficient!) energy storage at that scale basically doesn't exist.
2013-08-22 01:47:02 PM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.


I have, yes.  And although the laws vary from state to state, my understanding of the usual situation is this:

Buy the car from a dealer out-of-state, and take delivery out of state:  You pay sales tax in the state where you bought the car.  You will get the kind of temporary registration that is typical for new car sales in that state (a paper license plate, a sticker in the window, etc.)  When you drive it home and take it to the DMV to register it, you show them the paperwork proving that you already paid sales tax in the state where you took delivery.  You will not be charged sales tax by your home state, since you took, delivery there.

Buy the car from a dealer out-of-state, but don't take delivery in that state--the dealer delivers the car to in your home state:  You do not pay sales tax in the state where you bought the car.  You will still likely get the temporary registration that is typical for new car sales in that state, but no sales tax is charged because you did not take delivery in that state.  When you go to the DMV to register it, you will be charged sales tax by your home state (in this case, the state where you took delivery) at the same rate as if you had bought it locally.

The one twist in this situation is that, in some states, you will be charged sales tax if you bough the car out-of-state in a state that doesn't charge sales tax at all (Oregon, for example) even if you took delivery in that state.  Though, again, I think this varies from state to state.
2013-08-22 01:46:29 PM
1 votes:

IntertubeUser: Shiat like this makes me want to own a Tesla as a big F*** YOU to the naysayers and conservitards.  Yeah, it's not the cheapest car on the road, but it is a great product and I'd certainly pay extra for the benefit of displaying my rebellious streak.


I've already talked to my bank about the Bluestar when it becomes available.  Thanks to the various 'green' subsidy incentives, my bank is by far more prepared to help me with a loan for a Bluestar than a conventional gasoline vehicle.
2013-08-22 01:41:47 PM
1 votes:

chasd00: car dealerships are scared to death they're going to get the same treatment as the best buys out there. People come to the dealership and test drive then go home and order online direct from the manufacturer at a discount. That's what all this feuding and a'fussin is about.


Having known my fair share of car dealers, I can honestly say the whole lot could go bankrupt and end up unemployed tomorrow and I'd have a steak dinner to celebrate.
2013-08-22 01:40:10 PM
1 votes:

indarwinsshadow: Rogers and Bell in Canada have been trying to manipulate the courts, the CRTC and the government for years making sure they have a strangle hold on cell, television, home phone and internet for years and year. Going as far recently as to take out full page ads in some of the largest newspapers trying to convince people that having a player come in from the United States in the cell phone market is bad for Canada.


Ummm... I'd see at least a tiny bit of similarity if in this instance, existing car dealerships in Texas were being forced to allow a Tesla rep to be on-site at their facility to sell his company's vehicles.  But we're talking about a new competitor which has full intention of operating independently of the established dealerships, not piggy-backing on existing sales channels.
2013-08-22 01:39:32 PM
1 votes:

Kraftwerk Orange: Fireproof: Someone explain to me why Tesla doesn't just get some independent franchises or get sold at some existing places like the law requires them to. The only reason I can think of is that they're smaller than the others.

They don't want to share that sweet, sweet profit margin with any middlemen.  They need to keep it for themselves, to keep the company profitable.


Exactly.  They're managing to make it work by avoiding middlemen and need to jack up the price to pay those middlemen.  Good on them.
2013-08-22 01:39:02 PM
1 votes:

CaptSS: Walker: More sales (and tax dollars) for Oklahoma and other neighboring states. Keep shooting yourselves in the foot Texas.

Did you read the part of the article where is says your state (Virginia) has pending legislation for the same thing?

/that foot you mention appears to be in your mouth


Yes, I saw that but it is pending, not LAW like in Texas.
2013-08-22 01:38:43 PM
1 votes:

Kraftwerk Orange: This text is now purple: The barebones 40kWh base model ($49,900 after rebate) isn't on sale yet, and its specs haven't even been published yet.

That model has been dropped entirely. They decided it wasn't profitable, so they axed it from the line-up.


Yup, they're focusing on the Tesla Bluestar now.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_BlueStar
2013-08-22 01:38:26 PM
1 votes:

Fireproof: Someone explain to me why Tesla doesn't just get some independent franchises or get sold at some existing places like the law requires them to. The only reason I can think of is that they're smaller than the others.


They don't want to share that sweet, sweet profit margin with any middlemen.  They need to keep it for themselves, to keep the company profitable.
2013-08-22 01:34:17 PM
1 votes:

inner ted: looked online - is it really only $50k ?


Yes and no. Nothing on-sale now is below $87,900 after rebate and before taxes. That's the price range of an Audi S8, a BMW M5, a Jaguar XJ, a Porsche Panamera, or a Viper SRT. Not exactly middle-class family sedan.

The barebones 40kWh base model ($49,900 after rebate) isn't on sale yet, and its specs haven't even been published yet. I'm guessing that thing will be like the 4-cyl castrated version of the Mustang -- only rental dealers will bother with them. That's in the range of the Audi A6, BMW 5-series, or the Cadillac XTS.

The most expensive Kia, by comparison, has an MSRP of $32k.
2013-08-22 01:34:17 PM
1 votes:

the money is in the banana stand: It is a tricky situation and I am not sure why car dealerships are any different than our industry. I am not sure why manufacturers cannot own their own dealerships. They do not in our industry not because they cannot, but because that it just doesn't work.


The manufactures might not own the dealerships, but they own the new car inventories and can pull your franchise at a moment's notice. They also own the certification of the techs, and have a lot of control over the branding of the dealership itself. I think that the manufacturers prefer to franchise the dealers because it creates a buffer zone of liability between the customer and the manufacturer. Cars need to be sold in a high pressure, commissioned environment and the manufacturer doesn't want to be responsible for that.

Tesla is a little different because it is a boutique manufacturer with a ton of hype and very little market competition. I personally don't think that running their own dealerships saves them a dime, but the CEO is a Jobs-esque control freak.
2013-08-22 01:32:45 PM
1 votes:

dragonfire77: serial_crusher: We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.

Build capacitance into the grid.  Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.  Increase capacitance, and you don't run into the issue where one terminal station overload causes everything else in the chain to go down.  Much more time to ramp production of electricity up or down to meet demand, less loss in the grid, and less wasted production.


The grid has plenty of capacitors and resistors. Last I was in that industry (mid 80's to mid '90s) they weren't maintained and most didn't function. Too expensive to maintain, the shareholders needed the money more.
2013-08-22 01:29:59 PM
1 votes:
Could Tesla work out some kind of deal with CarMax to have them be the exclusive sellers of Tesla cars?  You'd still get some markup, but the consumer experience would be fine, and it would be a great fark you to the traditional dealership scumbags.

I don't think you'd need to worry about the salesman being "prejudiced" against electric cars there (or at any dealership really).  People looking for a Tesla probably wouldn't be interested in the other Carmax cars and vice versa.
2013-08-22 01:28:13 PM
1 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: Dinki: Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.

And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.

Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.

And it ain't the American Flag.


East Texas, it's the Stars and Bars.
2013-08-22 01:26:36 PM
1 votes:
Car dealerships are the biggest scam going and they are not going to give an inch.
You would not believe the money that can be made in that industry, I was involved for many years.
And this is Canada, I would imagine the larger market of America would be worse for scamming.

How can you sell something that is now $10,000 off, with $2,500 worth of this, $1,000 worth of that and a trip to Mexico?

WHAT DID THE VEHICLE COST IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?

Did your buddy pay $15,000 more than you 8 months ago for the same thing?
2013-08-22 01:25:40 PM
1 votes:
FTFA:  "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

I've lived in Texas for 15 years, so let me translate this for all of you who aren't that fortunate:

"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws to sell cars directly to buyers. If we made an exception for everybody let people do that, nobody would buy cars from us, because we're such a bunch of assholes that 'buying a car' shows up on the list of things that people hate the most somewhere between oral surgery and doing time in prison, so if we that showed up in the legislature our giant payoffs to the legislature could be circumvented, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril. we'd disappear entirely, and there would be great joy and celebration throughout the land. And we can't have that. Because we live in a free enterprise system, which requires bribes to politicians in order to keep it 'free.'  Why do you hate America?"

Hope that clears it up.
2013-08-22 01:25:14 PM
1 votes:

serial_crusher: simplicimus: dragonfire77: serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.

Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.

Oil, natural gas run power plants. Electric cars are electric.

I have to believe the profit margins on gasoline are higher, since electricity rates are so much more regulated.
It will be kind of interesting when everybody switches to electric cars though.  We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.


Well, living close enough to the gulf, I have a gas powered generator, so in theory I could have an electric cars and still buy gasoline.
2013-08-22 01:23:47 PM
1 votes:

Dinki: Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.

And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.


Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.

And it ain't the American Flag.
2013-08-22 01:22:31 PM
1 votes:

Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.


Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.
2013-08-22 01:21:27 PM
1 votes:

Dinki: simplicimus: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.

Yeah, we are really becoming a third world nation aren't we. Soon enough Tesla will top trying to fight these stupid laws and simply sell all their cars overseas where the real money is.


I think that's the overall GOP plan. If they can't turn the US into a third world country all at once, they have a state by state plan. See what's happening in other GOP controlled states.
2013-08-22 01:20:11 PM
1 votes:

clkeagle: indarwinsshadow: Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

In the Tesla thread the other day, I said that it wouldn't be long before Big Oil finds a way to squish Tesla. I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist, that the Oil CEOs don't give a fark about Tesla, etc.

Leave it to Texas to crush others' faith in humanity.


Except this isn't "big oil", it's car dealerships that are doing it to defend their entrenched legal protectionism.
2013-08-22 01:16:31 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.


Yeah, we are really becoming a third world nation aren't we. Soon enough Tesla will top trying to fight these stupid laws and simply sell all their cars overseas where the real money is.
2013-08-22 01:16:06 PM
1 votes:

Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.


I assume that, like the vast majority of states, Texas charges sales tax on new cars purchased in the state, right?  The sales tax on a car that sells for close to 100 grand is quite a chunk of change.  Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Not sure how the Tesla dealer thing works in other states, of course, since I'm in Northern California.  Around here, buyers just pick them up from the factory in Fremont and drive them home.  As a bonus, they give you a tour of the factory when you pick up your car.  I got to along with a friend when he picked his new Tesla up there, and one impression you come away with is that Tesla is really in this for the long haul--the capital investment and technology in that factory is jaw-dropping for a start-up company.
2013-08-22 01:14:44 PM
1 votes:

BigNumber12: ampoliros: BigNumber12: Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.

The legislators.


Yes, I kinda figured that legislators were responsible for the creation of a law... can we be a bit more specific?


The automobile dealer associations.  These are lobbying groups at the state level that represent the dealers.  These groups influence the legislators.

In this case, the deck is stacked against Tesla because its impossible for them to have any representation at the state level, in every state.  Thats why they'll probably take this to the feds as the post article I linked above mentioned.
2013-08-22 01:12:57 PM
1 votes:

Walliser: Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.


It can occur anywhere.  Conservative lawmakers just have to come up with more interesting justifications for why their actions totally contradict their policies when it happens in their area.
2013-08-22 01:11:43 PM
1 votes:

serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.


There's one in Houston by the Galleria and one in Austin also. Guess they didn't get the memo.
2013-08-22 01:10:35 PM
1 votes:

Walker: More sales (and tax dollars) for Oklahoma and other neighboring states. Keep shooting yourselves in the foot Texas.


Every time we do the bullet passes through and we strike oil.
2013-08-22 01:10:10 PM
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.


That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.
2013-08-22 01:06:30 PM
1 votes:

Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.


you get to tax the dealer when they buy the car and again when they sell it.
2013-08-22 01:04:59 PM
1 votes:

Nem Wan: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

All of these state bans could be challenged. The Commerce Clause gives the federal government a lot of power.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddganos/2013/05/15/north-carolinas-thre a t-to-tesla-likely-unconstitutional/


According to this article in the post, http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-24/local/40164497_1_tesla- m otors-model-s-elon-musk, thats probably what they'll do

Chief executive Elon Musk has said he might take his case to Congress or the federal courts. "If we're seeing nonstop battles at the state level, rather than fight 20 different state battles, I'd rather fight one federal battle," Musk told Automotive News in April.
2013-08-22 01:04:01 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: mcreadyblue: simplicimus: Therion: "If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.

I'm guessing that since being a Texas legislator is a part time job, most legislators are car salesmen in the 8 or so months they have off. Most likely used car salesmen.

They only work 4 months every two years.

Most are lawyers.

Huh. I thought the 140 days were work days, not elapsed time. And lawyers vs. used car salesmen, I can't say which I'd prefer.


They often work weekends and have all night sessions.

The govornor can call for a special session at any time, but legislatures can only work on specified legislature. Or do nothing. ;-)

Bribes are perfectly legal in Texas ( except on the floor of the Senate or House and except by businesses ) so many just live off that slush money.
2013-08-22 01:04:01 PM
1 votes:
Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.
2013-08-22 01:03:53 PM
1 votes:
I saw a Tesla just last week in Texas, with a Texas temp paper plate.  So at least one person in Texas managed to get one.  Texas needs to pull their head out of their ass on this, unless they plan on passing some outrageous  registration fees to make up for the fact that Tesla owners will not be paying road taxes through fuel purchases.
2013-08-22 01:03:36 PM
1 votes:
More bootstrappy republicans getting government out of our lives for the defence of the free market. They must laugh at those blue states that allow consumer to buy directly from the manufacturer  based on the quality of the product and service.
2013-08-22 01:02:20 PM
1 votes:
As a Texan who has spotted half a dozen Teslas scooting about town, I am rather shocked to learn about the distribution laws. Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.

I'd bet there's more to the laws than whats been presented in tfa, but it does appear the law might need a little tweaking.
2013-08-22 12:59:33 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: Dr Dreidel: Voiceofreason01: The franchise law is bullshiat legislation that does very little besides screw consumers

For those of us ignorant of such things (and who don't want to search teh googles ourselves), can you 'splain?

// EXplanation > MANsplanation, but whatever you got

car manufacturers are prohibited by law from selling cars directly to the public and you cannot sell cars online. Basically the law only exists to bring extra tax revenue into the State and support dealerships.


Not true.

Used cars can be sold online. Only news cars are forbidden.
2013-08-22 12:59:20 PM
1 votes:
From: http://www.statesman.com/news/business/tesla-lobbies-to-sell-its-elec t ric-cars-directly-t/nXHrY/

The bills are being opposed by the Texas Automobile Dealers Association, the state trade association for franchised new car and truck dealers. Bill Wolters, the association's president, said that, while Tesla is a niche player, the bills could open the door to larger manufacturers coming into Texas and attempting to sell directly to customers.

That ultimately would hurt consumers, he said, because franchise dealers compete with each other to keep prices down and they serve customers in rural communities.


Oh, fark you.  I understand that this guy has a job to do, which is representing his industry, but this is total bullshiat.

I wonder how it feels to stand in the way of progress and be on the wrong side of history?
2013-08-22 12:58:19 PM
1 votes:
Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.
2013-08-22 12:58:02 PM
1 votes:

GameSprocket: You would think that a "news" article would have at least covered the legal reasoning behind the ban. Maybe the author could have written a short explanation of what the franchise law is? Sounds like an anti-trust measure, but that would be stupid.


Beer/Liquor manufacturers are also banned from selling to stores ( Walmart , etc ) or bars ( Applebys ).
2013-08-22 12:57:32 PM
1 votes:
There doing everyone a favor.  I drove a Tesla from NYC to Montreal and had to stop three times to charge the bastard.  Combine that with acceleration that feels like an elastic that never snaps and you have a crappy car.  I won't even mention the looks.  So what if its a "safe car".  How often do I crash up?
2013-08-22 12:57:30 PM
1 votes:
Create new company, sell franchises to new company, have franchise sell cars in Texas, tell Texas to suck it.


/ was that so hard?
2013-08-22 12:54:42 PM
1 votes:
You would think that a "news" article would have at least covered the legal reasoning behind the ban. Maybe the author could have written a short explanation of what the franchise law is? Sounds like an anti-trust measure, but that would be stupid.
2013-08-22 12:53:46 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: Therion: "If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.

I'm guessing that since being a Texas legislator is a part time job, most legislators are car salesmen in the 8 or so months they have off. Most likely used car salesmen.


They only work 4 months every two years.

Most are lawyers.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 12:51:11 PM
1 votes:
TEXAS IS THE AYN RAND LAND OF COMPETITION!

Texas sucks ass.  Whoever wins the auction makes the laws. What a joke.
2013-08-22 12:37:54 PM
1 votes:

Therion: "If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.


Once again, an example of small government conservatism staying true to their ideals!
2013-08-22 12:15:06 PM
1 votes:
Just change their name to "Jesusmobile" and they will sell double-wide fold-out chairs down here...
2013-08-22 11:57:05 AM
1 votes:
"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

imageshack.us
2013-08-22 11:43:04 AM
1 votes:
I was behind a Model S on the way in to work this morning

/nice ride
//too nice for Texas, anyway
 
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