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(Yahoo)   Texas bans sales of Tesla cars, because Fark you   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 363
    More: Obvious, Texas, Fark, Motor Trend  
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20187 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:49 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-23 09:29:41 AM

2farknfunny: If only you had internet access, you could try these things called "search engines"

[snip]

Ooh, you sure told me.

As did the guy before you, and the guy before him, and...

Look.  The point was, I was responding to a guy who was obliquely making the claim that electric cars won't do anything to reduce oil consumption because they run on electricity made by burning oil. Efficiencies of scale and other reasons which show that the claim would be false even if most electricity was generated by burning oil aside, the point it that oil is a negligible fraction of electricity production in the US.

I get that I overstated my case.  Thanks to all of you who pointed that out.  But let's be fair: citing the existence of a handful of dual-fuel facilities isn't exactly making the case that oil is a primary, or even major source of electrical production, is it?

Which was the point of my complaint: the original claim was bogus.

We now return you to the standard programming of snark and trolling.
 
2013-08-23 09:42:55 AM

OgreMagi: MerelyFoolish: Anyone who lives in Texas and votes for an incumbent is an idiot.

FTFY


Agreed.  Being a politician should be a civic duty, not a career.  But this is not the thread to discuss that.

This is the thread to bash my state for being run by a bunch of dumb hicks with beerguts and fat wallets from the dealership kickbacks trying to suppress a more progressive sales model.

It's a shame we also have one of the best-developed tech sectors in North America.

I always thought that the Isetta was a gag car.  I mean the stock 2-stroke engine could only get up to 47 MPH, and had a 0-30 in 30.  Maybe it had a niche in denser Old World cities, but in the American sprawl, it's a joke, and possibly a deathtrap.  It was played for laughs as the Urkelmobile on Family Matters, for crying out loud.
 
2013-08-23 09:49:48 AM

Firethorn: But because it only matters to state law, the IRS doesn't care.


You could hardly be more wrong.

You're confining your analysis to "income".  But "income" is not the only taxable event out there.  The IRS also is concerned about "transfer": Hence, the Gift Tax, the Estate Tax, Tariffs, etc.

Trust me, the IRS would be most interested in the proposed money-laundering scheme.
 
2013-08-23 10:14:47 AM

Smidge204: dragonfire77: Build capacitance into the grid. Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.

No, you don't want to add "capacitance." That would be rather bad for an AC system. You just need storage, which can be implemented at any level at any scale you care to do.


PerilousApricot: Flywheels? No, same problem. You can only make them so big and so fast before the centripetal force pulls them apart.

Flywheels are actually very good for this: They are relatively cheap and fast to react.

[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 401x296]

Each one of those blue things is a cap to a flywheel containment bunker and contains one of these:

[news.heartland.org image 350x220]

Each flywheel stores 25kWh of energy and can deliver that energy at a rate of 100kW. It's actually a pretty good system for stability regulation - just not for bulk storage.
=Smidge=


The "not for bulk storage" part is what I was trying to get at, but I must've done a bad job at explaining it.

YES, I know that there are ways to smooth out temporary mismatches in supply/demand. We've been doing it for a long time. The original (way up top) post suggested that "adding capacitors" would solve the problem of rolling blackouts, which is a completely different ballgame just because of the enormous scales involved.
 
2013-08-23 10:21:28 AM

Saberus Terras: OgreMagi: MerelyFoolish: Anyone who lives in Texas and votes for an incumbent is an idiot.

FTFY

Agreed.  Being a politician should be a civic duty, not a career.  But this is not the thread to discuss that.

This is the thread to bash my state for being run by a bunch of dumb hicks with beerguts and fat wallets from the dealership kickbacks trying to suppress a more progressive sales model.

It's a shame we also have one of the best-developed tech sectors in North America.

I always thought that the Isetta was a gag car.  I mean the stock 2-stroke engine could only get up to 47 MPH, and had a 0-30 in 30.  Maybe it had a niche in denser Old World cities, but in the American sprawl, it's a joke, and possibly a deathtrap.  It was played for laughs as the Urkelmobile on Family Matters, for crying out loud.


BMW's versions of the Isetta were powered by four-stroke BMW motorcycle engines. Their top speed ranged from 55mph for the smallest 250cc model up to 65mph for the largest 600cc twin-cylinder model. Not too bad if you consider that at the time a VW topped out at about 60mph.

As for being a death trap, you're right; it probably was. In fairness, though, just about every car of the time, big or small, was a death trap.
 
2013-08-23 11:16:33 AM

PerilousApricot: Smidge204: dragonfire77: Build capacitance into the grid. Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.

No, you don't want to add "capacitance." That would be rather bad for an AC system. You just need storage, which can be implemented at any level at any scale you care to do.


PerilousApricot: Flywheels? No, same problem. You can only make them so big and so fast before the centripetal force pulls them apart.

Flywheels are actually very good for this: They are relatively cheap and fast to react.

[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 401x296]

Each one of those blue things is a cap to a flywheel containment bunker and contains one of these:

[news.heartland.org image 350x220]

Each flywheel stores 25kWh of energy and can deliver that energy at a rate of 100kW. It's actually a pretty good system for stability regulation - just not for bulk storage.
=Smidge=

The "not for bulk storage" part is what I was trying to get at, but I must've done a bad job at explaining it.

YES, I know that there are ways to smooth out temporary mismatches in supply/demand. We've been doing it for a long time. The original (way up top) post suggested that "adding capacitors" would solve the problem of rolling blackouts, which is a completely different ballgame just because of the enormous scales involved.



Capacitors are used in the grid.  At the tail end of long rural circuits, to keep the phase angles from getting out of synch when a motor (inductive load) kicks in.
 
2013-08-23 11:32:15 AM

waterrockets: the money is in the banana stand:
So then what would you expect is reasonable to pay for that work? It cost them $8.33 and parts and labor. Do you only expect then to pay $9 or $10? If it is such an easy procedure, why don't you do it? Why not take it to a mechanic for a lower price and compare numbers? You have to realize that while inflated I must say, that a lot of that service charge is for convenience. During that time, you may be offered a complimentary vehicle while your vehicle is repaired, breakfast or snacks, somewhere located conveniently nearby, you will get emails and/or phone calls when the work is done, your car may be washed after, etc. Many of the times it isn't "just" repairing a part. There is a lot there in terms of cost and overhead that you are paying for and if they itemized that out and let you pick and choose the services you received in order to get the cheapest price, that seems like a great idea - but what you end up with is Ryan Air.

This is all irrelevant to my point that dealer service is a profitable business, in general. That said, I did do the work myself...

Kraftwerk Orange: I'm not saying it's a charity - I'm saying it's a necessary part of the Dealership model.  Dealers *have* to have a Service Dept., it's part of the conditions of being granted a Dealership license.

Tesla, OTOH, doesn't want to have to have a service department at every location, which is why they're challenging the current Dealership laws.  Tesla wants to cut costs by having a centralized service location that is separate geographically from where they sell the cars, rather than at *every* location that sells their cars.

I could guarantee you that many large franchise groups (like Hendrick here in the Carolinas) would love to be able to centralize their service departments.  As it stands, the same owner has nearly half a dozen different service departs within a mile of each other (one for BMW, one for Volvo, one for GM, one for Dodge, one for Hyundai).    M ...


That's because I never disagreed that the service department was profitable.  My point was that a Service Department has a large overhead cost, to keep it running.  If a Dealer doesn't regularly spend large sums of money to continually upgrade and improve their service department, they will loose out on a very profitable part of their business.  Kind of like the fellow above who took his Mercedes to a Mercedes Dealer who had a bad service department that had no idea how to fix a mirror.

I still assert that Tesla would rather centralize their service departments, to minimize the capital cost of having a service department at each location that currently sells their vehicles - which is what the law requires a new car Dealer to have in order to be granted a Dealership license.  That's why Tesla has "Stores", not "Dealerships"; they can't legally be called Dealerships because they don't have a service department.
 
2013-08-23 11:54:45 AM

Deucednuisance: You're confining your analysis to "income". But "income" is not the only taxable event out there. The IRS also is concerned about "transfer": Hence, the Gift Tax, the Estate Tax, Tariffs, etc.

Trust me, the IRS would be most interested in the proposed money-laundering scheme.


1.  Gift, estate tax is for unilateral transfers which are effectively income.  The theoretical transfers Musk makes aren't unilateral.  The Fed.gov doesn't have a sales tax, ergo Musk paying retail for a Tesla that he then sells back for retail* is very much not unilateral, thus no gift tax(the transfers aren't gifts) and no estate taxes because nobody died, no Tariffs because there's no intercountry commerce going on, etc...  Until you can identify a tax that the IRS manages that would be involved in said transactions, I'm going to continue my statement:  The IRS won't care.
2.  It's not actually a money-laundering scheme either.  It's a definition laundering scheme.  As there are no IRS taxable transactions in the process, I'll repeat:  the IRS doesn't care.  It's not IRS regulations that are being violated or evaded.

*Or near enough to make no difference.

In short, you couldn't be more wrong, because 100% of your posting is incorrect.
 
2013-08-23 12:23:22 PM

Firethorn: In short, you couldn't be more wrong, because 100% of your posting is incorrect.


Well, Counselor, that's like, your opinion, man.

Personally, I wouldn't run with that ball if you handed it to me.  And I doubt very much that Musk will, either. But three yards and a cloud of dust, if that's your thing.
 
2013-08-23 12:38:09 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Dinki: Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.

And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.

Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.

And it ain't the American Flag.


The browneye flag is indeed loved by all the initiated.
 
2013-08-23 02:04:39 PM
Deucednuisance: Personally, I wouldn't run with that ball if you handed it to me.  And I doubt very much that Musk will, either. But three yards and a cloud of dust, if that's your thing.

Ah, I think I see the problem now.  You think I was actually serious about the proposal, while I was only pointing out that the IRS, a specific government agency, wouldn't care.

Reread my posts in that context and they should make much more sense.  I never said that there wouldn't be OTHER government agencies that would have an interest in said plan.  Especially any state enforcement agencies, but that's where lawyers would get involved.
 
2013-08-23 03:26:43 PM

Voiceofreason01: Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.

you get to tax the dealer when they buy the car and again when they sell it.


From what I understand, the dealers don't actually buy the cars.  they partner with a bank which actually forks the money over to the manufacturer in exchange for prefferential consideration when financing the cars.  The dealer effectively gets a 90 day or so grace period before they start making payments to the bank on the car.  That is why they want to get older cars off the lot first.  Effectively if they turn over fast enough, they never pay for the inventory.

On the back side, the bank offers them a kick back on the interest rate they get to charge the customer.  Lets say you qualify for a 2.5% rate, the dealer congratulates you for qualifying for a 4% rate and splits the difference with the bank (or maybe gets to keep the difference.
 
2013-08-23 10:11:01 PM

FrancoFile: PerilousApricot: Smidge204: dragonfire77: Build capacitance into the grid. Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.

No, you don't want to add "capacitance." That would be rather bad for an AC system. You just need storage, which can be implemented at any level at any scale you care to do.


PerilousApricot: Flywheels? No, same problem. You can only make them so big and so fast before the centripetal force pulls them apart.

Flywheels are actually very good for this: They are relatively cheap and fast to react.

[gigaom2.files.wordpress.com image 401x296]

Each one of those blue things is a cap to a flywheel containment bunker and contains one of these:

[news.heartland.org image 350x220]

Each flywheel stores 25kWh of energy and can deliver that energy at a rate of 100kW. It's actually a pretty good system for stability regulation - just not for bulk storage.
=Smidge=

The "not for bulk storage" part is what I was trying to get at, but I must've done a bad job at explaining it.

YES, I know that there are ways to smooth out temporary mismatches in supply/demand. We've been doing it for a long time. The original (way up top) post suggested that "adding capacitors" would solve the problem of rolling blackouts, which is a completely different ballgame just because of the enormous scales involved.


Capacitors are used in the grid.  At the tail end of long rural circuits, to keep the phase angles from getting out of synch when a motor (inductive load) kicks in.


Not only that, they are widely used in large bulk power stations now for voltage control. Inductive loads tend to cause the voltage to sag; countering these with capacitive reactance boosts the voltage. They used to use rolling masses called "condensers" to provide reactive power support, but they were high maintenance.  The must-have power hardware these days includes "static VAr compensators," electronic devices that can switch capacitors or inductors in and out at will, allowing for almost real-time voltage control in a region.
 
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