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(Yahoo)   Texas bans sales of Tesla cars, because Fark you   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 363
    More: Obvious, Texas, Fark, Motor Trend  
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20191 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 03:00:09 PM

Cyberluddite: IRQ12: I bought a scratcher ticket for 2$ and got 20$ back. Both have about the same amount to do with the success of the car/company.

True enough. The facts that (1) there's so much demand that  they can't make their $100K cars fast enough to come even close to sastifying the current market demand (meaning that there is a waiting list of several months for buyer, and all of the people on it have plunked down $5000 in advance just to get a spot on the waiting list), and buyers can, if they choose to (and few choose to) resell their car on Craigslist for more than the price they paid for it new to people who don't want to wait their turn on the waiting list; (2) the car received the highest rating any car has ever received from Consumer Reports, and has received universal praise from reviewers and multiple "Car of the Year" awards from car publications; and (3) the car just received the NTSB's higest ever crash-test results for any car ever test, all do speak to the success of the car/company.

Plus, having driven them myself, I can attest that the car is farking incredibly.  The best car I've ever driven, and I've driven plenty of very, very nice cars over the years.


Yes, it's a great car and I am equally impressed with it.  In a rational world that should equal success but unfortunately it doesn't usually work out that way.  Irrational exuberance is never good for new companies/products.

The successful car will probably be some 1/2 ass knock off made by GM.  Americans have long ago abandoned quality for quantity.
 
2013-08-22 03:00:17 PM

Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.


It's a luxury car company until it isn't a luxury car company anymore.
 
2013-08-22 03:00:58 PM

IRQ12: Cyberluddite: IRQ12: I bought a scratcher ticket for 2$ and got 20$ back. Both have about the same amount to do with the success of the car/company.

True enough. The facts that (1) there's so much demand that  they can't make their $100K cars fast enough to come even close to sastifying the current market demand (meaning that there is a waiting list of several months for buyer, and all of the people on it have plunked down $5000 in advance just to get a spot on the waiting list), and buyers can, if they choose to (and few choose to) resell their car on Craigslist for more than the price they paid for it new to people who don't want to wait their turn on the waiting list; (2) the car received the highest rating any car has ever received from Consumer Reports, and has received universal praise from reviewers and multiple "Car of the Year" awards from car publications; and (3) the car just received the NTSB's higest ever crash-test results for any car ever test, all do speak to the success of the car/company.

Plus, having driven them myself, I can attest that the car is farking incredibly.  The best car I've ever driven, and I've driven plenty of very, very nice cars over the years.

Yes, it's a great car and I am equally impressed with it.  In a rational world that should equal success but unfortunately it doesn't usually work out that way.  Irrational exuberance is never good for new companies/products.

The successful car will probably be some 1/2 ass knock off made by GM.  Americans have long ago abandoned quality for quantity.


How is it irrational?
 
2013-08-22 03:07:46 PM
Made in the USA -- so fark that, lets ban it because we're patriots.
 
2013-08-22 03:09:06 PM
So, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and New Mexico need to build Tesla stores right on the border. Maybe if Tesla vehicles got popular enough, Texas would feel the loss of revenue and revisit its ridiculous franchise law. Right now it is really a nonissue since they won't sell too many in Texas anyway. Maybe in Austin they would.
 
2013-08-22 03:09:07 PM

Infernalist: Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.

It's a luxury car company until it isn't a luxury car company anymore.


Yup, Tesla is only a luxury car company now because it's easier to start out that way.  Fixing this broken law will help them reach regular consumers more quickly.
 
2013-08-22 03:11:24 PM

lendog: Do I think the law in Texas is good?  I don't know.  I do know that Jeremy Clarkson didn't car for a Tesla a few years ago and that is all I need to know.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/05/top-gear-tesla-jeremy-c la rkson


That model wasn't the Tesla S and technology has moved on since 2008.  The only lessons that can be drawn from that test are that five years ago the original Tesla wasn't designed to be used on a racetrack and that the range of any vehicle is drastically reduced when it is raced. How relevant is that information ?

I enjoy watching Clarkson and Top Gear because it's an entertaining show. On the other hand, the opinions of anybody who thinks some of the world's least reliable cars (Aston Martin) are fantastic, or who believes Range Rovers with their ridiculous reliability issues are the world's best 4x4s, can safely be discounted for being heavily biased.
 
2013-08-22 03:14:08 PM

IRQ12: The successful car will probably be some 1/2 ass knock off made by GM. Americans have long ago abandoned quality for quantity

feasibility.

The average American can't afford a $100k car, given that the median household income is something like $50k/year.  I'm sure most people would rather have a high-quality car, but first they need to worry about having a car at all.
 
2013-08-22 03:15:33 PM

reillan: Although it sounds like a Tesla should never die, based on how unbelievably amazing all of its scores (read: press) have been.


Would a car that cannot die be something like a ship that cannot sink?
 
2013-08-22 03:17:18 PM

serial_crusher: Infernalist: Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.

It's a luxury car company until it isn't a luxury car company anymore.

Yup, Tesla is only a luxury car company now because it's easier to start out that way.  Fixing this broken law will help them reach regular consumers more quickly.


Screw the law.  They're getting to the point where they can simply side-step Texas and any other state that wants to continue betting on a dying industry.
 
2013-08-22 03:22:41 PM

Infernalist: Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.

It's a luxury car company until it isn't a luxury car company anymore.


Indeed. Tesla's stated plans are to launch the X model SUV in 2014, followed by the development of a $30k car. Selling the expensive cars is a necessary step on the way to financing a future cheaper model.
 
2013-08-22 03:22:48 PM

whosits_112: happydude45: Nhojwolfe: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

I also remember reading about this from Newyork as well.

But lets all focus on Texas

I, for one, think it is cute how all of the jealous non-Texans react to our state. Funny as hell.

What's there to be jealous of? I live here, and I can tell you, Texas is nothing to be proud of, son. It's like you are saying that the kids making fun of the 'tard are jealous of the 'tard. Yeah, it's so f*cking awesome to be able to count to potato!


Well, besides being the greatest state in the union and all....
 
2013-08-22 03:23:03 PM
So Musk is declaring war on car dealers, but car dealers are also declaring war on Musk. They have already successfully booted him out of Texas and there is anti-Tesla legislation pending in North Carolina, Colorado and Virginia.

"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

Like the auto franchise system has any integrity.  The ONLY reason that law exists is to stifle competition.
 
2013-08-22 03:23:16 PM
Eh, I don't envision a time in my lifetime when electric cars are reasonably priced.  I think it's far more likely we'll enter a phase where states war against each other in battery dumping conflicts.
 
2013-08-22 03:23:37 PM
If the argument for dealerships is "service" then it's a total failure and should be dismantled.

A) Repair services - are generally terrible, slow, overpriced.  Only purpose would be extremely complicated problems that only the true expert for that make of car can handle - and that is where the MANUFACTURER is best placed to provide that service from a limited selection of special service centers.

B) Sales - I get that Chevy or Toyota make cars, and don't need a host of salesmen on staff.  Unfortunately the reality of it is that dealerships don't help with sales.  They get in the way of sales.  They lie, cheat, and intimidate their way to sales.  If a car manufacturer wants to control the customer service on sales, they should do it themselves, otherwise you get some slimeball giving you a con-job.
 
2013-08-22 03:23:57 PM

Voiceofreason01: Dr Dreidel: Voiceofreason01: The franchise law is bullshiat legislation that does very little besides screw consumers

For those of us ignorant of such things (and who don't want to search teh googles ourselves), can you 'splain?

// EXplanation > MANsplanation, but whatever you got

car manufacturers are prohibited by law from selling cars directly to the public and you cannot sell cars online. Basically the law only exists to bring extra tax revenue into the State and support dealerships.


That's what I was looking for, thanks.

// FTR, I am a dude, but I'm told that things called "slashies" often contain "humor"
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 03:31:39 PM
I don't think anyone should overthink this.

This is because the correct amount of money did or did not change hands.

It looks a little like India and Greece where nothing gets done without bribing an official (or something, like a law like this, DOES get done because of a bribe).

Texas is corrupt.
 
2013-08-22 03:34:54 PM

happydude45: whosits_112: happydude45: Nhojwolfe: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

I also remember reading about this from Newyork as well.

But lets all focus on Texas

I, for one, think it is cute how all of the jealous non-Texans react to our state. Funny as hell.

What's there to be jealous of? I live here, and I can tell you, Texas is nothing to be proud of, son. It's like you are saying that the kids making fun of the 'tard are jealous of the 'tard. Yeah, it's so f*cking awesome to be able to count to potato!

Well, besides being the greatest state in the union and all....


Small government, my ass.
 
2013-08-22 03:39:35 PM

Infernalist: The Irresponsible Captain: It's protectionism and only serves to line the pockets of fat cats.

It's not like any auto dealer has a monopoly on cars and needs to be regulated. I say open it up to the free market.

What it's protecting is the network of car dealers across the state of Texas.  Are they fat cats?  I don't know.  I do know that most of the car dealers I've ever dealt with were scum sucking bottom feeders, so it's hard for me to find any sympathy for their industry.

At most, I can simply suggest that they try to get some night classes in before their industry disappears.


One major fat cat.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_McCombs
 
2013-08-22 03:42:16 PM
Sounds really bootstrappy, what with all the protections for existing layers of middlemen and all.
 
2013-08-22 03:44:47 PM
Yep.  What I thought.  The same reason most industries have regulations.  Not to protect safety or the environment, though that is the standard excused used to get the laws passed.  It's to protect the established businesses from competition.
 
2013-08-22 03:49:20 PM

Apik0r0s: Sounds really bootstrappy, what with all the protections for existing layers of middlemen and all.


I agree.  We should just be able to buy our cars straight from the makers, at the prices they choose in order to maximize their own profit.  We should also be happy to put down a deposit, and wait several months while our car is custom-built, because picking one right off the lot is an obvious waste of economic resources on the automaker's part.
 
2013-08-22 03:50:18 PM
Now explain to me how the triple tier system helps out the liquor consumer.
 
2013-08-22 03:52:17 PM

chrisco123: Dinki

 How does one become a professional auto expert?  Sounds like a great imaginary job.


Wow.  I am 37% dumber for having read this comment.
 
2013-08-22 03:53:14 PM

Ker_Thwap: IRQ12: Ker_Thwap: Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.

A virtual ban is a ban.  "We're not banning your product we are just making it virtually impossible to compete."


Tesla may not be a success but Musk has done a great service to the country by showing people that these "too big to fail" companies have basically written laws that state:  "too small to succeed".

I'd be a lot more concerned about this if it weren't a luxury car that's covered here.  It's pretty much just millionaire problems right now.  If anyone wants to revise the law for the mass market, I'm fine with that.


It would seem like that on the surface but these problems are anti-competition laws and would affect a like upstart selling cheap cars.
 
2013-08-22 03:55:30 PM
It's certainly not stopping the sale of Teslas. I've seen lots of them driving around Austin. Besides, if I want one then I can just go to California or any other state that sells them, buy it, pay their sales taxes, then drive it back to Texas. They can't prevent me from registering it. And Texas loses out on a sales tax opportunity. I don't think Tesla will be losing out though. The article says that only 20,000 have been sold. That's still $1.5B in sales. And I can easily see Tesla prevailing in any legal battles that might stem from this.
 
2013-08-22 03:57:10 PM
The car makers and car dealers see Tesla and direct sales the same way the music industry saw the .mp3 format and online music.

They're trying to kill the new ideas the very same way by legally stomping them out.

History has shown that this will fail.

History has also shown that, for those willing to change their thinking, there are fortunes to be made on this new frontier.
 
2013-08-22 03:57:24 PM
It isn't like anyone can actually buy a Tesla anyway.  You just end up on a waiting list.  These cars are sold to people who really REALLY want one- not someone who needs a car yesterday.  Franchise laws won't stop these buyers.

That all said, they are a great bargain here--- petroleum based vehicles have a 100% tax here in Norway, and there are toll roads everywhere.  Teslas are tax free, toll free, free charging around town.  I know several people on waiting lists.  I would consider one myself.  Much better than a Leaf.
 
2013-08-22 03:57:52 PM
Chronyism on the state level.. just as bad as Chronyism on the federal level.
 
2013-08-22 03:58:12 PM
fark the franchises, these are bullshiat laws anyway. Car dealer salesmen are the #2 reason I never have and likely never will buy a new car. The #1 reason being I prefer to let some other schmuck take the huge depreciation hit and since I enjoy working on cars and have the cash to pay for parts or buy another car if something major breaks so warranties are useless to me.
 
2013-08-22 04:01:18 PM
Just one more reason for me to hate this stupid state I'm stuck in...
 
2013-08-22 04:03:20 PM

Infernalist: IRQ12: Cyberluddite: IRQ12: I bought a scratcher ticket for 2$ and got 20$ back. Both have about the same amount to do with the success of the car/company.

True enough. The facts that (1) there's so much demand that  they can't make their $100K cars fast enough to come even close to sastifying the current market demand (meaning that there is a waiting list of several months for buyer, and all of the people on it have plunked down $5000 in advance just to get a spot on the waiting list), and buyers can, if they choose to (and few choose to) resell their car on Craigslist for more than the price they paid for it new to people who don't want to wait their turn on the waiting list; (2) the car received the highest rating any car has ever received from Consumer Reports, and has received universal praise from reviewers and multiple "Car of the Year" awards from car publications; and (3) the car just received the NTSB's higest ever crash-test results for any car ever test, all do speak to the success of the car/company.

Plus, having driven them myself, I can attest that the car is farking incredibly.  The best car I've ever driven, and I've driven plenty of very, very nice cars over the years.

Yes, it's a great car and I am equally impressed with it.  In a rational world that should equal success but unfortunately it doesn't usually work out that way.  Irrational exuberance is never good for new companies/products.

The successful car will probably be some 1/2 ass knock off made by GM.  Americans have long ago abandoned quality for quantity.

How is it irrational?


The P&E for Tesla is 704, GM and Ford are ~10-11.

If you don't know P&E is share price/profit.  Yes, there will be a much higher ratio for an upstart with good numbers but that is ridiculous.
 
2013-08-22 04:05:47 PM

Deedeemarz: So, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and New Mexico need to build Tesla stores right on the border. Maybe if Tesla vehicles got popular enough, Texas would feel the loss of revenue and revisit its ridiculous franchise law. Right now it is really a nonissue since they won't sell too many in Texas anyway. Maybe in Austin they would.


I have seen at least 20 of these here in Houston. The problem with Tesla currently is the cost and the fact that it is a luxury vehicle. On top of that, there aren't many charging stations available currently. It has nothing to do with Texas being "anti-green".
 
2013-08-22 04:08:56 PM
www.hangthebankers.com
GTFO Texas

Nobody ever liked you in the union anyhow... please... secede already!
farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2013-08-22 04:10:15 PM
I just used the Tesla "True Cost of Ownership" which is supposed to show you how affordable it really is.

When you factor in everything, the model S will only cost me about the same P&I for my house.

What a deal!
 
2013-08-22 04:13:16 PM

waterrockets: HeadKase: There are quite a few of these in Austin already.  Love the Model S.

+1 I've seen as many as 5 unique Model S Teslas in the same day here.

I hate living so close to Texas. You know?


A nice little blueberry in the cherry pie
 
2013-08-22 04:13:37 PM

Doubletwist-: Just one more reason for me to hate this stupid state I'm stuck in...


Stuck here cuz of your...job...?
 
2013-08-22 04:17:16 PM
Interesting... It seems as though Texas and Elon have a bit of a love hate relationship right now.  On one hand Elon wants to build a new spaceport to handle commercial space launches on the southern tip of Texas, and Texas legislatures are practically falling all over themselves trying to pave the way for it to happen.  On the other hand Texas is blocking him from selling his cars in the state...
 
2013-08-22 04:23:44 PM

Maul555: Interesting... It seems as though Texas and Elon have a bit of a love hate relationship right now.  On one hand Elon wants to build a new spaceport to handle commercial space launches on the southern tip of Texas, and Texas legislatures are practically falling all over themselves trying to pave the way for it to happen.  On the other hand Texas is blocking him from selling his cars in the state...


Which is why instead of saying Derp Texas, I would rather people discuss the franchise system. I am curious of the what the arguments for the current system are that prohibits Tesla from owning their own dealerships. It very well maybe stupid and backwoodsy, but instead of people automatically jumping to conclusions and going along with something blindly, how about some discussion here. I already stated earlier that I live here and while this does not make sense to me, I am not a part of that industry. Any information is helpful.
 
2013-08-22 04:25:49 PM
For the record, there is nothing Libertarian about texas, they want big government controlled by the GOP, kinda like California. They want big government controlled by the Dems. Both fight to keep the status quo of keeping the people and companies happy, as long as they contribute to there re-election funds.
 
2013-08-22 04:26:54 PM

Voiceofreason01: Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.

you get to tax the dealer when they buy the car and again when they sell it.


Not true. Cars are not subject to regular sales tax in Texas and is much less at 6.25%.
 
2013-08-22 04:29:32 PM

dmaestaz: For the record, there is nothing Libertarian about texas, they want big government controlled by the GOP, kinda like California. They want big government controlled by the Dems. Both fight to keep the status quo of keeping the people and companies happy, as long as they contribute to there re-election funds.


Bold statements made about an entire state. I don't want that. I live in Texas. I have plenty of conservative friends and most don't want the government controlling most aspects of their life. Even my liberal friends here would rather the government butt out of their business. While the aspects of life that the government butts out of may be different between the two groups, I can very much assure you that "all of Texas" does not think alike. We are a very big state with an extremely diverse population. Then again, I know that contradicts everything you were ever told of Texas or read here on Fark. Have fun continuing believing everything the media tells you.
 
2013-08-22 04:44:50 PM

NostroZ: [www.hangthebankers.com image 386x386]
GTFO Texas

Nobody ever liked you in the union anyhow... please... secede already!
[farm8.staticflickr.com image 640x477]


Huh, in that first pic, I never really realized how much Texas looks like a UFIA. Kind of appropriate, it seems.
 
2013-08-22 04:48:49 PM

the money is in the banana stand: For those that feel that buying directly from the manufacturer is a good deal and do not understand having to pay a middle man:

I do not own a car dealership, but I own a dealership in another industry. Most people are thoroughly confused and feel like they are being taken advantage of having to pay "extra" money and pay a middle-man to get their product. Most consumers see the product and nothing else. The critical element that dealerships in general bring to the table is service. Depending the product, the service element can actually be more important than the product itself. In our industry, manufacturers historically, tried to own and operate their own dealerships. They failed, miserably. There are a variety of reasons why they failed, but most importantly is that they are great at understanding the bigger picture and products, but do not understand specific markets and service on a local level. There is no law to state manufacturers in our industry cannot own their own dealership, however almost none do so because the amount of service work and process of procurement is far more complicated than most people would ever imagine. There are plenty of companies that specialize in parts of our process and contract just those services out and do not sell any product. That is great and all, but consumers just don't see the value of service by-and-large. They don't want and are not willing to spend anything on service, but understand getting a superior product. You WILL have to pay for the service even if you don't see it. If the manufacturer owns the dealership and you require any service, you will pay for that in mark-up or margin due to the overhead.

It is a tricky situation and I am not sure why car dealerships are any different than our industry. I am not sure why manufacturers cannot own their own dealerships. They do not in our industry not because they cannot, but because that it just doesn't work.


At least in your industry they have the choice available to them. And I suspect that the ones that don't use a dealer and sell direct, either figure out how to service in their given areas, or they lose business to other manufacturers/dealerships who do provide good service.

I say let Tesla [and any other car manufacturer] sell direct. Either they will manage to provide good price and good service to their customers, or their customers will start going somewhere else.

I'm not a proponent of totally free market in all cases or anything. I just don't think there's a good enough reason to have this kind of regulation on the auto market.
 
2013-08-22 04:50:52 PM

the money is in the banana stand: dmaestaz: For the record, there is nothing Libertarian about texas, they want big government controlled by the GOP, kinda like California. They want big government controlled by the Dems. Both fight to keep the status quo of keeping the people and companies happy, as long as they contribute to there re-election funds.

Bold statements made about an entire state. I don't want that. I live in Texas. I have plenty of conservative friends and most don't want the government controlling most aspects of their life. Even my liberal friends here would rather the government butt out of their business. While the aspects of life that the government butts out of may be different between the two groups, I can very much assure you that "all of Texas" does not think alike. We are a very big state with an extremely diverse population. Then again, I know that contradicts everything you were ever told of Texas or read here on Fark. Have fun continuing believing everything the media tells you.


Look, I'm sorry, you sound like a decent enough sort. But Texas, on the whole, is just too much of a pain in the ass to put up with. It's nothing personal. Texas, when weighed using an objective risk/cost/benefit analysis, is found severely wanting. Your state, taken in the very rough dose it is, is really a total piece of retrogressive sh*t to everyone outside your borders. We don't like you, we don't want you, and the sooner you secede the better.
 
2013-08-22 04:52:49 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: Apik0r0s: Sounds really bootstrappy, what with all the protections for existing layers of middlemen and all.

I agree.  We should just be able to buy our cars straight from the makers, at the prices they choose in order to maximize their own profit.  We should also be happy to put down a deposit, and wait several months while our car is custom-built, because picking one right off the lot is an obvious waste of economic resources on the automaker's part.


You should be happy to do business with any auto purveyor you like. If I want to put down a deposit and wait, I should be able to do so.

Of course, lord knows that a traditional car salesman has never been known to ask for a deposit to go along with an offer, right?

Kraftwerk Orange: Barfmaker: So is Tesla saying they'll have dealerships but the dealerships will be owned by Tesla? I guess what I'm axing is, what's the difference between a dealer and a store? And more to the point, if I bought one, where would I take it to get it fixed?

A Dealership is typically required to provide service to their customers.  A Store isn't.  Hence, a Store can offer lower costs, because they don't have that whole extra service department and its overhead.

Dealers are also required by law to have the actual vehicle they advertise in their possession.  A Store can advertise a vehicle, and then tell you you have to order it yourself.


Go price a strut replacement at any manufacturer's dealership you like. Now go price the parts and watch the youtube video to DIY. Still think service is an overhead cost? My Acura dealership exists almost solely to get cars on the road for trumped up maintenance costs.

I just replaced my MDX's rear diff oil for $25 out of pocket (including Acura brand diff oil at $6.50/qt.), in just 15 minutes from unbagging the pump to washing my hands. Dealership price: $170. Acura customers are not so price sensitive, and most will see a $650 maintenance estimate, wince a little, then pull out the credit card and not worry about it for another 6 months and the next service.
 
2013-08-22 05:00:13 PM

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.  I drove a Tesla from NYC to Montreal and had to stop three times to charge the bastard.  Combine that with acceleration that feels like an elastic that never snaps and you have a crappy car.  I won't even mention the looks.  So what if its a "safe car".  How often do I crash up?


370 miles from NYC to Montreal. Tesla has never delivered a base Model S, so the range estimate is 208 miles. If you had to recharge 3 times, you had a broken one.

As for acceleration, 0-60 in 5.9 seconds is slow? What do you normally drive, an Aventador?
 
2013-08-22 05:05:53 PM

the money is in the banana stand: For those that feel that buying directly from the manufacturer is a good deal and do not understand having to pay a middle man:

I do not own a car dealership, but I own a dealership in another industry. Most people are thoroughly confused and feel like they are being taken advantage of having to pay "extra" money and pay a middle-man to get their product. Most consumers see the product and nothing else. The critical element that dealerships in general bring to the table is service. Depending the product, the service element can actually be more important than the product itself. In our industry, manufacturers historically, tried to own and operate their own dealerships. They failed, miserably. There are a variety of reasons why they failed, but most importantly is that they are great at understanding the bigger picture and products, but do not understand specific markets and service on a local level. There is no law to state manufacturers in our industry cannot own their own dealership, however almost none do so because the amount of service work and process of procurement is far more complicated than most people would ever imagine. There are plenty of companies that specialize in parts of our process and contract just those services out and do not sell any product. That is great and all, but consumers just don't see the value of service by-and-large. They don't want and are not willing to spend anything on service, but understand getting a superior product. You WILL have to pay for the service even if you don't see it. If the manufacturer owns the dealership and you require any service, you will pay for that in mark-up or margin due to the overhead.

It is a tricky situation and I am not sure why car dealerships are any different than our industry. I am not sure why manufacturers cannot own their own dealerships. They do not in our industry not because they cannot, but because that it just doesn't work.


You say all that, but why exactly does the price of service have to be so deeply obfuscated in the up front price of the product?

Basically:
s3.amazonaws.com
s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-08-22 05:08:43 PM

filter: It isn't like anyone can actually buy a Tesla anyway.  You just end up on a waiting list.  These cars are sold to people who really REALLY want one- not someone who needs a car yesterday.  Franchise laws won't stop these buyers.

That all said, they are a great bargain here--- petroleum based vehicles have a 100% tax here in Norway, and there are toll roads everywhere.  Teslas are tax free, toll free, free charging around town.  I know several people on waiting lists.  I would consider one myself.  Much better than a Leaf.


Of course it's better than a Leaf. It better be for more than twice the price.

My Leaf is still the best car I've ever owned, though. Would I rather have a Model S? Absolutely. I wouldn't trade my Leaf for any ICE car I've ever driven, though.
 
2013-08-22 05:10:08 PM
If they  do not use petroleum based fuels we do not want them here!   That's what Texas oil  politicians are played to think.
 
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