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(Yahoo)   Texas bans sales of Tesla cars, because Fark you   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 363
    More: Obvious, Texas, Fark, Motor Trend  
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20182 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:49 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 01:20:47 PM

LandOfChocolate: BigNumber12: ampoliros: BigNumber12: Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.

The legislators.


Yes, I kinda figured that legislators were responsible for the creation of a law... can we be a bit more specific?

The automobile dealer associations.  These are lobbying groups at the state level that represent the dealers.  These groups influence the legislators.

In this case, the deck is stacked against Tesla because its impossible for them to have any representation at the state level, in every state.  Thats why they'll probably take this to the feds as the post article I linked above mentioned.



Oh ffs. Yes, I know which groups pushed for the creation of the laws because they stand to gain from those restrictions. I was asking about specific lawmakers who wrote and voted for the legislation.
 
2013-08-22 01:20:55 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I was behind a Model S on the way in to work this morning

/nice ride
//too nice for Texas, anyway


saw the sedan (or as brits call it: a salooooooon) this morning on the way in. was super duper cool.

looked online - is it really only $50k ?  that seems like a steal cause even a crappy kia is near $40
 
2013-08-22 01:21:08 PM

simplicimus: dragonfire77: serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.

Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.

Oil, natural gas run power plants. Electric cars are electric.


I have to believe the profit margins on gasoline are higher, since electricity rates are so much more regulated.
It will be kind of interesting when everybody switches to electric cars though.  We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.
 
2013-08-22 01:21:27 PM

Dinki: simplicimus: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.

Yeah, we are really becoming a third world nation aren't we. Soon enough Tesla will top trying to fight these stupid laws and simply sell all their cars overseas where the real money is.


I think that's the overall GOP plan. If they can't turn the US into a third world country all at once, they have a state by state plan. See what's happening in other GOP controlled states.
 
2013-08-22 01:21:30 PM
The Houston Chronicle today  said 700 Tesla's have either been sold or ordered in Texas, so apparently anybody savvy enough to want one can get one
 
2013-08-22 01:21:45 PM

the money is in the banana stand: I do not own a car dealership, but I own a dealership in another industry. Most people are thoroughly confused and feel like they are being taken advantage of having to pay "extra" money and pay a middle-man to get their product. Most consumers see the product and nothing else. The critical element that dealerships in general bring to the table is service. Depending the product, the service element can actually be more important than the product itself. In our industry, manufacturers historically, tried to own and operate their own dealerships. They failed, miserably. There are a variety of reasons why they failed, but most importantly is that they are great at understanding the bigger picture and products, but do not understand specific markets and service on a local level. There is no law to state manufacturers in our industry cannot own their own dealership, however almost none do so because the amount of service work and process of procurement is far more complicated than most people would ever imagine. There are plenty of companies that specialize in parts of our process and contract just those services out and do not sell any product. That is great and all, but consumers just don't see the value of service by-and-large. They don't want and are not willing to spend anything on service, but understand getting a superior product. You WILL have to pay for the service even if you don't see it. If the manufacturer owns the dealership and you require any service, you will pay for that in mark-up or margin due to the overhead.


Did you read the article?  Thats exactly the service that Tesla wants to provide because the dealers aren't (or will not) do it for them

"We actually train people to educate," explained Musk. "We always wanted to be a really low-key kind of friendly environment, where we're not constantly trying to close deals."

Musk wants to cut them out completely. He thinks customers don't like them and that dealers are prejudiced against electric cars.

"It takes them at least twice as much effort to sell someone an electric car and to educate them as to why an electric car is good," said Musk. "And so if we were to go through the traditional dealer path, the result would be a disaster."
 
2013-08-22 01:21:46 PM
NPR's Planet Money had a great segment on the auto franchise laws, how they came to be, why they aren't going anywhere anytime soon and how they are used to prevent internet car sales, etc.  Good listen if you have the time:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/19/172402376/why-buying-a-car -n ever-changes
(4:27)
 
2013-08-22 01:21:49 PM
We are currently looking to buy a new car, nothing ruins the experience like car dealers, just blatent assholes...
 
2013-08-22 01:22:02 PM

THX 1138: Walliser: Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.

It can occur anywhere.  Conservative lawmakers just have to come up with more interesting justifications for why their actions totally contradict their policies when it happens in their area.


True. I get very frustrated when stated conservatives act like liberals...drives me nuts. Despite the hiccups, its still a good business climate here, and I have no doubt Tesla will figure out how to connect buyers to sellers. No reason to be resentful, but this is fark so you guys flame away and i'll finish my lunch.
 
2013-08-22 01:22:31 PM

Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.


Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.
 
2013-08-22 01:23:06 PM
With every major car company looking for a share of the booming electric car market, the competition to go faster and further for cheaper has become an all-out war.

I stopped reading right there.  How do they write that with a straight face?
 
2013-08-22 01:23:24 PM

This text is now purple: Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players


yeah we can't have manufacturers selling direct to the public

cdn.iphoneincanada.ca

www.winbeta.org
 
2013-08-22 01:23:47 PM

Dinki: Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.

And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.


Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.

And it ain't the American Flag.
 
2013-08-22 01:24:05 PM
All I know is that I get freakin' giddy watching the stock price.

/Squee!  Up 5.65 as of 1:21pm.
 
2013-08-22 01:24:08 PM
States' rights baby. What should be great about America.
 
2013-08-22 01:24:54 PM
Alright, as a Texas Conservative (TM) I have been called a biggot, racist,fascist, redneck, inbred and that was just this morning during the news break.

But when you compare me with a car salesman or dealership YOU HAVE GONE TOO FAR SIR!!
 
2013-08-22 01:25:04 PM

clkeagle: indarwinsshadow: Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

In the Tesla thread the other day, I said that it wouldn't be long before Big Oil finds a way to squish Tesla. I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist, that the Oil CEOs don't give a fark about Tesla, etc.

Leave it to Texas to crush others' faith in humanity.


I've always believed that certain companies will do anything to remain the largest monopoly. Rogers and Bell in Canada have been trying to manipulate the courts, the CRTC and the government for years making sure they have a strangle hold on cell, television, home phone and internet for years and year. Going as far recently as to take out full page ads in some of the largest newspapers trying to convince people that having a player come in from the United States in the cell phone market is bad for Canada. It's laughable, transparent and stupid.
Texas is doing the same thing. They see the future. And they know that it includes electric cars. It scares the crap out of big oil. They'll step up things in the next few years as more and more electric hit the road. But. It's unstoppable as far as I can see when gas is $1.30 a litre and costs $100 plus dollar to fill a vehicle, compared to recharging a car...for 25 cents.
And government are helping big oil (no it's not tinfoil hat talk). Simple reason. No more tax at the pump. We're talking billions and billions of dollars of lost revenue in the future unless they find a way to add a new tax in.
 
2013-08-22 01:25:10 PM
because electric cars don't drive on gravel roads?

/fark TX
//fark Perry
 
2013-08-22 01:25:14 PM

serial_crusher: simplicimus: dragonfire77: serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.

Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.

Oil, natural gas run power plants. Electric cars are electric.

I have to believe the profit margins on gasoline are higher, since electricity rates are so much more regulated.
It will be kind of interesting when everybody switches to electric cars though.  We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.


Well, living close enough to the gulf, I have a gas powered generator, so in theory I could have an electric cars and still buy gasoline.
 
2013-08-22 01:25:40 PM
FTFA:  "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

I've lived in Texas for 15 years, so let me translate this for all of you who aren't that fortunate:

"This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws to sell cars directly to buyers. If we made an exception for everybody let people do that, nobody would buy cars from us, because we're such a bunch of assholes that 'buying a car' shows up on the list of things that people hate the most somewhere between oral surgery and doing time in prison, so if we that showed up in the legislature our giant payoffs to the legislature could be circumvented, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril. we'd disappear entirely, and there would be great joy and celebration throughout the land. And we can't have that. Because we live in a free enterprise system, which requires bribes to politicians in order to keep it 'free.'  Why do you hate America?"

Hope that clears it up.
 
2013-08-22 01:26:10 PM
Car? I thought everyone flew over Texas.
 
2013-08-22 01:26:17 PM
I just finished repairing a component for one of the robots that Tesla uses to manufacture their cars so Im getting a kick out of these replies
 
2013-08-22 01:26:22 PM
Yo Texas, Don't mess with Teslas!
 
2013-08-22 01:26:27 PM

serial_crusher: We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.


Build capacitance into the grid.  Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.  Increase capacitance, and you don't run into the issue where one terminal station overload causes everything else in the chain to go down.  Much more time to ramp production of electricity up or down to meet demand, less loss in the grid, and less wasted production.
 
2013-08-22 01:26:36 PM
Car dealerships are the biggest scam going and they are not going to give an inch.
You would not believe the money that can be made in that industry, I was involved for many years.
And this is Canada, I would imagine the larger market of America would be worse for scamming.

How can you sell something that is now $10,000 off, with $2,500 worth of this, $1,000 worth of that and a trip to Mexico?

WHAT DID THE VEHICLE COST IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?

Did your buddy pay $15,000 more than you 8 months ago for the same thing?
 
2013-08-22 01:26:48 PM

This text is now purple: Marcus Aurelius: "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.

The idea behind franchise laws is less to prop up the franchisees themselves and more to prevent the auto manufacturers from implementing complete market integration.

Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players. Are you sure you want Texas taking the libertarian ideal?


Which smaller players are you worried about here?  The independent car dealerships?  Or smaller car manufacturers like Tesla?
The dealerships, I could care less about.
The small manufacturers are already getting screwed, so what would be worse?
 
2013-08-22 01:27:20 PM
Texas,

i.qkme.me
 
2013-08-22 01:27:22 PM
Great business opportunity for Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:27 PM
Technically, they aren't banning the car, just the sales model.  For a car at this price point, it will be easy enough to buy one elsewhere and just have it delivered.  I'm sure they'll still get their sales tax.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:29 PM

Barfmaker: So is Tesla saying they'll have dealerships but the dealerships will be owned by Tesla? I guess what I'm axing is, what's the difference between a dealer and a store? And more to the point, if I bought one, where would I take it to get it fixed?


A Dealership is typically required to provide service to their customers.  A Store isn't.  Hence, a Store can offer lower costs, because they don't have that whole extra service department and its overhead.

Dealers are also required by law to have the actual vehicle they advertise in their possession.  A Store can advertise a vehicle, and then tell you you have to order it yourself.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:38 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.


I've only been to Houston and Galveston. I heard that west of Houston all they had were cattle and oil fields, and men who loved them both.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:48 PM

Nhojwolfe: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

I also remember reading about this from Newyork as well.

But lets all focus on Texas


I, for one, think it is cute how all of the jealous non-Texans react to our state. Funny as hell.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:59 PM
How is this not considered racketeering?
 
2013-08-22 01:28:13 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Dinki: Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.

And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.

Nah. Except for some pockets of East Texas, there's only one flag that Texans hold dear.

And it ain't the American Flag.


East Texas, it's the Stars and Bars.
 
2013-08-22 01:29:59 PM
Could Tesla work out some kind of deal with CarMax to have them be the exclusive sellers of Tesla cars?  You'd still get some markup, but the consumer experience would be fine, and it would be a great fark you to the traditional dealership scumbags.

I don't think you'd need to worry about the salesman being "prejudiced" against electric cars there (or at any dealership really).  People looking for a Tesla probably wouldn't be interested in the other Carmax cars and vice versa.
 
2013-08-22 01:31:02 PM

HenryFnord: How is this not considered racketeering?


No Italians gangsters are invloved?
 
2013-08-22 01:31:29 PM

This text is now purple: Cyberluddite: Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Have you ever tried to buy a car from outside your state of residence? You'll just pay state sales tax again in order to register it and get plates.


If you buy a car out of state you only pay sales tax when you register it in your home state...

I bought a car from IL and had it FedEx'd to me in PA a few years ago.
 
2013-08-22 01:31:36 PM

chrisco123: Dinki

Hmm, whom to believe? Just about every review written by professional auto experts and auto magazines, or a internet forum post by someone that doesn't even know the difference between they're and there. Decisions decisions.

My grammar is a heck of a lot better than your grammar, chump.  How does one become a professional auto expert?  Sounds like a great imaginary job.  BTW, no need for your comma just before a conjunction.


"How do you become a professional auto expert?"

...
 
2013-08-22 01:31:48 PM
Yay! Free Market Capitalism!
 
2013-08-22 01:31:51 PM

the money is in the banana stand: In our industry, manufacturers historically, tried to own and operate their own dealerships. They failed, miserably. There are a variety of reasons why they failed, but most importantly is that they are great at understanding the bigger picture and products, but do not understand specific markets and service on a local level


Would you say that they don't have "people skills?"

i158.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-22 01:32:26 PM

Evil Mackerel: Car? I thought everyone flew over Texas.


I just did...looks like a pretty dead place.  Mostly dead grass, sand, dust, and concrete.  Looks like a dirty, dusty, dirt brown zen garden from the air....
 
2013-08-22 01:32:28 PM
Also, the franchise laws go way back. Can't blame it on Perry. I'm sure if he'd been around then and in a position to enable them, he'd have done so shamelessly and enthusiastically.
 
2013-08-22 01:32:45 PM

dragonfire77: serial_crusher: We already have rolling blackouts during hot summers when the grid can't keep up with everybody's AC.

Build capacitance into the grid.  Seems to be the best technical solution for the blackout issue.  Increase capacitance, and you don't run into the issue where one terminal station overload causes everything else in the chain to go down.  Much more time to ramp production of electricity up or down to meet demand, less loss in the grid, and less wasted production.


The grid has plenty of capacitors and resistors. Last I was in that industry (mid 80's to mid '90s) they weren't maintained and most didn't function. Too expensive to maintain, the shareholders needed the money more.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:48 PM
Someone explain to me why Tesla doesn't just get some independent franchises or get sold at some existing places like the law requires them to. The only reason I can think of is that they're smaller than the others.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:17 PM

the money is in the banana stand: It is a tricky situation and I am not sure why car dealerships are any different than our industry. I am not sure why manufacturers cannot own their own dealerships. They do not in our industry not because they cannot, but because that it just doesn't work.


The manufactures might not own the dealerships, but they own the new car inventories and can pull your franchise at a moment's notice. They also own the certification of the techs, and have a lot of control over the branding of the dealership itself. I think that the manufacturers prefer to franchise the dealers because it creates a buffer zone of liability between the customer and the manufacturer. Cars need to be sold in a high pressure, commissioned environment and the manufacturer doesn't want to be responsible for that.

Tesla is a little different because it is a boutique manufacturer with a ton of hype and very little market competition. I personally don't think that running their own dealerships saves them a dime, but the CEO is a Jobs-esque control freak.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:17 PM

inner ted: looked online - is it really only $50k ?


Yes and no. Nothing on-sale now is below $87,900 after rebate and before taxes. That's the price range of an Audi S8, a BMW M5, a Jaguar XJ, a Porsche Panamera, or a Viper SRT. Not exactly middle-class family sedan.

The barebones 40kWh base model ($49,900 after rebate) isn't on sale yet, and its specs haven't even been published yet. I'm guessing that thing will be like the 4-cyl castrated version of the Mustang -- only rental dealers will bother with them. That's in the range of the Audi A6, BMW 5-series, or the Cadillac XTS.

The most expensive Kia, by comparison, has an MSRP of $32k.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:40 PM

inner ted: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I was behind a Model S on the way in to work this morning

/nice ride
//too nice for Texas, anyway

saw the sedan (or as brits call it: a salooooooon) this morning on the way in. was super duper cool.

looked online - is it really only $50k ?  that seems like a steal cause even a crappy kia is near $40


The base Model S starts around $70k.  Then, there is a $7500 Federal Tax credit you can deduct when you file.

A $40k Kia?  You've got to be kidding me.  The full-size TOTL Cadenza is around $35k, before you start haggling.
 
2013-08-22 01:37:06 PM

This text is now purple: The barebones 40kWh base model ($49,900 after rebate) isn't on sale yet, and its specs haven't even been published yet.


That model has been dropped entirely. They decided it wasn't profitable, so they axed it from the line-up.
 
2013-08-22 01:38:26 PM

Fireproof: Someone explain to me why Tesla doesn't just get some independent franchises or get sold at some existing places like the law requires them to. The only reason I can think of is that they're smaller than the others.


They don't want to share that sweet, sweet profit margin with any middlemen.  They need to keep it for themselves, to keep the company profitable.
 
2013-08-22 01:38:30 PM
If the car makers and dealers were smart, they'd learn from the music industry that the future cannot be stopped by lawsuits.

They need to change their business model, fast.

The future has arrived.
 
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