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(Yahoo)   Texas bans sales of Tesla cars, because Fark you   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Texas, Fark, Motor Trend  
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20267 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:49 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 01:03:53 PM  
I saw a Tesla just last week in Texas, with a Texas temp paper plate.  So at least one person in Texas managed to get one.  Texas needs to pull their head out of their ass on this, unless they plan on passing some outrageous  registration fees to make up for the fact that Tesla owners will not be paying road taxes through fuel purchases.
 
2013-08-22 01:03:55 PM  

whosits_112: Marcus Aurelius: "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.

I can imagine this Bill Wolters guy in a grey suit with starched white shirt, stiff collar, bolo tie, big 10-gallon Stetson, gator skin boots, gold watch and rings, and pushing about 260lbs. Talking in the thickets Texas drawl. What a douche...


I pictured the same thing but it is, unfortunately, inaccurate

http://www.tada.org/TADA/About/President_s_Message/TADA/About/Presid en t_s_Message.aspx?hkey=bd2b2568-e5c0-45e9-8aa6-d17d315c0f2d
 
2013-08-22 01:04:01 PM  
Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.
 
2013-08-22 01:04:01 PM  

simplicimus: mcreadyblue: simplicimus: Therion: "If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is making jack-off motions behind your back.

I'm guessing that since being a Texas legislator is a part time job, most legislators are car salesmen in the 8 or so months they have off. Most likely used car salesmen.

They only work 4 months every two years.

Most are lawyers.

Huh. I thought the 140 days were work days, not elapsed time. And lawyers vs. used car salesmen, I can't say which I'd prefer.


They often work weekends and have all night sessions.

The govornor can call for a special session at any time, but legislatures can only work on specified legislature. Or do nothing. ;-)

Bribes are perfectly legal in Texas ( except on the floor of the Senate or House and except by businesses ) so many just live off that slush money.
 
2013-08-22 01:04:41 PM  

ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.


I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.
 
2013-08-22 01:04:59 PM  

Nem Wan: Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.

All of these state bans could be challenged. The Commerce Clause gives the federal government a lot of power.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddganos/2013/05/15/north-carolinas-thre a t-to-tesla-likely-unconstitutional/


According to this article in the post, http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-24/local/40164497_1_tesla- m otors-model-s-elon-musk, thats probably what they'll do

Chief executive Elon Musk has said he might take his case to Congress or the federal courts. "If we're seeing nonstop battles at the state level, rather than fight 20 different state battles, I'd rather fight one federal battle," Musk told Automotive News in April.
 
2013-08-22 01:05:19 PM  

Walliser: Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.


Yeah, that's probably it. It's not that conservatives told you that and you believed them.
 
2013-08-22 01:05:23 PM  
fark Texas!
 
2013-08-22 01:05:36 PM  
Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
 
2013-08-22 01:05:51 PM  
They have already successfully booted [Tesla] out of Texas and there is anti-Tesla legislation pending in North Carolina, Colorado and Virginia.

So now the party of "Small Government" is going to dictate what kind of car we can buy? Is there no end to the micromanagement of the GOP
 
2013-08-22 01:05:52 PM  

Voiceofreason01: The franchise law is bullshiat legislation that does very little besides screw consumers


Agreed.
 
2013-08-22 01:06:23 PM  

BigNumber12: Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.


It passed in 2010
There's a blurb about it farther down the story I linked.
 
2013-08-22 01:06:30 PM  

Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.


you get to tax the dealer when they buy the car and again when they sell it.
 
2013-08-22 01:06:46 PM  

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.


Where doing everyone a favor?

cdn.chud.com
 
2013-08-22 01:06:49 PM  
Yes but can you fit a dead hooker in the truck like in a Cadillac?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avnlVqtAVsc
 
2013-08-22 01:07:09 PM  
Dinki

Hmm, whom to believe? Just about every review written by professional auto experts and auto magazines, or a internet forum post by someone that doesn't even know the difference between they're and there. Decisions decisions.

My grammar is a heck of a lot better than your grammar, chump.  How does one become a professional auto expert?  Sounds like a great imaginary job.  BTW, no need for your comma just before a conjunction.
 
2013-08-22 01:07:16 PM  

chrisco123: There doing everyone a favor.  I drove a Tesla from NYC to Montreal and had to stop three times to charge the bastard.  Combine that with acceleration that feels like an elastic that never snaps and you have a crappy car.  I won't even mention the looks.  So what if its a "safe car".  How often do I crash up?


Is this your office?

cache.jalopnik.com
 
2013-08-22 01:08:47 PM  

ampoliros: BigNumber12: Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.

The legislators.



Yes, I kinda figured that legislators were responsible for the creation of a law... can we be a bit more specific?
 
2013-08-22 01:08:48 PM  

gnosis301: dj_spanmaster: Ah, the GM and Ford lobbyists have been busy. They'll do it one state at a time, if they can't do it nationally.

I believe auto manufacturers have little, if anything to do with this. It's more like local car dealers doing this.


Oh sure, they're the vocal ones, and the ones directly in the lines of fire. But if you think major auto manufacturers aren't interested in this, you're misled. Individual dealers don't have a lot of money; it's most likely that the manufacturers are throwing their financial weight behind the dealerships, but letting them be the public face.
 
2013-08-22 01:09:53 PM  

Voiceofreason01: Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.

you get to tax the dealer when they buy the car and again when they sell it.


Uhh, normally an item that is purchased for resale is tax-free (or you can deduct it as a business expense on your taxes).  And I as the consumer wind up paying the sales tax on the car when I purchase it.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:09 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I was behind a Model S on the way in to work this morning

/nice ride
//too nice for Texas, anyway


If you get the chance to drive one, do it.  Unfarkingbelievable car.  Two friends of mine each have one (one with the performance package, and one without), and I've driven both, and was completely blown away by both, though the one with the performance package is almost surreal and is certainly not recommended for those with a heart condition.  I've driven (and owned) a lot of very nice, high-end cars over the years, but nothing compares to the Tesla S.  I'm pretty sure I'll be buying one within the next year or two.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:10 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.


That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:35 PM  

Walker: More sales (and tax dollars) for Oklahoma and other neighboring states. Keep shooting yourselves in the foot Texas.


Every time we do the bullet passes through and we strike oil.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:48 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.


In the Tesla thread the other day, I said that it wouldn't be long before Big Oil finds a way to squish Tesla. I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist, that the Oil CEOs don't give a fark about Tesla, etc.

Leave it to Texas to crush others' faith in humanity.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:58 PM  
The small government, business-friendly environment strikes again.
 
2013-08-22 01:11:43 PM  

serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.


There's one in Houston by the Galleria and one in Austin also. Guess they didn't get the memo.
 
2013-08-22 01:12:09 PM  
Why are Tesla threads becoming the new tipping/IQ/kids on planes threads?
 
2013-08-22 01:12:19 PM  
All aboard the "C" ship, pardners!
 
2013-08-22 01:12:57 PM  

Walliser: Usually that kind of anti-consumer protectionism is reserved for more liberal areas of the country.


It can occur anywhere.  Conservative lawmakers just have to come up with more interesting justifications for why their actions totally contradict their policies when it happens in their area.
 
2013-08-22 01:13:11 PM  

serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.


Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.
 
2013-08-22 01:13:49 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.


Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.
 
2013-08-22 01:14:44 PM  

BigNumber12: ampoliros: BigNumber12: Does anyone know who's behind and supporting the anti-Tesla legislation in CO? I'm having a tough time tracking that information down.

The legislators.


Yes, I kinda figured that legislators were responsible for the creation of a law... can we be a bit more specific?


The automobile dealer associations.  These are lobbying groups at the state level that represent the dealers.  These groups influence the legislators.

In this case, the deck is stacked against Tesla because its impossible for them to have any representation at the state level, in every state.  Thats why they'll probably take this to the feds as the post article I linked above mentioned.
 
2013-08-22 01:14:55 PM  
Ah, here's an article with a fun explanation of the Tesla buying process:
You can visit one of the two galleries Tesla Motors operates in the state - one in Austin, the other in Houston - but employees can't tell you how much the car costs. They can't offer you a test drive. They can't even give you their website address. And if you buy one, the car is delivered by a third party - in a truck that's not allowed to have Tesla markings.
"So the car just gets dumped off at your house," said Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk. "And the customer has to peel off the plastic wrap themselves."


Peeling off plastic is something I can manage (better than the local Ford dealership, as it turns out), but the rest of that is ridiculous.
I'm wondering how the "they can't offer you a test drive" thing works.  Does that just mean they're not allowed to suggest it, or I can't even go up there and ask to test drive it?
 
2013-08-22 01:15:15 PM  

Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.


You forgot Truck Nutz.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:20 PM  
Yet they have a problem with California trying to regulate that any eggs sold in California come from chickens that have minimum dimensions to live in because of interstate commerce, blah blah.  God these people just can't get any more hypocritical or petty.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:23 PM  

Lando Lincoln: About 50% of the human race is middle-men and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.


The problem is, once they're eliminated, we'll all be killed by a disease picked up from a dirty telephone.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:54 PM  

dragonfire77: serial_crusher: Article is light on details.  I heard about some state like Tennessee trying to make a law that said you couldn't sell cars through the Internet, that would have still allowed Tesla to sell from their own showrooms (or partner with dealers, because who wants to build a storefront in Tennessee?).

Is that the same deal here in Texas, or are they outright banned for some reason or another?  Cause there's a Tesla showroom up in South Dallas.

Texas.  Oil State.  Electric Cars.  That's the reason.


Oil, natural gas run power plants. Electric cars are electric.
 
2013-08-22 01:16:06 PM  

Dinki: ampoliros: They know a plan to cut into their tax revenue when they see it.

I don't quite get the tax revenue angle- is there additional taxes on franchisees, because i would think a sale is a sale is a sale.


I assume that, like the vast majority of states, Texas charges sales tax on new cars purchased in the state, right?  The sales tax on a car that sells for close to 100 grand is quite a chunk of change.  Sounds like Texas is willing to cede that revenue to other states, where Texans might go to purchase a Tesla.

Not sure how the Tesla dealer thing works in other states, of course, since I'm in Northern California.  Around here, buyers just pick them up from the factory in Fremont and drive them home.  As a bonus, they give you a tour of the factory when you pick up your car.  I got to along with a friend when he picked his new Tesla up there, and one impression you come away with is that Tesla is really in this for the long haul--the capital investment and technology in that factory is jaw-dropping for a start-up company.
 
2013-08-22 01:16:28 PM  

Another Government Employee: I think the same thing applies in Massachusets.  I remember a dealer up there filing a Federal suit to completely stop the sales of Tesla products on Interstate Commerce provisions.  Never did hear the outcome.


I also remember reading about this from Newyork as well.

But lets all focus on Texas
 
2013-08-22 01:16:31 PM  

simplicimus: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

That's going to depend on how well they handle on gravel roads. We've got 6 counties who are converting some small paved roads to gravel. It's the paving material of the future.


Yeah, we are really becoming a third world nation aren't we. Soon enough Tesla will top trying to fight these stupid laws and simply sell all their cars overseas where the real money is.
 
2013-08-22 01:16:33 PM  
This will surely create jobs.
 
2013-08-22 01:16:57 PM  

Walker: More sales (and tax dollars) for Oklahoma and other neighboring states. Keep shooting yourselves in the foot Texas.


Did you read the part of the article where is says your state (Virginia) has pending legislation for the same thing?

/that foot you mention appears to be in your mouth
 
2013-08-22 01:17:02 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "This happens all the time," said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. "Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril."

So these bootstrappy free market conservatives need the government to protect them from competition.

How utterly libertarian of them.


The idea behind franchise laws is less to prop up the franchisees themselves and more to prevent the auto manufacturers from implementing complete market integration.

Let me put it this way, if Tesla gets it's way, what's stopping Toyota, Ford, and GM from making equal protection cases and getting direct sales themselves? They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players. Are you sure you want Texas taking the libertarian ideal?
 
2013-08-22 01:18:12 PM  
Small gummermint freedumbs, North Mexico style.
 
2013-08-22 01:18:28 PM  
For those that feel that buying directly from the manufacturer is a good deal and do not understand having to pay a middle man:

I do not own a car dealership, but I own a dealership in another industry. Most people are thoroughly confused and feel like they are being taken advantage of having to pay "extra" money and pay a middle-man to get their product. Most consumers see the product and nothing else. The critical element that dealerships in general bring to the table is service. Depending the product, the service element can actually be more important than the product itself. In our industry, manufacturers historically, tried to own and operate their own dealerships. They failed, miserably. There are a variety of reasons why they failed, but most importantly is that they are great at understanding the bigger picture and products, but do not understand specific markets and service on a local level. There is no law to state manufacturers in our industry cannot own their own dealership, however almost none do so because the amount of service work and process of procurement is far more complicated than most people would ever imagine. There are plenty of companies that specialize in parts of our process and contract just those services out and do not sell any product. That is great and all, but consumers just don't see the value of service by-and-large. They don't want and are not willing to spend anything on service, but understand getting a superior product. You WILL have to pay for the service even if you don't see it. If the manufacturer owns the dealership and you require any service, you will pay for that in mark-up or margin due to the overhead.

It is a tricky situation and I am not sure why car dealerships are any different than our industry. I am not sure why manufacturers cannot own their own dealerships. They do not in our industry not because they cannot, but because that it just doesn't work.
 
2013-08-22 01:18:48 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Maud Dib: Coming on a Bicycle: I'm sure that if the Tesla car somehow becomes really popular in Texas, the situation will right itself automatically.

Not until it comes with 4WD, a lift kit, muddin' tires, and a brush guard.

You forgot Truck Nutz.


And bumpers big enough for "Don't mess with texas" and confederate flag  stickers.
 
2013-08-22 01:19:15 PM  
Dear Texas,

Please make good on your promise to secede. Then you can do whatever backwards-ass bullshiat you want to.

Signed,

The USA
 
2013-08-22 01:19:23 PM  

This text is now purple: They'll use their far superior distribution chain and production capacity to overwhelm the smaller players. Are you sure you want Texas taking the libertarian ideal?


Like walmart, mcdonalds and other giant multinationals do?  Why are cars any different?
 
2013-08-22 01:19:35 PM  
You could achieve the same basic principle by drafting the franchise agreements so the owners are compensated by salary and not sales volume.
 
2013-08-22 01:20:11 PM  

clkeagle: indarwinsshadow: Funny how they skip over the fact that Texas is an oil state. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

In the Tesla thread the other day, I said that it wouldn't be long before Big Oil finds a way to squish Tesla. I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist, that the Oil CEOs don't give a fark about Tesla, etc.

Leave it to Texas to crush others' faith in humanity.


Except this isn't "big oil", it's car dealerships that are doing it to defend their entrenched legal protectionism.
 
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