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(Think Progress)   Jim DeMint, who once advocated RomneyCare as an alternative to going to the ER, now advocates going to the ER as an alternative to ObamaCare   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 113
    More: Dumbass, Jim DeMint, romneycare, obamacare, emergency rooms, R-MA  
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1155 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Aug 2013 at 1:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



113 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-22 01:24:44 PM
Yup clogging up the ER and having the hospital pass along the costs to rate payers sounds totally sustainable.
 
2013-08-22 01:24:45 PM
Because it's cheaper.
 
2013-08-22 01:25:06 PM
He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.
 
2013-08-22 01:25:22 PM
Really?
.www.gatorbytes.net
 
2013-08-22 01:26:24 PM

Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


You again? Go away.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:02 PM
Right wingers; These are your leaders and heroes.  Unabashed liars and bullshiatters.  Defend this bullshiat, you trolling lying farks.  Defend your leader and hero Jim DeMint.

DO IT.

DO IT.
 
2013-08-22 01:27:48 PM

Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.


Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."
 
2013-08-22 01:28:02 PM
Jim DeMint is a horrible person.
 
2013-08-22 01:29:52 PM
Damn did they ever put a lot of eggs in the "the Supreme Court will obviously strike down Obamacare as unconstitutional" basket.

This is what they're left with.
 
2013-08-22 01:30:08 PM
My wife is a nurse at a hospital emergency room. The amount of people that come in for bullshiat because the ER has to treat them is unreal. It slows down the EMERGENCY room and people that really need treatment cant get it. Her hospital is currently laying off people because they lost $30mil last year. The amount of unpaid ER bills was over $150 mil.
Republicans think this is a fantastic system. It's not.
 
2013-08-22 01:30:23 PM
Surprise surprise.
 
2013-08-22 01:31:35 PM
Is there any one Republican out there who has a conscience, soul, morals, ethics or anything that would lead me to believe they aren't vile, despicable, maggot-ridden vials of human misery masquerading as meat popsicles?
 
2013-08-22 01:31:36 PM
You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care
 
2013-08-22 01:32:15 PM

Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.



Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?
 
2013-08-22 01:32:49 PM
Look subby, that 's pre-1/20 thinking.

Things were irrevocably changed on January 20, 2008 when Al Quaeda was able to insert a Muslim Terrorist in the White House making Osama bin Laden's dream a reality.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:11 PM
He sounds DeMinted.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:15 PM

Ring of Fire: My wife is a nurse at a hospital emergency room. The amount of people that come in for bullshiat because the ER has to treat them is unreal. It slows down the EMERGENCY room and people that really need treatment cant get it. Her hospital is currently laying off people because they lost $30mil last year. The amount of unpaid ER bills was over $150 mil.
Republicans think this is a fantastic system. It's not.


They would spend upwards of 100 billion dollars to make the HNIC look bad.  No, correction: there is no amount of money they wouldn't spend to make Fartbarfburger look bad.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:34 PM

theorellior: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

You again? Go away.


He reminds me of a certain internet dentist who hasn't been seen around here for a while.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:12 PM

zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care


But that involves condoms, vaccines, abortions, and admitting that Obama did something (at least mildly) correct.

So that's a non-starter.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:26 PM

Dwight_Yeast: He reminds me of a certain internet dentist who hasn't been seen around here for a while.


It's farking clownshoes that he's gotten enough bites off of his transparent bullshiat in the last month to become a fixture around here.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:35 PM
You see, what this is is his views have evolved.  No, evolved is not the right word because he probably does not believe in evolution.  His views have been designed or created in the last five years, coinciding with the election of a Kenyan to be President of the U.S.  That's all you really see here, and it's nothing for DeMint to be ashamed of.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:39 PM

zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care


Is Obama for it? They are against it. Doesn't matter what they said in the past. They created the Obama monster. Now they are forced to pretend.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:43 PM

Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?


why should you be forced to give Obama your money?
 
2013-08-22 01:35:48 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Right wingers; These are your leaders and heroes.  Unabashed liars and bullshiatters.  Defend this bullshiat, you trolling lying farks.  Defend your leader and hero Jim DeMint.

DO IT.

DO IT.


Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.
 
2013-08-22 01:36:33 PM

zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would...


After watching them burn $75,000,000 in taxpayer money to chase down a cum-stained blue dress I realized there was no depth of stupidity and petulance to which the republican party is willing to sink.
 
2013-08-22 01:36:39 PM

coeyagi: Is there any one Republican out there who has a conscience, soul, morals, ethics or anything that would lead me to believe they aren't vile, despicable, maggot-ridden vials of human misery masquerading as meat popsicles?


No, because you cannot be led.
 
2013-08-22 01:36:54 PM

Ring of Fire: My wife is a nurse at a hospital emergency room. The amount of people that come in for bullshiat because the ER has to treat them is unreal. It slows down the EMERGENCY room and people that really need treatment cant get it. Her hospital is currently laying off people because they lost $30mil last year. The amount of unpaid ER bills was over $150 mil.
Republicans think this is a fantastic system. It's not.


The last time I had to go to the emergency room (about 7 year ago), I was amazed at how long I had to wait to get my gaping hand wound stitched up.  "It's cool guy, just wait here and stare inside your hand at the fancy tendons and muscle.  Consider it an educational experience."

If Jim DeMint gets his way, I can have an even more educational experience while waiting behind the uninsured guy with a hamster up his butt.
 
2013-08-22 01:37:57 PM
Because everybody at the ER works for free and all the medicines are free and the building was free.
 
2013-08-22 01:38:12 PM

Garet Garrett: Satanic_Hamster: Right wingers; These are your leaders and heroes.  Unabashed liars and bullshiatters.  Defend this bullshiat, you trolling lying farks.  Defend your leader and hero Jim DeMint.

DO IT.

DO IT.

Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.


One would think a lawyer could craft an argument defending DeMint.

Why do you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?
 
2013-08-22 01:39:20 PM

coeyagi: Is there any one Republican out there who has a conscience, soul, morals, ethics or anything that would lead me to believe they aren't vile, despicable, maggot-ridden vials of human misery masquerading as meat popsicles?


Arlen Spector from PA died and may have been the last one
 
2013-08-22 01:39:38 PM

Dwight_Yeast: theorellior: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

You again? Go away.

He reminds me of a certain internet dentist who hasn't been seen around here for a while.


He's probably still busy Philling Up his schedule with pulling people's teeth online.
 
2013-08-22 01:39:54 PM

Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.


That right there says an awful lot about republicans. You really think it would be a bad thing to admit that a person is capable of reevaluating and evolving their views as time passes? That seems like the sort of thing that would be a negative for you?
 
2013-08-22 01:40:03 PM

Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?



Since you have avoided the question I will assume you have no citations let alone facts to back up your claims. This has been noted.
 
2013-08-22 01:40:16 PM

Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.


I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.
 
2013-08-22 01:42:08 PM

Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?


Threadshiat it is.
 
2013-08-22 01:42:16 PM

Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?


So you're still sore that Obama took all your guns away?
 
2013-08-22 01:42:53 PM

Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.


That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.
 
2013-08-22 01:43:08 PM

zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care


But how would they punish people for being poor?
 
2013-08-22 01:44:18 PM

Raharu: Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?


Since you have avoided the question I will assume you have no citations let alone facts to back up your claims. This has been noted.



Oh I almost forgot to answer your question.

I like to pay my taxes, with them, I buy civilization.

Also only a very very very small portion of my taxes are going towards the Presidents salary. Which I again have no problem pay, civil servants should be paid. Do you disagree?
 
2013-08-22 01:44:42 PM

Garet Garrett: Satanic_Hamster: Right wingers; These are your leaders and heroes.  Unabashed liars and bullshiatters.  Defend this bullshiat, you trolling lying farks.  Defend your leader and hero Jim DeMint.

DO IT.

DO IT.

Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.


How about if I admit that he was a pussy until pushed by Biden?

Would that satisfy you?

Now explain how that relates to the Heritage Foundation and Jim DeMint threatening to shut down the US government because Obama and Congress passed a plan invented by the Heritage Foundation, passed by the GOP's last presidential candidate, and supported by Jim DeMint?
 
2013-08-22 01:44:57 PM

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.


Did you even bother to read the post where I followed up with a snippet of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush AND provided a link to where you can read the whole letter?
 
2013-08-22 01:45:04 PM

theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.


So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?  I think it's fairly clear that I don't think, or suggest it to be the case, that Obama is/was a knuckledragging homophobe, fwiw.

Or is this whole thing too subtle for your type?
 
2013-08-22 01:45:10 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?

So you're still sore that Obama took all your guns away?


Well, that and fartbongorama made him to get divorced and then forced him to gay marry a seekrit muslin then have an abortion while eating a bible.
 
2013-08-22 01:45:46 PM

wozzeck: How about if I admit that he was a pussy until pushed by Biden?


False equivalence.  You have to assert MALICIOUS INTENT in the changed position for it to be a fair parallel.
 
2013-08-22 01:46:01 PM

Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Medical costs say otherwise.
 
2013-08-22 01:46:04 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Marcus Aurelius: Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give Obama your money?

So you're still sore that Obama took all your guns away?

Well, that and fartbongorama made him to get divorced and then forced him to gay marry a seekrit muslin then have an abortion while eating a bible.


I hadn't heard the part about the bible eating.

That sounds serious.
 
2013-08-22 01:46:59 PM

IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.


His posts soak up 47 times their weight in excess reality.
 
2013-08-22 01:48:16 PM

Garet Garrett: theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.

So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?


He disagrees with his own opinion now.

How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?
 
2013-08-22 01:48:25 PM

Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."


Key word. The only real change to Obamacare is this word to "public"...but that makes all the difference in the world.

/Private good, Public baaaaaad.
//Which is why we let private megacorps get away with things we'd excoriate the eeeeeeeebil gubmint for.
 
2013-08-22 01:48:47 PM
Marcus Aurelius:

That sounds serious.

Yeah, so I kinda see where the poor guy's coming from.  He must be so traumatized.
 
2013-08-22 01:49:09 PM

IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.


It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.
 
2013-08-22 01:50:40 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Marcus Aurelius:

That sounds serious.

Yeah, so I kinda see where the poor guy's coming from.  He must be so traumatized.


Well he's in luck, because starting in 2014, his health insurer will have to cover his pre-existing conditions.  Of which there appear to be many.
 
2013-08-22 01:50:56 PM

Garet Garrett: Or is this whole thing too subtle for your type?


Don't go away mad, just go away.
 
2013-08-22 01:51:44 PM

Aristocles: IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.

It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.


So you're saying you're a deadbeat.
 
2013-08-22 01:52:07 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Garet Garrett: theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.

So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?

He disagrees with his own opinion now.

How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?


You know that episode of Its Always Sunny where Charlie keeps trying to act/talk like a lawyer and obviously has no clue about the legal system? That's what this guy reminds me of.
 
2013-08-22 01:53:14 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Aristocles: IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.

It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.

So you're saying you're a deadbeat.


No, I'm Obama didn't think this through and there will be moochers.
 
2013-08-22 01:53:47 PM

Serious Black: Garet Garrett: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.

Did you even bother to read the post where I followed up with a snippet of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush AND provided a link to where you can read the whole letter?


You know, it's possible to advocate for comprehensive health care coverage without resorting to government mandates.  Which is actually what he did.  Otherwise all that stuff about encouraging the states to explore their own ideas, modernizing tax rules, etc. wouldn't have meant anything.  His letter amounts to saying "Hey, how about we stop the government from stomping on the collective dick of people and their doctors and see if that makes things better."

But don't think that it's lost on people that no good deed goes unpunished in your book.
 
2013-08-22 01:53:55 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Satan's Bunny Slippers: Marcus Aurelius:

That sounds serious.

Yeah, so I kinda see where the poor guy's coming from.  He must be so traumatized.

Well he's in luck, because starting in 2014, his health insurer will have to cover his pre-existing conditions.  Of which there appear to be many.


I think he may be one of the ones Saint Ronnie let loose.
 
2013-08-22 01:54:07 PM

Garet Garrett: wozzeck: How about if I admit that he was a pussy until pushed by Biden?

False equivalence.  You have to assert MALICIOUS INTENT in the changed position for it to be a fair parallel.


And who was the MALICIOUS INTENT against when Obama switched to supporting gay marriage, you pathetic, laughable moron?
 
2013-08-22 01:55:29 PM

IlGreven: Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."

Key word. The only real change to Obamacare is this word to "public"...but that makes all the difference in the world.

/Private good, Public baaaaaad.
//Which is why we let private megacorps get away with things we'd excoriate the eeeeeeeebil gubmint for.


If Republicans were really upset about the whole private versus public issue, they should have been completely on board with Ron Wyden and Bob Bennett's plan that would have abolished Medicaid and put poor people on the private market, much like what Arkansas has provisional approval for from the Obama administration. Instead, Utah's Republicans fired Bob Bennett for heresy.
 
2013-08-22 01:56:04 PM

IlGreven: Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."

Key word. The only real change to Obamacare is this word to "public"...but that makes all the difference in the world.

/Private good, Public baaaaaad.
//Which is why we let private megacorps get away with things we'd excoriate the eeeeeeeebil gubmint for.


No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion.  I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.
 
2013-08-22 01:56:50 PM

Garet Garrett: No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion. I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.


The exception to my rule being, of course, being penalized for refusing to buy private insurance under ObamaCare.  But that sorta makes the point.
 
2013-08-22 01:57:22 PM

Aristocles: IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.

It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.


Typical republican, purposely mooching off the system while condemning other people who have no choice for doing the same thing. Bunch of farking hypocrites, the lot of them.
 
2013-08-22 01:58:15 PM
31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-22 01:58:34 PM

wozzeck: And who was the MALICIOUS INTENT against when Obama switched to supporting gay marriage, you pathetic, laughable moron?


Christ, are you really that stupid?  Or are you simply responding without reading what came before?  Viciously, I might add.
 
2013-08-22 01:58:40 PM
I wish the GOP shrills would offer an alternative plan to Obamacare.  Maybe they are too busy with laser like focus on job creation?
 
2013-08-22 02:00:05 PM

glmorrs1: HotWingConspiracy: Garet Garrett: theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.

So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?

He disagrees with his own opinion now.

How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?

You know that episode of Its Always Sunny where Charlie keeps trying to act/talk like a lawyer and obviously has no clue about the legal system? That's what this guy reminds me of.


You are not possibly asserting that he is as smart as Charlie Kelly.
 
2013-08-22 02:00:42 PM

Garet Garrett: No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion.  I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.


Let me guess, taxation is theft?
 
2013-08-22 02:00:55 PM

Garet Garrett: I think it's fairly clear that I don't think


Can't argue with that.
 
2013-08-22 02:01:07 PM

Garet Garrett: IlGreven: Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."

Key word. The only real change to Obamacare is this word to "public"...but that makes all the difference in the world.

/Private good, Public baaaaaad.
//Which is why we let private megacorps get away with things we'd excoriate the eeeeeeeebil gubmint for.

No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion.  I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.


And you can't go to jail if you don't have insurance or pay the tax for not having it. Since you claim to be a lawyer and all, maybe you should actually read up on what the law says. Not like there's dozens of websites that will break it down so even laymen can understand it.

/You'll probably need the layman's explanation, because there is no way you're actually a lawyer.
 
2013-08-22 02:02:47 PM

Garet Garrett: Garet Garrett: No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion. I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.

The exception to my rule being, of course, being penalized for refusing to buy private insurance under ObamaCare.  But that sorta makes the point.


A great addition to ObamaCare would have been a system where you could register as excepting yourself from having to buy insurance, but if you did register all medical providers would be barred from providing you with medical care unless you could pay cash on the barrelhead.
 
2013-08-22 02:03:00 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: glmorrs1: HotWingConspiracy: Garet Garrett: theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.

So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?

He disagrees with his own opinion now.

How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?

You know that episode of Its Always Sunny where Charlie keeps trying to act/talk like a lawyer and obviously has no clue about the legal system? That's what this guy reminds me of.

You are not possibly asserting that he is as smart as Charlie Kelly.


I lol'd.
 
2013-08-22 02:04:36 PM

Aristocles: Marcus Aurelius: Aristocles: IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.

It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.

So you're saying you're a deadbeat.

No, I'm Obama didn't think this through and there will be moochers.


There have been moochers all along.  There should theoretically be fewer of them due to the mandate.  But given the paltry size of the penalty ($95?), some of them will still be there.

Do you not approve of fewer moochers?  Or should Obamacare be eliminated due to its lack of perfection?
 
2013-08-22 02:04:49 PM
Alas, an ancient and furious troll has arisen once more to spread derp and feces all over this thread by saying "No, you're wrong" in perpetuity.  Jim DeMint, be proud, for your worthless, hypocritical ass has unleashed a monster.
 
2013-08-22 02:05:50 PM

Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Just FYI, lying in 99.99% of posts gets you ignored, and your troll act won't be seen. If you can't do better, you should just stop.
 
2013-08-22 02:06:11 PM

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: Garet Garrett: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.

Did you even bother to read the post where I followed up with a snippet of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush AND provided a link to where you can read the whole letter?

You know, it's possible to advocate for comprehensive health care coverage without resorting to government mandates.  Which is actually what he did.  Otherwise all that stuff about encouraging the states to explore their own ideas, modernizing tax rules, etc. wouldn't have meant anything.  His letter amounts to saying "Hey, how about we stop the government from stomping on the collective dick of people and their doctors and see if that makes things better."

But don't think that it's lost on people that no good deed goes unpunished in your book.


Guess what? ObamaCare does both of those things!

Section 1332 of the law provides states an easy way to opt out of basically all of the state rules and requirements, including both the individual and employer shared responsibility payments; Vermont plans to use this waiver to build a single-payer system for all of its residents. Obama came out in support of Ron Wyden and Scott Brown's proposal to move up the initial date for this waiver from 2017 to 2014, but it went absolutely nowhere.

As for modernizing tax rules, it's laughable to suggest ObamaCare doesn't do that given the pretty extensive attempts to equalize the tax treatment of individual and employer health insurance and make these treatments more helpful to those who have the most difficulty purchasing insurance today.
 
2013-08-22 02:07:38 PM

wozzeck: Garet Garrett: Garet Garrett: No, the reason we let private megacorps get away with things is because they don't have the power of coercion. I don't go to jail if I refuse to shop at WalMart, eat at McDonalds, or buy gas from Shell.

The exception to my rule being, of course, being penalized for refusing to buy private insurance under ObamaCare.  But that sorta makes the point.

A great addition to ObamaCare would have been a system where you could register as excepting yourself from having to buy insurance, but if you did register all medical providers would be barred from providing you with medical care.    unless you could pay cash on the barrelhead.


People would figure out how to go into massive debt to get the cash.  Now your problem is destitute people with debt that's never going to be repaid.

Instead, if you're going for the hard ass answer, if they don't want to participate in healthcare we happily will not let them.
 
2013-08-22 02:08:22 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: glmorrs1: HotWingConspiracy: Garet Garrett: theorellior: Garet Garrett: Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.

I have you farkied as "laughable troll", and this is a perfect specimen of what I'm talking about.

So it's trolling in your book to call out "he's a farking asshole who eats babies because he disagrees with a position that the organization he now runs took in the past" for what it was?

He disagrees with his own opinion now.

How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?

You know that episode of Its Always Sunny where Charlie keeps trying to act/talk like a lawyer and obviously has no clue about the legal system? That's what this guy reminds me of.

You are not possibly asserting that he is as smart as Charlie Kelly.


Careful. You've never gone toe to toe with him on bird law.
 
2013-08-22 02:11:28 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Aristocles: IlGreven: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.

Medical costs say otherwise.

It's cheaper to not give Obama money for health insurance and mooch off those who do than the other way around. Of course, the value of the procedure remains the same, but if I'm not picking up the bill, it's cheaper for me.

So you're saying you're a deadbeat.


IOKIYAR.  And take yer damn ebil gubmint hands off his Medicare.
 
2013-08-22 02:13:52 PM

Serious Black: Guess what? ObamaCare does both of those things!


So what?  Your assertion was that he advocated for universal coverage that went BEYOND either ObamaCare or RomneyCare.

Back to you.
 
2013-08-22 02:14:01 PM

zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care


I'm desperately trying to remember the last time a Republican practiced anything even remotely resembling fiscal responsibility.
 
2013-08-22 02:16:02 PM

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.


This is why I resisted commenting here for 10 years. Morons.  Please look above where the quote you address is quoted from.  Goddamn I hate facts.
 
2013-08-22 02:20:59 PM

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

That statement was awesome in its unabashed disregard for reality.  Well done, sir.


This coming from you who said it was ok to lie to make a point.
 
2013-08-22 02:21:23 PM

Esc7: Let me guess, taxation is theft?


The so-called public university that I attended taught that all property is theft.  But that has different implications, doesn't it?

But no, I don't believe that taxation is theft.  But you don't have to be a hard-core libertarian to believe that all government action, including taxation, is inherently coercive, as it's always done with the background threat of force (what happens if you don't get a permit to fix your septic system?  and then refuse to pay the fine?).  Likewise, that that's the key difference between cooperative action on the so-called private level and cooperative action on the so-called public level.  If you have a more basic distinction, I'd love to hear it.
 
2013-08-22 02:22:52 PM

whtriced: Please look above where the quote you address is quoted from.


You're coming a bit late to this particular party.  But your drive-by, gratuitous swipe is noted.
 
2013-08-22 02:25:08 PM

Corvus: This coming from you who said it was ok to lie to make a point.


See, and that's why it's not nice to put words in other people's mouths.  If using sarcasm now equals "lying is ok," I think we have to set that aside as an argument around here as being too universal for comment.
 
2013-08-22 02:25:10 PM
My mother is the one in my family who actually tried this "ER's are required to treat them; why not just go there?" soundbite that's been circulating for about 20 years now. I replied, "Because there's no such thing as emergency chemotherapy."

Have you ever actually SEEN a paradigm shifting without a clutch? We throw around the phrase "cognitive dissonance" a lot, but watching someone's entire belief system come crashing down in a few seconds really is a marvel to see.

Usually, what you get is some sort of "backfire effect," where the person debating the point immediately whips up a rationale so that they don't have to experience that discomfort, and wind up clinging to their beliefs even more tightly. But Republican defense of the current health care system, in the face of overwhelming evidence, is so brittle, so fragile, so desperate that the only defense they have is "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

I didn't even have to add my other soundbites: that our current medical system boils down to "kill the unworthy," that those who can't pay wind up subsidized by those who can so it's sort of socialized anyway, or that she's advocating a sort of economic triage where people with medical issues avoid dealing with them until they become more expensive, adding further burdens to the system. I know it's probably wrong to debate this way - dueling bumper stickers - but it shouldn't be this EASY. I'm not saying Mother became a staunch defender of Obamacare, but it's pretty clear that she has no idea what to think about it now. She had other people doing her thinking for her for the longest time, and it was nice and comfy and cozy. Now she's just confused.
 
2013-08-22 02:25:50 PM
There was an interesting article in the Post the other day which suggested that since the ACA contains such a broad range of policies and since Republicans have committed to the tack of not supporting any policy which shares common ground with it, this basically leaves them in the position of rejecting the entire concept of insurance and supporting cash-only medical care.

Which perfectly explains DeMint's point of view.
 
2013-08-22 02:29:42 PM

Stile4aly: There was an interesting article in the Post the other day which suggested that since the ACA contains such a broad range of policies and since Republicans have committed to the tack of not supporting any policy which shares common ground with it, this basically leaves them in the position of rejecting the entire concept of insurance and supporting cash-only medical care.


And let's hope that leaves them dumped on the landfill of history in short order.
 
2013-08-22 02:31:07 PM

Garet Garrett: Serious Black: Guess what? ObamaCare does both of those things!

So what?  Your assertion was that he advocated for universal coverage that went BEYOND either ObamaCare or RomneyCare.


So DeMint opposed ObamaCare because it didn't go far enough? He didn't oppose it because it was the biggest unconstitutional breach of liberty that the American government has ever implemented? That's news to me.

Back to you.

Back to me for what, exactly?
 
2013-08-22 02:34:14 PM

Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."


So, when Bush was President, he hated the idea of 'free riders' so much so that he hoped that a comprehensive program for healthcare could be put together.  But now that we have Pres. Obama, he thinks we need to go back to the allowing the 'free riders' to exist, and thinks it's a good idea?

Truly, he has a dizzying intellect.

/not really
 
2013-08-22 02:34:48 PM

Serious Black: Back to me for what, exactly?


He's rubber and you're glue, or something like that.
 
2013-08-22 02:36:58 PM

Skanque: Ring of Fire: My wife is a nurse at a hospital emergency room. The amount of people that come in for bullshiat because the ER has to treat them is unreal. It slows down the EMERGENCY room and people that really need treatment cant get it. Her hospital is currently laying off people because they lost $30mil last year. The amount of unpaid ER bills was over $150 mil.
Republicans think this is a fantastic system. It's not.

The last time I had to go to the emergency room (about 7 year ago), I was amazed at how long I had to wait to get my gaping hand wound stitched up.  "It's cool guy, just wait here and stare inside your hand at the fancy tendons and muscle.  Consider it an educational experience."

If Jim DeMint gets his way, I can have an even more educational experience while waiting behind the uninsured guy with a hamster up his butt.


Agreed.

The The last time I was in the ER was for severe dehydration. I'm normally incredibly thin but my stomach was so swollen that I looked severely pregnant. I couldn't keep anything down. My stomach was so sore that I couldn't stand up or sit comfortably so I'd pace. I waited in the ER for several hours until my blood pressure bottomed out. They couldn't get a read but, having no beds, they stashed me in a private waiting room with morphine and a banana bag.

The ER should NOT be used as an alternative to Obamacare.
 
2013-08-22 02:37:03 PM

Aristocles: Raharu: Aristocles: Because it's cheaper.


Greetings Confirmed Birther troll account created at the height of the Zimmerman trial, would you care to back up your assertions with some citations today, or was this just you shiatting the thread again?

why should you be forced to give potato your bootstraps?


FTFY
 
2013-08-22 02:38:29 PM

Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."


What is his reply when he's confronted with these words that he said, and the policies he previously advocated?
 
2013-08-22 02:39:10 PM

Stile4aly: There was an interesting article in the Post the other day which suggested that since the ACA contains such a broad range of policies and since Republicans have committed to the tack of not supporting any policy which shares common ground with it, this basically leaves them in the position of rejecting the entire concept of insurance and supporting cash-only medical care.

Which perfectly explains DeMint's point of view.


Aaron Carroll wrote up his thoughts about that article and hammered on various GOP-leaning groups and people for making the formerly bipartisan goal of universal coverage impossible.
 
2013-08-22 02:39:15 PM

Huggermugger: Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."

What is his reply when he's confronted with these words that he said, and the policies he previously advocated?


Probably pulling down his pants, punching the person in the face, and jumping out of the nearest window.
 
2013-08-22 02:39:22 PM

Garet Garrett: Esc7: Let me guess, taxation is theft?

The so-called public university that I attended taught that all property is theft.


No it didn't.

Why do you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?
 
2013-08-22 02:42:31 PM
And let's see what the Heritage Foundation had to say about the individual mandate when it.....wait for it....first proposed the individual mandate:


Many states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own protection. Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance. But neither the federal government nor any state requires all households to protect themselves from the potentially catastrophic costs of a serious accident or illness. Under the Heritage plan, there would be such a requirement.

This mandate is based on two important principles.  First, that health care protection is a responsibility of individuals, not businesses. Thus to the extent that anybody should be required to provide coverage to a family, the household mandate assumes that it is the family that carries the first responsibility. Second, it assumes that there is an implicit contract between households and society, based on the notion that health insurance is not like other forms of insurance protection. If a young man wrecks his Porsche and has not had the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate but society feels no obligation to repair his car. But health care is different.  If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we may be angry but we will not deny him services-even if that means more prudent citizens end up paying the tab.

A mandate on individuals recognizes this implicit contract. Society does feel a moral obligation to insure that its citizens do not suffer from the unavailability of health care. But on the other hand, each household has the obligation, to the extent it is able, to avoid placing demands on society by protecting itself...

A mandate on households certainly would force those with adequate means to obtain insurance protection,  which would end the problem of middle-class "free riders" on society's sense of obligation.
 
2013-08-22 02:43:26 PM

djkutch: I wish the GOP shrills would offer an alternative plan to Obamacare.  Maybe they are too busy with laser like focus on job creation?


They're still trying to eliminate medicare and social security.

I don't think they want to replace it. They just want to end it.
 
2013-08-22 02:45:07 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Garet Garrett: Esc7: Let me guess, taxation is theft?

The so-called public university that I attended taught that all property is theft.

No it didn't.

Why do you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?


It sounds better than liar on the internet?
 
2013-08-22 02:46:23 PM

qorkfiend: zarberg: You'd think that bastion of fiscal responsibility known as the Republican party would want the less expensive preventative care

I'm desperately trying to remember the last time a Republican practiced anything even remotely resembling fiscal responsibility.


They don't really even practice fiscal conservatism, anymore.

/Which is a similar, but different concept from fiscal responsibility.
 
2013-08-22 02:58:50 PM

IlGreven: Serious Black: Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.

Since I'm sure somebody will ask for a citation, here's part of a letter he signed and sent to President Bush in 2007:

"We would like to work with [President Bush] and your administration to pass legislation in this Congress that would ensure that all Americans would have affordable, quality, private health coverage, while protecting current government programs. We believe the health care system cannot be fixed without providing solutions for everyone. Otherwise, the costs of those without insurance will continue to be shifted to those who do have coverage."

Key word. The only real change to Obamacare is this word to "public"...but that makes all the difference in the world.

/Private good, Public baaaaaad.
//Which is why we let private megacorps get away with things we'd excoriate the eeeeeeeebil gubmint for.


Are you kidding? I farking wish Obamacare was public health care. The damn thing still rests on the backs of private insurers for all of us who don't qualify for Medicare.

Obamacare is the same plan the Heritage Foundation proposed, the same plan Romney implemented, the same plan DeMint begged for... but it was implemented by the other team, so it's the greatest evil since the Holocaust.
 
2013-08-22 03:00:38 PM

AurizenDarkstar: Truly, he has a dizzying intellect.

/not really


Oh, I don't know. I think a dizzying intellect is a good way to describe him. After all, that much spinning would certainly make me dizzy.
 
2013-08-22 03:05:14 PM

Bontesla: djkutch: I wish the GOP shrills would offer an alternative plan to Obamacare.  Maybe they are too busy with laser like focus on job creation?

They're still trying to eliminate medicare and social security.

I don't think they want to replace it. They just want to end it.


It's hard for the Republicans to offer a Republican alternative when ObamaCare is the Republican alternative.
 
2013-08-22 03:10:34 PM

Garet Garrett: Esc7: Let me guess, taxation is theft?

The so-called public university that I attended taught that all property is theft.  But that has different implications, doesn't it?

But no, I don't believe that taxation is theft.  But you don't have to be a hard-core libertarian to believe that all government action, including taxation, is inherently coercive, as it's always done with the background threat of force (what happens if you don't get a permit to fix your septic system?  and then refuse to pay the fine?).  Likewise, that that's the key difference between cooperative action on the so-called private level and cooperative action on the so-called public level.  If you have a more basic distinction, I'd love to hear it.


Government action is not inherently coercive - so long as the true power in government is still in the hands of the voters. I swear, if I hear this "gun to my head..." argument one more time...

Government action isn't inherently coercive because the right to debate and to vote still exists. We can debate whether or not the cherished illusion of freedom is still a thing in the United States, or if it ever was, but the fact that you have the power to create a movement robs the government of its coercive power. You're just too lazy, helpless, or whiny to actually do it.

On the other hand, the idea that private transactions are FREEDOM and public transactions are TYRANNY is such a wonderful, oversimplified falsehood that I almost feel bad popping that bubble for you. Private transactions are only freedom in the presence of perfect knowledge, and I don't trust any corporate entity to provide me with perfect knowledge. The idea that people vote with their dollars, and won't patronize companies that do harm, might be accurate for microtransactions down at the feed store, but they don't really apply to corporate behemoths that don't have the end-consumer in mind when they produce their products.

And public transactions have more freedom than you might think. Any action is "freedom" to someone willing to take the consequences for performing it. During my protest days, I was more than willing to spend a night in the tank to make what I felt was an important point.

I don't believe in Big Government, but I do believe in a government big enough to check-and-balance other institutions (churches, corporations, landlords) out to exercise their authority over me. Governance is not a zero-sum game. Not every law is a freedom lost.
 
2013-08-22 03:12:58 PM

Serious Black: He actually went further than advocating for Romneycare. Jim DeMint advocated for completely universal and mandated coverage, which goes beyond what Romneycare (or Obamacare) does.


If he did that on a day ending in -y that's not news, that's standard Republican operating procedure.
 
2013-08-22 03:16:44 PM
Actually, I'm not surprised that Conservatives are now disavowing their original health care solution that we know call Obamacare.  I don't believe they ever really supported it but rather just came up with something in opposition to Hillarycare.  I think they really just like the status quo.
 
2013-08-22 06:20:53 PM

Bontesla: djkutch: I wish the GOP shrills would offer an alternative plan to Obamacare.  Maybe they are too busy with laser like focus on job creation?

They're still trying to eliminate medicare and social security.

I don't think they want to replace it. They just want to end it.


I agree. I think they want government monies spent only on areas that will generate cash for stockholders, such as "defense," instead -- because wars and defense are big, big moneymakers for private industry (aka, their campaign donors). Granted, universal health coverage could eliminate a big financial burden from businesses who would no longer have to offer health care options to their employees. But hey, why worry about those chumps when you can rake in big bucks from the stock market?

/When's the last time a politician mentioned "the American Standard of Living" as a benefit of being a citizen, and stressed that we must raise those standards?
 
2013-08-22 06:46:00 PM

Garet Garrett: Satanic_Hamster: Right wingers; These are your leaders and heroes.  Unabashed liars and bullshiatters.  Defend this bullshiat, you trolling lying farks.  Defend your leader and hero Jim DeMint.

DO IT.

DO IT.

Just as soon as you admit that Obama was a knuckle-dragging homophobe until a few months ago.


Sure thing. I, as an official libtard (voted Green Party in 2012 and voted against the Republican/Teatard ticket across the board in Indiana state races), think the President was completely and totally bass-ackwards on gay rights until he decided to support equal marriage rights due to political pressure and encouragement from the Vice President. Barack Obama was wrong on that issue, and then he changed his mind.

Your turn.
 
2013-08-22 06:59:35 PM
I love seeing these A-Holes wriggle on the hook.
 
2013-08-22 09:57:26 PM

Bontesla: djkutch: I wish the GOP shrills would offer an alternative plan to Obamacare.  Maybe they are too busy with laser like focus on job creation?

They're still trying to eliminate medicare and social security.

I don't think they want to replace it. They just want to end it.


If they had a way to convince seniors that Social Security and Medicare were apocalyptic threats to America, they'd abolish those programs tomorrow.
 
2013-08-23 12:58:38 AM
DeMint is a think tank whore.
 
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