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(The New York Times)   US circumcision rate has been cut   (well.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 52
    More: Obvious, United States, National Center for Health Statistics, circumcisions, legal burden of proof  
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3500 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 03:03:28 PM  
4 votes:
Assertion1) Penises look odd no matter what
Assertion 2) Clean your penis, no matter what
Assertion 3) People who make other people feel bad for the choice their parents made for them at birth are suck bags and deserve a case of the clap
Assertion 4) If a woman is so shallow she's willing to break up with you based on your foreskin status alone, she's not a keeper... not even a candidate for a brief fling, in my book
Assertion 5) Ladies- calling one or the other gross or even stating a strong preference is like a guy doing the same thing with boob size or labia size or any other number of things you have no control over.  It's certainly your perogative to do so but think how a guy comes off with such vocal opinions on lady bits before you do.

Discuss.
2013-08-22 01:45:54 PM  
3 votes:
It frightens and disgusts me that so many people are adamant that knives be taken to infants' genitals.
2013-08-22 01:26:38 PM  
3 votes:
as a female who'd only had sex with circumcised men until i met my current boyfriend/future husband, who is intact, i have to say that without a doubt uncut is better.  i'd been one of those "it's cleaner/looks better" kind of believers until i met my guy.  it's different in a better way for him and me. unless you know, you don't know and i can't describe it without getting explicit.

/it seems that this is one topic where men care what women think, about dicks.
2013-08-22 12:41:23 PM  
3 votes:

Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?


That, and a large number of modern psychohipster parents (the type who also think diapers are wrong and that having the baby shiat and piss on the streets, in the sink, or in a vase in the living room is "more natural", along with other weird parenting ideas) aren't having it done because they saw a web documentary on it and they think it's the counter-culture, new-world, enlightened thing to do.

I, for one, am grateful that my parents had it done. Call it my western aesthetic values, if you wish, but I just think it looks better, and so have my partners.
2013-08-23 12:23:22 AM  
2 votes:

mesmer242: Those numbers fall under the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" end of things. They only count circumcisions done in hospitals - not those done in religious ceremonies or in doctor's offices. There's reason to believe there's been a decrease, but there's also reason to believe that more people are having circumcisions done outside of a hospital setting. So the real numbers are unknown.


You want a number?  here's a number:  117 dead U.S. babies, on average, per year, from circumcision:

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/b64n267w47m333x0/?p=7452e7641b4f4 a6 b9a8c3e986bcd8c1e&pi=5
2013-08-22 06:09:25 PM  
2 votes:
I love people make the argument that scar-tissue-covered genitals are more visually appealing than natural ones. Scar tissue. Sexy.
2013-08-22 03:24:18 PM  
2 votes:

Warning, Not safe for lunch or work:
http://youtu.be/m_zkKciuIpA?t=2m28s
...


http://muppetsmom.blogspot. com/2010_06_01_archive.html

A Nursing Student is Introduced to Circumcision
by: Darlene Owen

I wouldn't say that I'm fanatical about it or anything, but I do have a very strong opinion about it, and am completely against it. I strongly believe in genital integrity for both, females and males.

I'm talking about circumcision.

I had never given it much thought before, until as a nursing student I actually saw a circumcision performed on a two day old, male infant. After witnessing the procedure, I began to question this very unnecessary procedure, and tried to reason what I can only describe as torture that was carried out on that innocent little baby who had no voice, no one to help him.

Witnessing that circumcision led me to educate myself as much as I could on the topic, and question a lot of the myths surrounding circumcision, and discover the actual truths.

I grew up like everyone else with the very wrong mis-conception that circumcisions were "no big deal", and were "cleaner, healthier" etc.

I was in my second year of nursing and looking forward to my clinical rotation in Labour and Delivery since it was the area I was most interested in, and knew most likely would be the career path I would take in nursing.

It was my second day on the unit, when the nurse I was following and observing, informed me that I would be helping her to assist a doctor that morning with a circumcision.

My nurse and I set up for the procedure and talked about what was to be involved. My nurse made it sound as though it was a very minor procedure and quite simple really.

I went with the nurse to the mom's room that was having her son circumcised that morning. The nurse asked the infants' parents if they had any questions, both parents simply replied, "no". If only they knew what their poor little baby was in for.

The nurse asked the parents if they wished to be present during the circumcision and watch the procedure performed. Neither parent was interested, so we then headed with the baby in her arms to the "procedure room", which was simply... the nursery.

The nurse unswaddled the calm, sleeping baby, and proceeded to undress him. The baby began to fuss a little since it was a little cold in the room, and I'm sure he didn't appreciate being unwrapped and removed from his warm, cozy blankets.

The nurse then layed the now naked infant down on a hard plastic body board and strapped down his arms and legs. The baby was crying very hard now, trying to fight having his arms and legs strapped down in such a straight unnatural position for a newborn.

The doctor then walked in, and was very friendly when the nurse introduced me and informed him that I was a nursing student who was joining them that morning to observe. While the doctor was talking to me, he seemed impervious to the now screaming infant. I wasn't even really hearing the doctor at that point, all I kept thinking was, 'Someone please unstrap that poor little guy, and pick him up and comfort him already.' The doctor saw my obvious distress and smiled and said, "Oh, don't worry about him, he just doesn't like being on the board, he's in no real distress." 'No real distress'? Really? This tiny little newborn was screaming and no one was responding to his cries. He was literally being ignored. I was not impressed so far.

The doctor then draped the infant in surgical drapes which covered his abdomen and legs but exposed his penis. The doctor using a swab, rubbed a solution on the infants' penis explaining what the solution was, and that it works to cause an erection on the infant so that he can grasp his penis easier.

The doctor then grabbed the infants now erect penis with forceps and proceeded to force a sharp instrument into the opening of the penis. The infant was of course screaming the most horrid cry I have ever heard come from an infant. The nurse was proceeding to give him sugar water, which she claimed "helped soothe the baby". This little guy seemed as though he could care less and was choking and gagging on the liquid. He just kept screaming. At times his scream didn't even come out, he was screaming so hard. I felt weak in the knees and had to fight very hard to hold back the tears forming in my eyes.

The doctor had forced the sharp scissor-like instrument into the opening of the baby's penis and was now forcing it open to tear away the foreskin from the glans of the penis. He then grasped the skin with another type of forcep and proceeded to cut at the foreskin. The doctor was talking away and explaining each step, I wasn't even listening. I could not believe the unbelievable distress this baby was in, and no one seemed to care really. I then asked the doctor if he had used any freezing or anything. He simply replied, "No, it's too risky to use on little guys like this." WHAT? So, basically this doctor was hacking skin off of this poor little infants' most sensitive organ, and the infant was experiencing every cut? I remember feeling so disgusted and said to the doctor, "This is barbaric." The doctor said, "Well, that's your opinion, but some parents prefer their boys be cut." All I could think of was, 'Why? Who really cares?'

When the doctor was finished the procedure, the nurse took the now exhausted infant and applied Vaseline and gauze to the infants' very raw, bleeding penis. The infant was no longer crying, but had such a look of shock on his little face. He had just experienced the most horrific pain he will probably ever experience in his entire life.

I was at a loss for words.

The truth about circumcision is that it is not medically necessary.

It is not cleaner.

Studies have proven again and again, that it has no direct relation on cancer etc. as was once thought.

It is also a very painful procedure. The baby does feel it, experience it.

There have been studies that demonstrate actual MRI changes within an infants brain after a circumcision has been performed.

As for those who claim "it looks better", my response is, "Really? Based on who's decision?" A penis with a foreskin is how the penis is  supposed to look.  The foreskin has a function, it providess protection of the very sensitive glans (head) of the penis, and it provides ease during intercourse. During intercourse, the penis moves within its foreskin, preventing rubbing or friction of the vagina, which makes intercourse far more pleasurable for both the man and woman.

Many people will respond in outrage over female circumcision, yet still consider circumcision of males 'the norm'.

Many parents aren't properly informed of the procedure. It  IS a very serious procedure with very many real risks involved. In my experience as a post partum nurse, many parents who were led to believe it was a 'minor' procedure and observed their sons' circumcision, were sickened just as I was at the actual pain and distress it caused their infant. I have had many patients who, after witnessing their first son's circumcision, decided immediately that they would not get any other boys they may have circumcised. Many parents told me that they wished they had known just how painful it would be for their son, that they would not have even considered it if they had known what is actually involved.

As for the argument that many men want their son to look like them, my answer is, Why? It is a stupid argument. Why can't parents simply teach their son that their son's penis is 'normal and healthy', that 'daddy had his normal, healthy functioning skin of his penis removed surgically, unnecessarily'. I also always say to those people, "Really? Well, watch an actual circumcision and see if you still feel that way afterwards." I have yet to see any parent watch a video, or view an actual circumcision procedure, who is not completely against the idea afterwards.

An uncircumcised penis is very easy to keep clean. There is no special care required. The saying goes, "Clean only what is seen".

As for worrying about the son's foreskin not retracting, and needing a circumcision later in life. That actually only occurs in a very, very small number of males. However, even if the male does need the surgery later in life, he will be put to sleep for the procedure and will not feel it. He will also be managed comfortably with pain medication. A newborn doesn't have any of those benefits. A newborn is awake for it, will feel it, and doesn't receive any pain medication.

Ask any grown male if he'd get his penis circumcised while awake, with no freezing, and I guarantee you'd hear a very loud resounding "NO!" Yet, many men will put their newborn son through it. Doesn't make much sense does it?

I realize that at one time it was considered the norm. Now however, with all of the education about it, I can not understand why parents still proceed to put their tiny little newborn son through such a horrific experience.

I am proud to say that I am an intactivist, and the proud mom of two gorgeous, healthy, intact boys.



2013-08-22 02:48:53 PM  
2 votes:

FarkinHostile: Theaetetus: In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision.

This is the one of the most disingenuous arguments for circumcision. EVERY single alleged benefit is easily obtained with basic hygiene and condom use.


That doesn't make it disingenuous, since you admit that it's true. There are also good arguments against relying solely on condoms.

All without an unnecessary, dangerous, unethical surgical alteration on an unconsenting baby.

Now that's a disingenuous argument. If your argument relies on your personal opinion and bias, rather than facts, you're not going to persuade anyone except yourself.

Shall I link to reported statistics on circumcision accidents, including penis amputation, massive infection and death? I'm pretty sure the little boys who had their dicks cut off or who died would have liked the choice to wash it instead.

By all means, Mrs. Lovejoy. Statistics would be far better than your table pounding and "think of the children!"-ing.

Pull out a small handful of worthless studies conducted in sub-surhran Africa funded by biased religious groups and I'll point and laugh.

We already did this in the last thread. Remember? You're the idiot who thinks that America, Europe, and China are in sub-Saharan Africa. The one who fled the thread, never to return, when it was pointed out that you don't actually read any links when you attempt to refute them.
2013-08-22 01:15:10 PM  
2 votes:

Nurglitch: I'm personally offended that people don't crush the left testicle of their offspring with a rock, like all right-thinking human beings.


Not this old granite versus limestone debate....again!

/congratulations, America, on the slight reduction in your rate of infant genital mutilation.
2013-08-22 01:10:55 PM  
2 votes:

Target Builder: ZeroCorpse: Call it my western aesthetic values

There's only one western country where circumcision is common.


And I live in it, therefore, I'm glad my cock fits the American ideal of what is aesthetically pleasing to the women I've known, all of whom also lived in America with American aesthetic values (even the immigrants). I'm glad my parents' decision makes my current fiancee very happy. I'm glad I don't have to clean smegma out of my foreskin, too.

I certainly don't feel "mutilated" by any definition of the word. "Grateful" is a more fitting word.
2013-08-22 12:48:24 PM  
2 votes:
I'm personally offended that people don't crush the left testicle of their offspring with a rock, like all right-thinking human beings.
2013-08-23 03:16:21 PM  
1 votes:
Arguments against circumcision and the reasons why I did it anyway:

1. It's mutilation -- If my son were born with an extra non-functioning finger on his hand and the doctor asked if I wanted to cut it off, of course I would.

2. It's unnatural -- Foreskins are about as useful to our species as wisdom teeth and appendixes.  We're not pants-less cavemen walking around in the woods anymore.

3. It's medically unnecessary -- But it's helpful.  I certainly don't want to have to worry about my infant son's penile health if I don't have to.  Just like if doctors came up with a medical procedure to remove wisdom teeth soon after birth with a couple of cuts, who wouldn't jump on that for their child?  "You should wait until he's an adult (when his teeth are compacted, required surgery and braces) so that he can make that decision for himself."  Nope.

4. It decreases sensitivity -- Thank FSM!  My wife would have left me by now if I were any more sensitive down there.

5. It's just a Western thing -- And I'm in the Western world.

6. Women like an uncut man -- That does not seem to be the opinion of most women I know.  Or porn.  And if we've learned anything from VHS and Blu-ray, porn dictates all.

7. It should be your child's decision when they are an adult -- I feel like I've done my son a favor because that favor was done for me.  I am very happy with the results and have never once - I repeat, NEVER ONCE - felt self-conscious about being circumcised.  How many circumcised guys out there can say that? (Judging by some of the locker room stories in this thread, not many.)   It's Pascals Wager.

Think of it this way. Most women don't care if you have ripped abs or not.  Some women prefer a guy with ripped abs.  But I've never seen a woman turn down a guy BECAUSE he has ripped abs.

Same with foreskins: some women don't care either way, some women are grossed out by them, but I have yet to find a woman who rejects a guy (In ANY country) BECAUSE he's cut.

So why wouldn't I?
2013-08-23 07:04:52 AM  
1 votes:

jaymze69: Unfortunately I'm still very scared of starting a new relationship because let's be honest, the vast majority of women prefer uncut and think anything else is disgusting. I don't blame them for it, that's all they know.


You do realize that if you want to you're an adult and you can have yourself circumcised for your own reasons now, right? Nobody's arguing that adults who want to alter their own penises shouldn't be able to.

Amos Quito: As for your condition, there are several options to explore with your physician. If he immediately suggests circumcision, go see another doctor, and another.


Yeah, phimosis is treatable and it doesn't necessarily require complete removal of the foreskin. I know one guy who had it and did eventually get surgical correction, but instead of circumcising him, they just made the opening bigger so he could retract his foreskin without problems. He's still got all his parts, and they work great.

MmmVomit: Call me crazy, but you don't have to remind most boys to vigorously rub their penis in the shower.


FTFY.

PunGent: That's not been my experience. Slept with 40+ women, mostly American, mostly in the Northeast, and not one complaint about my foreskin.

You need to date better women.


shiat yeah. Female, American, from the Northeast here. Give me uncut every day.

PunGent: You want a number? here's a number: 117 dead U.S. babies, on average, per year, from circumcision:


Pity, because it could be zero. It should be zero. All we have to do is stop unnecessarily cutting up infant penis.
2013-08-22 07:50:08 PM  
1 votes:
My son is six. We didn't have a piece of him cut off shortly after birth because it is his body and there was no medical reason to do so. If he wants to change its appearance when he's old enough to make an informed decision himself, that's up to him, but we were not going to put a child through cosmetic surgery that has barely statistically significant 'health benefits' that can be managed by basic hygiene and common sense.

I've read a lot of the literature myself (love me some pubmed) and have found nothing compelling. Penile cancer is very rare to begin with (remember, absolute risk is far more important to look at than relative risk.) Additionally, HPV vaccination for boys can reduce penile (and anal and throat) cancer risk as around half of penile cancers are attributable to HPV.

UTIs? Yeah, no. They are uncommon in males to begin with, and while slightly more common in uncircumcised males, there was no way we were going to put our child through a surgery that removes a significant part of his penile skin on the off chance it might prevent a week of antibiotics sometime during his life. Girls get them far more, but we don't surgically alter our daughters to prevent them.

The minute risk reduction for already uncommon things for which risks can be mediated non-surgically like with vaccination, condom use, and basic hygiene (really not hard to teach) as compared to the potential loss of sensation, potential loss of years of normal sexual function, and the (small but present) risk of serious adverse outcomes, it was a no-brainer. Beyond that, it is HIS body, not mine, not his father's and children have the right not to be subject to unnecessary medical procedures (even if their parents think it looks better.)
2013-08-22 06:51:14 PM  
1 votes:

Nana's Vibrator: Amos Quito:Did they perform the surgery for free - as a humanitarian gesture?

What? They GOT PAID?

Did they also offer an extended warranty?

Actually it wasn't on the bill and was done in minutes in the same building without needing a second appointment or visit.  Otherwise, my only response to your awkward presence in this thread is:
I'm sorry you're so uncomfortable with your weird penis.  I hope it isn't as small as it is weird.



Heh!

Earlier I said that "many (most?) of the pro-chop hacks are religious/ethnic zealots who fear that one day their precious barbaric ritual will one day be outlawed."

I should add another common category: Those that hacked their kids' weenies when they were infants, and now feel compelled to argue in defense of that cruel, brutal decision because it is easier that having to deal with their conscience, and face up to the reality that they made a horrible mistake.

Would you be in the former category, the latter, or both, Nana's Vibrator?
2013-08-22 06:36:45 PM  
1 votes:

mbillips: . Considering that the glans is about a zillion times more sensitive than the foreskin, and that the foreskin uncovers the glans during full erection, it seems unlikely that there's any actual impairment in sensation.



It's not about how sensitive the foreskin is. The thing is, that foreskin covers the sensitive bits when you are NOT having sex, therefore preventing a gradual desensitization from constant friction.


The worst circs are the ones that are too aggressive and cause the hair that should be on the scrotum to end up halfway up the shaft.  HATE THAT!  Hair does not naturally grow on the shaft.

I also think it's bizarre when the top 2-3 inches are a completely different color than the rest.
2013-08-22 06:03:55 PM  
1 votes:
Know what?  fark you guys.  I like my cock just as it is.  These circumcision farkers are just like these magazines that try to make women feel bad about their appearance, and induce teenage girls to starve themselves.  Bunch of farking animals, all of you.  Stay off of my cock.
2013-08-22 05:45:27 PM  
1 votes:

The_Sponge: TEAM HELMET

/Like the fact that I don't look like Eurotrash when nekkid.


We just eat healthy so we don't need to cut away pieces of out body in order to get small advantages in weight reduction. But hey, whatever works for you.
2013-08-22 05:14:30 PM  
1 votes:

CJHardin: I knew the risk of UTI were small but damn, that's minuscule.


Another thing about WIswell's UTI studies is that they were all done in military hospitals where circumcisions are pretty much automatic, and that in many cases where circumcision is not performed, the foreskin (which is naturally fused to the glans until sometime around puberty) is forcibly retracted causing tears and damage which can lead to...

UTIs.
2013-08-22 04:05:09 PM  
1 votes:

dustygrimp: For those of you worried about the children... It should match dad.  The only damage to be done to the kid is finding out he doesn't match dad.


Err, no.  Go to Google.  Turn off safe search.

Look for "botched circumcision".

Then come back here and try again.

/lawyer buddy of mine did insurance defense work...the ONLY cases they'd settle out of court were botched circs.
2013-08-22 03:28:37 PM  
1 votes:

ng2810: Ugh. The more reason for me NOT to date younger guys. I've been with both cut and uncut guys, and I can say with 100% certainty that I prefer cut guys. No matter how many showers a guy takes or how clean he keeps his stick, in a few hours the smell emitting from the folds of skin are enough to be off-putting. It's hard to give lots of head when you're trying not to gag from the smell.

/bf is very VERY happy....


I have to assume that smell is coming from YOU then.  You see, I'm a bit of a slut and I've had lots and lots of uncuts, and never once had one emit any kind of rank odor, even after hours of activity.  Oral or otherwise.  Perhaps an antibiotic would help, or if you get the smell during oral, a good dental check up.
2013-08-22 03:24:11 PM  
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: Theaetetus: At this point, I just feel sorry for FarkinHostile.

Son, I've seen the pictures you used to have up of you and your wife.


Jeez, man, just because everyone can see you're a liar doesn't mean you have to resort to personal attacks. Particularly when I've never had any pictures in my profile.

Everyone who has any interest will just read the old thread, check out your links, and see whats up.

Yep, and it's quoted above, too. They can see you insisting that a study on Europe, Africa, and America covers "sub-Saharan Africa".

Dude, seriously. You're turning into a joke. Step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath.
2013-08-22 03:12:32 PM  
1 votes:
At this point, I just feel sorry for FarkinHostile. While a normal person would say, "gosh, you're right, I didn't read your link. I thought you meant some other study, not this new one," he instead doubles down and insists that Europe, China, and America are in Africa. That takes some serious insecurity.
2013-08-22 03:11:05 PM  
1 votes:

FarkinHostile: Theaetetus: We already did this in the last thread. Remember? You're the idiot who thinks that America, Europe, and China are in sub-Saharan Africa. The one who fled the thread, never to return, when it was pointed out that you don't actually read any links when you attempt to refute them.

You DO know that threads are archived, right?

http://m.fark.com/comments/7869926/It-looks-like-there-might-actuall y- be-some-women-out-there-willing-to-give-uncircumcised-men-a-blowjob?st artid=85694765


Yes, I do. Do you?

Me: "Oh, and just for good measure, here's a 2011 study to counter your letter from two decades ago:
There was a strong protective effect of childhood/adolescent circumcision on invasive penile cancer (OR = 0.33; 95% CI 0.13-0.83; 3 studies).
"

You: "Be honest, you don't even read the links, do you? You google quickly, then when you find something you THINK backs your position, you post it. These Sub-Saharan African studies, funded by religious groups, are so not applicable to the west it's not funny, but some nitwit always breaks them out in these threads.

Don't bother linking any more studies from the 1960s in Africa. You've already shown how worthless they, and you, are."


The actual study:
Description of eligible papers
The eight papers evaluating the effect of circumcision on penile cancer included one cross-sectional study and seven case-control studies (Table 1). Study populations were from Europe (n = 4), the United States (n = 3), and China (n = 1).


Your response:
s3.amazonaws.com
2013-08-22 02:37:24 PM  
1 votes:

Mr. Eugenides: Me, I'm pro choice and I'm fine with whatever the parents decide.


While the one who actually suffers has no say in the matter.
2013-08-22 02:33:44 PM  
1 votes:

Theaetetus: In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision.


This is the one of the most disingenuous arguments for circumcision. EVERY single alleged benefit is easily obtained with basic hygiene and condom use. All without an unnecessary, dangerous, unethical surgical alteration on an unconsenting baby. Shall I link to reported statistics on circumcision accidents, including penis amputation, massive infection and death? I'm pretty sure the little boys who had their dicks cut off or who died would have liked the choice to wash it instead.

Pull out a small handful of worthless studies conducted in sub-surhran Africa funded by biased religious groups and I'll point and laugh.

Eh, you know what? The war is being won and this barbaric cultural ritual is slowly dying out. This is good news.
2013-08-22 02:20:04 PM  
1 votes:
Uncut, and happy that way.
2013-08-22 02:13:31 PM  
1 votes:

thegrievingmole: And not needing lube for masturbation.


This is what uncircumcised people actually believe.
2013-08-22 01:55:45 PM  
1 votes:

megarian: CJHardin: Theaetetus: CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?

She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.

Good thing I didn't intend it to be a troll.  I have met the type of women in real life that would call an uncircumcised penis gross and also condemn female genital mutilation.  I don't understand it.  I do understand that his anecdote did not include her thoughts on the other matter but I would guess that she would not say that uncut labia are gross.  Both procedures are mutilation in my opinion so I am taken aback by her view that an unmutilated penis is in her view "gross".  So sorry I voiced my snark and asked what is in my opinion a relevant question on your internets.

You do know that female genital mutilation is mostly done so a female can't experience pleasure from sex, right? It's not about aesthetics or cleanliness. It's about girls that likes sex = whore.


I am aware that female genital mutilation is done for that purpose.  I would go so far as to say that the origins of male circumcision was brought about for some of the same reasons but it became more commonplace as many religions advocate them and they inevitably became the norm and was considered aesthetically pleasing.   As far as cleanliness I nor any male I know has had a problem allotting time to clean his penis.  It seems the major difference in those that are cut and the ones that are not is that those who are uncut have more nerve endings remaining on their penis  and tend to report that they enjoy sex more.  The end effect of the circumcision is loss of sensitivity any way you slice it.  Pun intended.

I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.
2013-08-22 01:51:22 PM  
1 votes:

megarian: CJHardin: Theaetetus: CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?

She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.

Good thing I didn't intend it to be a troll.  I have met the type of women in real life that would call an uncircumcised penis gross and also condemn female genital mutilation.  I don't understand it.  I do understand that his anecdote did not include her thoughts on the other matter but I would guess that she would not say that uncut labia are gross.  Both procedures are mutilation in my opinion so I am taken aback by her view that an unmutilated penis is in her view "gross".  So sorry I voiced my snark and asked what is in my opinion a relevant question on your internets.

You do know that female genital mutilation is mostly done so a female can't experience pleasure from sex, right? It's not about aesthetics or cleanliness. It's about girls that likes sex = whore.


Yeah. Uhm. About that. You *are* aware of the motivations behind the early male circumcision movement in the US, right? Just mentioning it, you know. To save you from embarrassment. An' all.

/ *cough*
2013-08-22 01:43:15 PM  
1 votes:

CJHardin: Theaetetus: CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?

She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.

Good thing I didn't intend it to be a troll.  I have met the type of women in real life that would call an uncircumcised penis gross and also condemn female genital mutilation.  I don't understand it.  I do understand that his anecdote did not include her thoughts on the other matter but I would guess that she would not say that uncut labia are gross.  Both procedures are mutilation in my opinion so I am taken aback by her view that an unmutilated penis is in her view "gross".  So sorry I voiced my snark and asked what is in my opinion a relevant question on your internets.


You do know that female genital mutilation is mostly done so a female can't experience pleasure from sex, right? It's not about aesthetics or cleanliness. It's about girls that likes sex = whore.
2013-08-22 01:31:30 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: It should be in your passport. Wait. You Americans don't have those either.


Don't need them. Soon, you Europeans won't either.
2013-08-22 01:25:49 PM  
1 votes:

CJHardin: Theaetetus: CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?

She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.

Good thing I didn't intend it to be a troll.  I have met the type of women in real life that would call an uncircumcised penis gross and also condemn female genital mutilation.  I don't understand it.


Hey, I've met people who real life who think tuna fish is gross and also prefer PCs. I don't understand it. But I rarely attempt to imply any correlation or other link between the two.
2013-08-22 01:25:21 PM  
1 votes:
Those numbers fall under the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" end of things. They only count circumcisions done in hospitals - not those done in religious ceremonies or in doctor's offices. There's reason to believe there's been a decrease, but there's also reason to believe that more people are having circumcisions done outside of a hospital setting. So the real numbers are unknown.
2013-08-22 01:18:38 PM  
1 votes:

thegrievingmole: CJHardin: ddam: Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?

Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.

I'm sure he will thank you for the additional 20,000 nerve endings when he is old enough to make that decision for himself.

And not needing lube for masturbation.


I am cut and I don't need any.
2013-08-22 01:18:02 PM  
1 votes:

Theaetetus: CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?

She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.


Good thing I didn't intend it to be a troll.  I have met the type of women in real life that would call an uncircumcised penis gross and also condemn female genital mutilation.  I don't understand it.  I do understand that his anecdote did not include her thoughts on the other matter but I would guess that she would not say that uncut labia are gross.  Both procedures are mutilation in my opinion so I am taken aback by her view that an unmutilated penis is in her view "gross".  So sorry I voiced my snark and asked what is in my opinion a relevant question on your internets.
2013-08-22 01:12:50 PM  
1 votes:
Midwives are smart, and don't believe in genital mutilation.
2013-08-22 01:10:33 PM  
1 votes:

Civchic: God Is My Co-Pirate: Nana's Vibrator: Call it bias or whatever, but after both my sons were born, the doctors at the hospital made a strong case for circumcision and essentially told us we would simply be wrong by choosing otherwise.  I confess, I tended to believe the doctors in the hospital that was ranked #1 in the US (#2 behind Hopkins this year)

Our doctor pretty much told us not to, very much "well of course it's your decision but there's no good reason to, you'll have to pay out of pocket and schedule a separate appointment."

I had a midwife, it didn't even come up in discussion.  I guess if I'd wanted it done, we would have discussed, but noone in either my or my husband's family is cut (white as they come Canadians, all of us).  It seems completely unnecessary.


It follows that if you have a midwife, you're probably not going to be following traditional medicinal guidelines.
2013-08-22 01:09:55 PM  
1 votes:
I don't think cosmetic surgery on newborns is that great an idea...keep it clean and ur gtg. Same as teaching little girls how to wipe...keep it clean!
2013-08-22 01:09:30 PM  
1 votes:

CJHardin: Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote

Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?


She probably thinks that it's a different question, and only a troll would attempt to conflate the two.
2013-08-22 01:07:53 PM  
1 votes:

Civchic: God Is My Co-Pirate: Nana's Vibrator: Call it bias or whatever, but after both my sons were born, the doctors at the hospital made a strong case for circumcision and essentially told us we would simply be wrong by choosing otherwise.  I confess, I tended to believe the doctors in the hospital that was ranked #1 in the US (#2 behind Hopkins this year)

Our doctor pretty much told us not to, very much "well of course it's your decision but there's no good reason to, you'll have to pay out of pocket and schedule a separate appointment."

I had a midwife, it didn't even come up in discussion.  I guess if I'd wanted it done, we would have discussed, but noone in either my or my husband's family is cut (white as they come Canadians, all of us).  It seems completely unnecessary.


Yeah, up here in Canada there really is a big trend away from it.
2013-08-22 01:06:10 PM  
1 votes:
Penises are MUCH sexier uncircumcised.
2013-08-22 01:03:29 PM  
1 votes:

God Is My Co-Pirate: Nana's Vibrator: Call it bias or whatever, but after both my sons were born, the doctors at the hospital made a strong case for circumcision and essentially told us we would simply be wrong by choosing otherwise.  I confess, I tended to believe the doctors in the hospital that was ranked #1 in the US (#2 behind Hopkins this year)

Our doctor pretty much told us not to, very much "well of course it's your decision but there's no good reason to, you'll have to pay out of pocket and schedule a separate appointment."


I had a midwife, it didn't even come up in discussion.  I guess if I'd wanted it done, we would have discussed, but noone in either my or my husband's family is cut (white as they come Canadians, all of us).  It seems completely unnecessary.
2013-08-22 12:55:52 PM  
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: I actually dumped a woman who was shewishly insistent that if we had any kids they'd be uncut.


So, you dumped someone because they didn't want their children to be mutilated in the name of an ancient Jewish superstition?

That's, kind of frightening, actually....
2013-08-22 12:53:54 PM  
1 votes:

Kazaa: The more you eat the more you fart: The only thing that REALLY matters is: do women prefer cut or uncut?

After all...thats kinda the only thing that matters lol.

I can say that I went to a party once, and a women quite loudly announced to her friends that she preferred cut, and that uncut felt "gross".  None of the friends objected to the comment.  However, I think most of them couldn't believe she said it that loudly.

/loud music
//anecdote is anecdote


Quote fail:  sigh.

I wonder what her thoughts on the aesthetics of female genital mutilation are?
2013-08-22 12:49:37 PM  
1 votes:

ddam: Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?

Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.


I'm sure he will thank you for the additional 20,000 nerve endings when he is old enough to make that decision for himself.
2013-08-22 12:49:36 PM  
1 votes:
The numbers can't be right as a gay guy I pay a lot of attention to cocks and between the guys I am with and the guys at te gym it may be 1 out of 50 guys under 50 that are not cut not the 30% the article says back in 79
2013-08-22 12:46:01 PM  
1 votes:

Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?


No, it's a cultural preference.
2013-08-22 12:40:01 PM  
1 votes:

Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?


Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.
2013-08-22 12:16:21 PM  
1 votes:
Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?
2013-08-22 12:14:21 PM  
1 votes:

Fo Shiz: Circumcision leads to lower rates of something called meatitis.


Except for the part where circumcision actually leads to higher rates of meatitis.
2013-08-22 08:21:44 AM  
1 votes:
In other news, turtleneck sweater sales are up!
 
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