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(The New York Times)   US circumcision rate has been cut   (well.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 240
    More: Obvious, United States, National Center for Health Statistics, circumcisions, legal burden of proof  
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3485 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 12:31 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 03:45:14 PM

Theaetetus: CJHardin: I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.

Your opinion, however, does not mean the procedures actually are equally unnecessary. In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision. You may (and probably do) disagree that those benefits outweigh the risks or potential detriment, but that's a private medical decision.
However, there are no medical benefits to female genital mutilation.


"Currently, the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn males stating the evidence was not significant enough to prove the operation's benefit. " - http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Female circumcision is barbaric, labiaplasty is more the female "it's just for looks" version, and I guess some guys may think big meat curtains are "gross" too.  From what I remember, they both can lead to more health problems, in that more surface area means more bacteria.  But, like everyone points out, use soap at least once a week and you are good to go...

I'm uncut, and like most guys in the same boat, we could schedule an appointment tomorrow to have part of a junk cut off, and we don't... (but there are lot's of "restoration" sites out there too, if you want to go back)

I did have one girl leave me when she found out I was uncut, I also had two say it feels better, most of them don't care, a penis is a penis... (size and skill seem to matter WAY more).  I think it would be nice to let your kids decide...

Can someone explain the religion part to me though?  Thought god made us in his image and he didn't screw up, that kind of thing...  Was it like a factory recall thing or???
 
2013-08-22 03:47:23 PM
megarian: 

I'm mostly referring to what's going on now with female genital mutilation vs. current reasons for circumcision.

There really aren't any. If circumcision didn't exist now, we wouldn't be out there developing it over a .02% drop in HIV infection or whatever other insignificant factors quoted by those who wish to keep hacking up boys penises in the name of religious ooga booga.
 
2013-08-22 03:47:52 PM

megarian: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: megarian: This thread got all kerfuffled.

[penis double entendre]

lulz u said penis


Well...it's what I got
 
2013-08-22 03:48:25 PM

ZeroCorpse: Target Builder: ZeroCorpse: Call it my western aesthetic values

There's only one western country where circumcision is common.

And I live in it, therefore, I'm glad my cock fits the American ideal of what is aesthetically pleasing to the women I've known, all of whom also lived in America with American aesthetic values (even the immigrants).


Fair enough - just sayin' it's not a "western" asthetic. There's a lot more to the "West" than the US. This is a very US thing.

I'm glad I don't have to clean smegma out of my foreskin, too.

Dude, just rub your cock in the shower once in a while. Or even just shower once in a while. How bad are your personal hygiene habits that this could be an issue for you? Do you bathe once every three months or something? Smell you later.

This text is now purple: Target Builder: There's only one western country where circumcision is common.

Israel is no longer considered "western"?


It's a country in the middle east, with two middle eastern languages as its official languages, populated largely by people of middle eastern ancestry whose ethnic origins are in the middle east and who mostly follow middle eastern religions.
 
2013-08-22 03:48:26 PM
I'm not cut and that's never negatively affected my relationships.

My personality and looks on the other hand....
 
2013-08-22 03:48:26 PM
Too late for Lenny.
 
2013-08-22 03:49:21 PM

Apik0r0s: megarian: 

I'm mostly referring to what's going on now with female genital mutilation vs. current reasons for circumcision.

There really aren't any. If circumcision didn't exist now, we wouldn't be out there developing it over a .02% drop in HIV infection or whatever other insignificant factors quoted by those who wish to keep hacking up boys penises in the name of religious ooga booga.


I was saying that's the reasons people give. I don't necessarily agree with them.
 
2013-08-22 03:49:44 PM

mmxcore: Theaetetus: CJHardin: I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.

Your opinion, however, does not mean the procedures actually are equally unnecessary. In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision. You may (and probably do) disagree that those benefits outweigh the risks or potential detriment, but that's a private medical decision.
However, there are no medical benefits to female genital mutilation.

"Currently, the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn males stating the evidence was not significant enough to prove the operation's benefit. " - http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Female circumcision is barbaric, labiaplasty is more the female "it's just for looks" version, and I guess some guys may think big meat curtains are "gross" too.  From what I remember, they both can lead to more health problems, in that more surface area means more bacteria.  But, like everyone points out, use soap at least once a week and you are good to go...

I'm uncut, and like most guys in the same boat, we could schedule an appointment tomorrow to have part of a junk cut off, and we don't... (but there are lot's of "restoration" sites out there too, if you want to go back)

I did have one girl leave me when she found out I was uncut, I also had two say it feels better, most of them don't care, a penis is a penis... (size and skill seem to matter WAY more).  I think it would be nice to let your kids decide...

Can someone explain the religion part to me though?  Thought god made us in his image and he didn't screw up, that kind of thing...  Was it like a factory recall thing or???


labiaplasty is not only done for looks. Large labia can be quite uncomfortable for women.
 
2013-08-22 03:56:17 PM

poison_amy: ng2810: Ugh. The more reason for me NOT to date younger guys. I've been with both cut and uncut guys, and I can say with 100% certainty that I prefer cut guys. No matter how many showers a guy takes or how clean he keeps his stick, in a few hours the smell emitting from the folds of skin are enough to be off-putting. It's hard to give lots of head when you're trying not to gag from the smell.

/bf is very VERY happy....

I have to assume that smell is coming from YOU then.  You see, I'm a bit of a slut and I've had lots and lots of uncuts, and never once had one emit any kind of rank odor, even after hours of activity.  Oral or otherwise.  Perhaps an antibiotic would help, or if you get the smell during oral, a good dental check up.


You win at Fark!
 
2013-08-22 03:56:40 PM

mmxcore: Theaetetus: CJHardin: I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.

Your opinion, however, does not mean the procedures actually are equally unnecessary. In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision. You may (and probably do) disagree that those benefits outweigh the risks or potential detriment, but that's a private medical decision.
However, there are no medical benefits to female genital mutilation.

"Currently, the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn males stating the evidence was not significant enough to prove the operation's benefit. " - http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision


It's a little more complicated than that:
"The tone of the policy certainly shifts somewhat in favor of circumcision in that it recognizes that there are clear medical benefits that outweigh the risks of the procedure, and that those benefits are sufficient to justify coverage by insurance," said Dr. Douglas Diekema, a member of the academy's circumcision task force.
"What remains unchanged is that the AAP still holds that the health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all newborn males," he said.


Basically, it's a "there are some benefits, but they're not so great that we'll recommend it for everyone, so the decision is yours."

Female circumcision is barbaric, labiaplasty is more the female "it's just for looks" version, and I guess some guys may think big meat curtains are "gross" too.  From what I remember, they both can lead to more health problems, in that more surface area means more bacteria.  But, like everyone points out, use soap at least once a week and you are good to go...

Labiaplasty is definitely a better comparison. And apparently, it's recommended for a specific medical condition that causes chronic yeast infections.
 
2013-08-22 03:57:20 PM

ace in your face: mmxcore: Theaetetus: CJHardin: I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.

Your opinion, however, does not mean the procedures actually are equally unnecessary. In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision. You may (and probably do) disagree that those benefits outweigh the risks or potential detriment, but that's a private medical decision.
However, there are no medical benefits to female genital mutilation.

"Currently, the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn males stating the evidence was not significant enough to prove the operation's benefit. " - http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Female circumcision is barbaric, labiaplasty is more the female "it's just for looks" version, and I guess some guys may think big meat curtains are "gross" too.  From what I remember, they both can lead to more health problems, in that more surface area means more bacteria.  But, like everyone points out, use soap at least once a week and you are good to go...

I'm uncut, and like most guys in the same boat, we could schedule an appointment tomorrow to have part of a junk cut off, and we don't... (but there are lot's of "restoration" sites out there too, if you want to go back)

I did have one girl leave me when she found out I was uncut, I also had two say it feels better, most of them don't care, a penis is a penis... (size and skill seem to matter WAY more).  I think it would be nice to let your kids decide...

Can someone explain the religion part to me though?  Thought god made us in his image and he didn't screw up, that kind of thing...  Was it like a factory recall thing or???

labiaplasty is not only done for looks. Large labia can be quite uncomfortable for women.


Useful, though. How do you think the Flying Nun was able to steer?
 
2013-08-22 03:57:27 PM
Also for larger guys the lack of foreskin causes many women discomfort sometimes due to the increased friction.  I'd think most women would prefer it that way if given the option.  I know my girlfriend would probably agree.

/not bragging
//totally bragging
 
2013-08-22 03:59:11 PM
labiaplasty is not only done for looks. Large labia can be quite uncomfortable for women.

Yeah, interesting wiki article... and from the pics, I can see where that might be... cumbersome...

When I was born, the black nurse told my mom she was "sending him into the arms of the devil" if I didn't get cut...  Sucks my parents were young and naïve or they could have said something, sucks if any medical person tries to make any kind of religious/scientific statement for their beliefs... Really glad my parents gave me the choice, so much so it's one of the most awkward talks I ever had... (seriously, go thank your mom and dad for not cutting off your junk... it's just uncomfortable...)
 
2013-08-22 03:59:25 PM
I mean they would prefer uncut!  Jeez.
 
2013-08-22 03:59:58 PM

ace in your face: mmxcore: Theaetetus: CJHardin: I guess my point is that both procedures are in my opinion equally unnecessary and harmful and I disagree with their continuance in modern medicine.

Your opinion, however, does not mean the procedures actually are equally unnecessary. In particular, there are some medical benefits to male circumcision. You may (and probably do) disagree that those benefits outweigh the risks or potential detriment, but that's a private medical decision.
However, there are no medical benefits to female genital mutilation.

"Currently, the American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn males stating the evidence was not significant enough to prove the operation's benefit. " - http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Female circumcision is barbaric, labiaplasty is more the female "it's just for looks" version, and I guess some guys may think big meat curtains are "gross" too.  From what I remember, they both can lead to more health problems, in that more surface area means more bacteria.  But, like everyone points out, use soap at least once a week and you are good to go...

I'm uncut, and like most guys in the same boat, we could schedule an appointment tomorrow to have part of a junk cut off, and we don't... (but there are lot's of "restoration" sites out there too, if you want to go back)

I did have one girl leave me when she found out I was uncut, I also had two say it feels better, most of them don't care, a penis is a penis... (size and skill seem to matter WAY more).  I think it would be nice to let your kids decide...

Can someone explain the religion part to me though?  Thought god made us in his image and he didn't screw up, that kind of thing...  Was it like a factory recall thing or???

labiaplasty is not only done for looks. Large labia can be quite uncomfortable for women.


cds.arbys.com
 
2013-08-22 04:05:09 PM

dustygrimp: For those of you worried about the children... It should match dad.  The only damage to be done to the kid is finding out he doesn't match dad.


Err, no.  Go to Google.  Turn off safe search.

Look for "botched circumcision".

Then come back here and try again.

/lawyer buddy of mine did insurance defense work...the ONLY cases they'd settle out of court were botched circs.
 
2013-08-22 04:12:04 PM

PunGent: /lawyer buddy of mine did insurance defense work...the ONLY cases they'd settle out of court were botched circs.


On the plus side, the briefs would be light.
 
2013-08-22 04:15:30 PM
So much for hoping you'd shut the fark up with your stupid bullshiat.

"It's a little more complicated than that."


No shiat, it is. Since the 1980s, private hospitals have been involved in the business of supplying discarded foreskins to private bio-research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies who require them as raw research material.

"I recently saw both your articles regarding the sale of infant foreskins to pharmaceutical companies. Africa must be informed that western "humanitarian aid" organisations may be interested in a little more than just "public health." http://www.timeslive.co.za/ilive/2011/08/10/interest-in-cir cumcision -m ore-than-foreskin-deep

Also, cosmetics:

And at least one company is searching for the fountain of youth in baby foreskins-yes, we're talking about that flap of skin sliced away during male circumcision


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-cut-above-the-res t- wrin

"Life Technologies produces research-use only products using neonatal foreskins discarded from circumcisions with full, informed consent."


http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/article-7356-the-$140-million-fore s kin.html

As always, follow the money. They money doing it, they make money selling it; money, money, money.
 
2013-08-22 04:17:56 PM
Voids the warranty when you remove factory installed parts.

FTFA:  There are regional variations as well. In 2010, about 71 percent of babies in the Midwest were circumcised, 66.3 percent in the Northeast, 58.4 percent in the South, and 40.2 percent in the West.

Yep.  Having an intact child is the norm around here.
 
2013-08-22 04:20:03 PM

penthesilea: Voids the warranty when you remove factory installed parts.

FTFA:  There are regional variations as well. In 2010, about 71 percent of babies in the Midwest were circumcised, 66.3 percent in the Northeast, 58.4 percent in the South, and 40.2 percent in the West.

Yep.  Having an intact child is the norm around here.


Works for me. Have had more than a few satisfied ladies tell me I was their first un-cut.
 
2013-08-22 04:20:48 PM

FarkinHostile: So much for hoping you'd shut the fark up with your stupid bullshiat.


So much for hoping that you'd realize that lashing out at people's spouses because you disagree with them in a Fark thread is the mark of an asshole.

Also, shouldn't you have run from this thread with your tail between your legs, since you've been called out on the whole Europe/China/America thing, just like last time?
 
2013-08-22 04:23:41 PM
Can't speak for everyone, but personally I wish I had not been circumcised. Maybe I would then wish I had, but I was never asked if I wanted a part of my penis which is full of nerves to be cut off. Cut or natural, if your dick is gross and cheesy it's your own damn fault. I always thoroughly clean my tool in my daily shower.
 
2013-08-22 04:38:06 PM

Theaetetus: Also, shouldn't you have run from this thread with your tail between your legs, since you've been called out on the whole Europe/China/America thing, just like last time?


Again, you do know everyone can go to that thread, read your silly links and find out who is right. But considering your "debate" style, you will just keep repeating the lie. After all, someone might believe you. But you know what? I really despise liars, so I'll just save everyone some time. From your links:


"Ecological evidence came from studies in East Africa in the 1960s which showed that penile cancer was more common than expected in traditionally non-circumcising ethnic groups than among traditionally circumcising ethnic groups..."


Expansion of circumcision services in sub-Saharan Africa... "

I'm known for being a blunt, honest asshole. You're known for being a intellectually dishonest lying misandrist. You just like to play lawyer here, likely because you suck at it IRL.

But DO twist data, move the goalposts, mislead and cherry pick. You know, your usual deceitful, dishonest technique. You just expose yourself to more and more people who will then no longer take you seriously.
 
2013-08-22 04:41:55 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Mr. Eugenides: Me, I'm pro choice and I'm fine with whatever the parents decide.

While the one who actually suffers has no say in the matter.


Are you a rabid anti-abortionist too?
 
2013-08-22 04:42:28 PM
CIRC threads always provide plenty of entertainment


/cut
//glad I was in my school daze
///wish I wasn't now
 
2013-08-22 04:46:52 PM

FarkinHostile: Theaetetus: Also, shouldn't you have run from this thread with your tail between your legs, since you've been called out on the whole Europe/China/America thing, just like last time?

Again, you do know everyone can go to that thread, read your silly links and find out who is right. But considering your "debate" style, you will just keep repeating the lie. After all, someone might believe you. But you know what? I really despise liars, so I'll just save everyone some time. From your links:

"Ecological evidence came from studies in East Africa in the 1960s which showed that penile cancer was more common than expected in traditionally non-circumcising ethnic groups than among traditionally circumcising ethnic groups..."

Expansion of circumcision services in sub-Saharan Africa... "

I'm known for being a blunt, honest asshole.


You're apparently also known for being illiterate. Repeat after me, please, as slow as you need to to actually understand the words:
The eight papers evaluating the effect of circumcision on penile cancer included one cross-sectional study and seven case-control studies (Table 1). Study populations were from Europe (n = 4), the United States (n = 3), and China (n = 1).


Nope, it's useless. You'll never understand that Europe, the United States, and China are not in sub-Saharan Africa.

But for everyone else, here's the explanation: this 2001 study talks about some older studies from the 1960s in East Africa for background, and then does its own analysis on new evidence from studies in the above-identified regions. FarkinHostile did a control-F for "Africa", found it in the background, and his brain shut off. He literally stopped at page one of the study, and never read further.

But try to correct him, and he'll start in with personal attacks about your family like a coward.
 
2013-08-22 04:50:32 PM

megarian: You do know that female genital mutilation is mostly done so a female can't experience pleasure from sex, right? It's not about aesthetics or cleanliness. It's about girls that likes sex = whore.


And the push for circumcision as a routine non-religious thing began in the US with John Harvey Kellogg to discourage masturbation. Should read his book from 1877. He had some pretty horrible ideas about how awful it would be to leave a guy intact and having him fap.

CJHardin: I am aware that female genital mutilation is done for that purpose. I would go so far as to say that the origins of male circumcision was brought about for some of the same reasons but it became more commonplace as many religions advocate them and they inevitably became the norm and was considered aesthetically pleasing.


That's nothing more than you saying 'Our tradition of genital mutilation is better than their tradition of genital mutilation'.

megarian: Yes, I understand that. But RIGHT NOW it's more about looks and assumed cleanliness. I don't necessarily agree with those ideas.


Doesn't change the fact that it absolutely affects sexual pleasure because of the removal of thousands of nerve endings and the resulting drying and toughening of the skin of the glans.

CJHardin: Yeah, being able to last a long time during sex as a teen and mid 20's guy made me feel like a rock star. These days I'd welcome the additional stimulation. I'm not saying that lasting a while is a bad thing necessarily but there are times when I'd like to be a bit more brief in the act.


They don't orgasm any more quickly, in my experience, just more intensely.

Raspil: bless their hearts, then. they don't know what they're missing and that's really sad. or maybe they do and this is their way of feeling something something


People will go to some pretty serious lengths to sustain their belief that they were not unnecessarily mutilated.

poison_amy: I have to assume that smell is coming from YOU then. You see, I'm a bit of a slut and I've had lots and lots of uncuts, and never once had one emit any kind of rank odor, even after hours of activity. Oral or otherwise. Perhaps an antibiotic would help, or if you get the smell during oral, a good dental check up.


Same. Here.

CJHardin: Also for larger guys the lack of foreskin causes many women discomfort sometimes due to the increased friction. I'd think most women would prefer it that way if given the option. I know my girlfriend would probably agree.


To be incredibly detailed about it, the ridge around the glans actually acts like a scoop and pulls the natural vaginal lubrication out. It does a horrible job of putting it back in. It also tends to scrape off the pelvic bone on the out stroke, and when that's happening over and over again, it starts to get uncomfortable.

I have never had that problem with a guy who was uncut.

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Works for me. Have had more than a few satisfied ladies tell me I was their first un-cut.


I 100% prefer the uncut ones. It is always a disappointment when I find out that a guy is cut. They just don't feel as good and I can't look at a cut one without seeing the scars. It is mutilation. They just look .. wrong.
 
2013-08-22 04:54:24 PM
Uncut, don't see the big deal in doing what amounts to unnecessary surgery maybe 99 percent of the time. If people are shallow enough to be filled with horror at an uncut dick, that's their problem. Lets be honest though, we mainly do it for cosmetics these days because the evidence that its hygienic just isn't that strong.
 
2013-08-22 04:54:26 PM
This is a good thread to highlight the super crazy people that use Fark.

Sometimes I forget about threads like this and think you guys are fairly normal, but after a good circumcision thread I suddenly don't want to ever go to a Fark party.
 
2013-08-22 04:54:47 PM

ddam: Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?

Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.


I was in the same boat as you, but after months of arguing during the pregnancy my wife insisted the she and every woman she talked to thought that uncircumcised penises were gross and that nobody want to give a blowjob to them because they are creepy.  Then she had every woman she knows tell me the same.  So I caved.  They were all surprised that I didn't want to get him circumcised because I'm circumcised and apparently 99% of people just decide to go with whatever the father had.  In the end, it was just a little scab around his penis for a couple weeks that we had to keep clean, and then it was all good and now he has a lower risk of all sorts of problems.  To me - it's not that big a difference either way, that's why I was kind of like "why bother".
 
2013-08-22 04:56:17 PM
Since I'm out in a few, I'll just throw a blatant WIE offer to all the women here.
 
2013-08-22 04:57:08 PM

pedobearapproved: This is a good thread to highlight the super crazy people that use Fark.

Sometimes I forget about threads like this and think you guys are fairly normal, but after a good circumcision thread I suddenly don't want to ever go to a Fark party.


yeah, but they're fun to peak in at
 
2013-08-22 04:57:10 PM

Theaetetus: The eight papers evaluating the effect of circumcision on penile cancer included one cross-sectional study and seven case-control studies (Table 1). Study populations were from Europe (n = 4), the United States (n = 3), and China (n = 1).


Penile cancer is ... already extremely rare, but if you want to go there, let me give you a hypothetical.

It is possible now to use genetic testing to determine whether or not a girl carries the BRCA gene mutations that make it extremely likely (upwards of 80% odds) that she will one day get breast cancer. The odds are so high that adult women (i.e. Angeline Jolie) have chosen to have prophylactic mastectomies to attempt to prevent the disease.

This means that it is an absolute fact that we could save lives, lots of them, if we tested infant girls for the genetic mutations and in infancy removed their breast buds. This would prevent thousands of more cases of fatal cancer, and cancer in general, than circumcision and we could be certain we were only doing it to those who have a very high statistical likelihood of cancer.

Would you support genetic testing for infant girls and surgical removal of the breast buds if they carry the BRCA mutations?
 
2013-08-22 04:57:58 PM

spiderpaz: ddam: Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?

Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.

I was in the same boat as you, but after months of arguing during the pregnancy my wife insisted the she and every woman she talked to thought that uncircumcised penises were gross and that nobody want to give a blowjob to them because they are creepy.  Then she had every woman she knows tell me the same.  So I caved.  They were all surprised that I didn't want to get him circumcised because I'm circumcised and apparently 99% of people just decide to go with whatever the father had.  In the end, it was just a little scab around his penis for a couple weeks that we had to keep clean, and then it was all good and now he has a lower risk of all sorts of problems.  To me - it's not that big a difference either way, that's why I was kind of like "why bother".


Except they cut off the very sensitive part of your son's penis without anesthetic.  He endured extreme pain and it only lowered the risk of urinary tract infection if his penis is not kept clean.
 
2013-08-22 04:58:33 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Since I'm out in a few, I'll just throw a blatant WIE offer to all the women here.


EIP.
 
2013-08-22 04:58:58 PM

heili skrimsli: Penile cancer is ... already extremely rare, but if you want to go there, let me give you a hypothetical.


Then, of course, there is this:

AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY

February 16, 1996
Dr. Peter Rappo
Committee on Practice & Ambulatory Medicine American
Academy of Pediatrics141 Northwest Point Boulevard
P. O. Box 927Elk Grove Village, IL 60009-0927


Dear Dr. Rappo:

As representatives of the American Cancer Society, we would like to discourage the American Academy of Pediatrics from promoting routine circumcision as preventative measure for penile or cervical cancer.

The American Cancer Society does not consider routine circumcision to be a valid or effective measure to prevent such cancers. Research suggesting a pattern in the circumcision status of partners of women with cervical cancer is methodologically flawed, outdated and has not been taken seriously in the medical community for decades.

Likewise, research claiming a relationship between circumcision and penile cancer is inconclusive. Penile cancer is an extremely rare condition, effecting one in 200,000 men in the United States. Penile cancer rates in countries which do not practice circumcision are lower than those found in the United States. Fatalities caused by circumcision accidents may approximate the mortality rate from penile cancer. Portraying routine circumcision as an effective means of prevention distracts the public from the task of avoiding the behaviors proven to contribute to penile and cervical cancer: especially cigarette smoking and unprotected sexual relations with multiple partners. Perpetuating the mistaken belief that circumcision prevents cancer is inappropriate.

Sincerely,

Hugh Shingleton, M.D. National Vice President
Clark W. Heath, Jr., M.D.Vice President Detection & Treatment Epidemiology & Surveillance Research
 
2013-08-22 04:59:52 PM
I'm getting the feeling that many of the men in this thread have been dating these women.  Given that the title of the video is "The Penis Song," I'm going to let you decide if that link is NSFW or not.

I'm sure that every woman has a preference and I'm sure they're all over the map.  I'm also sure that when naked every woman tells every man complimentary things because the result of saying "Oh, that's odd/small/ugly" is that it tends to get smaller.
 
2013-08-22 05:01:23 PM

heili skrimsli: I 100% prefer the uncut ones. It is always a disappointment when I find out that a guy is cut. They just don't feel as good and I can't look at a cut one without seeing the scars. It is mutilation. They just look .. wrong.


In other words, it's all in your head.
 
2013-08-22 05:02:40 PM

heili skrimsli: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Since I'm out in a few, I'll just throw a blatant WIE offer to all the women here.

EIP.


take a look
 
2013-08-22 05:02:42 PM

heili skrimsli: Theaetetus: The eight papers evaluating the effect of circumcision on penile cancer included one cross-sectional study and seven case-control studies (Table 1). Study populations were from Europe (n = 4), the United States (n = 3), and China (n = 1).

Penile cancer is ... already extremely rare, but if you want to go there, let me give you a hypothetical.

It is possible now to use genetic testing to determine whether or not a girl carries the BRCA gene mutations that make it extremely likely (upwards of 80% odds) that she will one day get breast cancer. The odds are so high that adult women (i.e. Angeline Jolie) have chosen to have prophylactic mastectomies to attempt to prevent the disease.

This means that it is an absolute fact that we could save lives, lots of them, if we tested infant girls for the genetic mutations and in infancy removed their breast buds. This would prevent thousands of more cases of fatal cancer, and cancer in general, than circumcision and we could be certain we were only doing it to those who have a very high statistical likelihood of cancer.

Would you support genetic testing for infant girls and surgical removal of the breast buds if they carry the BRCA mutations?


I'm not sure breasts work that way, since most of their growth is at puberty. But, that aside or reworded as a general question, if we could detect a harmful mutation that could be obviated through surgical removal to prevent "thousands of cases" of fatal cancer, then I believe a decision to remove or not should be up to the physician and patient, or the patient's parents or guardians. It should not be banned outright.

Note that this is the exact same thing I said earlier with regard to circumcision.
 
2013-08-22 05:03:10 PM

thegrievingmole: And not needing lube for masturbation.


How often are you whacking it that you need lube?  And how tight are you gripping?  Maybe you should calm down before you break the thing.
 
2013-08-22 05:04:07 PM

CJHardin: Except they cut off the very sensitive part of your son's penis without anesthetic. He endured extreme pain and it only lowered the risk of urinary tract infection if his penis is not kept clean.


That whole push of circumcision preventing UTIs came from one Dr. Thomas Wiswell in 1982. Already an ardent supporter of circumcision, he was looking for something to justify his stance when he published his UTI study. It reduces the rate of incidence from 0.24% to 0.02%. Seems like a huge reduction because it's 'an order of magnitude', but you're already talking about factions of a percent so in absolute numbers, it's really a very, very tiny benefit.
 

It takes over 444 circumcisions to prevent a single UTI from occurring.
 
2013-08-22 05:04:25 PM
Don't be misled by FarkinHostile's decades old ACA letter. It's about as material as his claim that a study on Europe, America, and China is on "sub-Saharan Africa", particularly considering that's not the ACA's position today.
 
2013-08-22 05:07:29 PM

heili skrimsli: Seems like a huge reduction because it's 'an order of magnitude', but you're already talking about factions of a percent so in absolute numbers, it's really a very, very tiny benefit.



It's exactly the same way with EVERY so called circ benefit. Another example of how numbers can be made to be misleading when there is an agenda.
 
2013-08-22 05:07:50 PM

CJHardin: spiderpaz: ddam: Fo Shiz: Apparently Hispanics have lower rates of circumcision.  Most western states' Medicaid programs (including CA, OR and WA) do not cover circumcision as a routine procedure.  So can we infer that high birth rates among Hispanics along with some associated lack of health insurance leads to a lower rate of circumcision?

Neither did my private insurance so my son who's about to be 2 soon is uncut. No way I'd pay $400 for that procedure, especially since it's not necessary.

I was in the same boat as you, but after months of arguing during the pregnancy my wife insisted the she and every woman she talked to thought that uncircumcised penises were gross and that nobody want to give a blowjob to them because they are creepy.  Then she had every woman she knows tell me the same.  So I caved.  They were all surprised that I didn't want to get him circumcised because I'm circumcised and apparently 99% of people just decide to go with whatever the father had.  In the end, it was just a little scab around his penis for a couple weeks that we had to keep clean, and then it was all good and now he has a lower risk of all sorts of problems.  To me - it's not that big a difference either way, that's why I was kind of like "why bother".

Except they cut off the very sensitive part of your son's penis without anesthetic.  He endured extreme pain and it only lowered the risk of urinary tract infection if his penis is not kept clean.


He cried for 10 minutes and then went to sleep and basically forgot about it when he woke up and wanted milk ... but whatever you win.  The doctors and nurses also kind of treated me like an idiot when I said I don't see why I should need to get him circumcised.  It's kind of hard when that many medical professionals are looking at you like "it's 10 minutes of pain that could save him numerous painful infections and possibly lower his chances of some STD's" (the MD's didn't mention the no blowjob getting thing but my wife did).  We're going to have 1 more, so I'll just hope for a girl to avoid the whole dilemma this time.
 
2013-08-22 05:08:23 PM

heili skrimsli: CJHardin: Except they cut off the very sensitive part of your son's penis without anesthetic. He endured extreme pain and it only lowered the risk of urinary tract infection if his penis is not kept clean.

That whole push of circumcision preventing UTIs came from one Dr. Thomas Wiswell in 1982. Already an ardent supporter of circumcision, he was looking for something to justify his stance when he published his UTI study. It reduces the rate of incidence from 0.24% to 0.02%. Seems like a huge reduction because it's 'an order of magnitude', but you're already talking about factions of a percent so in absolute numbers, it's really a very, very tiny benefit.
 

It takes over 444 circumcisions to prevent a single UTI from occurring.


I knew the risk of UTI were small but damn, that's minuscule.
 
2013-08-22 05:10:32 PM

FarkinHostile: heili skrimsli: Seems like a huge reduction because it's 'an order of magnitude', but you're already talking about factions of a percent so in absolute numbers, it's really a very, very tiny benefit.

It's exactly the same way with EVERY so called circ benefit. Another example of how numbers can be made to be misleading when there is an agenda.


Considering you can't read past the first page of a study, I'd take that statement with a grain of salt.
 
2013-08-22 05:11:12 PM

pedobearapproved: In other words, it's all in your head.


It's all in my vagina, actually.

Theaetetus: I'm not sure breasts work that way, since most of their growth is at puberty. But, that aside or reworded as a general question, if we could detect a harmful mutation that could be obviated through surgical removal to prevent "thousands of cases" of fatal cancer, then I believe a decision to remove or not should be up to the physician and patient, or the patient's parents or guardians. It should not be banned outright.

Note that this is the exact same thing I said earlier with regard to circumcision.


Well then, surely you agree that we have much stronger medical justification for prophylactic mastectomy on children than circumcision.

As for breasts working that way, yes it is possible to do. It's basically mastectomy of the undeveloped breast, which means they will never develop.PDF

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: take a look


I did, and appreciate the email very much!
 
2013-08-22 05:13:27 PM
 img.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-22 05:13:36 PM
I know this will be unpopular, but I prefer cut.  I think it's just because it's what I'm used to.  Basically I only fooled around with or had sex with guys who were cut, then I hooked up with an uncut guy and was in horror when I stuck my hands down his pants.  I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.  He could tell something was wrong because I stopped, and I mentioned that it felt weird.  I know you guys are all thinking that I'm a biatch, but honestly 19 year old me had never even thought about circumcision before so I didn't realize that was what was going on, I was worried he had some sort of disease.  Anyway, he told me he was uncut which put me at ease, but honestly I couldn't get past the way it felt.  It just weirded me out for whatever reason.  I didn't end up having sex with him or anything and I'm so glad I didn't because a couple weeks later I found out he had gonorrhea.

That was my one and only experience with it, so for me, cut is more comfortable since it's what I'm familiar with.  Most women I've talked about this with all say they also prefer cut, but I'm sure it's just what we're used to.  Having said that, if my husband had been uncut, I'd still love him and it wouldn't matter.  I might be less thrilled with going down on him though based on (I know conflicting) information regarding the hygiene issue with uncut.  I'm kind of a germaphobe

So really it's just a personal preference thing and I'm sure it's very similar to how the current generation of young men are probably grossed out by my naturally large breasts that sag a bit because all they're used to are big perky fake tits they see on the internet.  I don't take offense to it, it's just the way it is.
 
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