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(CNN)   France has decided that if Syria used chemical weapons, that the U.S. should do something about it   (cnn.com) divider line 61
    More: Obvious, Israel Radio, Ahmet Davutoglu, U.S., 2011-2012 Syrian uprising, chemical weapons, United Nations Security Council, international humanitarian law, information minister  
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4980 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 8:05 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-22 08:08:17 AM
8 votes:
All,

No thank you.  We've had enough of foreign entanglements for a while.  This one is all you.  Looking at you UN.

Sincerely,

The American People
2013-08-22 08:37:23 AM
4 votes:
Standard rule is that the "international community" loves American power when it is used to protect their interests and concerns (ie escorting oil tanker that bring them their oil through the Persian Gulf -less than 5% of US oil imports come by that route, The Balkans, Somalia, Desert Storm) and it saves them from having to do any of the heavy lifting (The US flew 80% of the combat missions over Kosovo). But when the US acts in its own interests they tend to get their collective panties in a wad and snivel about unilateralism.

My rule is when you bring a proportionate share of resources/risks to the table (relative to population, economy etc) you get and equal say in how we do things until then STFU.

Lead , follow or get the hell out of the way.

/OF course what our interests are is always up for debate.
2013-08-22 08:10:49 AM
4 votes:
This is going to sound really sad, but I am ready to just walk away from the Middle East.

How about we just stop doing business there...
Stop flying planes there ...
stop issuing visas to anyone there ...
deny all immigration from there ...
Stop trading there ...
Cut off the Internet top-level routing there ...
Screw 'em. I am sick of caring about pretty much anything or anyone between Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan.
2013-08-22 09:05:31 AM
3 votes:
Syria is in Asia.
Let's not go there.
2013-08-22 08:36:46 AM
3 votes:
"Nothing practical, significant, has been done in the last two years in order to stop the continuing massacre of civilians carried out by the Assad regime," he said. "I think that the investigation of the United Nations is a joke."
                                                               -
Yuval Steinitz, Israeli Minister of Strategic Affairs
i1199.photobucket.com
2013-08-22 08:33:31 AM
3 votes:
We have done something! barry has given several very strong "red line" speeches. If Syria wants to keep using these weapons they can expect a very harsh scolding via teleprompter probably from a golf course.
2013-08-22 08:32:50 AM
3 votes:

The Muthaship: Just walk back the red line.  How important is our word anyway?


For this administration? Since they'll call anyone who refuses to believe their promises a "racist," not very important at all. Like the Palestinians, the Obama Administration can make literally any promise they want and break them in the very same sentence, and honestly feel justified in doing so because keeping promises is something only their enemies in the evil white patriarchy would do, or expect anyone else to do, and they don't want to be the same as the people they hate.

/better make sure we never have a white male president again, because if we do, all the impossible promises Obama made will be collected on
2013-08-22 08:27:23 AM
3 votes:

SlothB77: Obama is looking really weak right now with Egypt and Syria.  You don't even hear him condemning them.  The Middle East is a mess right now and he isn't doing a damn thing.  He/ we are allowing evil forces to win.  Evil is killing innocents in Egypt.  Evil is gassing innocents in Syria.  We are allowing evil to spread, to win.  If you allow evil there, don't be surprised when it shows up on your block too.


Yup. He's so weak by not spending billions of dollars and thousands of American lives on a war that solve nothing and put people in power that we can't control.
2013-08-22 08:24:26 AM
3 votes:

Outrageous Muff: You have two choices:

Not do anything

Create a new Iraq/Afghanistan


Its going to be an iraq/ afghanistan whether we go in there or not.

France can go fark themselves.  Now they want us to intervene with a middle eastern country with chemical weapons?  fark off.

Obama is looking really weak right now with Egypt and Syria.  You don't even hear him condemning them.  The Middle East is a mess right now and he isn't doing a damn thing.  He/ we are allowing evil forces to win.  Evil is killing innocents in Egypt.  Evil is gassing innocents in Syria.  We are allowing evil to spread, to win.  If you allow evil there, don't be surprised when it shows up on your block too.
2013-08-22 01:15:14 PM
2 votes:

HMS_Blinkin: So what would you do? Condemn their actions verbally and do nothing? Wouldn't that look weak? Would you pick a side in Egypt or Syria? You say "evil" is gassing innocents in Syria, so would you take the side of Al-Qaeda? You say "evil" is killing innocents in Egypt, so would you support the Muslim Brotherhood there? If Obama picked the sides you're calling "innocent," you'd be on here ranting about how he's using American military might to support Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood. If he did the opposite, we'd all hear about how Assad and Egypt's military gov't aren't legitimate.


You don't make speeches about "red lines" when you aren't planning to follow through. I'm not upset that he hasn't followed through though. I'm upset that he opened up his pie-hole about it in the first place.
2013-08-22 12:23:15 PM
2 votes:
tirob:  Yeah, but even so, it's kind of sad that the Syrian government has found it necessary to kill tens of thousands of deluded marionettes of US imperialism of all ages, sexes, and conditions while all this has been going on, and to create refugees of a million more of them, don't you think?

I'm sure that Assad's military has some blood on its hands, civil wars tend to get messy.  But the numbers and atrocities have been grossly misrepresented to further US interests.  The CIA inflamed tensions and armed the opposition from the beginning, most of the anti-Assad fighters aren't even Syrians.  Syria has everything to lose by gassing its own citizens, especially when UN weapons inspectors just landed in town.

What I'm asking is for US citizens to do a little research of their own before accepting the US gov't at its word and signing off on America Fark Yeah yet again.  The Bush and Obama administrations have been shown time and again to be less than truthful, even willfully deceptive.  Kind of similar to Iraq.

I only care because the US march across the Middle East is nearing its end.  NATO (US) military intervention in Syria will unleash holy hell as many players that have been sitting on the sidelines enter the game.  And it's gonna get uglier than anything seen before.

US motivation in the ME has never been about rounding up the bad guys.  It's oil.  And gas.  And control of oil and gas.
2013-08-22 11:44:40 AM
2 votes:
It's always fun when people who generally make a living complaining about US interference in the world always look in our direction when they want something interfered with. Must be nice to be able to shout down to us Americans to do their dirty work from way up there in the clouds of the moral high ground.
2013-08-22 10:57:29 AM
2 votes:

The Irresponsible Captain: Let someone else take care of it this time.

I've had enough endless war today this century.


Yes, going on two decades into the 21st century and we have been involved in some kind of armed conflict almost the entire time.

Enough.
2013-08-22 10:22:17 AM
2 votes:

I_C_Weener: Park a carrier group off the coast.  Mail a letter with a proposed cost to the UN.  Offer to take care of the problem if they will just put a $1 billion retainer on a card.  Make sure that the Sec. of the UN signs a personal guarantee.  Then establish a no-fly zone where our pilots can practice their anti-radar attacks and stuff.


Are you crazy?!  This is...actually...a reasonable idea.  Huh.

We should go mercenary.  We'll come in and do the heavy lifting as a subcontractor.  We bill them for the full cost plus profit and leave when done.  We're so fond of outsourcing to countries that have "expertise we don't have", let's provide outsourcing for what we do better than anyone in the history of the world.
2013-08-22 10:16:41 AM
2 votes:
The US will be more than happy to intervene in the rebellion they created and have been funding since the beginning.  And US citizens will fall for the same tired "cleanin' up the world's evil" propaganda that they trot out time after time.
2013-08-22 09:26:44 AM
2 votes:

SlothB77: Obama is looking really weak right now with Egypt and Syria.  You don't even hear him condemning them.  The Middle East is a mess right now and he isn't doing a damn thing.  He/ we are allowing evil forces to win.  Evil is killing innocents in Egypt.  Evil is gassing innocents in Syria.  We are allowing evil to spread, to win.  If you allow evil there, don't be surprised when it shows up on your block too.


So what would you do?  Condemn their actions verbally and do nothing?  Wouldn't that look weak?  Would you pick a side in Egypt or Syria?  You say "evil" is gassing innocents in Syria, so would you take the side of Al-Qaeda?  You say "evil" is killing innocents in Egypt, so would you support the Muslim Brotherhood there?  If Obama picked the sides you're calling "innocent," you'd be on here ranting about how he's using American military might to support Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.  If he did the opposite, we'd all hear about how Assad and Egypt's military gov't aren't legitimate.

SlothB77: Let them kill each other until they are all gone?


Oh, so you'd ALSO do nothing---the exact same thing Obama is doing right now.  Didn't you just describe this exact strategy as "allowing evil to win?"  Or are you just oversimplifying an incredibly complex foreign policy situation (that has no good outcomes and which US intervention really can't do anything but exacerbate) and criticizing any course of action because you don't like the president's party affiliation?

Do nothing: supportin' evil
Support Assad/Egypt's militar government: supportin' evil
Support rebels/Muslim Brotherhood: you better believe that's supportin' evil
2013-08-22 09:08:37 AM
2 votes:

vudukungfu: Syria is in Asia.
Let's not go there.


blogs.oc.edu
2013-08-22 09:02:40 AM
2 votes:
I think we just found those WMD that went missing from Iraq.
2013-08-22 08:27:22 AM
2 votes:

pag1107: This is still a no-win for the US, we either prop up a sociopathic dictator who's family has been nothing but a problem for three generations or we install alQaeda as the legitimate government of Syria.


France and England have everything to do with that. Their game of empire in the Middle East has been a root cause of a lot of the problems in the Middle East this last century.

T E Lawrence called it.
2013-08-22 08:22:29 AM
2 votes:
It really makes no sense that Assad used chemical weapons again with UN inspectors in the country and while winning the war
2013-08-22 08:22:17 AM
2 votes:
This is still a no-win for the US, we either prop up a sociopathic dictator who's family has been nothing but a problem for three generations or we install alQaeda as the legitimate government of Syria.
2013-08-22 08:16:06 AM
2 votes:

gorgon38: Russia and China will block anything to do with Syria, they can do as they please.


This.  As such, I nominate Russia to do something about Syria, or not.  But having seen the latest photos and video, Christ you can't un-see children who are the victims of chemical warfare.  I wish this one had an easy answer, because it's about as jacked as a situation can be.
2013-08-22 08:08:20 AM
2 votes:
The Koch brothers have decided that if Obama pretends Syria used chemical weapons, your taxes should do something about it.
2013-08-23 12:57:06 PM
1 votes:

Amos Quito: Oh, by all means, PLEASE DO click on Tappy's links - and see where they go - usually they link to MORE of Tappy's own posts with MORE links that go to still MORE of Tappy's own posts  (etc) and if you ever DO manage to get to the center of Tappy's Russian Doll, you'll find that his accusations were baseless lies.


Keep lying to yourself, anti-semite shiatstain. Anyone who knows how to click on a link can see that my posts lead to your own posts spewing your anti-semitic conspiracy bullshiat.
2013-08-23 06:59:55 AM
1 votes:

TappingTheVein: makes it more hilarious when he is caught lying about it.


Did you just link to your own attempted zinger on a fellow Farker?

More like TappingTheVain.
2013-08-23 06:54:49 AM
1 votes:
tirob, just a little background information about Fark's resident anti-semite Amos Quito:

he's a rabid anti-semite sack of shiat who blames "the jews/zionists/Israel" on things ranging from conspiracies about JFK's murder, the Holocaust, the revolution in Egypt, you name it.

Of course he does it in his "*wink* *wink* i'm only asking questions here but.. you saif it! not I!" technique like a retarded child which makes it more hilarious when he is caught lying about it.

He's "hinting" here Amos Quito(tm) style that Israel is behind the WMD attacks in Syria.. ? ahha..hahahaha!
2013-08-22 11:55:47 PM
1 votes:

tirob: Amos Quito: 1. Nobody benefits from a gas attack.

Least of all AssadCo.

Assad may not necessarily see it that way.  After all, it's a few hundred of his enemies dead, and a lesson to the rest of them.

Amos Quito: while AssadCo's enemies may not benefit directly from staging such an attack, they would most certainly benefit if the the OUTRAGED World Police (US) were to roll up its sleeves and kick Assad's ass, wouldn't they?

Yes.  They have said as much openly.

http://www.lapresse.ca/international/dossiers/crise-dans-le-monde-ar ab e/syrie/201308/22/01-4682247-washington-sous-pression-pour-intervenir- en-syrie.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cy berpresse_lire_aussi_4682298_article_POS4

The caption of the picture describes the young man holding the sign as a Syrian living in Beirut.



Then why deny the possibility?


tirob: I now see that I overlooked a source (the Syrian government media) that claimed that no chemical attack occurred. See my previous post. Otherwise, you are correct that practically everyone else we're hearing from now says that a chemical attack occurred, and I agree that fingers (mine not excepted) are starting to point at Assad.


1. I see no link
2. With no access to the area, how would Assad know whether and actual attack occurred - rather than just propaganda? Is he psychic?
3. You're STARTING to point the finger at Assad? LOL!


tirob: Amos Quito: What seems painfully obvious (to me) is that the party that would have the most to lose from such an attack would be AssadCo - as both media and government figures quickly (and predictably) blamed the Syrian government.

This is more obvious to you than it is to me. As I mentioned before, from Assad's point of view, it's several hundred of his enemies dead and an object lesson to the rest of them


Sorrry tirob, but what you just said can only be described as bone stupid. First, "several hundred"? That's a paltry number in this conflict. Second, "his enemies"? The collateral damage of such an attack (women, children, non-combatants) likely outnumber "rebels" by far, and Third, "teach them a lesson??? You realize that you're saying that he 1. gassed his own people, 2. denied that any gassing took place, and 3. claims that if it DID take place, he had nothing to do with it. WHAT KIND OF A "LESSON" IS THAT???

Your "logic"- it isn't logical.

Also, From the Guardian article:

"However, it is also important to note that, analytically and strategically, his alleged use of such weapons defies logic. Beyond the nature of the attack itself, therefore, there are other questions the international community needs to ask.

First, why would the Syrian government use chemical weapons on such a scale while there is a strong team of UN inspectors in Damascus? That would be foolish and reckless.

Second, why would the Syrian army use non-conventional arms when it had already gained the upper hand in Ghouta, a strategic suburb, in the past nine months? The town has been besieged and under constant attack by the Assad forces - they have recently launched a major assault to recapture on the suburb. A few days ago the Syrian National Coalition released a public statement naming Ghouta mintaqa mankuba [a disaster area] and calling on the international community to pressure Assad to allow food and medicine to be delivered to the besieged neighbourhoods.

Third, why would Assad utilise chemical weapons at this stage and bring about a potential western military intervention? His decision to allow the UN to investigate the earlier alleged chemical attacks was designed to neutralise the opposition's calls for direct western intervention.

END QUOTE

Everything points to a false-flag op. Everything.


tirob: Amos Quito: Here's a quote that might help to emphasize how third-parties can indirectly benefit from tragedies suffered by others:

I hope that illustrates the point

I'm sorry to accuse you of deliberate ambiguity again so soon, but which point do you mean?



Bolded for you above.

False flag ops and false intel ops (such as WMD's in Iraq) can be extremely valuable if well played - especially if you have a cooperative media. I'm not saying that Israel is necessarily the culprit - but I'm not saying they aren't either. The CIA, Mossad and others have been up to their eyeballs in this mess - and in the other "spontaneous Arab Spring uprisings" from the get-go.

Did you learn NOTHING from the Iraq scam?


tirob: Amos Quito: OTOH, their enemies would have much to gain by carrying out such an attack IF they could be reasonably sure that AssadCo would be blamed.

And the latter is pretty much a no-brainer, isn't it?

Again, I detect an ambiguity in your question. I'll go so far as to say this, though: I think that Assad's enemies would only carry out a false-flag attack if they were *completely* sure that Assad would be blamed for it. And with all the radar monitoring the eastern Mediterranean these days, I don't think that Israel would even try to get away undetected with throwing a large rock across the border with Syria, much less a rocket with a chemical warhead.



What makes you think that the attack would necessarily have been launched from Israel?  That sounds like a pretty far-fetched scenario to me, tirob.

You think that the Palestinians are clever enough to sneak in missiles, munitions and rockets into Gaza, but there is NO WAI that interested parties with vastly greater resources could POSSIBLY sneak a chemical weapon into the middle of the Syrian chaos?

Bullshiat. The weapon need not have even been fired. It could have been smuggled in and detonated on site.

I've told you before that I have you Farkied as "tirob the honorable", because I saw you make a 180 degree change your position when evidence was properly presented. But that was in the Zimmerman case - perhaps you see this as a bit more personal? Because I'm have a hard time accepting the notion that you are this gullible / dense.

But don't feel bad, most people are buying the bullshiat, just like you - just like they bought the SADDAM HAS WMD's lies that took us into Iraq.

But hey, at least Iraq was "good for Israel", no?
2013-08-22 09:54:21 PM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: Sovereign nations can act when its obvious things needed acting on. See France in Mali, the fact off the matter unfortunately is that we are the only nation on the planet that can project the power required in this situation (remote drones, cruise missiles, carrier groups, logistical support, etc..)

Sometimes, someone has to step up and do something lest we all stand to the sidelines. It sucks being that person sometimes, but it's gotta get done


Sorry, I can't agree with you.  35 years of trying to help in that geographic cesspool has only ended up with us being the butt of jokes and the target of hostility and animosity.  There are entire nations who's power base is founded on resisting "American Imperialism".  Fine.  You want us out?  We're out.

fark em.  Let them sort their own shiat out this time.
2013-08-22 12:50:53 PM
1 votes:
If France doesn't care for what Syria is doing, I suggest they team up with Israel (who also seem to dislike Syria) and have a go at them. Both France and Israel are nuclear powers with decent military forces, so I'm sure they can clean up what is left of the Syrian forces fairly quickly. We here in the US are done with blowing up stuff halfways across the planet, it's time we worried about fixing our economy and not spilling blood and treasure in yet another potential quagmire.
2013-08-22 12:26:49 PM
1 votes:
Russia is calling this a false-flag op.

Syria chemical weapons use reports are pre-planned provocation - Russian Foreign Ministry

QUOTE:


"The fact that agenda-driven regional mass media have begun an aggressive attack at once, as if on command, laying all responsibility on the government, draws attention," the ministry quoted Lukashevich as saying in a statement on Wednesday.

"It is apparently no coincidence that information like this regarding the authorities using chemical weapons has been thrown in before, including in the past days, citing some opposition sources, however it was not confirmed later," Lukashevich said.

"All this can only lead us to think that we are dealing again with a provocation planned in advance," Lukashevich said.

"The fact that the criminal action near Damascus was carried out just when the mission of UN experts to investigate the statements on possible chemical weapons use there has successfully begun its work in Syria points to this," the statement said."

END QUOTE


I'm inclined to agree.
2013-08-22 12:18:47 PM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: The rebels were repeatedly asking for US intervention in the institution of a No Fly Zone. I think when a conflict is occurring and one side has kids dying and asks for help, then we are morally obligated to do something. Like I said, obliterate the military power through strategic strikes that are easily done using cruise missiles and drones, institute a No Fly Zone, send aid to the refugee camps and tell the Rebels that it's your country, you do what you want just no killing kids with mass destruction weapons


No, we really aren't.

Kids die all over the world every day.  Thousands of them.  Many to violence in the ongoing conflicts that never seem to stop.  This just seems more horrible because it was a chemical weapons attack.  They are still dead though as much as if it had been by fire, explosion, bullet, or cruelty.

We should not meddle in the internal affairs of nations.  The Syrian rebels are a conglomeration of resistance groups in the nation now.  Those groups include some of the people we have already been fighting for 10 years.  You want to now go in and help them because of one event?

Let the UN do something if there is world consensus.  If the world doesn't want us to police it when things are quiet then we shouldn't be doing so when things are chaotic either.
2013-08-22 11:39:42 AM
1 votes:
We keep trying to save everyone when we should just allow natural selection to happen. Let them kill each other, decrease the population over time, wall ourselves and our interests in and let nature take over. War and violence is a symptom of being human, I say treat it like any other disease and let it do it's job, not go about curing it.

Although the images are horrible and as a parent it kills me to see dead children, every time we become entangled, we lose in the end. I've had enough.
2013-08-22 11:12:44 AM
1 votes:
Syria is not about oil, it's about natural gas, specifically where pipelines for Middle Eastern NG supplies should go. Syria and Iran (Shia) support a pipeline that would allow Russia to gain even greater market share in NATO countries, which scares the US because it fears NATO could shatter over resource shortages.
So the US is supporting the Syrian rebels (our good Sunni friends) who want to build a friendlier to our interests pipeline to Europe, passing from Qatar to Iraq to Turkey and Israel(?). The CIA is helping our good friends Al Qaeda in the revolution against the Syrian government.
This was covered in yesterday's 2nd Al Jazeera thread by some informed farker. I'll dig up his links if anyone cares.
2013-08-22 11:11:56 AM
1 votes:

IdBeCrazyIf: When I saw the images last night dead and dying kids all I personally could think of was the moment in the Punisher Dirty Laundry short where Frank is standing in the doorway watching the violence unfold outside and the liquor store owner sits there and says "Makes you wanna do something, doesn't it?"

And right now we're just standing in the doorway doing nothing, lamenting "There's always a war on somewhere"

Enough is farking enough. Strategically bomb Assad's army into the farking ground, institute a no fly zone and inform the rebels that in the end game when kids die whoever killed em is dying as well...no matter which side.


By that logic, we should be doing that to every single war going on right now. You wanna go look at them, count 'em up for me? Where do you think the money for that is coming from? And what makes you think we have the moral right to interfere in someone else's conflict?

Yeah, it sucks, but our ethical and financial obligation is to stay the fark out. We don't know these people. We don't know their culture. We aren't them. You can't interfere for another country and make them work shiat out, because historically that ends  very farking badly--and even if it didn't, we do not and never will have the money to pay for more of this shiat.
2013-08-22 10:43:00 AM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Misconduc: Sorry but Syria is a muslim nation, if you look at the recent history of the middle east, screw them.

Indeed. Just screw them.


I'd rather just give them all chemical weapons, and send in people to film it (we have a nice prison population, give them time served) - this way we can sell it on paper view to replace the cost of the bombs. Now let the killings begin!
2013-08-22 10:12:45 AM
1 votes:

mbillips: tirob: fireclown: Somebody damned well should.
.

How about Turkey?  They're right next door, they have a modern military, and Assad's troops would be scared to death of them.

This. Russia and Turkey should handle this. Too bad they're on opposing sides. Anyone want to replay 1828-29? How about 1878-79?


I concur.  If this can be handled as a regional problem, it should be.  The Russians have been really standoffish about Syria, but the Turks would be almost ideal.  They have a strong military, they understand the region, and most importantly they aren't a bunch of invading American crusader types.
2013-08-22 10:09:04 AM
1 votes:
Park a carrier group off the coast.  Mail a letter with a proposed cost to the UN.  Offer to take care of the problem if they will just put a $1 billion retainer on a card.  Make sure that the Sec. of the UN signs a personal guarantee.  Then establish a no-fly zone where our pilots can practice their anti-radar attacks and stuff.
2013-08-22 10:00:09 AM
1 votes:

Lady J: HMS_Blinkin: SlothB77: Obama is looking really weak right now with Egypt and Syria.  You don't even hear him condemning them.  The Middle East is a mess right now and he isn't doing a damn thing.  He/ we are allowing evil forces to win.  Evil is killing innocents in Egypt.  Evil is gassing innocents in Syria.  We are allowing evil to spread, to win.  If you allow evil there, don't be surprised when it shows up on your block too.

So what would you do?  Condemn their actions verbally and do nothing?  Wouldn't that look weak?  Would you pick a side in Egypt or Syria?  You say "evil" is gassing innocents in Syria, so would you take the side of Al-Qaeda?  You say "evil" is killing innocents in Egypt, so would you support the Muslim Brotherhood there?  If Obama picked the sides you're calling "innocent," you'd be on here ranting about how he's using American military might to support Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood.  If he did the opposite, we'd all hear about how Assad and Egypt's military gov't aren't legitimate.

SlothB77: Let them kill each other until they are all gone?

Oh, so you'd ALSO do nothing---the exact same thing Obama is doing right now.  Didn't you just describe this exact strategy as "allowing evil to win?"  Or are you just oversimplifying an incredibly complex foreign policy situation (that has no good outcomes and which US intervention really can't do anything but exacerbate) and criticizing any course of action because you don't like the president's party affiliation?

Do nothing: supportin' evil
Support Assad/Egypt's militar government: supportin' evil
Support rebels/Muslim Brotherhood: you better believe that's supportin' evil

tell me what to do. I don't know what to do. i'm not kidding


Drink some coffee (or tea). Work. Spend time with your family and friends. Donate to causes you believe in. And accept that people sometimes engage in mortal conflict and their ain't sh*t you can do about it.
2013-08-22 09:42:24 AM
1 votes:

The First Four Katy Perry Albums: vudukungfu: Syria is in Asia.
Let's not go there.

Foreign policy decisions should definitely be based on quotes from 80's movies.


It's OK the original quote "Never fight a land war in Asia" isn't from an 80s movie it was from General Douglas MacArthur to President Kennedy in 1961.  Seeing as MacArthur was Chief of Staff of the US Army and Supreme Commander of all Allied forces in the Second World War, we may want to take heed.
2013-08-22 09:31:51 AM
1 votes:

Fista-Phobia: jakrabit: Fista-Phobia: rubi_con_man: This is going to sound really sad, but I am ready to just walk away from the Middle East.

How about we just stop doing business there...
Stop flying planes there ...
stop issuing visas to anyone there ...
deny all immigration from there ...
Stop trading there ...
Cut off the Internet top-level routing there ...
Screw 'em. I am sick of caring about pretty much anything or anyone between Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan.

Because dead dinosaurs.

Nah... we've got plenty of their goo right here.

I hear ya. The powers that be seek to make a profit and our government is more than happy to pick up the cost of doing business. The profiteers don't care about where it is.


While  "we" may have plenty of goo the rest of world ie. Europe and Asia do not.  Since the economy is global  you might want to think the impact to our own economy should theirs suffer an oil shock.

Yes we still make and export stuff-it helps to have people who can buy it:

management.curiouscatblog.net


www.mapsofworld.com

Contrary to what the Ron Paulistas would have you believe we have never existed in economic isolation.  In fact, per capita, our population was more dependent on foreign trade in 1776 that in 2013.
2013-08-22 08:58:24 AM
1 votes:

Fista-Phobia: rubi_con_man: This is going to sound really sad, but I am ready to just walk away from the Middle East.

How about we just stop doing business there...
Stop flying planes there ...
stop issuing visas to anyone there ...
deny all immigration from there ...
Stop trading there ...
Cut off the Internet top-level routing there ...
Screw 'em. I am sick of caring about pretty much anything or anyone between Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan.

Because dead dinosaurs.


Exactly.  This something I think is so funny about the national security crowd: they are the last ones to support getting us off of fossil fuels.  It's almost like there is a large oil field services company, that is also a military contractor, lobbying politicians.

Criminy, I hate to give credit to any politician, R or D, but Eisenhower was right:

 "In the councils of government,we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. "
2013-08-22 08:56:17 AM
1 votes:

Klopfer: bearcats1983: I love how the US is expected to be the world's policeman until it's not.

I love how the US always pretend it's all about them.
France: "We think the international community should do something." USA: "Oh noes, they want the USA to do everything in the world!"
France didn't say anything about the US in particular. UN. Not US.


And who do you think the UN goes to when they need something done militarily?  Russia?  China?  The European powers?  In Desert Storm, the US made up 75% of all forces. In Kosovo is was almost everything.

We're good with not intervening, The American people have had enough of conflict overseas.  Just remember that you said you didn't want our help when you start getting bodybags back by the hundreds.  No whining about American isolationism then.
2013-08-22 08:49:29 AM
1 votes:
Somebody damned well should. During my entire time in the Army, it was impressed strongly upon me that NBC weapons were a real game changer, and that once they got used things would ramp up like crazy.  It seems that I was decieved.

If the UN can't agree that this warrents the use of strong military force, I will lose confidence in the institution.  Frankly, I would rather see this done as a UN thing, because it really IS one of those "crimes against humanity" things.  The US going in alone, even for the best of reasons, never seems to work out for us in the long run.
2013-08-22 08:46:13 AM
1 votes:
This didn't use to be hard. Two or three dozen cruise missiles to make the cost of x higher than the price and move along with our lives. You don't have to beat them to a pulp, take them to the hospital, help them through physical therapy, find them a good job, and then have them knife you in the back.

Give them a good black eye and walk off. If they offend us by beating their wife in public again, repeat. If they actually hurt us directly in some way, go full Libya on them and then - this is key - walk the fark off. You break it you buy it isn't a hard and fast rule in international diplomacy. We don't need their oil, Israel can stick up for itself, fark them.
2013-08-22 08:43:48 AM
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: This is going to sound really sad, but I am ready to just walk away from the Middle East.

How about we just stop doing business there...
Stop flying planes there ...
stop issuing visas to anyone there ...
deny all immigration from there ...
Stop trading there ...
Cut off the Internet top-level routing there ...
Screw 'em. I am sick of caring about pretty much anything or anyone between Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan.


Because dead dinosaurs.
2013-08-22 08:41:48 AM
1 votes:

Klopfer: France didn't say anything about the US in particular. UN. Not US.


Except invariably what often happens is we're there to do the heavy lifting either through materials and logistical support or direct action.

I will give France credit where credit is due though, and they did full blown stop Al Qaeda taking over ten buck two
2013-08-22 08:39:02 AM
1 votes:
Syria? That's Russia's problem. They wanted the ball. They've got it.
2013-08-22 08:38:12 AM
1 votes:
I stopped reading the news long ago and am much happier for it, except for the occasional fark excursion.

It's silly to assume you have any personal say in international affairs so might as well focus your time and energy on things you can personally improve.
2013-08-22 08:37:46 AM
1 votes:

bearcats1983: I love how the US is expected to be the world's policeman until it's not.


I love how the US always pretend it's all about them.
France: "We think the international community should do something." USA: "Oh noes, they want the USA to do everything in the world!"
France didn't say anything about the US in particular. UN. Not US.
2013-08-22 08:34:31 AM
1 votes:
Aren't there enough countries in the immediate vicinity that are armed to the teeth with American military hardware who can do this?
2013-08-22 08:29:22 AM
1 votes:
IdBeCrazyIf:

Enough is farking enough. Strategically bomb Assad's army into the farking ground, institute a no fly zone and inform the rebels that in the end game when kids die whoever killed em is dying as well...no matter which side.

The US doesn't exactly have the greatest track record in picking new governments in the Middle East.
2013-08-22 08:25:52 AM
1 votes:

pag1107: This is still a no-win for the US, we either prop up a sociopathic dictator who's family has been nothing but a problem for three generations or we install alQaeda as the legitimate government of Syria.


Let them kill each other until they are all gone?
2013-08-22 08:24:29 AM
1 votes:

I_C_Weener: IdBeCrazyIf: When I saw the images last night dead and dying kids all I personally could think of was the moment in the Punisher Dirty Laundry short where Frank is standing in the doorway watching the violence unfold outside and the liquor store owner sits there and says "Makes you wanna do something, doesn't it?"

And right now we're just standing in the doorway doing nothing, lamenting "There's always a war on somewhere"

Enough is farking enough. Strategically bomb Assad's army into the farking ground, institute a no fly zone and inform the rebels that in the end game when kids die whoever killed em is dying as well...no matter which side.

Won't someone please think of the children?


We need to kill to make sure those that are killing are killed.
2013-08-22 08:23:54 AM
1 votes:
France pulled their forces out of NATO 50 years ago, so let them break out their own white flag this time.

If it's UN forces, then they might look pretty good in baby blue.
2013-08-22 08:22:48 AM
1 votes:
I love how the US is expected to be the world's policeman until it's not. "Come give us aid and do our dirty work, but get the fark out and go to hell when it's resolved." You can't have it both ways, so which is it?
2013-08-22 08:18:39 AM
1 votes:

SDRR: Just like 'Nam?


Oh, snap.
2013-08-22 08:14:36 AM
1 votes:

The Muthaship: How important is our word anyway?


Now, now, you wouldn't want America to lose any ...

tamsonweston.com

... "international credibility"
2013-08-22 08:13:54 AM
1 votes:
You have two choices:

Not do anything

Create a new Iraq/Afghanistan
2013-08-22 08:13:53 AM
1 votes:

rubi_con_man: This is going to sound really sad, but I am ready to just walk away from the Middle East.

How about we just stop doing business there...
Stop flying planes there ...
stop issuing visas to anyone there ...
deny all immigration from there ...
Stop trading there ...
Cut off the Internet top-level routing there ...
Screw 'em. I am sick of caring about pretty much anything or anyone between Egypt, Turkey and Afghanistan.


I agree. There is nothing that Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar or Iran have that we could possibly want.

How about we just stop doing business ...
Stop flying planes ...
stop issuing visas to anyone ...
deny all immigration  ...
Stop trading ...
Cut off the Internet  ...
2013-08-22 08:13:48 AM
1 votes:
Russia and China will block anything to do with Syria, they can do as they please.
2013-08-22 08:11:58 AM
1 votes:
Just walk back the red line.  How important is our word anyway?
 
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