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(People Magazine)   Bradley Manning just wants to be called Chelsea?   (people.com) divider line 144
    More: Weird, Bradley Manning, United States armed forces, WikiLeaks, Fort Meade, Pfc, prepared statement, documents  
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3990 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 7:59 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 12:15:00 PM

msaturn: Wow. The keyboard toughguys really came out for this one. I sure hope mocking someone with more cajones than you'll ever have  who doesn't even want them made your day.


Irrational actions aren't the same as brave or courageous ones.

/referring to the data dumping, not his gender identification.
 
2013-08-22 12:16:50 PM

Comic Book Guy: No Time To Explain: oh, look, more character assassination from the military, how mature of them

/seriously, what relevance does this have on his case?
//and if he didn't show the bullshiat the US military was doing, who would have?
///free Chelsea Manning

How is this character assassination if Manning him(her?)self is publicly releasing this info?  He attempted to use this in the sentencing phase for fark's sake.  At this point, regardless of what I think about his actions (and I can make arguments for and against), he's simply attention whoring.

I see that someone already went through Wikipedia and edited all the his's to her's, that didn't take long.


Because it's considered bigoted to not immediately accept a transgendered person's preferred name and gender identity after they have stated it. Gender is self-identified, not assigned by others. If someone doesn't like Manning, fine, but people should express that in ways that don't offend innocent transgendered people.
 
2013-08-22 12:18:12 PM

MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it


There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.
 
2013-08-22 12:21:26 PM

Myria: The only thing worse than being trapped in Leavenworth is being trapped in the wrong body.

/would know


Holy shiat!  Whose body did they give you?!  Where did they hide your body?!  Was it the government?  Aliens?!
 
2013-08-22 12:21:26 PM

msaturn: Wow. The keyboard toughguys really came out for this one. I sure hope mocking someone with more cajones than you'll ever have  who doesn't even want them made your day.


So basically, you're saying it takes balls not to want your balls?  Huh....well I'm glad that's been cleared up.
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-08-22 12:35:29 PM
assets.diylol.com
 
2013-08-22 12:36:10 PM
I was hoping for a life sentence and ban from making any money off the events....

And he gets 7 years, boobs and even more supporters who are out of touch with reality.


Sad
 
2013-08-22 12:41:36 PM

Myria: The only thing worse than being trapped in Leavenworth is being trapped in the wrong body.

/would know


So when were you in Leavenworth?
 
2013-08-22 12:42:19 PM

OnlyM3: Mose

He doesn't make for a very attractive woman.
Chelsea's are never attractive menwomen


img.fark.net

I concur
i.perezhilton.com
 
2013-08-22 01:03:02 PM

captainktainer: The prosecution hasn't been releasing this; rather, the defense explicitly used this in the sentencing phase in the trial - and before, in an attempt to garner sympathy. Part of Manning's defense is that he experienced abuse and mental health issues that should have kept him away from classified information, which he was no longer capable of caring for with the proper respect. It worked; Manning's sentence is much less than he could have gotten at the start.

Also, people referring to Manning as "she" are jumping the gun; Bradley Manning is struggling with gender identity disorder but has not begun the process of transitioning, and probably never will, as no ethical therapist is going to sanction hormonal treatment or any other step in the transition process without first getting other mental health issues under control - and that isn't likely to happen while he's in the hole in Leavenworth. In all likelihood, because Manning is likely developmentally delayed by a mild case of fetal alcoholism syndrome (according to his defense, and I think that's reasonable), he's probably still in the questioning stage. Unless he and his health care team decide that gender transition is appropriate, referring to him by birth gender is appropriate.


Very well said.

Bradley is a male until professionals evaluate him and recommend/confirm he should undergo the necessary procedures.
 
2013-08-22 01:07:42 PM
He already looks better than Chelsea Clinton.
 
2013-08-22 01:08:45 PM
This has been pretty common knowledge for some time.
 
2013-08-22 01:14:32 PM

ScouserDuck: msaturn: Wow. The keyboard toughguys really came out for this one. I sure hope mocking someone with more cajones than you'll ever have  who doesn't even want them made your day.

Irrational actions aren't the same as brave or courageous ones.

/referring to the data dumping, not his gender identification.


Yeah, 'cuz that's totally rational.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:46 PM

Nem Wan: Comic Book Guy: No Time To Explain: oh, look, more character assassination from the military, how mature of them

/seriously, what relevance does this have on his case?
//and if he didn't show the bullshiat the US military was doing, who would have?
///free Chelsea Manning

How is this character assassination if Manning him(her?)self is publicly releasing this info?  He attempted to use this in the sentencing phase for fark's sake.  At this point, regardless of what I think about his actions (and I can make arguments for and against), he's simply attention whoring.

I see that someone already went through Wikipedia and edited all the his's to her's, that didn't take long.

Because it's considered bigoted to not immediately accept a transgendered person's preferred name and gender identity after they have stated it. Gender is self-identified, not assigned by others. If someone doesn't like Manning, fine, but people should express that in ways that don't offend innocent transgendered people.


I don't see how continuing to refer to Manning as Bradley or "him" is offensive to innocent transgendered people, or really anyone not named Bradley/Chelsea Manning.  If Manning wants to be identified as a woman, then he should undergo all the necessary transgender procedures/processes to make himself into a woman.  The problem with this is that statement would be all well and good (and easily implemented) if he was a civilian, but he's now an incarcerated soldier and that becomes a little harder.  Not to mention that this issue of his only came to light by his own lawyers in a desperate bid to generate sympathy to reduce his sentence, so I can't help but to see some self-interest in that self-identification.
 
2013-08-22 01:25:18 PM

ReapTheChaos
2013-08-22 09:05:08 AM


OnlyM3: Mose

He doesn't make for a very attractive woman.
Chelsea's are never attractive menwomen
[youngeryou.ninemsn.com.au image 353x474]

I beg to differ.

*blink*

I stand corrected.
 
2013-08-22 02:08:13 PM
 bcblue.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-22 02:14:19 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-22 02:22:12 PM
i.imgur.com
You silly bigots. Manning shall be referred to as zhe now and there's nothing you cissy bigots can do about it.
 
2013-08-22 02:23:24 PM
Transgenders have a message for Manning:

thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-22 02:39:48 PM

orbister: MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it

There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.


i meant execute him if/when they found him guilty.  It is treason - which is punishable by death.  instead we coddle
 
2013-08-22 03:06:08 PM

amundb: Kentucky Fried Children: amundb: So they grant Manning a DoD security clearance, a person with known mental health issues, but I was denied my TS-SCI clearance because I smoked a joint once in college. Got it.

I'm willing to bet that is due to you not disclosing your drug use, and it being discovered during your scope investigation?  That'll do it.

/just tell them everything in your inital disclosures / interviews, and you'll be fine
//otherwise, no clearance for you
///and deservedly so

Nope. I disclosed it up front in the paperwork, as I knew I was going to have to take a full scope polygraph. I was then called an idiot by our companies security officer for not lying and actually listing my drug use on the disclosure.

Then again, I saw two other people get refused because they had too much student loan debt, and another person only got their clearance on the condition they had to go to rehab/counseling for alcohol abuse. He said on his disclosure forms he drank 6 beer over the course of a weekend.

Another funny thing was I learned during the security investigation was my oldest brother was actually my half-brother. That was a fun conversation with my mother.

//Was right after 9/11 though
///One of the most angering and embarrassing things to ever happen to me


TIL 6 beers over the course of a weekend is alcohol abuse.
 
2013-08-22 03:49:14 PM

ReapTheChaos: That lipstick and wig is going to be popular where he's going.


The second he's officially diagnosed that'd be a womens prison.

Just saying... this person is going to have the only, temporary working dick in a large building full of women.


/This may not be better than what you're suggesting it about to happen.
 
2013-08-22 03:54:02 PM

Vaneshi: ReapTheChaos: That lipstick and wig is going to be popular where he's going.

The second he's officially diagnosed that'd be a womens prison.

Just saying... this person is going to have the only, temporary working dick in a large building full of women.


/This may not be better than what you're suggesting it about to happen.


www.themarysue.com

It's not quite as cool in real life as it seems in True Blood.
 
2013-08-22 03:55:33 PM
His law-talking-guy was just on CNN saying that he expects the Military to pay for Manning's surgery and therapy, and if they don't he's going to force them to.

F*ck that. Prison isn't meant to be a free-ride for all the expensive surgery and therapy that criminals couldn't afford on their own. Manning can wait seven years to transition while he sits in prison and deals with the consequences of his actions.

Consequences that include having to delay his transition to his true gender-identity for a few years.
 
2013-08-22 03:56:52 PM

Exception Collection: saintstryfe: Well, the VA does cover therapy, hormones and surgery for transsexual people (I know a few former soldiers who were using the military as a way to hide from their reality).

But this sounds fake, personally. "Oh yeah, the guy who was just convicted of betraying his country? Yeah, he also thinks he's a chick."

Sorry, doesn't ring true given everything I've read.

That doesn't mean I don't think his punishment was justified - it was. He did it and it was serious. But this kind of backhanded stuff is what makes this case so terrible.

No, I remember the defense starting a discussion about this a while ago, then it just vanished from the case information published in news articles.

/Being a woman in a male military prison must be hell.
//She can't or won't be transferred to a woman's prison until post-surgery, which is at least a year away.
///I hope that the next President pardons Snowden as performing a service to America (or Obama, but I can't see that happening)
////Manning on the other hand loaded a shotgun of with a scattershot of classified information and deserves punishment for stupidity if nothing else.


Wait, the DEFENSE introduced this?

There's very few more misunderstood, and unreasonably hated groups than Transsexual folks... personal experience speaking here. Why in Celestia's great sunny skies would they choose to let THAT out? His lawyers mighta gotten more traction out of "he kicks the crutches out from under handicapped people".
 
2013-08-22 03:59:32 PM

MBrady: orbister: MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it

There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.

i meant execute him if/when they found him guilty.  It is treason - which is punishable by death.  instead we coddle


If it was treason, don't you think they would have charged him with that?  Words have meanings, maybe you should look that one up.
 
2013-08-22 05:29:17 PM

A Terrible Human: [i.imgur.com image 400x367]
You silly bigots. Manning shall be referred to as zhe now and there's nothing you cissy bigots can do about it.


As a M2F I have to ask.  The fark is that thing and how much do you want to keep it the fark away from me?
 
2013-08-22 06:05:07 PM
Oh well, back to solitary confinement. Before it was to break Pvt Manning, now it will be because the Army won't know where to put the prisoner.
 
2013-08-22 06:35:23 PM

Flying Lasagna Monster: I hope he gets treatment for his mental illness while in prison.


Since when is being an attention whore a mental illness?
 
2013-08-22 06:43:55 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Transgenders have a message for Manning:

[thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


Funny, considering the most prominent transgender atheist is pretty much in hir corner on this.

/Yes, I used "hir". Works for Peter David, works for me.
 
2013-08-22 06:56:00 PM

Max Awesome: His law-talking-guy was just on CNN saying that he expects the Military to pay for Manning's surgery and therapy, and if they don't he's going to force them to.

F*ck that. Prison isn't meant to be a free-ride for all the expensive surgery and therapy that criminals couldn't afford on their own. Manning can wait seven years to transition while he sits in prison and deals with the consequences of his actions.

Consequences that include having to delay his transition to his true gender-identity for a few years.


My understanding is that there hasn't been a definitive ruling on the issue, but Federal courts have generally held that denying hormone therapy and surgery violates the the 8th Amendment. However, none of those rulings have as of yet been applied to the military's prisons, which still has a policy of not providing such things.

I'd say it should be up to his doctors, not the government, to decide if it's a necessary medical treatment or not. For example, the gov't doesn't typically pay for prisoner's elective, cosmetic procedures, but if a doctor decides a woman needs a breast reduction for legit medical reasons (like severe back pain), then the procedure is neither elective nor cosmetic and the government is obligated to provide it the same way they would an appendectomy.
 
2013-08-22 07:52:54 PM

Comic Book Guy: MBrady: orbister: MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it

There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.

i meant execute him if/when they found him guilty.  It is treason - which is punishable by death.  instead we coddle

If it was treason, don't you think they would have charged him with that?  Words have meanings, maybe you should look that one up.


Manning was charged with aiding the enemy and in the same trial that found of guilty of other charges he was found not guilty on THAT charge. If he could not be convicted of aiding the enemy on the facts of this case, he could not have been convicted of treason.
 
2013-08-22 08:03:19 PM

No Time To Explain: oh, look, more character assassination from the military, how mature of them

/seriously, what relevance does this have on his case?



Why wouldn't they do that? You can see how well it plays with the IQ 80s around here - they eat it up.
 
2013-08-22 08:20:13 PM

Comic Book Guy: MBrady: orbister: MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it

There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.

i meant execute him if/when they found him guilty.  It is treason - which is punishable by death.  instead we coddle

If it was treason, don't you think they would have charged him with that?  Words have meanings, maybe you should look that one up.


Okay fark face:

Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter or classified information.  If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power the United States to attack or resist its enemies, and and comfort has been given.

English language, maybe you should comprehend it first.
 
2013-08-22 08:21:59 PM

Nem Wan: Comic Book Guy: MBrady: orbister: MBrady: should have charged him/her/it with treason and executed him/her/it

There's usually another stage between "charging" and " executing". Maybe that isn't needed any more in the Land of the Free.

i meant execute him if/when they found him guilty.  It is treason - which is punishable by death.  instead we coddle

If it was treason, don't you think they would have charged him with that?  Words have meanings, maybe you should look that one up.

Manning was charged with aiding the enemy and in the same trial that found of guilty of other charges he was found not guilty on THAT charge. If he could not be convicted of aiding the enemy on the facts of this case, he could not have been convicted of treason.


So if he wasn't convicted of aiding the enemy, and wasn't charged with treason, then what the fark are you talking about?
 
2013-08-22 09:06:20 PM
MBrady:

Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter or classified information.  If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power the United States to attack or resist its enemies, and and comfort has been given.

English language, maybe you should comprehend it first.


Wow, the next sentence after the one you highlighted makes my case for me.  The leak itself did not provably weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist it's enemies, so the "aid and comfort" test was not satisfied.  You should really learn some critical thinking instead of looking for the one piece of information out of context that is even remotely relevant and holding that up as your entire case.  I bet you write Fox News's copy, you'd do a bang-up job at it.
 
2013-08-22 09:24:24 PM
Good for her. I wonder if the powers that be would tolerate counselling, administering hormones or any such options. I really hope they would but have come to expect the worst. They absolutely should; no different than denying any other life saving medication. Even when I wasn't on insurance hormone therapy only rang up around $22 a month. There's no good reason not to allow her to transition.

OtherLittleGuy: Transgenders have a message for Manning:

[thesignalinthenoise.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


She's a pretty high profile person. It will probably help if only to be on the news, and maybe have people raise questions/become curious about what transgender means.

/trans
//non contagious
 
2013-08-22 09:24:50 PM

Comic Book Guy: MBrady:

Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter or classified information.  If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power the United States to attack or resist its enemies, and and comfort has been given.

English language, maybe you should comprehend it first.

Wow, the next sentence after the one you highlighted makes my case for me.  The leak itself did not provably weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist it's enemies, so the "aid and comfort" test was not satisfied.  You should really learn some critical thinking instead of looking for the one piece of information out of context that is even remotely relevant and holding that up as your entire case.   I bet you write Fox News's copy, you'd do a bang-up job at it.


the rest of us did not realize that you were such and expert in national security.  maybe you should apply for a nsa or cia job so you can make all those decisions on your own.  you could even second guess hillary  you'd do a bang up job of giving away all of our secrets to Al Quiada and the Taliban.  Or do you do that already?

there you go again - pulling shiat out of your ass as usual - just like a typical liberal arts basement living college grad liberal.
 
2013-08-22 09:45:13 PM

bikerbob59: And the American taxpayer is going to foot the bill for this.  Nice.


I made the mistake of reading, and speaking up on, the story on Boing Boing.  Apparently there is legal precedent for the government paying for reassignment surgery as an 8th Amendment issue.  Yes, really.  Because being a man is exactly like waterboarding.

Some argued that it's a super-serious disease, being a man when you feel like a woman.

So, let's review: wanting $20,000 elective plastic surgery while you're in prison for the largest security leak in human history: human rights issue.

At least they goofed and used the "he" pronoun on his...dammit, her...photo.  Made for some interesting popcorn fodder.
 
2013-08-22 10:29:15 PM

Mateorocks: PiffMan420: HotIgneous Intruder: macadamnut: News Flash - unbalanced closet case joins the Army.

... and the Army gives him a Top Secret security clearance.

How this unbalanced fark-up was allowed near classified information is BEYOND me. The wiki page is a laundry list of mental health issues, insuborniation and outright misconduct.

I'm a veteran. I was in the infantry. You should meet some of the people that the Army gave LOADED RIFLES to...


I was always more worried about the people they gave OTHER PEOPLE to.

/The only thing worse than a 2LT is a MAJ
 
2013-08-22 11:23:14 PM

jso2897: No Time To Explain: oh, look, more character assassination from the military, how mature of them

/seriously, what relevance does this have on his case?


Why wouldn't they do that? You can see how well it plays with the IQ 80s around here - they eat it up.


Apparently you didn't read that Manning released the information himself, it wasn't the military.
 
2013-08-23 12:30:47 AM
I'd hit it.
 
2013-08-23 12:50:02 AM

Churchill2004: Max Awesome: His law-talking-guy was just on CNN saying that he expects the Military to pay for Manning's surgery and therapy, and if they don't he's going to force them to.

F*ck that. Prison isn't meant to be a free-ride for all the expensive surgery and therapy that criminals couldn't afford on their own. Manning can wait seven years to transition while he sits in prison and deals with the consequences of his actions.

Consequences that include having to delay his transition to his true gender-identity for a few years.

My understanding is that there hasn't been a definitive ruling on the issue, but Federal courts have generally held that denying hormone therapy and surgery violates the the 8th Amendment. However, none of those rulings have as of yet been applied to the military's prisons, which still has a policy of not providing such things.

I'd say it should be up to his doctors, not the government, to decide if it's a necessary medical treatment or not. For example, the gov't doesn't typically pay for prisoner's elective, cosmetic procedures, but if a doctor decides a woman needs a breast reduction for legit medical reasons (like severe back pain), then the procedure is neither elective nor cosmetic and the government is obligated to provide it the same way they would an appendectomy.


I am sorry but NONONONONO. If the goverment, via tricare, was paying for these procedures for active duty or dependents of active duty soldiers then I might not have a problem. As it is they do not, so there is no reason a criminal should get treatment that good non criminal people do not get. I mean hells bells, we are not even to the point in the military of recognizing legal gay marriages and granting those spouses rights that other dependents have. Plus during sequestration dependents have seen a significant decrease in Health benefits. So fark this guy for thinking that as a criminal he is more important than everyone else.
 
2013-08-23 01:47:31 AM

BigNumber12: Mateorocks: I'm a veteran. I was in the infantry. You should meet some of the people that the Army gave LOADED RIFLES to...

A guy with a loaded rifle can kill maybe a handful of people before being taken down himself. A guy sitting in an office can kill many, many more people, without breaking a sweat. Just look at Obama.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
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