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(The New York Times)   Ichiro Suzuki is now "Mr. 4000"   (nytimes.com) divider line 19
    More: Cool, Ichiro Suzuki, Yankees, Mets, Josh Thole, playoffs, Jayson Nix, Eduardo Nunez, Subway Series  
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844 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Aug 2013 at 8:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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2013-08-22 11:43:40 AM  
2 votes:
Something else to point out...

Ichiro got to his 2722 MLB hits faster than anyone ever, even Rose, so it's no stretch to imagine he would have easily eclipsed 4000 had he played his whole career in MLB.
2013-08-22 09:20:46 AM  
2 votes:

wxboy: So what are people's feelings about counting his career in Japan towards the 4,000?  What if he were to approach Pete Rose's mark using that metric?  I don't know how the skill levels and competitiveness of Japanese baseball compare to MLB.  Should we also consider minor league stats when applying these types of accolades to players who spend their whole career in the U.S.?


NPB teams are usually rated between AAA and MLB, and the gap narrows a little each year.  At the beginning of Ichiro's NPB career, AAA is probably a fair assessment.  The best players obviously can thrive over here (Ichiro, Darvish, etc.).  It used to be a pitcher's league, but now the scoring is pretty comparable to the US.

I don't think anyone will compare them head-to-head without adding the caveat, but I think it's still worth acknowledging the accomplishments of players with impressive professional career tallies like Ichiro, Saduharo Oh, Mike D, etc.

That all said, Pete Rose is a dick, and Ichiro is awesome.  MLB should troll Rose by holding massive Ichiro celebrations.

In similar news, I think the Yankees should hold a random "Derek Jeter Appreciation Day" during one of A-Rod's appeal games, and arrange for A-Rod to hand Jeter a trophy inscribed "The greatest shortstop ever to play for the Yankees".  If A-Rod wants to troll the baseball world, the baseball world should troll A-Rod.
2013-08-22 09:19:14 AM  
2 votes:
The Japanese league numbers will be referenced for Ichiro's Hall Of Fame plaque, but that's it.

Still, HOF.
2013-08-22 09:18:29 AM  
2 votes:
First Ballot. Anything less is a joke.
2013-08-22 02:59:31 PM  
1 votes:

Slow To Return: Japanese pitchers are tough, which is why we're starting to see more and more of them making the transition to MLB


Considering that Japanese leagues would probably lose to AAA teams, this should not be recognized for his career.  Do AAA, Mexican, or Dominican league teams carry over their hits to the majors?
2013-08-22 02:04:16 PM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: DeWayne Mann: Hey, you wanna look uninformed and stupid? Be my guest.

But I'm gonna keep pointing it out. Fair warning.

Hey, wanna look douchey and idiotic? Be my guest.

But I'll start pointing it out. Fair warning.

Idiot.


I swear to god I will turn this car around.
2013-08-22 01:48:09 PM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: DeWayne Mann: Yes, because I'm sure that if I broke down what they were all doing, THAT would make you admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.

How about you take the time to do a little research on the subject before making stuff up, ok? That's all I ask.

Sorry brah, that's not how it works. I do my own research as you can see from my other posts. I don't have to do the research to support YOUR points.

And going by your posts, your attitude is that of a pissing contest, not actual conversation, so yeah, good luck on that.


Hey, you wanna look uninformed and stupid? Be my guest.

But I'm gonna keep pointing it out. Fair warning.
2013-08-22 01:45:01 PM  
1 votes:

DeWayne Mann: Yes, because I'm sure that if I broke down what they were all doing, THAT would make you admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.

How about you take the time to do a little research on the subject before making stuff up, ok? That's all I ask.


Sorry brah, that's not how it works. I do my own research as you can see from my other posts. I don't have to do the research to support YOUR points.

And going by your posts, your attitude is that of a pissing contest, not actual conversation, so yeah, good luck on that.
2013-08-22 01:36:00 PM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: Why are you even arguing then?


If you (or anyone else) say something factually incorrect in a baseball thread, I will call you on it. That's what I do.

rocky_howard: Prove it. Just name dropping someone =/= proof of domination.


Yes, because I'm sure that if I broke down what they were all doing, THAT would make you admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.

How about you take the time to do a little research on the subject before making stuff up, ok? That's all I ask.

The Bestest: I -knew- you'd say that.


Hey now, I ALMOST said "Because I hate fun, two words: Jigger Statz."

Job Creator: Cecil Fielder
Randy Bass
Davey Johnson


I was mostly aiming for more recent guys to avoid the inevitable "well, that was 30 years ago so it doesn't count!", but yep. These guys too. The story of Randy Bass is particularly amusing.
2013-08-22 12:55:27 PM  
1 votes:

RminusQ: Ichiro said that he does not have Rose's 4,256 on his radar, but he does have a hit total in mind.

With 4,000 career hits now crossed off the to-do list, Ichiro can now turn his focus to joining the 3,000-hit club in the Majors. He sits just 278 hits shy of that achievement, and is under contract with the Yankees through the 2014 season.

"I think that's a goal that is easier to make," Ichiro said. "Nobody will say anything about 3,000. There will be no debating from any fans or media."

So... Ichiro doesn't have Rose's total on his radar, since that's a whole 256 hits away. But he thinks an easier goal to reach is 3,000 MLB hits, which is just 278 hits away.

[i1.kym-cdn.com image 268x268]


Clearly Ichiro is aware of the type of debate happening in this thread, and would like everyone to shut up once and for all.
2013-08-22 12:13:28 PM  
1 votes:
Ichiro Suzuki is now "Mr. 4000"

lol no

He's still a first ballot HOFer but lol no
2013-08-22 11:51:41 AM  
1 votes:

The Bestest: Something else to point out...

Ichiro got to his 2722 MLB hits faster than anyone ever, even Rose, so it's no stretch to imagine he would have easily eclipsed 4000 had he played his whole career in MLB.


Not to mention Rose played until he was FORTY FIVE!!

And like you said, it took Ichiro 13 years to do reach 2722, while it took Rose 14 to reach 2762

And even better, Ichiro has played from 27 to 39. Rose hits during those years were just 2,265.

"But Ichiro became a full player at 20!! Rose at 22. Not fair!" Okay, from 25 to 37 Rose got 2,244.

Ichiro is a better hitter any way you look at it.
2013-08-22 11:26:37 AM  
1 votes:

rocky_howard: "Wily Mo Pena hasn't been quite so dominant in the Pacific League, but he does have seven homers, two more than anyone else there. He'shiatting .309/.374/.591, despite having struck out 31 times in 110 at-bats."

So this piece of news confirms my statements: Since he's physically stronger, his power made up for it. He still struck out a lot.

Now, let's see his best season overhere:


Lg    G    PA    AB    R    H    2B    3B    HR    RBI    SB    CS    BB    SO    BA    OBP    SLG    OPS    OPS+

AL    84  304  276   36   83   15      2      11      42      0       1      20     90   .301   .349    .489     .838       110


Are you seriously trying to say a 591 slugging is similar to a 489 because "he still struck out a lot?"

There are no Japanese players who weren't any good over there, then came here and were good.
2013-08-22 11:26:13 AM  
1 votes:
Meh. His on base percentage sucks for a leadoff hitter, and he plays the least-important defensive position. Dude is incredibly overrated.
2013-08-22 10:48:38 AM  
1 votes:

wxboy: rocky_howard: Anyway, regarding Ichiro, MLB should count the stats for players who played in both leagues. They're comparable enough that it's fair (hur dur, NPB is lower. yeah? Tell me about all those American players who have gone to Japan and teared the competition there. Oh wait, you can't.

My impression of American players who have gone to Japan is that they do so because they can't get a spot here, where I imagine the pay is significantly higher.  And they can't get a spot here because they no longer have the talent to compete here, but evidently they're still good enough to merit being signed to a Japanese team.

That's why MLB is better than NLB, because the pay is better, which attracts all the best players.


Of course it is but Ichiro had no problem hitting lots of hits in the NLB and had no problem hitting lots of hits in the MLB so I'm guessing if he came over on day one he would have been near or at 4000 hits regardless.
2013-08-22 10:30:16 AM  
1 votes:
Even if you combine majors and minors, the list of professional ball players with 4000 hits is as follows:

Rose
Cobb
Musial
Aaron
Statz (stayed in the PCL because he made just as much as in the majors)

I'd be willing to bet that the Japanese league is as good or better than the minors. So, if Ichiro is the sixth player on the above list...that is pretty goddamn good.

Not to mention he has a goddamn laser rocket arm and was probably one of the fastest in the league 10 years ago.
2013-08-22 10:21:07 AM  
1 votes:

chimp_ninja: Lt. Cheese Weasel: First Ballot. Anything less is a joke.

Absolutely.  My favorite comparable is Roberto Clemente:

1) Pretty good bat.  (Ichiro lacks power and patience, but is obviously awesome at contact.  Clemente was a more balanced package, but around the same overall quality.)


If there's a comparable in terms of bat control, Wade Boggs would be Ichiro's doppleganger.  Ichiro had such good bat control, he could change his swing and hit 20-30 HRs if he had so wished.
2013-08-22 09:24:17 AM  
1 votes:

Lt. Cheese Weasel: First Ballot. Anything less is a joke.


Absolutely.  My favorite comparable is Roberto Clemente:

1) Pretty good bat.  (Ichiro lacks power and patience, but is obviously awesome at contact.  Clemente was a more balanced package, but around the same overall quality.)
2) Historically-good defensive RF.
3) Great ambassador for baseball who helped open the game to new audiences.

Ichiro's also a historically good baserunner, which is just gravy.

See also: Brooks Robinson.  Not quite a good enough hitter to be in the HOF, but you make the case with the glove.
2013-08-22 09:15:23 AM  
1 votes:

wxboy: So what are people's feelings about counting his career in Japan towards the 4,000?  What if he were to approach Pete Rose's mark using that metric?  I don't know how the skill levels and competitiveness of Japanese baseball compare to MLB.  Should we also consider minor league stats when applying these types of accolades to players who spend their whole career in the U.S.?


I think it's fine to count those hits in a personal achievement sense, but not in record-holder sense.  Otherwise Sadaharu Oh would be the home run king.

Outrageous Muff: Ichiro and Jeter both embody how the game is supposed to be played, which is a solid contrast to the shiat stain that is A-Rod.


This
 
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