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(The New York Times)   Japanese firms attempt to bore unwanted employees into quitting voluntarily. Fark: by giving them subby's dream job   (nytimes.com) divider line 126
    More: Strange, Japanese, Japan, Jefferies & Company, Osaka University, boredom, Sendai, law of similars, layoffs  
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15467 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2013 at 9:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



126 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-22 09:09:54 AM  
Retire at 51 in Japan?  Sign me up...
 
2013-08-22 09:15:10 AM  
"I won't leave," Mr. Tani said. "Companies aren't supposed to act this way. It's inhumane."

The Holocaust is inhumane. North Korean prison camps are inhumane.  You are simply irrelevant and don't wish to go out and find a new job. And that's cool, but not inhumane.
 
2013-08-22 09:19:27 AM  
My god, I would get so much reading done.
 
2013-08-22 09:20:39 AM  
dilbert.com
 
2013-08-22 09:20:39 AM  
Dude..... Dream. Job.
 
2013-08-22 09:20:52 AM  
Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.
 
2013-08-22 09:21:05 AM  
My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back
 
2013-08-22 09:21:29 AM  

Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.


Or so you think...

www.martyafterdark.com
 
2013-08-22 09:21:30 AM  

Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.


Until...

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-22 09:21:54 AM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


A job I used to have used to make people they wanted to get rid of the director of "special projects" as there were no special projects.   Gave you time to work on your resume and go on job interviews.
 
2013-08-22 09:22:03 AM  
Here's a crazy idea:  a government and/or private sector initiative to retrain obsolete workers with modern skills.

Offer him half-tuition or something; cheaper than paying him to sit in a room...farking waste.

/crazy idea is crazy
//probably socialist, too
 
2013-08-22 09:22:36 AM  

ds_4815: Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.

Until...

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 320x218]


Ooh, so close...
 
2013-08-22 09:23:12 AM  

bdub77: "I won't leave," Mr. Tani said. "Companies aren't supposed to act this way. It's inhumane."

The Holocaust is inhumane. North Korean prison camps are inhumane.  You are simply irrelevant and don't wish to go out and find a new job. And that's cool, but not inhumane.


Tell him about the UAW's plan for guys like him.  Take the early retirement with a signing bonus or get laid-off and sit for however long it takes for you to be needed again and get called back.  Till then you do the same stuff he is doing only without a paycheck.
 
2013-08-22 09:23:23 AM  

Raging Thespian: Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.

Or so you think...

[www.martyafterdark.com image 540x405]


By ONE BLOODY SECOND, you schmuck.
 
2013-08-22 09:25:26 AM  

PunGent: Here's a crazy idea:  a government and/or private sector initiative to retrain obsolete workers with modern skills.

Offer him half-tuition or something; cheaper than paying him to sit in a room...farking waste.

/crazy idea is crazy
//probably socialist, too


Probably cheaper to just pay off some politicians.

Let's do the math: 40 people, probably roughly 4 million+ a year for 10 years. Probably not the whole picture either.

Donate 40 million to a bunch of politicians so companies can layoff employees at will.
 
2013-08-22 09:25:27 AM  
For a country that has long prided itself on stability and relatively equitable incomes,

As long as your privates dangle.
 
2013-08-22 09:25:41 AM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


It would probably get a little boring after a while if you couldn't leave the room until the end of the day.
 
2013-08-22 09:26:31 AM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


I'm guessing it's a cultural thing where you're supposed to be deeply ashamed that you're not working your fingers to the bone every second of the day to contribute to the greater glory of the company or something.

I wish they'd try that here in the U.S.
 
2013-08-22 09:27:18 AM  
I remember reading somewhere that once apon a time that a certain railroad company had modernized equipment and made a bunch of jobs redundant and unnecesary.
however, they couldn't find anywhere to move the employees to, and union contracts forbid firing them.

so they had the guys come back to thier now empty workplace and just hangout all day. There wasnt anything for them to do, and they werent allowed to talk, eat, read, etc..
 
2013-08-22 09:28:02 AM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


That's how we roll in America
 
2013-08-22 09:28:12 AM  
Geesh a company being held accountable for the employees that helped them get where they are.
We must get rid of this immediatly.
 
2013-08-22 09:29:57 AM  
I have a friend who worked in japan and this used to drive him insane.  The most senior employees would do absolutely nothing because there was nobody senior to them to tell them to get to work.  Meanwhile the younger workers are coming in 3 hours early every day.
 
2013-08-22 09:30:04 AM  

littlett's: Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.

It would probably get a little boring after a while if you couldn't leave the room until the end of the day.


If it was only internet access maybe, but if you can bring reading material too?  Sheeeit.  Sign me up!  I have a huge backlog in my "to read" pile.
 
2013-08-22 09:31:57 AM  

NutWrench: Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.

I'm guessing it's a cultural thing where you're supposed to be deeply ashamed that you're not working your fingers to the bone every second of the day to contribute to the greater glory of the company or something.

I wish they'd try that here in the U.S.


Me too, I'd totally pretend to be ashamed for that job.
 
2013-08-22 09:32:39 AM  
Most companies are loathe to outright fire people - wrongful termination suits are not something they want to risk as employee rights are strong, they really want them to quit on their own (or make it appear so) and will go to great lengths to do so. Many domestic companies here simply suddenly transfer you to some other podunk office of a subsidiary. The foreign firms often only have one office so transferring is not an option within Japan plus they don`t like to play games. Some of the larger US investment banks transferred people to Hong Kong or Singapore during the financial crisis and fired them there after having them sign a local contract as the payout was only 2 weeks vs about one month per year which is an accepted minimum payout here.


/ headhunter in Japan & APAC
// living in Tokyo for over 12 yrs
/// advise gaijin CEOs about the labor laws
 
2013-08-22 09:33:07 AM  

Nhojwolfe: Geesh a company being held accountable for the employees that helped them get where they are.
We must get rid of this immediatly.


Yeah god forbid Sony stop making magnetic tape in 2013.
 
2013-08-22 09:35:52 AM  

Raging Thespian: Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.

Or so you think...

[www.martyafterdark.com image 540x405]


nice!
 
2013-08-22 09:39:02 AM  
Dude, you made magnetic tapes. Either you didn't read the writing on the wall or you ignored it, but about your mid 30's you should have seen the optical disk was going to completely chase you out of your job.

As for myself... I know it looks like e-readers are taking the lead, but the same sort of person who would read Gibbon's Decline and Fall on an e-reader would surely object to drinking chardonnay from a styrofoam cup. The 600 year old tech will remain.
 
2013-08-22 09:43:44 AM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


Maybe you shouldn't have gone on vacation.

/this is how assholes justify their existence.
 
2013-08-22 09:43:47 AM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


Right? Sign me up!
 
2013-08-22 09:45:54 AM  
Last job I had, my boss tried to get me to quit because he couldn't fire me, so he cut my hours down to 20 a week. I went home every day at lunch time and loved the hell out of it. This lasted about a year until one of the other workers in our department of three got cancer and took an extended leave. I worked full time for a few more months until my other coworker took a three week vacation and it was just me in the office. I called in sick two days in a row and quit on the third day. I still get tickled thinking about that fat lazy bastard running around doing my job for those three weeks.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 09:47:59 AM  

wildcardjack: Dude, you made magnetic tapes. Either you didn't read the writing on the wall or you ignored it, but about your mid 30's you should have seen the optical disk was going to completely chase you out of your job.


And the vast majority of the people (and the people who constantly biatch about Liberal Arts on Fark) want this future for the U.S.  Turn education into job training and then put the people out to pasture when their very specific job training is no longer needed.

This is a problem with this corporation, not with these people.  The corporation doesn't want to spend a dime retraining someone who was specifically "educated" to perform a certain job. 

And, of course the corporate sycophant club on Fark will reply "of course."
 
2013-08-22 09:49:05 AM  
FTA :

"Economists say bringing flexibility to the labor market in Japan would help struggling companies streamline bloated work forces to better compete in the global economy. Fewer restrictions on layoffs could make it easier for Sony to leave loss-ridden traditional businesses and concentrate resources on more innovative, promising ones."

"Labor practices in Japan contrast sharply with those in the United States, where companies are quick to lay off workers when demand slows or a product becomes obsolete. It is cruel to the worker, but it usually gives the overall economy agility. Some economists attribute the lack of a dynamic economy in Western Europe to labor laws similar to Japan's that restrict layoffs."

These are key points. Over the long term, our economy has benefited relative to Europe and Japan's by being more flexible. Europeans and Japanese are much more reluctant to hire new people when demand increases because it is so much more difficult to let them go when it becomes necessary.

Paying people to do nothing or to do something that is worth less than you are paying them is detrimental to the economy.
 
gja
2013-08-22 09:49:06 AM  

BattleFrenchie28: For a country that has long prided itself on stability and relatively equitable incomes,

As long as your privates dangle.


Why so sandy in the v-j?
 
2013-08-22 09:49:45 AM  

Cerebral Knievel: I remember reading somewhere that once apon a time that a certain railroad company had modernized equipment and made a bunch of jobs redundant and unnecesary.
however, they couldn't find anywhere to move the employees to, and union contracts forbid firing them.

so they had the guys come back to thier now empty workplace and just hangout all day. There wasnt anything for them to do, and they werent allowed to talk, eat, read, etc..


My uncle was one of the youngest firemen on the railroad when they switched to diesel.  He could have spent the rest of his career, just riding the trains and reading books.  He liked to keep busy, so after a couple of months, he took a lateral move to another job.  A lot of his co-workers did not (especially those close to retirement).
 
2013-08-22 09:49:53 AM  

turboke:


I was going to mention that comic. I believe it was published just last week.
 
2013-08-22 09:53:19 AM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


Not sure how this differs from what I do now.....
 
2013-08-22 09:56:50 AM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


NutWrench: I'm guessing it's a cultural thing where you're supposed to be deeply ashamed that you're not working your fingers to the bone every second of the day to contribute to the greater glory of the company or something.


The main downside is that you're ostracized by your peers.  If you're not pulling your weight that's more work for the rest of us, and that makes you very unpopular, very quickly.  I know a lot of Farkers don't mind being despised but one other thing to consider is that Japan doesn't use offices or cubicles.  You're in a room full of people who ignore you, and mind you the Japanese often don't make much base pay so they have to work overtime to claw their income back up to middle class (they work long hours but they'll often slow down the pace to stretch out the work -- not very efficient).  So for 13 hours a day you're essentially experiencing a social form of sensory deprivation even as you're surrounded by people who can see everything you do.  If you're not an outright sociopath the experience can get downright excruciating.
 
2013-08-22 09:57:14 AM  

d23: This is a problem with this corporation, not with these people.  The corporation doesn't want to spend a dime retraining someone who was specifically "educated" to perform a certain job. 

And, of course the corporate sycophant club on Fark will reply "of course."


If they had positions for those people they would re-train them because the alternative is hiring new people and, you guessed it, training them.  It's a hell of a lot less expensive and risky to retrain existing employees than it is to train new employees.  Keeping the business profitable is in the best interest of the majority of it's employees.
 
2013-08-22 10:01:34 AM  

bdub77: rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back

Maybe you shouldn't have gone on vacation.

/this is how assholes justify their existence.


Nope, I'd just have been sucked up in the rolling RIF patrol with the other 9 people who were in their offices that morning.    As soon as my boss brought on a HR person from another corporate division I knew two things:   I'd been fired and they'd already fired our local HR person.
 
2013-08-22 10:04:43 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: These are key points. Over the long term, our economy has benefited relative to Europe and Japan's by being more flexible. Europeans and Japanese are much more reluctant to hire new people when demand increases because it is so much more difficult to let them go when it becomes necessary.


Except American businesses are reluctant to hire new people when demand increases because they see an opportunity to increase their stock position a few points. The days where Americans had a leg up by quickly firing incompetents and replacing them immediately with someone who doesn't suck are long gone. Now you just get fired because your project grew 3% instead of the expected 5% and noone gets replaced.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 10:05:28 AM  

Egoy3k: d23: This is a problem with this corporation, not with these people.  The corporation doesn't want to spend a dime retraining someone who was specifically "educated" to perform a certain job. 

And, of course the corporate sycophant club on Fark will reply "of course."

If they had positions for those people they would re-train them because the alternative is hiring new people and, you guessed it, training them.  It's a hell of a lot less expensive and risky to retrain existing employees than it is to train new employees.  Keeping the business profitable is in the best interest of the majority of it's employees.


Well you also have to be careful to realize this is japan.  They won't hire anyone that isn't young into a position.  They require people to submit a photo with their CV.  It's illegal, but every company does it and there is no way to enforce it.  I don't know if the same attitude is used with retraining... maybe someone here does?
 
2013-08-22 10:06:42 AM  

bdub77: "I won't leave," Mr. Tani said. "Companies aren't supposed to act this way. It's inhumane."

The Holocaust is inhumane. North Korean prison camps are inhumane.  You are simply irrelevant and don't wish to go out and find a new job. And that's cool, but not inhumane.


Japanese people are just overly dramatic. I had a friend use that word once when I asked if she wanted to get a beef bowl.

Me: "Let's go to Nakau."
Her: "No. It's inhumane."
Me: "What is? The way they treat the cows?"
Her: "No. You have to buy a ticket at that machine and sit at the counter and stuff..."
Me: "I don't think you're using that word properly."

We ended up at a Chinese place.
 
2013-08-22 10:07:05 AM  
See what you get for screwin' up that MicroCon merger?
Capt. Connor approves
Kohai nods
 
2013-08-22 10:08:50 AM  
The amount of work I could get done if I didn't have to do my job is staggering. Sign me up.
 
2013-08-22 10:13:27 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Paying people to do nothing or to do something that is worth less than you are paying them is detrimental to the economy.


Shouldn't we capitalize it as "The Economy" and create small shines in our homes dedicated to it, festooned with fetishes, flowers, and small animal skulls?
 
2013-08-22 10:17:05 AM  

d23: Egoy3k: d23: This is a problem with this corporation, not with these people.  The corporation doesn't want to spend a dime retraining someone who was specifically "educated" to perform a certain job. 

And, of course the corporate sycophant club on Fark will reply "of course."

If they had positions for those people they would re-train them because the alternative is hiring new people and, you guessed it, training them.  It's a hell of a lot less expensive and risky to retrain existing employees than it is to train new employees.  Keeping the business profitable is in the best interest of the majority of it's employees.

Well you also have to be careful to realize this is japan.  They won't hire anyone that isn't young into a position.  They require people to submit a photo with their CV.  It's illegal, but every company does it and there is no way to enforce it.  I don't know if the same attitude is used with retraining... maybe someone here does?


RTFA, it's illegal to lay people off in Japan. It would be monumentally stupid if there was work for these people to hire new people just so they can keep these others banished to the land of wind and ghosts.
 
2013-08-22 10:18:35 AM  
The described job is what any server administration job is when properly done.
 
2013-08-22 10:18:50 AM  
Dream job subby?  Mine is 3rd string NFL quarterback.  I'm already sufficiently bored at work.
 
2013-08-22 10:19:26 AM  
They could call it the Wally Room
 
2013-08-22 10:24:55 AM  

rnatalie: rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back

A job I used to have used to make people they wanted to get rid of the director of "special projects" as there were no special projects.   Gave you time to work on your resume and go on job interviews.


That is just what one department that I used to work in used to do. You knew who the next VP out the door was when they were named VP over special projects.

And sorry to hear about your job loss. I once worked for a small chain of stores that called a company-wide meeting right before Christmas. We all thought we were going to get a bonus, but they told us that they had just sold us to a local competitor, who wanted our locations but didn't need our people, and that we were termed right then & there.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 10:28:21 AM  
Egoy3k:

RTFA, it's illegal to lay people off in Japan. It would be monumentally stupid if there was work for these people to hire new people just so they can keep these others banished to the land of wind and ghosts.

======

Correction: August 21, 2013

A headline on Saturday about efforts by businesses and the government in Japan to loosen rigid restrictions on job terminations for full-time employees misstated, in some editions, the nature of the restrictions. While lifetime employment has long been the norm in Japan and large-scale layoffs remain a social taboo, at least at the largest corporations, dismissals are not "illegal."

===
I did read the farking article.. did you?
 
2013-08-22 10:29:29 AM  

Egoy3k: Nhojwolfe: Geesh a company being held accountable for the employees that helped them get where they are.
We must get rid of this immediatly.

Yeah god forbid Sony stop making magnetic tape in 2013.


Or simply train  the workers you pushed so hard for years to help you profit off those tapes make cd's dvd's etc.

Or you can throw them out for younger workers and rinse and repeat in a few years..
 
2013-08-22 10:30:43 AM  

Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.


The guy gets internet in there. Why WOULD he leave?!?!?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 10:30:57 AM  

pkellmey: The described job is what any server administration job is when properly done.


It is true, which is why pointy-headed bosses hate admins/IT so much.  They are "sitting around with nothing to do," downsized, there is a massive problem that they are needed for and not there because of pointy-headed boss.  Then they hire too many.  The cycle continues...
 
2013-08-22 10:31:59 AM  
dilbert.com
 
2013-08-22 10:32:06 AM  
Go to work everyday and get paid full salary to sit in a room, read, and surf the intrawebs!?!?

beagamecharacter.com
 
2013-08-22 10:32:25 AM  
If I had internet then I would be doing the same as I would at home but getting paid.

They totally underestimate my capacity for sitting in a room on a computer trawling the intertourets
 
2013-08-22 10:34:43 AM  
If the Japanese find out about Fark, Drew is going to get rich.
 
2013-08-22 10:35:24 AM  

Egoy3k: I have a friend who worked in japan and this used to drive him insane.  The most senior employees would do absolutely nothing because there was nobody senior to them to tell them to get to work.  Meanwhile the younger workers are coming in 3 hours early every day.


Sounds like a union job.
 
2013-08-22 10:37:54 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Over the long term, our economy has benefited relative to Europe and Japan's by being more flexible.


True; in Japan it is extremely difficult to get rid of a slacker.  They use various methods of emotional abuse, but some guys just grow a thick skin.  Thing is, if you look at just the sheer amounts of misery both countries can create despite massive per-capita wealth, I'm not sure if either way is better if we all remember for a moment that each "employee" is a person.  Not to mention this article is strictly referring to full-time employees, which Japan is moving away from.  Like America, they're increasingly using contractors in full-time positions.

The implicit assumption in the above is that the economy is more important than the people in it.  I've always regarded "teh economy" as a tool for allocating resources, but I'm kind of alone for it.  For as long as I remember, we've allocated resources to serve the tool.  The finance types have it so backwards they wouldn't look any stranger to me if they commuted to work by pulling their cars.
 
2013-08-22 10:39:30 AM  
If Sony were smart, send those employees to work in a call center. That will suck the life out of them and make them want to quit.

/works in a call center
//got lucky and work for AT&T business solutions
///If I got sent to AT&T wireless collections and billings, I would have quit already
 
2013-08-22 10:40:33 AM  

PunGent: Here's a crazy idea:  a government and/or private sector initiative to retrain obsolete workers with modern skills.

Offer him half-tuition or something; cheaper than paying him to sit in a room...farking waste.

/crazy idea is crazy
//probably socialist, too


THIS^^^  Some woman in the article got a degree in Nursing while sitting in that room?  WHY?  Get a degree in something Sony hires in.

These are factory workers and engineers, you'd think they could find SOMETHING to do to be profitable themselves.  Get someone in there to spitball ideas with their existing skillsets and start a new, more profitable business unit.

/Not how Japan works
 
2013-08-22 10:46:54 AM  
So, write a book, read, and complain on Fark all day?

What's the downside?
 
2013-08-22 10:55:45 AM  
If they really want to get rid of these people then fill up their schedule with meetings. Sitting in project meetings tests even my capability to handle boredom
 
2013-08-22 11:02:39 AM  
I would do unspeakable things to have that job.
 
2013-08-22 11:04:06 AM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


Profits are ALWAYS more important than people. Or moral decency.

It's the American way. Worship your Lord God, the Holy Dollar!
 
2013-08-22 11:07:32 AM  
I work from home. Have for years.

I put in a good, solid, 2-3 hours a day and get paid very well for that time.

After slaving for the man for 25 years, it's nice to have made it to the point where I dictate my schedule.
 
2013-08-22 11:10:04 AM  

The Irresponsible Captain: So, write a book, read, and complain on Fark all day?

What's the downside?


No fapping.
 
2013-08-22 11:14:54 AM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


In America we'd rather pay useless people a little than competent people more.
 
2013-08-22 11:16:40 AM  

lousyskater: I would do unspeakable things to have that job.


Then strangle a hooker. You'll get life in jail most likely. Free room and board, and nothing to do all day.
 
2013-08-22 11:18:55 AM  
As someone who's been laid off a few times, I really have no problem with what Japan is doing.  If I had the choice of sitting in a room doing crosswords and reading Fark - as long as you keep paying me, I'm fine with that.

I got laid off once from a marketing company.  Me and one other guy, in the interest of coming up with new things to sell, where constantly churning out new ideas for the sales/marketing people.  We would demo them new ideas and expect the sales people to go out and get some hits.  In the end, we both got laid off.  All of the sales/marketing people were still there.
How the hell does that make any sense?!  If they were doing their damn jobs, we wouldn't have lost ours.

Once I got laid off from a Twp Gov't job (that never happens).  I spent 4 years taking all of the individual department's Access databases, and reproducing them using a web based interface and a centralized SQL database.  This improved efficiency, for starters, by removing all the ridiculous reduncy they were slogging through before.  Suddenly the Council decided they could no longer justify my salary.  Meanwhile, it was conclusively proven that the work I had done was already saving the Twp over twice my salary just in man hours.  All those people that were wasting all that money stayed.  I got laid off.

So, in my very disgruntled opinion, I think it absolutely sucks that companies of any size are legally allowed to lay people off.
 
2013-08-22 11:23:14 AM  

dmaestaz: If Sony were smart, send those employees to work in a call center. That will suck the life out of them and make them want to quit.

/works in a call center
//got lucky and work for AT&T business solutions
///If I got sent to AT&T wireless collections and billings, I would have quit already



How long from the time you clock out till you start drinking?

/will take to pulling bank heists before I go back to call center work
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 11:25:35 AM  

r1niceboy: rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back

In America we'd rather pay useless people a little than competent people more.


To add on to what you are saying, the only valued job across the board has to do with some sort of "executive" permission or management.  Everyone else is seen with very little value.  It's an attitude that is going to kill us in the end, but the CEOs won't care... they'll have cash in the bank.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-22 11:26:43 AM  

misanthropic1: dmaestaz: If Sony were smart, send those employees to work in a call center. That will suck the life out of them and make them want to quit.

/works in a call center
//got lucky and work for AT&T business solutions
///If I got sent to AT&T wireless collections and billings, I would have quit already


How long from the time you clock out till you start drinking?

/will take to pulling bank heists before I go back to call center work


I'll starve before I work at any call center that the public can call into.  It's not worth the mental anguish.
 
2013-08-22 11:29:48 AM  
My partner and I are really nice guys and we don't really like confrontation.   We tried this for the first several years of our existence when we had made a bad hire.   I can tell you it doesn't work.
 
2013-08-22 11:30:33 AM  
It's starting to get that when I hear or read the words "dynamic economy", all I envision is a massive boom/bust cycle.
 
2013-08-22 11:32:00 AM  

dragonchild: Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.

NutWrench: I'm guessing it's a cultural thing where you're supposed to be deeply ashamed that you're not working your fingers to the bone every second of the day to contribute to the greater glory of the company or something.

The main downside is that you're ostracized by your peers.  If you're not pulling your weight that's more work for the rest of us, and that makes you very unpopular, very quickly.  I know a lot of Farkers don't mind being despised but one other thing to consider is that Japan doesn't use offices or cubicles.  You're in a room full of people who ignore you, and mind you the Japanese often don't make much base pay so they have to work overtime to claw their income back up to middle class (they work long hours but they'll often slow down the pace to stretch out the work -- not very efficient).  So for 13 hours a day you're essentially experiencing a social form of sensory deprivation even as you're surrounded by people who can see everything you do.  If you're not an outright sociopath the experience can get downright excruciating.


You misspelled engineer.
 
2013-08-22 11:43:41 AM  

PunGent: Here's a crazy idea:  a government and/or private sector initiative to retrain obsolete workers with modern skills.

Offer him half-tuition or something; cheaper than paying him to sit in a room...farking waste.

/crazy idea is crazy
//probably socialist, too


Tuition reimbursement for retraining is a fantastic idea, IMO.  I tried to convince my old boss to get into it, but he wouldn't.  I worked for a small publishing company (a very profitable one) that was transitioning from print to digital.  My argument is that it's difficult to find quality people.  I'd rather invest the money in retraining the people we had (who were willing to work all day and go to school at night) than letting them go and going to through the pain of finding quality people with modern skillsets.

We lost so much time, and a ton of ground to our competitors, by listing the jobs, then interviewing and training new people.  Our current products suffered as much as the future products, which wouldn't have happened had we spent a few thousand sending our editors to the local community college to learn better computer skills.  Not to mention we paid out unemployment to the people we let go, and everyone else in the company was completely demoralized.
 
2013-08-22 11:52:50 AM  

ds_4815: Raging Thespian: Sybarite: My god, I would get so much reading done.

Or so you think...

[www.martyafterdark.com image 540x405]

By ONE BLOODY SECOND, you schmuck.


The quick and the redundant.   First and first loser.  Ha.  What a shameful day ds_4815 must be having.  To go from witty to redundant in the span of one second.  If samurai had the internet, I bet what happened to you would be grounds for committing seppuku.
 
2013-08-22 11:54:52 AM  
They should play the song "Someone left the cake out in the rain", sung by William Shatner, over and over all day in the room and ban any ear plugs.  They will take retirement and leave in no time.  Believe me\, I know.
 
2013-08-22 12:00:35 PM  

durbnpoisn: Once I got laid off from a Twp Gov't job (that never happens). I spent 4 years taking all of the individual department's Access databases, and reproducing them using a web based interface and a centralized SQL database. This improved efficiency, for starters, by removing all the ridiculous reduncy they were slogging through before. Suddenly the Council decided they could no longer justify my salary. Meanwhile, it was conclusively proven that the work I had done was already saving the Twp over twice my salary just in man hours. All those people that were wasting all that money stayed. I got laid off.


The way they probably saw it is that you saved them so much money by doing all that work and now they can save even more by eliminating your salary, too.
 
2013-08-22 12:10:57 PM  
Hmm. I think I'd hire out of that room. The ones that use that opportunity to better themselves and seek employment where they can contribute are clearly motivated. The ones that are complacent with the situation are clearly just about doing the minimum to get by.
 
2013-08-22 12:11:03 PM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


The "downside" is that Sony is presuming Japanese cultural norms will kick in and the sidelined employees will be so ashamed at not being productive that they will find other jobs or commit career suicide (quit). Sony's problem is that they are not lying to these employees. The employees are not being told that their work was under standard nor that they were causing non-job related problems in the workplace. Instead, as good workers, they were simply told that they were no longer wanted. Sony violated the social contract that drives Japanese employment. Employees are to have lifelong loyalty to an employer, employers are to have lifelong loyalty to employees. Sony has violated that loyalty. Employees who do their jobs well are still being told to leave, despite having lived up to their side of the obligation.

In an individualist culture, like the USA, the employer is happy and permitted to say "Go fark yourself, you're out." for any reason or no reason at all. In return for this "Routinely impale the employees with red-hot spiked metal implements just because you can" approach to human relations, employees morally owe zero loyalty to employers at any time beyond the barest minimum necessary to hold on to the job. On the other hand, in a communal/shame culture like Japan, the total dogmatic loyalty expected of employees must be paid for by similar levels of loyalty from employers to employees.

The Japanese employers want to have things work both ways. They want a Japanese level of loyalty from employees to employers combined with an American level of disloyalty from employers to employees. Of course, American employers also want this.
 
2013-08-22 12:12:49 PM  

durbnpoisn: So, in my very disgruntled opinion, I think it absolutely sucks that companies of any size are legally allowed to lay people off.


I had to lay off just under 300 people from a Fortune 100 company. The reason? Their sweetheart 5 year tax deal was coming to an end. They were going to have to... GASP... pay normal property taxes.

Many people had worked there 5 years. They were given a total of 10 minutes to get out of the building. This after the week before being assured there were absolutely no plans to close the center.

I had warned people for months this company didn't give a shiat about them. Doesn't make it any better. American companies don't give a shiat about their employees.
 
2013-08-22 12:13:24 PM  

Nhojwolfe: Egoy3k: Nhojwolfe: Geesh a company being held accountable for the employees that helped them get where they are.
We must get rid of this immediatly.

Yeah god forbid Sony stop making magnetic tape in 2013.

Or simply train  the workers you pushed so hard for years to help you profit off those tapes make cd's dvd's etc.

Or you can throw them out for younger workers and rinse and repeat in a few years..


See here's the thing.  It takes less people to make CDs than it does to make magnetic tape. Also consider that there was no switch over day where the whole world immediatly ditched their tapes in favor of CDs and for a few years CDs and tapes were both being manufactured at the same time so there already are skilled workers in those positions.

Honestly it seems like all you labor theorists haven't actually worked in a real job and have no understanding of the fact that as unfortunate as it is sometimes people get laid off.  Life happens
 
2013-08-22 12:15:09 PM  
I would start sex parties in there... I'd be the first one naked
 
2013-08-22 12:16:09 PM  

evilmousse: Hmm. I think I'd hire out of that room. The ones that use that opportunity to better themselves and seek employment where they can contribute are clearly motivated. The ones that are complacent with the situation are clearly just about doing the minimum to get by.


The American view isn't the only view.

You'd also drop those people from the payroll for no good reason, with no notice. As long as the bottom line improved.

The last company I had any loyalty to was Adobe. I routinely told my employees their FAMILY comes first, not the company. Your approach confirms that.
 
2013-08-22 12:16:16 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: FTA :

"Economists say bringing flexibility to the labor market in Japan would help struggling companies streamline bloated work forces to better compete in the global economy. Fewer restrictions on layoffs could make it easier for Sony to leave loss-ridden traditional businesses and concentrate resources on more innovative, promising ones."

"Labor practices in Japan contrast sharply with those in the United States, where companies are quick to lay off workers when demand slows or a product becomes obsolete. It is cruel to the worker, but it usually gives the overall economy agility. Some economists attribute the lack of a dynamic economy in Western Europe to labor laws similar to Japan's that restrict layoffs."

These are key points. Over the long term, our economy has benefited relative to Europe and Japan's by being more flexible. Europeans and Japanese are much more reluctant to hire new people when demand increases because it is so much more difficult to let them go when it becomes necessary.

Paying people to do nothing or to do something that is worth less than you are paying them is detrimental to the economy.


I agree, but I also find the moralistic bullshiat that goes with it to be beyond stupid. Why not be honest about this? Right now, the tired old refrain is that American workers are trash because they aren't "loyal" to employers. Loyalty in a free society is a two-way street. If employers owe employees zero loyalty, then employees owe employers zero loyalty. It's that simple. Do what is the bare minimum to keep your job and no more--that is all the moral obligation that exists for an employee in the dog-eat-dog world of a "nimble" economy. If you want promotion, work better--but remember that it's all just for your benefit. Any benefit that accrues to the employer is merely incidental to your ascension. Anything else is childish naivete.
 
2013-08-22 12:16:19 PM  
Thats....a lot like my current job
 
2013-08-22 12:17:13 PM  

durbnpoisn: Me and one other guy, in the interest of coming up with new things to sell, where constantly churning out new ideas for the sales/marketing people.  We would demo them new ideas and expect the sales people to go out and get some hits.  In the end, we both got laid off.

This improved efficiency, for starters, by removing all the ridiculous reduncy they were slogging through before.  Suddenly the Council decided they could no longer justify my salary.


You stepped on management's toes, in other words.
 
2013-08-22 12:18:12 PM  
can i telecommute???
 
2013-08-22 12:20:08 PM  

Egoy3k: Honestly it seems like all you labor theorists haven't actually worked in a real job and have no understanding of the fact that as unfortunate as it is sometimes people get laid off. Life happens


More often than not, the layoff has ZERO to do with how well the person was doing their job. Saying "hey, shiat happens!" shows the American mentality towards workers as sub-human. Easily tossed aside.

But boy oh boy, leave a job with no notice, and what a horrible person you are, leaving the company stuck like that!

It's amazing how well corporate America has brainwashed so many. And you hear the "older" generation biatching about how Gen X'ers don't have the "work ethic" anymore. That's because they have seen the crap stain that is "corporate honesty", and don't fall for the "be loyal to your company" bullshiat.
 
2013-08-22 12:20:27 PM  
ts1.mm.bing.net
Matchstick Boats?
 
2013-08-22 12:22:20 PM  

mediablitz: durbnpoisn: So, in my very disgruntled opinion, I think it absolutely sucks that companies of any size are legally allowed to lay people off.

I had to lay off just under 300 people from a Fortune 100 company. The reason? Their sweetheart 5 year tax deal was coming to an end. They were going to have to... GASP... pay normal property taxes.

Many people had worked there 5 years. They were given a total of 10 minutes to get out of the building. This after the week before being assured there were absolutely no plans to close the center.

I had warned people for months this company didn't give a shiat about them. Doesn't make it any better. American companies don't give a shiat about their employees.


Stop being a gigantic pussy and quit. Just because they haven't come for you yet they will someday, better it is on your own terms. Or better still get yourself blackmail material against some C class employee or board members. (If you are a sysadmin you don't even have to find the material, just say you found some)
 
2013-08-22 12:23:08 PM  
Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.
 
2013-08-22 12:23:51 PM  

RembrandtQEinstein: Thats....a lot like my current job


Same here. I'm currently prepping lunch while listening to Alice in Chains and Farking. Getting paid to do it. I have valuable skills that don't require I work 8 hour days, and by god, I don't.
 
2013-08-22 12:25:28 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.


Wow, I've never worked for a large corporation that offered anywhere near that much severance. Good for them.
 
2013-08-22 12:26:03 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.


In a society where it is VERY difficult to get hired for another job if you "quit", no it isn't.
 
2013-08-22 12:27:07 PM  

pkellmey: Sin_City_Superhero: Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.

Wow, I've never worked for a large corporation that offered anywhere near that much severance. Good for them.


I have a strong suspicion that in an American Sony office, nothing of the sort would be offered.  In fact, you'd probably be lucky to be an actual Sony employee, rather than a contract or otherwise temporary worker.
 
2013-08-22 12:33:05 PM  

misanthropic1: dmaestaz: If Sony were smart, send those employees to work in a call center. That will suck the life out of them and make them want to quit.

/works in a call center
//got lucky and work for AT&T business solutions
///If I got sent to AT&T wireless collections and billings, I would have quit already


How long from the time you clock out till you start drinking?

/will take to pulling bank heists before I go back to call center work


Wait, you're supposed to clock out before you start drinking? I just keep my booze in a water bottle and stay sauced all day! It also helps to play drinking games during boring meetings at least until I fall out of my chair and puke on the conference room table.
 
2013-08-22 12:34:25 PM  
Somebody introduce these poor schmucks to FARK, STAT.
 
2013-08-22 12:37:07 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: These are key points. Over the long term, our economy has benefited relative to Europe and Japan's by being more flexible. Europeans and Japanese are much more reluctant to hire new people when demand increases because it is so much more difficult to let them go when it becomes necessary.

Paying people to do nothing or to do something that is worth less than you are paying them is detrimental to the economy.


I thought that a gigantic part of the problem with the current "recovery" was that companies are refusing to hire, despite the relatively lenient American labor laws. Company owners and managers would rather extract a larger profit than grow the company when demand soars, as they figure they can extract 60 hour work weeks from the salaried and scared while they have everyone do three peoples' jobs until the mental breakdown.

This attitude has caused turnaround to go through the roof this year at the company I'm at now. They're probably still mystified as to why they can't keep full-timers and have to call in consultants.
 
2013-08-22 12:37:37 PM  

mediablitz: evilmousse: Hmm. I think I'd hire out of that room. The ones that use that opportunity to better themselves and seek employment where they can contribute are clearly motivated. The ones that are complacent with the situation are clearly just about doing the minimum to get by.

The American view isn't the only view.

You'd also drop those people from the payroll for no good reason, with no notice. As long as the bottom line improved.

The last company I had any loyalty to was Adobe. I routinely told my employees their FAMILY comes first, not the company. Your approach confirms that.


What?

What is the american view and how does it relate to my comment?

Who are the people I'd drop for no good reason and no notice, and what did I say that lead you to that very inaccurate attempt at reading my mind?

Absolutely family should come first, hell even in a family business.

I think you misunderstood my motivations as profit oriented. I just want to leave this world feeling like I've given more than I've taken. While comfortable, a life paid to do nothing would be unsatisfying.
 
2013-08-22 12:37:38 PM  

Silly_Sot: Anything else is childish naivete.


I once had a worker complain to me about a decision I made, "All this company cares about is money!"  My response was, "Well yeah. Why do you come to work?"
 
2013-08-22 12:38:22 PM  
www.haro-online.com

Ashamed it took this long for a "Fear and Trembling" reference.  I'll reprint that report, again.
 
2013-08-22 12:40:41 PM  

mediablitz: Egoy3k: Honestly it seems like all you labor theorists haven't actually worked in a real job and have no understanding of the fact that as unfortunate as it is sometimes people get laid off. Life happens

More often than not, the layoff has ZERO to do with how well the person was doing their job. Saying "hey, shiat happens!" shows the American mentality towards workers as sub-human. Easily tossed aside.

But boy oh boy, leave a job with no notice, and what a horrible person you are, leaving the company stuck like that!

It's amazing how well corporate America has brainwashed so many. And you hear the "older" generation biatching about how Gen X'ers don't have the "work ethic" anymore. That's because they have seen the crap stain that is "corporate honesty", and don't fall for the "be loyal to your company" bullshiat.


Yeah that's why it's called a layoff. If it was a problem with the employee then it would be called getting fired.  What greater good are you looking for here exactly? Companies going out of business and all of their employees losing their jobs isn't exactly a bright utopian future.
 
2013-08-22 12:41:05 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.


4 1/2 years of Severance

or

"Work" till retirement at full pay, and be a "lifer"
 
2013-08-22 12:49:07 PM  
Alienzushi:

/ headhunter in Japan & APAC
// living in Tokyo for over 12 yrs
/// advise gaijin CEOs about the labor laws


Do you mind if I contact you through your posted info or LinkedIn?

I'm in IT/Marketing and looking to relocate (family is in Japan).
 
2013-08-22 12:52:29 PM  

evilmousse


I think you misunderstood my motivations as profit oriented. I just want to leave this world feeling like I've given more than I've taken. While comfortable, a life paid to do nothing would be unsatisfying.


It would, if you judged your worth only by what you do while on the clock. The other 16 hours of the day are yours to go do something better.


Frankly I wouldn't enjoy it either.
 
2013-08-22 12:56:46 PM  

Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.



You would think it would be all upside but I'm here to let you all know that it's really not. In my early 20s I got a job through an agency at St. Elizabeth's doing some filing. It was a 6 month assignment because there was an office who hadn't filed shiat in like 5 years and they assumed it would take a significant amount of time for someone to put it in all order. I went in and had everything filed by lunch on my third day. On the fourth day, I put together a little color coded system to help them identify what year a file was from. They were so impressed that instead of trying to send me bak to the agency they kept me on as a file room clerk to basically retreive files when they needed them. Difficulty: Nobody ever needed a file.

The file room was a windowless...file room. It was just what you'd expect it to look like. It wasn't just in the basement, but it was also down a hall and around another corner from the office where everyone else worked.

From the beginning of my second week until the end of the assignment, I had a routine. I would come in around 9ish, turn on sportstalk radio and read the Washington Post online...Metro section, Sports section, and Front page, in that order. Then, I would surf the web for...whatever (except porn). I would literally sit at the computer, think of a topic, and just search eveything related to it. Dog fights. Videos of people falling down. The Civil War. UFOs. That's actually how I found FARK.  I would do this until 11:35, when I would take my lunch. Leaving at 11:35 allowed me to eat a sandwich, smoke a blunt in the car, and get back in time for the start of the Jim Rome Show at noon. Rome and more internet would get me to 3pm. 3 - 5 was always a bit rocky because I hated the guy who hosted the sportstalk show i that spot on the station I listened too. I'd write stories. Plan finances and vacations. Read books that I brought from home. It was all good...for a while.

I'd say it really started to become a problem about two months in. I was getting restless. God forbid Jim Rome had a guest host because I'd be bored out of my mind. I had very limited interaction with anyone for a majority of the day. I'd be happy as shiat to hear someone coming down the hall just so that I could get a few minutes of conversation, and I'm one of the most introverted people I know. I was going stir crazy. In late February, when I had about a month and a half left on the assignment, I started calling my friend's brother (who owns a landscaping company) to see when they were going to complete the winter break and get back to work. I was so bored, I would rather have done hard, manual labor than sit in that room staring at the computer. It seems weird, but that is not a dream job.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:26 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: evilmousse

I think you misunderstood my motivations as profit oriented. I just want to leave this world feeling like I've given more than I've taken. While comfortable, a life paid to do nothing would be unsatisfying.


It would, if you judged your worth only by what you do while on the clock. The other 16 hours of the day are yours to go do something better.


Frankly I wouldn't enjoy it either.


No, I don't think that's true "only by what you do on the clock." Even if I drew the greatest personal satisfaction from after-work activities, I'd look at being paid to do nothing as a waste, when there are opportunities to do better.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't look the gift horse in the mouth: better opportunities take time and effort to find. I'd gladly take the pay while doing the same studying and jobsearching I'd have to do if let go.
 
2013-08-22 01:20:53 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Carn: Holy fark!  They let you sit there and surf all day?  You still get paid?  Do they not let you pee or something?  I'm not seeing the downside here.


You would think it would be all upside but I'm here to let you all know that it's really not. In my early 20s I got a job through an agency at St. Elizabeth's doing some filing. It was a 6 month assignment because there was an office who hadn't filed shiat in like 5 years and they assumed it would take a significant amount of time for someone to put it in all order. I went in and had everything filed by lunch on my third day. On the fourth day, I put together a little color coded system to help them identify what year a file was from. They were so impressed that instead of trying to send me bak to the agency they kept me on as a file room clerk to basically retreive files when they needed them. Difficulty: Nobody ever needed a file.

The file room was a windowless...file room. It was just what you'd expect it to look like. It wasn't just in the basement, but it was also down a hall and around another corner from the office where everyone else worked.

From the beginning of my second week until the end of the assignment, I had a routine. I would come in around 9ish, turn on sportstalk radio and read the Washington Post online...Metro section, Sports section, and Front page, in that order. Then, I would surf the web for...whatever (except porn). I would literally sit at the computer, think of a topic, and just search eveything related to it. Dog fights. Videos of people falling down. The Civil War. UFOs. That's actually how I found FARK.  I would do this until 11:35, when I would take my lunch. Leaving at 11:35 allowed me to eat a sandwich, smoke a blunt in the car, and get back in time for the start of the Jim Rome Show at noon. Rome and more internet would get me to 3pm. 3 - 5 was always a bit rocky because I hated the guy who hosted the sportstalk show i that spot on the station I listened too. I'd write stories ...


Ok, I can see it.  What if it was a telecommute?!
 
2013-08-22 01:26:15 PM  
Are they untrainable for anything else? Even cleaning up the place, sorting files? Seems like a complete waste of manpower. I know a guy whose job it is just to scan old Air Force records from the lat 40's on up. He will bedoing that for the rest of his life probably.

They should just do what my job does, give the person the shiat work and hope they quit or screw up so they can be fired. A boss I had a few years ago tried to do that to me after I "stabbed him in the back". All I did was show the staff some of the policies that they can use to get around him when he was being a massive dick. He gave me the shiat work and I did it with a smile on my face and thats all I did the shiat work because it was my job nothing else, I no longer killed myself trying to make sure the report was clean at the end of the night or anything else because he said it was no longer my job that place went down the shiatter quick. He dragged me into the office and we had a nice convo:

Devil: Just keep doing what youre doing and you will get fired!
Groppet: What am I doing?
Devil: You know what you are doing, keep doing it and you will be fired!
Groppet: I'm sorry but am I not doing my job correct have their been complaints about my work. As far as I know and have been trained everything is correct.
Devil: You know what you are doing.
Groppet: Sir I am only doing the job you assigned me to and if I am not doing it correctly you should inform me of improvments I can make. (holding back the laughter as he got redder and redder)
Devil: (Very Angry) You know you are setting a bad example and I should fire you for that.
(meanwhile all his buddies he hired sit around doing nothing all day)
Groppet: Sir you havent been clear with me about what you expect maybe we should bring your boss and the client in to discuss what is expected of me.
Devil: Get out!

I went outside and laughed after that he was transfered a few months after that and left mysteriously after that.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:27 PM  
potsofclay.files.wordpress.com
It took this long?
 
2013-08-22 01:52:09 PM  
Employee unions want lifetime employment?

Sounds good.

Just pair up one of these guys with a union peer. They can share the job and the salary.

No problem.
 
2013-08-22 02:04:54 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: You would think it would be all upside but I'm here to let you all know that it's really not. In my early 20s I got a job through an agency at St. Elizabeth's doing some filing. It was a 6 month assignment because there was an office who hadn't filed shiat in like 5 years and they assumed it would take a significant amount of time for someone to put it in all order. I went in and had everything filed by lunch on my third day. On the fourth day, I put together a little color coded system to help them identify what year a file was from. They were so impressed that instead of trying to send me bak to the agency they kept me on as a file room clerk to basically retreive files when they needed them. Difficulty: Nobody ever needed a file.


This is pretty much my job.  I can do pretty much everything they want me to do in like 25% of the time they expect it to be completed.
 
2013-08-22 02:12:18 PM  

rnatalie: My company just outright fired me as the highest paid, most senior employee (having worked there for 23 years).   Essentially I got a phone call while I was on vacation telling me not to come back


At least you have your pension.

/sarcasm
 
2013-08-22 02:50:58 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: I was so bored, I would rather have done hard, manual labor than sit in that room staring at the computer. It seems weird, but that is not a dream job.


See, THAT would've been my dream job because I'm far more of a content creator than a content consumer.  I'd get an awful lot of writing and design done in that room.  To each one's own, I guess.

To reiterate what I said earlier, the problem with slacking off in Japan is that you do it in plain sight and in close proximity to a bunch of people who quietly despise you.  If you have a thick skin you can last a few days, but anyone with a shred of empathy should eventually go insane.
 
2013-08-22 03:28:49 PM  

meat0918: pkellmey: Sin_City_Superhero: Sony also said that it offered workers early retirement packages that are generous by American standards: in 2010, it promised severance payments equivalent to as much as 54 months of pay.

4 1/2 years of severance pay. That does seem like a pretty generous offer, to me.

Wow, I've never worked for a large corporation that offered anywhere near that much severance. Good for them.

I have a strong suspicion that in an American Sony office, nothing of the sort would be offered.  In fact, you'd probably be lucky to be an actual Sony employee, rather than a contract or otherwise temporary worker.


I was an actually Sony employee (Sony Online Entertainment).  I worked there two separate times, once for 6 years, then 3 years later for 14 months.  The second stint i was laid off.  3 months severance and 3 months health benefits.  It was pretty good considering I was only back on for 14 months.
 
2013-08-22 03:56:41 PM  

rattchett: The quick and the redundant.   First and first loser.  Ha.  What a shameful day ds_4815 must be having.  To go from witty to redundant in the span of one second.  If samurai had the internet, I bet what happened to you would be grounds for committing seppuku.


But there was TIME now!
 
2013-08-22 04:13:44 PM  
If they were smart they'd start taking pages from the Koreans and start farming currencies in games. Get paid while getting paid.
 
2013-08-22 05:51:04 PM  
I do very little for long stretches. It is excruciating. If I was paid less I'd quit - but isn't how things go for most jobs? I get paid well because it sucks.
 
2013-08-23 04:02:31 AM  

dragonchild: The main downside is that you're ostracized by your peers. If you're not pulling your weight that's more work for the rest of us, and that makes you very unpopular, very quickly. I know a lot of Farkers don't mind being despised but one other thing to consider is that Japan doesn't use offices or cubicles. You're in a room full of people who ignore you, and mind you the Japanese often don't make much base pay so they have to work overtime to claw their income back up to middle class (they work long hours but they'll often slow down the pace to stretch out the work -- not very efficient). So for 13 hours a day you're essentially experiencing a social form of sensory deprivation even as you're surrounded by people who can see everything you do. If you're not an outright sociopath the experience can get downright excruciating.


Evidently in America, pride in one's work is a concept that has been written out of the equation.  (Both management and labor are to blame.)
 
2013-08-23 10:18:15 AM  
Two days a week I work in a nice office and have about 30 minutes of work to do each day. The rest of the time I am free to surf the web, read the paper, talk walks, listen to the radio, whatever I want. When I come home on those two days I am exhausted and usually end up eating dinner and collapsing in bed. Doing that all week would be tough, two days is all I can manage.

/Not complaining
 
2013-08-23 11:36:23 AM  
I sense an opportunity - start a Japanese language version of FARK for the  "madogiwa zoku"  - Problem Solved.
 
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