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(Slate)   "Why do Americans hate the best decade in history?" Wait, this isn't an article about the eighties   (slate.com) divider line 276
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13625 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 9:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 11:33:44 PM  
 
2013-08-21 11:36:22 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: NAFTA isn't the demon of job outsourcing.

Sure. Everyone can make a living wage working at Starbucks or McDonalds!

You're farking delusional.

Clinton set the destruction of America's middle class into motion and it only picked up steam from there on.
.


We're not outsourcing many of our jobs to Mexico.  China is the issue, and that really opened up under Bush.
 
2013-08-21 11:39:28 PM  

Lawnchair: Once cheap Texas crude starting dwindling around 1970, we, for the first time, had to trade. Globalization starts from that point.


You have to remember that the key lie of the run up to the free trade agreements was that they would create more markets for us, so there would be many more manufacturing jobs inside America, not less.

Instead, the obscenely wealthy have used those agreements to move manufacturing to wherever they can pay the lowest wage and ignore environmental regulations.

Heck, now they want to move the plants out of China because wages there have gotten too high and the pollution has reached such internationally embarrassing levels that those on top have been forced to at least look like they have started doing something about it..
 
2013-08-21 11:39:53 PM  

BullBearMS: djkutch: Could you eviscerate the Bush Administration for the Patriot Act? XXXOOO

It's been done.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 260x390]


Now that we've determined both sides are bad, who should we vote for, my friend?
 
2013-08-21 11:40:43 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The 90s were good times.  I guess the old racists don't care for them because they marked when hip-hop/rap culture really became mainstream, but there was plenty of good stuff going on.  History will remember Bill Clinton has one of our best Presidents ever.


So it's racist to hate discordant, brain-hating, misogynist music? That's news to me.

(For the record, I love disco and funk. Okay, it wasn't the best music in the world but at least it was well-produced and required actual talent to sing...)
 
2013-08-21 11:45:55 PM  

yourmomlovestetris: TuteTibiImperes: The 90s were good times.  I guess the old racists don't care for them because they marked when hip-hop/rap culture really became mainstream, but there was plenty of good stuff going on.  History will remember Bill Clinton has one of our best Presidents ever.

So it's racist to hate discordant, brain-hating, misogynist music? That's news to me.

(For the record, I love disco and funk. Okay, it wasn't the best music in the world but at least it was well-produced and required actual talent to sing...)


I may have phrased it badly, it's not racist to dislike rap music, it's not even racist to dislike the rap/hip-hop culture that came with it, it is racist to resent the idea that black people were finally becoming cultural icons.
 
das
2013-08-21 11:48:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: NAFTA isn't the demon of job outsourcing.

Sure. Everyone can make a living wage working at Starbucks or McDonalds!

You're farking delusional.

Clinton set the destruction of America's middle class into motion and it only picked up steam from there on.
.

We're not outsourcing many of our jobs to Mexico.  China is the issue, and that really opened up under Bush.


GATT???

Clinton signed it!!!
 
2013-08-21 11:49:53 PM  

Flacman: [www.isteroids.com image 326x400]


I just discovered I have a card of his that is fetching $75 on ebay. Even if I get half that I'd be pleased.
 
2013-08-21 11:52:44 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: NAFTA isn't the demon of job outsourcing.

Sure. Everyone can make a living wage working at Starbucks or McDonalds!

You're farking delusional.

Clinton set the destruction of America's middle class into motion and it only picked up steam from there on.
.

We're not outsourcing many of our jobs to Mexico.  China is the issue, and that really opened up under Bush.


don't forget NAFTA also dumped an obscene amount of cheap american corn into a country of very small farmers who couldn't compete

que malo
 
2013-08-21 11:52:53 PM  
 
2013-08-21 11:55:06 PM  

djkutch: Now that we've determined both sides are bad, who should we vote for, my friend?


I'm for either Warren/Wyden or Wyden/Warren.
 
2013-08-21 11:58:27 PM  

yourmomlovestetris: I love disco and funk.


Funk was incredibly inventive and fun. Then again, I still love old school Motown.
 
2013-08-21 11:59:27 PM  

BullBearMS: yourmomlovestetris: I love disco and funk.

Funk was incredibly inventive and fun. Then again, I still love old school Motown.


who don't love the funk?

yeah....I like disco

yes, I'm straight. why?
 
2013-08-22 12:04:27 AM  

PillsHere: scottydoesntknow: TuteTibiImperes: Mugato: The 90s were awesome. I made a shiatload of money as a teenage doing fark all in programming. Gothic girls were plentiful, rock wasn't dead yet. The biggest problem we had as a nation was the President getting a blowjob.

scottydoesntknow: Worst thing about the '90s: The fashions

I don't even remember the 90s having fashions, besides the aforementioned gothic trend. Other than that, the 90s were pretty nondescript fashion-wise.

Grunge, acid washed jeans, day-glo, odd geometric patterns, gaudy jewelry, etc.

Don't forget shoulder pads.

Not sure if you guys are being serious or not, but none of the stuff in bold was 90's fashion.  Sure maybe in the early 90's there were still people wearing it, but that was carry over from the 80's which has got to be the ugliest decade for hair and fashion.

The 90's was mostly grunge (flannel shirts, ripped jeans, band t-shirts), hip hop (baggy pants, over-sized sports jerseys, large puffy coats), raver gear (phat pants, tight t-shirts/baby t's, over-sized sweaters), punk/ska (plaid pants, pleather, ripped stuff, safety pins, chains - I know some of it was carryover from the late 70's), goth gear (we all know what this looks like), bell-bottoms came back into style thankfully after the 80's were all about tight/tapered jeans, admittedly the very early 90's had tacky hammer pants but that was more of a carry over from the 80's.  These are the "iconic" fashion from the 90's.  This is not to argue that the fashion was good, but it was better than the 80's.  Also most of it was fairly normal/non-descript outside of what was listed.


Actually the goth thing started in the 80s, too. I remember going to a gay club called The City here in Portland many times in the late 80s that had a goth section called The Hollyrock Room. I wasn't a goth or gay but they had the best drugs.
 
2013-08-22 12:05:07 AM  
At a personal level I would pick the 80's. Overall, excluding things that happened in my life that really, really sucked I would pick the 90's.
 
2013-08-22 12:10:01 AM  

fusillade762: Actually the goth thing started in the 80s, too


I would say the 70's. The Rocky Horror Picture Show had a bit of Goth type costuming and makeup going on in it. When people started doing the whole go to the movie dressed as a character thing is when I think that it started as a recognized "Style". It wasn't called "Goth" back then though, that was a 90's thing.
 
2013-08-22 12:10:51 AM  

Omahawg: don't forget NAFTA also dumped an obscene amount of cheap american corn into a country of very small farmers who couldn't compete


I would have to say that the changeover from family farming to huge corporate farming conglomerates has been bad for us as a nation, and for them.

Wouldn't it be nice to cut off all farming subsidies that could fall under the banner of corporate welfare?
 
2013-08-22 12:22:06 AM  

yourmomlovestetris: So it's racist to hate discordant, brain-hating, misogynist music?


You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up
/The 90s was hip hop's golden age, a song like that would never been played on an "urban" radio station now.
 
2013-08-22 12:24:06 AM  

Radioactive Ass: fusillade762: Actually the goth thing started in the 80s, too

I would say the 70's. The Rocky Horror Picture Show had a bit of Goth type costuming and makeup going on in it. When people started doing the whole go to the movie dressed as a character thing is when I think that it started as a recognized "Style". It wasn't called "Goth" back then though, that was a 90's thing.


I know it's gauche to quote Wikipedia here, but I'm doing it anyway

The Goth subculture is a contemporary subculture found in many countries. It began in England during the early 1980s in the Gothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre.

And I distinctly recall them calling themselves "goth" back in the late 80s. Hell, one dealer I knew went by the name "Lestat".
 
2013-08-22 12:24:18 AM  

lewismarktwo: Hey, guess what?  If you're actually a multimillionaire you can retire right now today.


with 500k you could retire on the beach in Costa Rica.
 
2013-08-22 12:33:33 AM  
images.wikia.com
 
2013-08-22 12:33:52 AM  

Devo: Grunge Music
Ska
Electronic Raves
Even Big Band music had a go at in the 90s.
vs
Hair Bands.


Everything you listed happened in the eighties. Except for your login, "Devo" (that was the seventies.)
 
2013-08-22 12:37:47 AM  

fusillade762: I know it's gauche to quote Wikipedia here, but I'm doing it anyway

The Goth subculture is a contemporary subculture found in many countries. It began in England during the early 1980s in the Gothic rock scene, an offshoot of the post-punk genre.

And I distinctly recall them calling themselves "goth" back in the late 80s. Hell, one dealer I knew went by the name "Lestat".


I was talking more about the style than the sub-culture. The first time I saw a "Goth" I thought Rocky Horror because of the similarities. That's all that I meant by what I said.
 
2013-08-22 12:58:08 AM  
The only thing that sucked about the 90s were the comic books.  Terrible art and writing (the writing is still terrible, but the art has now gotten better).

Computers were slow and so unreliable you had to be a bit of a computer whiz just to keep them working properly.  I kinda liked that because it motivated me to learn.
 
2013-08-22 12:59:22 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: [images.wikia.com image 500x457]


Oh yeah?

www.wackypackages.org
 
2013-08-22 01:00:53 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: No generation ever before the 90s embraced black music. Ever. Dumbass.


Jazz, Blues and 50's and 60's style Rock and Roll. Hard rock, not so much outside of Hendrix (who was a huge influence on all types of rock guitarists from then on) but Disco definitely sprung from a blending of Motown and Rock and led to the 80's genre of dance music from Madonna to Nu Shuz. Rap is crap and really shouldn't be called music so much as maybe rhyming with a beat (which is the only thing that it shares with popular music, talking is not singing) but Hip Hop has its roots in 80's dance and rock styles if for no other reason than that's where most of the samples came from.

You clearly have no clue at all as to how music has evolved over the last 100 or so years. "Black" music didn't simply go from hymns sung in the cotton fields to rap in one day. It was a long process that probably has had more influence than any other one in popular music history.
 
2013-08-22 01:03:38 AM  
Take the '90s and shove them up your balls.
 
2013-08-22 01:10:38 AM  

vygramul: AliceBToklasLives: vygramul: '80s, you say?

[userserve-ak.last.fm image 500x500]

1968 - Saucerful of Secrets

1973 - Dark Side of the Moon
1977 - Animals
1979 - The Wall

1987 - A Momentary Lapse of Reason

/what was that about the 80s?

Whoops - that was the movie that hit the '80s. Then again, The Final Cut was in the '80s.

But then there was:

The Clash: London Calling
U2: The Joshua Tree
The Police: Synchronicity
AC/DC: Back in Black



userserve-ak.last.fm

/first album I ever owned. Remember just sitting in my room, playing it over and over, just mesmerized.
 
2013-08-22 01:12:01 AM  

Radioactive Ass: Hip Hop has its roots in 80's dance and rock styles if for no other reason than that's where most of the samples came from.


Rock is probably the smallest influence on rap (outside of country), which is why rock rap never really worked (though Run DMC and the Beastie Boys figured it out). I also don't get how it can have roots in 80s dance, when it was invented in the late 70s. Hip hop comes from funk, disco, electronic music, R&B, dub, reggae, blues, jazz, and soul.

/not surprised someone that hates rap doesn't know anything about it.
 
2013-08-22 01:13:04 AM  

TheDumbBlonde: Old douchebags have been making black musicians rich for a century.


I take back what I said.
 
2013-08-22 01:16:19 AM  

fusillade762: Triumph: Who are the maniacs that want to go back to the 40s?

I'm more concerned by the people who want to go back to the 1900s.


I would love to.

Take my great great grandfather to the patent office with a handful of sketches, return to home-time to the capital city of SkroobLandia.
 
2013-08-22 01:17:51 AM  

LemSkroob: Take my great great grandfather to the patent office with a handful of sketches, return to home-time to the capital city of SkroobLandia.


Plastics.
 
2013-08-22 01:40:41 AM  
90's too recent.
 
2013-08-22 01:42:22 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: The 00s and 10s may be farked too--I would say the quality is starting to get somewhere, but it's still kind of stuck in a plasticky tech stage that exhibits elegance the 90s lacked, but still needs to mature some more. The late 10s and early 20s might be huge.


I'll say one thing about Gen X: we took the old fashioned notion of cultural imperialism and turned it on America.  The last 20 years have seen a relentless assault on creativity in the name of nostalgia.  It's as if we saw the explosion of creativity in the 80's and said, "Well, that's that, I guess we'll just remake all of this and shove it down our kids' throats".
 
2013-08-22 01:51:57 AM  

TheJoe03: Rock is probably the smallest influence on rap (outside of country), which is why rock rap never really worked (though Run DMC and the Beastie Boys figured it out). I also don't get how it can have roots in 80s dance, when it was invented in the late 70s. Hip hop comes from funk, disco, electronic music, R&B, dub, reggae, blues, jazz, and soul.

/not surprised someone that hates rap doesn't know anything about it.


Popular rap. MTV rap. Whatever. The very first rap that hit mainstream that I know of was Blondie's Rapture (yes the late 70's and I was wrong to put it later) but it never really popped up again as a major style until at least the mid to late 80's outside of the greater New York City area and it sampled the popular music of the time by and large for its beat.. My tastes have evolved over the years but I've never considered rap to be music. A form of art? Sure. Music? No. The musical portion of it is usually copied or a close derivative of actual music created by actual musicians.

My dislike of rap isn't hate, it's because it has no musical qualities to it other than (THUMP, THUMP, THUMP) while someone talks in a rhyme that matches the beat. I'm also not a fan of 70's style hard punk for similar reasons. Shouting into a mike while beating your hands bloody banging at a guitar is not music, it's noise.
 
2013-08-22 01:59:00 AM  

Radioactive Ass: TheJoe03: Rock is probably the smallest influence on rap (outside of country), which is why rock rap never really worked (though Run DMC and the Beastie Boys figured it out). I also don't get how it can have roots in 80s dance, when it was invented in the late 70s. Hip hop comes from funk, disco, electronic music, R&B, dub, reggae, blues, jazz, and soul.

/not surprised someone that hates rap doesn't know anything about it.

Popular rap. MTV rap. Whatever. The very first rap that hit mainstream that I know of was Blondie's Rapture (yes the late 70's and I was wrong to put it later) but it never really popped up again as a major style until at least the mid to late 80's outside of the greater New York City area and it sampled the popular music of the time by and large for its beat.. My tastes have evolved over the years but I've never considered rap to be music. A form of art? Sure. Music? No. The musical portion of it is usually copied or a close derivative of actual music created by actual musicians.

My dislike of rap isn't hate, it's because it has no musical qualities to it other than (THUMP, THUMP, THUMP) while someone talks in a rhyme that matches the beat. I'm also not a fan of 70's style hard punk for similar reasons. Shouting into a mike while beating your hands bloody banging at a guitar is not music, it's noise.


There's some rap that's pretty musical.

Try Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, or Deltron 3030 for a start.
 
2013-08-22 02:06:49 AM  

Radioactive Ass: A form of art? Sure. Music? No.


I'll never get what that even means. So no electronic music is music either since they don't tend to use "real instruments"? Also, when did singing become the definition of music? Most rappers don't even scream, it's spoken word with a rhythmic cadence (hip hop people call it flow).

/The whole it ain't music, it's noise is such a hacky argument. That's what people said about rock n roll, and it was equally ignorant then. Rap is music, so is punk, so is metal, etc etc. Music shouldn't be put in such a box, or we'd still be stuck with crooners.
 
2013-08-22 02:08:01 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: There's some rap that's pretty musical.


There are always exceptions to the rule. I only watched the first one but there was something that could be called singing in the chorus. That's not the type of rap that I was talking about.
 
2013-08-22 02:08:58 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: The 90s were good times.  I guess the old racists don't care for them because they marked when hip-hop/rap culture really became mainstream, but there was plenty of good stuff going on.  History will remember Bill Clinton has one of our best Presidents ever.


Ha, he'll be remembered as one of the best politicians ever. I wouldn't say that's an amazing thing to be remembered for.

But I guess we'll get that same crap we still get with Kennedy. 3 years in office, didn't get much done, other than almost starting WW3, and then somehow avoiding it.
 
2013-08-22 02:14:12 AM  

Radioactive Ass: That's not the type of rap that I was talking about.


That's the type of rap I listen to, you're basing your opinions on the worst in the genre I guess. In the hip hop community, a group like Jurassic 5 would be considered "real hip hop". I don't judge rock based on Nickelback or Poison. If you want to say pop rap is garbage, you'd get no complaints from me.
 
2013-08-22 02:15:24 AM  

TheJoe03: I'll never get what that even means. So no electronic music is music either since they don't tend to use "real instruments"? Also, when did singing become the definition of music? Most rappers don't even scream, it's spoken word with a rhythmic cadence (hip hop people call it flow).

/The whole it ain't music, it's noise is such a hacky argument. That's what people said about rock n roll, and it was equally ignorant then. Rap is music, so is punk, so is metal, etc etc. Music shouldn't be put in such a box, or we'd still be stuck with crooners.


A form of art meaning that there is some skill involved. Instruments can be anything (see stomp). If it's vocal than singing is kind of a requirement, otherwise it's called talking and what you're describing is also called a poem or a limerick.

/I think that noise is the lack of, as you put it above, flow. A poem is not noise and I didn't call rap noise. I said that I don't consider it (rapping) music.
 
2013-08-22 02:18:56 AM  

Radioactive Ass: I said that I don't consider it (rapping) music.


Still don't get why, but you're free to have your opinions.
 
2013-08-22 02:19:01 AM  

TheJoe03: Radioactive Ass: That's not the type of rap that I was talking about.

That's the type of rap I listen to, you're basing your opinions on the worst in the genre I guess. In the hip hop community, a group like Jurassic 5 would be considered "real hip hop". I don't judge rock based on Nickelback or Poison. If you want to say pop rap is garbage, you'd get no complaints from me.


You might like this: 360 Degrees.  It's a collaboration between an English electronica band called The Propellerheads (they were featured in a ton of movie soundtracks in the late '90s/early '00s) and De La Soul.  As far as I can tell it never quite broke into the mainstream, but it's a neat track.
 
2013-08-22 02:20:23 AM  
Stopped reading right here: One participant in that war had an active policy of targeting enemy civilian population centers for wholesale destruction as a battlefield tactic

If you think the bombing in WWII was that one-sided, you have your head stuck so far up your ass you have shiat-stains on your armpits.
 
2013-08-22 02:24:01 AM  

TheJoe03: If you want to say pop rap is garbage, you'd get no complaints from me.


Considering that's what I usually hear being called rap that's what I consider rap. It's garbage as far as music goes. Hip Hop is a different story. Just like any other genre there are some groups that I can listen to while others don't appeal to me at all but I can call both types of hip hop groups at least some form of music.
 
2013-08-22 02:29:10 AM  

TheJoe03: Still don't get why, but you're free to have your opinions.


Well... you know what they say about opinions. Everyone's got one. That and an asshole. At least I know why I hold the opinion and it's not visceral but based upon what I consider music and can explain why that is so.
 
2013-08-22 02:30:20 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: You might like this: 360 Degrees.


I do indeed, did they do any other tracks together?

Oh and since you posted a cool rap/electronic collabo, here's one with Massive Attack and Mos Def. Just for shiats and giggles here's one with Black Keys and Mos Def.
 
2013-08-22 02:31:45 AM  

Radioactive Ass: At least I know why I hold the opinion and it's not visceral but based upon what I consider music and can explain why that is so.


Fair enough.
 
2013-08-22 02:33:41 AM  

Omahawg: the 80s were better in retrospect than the day to day reality 'cause where the hell are you gonna hear the Minutemen in a small town in Iowa?


The Tragically Hip in my case, but I feel you. But I think what happened with the marketing was it took a few years for a few of our own to sell out and teach the old money how to detach us from our's, just as occurred with the Boomers. The marketing of "rave culture" or "grunge" are good examples. For a couple years there all you had to do was come from Seattle and you had a record contract and were on tour opening for Pearl Jam or Soundgarden...
 
2013-08-22 02:35:57 AM  

TheJoe03: Fair enough.


Fair is all that one can ask for.
 
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