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(Opposing Views)   If you let southern parents decide who their children will be classmates with, do you get: a) a lot of diversity, b) some diversity, or c) total segregation?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 238
    More: Sad, Alabama, lead plaintiff, George Wallace, elementary schools  
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14070 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-22 01:30:49 AM  

Teufel Ritter: Oh I know, good sir. I was simply alluding to Hitchhiker's Guide.


Well then, 42 and carry on.
 
2013-08-22 01:37:00 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Oh wait, no, it's completely different.


I never heard of that.

Why would it not surprise me if that's exactly where the GOP insistence for public vouchers comes from?
 
2013-08-22 01:37:50 AM  

impaler: Don't make me QED a second time.


I have QED'd the post . . . pray I do not QED it any further . . .

www.mememaker.net
 
2013-08-22 01:41:37 AM  
www.world-free-printable-flags.com
 
2013-08-22 01:45:13 AM  

Mock26: If I remember correctly UCLA allows for segregated graduation ceremonies, so this is just prepping the kids for life at a major university.



I was just going to snark , but since my wife is a Bruin I decided to spend a full 30 seconds googling this. Turns out this was a talking point in the echo chamber in 2007, but is untrue - surprise! Everybody has the same commencement. Then you get your actual physical degree at your department. There are also various Student association celebrations, which aren't graduation ceremonies.
http://www.commencement.ucla.edu/schedule.cfm
 
2013-08-22 01:45:58 AM  

HotWingAgenda: impaler: Don't make me QED a second time.

I have QED'd the post . . . pray I do not QED it any further . . .

[www.mememaker.net image 592x400]


More impressive than what I was thinking.

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-08-22 01:48:21 AM  
Lsherm:

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold.  They self-segregated.  So my point stands:  I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I was an early proponent of school choice.  It made sense to a degree - if a school had a particular program you were interested in, if you were going to be sent to a different high school than the classmates you'd developed as friends in elementary or middle school, or if the district lines were redrawn such that you'd be sent to a different school than your older siblings had attended and you wanted to choice into a different school to be with your friends, have the teachers your siblings had had, or be able to take part in a particular program, it made sense.

I've since changed my mind because I've seen the damage it does when it runs rampant, especially when combined with charter schools.  The district that I attended through middle and high school was large and covered both wealthy suburban and poor urban areas.  When I attended high school my school was probably 60/40 white/black, and probably fairly similar in terms of middle class vs poor (not that that was purely on racial lines).  It was a good school, with great programs, great teachers, and an excellent music program which I took full advantage of.

Since then the district has opened several charter schools and allowed school choice to run amok.  The end result has been that the parents who care have all choiced their kids into one of the three high schools in the district, or sent them to the charter schools.  The other two high schools have thus experienced a 'brain drain' or more accurately an affluence drain, and are now mostly attended by students whose families don't really give a darn.

The charter schools and the one school that has a disproportionately high middle class or wealthier enrollment are scoring high on the state assessments and doing good things, while the other schools, who have to take everyone, are falling apart.

On one hand I understand that parents want their kids to have the best chance, so that's why they choice them into the other schools.  On the other, it creates a cycle where certain schools end up destined to fail as they end up with only the kids who don't care or whose parents don't care, and since that's the student population there, there's not much parent outrage about fixing it, not that it could be done without their help anyway.

Disallowing choice and turning charter schools into general enrollment schools fed from the district feeder patterns would help redistribute the talent and the socioeconomic backgrounds of the students throughout the district.  The end result would be the currently failing schools getting more attention and help.
 
2013-08-22 01:57:13 AM  

jaytkay: thenumber5: never been to the south have you we have a HUGE Asian population

No, you don't.

Percent Asian population
Georgia 3.5%
Alabama 1.2%    
Florida 2.7%    
South Carolina 0.1%
Texas 0.1%
Louisiana 1.7%
Mississippi 0.9%

It surprises me how many people think "my neighborhood" equals "the universe".

/ Well, not surprising in states with historically low levels of education


how about you step away from your Bias for a second, and look at the rest of the states

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states /a sian-population-percentage#map

once you get away from the North East Coast, and West coast. The south is in line population wise with most of the country

and hay lets check the Black population numbers

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/all-states /b lack-population-percentage#map

Hum, Seems it is you yankees and Mid westerns who live in you lilly white utopia. and not us southern folk
 
2013-08-22 02:00:40 AM  
TuteTibiImperes:

Disallowing choice and turning charter schools into general enrollment schools fed from the district feeder patterns would help redistribute the talent and the socioeconomic backgrounds of the students throughout the district.  The end result would be the currently failing schools getting more attention and help.
Haha, the "choice" folks WANT those schools to go in the dumpster.  Eventually they can wipe out the entire public school system and turn everything private so rich people can make more money.
 
2013-08-22 02:02:17 AM  

thenumber5: once you get away from the North East Coast, and West coast, and upper mid west. The south is in line population wise with most of the countr


So you admit they don't have HUGE asian population numbers.

Which was the original point.

So what's your point?

Also, once you get away from the North East Coast, and West coast, and upper mid west - you're in the South.
 
2013-08-22 02:09:40 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: thenumber5: PC LOAD LETTER: The problem with the South is that it's blacks and whites.  A lot more other non-whites go to cities in the north. NYC has so many other groups for white people to hate that though blacks have problems, it's diluted. No, I am being totally serious. I think this is a central difference.

never been to the south have you

we have a HUGE Asian population, alot of south-Vietnam expats came here after the war due to the similar environment, large number of military bases, and (as far as the coast goes) an already existing "Fisherman" culture

I'm not sure what your definition of HUGE is but if you're talking the rare ocasional Asian inside a car then I guess you're right. I was in MS not too long ago and had a craving for Chinese food.. could not find one for the longest time. Also made a point to look for oriental looking people and did not see any either until I finally found a hole in a wall hinese resutarant and those were the only Asians I saw in probably a 100 mile radius.


i live in mississippi

a: All Asians are not Chinese
B: there are a half dozen Chinese places with in 5 miles of my house
C: We have a large enough Asian population, that there is a very well respected Buddhist temple in town
 
2013-08-22 02:15:04 AM  

impaler: thenumber5: once you get away from the North East Coast, and West coast, and upper mid west. The south is in line population wise with most of the countr

So you admit they don't have HUGE asian population numbers.

Which was the original point.

So what's your point?

Also, once you get away from the North East Coast, and West coast, and upper mid west - you're in the South.


i40.tinypic.com
 
2013-08-22 02:41:50 AM  

untaken_name: demaL-demaL-yeH: untaken_name: Look, freedom of association is not an American value, ok? Nowhere is that right even mentioned. Forced integration doesn't cause any tensions or problems whatsoever.

Paging Mr. Crow. Mr. James Crow, please answer the zebra courtesy phone.

Right, because voluntary segregation through freedom of association is exactly the same as enforced segregation by law. Oh wait, no, it's completely different. Nice attempt to discredit me instead of actually say something yourself, btw. Excellent form.


The Supreme Court of the United States has repeatedly disagreed with you about that.
 
2013-08-22 02:50:36 AM  

thenumber5: way from the North East Coast, and West coast, and upper mid west - you're in the South.


3.bp.blogspot.com

Guess what else it used to say.
 
2013-08-22 02:54:29 AM  

Lsherm: AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter.  The south is still racist, but so is the north.  Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold.  They self-segregated.  So my point stands:  I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.


I heard a story from a very old relative about that. Seems when the urban kids (yes, they were mainly black) were bussed out to the local high school they tore up the school quite thoroughly. As soon as that happened all the families in the neighborhood (yes, they were mainly white) moved out almost immediately .No
 
2013-08-22 02:55:03 AM  

cardex: jaytkay: impaler: 64 civil rights act

You sound really well informed.

Please tell us about southern white conservatives' party affiliation in 1964 compared to 2013.

That would be really interesting.

TIA!

Well that's a very interesting question over the past 40 years the center had moved to the left and the whole liberal/conservative ideological split with party affiliation was not as pronounced before the zombie administration from 1980-88


LOLWUT?
 
2013-08-22 03:15:58 AM  

Teufel Ritter: It's a shame, too, because every race is just as smart as the other races.


There's no evidence that every race isn't as smart as the other races.  If you believe there is, you're a racist.

What there is evidence of is that poor kids with uninvolved parents fall behind in education regardless of their colour and natural aptitude.  This is mainly a poverty problem, not a race problem.  The simple fact is kids can't learn on an empty stomach, and mom isn't there to check up on their homework because she's working her third job.  Little Jimmy Bob from the trailer park isn't going to magically do better than little D'Anthony from South Central because he's white.
 
2013-08-22 03:20:54 AM  
Sorry I'm late to the thread... it's the kids... I couldn't find a sitter!

Anyway...


BIRDS OF A FEATHER TEND TO FLOCK TOGETHER


/Are you shocked?
//Shocked??
///shocked???
 
2013-08-22 03:28:19 AM  

Brosephus: OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.

I guess you fail to realize that the NAACP was founded by Whites, huh?  BET is actually Black Entertainment Television which is owned by Viacom and a sister station of MTV now.  Almost every other organization you list came to fruition because the general associations would not allow minority members to join their groups.  So, using the "free-market" ideals that are espoused and adored by American conservatives, Blacks and others simply started their own organizations to fulfill a demand that was not being met by White groups.

If you want to see those types of organizations disappear, then all you have to do is meet the demand before a "Black" group forms to meet it for you.


I think the point is less that BET is entertaining a targeted demographic with a shared cultural background and more that if you used "Miss White USA" and only white people are allowed to participate it's gonna be a problem. And it's perpetuating the problem as much as helping it.
 
2013-08-22 03:31:44 AM  
There ARE two sides though, and here are the choices:

A> The white folk mostly pulled their white children from black classes.

B> The black folk pulled their black children from white classes.

The one that makes me lean to the second is that some white children were refused admittance with the blacks, hinting the 62% black community didn't want their crotchfruit mixed in with the white's crotchfruit. Anyone say otherwise?
 
2013-08-22 03:39:08 AM  

if_i_really_have_to: Teufel Ritter: It's a shame, too, because every race is just as smart as the other races.

There's no evidence that every race isn't as smart as the other races.  If you believe there is, you're a racist.

What there is evidence of is that poor kids with uninvolved parents fall behind in education regardless of their colour and natural aptitude.  This is mainly a poverty problem, not a race problem.  The simple fact is kids can't learn on an empty stomach, and mom isn't there to check up on their homework because she's working her third job.  Little Jimmy Bob from the trailer park isn't going to magically do better than little D'Anthony from South Central because he's white.


I don't believe any child is naturally stupid. I believe lack of parenting is. And you are right, both sides have major parenting issues, though for a few not their fault. It's part "Lazy parent" and part "Afraid Parent," maybe even a little "Be a friend Parent." You can have fun with them, but you also need to discipline them in a controlled setting. Controlled being not in anger, not using a part of the body, and set number for the punishment. No more timeouts (they seldom work). Ground them, spank them, make them KNOW what they did was bad, and control the limits.

/grounding means confiscate everything they can have fun with too.
 
2013-08-22 03:47:14 AM  

Lsherm: edmo: The South hasn't changed.

I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.


They aren't any different, but instead of a racially segregated school, you have "the city schools" and the "the suburbs".
 
2013-08-22 03:59:37 AM  
img.fark.net
www.gislounge.com

Hey, you're pretty good! (other than you seem to think "upper midwest" = Canada)
 
2013-08-22 04:04:02 AM  
I like to consider myself isolated but even the private school where I send my daughter does this.  My daughter is half Filipino and they admitted they put her in a class where the majority is Filipino.  I don't mind too much but It is what it is.  They told me she identifies with those children so who am I to separate her from her self chosen friends?  They put her in a class with her friends.  Rascism?  Best interests?  I don't know.  Even myself, I get along better with mostly Asians.  Not all!  I live in an area that is totally being remodeled year by year.  Most the local shops speak Tagalog first.  Fun, because I can understand and they don't know it.
 
2013-08-22 04:15:13 AM  
and the south will fall again

/home sweet home
 
2013-08-22 04:24:02 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: The Supreme Court of the United States has repeatedly disagreed with you about that.


The same Supreme Court that ruled that if a mall produces more tax revenue than your house, that meets eminent domain qualifications? Appeals to authority do not determine the truth or falsehood of any position. Care to try again, this time, maybe using some of your own thoughts?
 
2013-08-22 04:40:47 AM  

garron: Diversity is good.  Forcing diversity on people is bad.  Imposing your ideals on others is simply fascism.

Educating people about the value of diversity and letting them make free-will decisions to live together is good.  Making laws to punish people who don't support your view of diversity is bad.


So refusing to seat black people at diners, use the same entrances at hotels, or use the drinking fountains is ok then?
 
2013-08-22 05:02:57 AM  

Lsherm: AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter.  The south is still racist, but so is the north.  Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold.  They self-segregated.  So my point stands:  I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.


My Southern parents always said Rochester, NY was the most racist place they ever lived.  Everybody lived in zones and you didn't ask to rent or buy outside your zone.
 
2013-08-22 05:03:14 AM  

lohphat: garron: Diversity is good.  Forcing diversity on people is bad.  Imposing your ideals on others is simply fascism.

Educating people about the value of diversity and letting them make free-will decisions to live together is good.  Making laws to punish people who don't support your view of diversity is bad.


So refusing to seat black people at diners, use the same entrances at hotels, or use the drinking fountains is ok then?


Let's pretend that people still had the freedom of association here in the US. What would happen if someone opened a whites-only establishment? Well, either people will patronize it, or they won't. If they choose not to, then the business will fail and other business owners will not adopt that business model. Note that this option would also be open to anyone - say, a brony-only restaurant or a hipster-only sidewalk coffeeshop and ironic clothing store or a female-only gym...oh wait, that last one exists. You should probably get up on that high horse of yours and join Curves. I'm sure they won't have any problem with that if you just wave the spectre of Jim Crow at them. I wonder why people can't seem to grasp the difference between laws compelling segregation and the freedom of people to choose who they want to be around. Note that voluntary segregation is not a white-only phenomenon. Most people are most comfortable with people they share traits with. They don't have to be racial or sexual traits, but that doesn't mean those preferences are somehow invalid.
 
2013-08-22 06:34:57 AM  

RexTalionis: FTA:The complaint further alleges that the school acted deliberately in segregating the races, even denying requests; "In a few instances the Troy City School District disregarded requests by Caucasian parents to place their child with African-American teachers."


Ah...missed that part.

Pretty stupid IMHO.  Kids don't care about race...kids will play with other kids.  Racism is a learned behavior.
 
2013-08-22 06:41:28 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: I can't see this being a good idea.  Parents should be involved in their kids' schooling, but that involvement should be helping with homework, communicating with the teachers about student progress, following up with discipline from school, and attending parent/teacher conferences to get an idea about how their kids are progressing and any issues that they should be aware of.  Basically, parents need to trust the teachers' and school's judgment and reinforce that at home, and take a cooperative role, not a meddlesome one.

Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.  However, far too often parents go into snowflake mode instead of trust the judgment of the professionals at the school.


This makes entirely too much sense. You must be new here.
 
2013-08-22 06:52:23 AM  

RexTalionis: slayer199: So in a school with a 62% black population, the black parents chose black teachers for their kids and the white parents chose white teachers for their kids so the classrooms were ultimately divided by the race of the teacher?  How is the school culpable (other than it's a stupid idea)?  Unless the school fudged the numbers, how is that forced segregation?

FTA:The complaint further alleges that the school acted deliberately in segregating the races, even denying requests; "In a few instances the Troy City School District disregarded requests by Caucasian parents to place their child with African-American teachers."


Classrooms have a limit to the number of kids per room. If your request comes in late. It might not be able to be fulfilled.

Math, how does it work?

The white minority is picking on us!
 
2013-08-22 07:29:21 AM  
garron: ...Diversity is good.  Forcing diversity on people is bad.  Imposing your ideals on others is simply fascism.

That is not, in fact, the definition of fascism
 
2013-08-22 07:46:26 AM  
The school is in a tough spot. They hate giving parents any power but they need the kids.
 
2013-08-22 07:46:27 AM  
I dunno, I want to segrate my son from both of these groups, hence I do not live in Alabama. Given a choice though I would have him in a class full of Asians.
 
2013-08-22 07:56:34 AM  
We do need integration. Black on black crime is so high they need some other group to hit on or it gets boring.
 
2013-08-22 08:14:54 AM  
Let me get this straight. You mean that people tend to prefer to be with other people who are like them?

I'll alert the media, Sir.
 
2013-08-22 08:25:57 AM  

Lsherm: edmo: The South hasn't changed.

I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.


Shhhhh, we're trying to be biased against the south, here.
 
2013-08-22 08:38:13 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: It's a human thing, not a Southern thing.
Every race does it, every society does it, and we have always done it.


Yes, that's objectively true, of course. But people rarely confront objective reality. They are far more likely to live inside a bubble of fantasies, stories and fables that rattle around inside their own heads, and call them reality. They don't live in reality; they live in a Narrative Reality.

Narrative Reality is clearly written in a way that insists that straight, white, Southern, middle-class men of northwest European descent are evil incarnate, and that the racism of that particular demographic is somehow special or unique.

Every other type of person is afforded the basic human right of freedom of association, except straight, white, Southern, middle-class men of northwest European descent.
 
2013-08-22 08:41:39 AM  

slayer199: Ah...missed that part.

Pretty stupid IMHO.  Kids don't care about race...kids will play with other kids.  Racism is a learned behavior.


I'm pretty sure it's not.  Kids visciously try to destroy anything that differers from what they identify with starting at about age 7 or 8.  Like the wrong music? You suck.  Eat the wrong food? You suck.  Wear the wrong clothes? You suck.  If you think that race isn't taken into account when kids form cliques (and they do), then you're blind.  And no one hangs out with the blind kid, they just sit him beside the parrot and tell him that "Jimmy is a little slow".
 
2013-08-22 08:50:36 AM  

mike_d85: slayer199: Ah...missed that part.

Pretty stupid IMHO.  Kids don't care about race...kids will play with other kids.  Racism is a learned behavior.

I'm pretty sure it's not.  Kids visciously try to destroy anything that differers from what they identify with starting at about age 7 or 8.  Like the wrong music? You suck.  Eat the wrong food? You suck.  Wear the wrong clothes? You suck.  If you think that race isn't taken into account when kids form cliques (and they do), then you're blind.  And no one hangs out with the blind kid, they just sit him beside the parrot and tell him that "Jimmy is a little slow".


Music, food and clothes are cultural not racial.  Hating someone for being too brown or not brown enough is learned.
 
2013-08-22 09:01:30 AM  

lewismarktwo: Music, food and clothes are cultural not racial.  Hating someone for being too brown or not brown enough is learned.


I honestly believe NOT hating someone for being too brown or not brown enough is learned.  I am pretty sure people identify with what they recognize as similar to themselves, regardless of what that factor is.  I think it it is the problem faced by internationally adopted children into families of different races.  They grow up knowing they're adoped and can't identify with the world around them and often require therapy.
 
2013-08-22 09:02:04 AM  
This just in:

People are more comfortable being around other people who are like them.
 
2013-08-22 09:22:18 AM  
As a white male, there are thousands of organizations that I am precluded from joining. Solely because of my race and/or gender.

However, any person that is a member of one of the organizations that I am precluded from joining, may also join any organization that I am allowed to join.

Example: A white male engineer may join the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, but discouraged from joining the National Society of Black Engineers.
A black male engineer may join both.
 
2013-08-22 09:29:52 AM  

AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?


Kids learn what they're taught and there were both black and white kids that I was in school with in MS(graduated high school in 1993) that hated the other race.  Looking back on it, I can see that they were likely learning it at home.  You just don't get those sorts of virulently racist opinions by the time some of them had them.

I don't remember the name of the song, but I know Ice-T had an anti-racism song about rejecting the racism of your parents that always reminded me of where I grew up.

When it comes to the south, the popular image is to lay the racism completely on the shoulders of white southerners.  While they carry the root of the problem, the problem is perpetuated by both black and white equally.  At least that's how it was when I was growing up in MS.
 
2013-08-22 09:33:28 AM  

ParagonComplex: Alabama and Georgia have knockdown drag-out fights over who is the most redneck and racist.


Mississippi waits until the fight is over so it's easier to beat up the winner.
 
2013-08-22 09:51:55 AM  

ParagonComplex: Dudes, it's Alabama. A LA BA MA. It is not a paragon of racial tolerance. What did you expect? It is the most redneck state in the nation. Alabama and Georgia have knockdown drag-out fights over who is the most redneck and racist. This is not at all surprising.


Wow, you just proved what an ignorant moron you are.  Thanks for that.
 
2013-08-22 10:05:39 AM  

pedobearapproved: Brosephus: OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.

I guess you fail to realize that the NAACP was founded by Whites, huh?  BET is actually Black Entertainment Television which is owned by Viacom and a sister station of MTV now.  Almost every other organization you list came to fruition because the general associations would not allow minority members to join their groups.  So, using the "free-market" ideals that are espoused and adored by American conservatives, Blacks and others simply started their own organizations to fulfill a demand that was not being met by White groups.

If you want to see those types of organizations disappear, then all you have to do is meet the demand before a "Black" group forms to meet it for you.

I think the point is less that BET is entertaining a targeted demographic with a shared cultural background and more that if you used "Miss White USA" and only white people are allowed to participate it's gonna be a problem. And it's perpetuating the problem as much as helping it.


And I think you missed my point completely.  The Miss USA pageant historically WAS the "Miss White USA" as Blacks were not allowed to compete.  Hence the formation of the Black Miss USA pageant to give Black women an outlet to compete.  It's the same with most every other item that was listed there with the exception of the NAACP.  Look at the history of those organizations and how long they've been in existence.  They didn't just pop up when a Black man was elected president.  These organizations have been around for ages.  Most people didn't know of their existence until others started biatching about them being in existence.

It's the same as the argument about Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU).  They were started after the Civil War to educate the newly freed slaves.  They have historically provided a safe sanctuary for higher education when Blacks were forbidden to enroll in predominately White universities.  If you don't want a "Black" institution to form and/or thrive, then don't allow the opportunity for one to exist.  This country is farther along in race relations than it was decades ago when these groups were founded.  Most will probably end up obsolete in another 50-100 years, but it will take a long time to erase the 200+ years of racial animosity built up in this country.  That amount of history can not be reversed in 2-3 decades.
 
2013-08-22 10:07:53 AM  
Southerners hate all blacks except the ones they know.

Northerners love all blacks except the ones they know.

/can't remember who said that
 
2013-08-22 10:10:56 AM  

Tricky Chicken: As a white male, there are thousands of organizations that I am precluded from joining. Solely because of my race and/or gender.

However, any person that is a member of one of the organizations that I am precluded from joining, may also join any organization that I am allowed to join.

Example: A white male engineer may join the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, but discouraged from joining the National Society of Black Engineers.
A black male engineer may join both.


Being discouraged from joining is NOT the same thing as being denied from joining.

http://www.nsbe.org/Aboutus.aspx

"No person shall be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination in any NSBE program or activity available on the basis of race, color, sex, religion, creed, political belief, age, national origin, linguistic and language difference, sexual orientation, socio-economic status, height, weight, marital or familial status, or disability. "

That comes directly from their website.  That's just as big a myth as the one that White's can't attend HBCUs.
 
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