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(Opposing Views)   If you let southern parents decide who their children will be classmates with, do you get: a) a lot of diversity, b) some diversity, or c) total segregation?   (opposingviews.com) divider line 238
    More: Sad, Alabama, lead plaintiff, George Wallace, elementary schools  
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14063 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:53 PM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 11:22:23 PM
Overcome your fears or weaknesses or prejudices or whatever it is that causes you to do this, you silly southerners. You're missing out on a lot of what makes life rich and wonderful.
 
2013-08-21 11:23:50 PM

Pacfanweb: Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.


Which is exactly what the people who created this policy wanted to happen.
 
2013-08-21 11:24:03 PM

Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.


Exactly right.  Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals.  There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.
 
2013-08-21 11:24:23 PM

Pacfanweb: Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.


Probably because they, or someone in their family (civil rights "movement" wasn't that long ago) was directly affected by the inbred, backwards, morans who get drunk or high on "religion", gang up with their buddies and do shiat they wouldn't do in front of their mother.

Remember the "experiment" one of the networks did not too long after 9/11 by sending someone dressed in tradition Arab garb to one of the NASCAR races at Talladega? Absolutely nothing happened. Treated the same as everyone else at a crowded event. Not even a holler from "someone in the crowd".
 
2013-08-21 11:24:32 PM
 
2013-08-21 11:25:32 PM
Meh, My parents didn't care who was in my classes while I was in elementary school and I didn't care who was in my daughter's classes while she was in elementary school.  Only thing I really cared about was that whoever was in my daughter's classes that they at the very least not be disruptive.
 
2013-08-21 11:26:12 PM
 
2013-08-21 11:27:49 PM

OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.


You realize you can join the NAACP without any questionnaire regarding your color/ethnicity right? I can't speak to others on that list but the NAACP. You pay your dues, you get a membership card.

Money is almost the only color all of these groups care much about.
 
2013-08-21 11:28:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right.  Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals.  There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.


Unionized public school teachers have a lower firing rate than any other profession.

It's not that there aren't good teachers, it's that it's impossible to fire bad ones, so they stick around.
 
2013-08-21 11:28:06 PM

God-is-a-Taco: It's a human thing, not a Southern thing.
Every race does it, every society does it, and we have always done it.


Yet people still can't accept that this is the norm. Humans have always been tribal. Now, somehow, that's something to be ridiculed for by the "enlightened" among us.
 
2013-08-21 11:30:33 PM
School really is just like prison.
 
2013-08-21 11:32:32 PM

12349876: Pacfanweb: Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.

Which is exactly what the people who created this policy wanted to happen.


So they created the policy because they knew the black parents would segregate themselves and they wanted them to do that?

That's...racist? I'm honestly not sure, but I'm white so I feel guilty anyway.

I guess it's racist they wanted the classes to end up segregated, if that is true....but apparently so did the black parents since that's what they chose for their kids. Should I be offended here or not?
 
2013-08-21 11:33:31 PM
So black parents want their children to be taught by black teachers?

The article fails to explain the reasons.  Are black parents saying the black teachers aren't as good as the white teachers?

If only there were news sources which didn't pay Fark for greenlights that weren't complete and utter trolls.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:38 PM
Wow, the  Troy School District of Alabama is now representing all Southern parents?  Congratulations on demonstrating how much of a bigot you are while pointing out bigots.  Deserves the irony tag for submitter.
 
2013-08-21 11:34:07 PM

Vectron: demaL-demaL-yeH: Vectron: Why is this a bad thing?

Separate is not equal. Fourteenth Amendment. Civil Rights Act. Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Brownbeckistan.

How about if it is voluntary?


Well, that's different.

Let me see here:
Separate is still not equal.
Fourteenth Amendment is still the standard for equal treatment of persons.
Civil Rights Act is still the law of the land.
Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka, Brownbeckistan is settled law.
 
2013-08-21 11:34:08 PM

Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right.  Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals.  There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.

Unionized public school teachers have a lower firing rate than any other profession.

It's not that there aren't good teachers, it's that it's impossible to fire bad ones, so they stick around.


Being able to enjoy a now all-to-uncommon level of job security does not mean that that there is a higher level of bad teachers.  In most districts it takes several years before you can earn tenure, so the bad ones are eliminated fairly early on.  It's not a profession that tends to draw those unwilling to work.  It requires a degree, continuing education, and a lot of work for not a lot of money.

Again, sure, there are some bad apples, but that's true of any job.  Those don't in any way represent the profession as a whole.
 
2013-08-21 11:34:32 PM

js34603: 12349876: Pacfanweb: Funny how people are piling on white folks, but fail to see that the all-black classes were that way because THEIR parents wanted it that way.

Which is exactly what the people who created this policy wanted to happen.

So they created the policy because they knew the black parents would segregate themselves and they wanted them to do that?

That's...racist? I'm honestly not sure, but I'm white so I feel guilty anyway.

I guess it's racist they wanted the classes to end up segregated, if that is true....but apparently so did the black parents since that's what they chose for their kids. Should I be offended here or not?


The trickiest kind of racist,
 
2013-08-21 11:35:37 PM
The problem with the South is that it's blacks and whites.  A lot more other non-whites go to cities in the north. NYC has so many other groups for white people to hate that though blacks have problems, it's diluted. No, I am being totally serious. I think this is a central difference.
 
2013-08-21 11:36:19 PM
"Southern"?

You're telling me white kids in the fancy north have mostly black friends and all black favorite teachers?
 
2013-08-21 11:37:29 PM
Actually, if you research it for the last 20 years many african americans are moving back to the south from the north because of better schools, neighborhoods, and the ability to live in a more "black" place.

Hell, sixty minutes did a special on it almost ten years back.

I am multicultural.  Black, Colombian, Italian and jewish ancestry.  And the only time anyone ever asked me about the ethnic background was up north on the west coast.

1. West Coast"you sure are light skinned for a mexican."  I learned that if you are latino in Cali, you are a beaner by default.
2. Philadelphia " yo i heard you kicking that spanish bro, i like those boricuas."
 
2013-08-21 11:38:05 PM
Diversity is good.  Forcing diversity on people is bad.  Imposing your ideals on others is simply fascism.

Educating people about the value of diversity and letting them make free-will decisions to live together is good.  Making laws to punish people who don't support your view of diversity is bad.

Some people like to be with others similar to them.  That's why there are white neighborhoods, black neighborhoods, vietnamese neighborhoods, gay neighborhoods, china town, little italy, etc.

Some people like to live in a neighborhood with lots of cultural and racial diversity.

Both of these types of people are just ok exactly the way they are.  They don't need communist control over their decisions.

Nobody wants their life controlled by power-hungry, control freak, hypocrite liberals.  Please go away (like to North Korea or something) and leave normal people to live their lives in freedom.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:41 PM

trappedspirit: Wow, the  Troy School District of Alabama is now representing all Southern parents?  Congratulations on demonstrating how much of a bigot you are while pointing out bigots.  Deserves the irony tag for submitter.



actually as someone who lived in Selma, Alabama, the segration for the last decade, is totally african american.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:42 PM

Dwindle: "Southern"?

You're telling me white kids in the fancy north have mostly black friends and all black favorite teachers?


Which of course isn't at all what the article says.  Students in most districts have a mix of white, black, Hispanic, and (if there's enough of them around) Asian classmates.  The mix may not be equal, because the population of each demographic group may not be equal in the district, but it isn't completely segregated either.

Normal students will have friends of multiple races and teachers of multiple races.
 
2013-08-21 11:39:03 PM
a more informative article on the issue:

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/19/213510484/suit-in-alabama-seeks-to-sto p- school-choice-law

Opposing Views makes the Daily Mail seem like the NY Times.
 
2013-08-21 11:39:19 PM
Is this the thread where white people gripe about the racial prejudice and indignity they have suffered over many decades?

/ Yes
// Yes it is
 
2013-08-21 11:40:22 PM
It's not unique to the south. When given a choice people will segregate. I remember back in high school (Here in WA St) you usually went to school assemblies with whatever class you were in when the assembly was called. They decided not to implement this rule for the Martin Luther King Jr. day assembly, and free seating was allowed. What happened? One side of the auditorium was black, one side was white.

As a dumb teenager I found it amusing. As a dumb adult I find it depressing.
 
2013-08-21 11:40:51 PM

garron: Diversity is good.  Forcing diversity on people is bad.  Imposing your ideals on others is simply fascism.

Educating people about the value of diversity and letting them make free-will decisions to live together is good.  Making laws to punish people who don't support your view of diversity is bad.

Some people like to be with others similar to them.  That's why there are white neighborhoods, black neighborhoods, vietnamese neighborhoods, gay neighborhoods, china town, little italy, etc.

Some people like to live in a neighborhood with lots of cultural and racial diversity.

Both of these types of people are just ok exactly the way they are.  They don't need communist control over their decisions.

Nobody wants their life controlled by power-hungry, control freak, hypocrite liberals.  Please go away (like to North Korea or something) and leave normal people to live their lives in freedom.


2/10. You might be able to hook somebody because Texas.
 
2013-08-21 11:43:37 PM
I was born and raised in the South, and my parents made sure I had play mates of all races in the 70s.  Although my parents were college educated and my father was in the Navy.

/anecdotal evidence is anecdotal
 
2013-08-21 11:43:57 PM

jaytkay: Is this the thread where white people gripe about the racial prejudice and indignity they have suffered over many decades?

/ Yes
// Yes it is


Is it?

Point to an example of that.  Instead it seems like another thread where people point fingers at the South and claim it's racist while all the time ignoring the fact that it's not nearly as racist as where they're from.
 
2013-08-21 11:44:41 PM
DNRTFA. Kinda wish I could choose my kids classmates eliminating the ones with criminal records and those who can't pass a drug test (there's bunch of them). Years ago I was told "Pre-K will help your child with social skills". But what if your child is surrounded by former crack babies and stupid kids.
 
2013-08-21 11:47:03 PM

northguineahills: I was born and raised in the South, and my parents made sure I had play mates of all races in the 70s.  Although my parents were college educated and my father was in the Navy.

/anecdotal evidence is anecdotal


Wait, this sounds familiar . . .

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 11:48:26 PM
The white southerner hates black southerners because they are his closest competition.
 
2013-08-21 11:49:07 PM

OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.


You forgot the Black Physicians Directory. Our skin color is important because we're all the same color inside.
 
2013-08-21 11:49:42 PM
Look, freedom of association is not an American value, ok? Nowhere is that right even mentioned. Forced integration doesn't cause any tensions or problems whatsoever.
 
2013-08-21 11:50:04 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Lsherm: AirForceVet: Lsherm: I'm not sure the results would be any different if you allowed parents from any school district in the country to make the same choice.

I'm sorry, but where were you in the South during the 1960s? Gleam in your daddy's eye, perhaps?

Doesn't matter.  The south is still racist, but so is the north.  Pretending otherwise is just delusional.

Whites in the north began moving out of cities once forced integration via busing took hold.  They self-segregated.  So my point stands:  I don't think the results would be any different if you allowed parents in any school district in the country to make the same choice.

This. Everyone does this, north or south, red or blue.


images.nymag.com
 
2013-08-21 11:50:40 PM
It's a crap blog article written by a college kid.

It's not news...it's opposing views.   Herp derp
 
2013-08-21 11:51:24 PM
Fano:
[images.nymag.com image 850x850]

NYC?
 
2013-08-21 11:53:44 PM

theflatline: Actually, if you research it for the last 20 years many african americans are moving back to the south from the north because of better schools, neighborhoods, and the ability to live in a more "black" place.


A lot of them are going to Atlanta
 
2013-08-21 11:55:18 PM

edmo: The South hasn't changed.


But the Supreme Court has assured me that racism is over?!?
 
2013-08-21 11:55:57 PM

OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.


You do know that the president of the NAACP is white, right?
 
2013-08-21 11:57:50 PM
I don't know if anybody has noticed or not, but overall,  black people and white people don't really hang out with each other much.
 
2013-08-21 11:59:49 PM

Vectron: Fano:
[images.nymag.com image 850x850]

NYC?


Yes indeed, from the thread we had the other day about segregation in cities in the Northeast.
 
2013-08-22 12:02:14 AM

untaken_name: Look, freedom of association is not an American value, ok? Nowhere is that right even mentioned. Forced integration doesn't cause any tensions or problems whatsoever.


Paging Mr. Crow. Mr. James Crow, please answer the zebra courtesy phone.
 
2013-08-22 12:04:24 AM

OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.


Aww... Bless his heart.
 
2013-08-22 12:04:47 AM

UHC2005: OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.

You do know that the president of the NAACP is white, right?


You do know he's actually mixed race, right?  Not that anyone's point was really that membership to the NAACP is exclusive to, er, CP, but rather that its mission is.
 
2013-08-22 12:05:27 AM

OnlyM3: edmo

The South hasn't changed.
Yeah, it's all the south's fault.
* nclr (National Council of "The Race")
* naacp (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People)
* bet (Black Entertainment Awards)
* cbc (Congressional Black Caucus)
* aapc (African American Planning Commission)
* naba (National Association of Black Accountants)
* AASB (African American Speaker Bureau)
* bca ( Black Culinarians Alliance)
* Miss Black USA
* bwsma (Black Wall Street Merchants Association)

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. "

Keep the dream alive.


I guess you fail to realize that the NAACP was founded by Whites, huh?  BET is actually Black Entertainment Television which is owned by Viacom and a sister station of MTV now.  Almost every other organization you list came to fruition because the general associations would not allow minority members to join their groups.  So, using the "free-market" ideals that are espoused and adored by American conservatives, Blacks and others simply started their own organizations to fulfill a demand that was not being met by White groups.

If you want to see those types of organizations disappear, then all you have to do is meet the demand before a "Black" group forms to meet it for you.
 
2013-08-22 12:06:39 AM
Classes should be segregated... by academic ability. Parental choice? WTF?
 
2013-08-22 12:07:00 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Lsherm: TuteTibiImperes: Now, in the rare cases where there's a legitimately bad teacher or they feel their kid is being underserved, sure, bring that up to the administration.

Riiiiiight.

Exactly right.  Most teachers are hard working, dedicated, well-trained professionals.  There are some bad apples as in any profession, but they aren't in any way shape or form the rule.

Given the low salaries that most teachers earn (and save your stories about the ridiculous outliers that the anti-union crowd likes to dredge up, they're just that, ridiculous outliers not in any way representative of the whole) and the very large amount of work it takes to get that salary, there are much easier professions for slackers to earn their livings in.

Unionized public school teachers have a lower firing rate than any other profession.

It's not that there aren't good teachers, it's that it's impossible to fire bad ones, so they stick around.

Being able to enjoy a now all-to-uncommon level of job security does not mean that that there is a higher level of bad teachers.  In most districts it takes several years before you can earn tenure, so the bad ones are eliminated fairly early on.  It's not a profession that tends to draw those unwilling to work.  It requires a degree, continuing education, and a lot of work for not a lot of money.

Again, sure, there are some bad apples, but that's true of any job.  Those don't in any way represent the profession as a whole.


I don't disagree, but it's one of the few professions that makes it impossible to fire people who give up once they reach the magical tenure stage.  Any profession that has less than a 1% turnover rate due to termination either doesn't evaluate itself honestly or has blocks in place to make sure that bad employees cannot be removed.  Doctors work hard, too, and they are 500 times more likely (really) to not only be fired, but to have their licenses revoked, than a public school teacher.  It is an industry with very little accountability after the first few years.
 
2013-08-22 12:10:30 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: This. Everyone does this, north or south, red or blue.


64 civil rights act

by party and region

Note: "Southern", as used in this section, refers to members of Congress from the eleven states that made up the Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. "Northern" refers to members from the other 39 states, regardless of the geographic location of those states.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)

Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)


BOTH SIDES ARE BAD!!!

Fuking Republicans.
 
2013-08-22 12:11:52 AM

slayer199: So in a school with a 62% black population, the black parents chose black teachers for their kids and the white parents chose white teachers for their kids so the classrooms were ultimately divided by the race of the teacher?  How is the school culpable (other than it's a stupid idea)?  Unless the school fudged the numbers, how is that forced segregation?


Having grown up In nearby Covington County and knowing that there is a amazingly segregated State University in Troy.

This.
 Black parents chose non-caucasian classrooms and teachers.

I live in NJ now. There is way more forced segregation here than where I grew up.
 
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