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(Bloomberg)   Thousands of wild dogs roam Detroit. Article includes the adjective "post-apocalyptic"   (bloomberg.com) divider line 29
    More: Scary, Detroit, control unit, postman, humanitarian crisis  
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7281 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 3:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 06:53:15 PM
3 votes:

dpzum1: serial_crusher: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism  Unions are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.


It's complicated.

1) Black people move north because factory jobs (even with Northern personal racism) are better than Southern sharecropping (That belt of poverty draped across the Deep South is surprisingly black).
2) Northern Personal racism causes segregation, poverty, low education, etc, etc, etc.
3) The richest working-class in the country works in the factories.
4) The factories start moving out of Detroit into the burbs and (mostly later) automation starts shedding jobs.  This means that a lot of black people get laid off because of First Hired, Last Fired.
5) The Detroit area builds a lot of cars and freeways.
6) The richest working-class in the country uses those freeways to move to the suburbs, where more and more often the jobs are.  (Honestly, they're still probably the best-value suburbs in the country in terms of wages/cost of living)

Now this is not bad.  It's a fairly bog-standard path followed by pretty much every single Midwestern city, and at worst you're Chicago or Cleveland, and at best, you're Pittsburg.  Lots of cities did this, lots of cities adapted, lots of cities survived.

7) Riots.

Still not bad yet.  Lots of cities had riots.

8) Because it's easier to flee than fight (Seriously, it's really, really easy.  The Lodge is a wonderful road), white people flee out to yards and trees and better schools and lower taxes.
9) Coleman Young gets elected.  He's a racist, corrupt farker (And I apologize to all farkers).  Him and his cronies proceed to loot the city, and chase all remaining white people out of the city.  Since as a result of centuries of segregation and discrimination, white people are also more likely to be rich and educated people, the wealth leaves.
10) The city is screwed.  The population left, the wealth left, Chicago-style corruption taken to the extreme is NORMAL.  Every time someone tries to help, the result is "FARK WHITEY".  Archer tries, but the mayor lacks power.
11) Finally, the black middle class says "Fark This" and leaves.

Then you get the sprawling suburbs as well as the abandoned core.
2013-08-21 04:51:15 PM
3 votes:

darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.


It's no different than the gold rush boom cities that appeared in the southwest, it just progressed over decades rather than years.

Detroit out-grew it's need and a corrupt system destroyed itself.  It taught the world valuable lessons in industrialization, it's final lessons before entering the atomic age.  It taught us the remarkable lessons of efficiancy from Henry Ford, of marketing and passion from General Motors, of creativity and engineering from Chrysler.  It's workers taught us the value of fair wages.  It gave us our modern work week and showed that the country could support a war with hard labor when needed.  It experienced a life it never warranted and became the center of art and music in the nation for several years.  It was a city that came in it's time and only truely existed in a microchasm and will not be forgotten.  It will remain in name, but the world will go on and remember "the factories of detroit" as it does the "libraries of Alexandria" which were all but lost.

I assure you, in 150 years the ruins will be a tourist destination, but right now it's just a shiathole filled with crackheads and strays.
2013-08-21 04:17:03 PM
3 votes:

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


You spelled unions wrong.
2013-08-22 01:34:27 PM
2 votes:

Propain_az: justinguarini4ever: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

Really? White people killed Detroit? I know the Kilpatricks sound like a large Irish family from County Cork, but Kwame and Co. are pretty far from pasty.

Talkin' 'bout white flight, my brother.  White Flight.  They left and took they money with them.


Well... congratulations. You now have an entire city free from the oppressive thumb of Whitey. You now have ZERO excuses or white  people to blame for the city's continued spiral into chaos. So, make this an opportunity. The rest of America recognized (and recognizes) that to live here you must seize opportunities and make use of them yourself. The Italians, Irish, Scottish, Asian, and even Mexican communities have all succeeded at acclimation (in a much shorter time), even when they faced as much or more racist discrimination. The only difference is that they don't think (as a group) that anybody OWES them anything. So change the entitlement mindset of your community, seize the day, CREATE YOUR OWN FUTURE. In the process you will earn the "Respect" your community desperately craves, and will build an empire to rival the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts.

/We are all Americans.
//Not any other hyphenated nationality.
///I am not a Saxon-Scotch American. Just an American.
2013-08-21 05:17:21 PM
2 votes:

MBooda: OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.

So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

[www.mackinac.org image 600x477]
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway


Why would it have to be a satellte? Aerial surveillance is far older than satelites.
2013-08-21 04:05:25 PM
2 votes:
www.terrariaonline.com
2013-08-21 04:01:37 PM
2 votes:
i.imgur.com
VATS helps.
2013-08-21 04:00:51 PM
2 votes:
"Post-apocalyptic Detroit" is a redundant phrase
2013-08-22 11:14:56 AM
1 votes:

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


I lived in Detroit for 50 years, I finally left - not because of black people, but because every other house was being broken into while I was at work.  We would call the police and they would show up 4 to 5 hours later if at all.  When we called 911 about people pulling aluminum siding off the neighbors house while they were at work, they wouldn't even send the police out. My car was stolen, they tell me they don't send the police out anymore!  You have to go to the station yourself.  Had to take 2 buses just to get to the police station to report my car stolen!   Then about 2 months later I get mail from the impound yard that they are going to dispose of my car.  It was found the same day it was stolen and no one from the police department bothered to call me!

And believe me, I do not blame the police, I blame all the people who have sucked the resources dry, like slackers who never pay taxes, corruption within the city counsel, etc.

And if that is not enough for you, here are a couple of really good reasons that Detroit went downhill:

Coleman Young
Kwame Kilpatrick

And I have worked at Wayne State University for 15 years and the neighborhood is thriving...know why?  We have our own police force.
And we have people in charge who are held accountable for their actions.
2013-08-21 08:20:15 PM
1 votes:

wee: alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...

You forgot about pension and benefits.  You couldn't just pay a couple guys $25/hour ($50K/year ain't bad for picking up dogs).  You'd need to pay for medical, dental, FICA, and their pension. And then the union would demand they earn $65/hour because they want the city to go further in debt and make it even harder to get blood from a stone. Though they'd run some bullshiat about "livable wage" and whatever.  And then there's likely overtime pay, weekend pay, shift differential, and so on.

One thing a government worker knows everything about is the various ways to get paid.


Fark, give me $100K and I'll come on over with my silenced Ruger 10/22 for a year.  I'll even buy the ammo.  I figure that the other dogs will take care of the carcasses.
2013-08-21 08:01:11 PM
1 votes:

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Dats raciss!  You saying black folks can't run a city without white folks helping them out?
2013-08-21 07:14:42 PM
1 votes:

another day off: Forgive the partial thread jack. My wife and I were talking about what can be done in Detroit, besides set it in fire. My thought was, clear out all of the empty, burned out buildings and start an urban farm of acres and acres of medicinal marijuana and hemp. Just think about the increase to the tax base... The population would be able to get jobs, money would flow. Detroit could come back from the hellhole that it is now.


MadSkillz: Can they convert it into farmland? It is okay land right?


Two problems.
1) No neighborhood is completely empty.  Gonna take a lot of New Haven-level eminent domain rulings or $$ incentives to move those last holdouts into a cleaner, denser core, where incidentally the city can provide lights, trash pickup, water, police, etc. services more efficiently. But that's being talked about and worked on by lots of conventional and unconventional urban planning/architecture/sociology/etc. folks.
2) It'll take a lot of work to clear all the concrete/asphalt/metal/wood/stone rubble out to get back to farmable soil. Fill in the basements, etc.

Plus the land might have lots of lead, oil residue, HIV-positive syringes, etc.  Good luck getting an organic certification for that. OK, that's 3 problems.

And land that's been paved over for 50 years isn't exactly fertile topsoil - very few of the necessary worms, beetles, micro-organisms.

Among our problems...  Wait, I'll come in again.
2013-08-21 06:59:45 PM
1 votes:

alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...


Yeah lets not let the fact that only part of that 1.6 mil/year is salaries while the rest is to keep their trucks running, pay for the facility they house the captured dogs in, food for the dogs (unless you are sadistic and want to watch a bunch of caged animals starve), medical care for the dogs, etc.
2013-08-21 06:47:26 PM
1 votes:
Forgive the partial thread jack. My wife and I were talking about what can be done in Detroit, besides set it in fire. My thought was, clear out all of the empty, burned out buildings and start an urban farm of acres and acres of medicinal marijuana and hemp. Just think about the increase to the tax base... The population would be able to get jobs, money would flow. Detroit could come back from the hellhole that it is now.
2013-08-21 06:00:15 PM
1 votes:

Vectron: Housing is cheap. There is an existing infrastructure. It's a transportation hub.
What is keeping business away?


Insanely high property taxes.

img850.imageshack.us

The city has liens on most property for back taxes, so even houses or buildings that are "free" have enormous liabilities behind them.  Instead of forgiving those liens to get people to move in and develop an area, the city council sits on their ass and complains about racism.
2013-08-21 05:21:29 PM
1 votes:

jaybeezey: MBooda: OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.

So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

[www.mackinac.org image 600x477]
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway

Why would it have to be a satellte? Aerial surveillance is far older than satelites.


The USDA has been using aerial photography since 1937. Mostly of farmland though.
2013-08-21 05:01:15 PM
1 votes:

darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.


It's a surreal experience actually.

You start in what most people would consider a normal middle class neighborhood (Warren, Dearborn, Southfield) and head towards the city.  There is NEVER a question of when you have crossed the border.  The buildings are immediately dilapidated, properties abandoned or burned out, landscapes completely at the whim of nature.  As you get deeper in, you experience the local "culture".  Hookers and drug deals going on right on the street corners as school children try to walk by and ignore what's going on around them.

Then you hit ground zero.  Industrial properties shuttered, old office buildings abandoned, entire city blocks with their properties raised with packs of wild dogs roaming through, the old train station (a formerly beautiful building) hulking like the husk of some dead giant.  There is a palpable feeling of neglect, hopelessness, and desperation.

Then comes downtown, a small bright vibrant community that looks like it doesn't belong there.  Stadiums, theaters, restaurants, offices, parks, all feeling frantically like a bastion against the darkness just outside the glow of the streetlights.

That isn't a metaphor either.  Most of the 40% of the city's working streetlights are in this radius.  As you cross that boundary and head back out towards the suburbs you move back through concentric circles of destruction.  Ground zero, the deep neighborhoods, then the boundary territory.  Then, on the East side, the strangest thing happens.  You enter Grosse Pointe.  Standing at the corner of Alter and Jefferson looking north the houses in front of you are valued at half a million dollars, behind you to the South you can buy them for the cash in your pocket.  That transition is quite literally crossing one street.  This is not an exaggeration.

It is terrible, and sad, and infuriating all at the same time.  The worst part is that the residents seem completely apathetic to their fate and want no "outsider" help to change it.
2013-08-21 04:59:20 PM
1 votes:

OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.


So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

www.mackinac.org
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway
2013-08-21 04:57:14 PM
1 votes:

darch: FrancoFile: darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.

You build the infrastructure for a population of 2 million, then lose 3/4 of those people in a single generation, and stuff is going to fall apart.

No, no... I get it. I'm not intellectually ignorant as to why it happened. It's just sad that it did.


Yeah, but it was more than ignorance, greed, and corruption.  There's a healthy dose of fear, distrust, jealousy, spite, failure to plan, and most especially hubris that went into that too.

The US auto industry predicated their business plans in the 50s and 60s (to apply to the 60s, 70s, and 80s) on what I'd call a pyramid scheme - or at least the expectation of unending pyramidal growth - with no thought of external factors (oil shock, Japanese producers, decline in US birthrate).  The city of Detroit predicated their plans accordingly, but with a half-generation lag.  Yank the legs out of the GM/Ford/Chrysler pyramid scheme, and the even-more-highly-leveraged city of Detroit scheme comes crashing down.

If the post-riot leadership of Detroit had said "wait a minute, we have white flight and a major hiccup in the US auto industry. We need to be cautious, build up a fiscal reserve, and have alternate plans for the future of the city" then things may have gone a different path.  Remember that the initial oil shocks and the Carter presidency were more than THIRTY YEARS ago. That should have been plenty of time for the city to re-scope its plans and ambitions.
2013-08-21 04:57:06 PM
1 votes:
Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...
2013-08-21 04:55:28 PM
1 votes:

mike_d85: It will remain in name, but the world will go on and remember "the factories of detroit" as it does the "libraries of Alexandria" which were all but lost.


"The steel mills of Pittsburgh" would like to have a word with you...


But then, this is a much smaller city and one that was able to realize that its identifying industry was dying and was then smart enough to reinvent itself.  Adapt or die applies in the macro as much as it does the micro.
2013-08-21 04:48:21 PM
1 votes:

FrancoFile: darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.

You build the infrastructure for a population of 2 million, then lose 3/4 of those people in a single generation, and stuff is going to fall apart.


No, no... I get it. I'm not intellectually ignorant as to why it happened. It's just sad that it did.
2013-08-21 04:34:42 PM
1 votes:

darch: Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?


It's not downtown that's so bad.  It's the square miles of residential and small business areas that look like the aftermath of a Florida hurricane, the Bosnian civil war, and a Michael Bay movie.
2013-08-21 04:21:06 PM
1 votes:
serial_crusher


Propain_az: Thanks white people. Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.


You forgot to add political corruption and not so much unions as the city forgot to diversify.

/Even Wu Tang knows that.
2013-08-21 04:19:25 PM
1 votes:

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


You'd be surprised at how much overlap there is on the venn diagram of people who can't afford their pets vs. people who don't get their pets fixed.
2013-08-21 04:14:58 PM
1 votes:

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


Do you really think that these "macho" people, with their "macho" pit bulls fixed them???

Maybe they should turn infested areas of Detroit into a game hunting park..
2013-08-21 04:11:25 PM
1 votes:

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Really? White people killed Detroit? I know the Kilpatricks sound like a large Irish family from County Cork, but Kwame and Co. are pretty far from pasty.
2013-08-21 04:07:08 PM
1 votes:
Thousands of wild dogs roam Detroit. But occasionally a few are indicted and convicted
2013-08-21 04:01:34 PM
1 votes:
I'm playing Fallout 3 right now, so I'm getting a kick...
 
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