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(Bloomberg)   Thousands of wild dogs roam Detroit. Article includes the adjective "post-apocalyptic"   (bloomberg.com) divider line 100
    More: Scary, Detroit, control unit, postman, humanitarian crisis  
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7279 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 3:57 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 04:00:16 PM
farm4.staticflickr.com
'detroit is rundown shiathole, film at 11'
 
2013-08-21 04:00:51 PM
"Post-apocalyptic Detroit" is a redundant phrase
 
2013-08-21 04:01:34 PM
I'm playing Fallout 3 right now, so I'm getting a kick...
 
2013-08-21 04:01:37 PM
i.imgur.com
VATS helps.
 
2013-08-21 04:02:37 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-08-21 04:03:32 PM
Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.
 
2013-08-21 04:04:03 PM
All it takes is one.
media.monstersandcritics.com
 
2013-08-21 04:05:25 PM
www.terrariaonline.com
 
2013-08-21 04:05:32 PM

Kit Fister: I'm playing Fallout 3 right now, so I'm getting a kick...


From what I've seen in many poorly maintained southern European cities, I get the impression that a real post-apocalyptic wasteland city would have many, many, many more stray dogs than depicted in Fallout 3.
 
2013-08-21 04:06:42 PM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Building crappy cars that people didn't buy, cheap overseas labor and steel had NOTHING to do with it. It was all fear and racism. Thanks Obama.
 
2013-08-21 04:07:08 PM
Thousands of wild dogs roam Detroit. But occasionally a few are indicted and convicted
 
2013-08-21 04:07:45 PM

the_sidewinder: "Post-apocalyptic Detroit" is a redundant phrase


It's more of an oxymoron. Detroit would have to improve before it could be considered post-apocalyptic.
 
2013-08-21 04:07:53 PM
There's an estimate out there of 650,000 or so feral cats as well.

But I guess this all means that the City of Detroit has gone [drumroll please...] to the dogs.

\Here all week.
 
2013-08-21 04:09:22 PM
Wow. That's ruff.
 
2013-08-21 04:09:55 PM

Feel_the_velvet: Thousands of wild dogs roam Detroit. But occasionally a few are indicted and convicted


Often, they're voted into office, first.
 
2013-08-21 04:11:25 PM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Really? White people killed Detroit? I know the Kilpatricks sound like a large Irish family from County Cork, but Kwame and Co. are pretty far from pasty.
 
2013-08-21 04:12:53 PM
During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.
 
2013-08-21 04:12:58 PM

justinguarini4ever: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

Really? White people killed Detroit? I know the Kilpatricks sound like a large Irish family from County Cork, but Kwame and Co. are pretty far from pasty.


Talkin' 'bout white flight, my brother.  White Flight.  They left and took they money with them.
 
2013-08-21 04:13:24 PM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-08-21 04:13:47 PM

freewill: Kit Fister: I'm playing Fallout 3 right now, so I'm getting a kick...

From what I've seen in many poorly maintained southern European cities, I get the impression that a real post-apocalyptic wasteland city would have many, many, many more stray dogs than depicted in Fallout 3.


They ate most of the dogs & cats after the war since they were easy to catch, think fallout 2 talked about it
 
2013-08-21 04:14:22 PM
Did the dingo eat your pension?
 
2013-08-21 04:14:25 PM
"The dogs were having a pool party," said Lapez Moore, 30. "We went in and fished them out."

Wouldn't it be "dogged them out?"
 
2013-08-21 04:14:58 PM

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


Do you really think that these "macho" people, with their "macho" pit bulls fixed them???

Maybe they should turn infested areas of Detroit into a game hunting park..
 
2013-08-21 04:17:03 PM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


You spelled unions wrong.
 
2013-08-21 04:19:23 PM

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


when i was 17 we went to laredo, mexico and i noticed that the large number of stray dogs all looked the same. like a generic large chihuahua type dog. all beige.
it made me feel like something bad was going on and i didn't even understand exactly what it meant.
 
2013-08-21 04:19:25 PM

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


You'd be surprised at how much overlap there is on the venn diagram of people who can't afford their pets vs. people who don't get their pets fixed.
 
2013-08-21 04:21:06 PM
serial_crusher


Propain_az: Thanks white people. Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.


You forgot to add political corruption and not so much unions as the city forgot to diversify.

/Even Wu Tang knows that.
 
2013-08-21 04:21:24 PM

AllUpInYa: Maybe they should turn infested areas of Detroit into a game hunting park..



Damn, that's racist. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
2013-08-21 04:21:52 PM
One of my pleasant childhood memories is of my father turning my dog Bullet loose in a dusty field outside of Killeen, Texas 'so he could run and play with all the other doggies.' The last I saw him he was jumping out the back door of that '47 Pontiac.
 
2013-08-21 04:22:50 PM
Not to be confused with winter articles about abandoned pets freezing to death and puppies being seen eating their dead siblings
 
2013-08-21 04:23:26 PM
Don't worry, Detroit will be coming to your town soon.  It's the template by which public services will soon not be delivered.
 
2013-08-21 04:25:20 PM

serial_crusher: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism  Unions are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.

 
2013-08-21 04:30:22 PM
i1.ytimg.com
We have a lot of fun on the racetrack, but today we need to talk about something serious...
 
2013-08-21 04:32:45 PM
Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?
 
2013-08-21 04:33:48 PM
Michigan.  What's the deal  with that?!

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-21 04:34:15 PM
For Me To Poop On

i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-08-21 04:34:42 PM

darch: Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?


It's not downtown that's so bad.  It's the square miles of residential and small business areas that look like the aftermath of a Florida hurricane, the Bosnian civil war, and a Michael Bay movie.
 
2013-08-21 04:38:07 PM

darch: Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?


Serious answer.

Yes.

The city is a wasteland with the exception of the 1/2 mile radius from the River to the stadiums, and a few neighborhoods where the residents hold their own like feudal estates against the lawlessness.  Everything you have heard is really that bad.
 
2013-08-21 04:39:28 PM
farm6.staticflickr.com
Stay off my lawn
 
2013-08-21 04:40:52 PM

FrancoFile: darch: Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?

It's not downtown that's so bad.  It's the square miles of residential and small business areas that look like the aftermath of a Florida hurricane, the Bosnian civil war, and a Michael Bay movie.


Speaking of Michael Bay movies, why aren't they making a Robocop TV show out there?  The sets are pre-built, they can blow up all the sh*t they want, and it would give some of the locals jobs.  They could fix up one of the delapidated libraries as a home office and have the single most baller production office in the U.S.  That's right, I said it, most baller.
 
2013-08-21 04:42:07 PM
Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.
 
2013-08-21 04:45:37 PM

darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.


You build the infrastructure for a population of 2 million, then lose 3/4 of those people in a single generation, and stuff is going to fall apart.
 
2013-08-21 04:48:21 PM

FrancoFile: darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.

You build the infrastructure for a population of 2 million, then lose 3/4 of those people in a single generation, and stuff is going to fall apart.


No, no... I get it. I'm not intellectually ignorant as to why it happened. It's just sad that it did.
 
2013-08-21 04:49:46 PM
danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.


www.mackinac.org
 
2013-08-21 04:50:40 PM
up-ship.com

Obligatory?
 
2013-08-21 04:51:15 PM

darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.


It's no different than the gold rush boom cities that appeared in the southwest, it just progressed over decades rather than years.

Detroit out-grew it's need and a corrupt system destroyed itself.  It taught the world valuable lessons in industrialization, it's final lessons before entering the atomic age.  It taught us the remarkable lessons of efficiancy from Henry Ford, of marketing and passion from General Motors, of creativity and engineering from Chrysler.  It's workers taught us the value of fair wages.  It gave us our modern work week and showed that the country could support a war with hard labor when needed.  It experienced a life it never warranted and became the center of art and music in the nation for several years.  It was a city that came in it's time and only truely existed in a microchasm and will not be forgotten.  It will remain in name, but the world will go on and remember "the factories of detroit" as it does the "libraries of Alexandria" which were all but lost.

I assure you, in 150 years the ruins will be a tourist destination, but right now it's just a shiathole filled with crackheads and strays.
 
2013-08-21 04:54:23 PM
Detroit.  Nuke the entire site from orbit - It's the only way to be sure.
 
2013-08-21 04:55:28 PM

mike_d85: It will remain in name, but the world will go on and remember "the factories of detroit" as it does the "libraries of Alexandria" which were all but lost.


"The steel mills of Pittsburgh" would like to have a word with you...


But then, this is a much smaller city and one that was able to realize that its identifying industry was dying and was then smart enough to reinvent itself.  Adapt or die applies in the macro as much as it does the micro.
 
2013-08-21 04:56:54 PM
blame Roger Smith
 
2013-08-21 04:57:06 PM
Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...
 
2013-08-21 04:57:14 PM

darch: FrancoFile: darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.

You build the infrastructure for a population of 2 million, then lose 3/4 of those people in a single generation, and stuff is going to fall apart.

No, no... I get it. I'm not intellectually ignorant as to why it happened. It's just sad that it did.


Yeah, but it was more than ignorance, greed, and corruption.  There's a healthy dose of fear, distrust, jealousy, spite, failure to plan, and most especially hubris that went into that too.

The US auto industry predicated their business plans in the 50s and 60s (to apply to the 60s, 70s, and 80s) on what I'd call a pyramid scheme - or at least the expectation of unending pyramidal growth - with no thought of external factors (oil shock, Japanese producers, decline in US birthrate).  The city of Detroit predicated their plans accordingly, but with a half-generation lag.  Yank the legs out of the GM/Ford/Chrysler pyramid scheme, and the even-more-highly-leveraged city of Detroit scheme comes crashing down.

If the post-riot leadership of Detroit had said "wait a minute, we have white flight and a major hiccup in the US auto industry. We need to be cautious, build up a fiscal reserve, and have alternate plans for the future of the city" then things may have gone a different path.  Remember that the initial oil shocks and the Carter presidency were more than THIRTY YEARS ago. That should have been plenty of time for the city to re-scope its plans and ambitions.
 
2013-08-21 04:58:57 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-21 04:59:20 PM

OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.


So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

www.mackinac.org
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway
 
2013-08-21 05:01:15 PM

darch: Everything you have heard is really that bad.

Really. Wow. How... sad. I can't really come up with a better descriptor for it. This is an American city we're talking about here. A city with a proud legacy. And it's been allowed to, through a combination of ignorance, greed and corruption, rot-almost literally like a post-apocolyptic science-fiction movie.


It's a surreal experience actually.

You start in what most people would consider a normal middle class neighborhood (Warren, Dearborn, Southfield) and head towards the city.  There is NEVER a question of when you have crossed the border.  The buildings are immediately dilapidated, properties abandoned or burned out, landscapes completely at the whim of nature.  As you get deeper in, you experience the local "culture".  Hookers and drug deals going on right on the street corners as school children try to walk by and ignore what's going on around them.

Then you hit ground zero.  Industrial properties shuttered, old office buildings abandoned, entire city blocks with their properties raised with packs of wild dogs roaming through, the old train station (a formerly beautiful building) hulking like the husk of some dead giant.  There is a palpable feeling of neglect, hopelessness, and desperation.

Then comes downtown, a small bright vibrant community that looks like it doesn't belong there.  Stadiums, theaters, restaurants, offices, parks, all feeling frantically like a bastion against the darkness just outside the glow of the streetlights.

That isn't a metaphor either.  Most of the 40% of the city's working streetlights are in this radius.  As you cross that boundary and head back out towards the suburbs you move back through concentric circles of destruction.  Ground zero, the deep neighborhoods, then the boundary territory.  Then, on the East side, the strangest thing happens.  You enter Grosse Pointe.  Standing at the corner of Alter and Jefferson looking north the houses in front of you are valued at half a million dollars, behind you to the South you can buy them for the cash in your pocket.  That transition is quite literally crossing one street.  This is not an exaggeration.

It is terrible, and sad, and infuriating all at the same time.  The worst part is that the residents seem completely apathetic to their fate and want no "outsider" help to change it.
 
2013-08-21 05:01:56 PM

darch: Serious question here- I know there's a lot of hyperbole and snark to wade through but... is Detroit REALLY that bad. Like, would I drive downtown and drawn in a horrified hiss of breath, or would I simply hang my head at how sad it is?


Good question, and my answer is only half-good, so bear with me.

If you were down doing something in Detroit or the surroundings, it would just be kind of sad. Lots of beautiful churches or gas stations or little bungalows all in a row, depending on where you are. Some graffiti. Some boarded up doors. Some sagging rooflines, etc. But that's what you see from the *highway* on your way to somewhere that's probably not half bad because hey... it's clearly bringing in tourists. You probably wouldn't think it was much worse than the freeway view of any other major city.

The pictures I see always seem kind of one-of-a-kind. "Gosh. This building is falling down. Isn't that sad." I get the same impression when driving when I see the massive complex at I75 and I94 (I think), and every single window is fogged/broken/dark. But I don't think that even conveys what's going on beyond what you can see from your car nor what it feels like.

One example: My son and I were looking at broken down houses along the freeway as we drove home from the Science Center (which isn't Detroit either, but bear with me). He was excited by how badly damaged they were (again; no smoking husks. Just falling rooflines, fallen porches, broken windows). I thought it was cool until I noticed that people still live in those houses. And some of them probably aren't supposed to be there, some don't have power, water, etc. Some are probably crack houses. God knows what the rest are.

In summary: Even from what little I know, ruin porn pictures don't convey the real "yikes" of the Detroit suburbs, but you probably will never see them in person either.

With respect to TFA, even the Oakland county animal shelter, which is way far away is something like 90% "pitbull-like" breeds. Walking through there made me want to shoot people.
 
2013-08-21 05:05:37 PM

Kit Fister: I'm playing Fallout 3 right now, so I'm getting a kick...


Sock Ruh Tease: [i.imgur.com image 550x425]
VATS helps.


I am exceedingly pleased with these posts.

/Fark, Fark never changes.
 
2013-08-21 05:06:53 PM

OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.


[www.mackinac.org image 487x613]


Awwww, aren't you cute. Did you think of that all by yourself
 
2013-08-21 05:10:39 PM

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


I think Jeff Goldblum would disagree with you, as well as the animal control authorities from the article dealing with this madness.
 
2013-08-21 05:14:55 PM
If the city provides the ammo, I'll provide the guns and the time. Win win.
 
2013-08-21 05:17:13 PM

serial_crusher: mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.

You'd be surprised at how much overlap there is on the venn diagram of people who can't afford their pets vs. people who don't get their pets fixed.


Here, in Hawaii the humane society works with you to help pay for spay/neuter. What gets me are the people who pay to get their dogs ears cropped, but don't spend the money on getting their pet fixed, or having vaccines up to date!
 
2013-08-21 05:17:21 PM

MBooda: OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.

So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

[www.mackinac.org image 600x477]
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway


Why would it have to be a satellte? Aerial surveillance is far older than satelites.
 
2013-08-21 05:20:06 PM

OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.


Isn't that more like how Libertarians would run it?
 
2013-08-21 05:21:29 PM

jaybeezey: MBooda: OscarTamerz: [danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com image 500x602]

And just to show that it's not a faked photo here are 2 aerial views 54 years apart.

So, which satellite took that 1949 picture?

[www.mackinac.org image 600x477]
/the nsa controls all those cameras anyway

Why would it have to be a satellte? Aerial surveillance is far older than satelites.


The USDA has been using aerial photography since 1937. Mostly of farmland though.
 
2013-08-21 05:24:55 PM
Just get a motivated people to go through Detroit like they did in Bangladesh...
Big, 10 wheeled trucks, lots of guys with long dog-catching poles/nooses.
As soon as you have one pinned down, another guy runs up with a fatal dose of whatever in a syringe...
And boom...after only about a minute of dying...the farking dog is dead, tossed in the truck, and one less thing for people to worry about!
What's wrong with that???
 
2013-08-21 05:49:58 PM
Housing is cheap. There is an existing infrastructure. It's a transportation hub.
What is keeping business away?
 
2013-08-21 05:55:28 PM
A wild pack of family dogs came runnin' through the yard
As my little sister played, the dogs took her away
And I guess she was eaten up ok, yeah she was eaten up ok
 
2013-08-21 06:00:15 PM

Vectron: Housing is cheap. There is an existing infrastructure. It's a transportation hub.
What is keeping business away?


Insanely high property taxes.

img850.imageshack.us

The city has liens on most property for back taxes, so even houses or buildings that are "free" have enormous liabilities behind them.  Instead of forgiving those liens to get people to move in and develop an area, the city council sits on their ass and complains about racism.
 
2013-08-21 06:04:01 PM

Lsherm: Vectron: Housing is cheap. There is an existing infrastructure. It's a transportation hub.
What is keeping business away?

Insanely high property taxes.

[img850.imageshack.us image 656x425]

The city has liens on most property for back taxes, so even houses or buildings that are "free" have enormous liabilities behind them.  Instead of forgiving those liens to get people to move in and develop an area, the city council sits on their ass and complains about racism.


Yet they get voted back in every election.
 
2013-08-21 06:26:57 PM
This is why I had a great idea for a video game: Urban Decay. Set in an alternate universe where the 2008 financial crisis was even more devastating, your character must survive in a post-apocalyptic Detroit overrun with warring drug cartels. You need food, water and shelter, and avoid a variety of illnesses. Drink from contaminated water and you could get cholera, which causes you to dehydrate faster. Getting bitten by a rabid dog will give you rabies, so you need to find a rabies shot before it advances.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 06:33:41 PM

alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...


You forgot about pension and benefits.  You couldn't just pay a couple guys $25/hour ($50K/year ain't bad for picking up dogs).  You'd need to pay for medical, dental, FICA, and their pension. And then the union would demand they earn $65/hour because they want the city to go further in debt and make it even harder to get blood from a stone. Though they'd run some bullshiat about "livable wage" and whatever.  And then there's likely overtime pay, weekend pay, shift differential, and so on.

One thing a government worker knows everything about is the various ways to get paid.
 
2013-08-21 06:47:26 PM
Forgive the partial thread jack. My wife and I were talking about what can be done in Detroit, besides set it in fire. My thought was, clear out all of the empty, burned out buildings and start an urban farm of acres and acres of medicinal marijuana and hemp. Just think about the increase to the tax base... The population would be able to get jobs, money would flow. Detroit could come back from the hellhole that it is now.
 
2013-08-21 06:52:47 PM
Can they convert it into farmland? It is okay land right?
 
2013-08-21 06:53:15 PM

dpzum1: serial_crusher: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism  Unions are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.


It's complicated.

1) Black people move north because factory jobs (even with Northern personal racism) are better than Southern sharecropping (That belt of poverty draped across the Deep South is surprisingly black).
2) Northern Personal racism causes segregation, poverty, low education, etc, etc, etc.
3) The richest working-class in the country works in the factories.
4) The factories start moving out of Detroit into the burbs and (mostly later) automation starts shedding jobs.  This means that a lot of black people get laid off because of First Hired, Last Fired.
5) The Detroit area builds a lot of cars and freeways.
6) The richest working-class in the country uses those freeways to move to the suburbs, where more and more often the jobs are.  (Honestly, they're still probably the best-value suburbs in the country in terms of wages/cost of living)

Now this is not bad.  It's a fairly bog-standard path followed by pretty much every single Midwestern city, and at worst you're Chicago or Cleveland, and at best, you're Pittsburg.  Lots of cities did this, lots of cities adapted, lots of cities survived.

7) Riots.

Still not bad yet.  Lots of cities had riots.

8) Because it's easier to flee than fight (Seriously, it's really, really easy.  The Lodge is a wonderful road), white people flee out to yards and trees and better schools and lower taxes.
9) Coleman Young gets elected.  He's a racist, corrupt farker (And I apologize to all farkers).  Him and his cronies proceed to loot the city, and chase all remaining white people out of the city.  Since as a result of centuries of segregation and discrimination, white people are also more likely to be rich and educated people, the wealth leaves.
10) The city is screwed.  The population left, the wealth left, Chicago-style corruption taken to the extreme is NORMAL.  Every time someone tries to help, the result is "FARK WHITEY".  Archer tries, but the mayor lacks power.
11) Finally, the black middle class says "Fark This" and leaves.

Then you get the sprawling suburbs as well as the abandoned core.
 
2013-08-21 06:59:45 PM

alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...


Yeah lets not let the fact that only part of that 1.6 mil/year is salaries while the rest is to keep their trucks running, pay for the facility they house the captured dogs in, food for the dogs (unless you are sadistic and want to watch a bunch of caged animals starve), medical care for the dogs, etc.
 
2013-08-21 07:03:42 PM

haolegirl: serial_crusher: mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.

You'd be surprised at how much overlap there is on the venn diagram of people who can't afford their pets vs. people who don't get their pets fixed.

Here, in Hawaii the humane society works with you to help pay for spay/neuter. What gets me are the people who pay to get their dogs ears cropped, but don't spend the money on getting their pet fixed, or having vaccines up to date!


Per a study done by Alley Cat Allies, over 90% of Americans earning $35K or more have already spayed or neutered their pets. Only about half of families earning less that $35k have spayed or neutered.
 
2013-08-21 07:04:01 PM

Rawhead Rex: Just get a motivated people to go through Detroit like they did in Bangladesh...
Big, 10 wheeled trucks, lots of guys with long dog-catching poles/nooses.
As soon as you have one pinned down, another guy runs up with a fatal dose of whatever in a syringe...
And boom...after only about a minute of dying...the farking dog is dead, tossed in the truck, and one less thing for people to worry about!
What's wrong with that???


Better yet, why not organize weekend hunting parties in an urban setting.  Mark out an area of the city and invite anyone that has a gun (which is probably most of the people left in Detroit) to come and have a family fun filled weekend hunting wild dogs.  Move the area around every couple of weeks so people have new areas to explore looking for dogs to shoot.  Bonus prizes for the most dogs killed.
 
2013-08-21 07:05:14 PM

another day off: Forgive the partial thread jack. My wife and I were talking about what can be done in Detroit, besides set it in fire. My thought was, clear out all of the empty, burned out buildings and start an urban farm of acres and acres of medicinal marijuana and hemp. Just think about the increase to the tax base... The population would be able to get jobs, money would flow. Detroit could come back from the hellhole that it is now.


I read Detroit: An Autopsy - written by a journalist who grew up in Detroit, left and moved back, and then left again.  There are a few problems with your idea:

1)  The city doesn't own that land.  They could take some via Eminent Domain, but not all of it.  So there's not enough money to build a farm.
2)  Generations of students coming out of Detroit Public schools are so stupid it highly unlikely anyone in Detroit would qualify for farm work, but it doesn't matter: because,
3)  Outside of a small area in downtown, no one left in Detroit has any interest in working at all.  They're all about the hustle to get their next fix.

That city is so thoroughly ruined that nothing will save it beyond incorporating pieces of it into neighboring counties.  They have no tax base.  The largest employer is the city government.  It needs to shrink geographically by half, but that would cost billions the city doesn't have.  The political class has been stealing from the citizens for so long it's impossible for the city to function.
 
2013-08-21 07:12:00 PM
Wild dogs are a type of dog that has never been domesticated. These are feral dogs who had domestic ancestors. These dogs aren't nearly as bad as wild dogs.

This is still depressing for thousands of reasons.
 
2013-08-21 07:14:20 PM
Michigan should sell Detroit to the province of Ontario.


.......We need some place to open a new landfill.
 
2013-08-21 07:14:42 PM

another day off: Forgive the partial thread jack. My wife and I were talking about what can be done in Detroit, besides set it in fire. My thought was, clear out all of the empty, burned out buildings and start an urban farm of acres and acres of medicinal marijuana and hemp. Just think about the increase to the tax base... The population would be able to get jobs, money would flow. Detroit could come back from the hellhole that it is now.


MadSkillz: Can they convert it into farmland? It is okay land right?


Two problems.
1) No neighborhood is completely empty.  Gonna take a lot of New Haven-level eminent domain rulings or $$ incentives to move those last holdouts into a cleaner, denser core, where incidentally the city can provide lights, trash pickup, water, police, etc. services more efficiently. But that's being talked about and worked on by lots of conventional and unconventional urban planning/architecture/sociology/etc. folks.
2) It'll take a lot of work to clear all the concrete/asphalt/metal/wood/stone rubble out to get back to farmable soil. Fill in the basements, etc.

Plus the land might have lots of lead, oil residue, HIV-positive syringes, etc.  Good luck getting an organic certification for that. OK, that's 3 problems.

And land that's been paved over for 50 years isn't exactly fertile topsoil - very few of the necessary worms, beetles, micro-organisms.

Among our problems...  Wait, I'll come in again.
 
2013-08-21 07:28:42 PM
So... this is a true lost cause then? Literally no hope?
 
2013-08-21 07:31:33 PM

silverjets: alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...

Yeah lets not let the fact that only part of that 1.6 mil/year is salaries while the rest is to keep their trucks running, pay for the facility they house the captured dogs in, food for the dogs (unless you are sadistic and want to watch a bunch of caged animals starve), medical care for the dogs, etc.


Sorry bloated government apologist #1: The pound takes the dogs (rtfa) and the city is overdue on paying them... gas on r trucks, even when the workers are likely using them off the clock couldn't be more than 400k miles / 10mpg is 160k in gas per year even if you use the most bloated possible mileage numbers and the worst mileage I can imagine a pickup with a cage on it getting. Likely half that. Leases on trucks couldn't be more than 12k each per year for the hold plated edition from the mayor's brother in law. Even using insane numbers, it's still not a large fraction of 1.6mil.
And medical care? Rtfa: they euthanize them. Even if it's not actually "wasted" per-se, money in the hands of government, especially local government, seems to be worth about a quarter on the dollar in terms of what we get for it.

Let's just say I don't have a lot of faith that they are spending the money well.
 
2013-08-21 07:33:46 PM

darch: So... this is a true lost cause then? Literally no hope?


Hope for what?

Detroit as it was in the 50s?  Yeah, that's not gonna happen
Detroit following in the footsteps of Pittsburg?  Gonna take a lot of political will, and at minimum a takeover by the state (potentially backed by the feds), but possible.
Detroit as Canada's Tijuana? Sadly all too possible.
 
2013-08-21 07:38:03 PM
If it could work in the wasteland that was Pittsburgh, why not Detroit?
 
2013-08-21 07:42:32 PM

meyerkev: dpzum1: serial_crusher: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism  Unions are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.

It's complicated.

1) Black people move north because factory jobs (even with Northern personal racism) are better than Southern sharecropping (That belt of poverty draped across the Deep South is surprisingly black).
2) Northern Personal racism causes segregation, poverty, low education, etc, etc, etc.
3) The richest working-class in the country works in the factories.
4) The factories start moving out of Detroit into the burbs and (mostly later) automation starts shedding jobs.  This means that a lot of black people get laid off because of First Hired, Last Fired.
5) The Detroit area builds a lot of cars and freeways.
6) The richest working-class in the country uses those freeways to move to the suburbs, where more and more often the jobs are.  (Honestly, they're still probably the best-value suburbs in the country in terms of wages/cost of living)

Now this is not bad.  It's a fairly bog-standard path followed by pretty much every single Midwestern city, and at worst you're Chicago or Cleveland, and at best, you're Pittsburg.  Lots of cities did this, lots of cities adapted, lots of cities survived.

7) Riots.

Still not bad yet.  Lots of cities had riots.

8) Because it's easier to flee than fight (Seriously, it's really, really easy.  The Lodge is a wonderful road), white people flee out to yards and trees and better schools and lower taxes.
9) Coleman Young gets elected.  He's a racist, corrupt farker (And I apologize to all farkers).  Him and his cronies proceed to loot the city, and chase all remaining white people out of the city.  Since as a result of centuries of segregation and discrimination, white people are also more likely to be rich and educated people, the wealth leaves.
10) The city is screwed.  The population left, the wealth left, Chicago-style corruption taken to the extreme is NORMAL.  Every time someone t ...


As a former Detroiter to someone who is obviously a current/former Detroit...

THIS
 
2013-08-21 07:47:09 PM

FrancoFile: darch: So... this is a true lost cause then? Literally no hope?

Hope for what?

Detroit as it was in the 50s?  Yeah, that's not gonna happen
Detroit following in the footsteps of Pittsburg?  Gonna take a lot of political will, and at minimum a takeover by the state (potentially backed by the feds), but possible.
Detroit as Canada's Tijuana? Sadly all too possible.


Canada's Tijuana is Montreal, there are no contenders and I doubt there will ever be.
 
2013-08-21 08:01:11 PM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


Dats raciss!  You saying black folks can't run a city without white folks helping them out?
 
2013-08-21 08:17:27 PM

Teufel Ritter: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

Dats raciss!  You saying black folks can't run a city without white folks helping them out?


click here
 
2013-08-21 08:20:15 PM

wee: alex10294: Actually, fta, animal control has 4 officers and spends 1.6mil/year. Seems like rampant government overspending may have something to do with their problems. That's 400k per guy with a truck. I personally will take that money, double the force and can almost guarantee 10x the dogs off the street. Works like that for everything else they spent that 18 billion on...

You forgot about pension and benefits.  You couldn't just pay a couple guys $25/hour ($50K/year ain't bad for picking up dogs).  You'd need to pay for medical, dental, FICA, and their pension. And then the union would demand they earn $65/hour because they want the city to go further in debt and make it even harder to get blood from a stone. Though they'd run some bullshiat about "livable wage" and whatever.  And then there's likely overtime pay, weekend pay, shift differential, and so on.

One thing a government worker knows everything about is the various ways to get paid.


Fark, give me $100K and I'll come on over with my silenced Ruger 10/22 for a year.  I'll even buy the ammo.  I figure that the other dogs will take care of the carcasses.
 
2013-08-21 08:21:18 PM
World War D.
 
2013-08-21 08:29:18 PM
 
2013-08-21 08:34:28 PM

Rawhead Rex: Just get a motivated people to go through Detroit like they did in Bangladesh...
Big, 10 wheeled trucks, lots of guys with long dog-catching poles/nooses.
As soon as you have one pinned down, another guy runs up with a fatal dose of whatever in a syringe...
And boom...after only about a minute of dying...the farking dog is dead, tossed in the truck, and one less thing for people to worry about!
What's wrong with that???


Harvesting the bodies and Soylent Grey is canines.
 
2013-08-21 08:51:08 PM

Rawhead Rex: Just get a motivated people to go through Detroit like they did in Bangladesh...
Big, 10 wheeled trucks, lots of guys with long dog-catching poles/nooses.
As soon as you have one pinned down, another guy runs up with a fatal dose of whatever in a syringe...
And boom...after only about a minute of dying...the farking dog is dead, tossed in the truck, and one less thing for people to worry about!
What's wrong with that???


Because the people are more deserving of it than the dogs.

/fark chicago
//could always just let the dogs eat the rest of the residents too
 
2013-08-21 11:23:42 PM

Lsherm: 1) The city doesn't own that land. They could take some via Eminent Domain, but not all of it. So there's not enough money to build a farm.


Fair market value on those plots is approximately zero. Why not use Eminent Domain?
 
2013-08-22 07:59:13 AM

mr0x: During the foreclosure crisis, people in the Detroit suburbs were driving to Detroit and letting their pets go. They were hoping they would go feral and live rather than taken to be put down in the shelter.

It's not post apocalyptic yet because those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing. In 20-30 years, the problem will solve itself.


Yeah the folks who couldnt afford a 10$ bag of kibble had 150$ for a spay/neuter.  Good investigating there Inspecter Gadget.
 
2013-08-22 10:07:08 AM

serial_crusher: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

You spelled unions wrong.


You spelled "executive pay increased while workers per car decreased" wrong.
 
2013-08-22 10:51:40 AM

mr0x:  those dogs are breed dogs and not general mutts. They are probably all fixed and so, even though they are forming packs and such, they are not reproducing.


You're far too optimistic about people and their animals. Even if 1% of those dogs aren't fixed, they're breeding like crazy, producing fertile offspring, and mixing up their breed lines.

Dogs are pretty resilient. I'm quite interested in the outcome from a curiosity perspective.
 
2013-08-22 11:14:56 AM

Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.


I lived in Detroit for 50 years, I finally left - not because of black people, but because every other house was being broken into while I was at work.  We would call the police and they would show up 4 to 5 hours later if at all.  When we called 911 about people pulling aluminum siding off the neighbors house while they were at work, they wouldn't even send the police out. My car was stolen, they tell me they don't send the police out anymore!  You have to go to the station yourself.  Had to take 2 buses just to get to the police station to report my car stolen!   Then about 2 months later I get mail from the impound yard that they are going to dispose of my car.  It was found the same day it was stolen and no one from the police department bothered to call me!

And believe me, I do not blame the police, I blame all the people who have sucked the resources dry, like slackers who never pay taxes, corruption within the city counsel, etc.

And if that is not enough for you, here are a couple of really good reasons that Detroit went downhill:

Coleman Young
Kwame Kilpatrick

And I have worked at Wayne State University for 15 years and the neighborhood is thriving...know why?  We have our own police force.
And we have people in charge who are held accountable for their actions.
 
2013-08-22 01:34:27 PM

Propain_az: justinguarini4ever: Propain_az: Thanks white people.  Your fear and racism are what killed Detroit.

Really? White people killed Detroit? I know the Kilpatricks sound like a large Irish family from County Cork, but Kwame and Co. are pretty far from pasty.

Talkin' 'bout white flight, my brother.  White Flight.  They left and took they money with them.


Well... congratulations. You now have an entire city free from the oppressive thumb of Whitey. You now have ZERO excuses or white  people to blame for the city's continued spiral into chaos. So, make this an opportunity. The rest of America recognized (and recognizes) that to live here you must seize opportunities and make use of them yourself. The Italians, Irish, Scottish, Asian, and even Mexican communities have all succeeded at acclimation (in a much shorter time), even when they faced as much or more racist discrimination. The only difference is that they don't think (as a group) that anybody OWES them anything. So change the entitlement mindset of your community, seize the day, CREATE YOUR OWN FUTURE. In the process you will earn the "Respect" your community desperately craves, and will build an empire to rival the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts.

/We are all Americans.
//Not any other hyphenated nationality.
///I am not a Saxon-Scotch American. Just an American.
 
2013-08-22 05:57:53 PM
Every. FARK. Detroit. Thread. Ever;

"The car companies left!  White people are racists!  Blacks are poor!"

Completely ignoring that the car companies are still there, Whites were even more racist back in the day
and Blacks were even poorer and had it much harder back then.

Yet despite all that, 70% of Black kids weren't born out of wed lock, that 50% of Black males weren't in prison
or on parole, Detroit didn't average 400 murders per year, etc. despite Blacks facing open and institutionalized
racism and having far fewer opportunities to improve their lives then they do toady.

LBJ's "Great Society" destroyed Black-American society.
 
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