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(Some Guy)   Step 1: Develop the most anticipated game of 2014. Step 2: Announce it will cost players $60 to buy and $180 a year in subscription fees. Step 3: Think about whether you can still get people interested in Fallout 4   (gamestar.de) divider line 247
    More: Stupid, ESO, Elder Scrolls, The Old Republic, subscribers, PvP, customer support, video game producer, premium segment  
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8348 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Aug 2013 at 4:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 01:34:09 PM  
I love Elder Scrolls. I would love the online game. But $14.99 a month? nope, sorry.
 
2013-08-21 01:36:25 PM  
I hate MMOs.  If I want to be social I'll go outside.
 
2013-08-21 01:38:09 PM  
You can still get people interested in Fallout 4, you just need two things:

1) The promise that it won't be a subscription-based online game

2) A FREAKING ANNOUNCEMENT FOR FALLOUT 4

/And what Dinki said
 
2013-08-21 01:47:48 PM  
The man is delusional.
 
2013-08-21 01:53:15 PM  
While I am saddened, I can't say that I'm surprised.

Hey Bethesda,

FYI, PC gamers with Skyrim have been enjoying the fruits of the mod community for quite some time now, complete with several in-depth questlines and of course the unbelievable user-made add-on, Falskaar, not to mention thousands and thousands of other mods for graphic tweaks, clothing, armor, spells, weapons, you name it.

And they have been enjoying all that for free.

I really want you to think hard about how these gamers (myself included) are going to react to a monthly fee.

Regards,

Rev.K
 
2013-08-21 01:53:38 PM  
Will I be able to pickpocket other players? What about stealing from NPCs in general - will it be a free for all with the first person getting to them wiping them out? Will chests in my house be more or less limitless? And for that matter, will I get a house, or will all characters share a phased house  of sorts or will it be a bank?

So many questions.
 
2013-08-21 01:56:53 PM  
Welcome to one of the reasons I never got into World of Warcraft. And/or MMOs in general. I even gave up XBL because I can play PS3 games online for free.
 
2013-08-21 02:00:43 PM  
That up-front cost really fries my ass.

You're paying $60 for your first month of play and then you have to pay $14.99 a month after that.

That f*cking sucks. For $15 a month the f*cking game should be free.
 
2013-08-21 02:01:11 PM  
github.com

Free to play MMOs have a tendency to suck. $15/month is pretty steep though.

naughtyrev: Will I be able to pickpocket other players? What about stealing from NPCs in general - will it be a free for all with the first person getting to them wiping them out? Will chests in my house be more or less limitless? And for that matter, will I get a house, or will all characters share a phased house of sorts or will it be a bank?

So many questions.


No. Probably not. No houses.
 
2013-08-21 02:18:07 PM  
Half Life 3?

Sorry, not paying for an online game.  I understand the internet has all sorts of cool stuff on it and there may be decent multi-player online games.  But A)  I don't want to have to deal with playing with trolls from around the world.  B)  I don't want to have to compete with the grinders for any piece of good drop.  I may devote more time than I should to any given game, but I'm not worrying about beating a 12 year old gold miner so I can finish the game.
 
2013-08-21 02:29:15 PM  
This just pisses me off more and more with the more I think about it.

Zenimax said we want people to do what they want, including solo questing, at their own pace and have everything open to them. Hundreds of hours of gaming pleasure.

Ok, so let's think about that.

Thus far, I've put about 325 hours into Skyrim, including Dragonborn and Dawnguard. I bought Skyrim on release day for $64, Dragonborn and Dawnguard were $15 apiece, so my total spend on Skyrim with those add-ons is $94 and I've been playing it (admittedly slowly) since Nov.11 2011.

325 hours for $94 = $0.29/hr

With Elder Scrolls Online, I'll shell out $60 on release day and get a month of game play.

Then I'll shell out $14.99 per month after that.

$60 + $14.99 + $14.99 = $89.98 = 4 months of ESO gameplay.

So in roughly four months with Elder Scrolls Online, I will have spent as much as I spent on all of Skyrim including Dragonborn and Dawnguard that carried me for over a year and a half.


ESO is going to have to be nothing less than the greatest RPG in human history for me to justify this cost.
 
2013-08-21 02:51:14 PM  

Rev.K: This just pisses me off more and more with the more I think about it.

Zenimax said we want people to do what they want, including solo questing, at their own pace and have everything open to them. Hundreds of hours of gaming pleasure.

Ok, so let's think about that.

Thus far, I've put about 325 hours into Skyrim, including Dragonborn and Dawnguard. I bought Skyrim on release day for $64, Dragonborn and Dawnguard were $15 apiece, so my total spend on Skyrim with those add-ons is $94 and I've been playing it (admittedly slowly) since Nov.11 2011.

325 hours for $94 = $0.29/hr

With Elder Scrolls Online, I'll shell out $60 on release day and get a month of game play.

Then I'll shell out $14.99 per month after that.

$60 + $14.99 + $14.99 = $89.98 = 4 months of ESO gameplay.

So in roughly four months with Elder Scrolls Online, I will have spent as much as I spent on all of Skyrim including Dragonborn and Dawnguard that carried me for over a year and a half.


ESO is going to have to be nothing less than the greatest RPG in human history for me to justify this cost.


I agree, and I just can't see it having enough of the features that most people like about ES making it in without everything devolving into a horrible cycle of trolling. By default, the creativity the series allows in the single player game has to be removed in a lot of ways. The only really positive thing I see coming out of this is that they will have devoted time and resources to developing zones that could be used for future single player games in the series.
 
2013-08-21 02:59:42 PM  
I can think of very, very few things that would make me not buy Fallout 4. It's pretty much a blank check scenario for me.
 
2013-08-21 03:17:00 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I can think of very, very few things that would make me not buy Fallout 4. It's pretty much a blank check scenario for me.


Subscription would do it for me, probably, but otherwise I largely stand ready to buy it immediately.
 
2013-08-21 03:33:49 PM  
That "interview" was more of a press release than most actual press releases I've read.
 
2013-08-21 03:42:07 PM  
I don't mind paying a sub but I don't see how this is anything different than the regular blather before any MMO launch.  And why don't they ask the important questions: "One can expect bugs after launch...but is development on schedule and what percentage of documented content are you going to launch with?"  I love the content update schedule answer - "Uhh...we'll have to wait and see."  Yeah, sub only.  Is anyone taking bets on when the server merge occurs?

And what happened to Star Wars, IMO, had less to do with the amount of content and more to do with the quality.  They had enough content to keep people happily paying subs.  But shiat...how do you release an MMO and have no way to LFP/LFG or search the farking auction house?! (and don't get me started on combat...).
 
2013-08-21 04:08:17 PM  
I'll wait for it to inevitably go Free To Play.

Because it will.
 
2013-08-21 04:12:25 PM  

BizarreMan: But A) I don't want to have to deal with playing with trolls from around the world.


To be fair though, I'm sure a $15 a month paywall will cut down on a lot of the trolling. Not all of course, but a good portion of it.

Now if/when it goes free-2-play, then the floodgates will be open.
 
2013-08-21 04:20:49 PM  
I don't understand the appeal of MMORPGs.

95% of them seem like endless repetitive grinding that takes up as much time as a second job.

The remaining 5% are weird, like the spreadsheet mania that is EVE Online.
 
2013-08-21 04:21:13 PM  
Free-2-play is killing the AAA MMO market.
 
2013-08-21 04:31:32 PM  

badLogic: Free-2-play is killing the AAA MMO market.


Yes it is.  I've dabbled with a few (DC Online was ok, Ragnarok 2 was too grindy but cute) but have settled on Rift.

Rift has been great.  I've almost earned enough plat to buy the in game currency, but I did buy the Storm Legion expansion when it went on super sale at WalMart so I've had access to the AH which really helps.

It even got my wife back into MMOs.  She just gives me what she wants to auction and I give her the gold.

SWTOR was exactly how NOT to do F2P.  You had to pay to unlock the ability to hide your (usually hideous) head armor for goodness sake.  AND, they locked you out of the end game which was suffering to begin with.
 
2013-08-21 04:33:21 PM  
Hell, I'll just say it. I'm going to pay this and I'm going to like it.
 
2013-08-21 04:33:48 PM  
Step 1: Develop the most anticipated game of 2014

Say what?
 
2013-08-21 04:33:52 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Free to play MMOs have a tendency to suck. $15/month is pretty steep though.


$15/month was what Blizzard was charging for WoW back when they were on the subscription model. And yeah, F2P MMOs suck. I'm okay with this.

/also, many of the people complaining are the same sort who will spend way more than $15 per month on freemium games
 
2013-08-21 04:34:48 PM  
The comparison for this isn't Skyrim; it's World of Warcraft.  The price point here is about the same as that.
 
2013-08-21 04:37:23 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: Step 1: Develop the most anticipated game of 2014

Say what?


I know, I was worried that Watch Dogs would need a subscription for online play.
 
2013-08-21 04:41:12 PM  

Theaetetus: $15/month was what Blizzard was charging for WoW back when they were on the subscription model.


When they were on the subscription model? They still are - I just cancelled mine a few weeks back because I don't have time anymore.
 
2013-08-21 04:41:39 PM  
$14.99 a month?  No thanks.

4.99 yes.
 
2013-08-21 04:41:53 PM  

badLogic: Free-2-play is killing the AAA MMO market.




More or less.
Its not who plays so much as who pays tho, and serious gamers are willing to buy a premium product. Especially if it delivers a well groomed play environment (which f2p/ptw don't always manage).
I don't think its a model that is automatically successful just because its cheap to get into.

/Charging for the game in addition to the subscription is kind of dickish, tho.
/I'd do f2p till your out of the Lowbie levels then segregate payers from there.
 
2013-08-21 04:41:59 PM  

meat0918: badLogic: Free-2-play is killing the AAA MMO market.

Yes it is.  I've dabbled with a few (DC Online was ok, Ragnarok 2 was too grindy but cute) but have settled on Rift.

Rift has been great.  I've almost earned enough plat to buy the in game currency, but I did buy the Storm Legion expansion when it went on super sale at WalMart so I've had access to the AH which really helps.

It even got my wife back into MMOs.  She just gives me what she wants to auction and I give her the gold.

SWTOR was exactly how NOT to do F2P.  You had to pay to unlock the ability to hide your (usually hideous) head armor for goodness sake.  AND, they locked you out of the end game which was suffering to begin with.


So, basically this.

Did WoW thru Wrath, bailed on it because I moved back to my hometown and had a social life again. Did a lot of XBL online stuff with friends, played consoles b/c I set up a killer HT system.

FFWD to about 6 months ago when I build myself a kickass gaming PC. Start replaying console games on PC with the additions of user-generated content. My brother starts telling me about MMOs that are going f2p, I say sure, we can play them so long as it doesn't cost me nuthin'. Level 2 toons to cap in SWTOR being frustrated the whole way by the lockouts/pay-only options, but accumulate resources to the point where my account is just shy of a sub model- and have nothing to do anymore, since I don't want to sub/pay to raid, or have the time to do it. Enter Rift- does everything right that SWTOR did wrong (only downside being the AH restriction) and I've been enjoying it. My experiences with these two games has led me to believe I don't need to pay for an MMO ever again, as on the one hand I can pay for something and still not be satisfied by it and on the other knowing I'll never be able to commit fully to it anyway.

/waiting patiently for Fallout 4, currently playing FNV again
//everything is easier with a modded Barrett loaded with explosive shells
 
Alo [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 04:43:27 PM  
 
2013-08-21 04:43:52 PM  

Relatively Obscure: sigdiamond2000: I can think of very, very few things that would make me not buy Fallout 4. It's pretty much a blank check scenario for me.

Subscription would do it for me, probably, but otherwise I largely stand ready to buy it immediately.


Second. I've spent countless hours on New Vegas and FO3, but a subscription will cause me to not do FO4.

Can't wait for Wasteland 2 though.
 
2013-08-21 04:44:23 PM  
I'm actually looking forward to Everquest Next.
 
2013-08-21 04:46:04 PM  
I'd still be pretty wary of an online Bethesda title, they have made great efforts towards encompassing single player persistent worlds but that does automagically translate to good methods of dealing with persistent multiplayer worlds.

Relatively Obscure: sigdiamond2000: I can think of very, very few things that would make me not buy Fallout 4. It's pretty much a blank check scenario for me.

Subscription would do it for me, probably, but otherwise I largely stand ready to buy it immediately.


Imma have to agree with you there, about the only thing that'd made me not buy FO4 is a subscription or any sort of hybrid online bullshiat.  Bethesda's strength is making incredible single player experiences, they should stick to their strengths.

/or its announced it'll be come in blanded-down 32bit current gen console editions as well
//or that its been outsourced to EA, Activision or Gearbox
//Gearbox only because they have a certain reputation when it comes to handling their outsourcing efforts
 
2013-08-21 04:46:09 PM  
Still playing Guild Wars 2. Spent 60 bucks. Spent 20 more months later on gems. No subscriptions. New content. Constant improvements, adjustments and streamlining. Honestly couldn't be happier with the money I've spent.
 
2013-08-21 04:47:25 PM  
I'd like to join the in and say f2p games are ruining gaming IMO. As some who is only a casual gamer I was fearing more games going the f2p route. I'll gladly pay for a game, even a monthly fee if I don't have to worry about constantly shelling out 5 bucks at any random time to get the full experience a game is supposed to offer.
 
2013-08-21 04:48:13 PM  
GW2 is good, but it has no end game.
Rift strikes me as a straight-up WoW clone, with better graphics.
SWTOR is pay-to-play.  They're not fooling anyone.
TSW is probably the most interesting one out there now.
 
2013-08-21 04:48:30 PM  
Just a reminder that Guild Wars 2 has no monthly fees, and new content every 2 weeks.

/Another new dungeon, and a massive invasion for this 2 week cycle
//after a new battle arena a couple weeks ago
///Never paying a monthly sub for a MMO again.
 
2013-08-21 04:48:32 PM  

BumpInTheNight: //Gearbox only because they have a certain reputation when it comes to handling their outsourcing efforts


Well if it's outsourced to Gearbox, it'll just get outsourced to another company without anyone knowing while they take all the credit for previews/reviews and then blame the other company when it's eventually released and found out to be crap.

/Why yes, I still hold some resentment for their shoddy treatment of the Alien franchise
 
2013-08-21 04:49:47 PM  
It's very rare that I'll even pay $60 for a game.  I did for Portal 2.  And it was worth it.  But I already knew how much I would like it before I got it.

Anything else, I wait until it's down to $30 or lower.  Preferably more like $5.
 
2013-08-21 04:51:34 PM  
Bethesda is quickly turning to the dark side. Hasn't there only been like, two or three MMO's in history that ever thrived on the subscription model? I mean the internet is littered with hundreds of failed MMO's that were forced to go free-to-play.

At this point I have to assume any subscription MMO is planned for F2P later, and they just want to get as much cash from early adopters as possible rather than go straight to the F2P model from launch.
 
2013-08-21 04:51:49 PM  
one-time fee per month

A fee is either one-time or it's per-month.  It cannot be both.

$15/month is outrageous.  Buying the game over and over again every four months?  Forget it.
 
2013-08-21 04:52:25 PM  
You mean it wont be pay to win? With most of the features locked out to 'premium' customers anyway?
 
2013-08-21 04:52:34 PM  
Honestly, all the wow-killers that have come down the pipeline have told me one thing.

Believe absolutely nothing about an MMO until it has been out. Rift would be alright except their boss design is still a good 4-5 years behind WoW, so I pass.
 
2013-08-21 04:55:09 PM  
It will be free to play within 12 months. The beta is good not 14.99 good and the competition from FFXIV will make it hard for two new subscription services to succeed.
 
2013-08-21 04:55:15 PM  

Rev.K: That up-front cost really fries my ass.

You're paying $60 for your first month of play and then you have to pay $14.99 a month after that.

That f*cking sucks. For $15 a month the f*cking game should be free.


Yeah, that's getting to be a common sentiment these days. Does WoW still charge that much per month? I can't imagine WoW gets many new subscribers when you have to purchase the base game at something like $20, 3 of the expacs at $20 a crack, and the panda expac at $40, then add a monthly fee on top of it. The problem is many of the free to play/pay to win MMO's suck ass. As someone mentioned SWTOR really blew it in their method of pay to win where unless you subscribe you have to pay to unlock various standard features and to unlock a half assed end game.

Thankfully I've broken out of MMO's for good now and just play regular RPG's.
 
2013-08-21 04:55:23 PM  
Man, do I hate listening to / reading PR flacks talk about their products. It's worse, even, than SEO writing.
 
2013-08-21 04:56:27 PM  

meanmutton: The comparison for this isn't Skyrim; it's World of Warcraft.  The price point here is about the same as that.


It's probably doomed then. When you're asking people to pay a monthly fee equivalent to WoW's with none of the development and content expansions that have gone into WoW over the last 7 or so years, you're doomed to fail.

Your game is going to have problems on launch. All games do. Your game is going to be unbalanced and buggy for months after launch. Again, most games are. Why should anyone pay you a monthly fee to fix what WoW has already fixed because its been in the market almost a decade?

Which frankly, sucks. I do not enjoy the "free" to play model because what "free" really means is you can play for free but if you want to do the good stuff, or get the good stuff, you're going to be nickel and dimed to death. Sometimes to the point you'd be spending more than $15 a month to access all the content.
 
2013-08-21 04:56:37 PM  

BizarreMan: Half Life 3?


Thats the most anticipated game of every year. Now that I've thought of it ill have to go replay all of the HL universe games in hope that it will make it magically come out.

Of course there's always the chance that HL2 EP2 is really the end, and the script was based on Hemingway's unpublished attempt at dystopian science fiction.
 
2013-08-21 04:56:41 PM  
It's being released on the next-gen consoles too?

So does that mean I'll have to pay $60 for the game, $5-10 for online services per month for the console, and then an additional $15 per month to play it?
 
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