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(Pro Football Talk)   The NFL, continuing on its path toward flag football, is now fining players for clean tackles   (profootballtalk.nbcsports.com) divider line 46
    More: Asinine, flag football, NFL, Jon Bostic, Chargers, Lance Briggs, Dustin Keller  
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1966 clicks; posted to Sports » on 21 Aug 2013 at 12:15 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



46 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-21 12:19:19 PM
I can see that being a helmet to helmet and/or defenseless receiver "devastating hit" or whatever call.  Also a bit of taunting but who cares.

The big deal here isn't inconsistency in fines.  It's fining a play AND highlighting it as "spectacular" on NFL.com at the same time.
 
2013-08-21 12:20:19 PM
Ah Subby is obviously confused about the definition of "clean" tackle. The NFL's definition of "clean" changes every year so the NFL never fines players for "clean" tackles because the tackles are no longer "clean". Because the NFL issued a fine for it.

It's simple really if you really think about it hard, so hard your head starts to hurt and you forget what you were thinking about.
 
2013-08-21 12:27:58 PM
at this rate in the future they should just get rid of defenses, just setup an obstacle course for the players and turn it into american gladiators for pussies
 
2013-08-21 12:29:27 PM
"now?"
 
2013-08-21 12:33:33 PM
The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit
Clean Hit
 
2013-08-21 12:35:01 PM
What the NFL really needs is more commercials.  Some of the games last weekend actually had a team run several plays in a row with no TV timeouts, official reviews, or other stoppages of play.
 
2013-08-21 12:42:52 PM

BigSnatch: The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit


I didn't watch that game so I have no idea if later on the commentators acknowledged the NFL might take an extra look at it, but there's a classic example of the larger disconnect of what even the perception of a "dirty" hit is; both guys in the booth essentially blowing their wads in excitement and approval of something the league later deems as "illegal".
 
2013-08-21 12:44:57 PM

BigSnatch: The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit
Clean Hit


that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm ready to just give up on the NFL and start watching synchronized knitting
 
2013-08-21 12:48:18 PM

Dr. Kefarkian: start watching synchronized knitting


I love that channel.
 
2013-08-21 12:51:11 PM
Bostic was fined for lowering his head while hitting a defenseless receiver.

He was not defenseless. He caught it, took two steps and had actually turned up-field. And that wasn't an incomplete pass. That was a fumble and should have been challenged by the bears.
 
2013-08-21 12:53:47 PM
I hope he appeals.  That hit was a great play, and we can't have our rookie thinking that he has to try to push guys over instead of tackling.  Someone should fine the NFL for inciting 'fine worthy hits' by highlighting this hit earlier in the week.
 
2013-08-21 01:10:44 PM

Dr. Kefarkian: BigSnatch: The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit
Clean Hit

that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm ready to just give up on the NFL and start watching synchronized knitting


they synchronize that shiat now?  I'm in.  Especially if they wear those slutty ass dresses that show a little ankle.
 
2013-08-21 01:15:24 PM
The NFL should look into eliminating defenses all together.

What should happen is this: the defensive coordinator submits a play call to the ref.  Then the offense runs their play, the ref then decides how successful the defense would have been in stopping it and awards the offense with the appropriate yardage.  This way we can assure no one gets hurt.
 
2013-08-21 01:16:19 PM

Obscure Login: The NFL should look into eliminating defenses all together.


What do you think they have been doing for the past few years?
 
2013-08-21 01:23:21 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: I hope he appeals.  That hit was a great play, and we can't have our rookie thinking that he has to try to push guys over instead of tackling.  Someone should fine the NFL for inciting 'fine worthy hits' by highlighting this hit earlier in the week.


One of the most frustrating moments I've had as a Bears fan was a Monday Night game against the Lions. The details are a bit fuzzy, but I think Herman Moore caught a pass along the sideline, and the MLB at the time, Joe Cain, was in perfect position to hit/tackle/maim/etc., but only shoved him, with no effect at all. I want to say Moore scored on the play. When asked about it after the game, Cain said that he thought someone else was going to hit them.

This, after years and years of Singletary being the MLB. You're the middle linebacker for the Chicago Bears! What do you mean, you thought someone else was going to hit him? don't wait for someone else!

But I'm over it and not bitter in any way.
 
2013-08-21 01:30:12 PM

elguerodiablo: Dr. Kefarkian: BigSnatch: The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit
Clean Hit

that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm ready to just give up on the NFL and start watching synchronized knitting

they synchronize that shiat now?  I'm in.  Especially if they wear those slutty ass dresses that show a little ankle.


What is an ass dress?
 
2013-08-21 01:36:45 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Someone should fine the NFL for inciting 'fine worthy hits' by highlighting this hit earlier in the week.


This kind of mixed message thing is gonna kill the NFL in the players ongoing lawsuit about concussions.  It undercuts the NFL's defense of 'Well, we just didn't know as much about it back then,' when this gets posted this week.  The 'fine' is going to be millions and millions of dollars in damages.
 
2013-08-21 01:46:13 PM
Really NFL? It's not as if Bostic led with the crown of his helmet on a helmet-to-helmet hit (though I can see an argument for a possible H2H hit), and the tackled player got up immediately and didn't seem to show any ill effects of said hit. The taunting call was probably more on the rookie being excited after making a big play.

/more surprising is that the Bears' top two picks look like they can actually play football
//so used to them coming in pre-injured and redshirting a year or simply sucking outright after a decade of terrible Angelo drafts
 
2013-08-21 01:46:52 PM
i184.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 01:49:07 PM
As a football fan this passes me off. I remember watching that hit and thinking they could use it as an example that you can still deliver a "big hit" and still be clean.

As a Lions fan, I think this is a bit of karma after Suh was fined for playing 2 hand touch with Cutler. At least Suh learned his lesson and almost broke Cutler in half the next opportunity.
 
2013-08-21 01:49:29 PM

mcmnky: elguerodiablo: Dr. Kefarkian: BigSnatch: The only way to make a clean tackle and avoid a fine is to go low, just like Swearinger did on Keller. The NFL has made this crystal clear.

Dirty Hit
Clean Hit

that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
I'm ready to just give up on the NFL and start watching synchronized knitting

they synchronize that shiat now?  I'm in.  Especially if they wear those slutty ass dresses that show a little ankle.

What is an ass dress?


A GIS that will take up the rest of the day and possibly get me fired?
 
2013-08-21 02:04:27 PM
Meh, he lowered his head, which also puts the defensive player at risk for concussion or neck injury.
 
2013-08-21 02:15:20 PM
I thought it was helmet-to-helmet... But I see now on super slo-mo that he was just under the receiver's helmet. Maybe that shouldn't be a fine, but these players need to learn how to tackle properly. Head up and into the jersey numbers. Dropping your head at full speed is going to get yourself hurt. Just ask Kevin Everett.
 
2013-08-21 02:36:19 PM

basemetal: Meh, he lowered his head, which also puts the defensive player at risk for concussion or neck injury.


So they should also fine the offensive player, and maybe whoever called the play to begin with.  Not to mention the lineman that missed his assignment.

Hell just fine them all.
 
2013-08-21 02:42:00 PM
Well, to even out the fines, Wide Receivers should be fined for pass interference
 
2013-08-21 02:58:01 PM
Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.
 
2013-08-21 03:04:36 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.


The NFL raked in $2.8 million in fines just in 2012 alone.  How else are they going to raise that amount of cash?  They're addicted at this point.
 
2013-08-21 03:11:51 PM

Marcus Aurelius: TuteTibiImperes: Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.

The NFL raked in $2.8 million in fines just in 2012 alone.  How else are they going to raise that amount of cash?  They're addicted at this point.


Yes how will the NFL ever raise $2.8 million? I just don't see how they could possibly come up with that kind of money. Good thing they came up with this fine scheme.
 
2013-08-21 03:28:07 PM

js34603: Marcus Aurelius: TuteTibiImperes: Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.

The NFL raked in $2.8 million in fines just in 2012 alone.  How else are they going to raise that amount of cash?  They're addicted at this point.

Yes how will the NFL ever raise $2.8 million? I just don't see how they could possibly come up with that kind of money. Good thing they came up with this fine scheme.


It's nice to meet someone that thinks $2.8 million is chump change.  You should consider running for Congress.
 
2013-08-21 03:34:11 PM

Marcus Aurelius: TuteTibiImperes: Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.

The NFL raked in $2.8 million in fines just in 2012 alone.  How else are they going to raise that amount of cash?  They're addicted at this point.


All fine money goes to charity and healthcare for retired players.

In fact, every fine letter states where the money from that particular fine goes.

Clearly the NFL is raking it in.
 
2013-08-21 03:34:51 PM
That was a choice hit.
 
2013-08-21 03:38:45 PM

Marcus Aurelius: js34603: Marcus Aurelius: TuteTibiImperes: Unless there's a penalty called on the play for an illegal hit/unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct there shouldn't be fines for on-field activity.

The NFL raked in $2.8 million in fines just in 2012 alone.  How else are they going to raise that amount of cash?  They're addicted at this point.

Yes how will the NFL ever raise $2.8 million? I just don't see how they could possibly come up with that kind of money. Good thing they came up with this fine scheme.

It's nice to meet someone that thinks $2.8 million is chump change.  You should consider running for Congress.


The NFL makes about $10b a year, so $2.8m is less than 1/3 of 1% of their annual income. And like I said, it all goes I charity.

Even if they take a tax deduction for it, it's less than about a million difference, which is about 1% of 1% of their income.

It's not a real revenue source.
 
2013-08-21 03:44:07 PM
Antoine Winfield got fined for a not-late hit too against the Chargers.

Dumb.
 
2013-08-21 03:59:15 PM
At first I was like "OUTRAGED BEARS FAN!!!!!"

And then I watched the Gif above a couple times and now I'm like "Yeah, he did lead with the helmet."

/True story.
 
2013-08-21 05:03:13 PM
The game that is football is almost over.
 
2013-08-21 05:20:02 PM
i.imgur.com

BAH GAWD KING!!  HE DECAPITATED HIM WITH HIS HELMET!  HE BROKE HIM IN HALF!!
 
2013-08-21 05:56:54 PM

Tyee: The game that is football is almost over.


Yeah, but no one knows exactly when it will end because extra time in football is calculated weird.
 
2013-08-21 06:25:54 PM
Has anyone said that it was a clean hit yet?
How about that it was a shiatty fine?

I am a little late to the party here
 
2013-08-21 06:29:19 PM

abhorrent1: Bostic was fined for lowering his head while hitting a defenseless receiver.

He was not defenseless. He caught it, took two steps and had actually turned up-field. And that wasn't an incomplete pass. That was a fumble and should have been challenged by the bears.


Yeah. Totally agree.

I would have given the NFL the benefit of the doubt if they had fined him the standard $7500 for a first timer. Instead they go all Hit Nazi and toss a $21,000 fine? BS. That's like an entire paycheck to Bostic, and is COMPLETE crap.

//Bet your bottom that he'll be appealing.
 
2013-08-21 06:41:27 PM

italie: abhorrent1: Bostic was fined for lowering his head while hitting a defenseless receiver.

He was not defenseless. He caught it, took two steps and had actually turned up-field. And that wasn't an incomplete pass. That was a fumble and should have been challenged by the bears.

Yeah. Totally agree.

I would have given the NFL the benefit of the doubt if they had fined him the standard $7500 for a first timer. Instead they go all Hit Nazi and toss a $21,000 fine? BS. That's like an entire paycheck to Bostic, and is COMPLETE crap.

//Bet your bottom that he'll be appealing.


He got like a $1.6M signing bonus. His regular paychecks may not be that big yet but it won't put too much of a hurt on him. He'll appeal it and it'll likely get reduced too.
 
2013-08-21 07:08:33 PM
1. Extend fore-finger.
2. Tap opposing player on shoulder
3. Politely ask opposing player to carefully fall down.
4. Repeat as necessary.
 
2013-08-21 07:19:48 PM

AdamK: at this rate in the future they should just get rid of defenses, just setup an obstacle course for the players and turn it into american gladiators for pussies


You dummy, what happens when the players hurt themselves on the obstacles?  I've got a much better idea.  At the beginning of the season, all of the players participate in a giant combine.  The numbers are plugged into a computer, and then the players just play the season as themselves on Madden.
 
2013-08-22 03:22:23 AM

ShadezofDis: At first I was like "OUTRAGED BEARS FAN!!!!!"

And then I watched the Gif above a couple times and now I'm like "Yeah, he did lead with the helmet."

/True story.


The problem comes that they are trying to interpret if the tackler was intending to spear the opponent, or was attempting to make a clean shoulder tackle.  I saw the gif as a clean shoulder tackle.  Both feet were still on the ground, so he didn't launch himself.  His arms were such that he was attempting to hold on and complete a proper tackle, not just flying in and trying to hit with the shoulder.

I'm not sure what he could have done differently to make that any more clean of a tackle.
 
2013-08-22 03:27:03 AM

RogermcAllen: AdamK: at this rate in the future they should just get rid of defenses, just setup an obstacle course for the players and turn it into american gladiators for pussies

You dummy, what happens when the players hurt themselves on the obstacles?  I've got a much better idea.  At the beginning of the season, all of the players participate in a giant combine.  The numbers are plugged into a computer, and then the players just play the season as themselves on Madden.



By fleshing out the gameplay of the off positions a bit, and slowing the game down from the arcade speed they currently run it at ... 11 on 11 Madden would be pretty epic.  Pick up games would probably look too much like Valve server TF2 though ... all 11 on defense would full blitz every play regardless of actual assignments, and every offensive play would be five wideouts all going deep for a hail mary pass.
 
2013-08-22 06:40:50 AM

FuManchu7: ShadezofDis: At first I was like "OUTRAGED BEARS FAN!!!!!"

And then I watched the Gif above a couple times and now I'm like "Yeah, he did lead with the helmet."

/True story.

The problem comes that they are trying to interpret if the tackler was intending to spear the opponent, or was attempting to make a clean shoulder tackle.  I saw the gif as a clean shoulder tackle.  Both feet were still on the ground, so he didn't launch himself.  His arms were such that he was attempting to hold on and complete a proper tackle, not just flying in and trying to hit with the shoulder.

I'm not sure what he could have done differently to make that any more clean of a tackle.


Not to mention that unless your shoulders are 6 feet wide, some part of your head is bound to hit the guy you're tackling. When you lower your shoulder, your head goes down too. It's on the top of your body and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Unless you're Plastic Man.
 
2013-08-22 12:45:53 PM
My problem with this is that I feel like it's an overreaction to how hard the hit was, not how the hit landed. Were the receiver bigger, and had not been drilled backwards as hard, I don't even think this play gets noticed.
 
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