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(Huffington Post) NewsFlash Bradley Manning gets 35 years in the hole   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 81
    More: NewsFlash, Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks, David Coombs, revelations, Quantico, Fort Leavenworth, United Nations Special Rapporteur, Arab Uprisings  
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6524 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-21 10:46:03 AM  
24 votes:

d23: Gee.. what are the odds that the people that throw around the term "statism" are the same people already crying "not enough" about the Bradly Manning sentence?


I would have been happy with 20-25. But I can't feel too bad about 35 either.

bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.


Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.
2013-08-21 11:01:20 AM  
11 votes:
35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.
2013-08-21 10:41:25 AM  
11 votes:
I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 10:52:02 AM  
5 votes:

skinnycatullus: That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.


It seems a bit much.  His defense actually had a point when they pointed out that he shouldn't have had a security clearance because the Army knew he had mental problems.
2013-08-21 11:07:40 AM  
4 votes:

JohnAnnArbor: It's longer than the American Taliban.  He got 20.


What bothers me is he got 35 years longer than the people whose crimes he exposed.
2013-08-21 11:02:27 AM  
4 votes:

IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.


The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.
2013-08-21 10:59:45 AM  
4 votes:
the lesson here, folks, is to let the assholes in power do what they want and never question it....

..everyone who questioned Shrub's lack of evidence/judgement/sobriety were not being patriotic at *all*.
2013-08-21 10:49:14 AM  
4 votes:
vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

Yeah, as much as I love a good whistle blower, who knows it's conceivable that people's lives could have been put in danger.  At BEST it's reckless and irresponsible.
2013-08-21 10:36:15 AM  
4 votes:
That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 10:31:58 AM  
4 votes:
Gee.. what are the odds that the people that throw around the term "statism" are the same people already crying "not enough" about the Bradly Manning sentence?
2013-08-21 11:15:49 AM  
3 votes:

A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate.

-  Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project

2013-08-21 11:05:49 AM  
3 votes:

elffster: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

So....telling folks about war crimes that US troops commit is bad...right, gotcha.

Moran.


War crimes? Don't blame the troops for a couple stupid journalists who thought it would be cool to walk around a combat zone with dudes carrying rifles and rpg's. As for the children in the van, blame the dummy who brought his kids along to evacuate shot up terrorists.
2013-08-21 11:05:04 AM  
3 votes:
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
2013-08-21 11:03:26 AM  
3 votes:
If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.
2013-08-21 11:00:41 AM  
3 votes:

freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.


So....telling folks about war crimes that US troops commit is bad...right, gotcha.

Moran.
2013-08-21 10:55:40 AM  
3 votes:

bdub77: This happens to me my view on it too. I'm not saying I think what he did was wrong, but I'm pretty disheartened by the way in which our government is acting.


That's where I'm at with the whole thing as well.
2013-08-21 10:48:13 AM  
3 votes:

vygramul: Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.


THIS!
2013-08-21 01:31:09 PM  
2 votes:
Did anybody notice the part where the longstanding claims asshats have been making that he had BLOOD ON HIS HANDS!! were shown to be bullshiat?

The sentencing phase of Manning's trial revealed that contrary to the claims of pundits and politicians, Manning had no blood on his hands -- the Departments of Defense and State were unable to tie his releases to the deaths of any U.S. informants.

He revealed illegal behavior on the part of our military up and down the chain of command.

Iraqi civilians were murdered. Nothing was done.

Our troops who reported torture were told to stand down and their reports were illegally ignored.

That's whistle blowing.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Meanwhile...

The officer in charge of interrogations at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, where prisoners were abused and humiliated, has been cited for two counts of dereliction of duty, received a formal reprimand and an $8,000 fine, Army officials said yesterday.

In case you've forgotten what all went on in Abu Ghraib:

From late 2003 to early 2004, during the War in Iraq, military police personnel of the United States Army and the Central Intelligence Agency[1] committed human rights violations against prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison. They physically and sexually abused, tortured,[2][3][4] raped,[2][3] sodomized,[4] and killed[5] prisoners.

A wrist slap fine for overseeing murder, but decades in prison for blowing the whistle on torture?

Seems legit.
2013-08-21 12:18:29 PM  
2 votes:
I bet he gets more time than the guy about to go on trial for murdering 16 civilians in Iraq.

Uncovering war crimes is worse than committing war crimes. "Murrica.
2013-08-21 12:05:16 PM  
2 votes:

Lady J: FrankenPC: I sincerely everyone keeps this in mind:  The courts didn't throw Manning in jail.  They threw US in jail.  You see, no one really cares what happens to one individual.  But they do want to make damn sure there are no copycats out there.  So, the 35 years behind bars thing is a message TO US.  SUBMIT, DON'T QUESTION, WE HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL, IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.

im still trying to understand the in's and out's of the whole thing (without making enormous effort, in fairness), but this is definitely true


Look, I'm going to keep this really, really simple:

Part of the oath that Manning took- twice- included the phrase "according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice". He hasn't been punished under Federal, state, or local law. He's being punished under military law, and the rules are different.

To make a freaking extreme example, imagine someone falling asleep at work. Chances are, they'd get a reprimand, maybe even fired. Under the UCMJ, there are certain times (when you're on guard, for example) where the maximum penalty for doing that is death.

If you don't want to risk punishment under the UCMJ, don't join the military. It's pretty simple, really.
2013-08-21 11:45:42 AM  
2 votes:
To anyone saying he did not screen it properly; he could not do that and have the same impact. The whole point of what he did was to expose the fact that everything is being placed behind the wall of secrecy without any good reason. We, as American people, are being denied even the most basic information in an unfiltered form. The only actual info we get has been put through so many spin cycles that what comes out has as much in common with the facts as orange soda does to an orange. In order to expose the ridiculousness of the situation he had to put it all out there. Notice how there were no lives lost when 30K+ documents were released in bulk. We had no significant set-backs in our military or diplomatic apparatus reported upon, which I am sure would have been trumpeted had that been the case.

What you are left with is the argument that he could have caused significant harm. Speeding could cause significant harm and cost a lot of lives in the wrong scenario. People are made to pay a fine and at worst perform community service. Drunk driving might result in a few weekends in jail. Both of those crimes have the potential for significant harm, but carry with them much lighter sentences. A multi-car wreck can result in half a dozen fatalities. That handful of lives lost is a tragedy and yet for the punishment people are given next to nothing in relative comparison to what Bradley Manning got. Justice must be blind, impartial and even handed in order for it to be just. He had no malice of intent and there was no actual harm. His motives seemed noble even if his actions were illegal. To me, in my understanding of things, those factors deserve heavy consideration when determining sentence. He did deserve to be found guilty, however being the liberal that I am, I think sentencing him to time served + 1000 hours of community service would have sufficed.

Yes, he broke the law... however the law was being used in such a way so as to arguably circumvent first amendment. By putting everything done behind the wall of secrecy you deny the press the ability to do it's job. Essentially, you elect to spoon feed to choice organizations the cherry picked information you want them to have, and to hell with the rest. No one can take the time to sift through documents because there are no documents through which to sift. You use one law to basically render an amendment to the constitution impotent. It is only in abstract these days, but the constitution ought to be considered the highest law of the land and be used as the guide for setting all other laws. It is impractical, inefficient and more prone to creating conflict between government and citizenry; but it is also the best way to keep a country free from government over-reach. At this point in our history it is an idealized notion... something antiquated and only paid lip service to. I know this, I understand this. I am a realist about it. It still hurts and angers me on some fundamental level when I see such blatant examples of it. It goes even deeper when I see so many of my fellow citizens defend something so against the spirit of our nation. Eh, but what do I know?
2013-08-21 11:35:32 AM  
2 votes:
I sincerely everyone keeps this in mind:  The courts didn't throw Manning in jail.  They threw US in jail.  You see, no one really cares what happens to one individual.  But they do want to make damn sure there are no copycats out there.  So, the 35 years behind bars thing is a message TO US.  SUBMIT, DON'T QUESTION, WE HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL, IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.
2013-08-21 11:28:58 AM  
2 votes:
...and this ladies and gentlemen ... is what happens if you are a patriot.
2013-08-21 11:18:13 AM  
2 votes:
You guys need to remember that he is in the military.  Before you join, they explain to you that you will fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  Normal rules of US law do not always apply.  On top of that, any time you are given a security clearance, you have the consequences of releasing that information explained thoroughly.  He signed a contract acknowledging all of that, then released the documents.  He knew exactly what was going to happen.  Or at least he should have, if he is not a moron.  Trying to equate this with civilian whistleblowing is completely unreasonable.  Military clearances are given because a lot of the classified information, if released, can easily result in the deaths of US military personnel.  Is all classified stuff classified for that reason?  No, but a lot is, and indiscriminately releasing it is a bad thing.

TL;DR  He is in the military, and military justice comes down like a ton of bricks on releasing classified information.  And he knew that going in.
2013-08-21 11:15:09 AM  
2 votes:
The real crime is that our government could classify 250k documents out of reach of the public.
2013-08-21 11:12:08 AM  
2 votes:

bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.





i.imgur.com

R.I.P. VAN HALEN


2013-08-21 11:08:52 AM  
2 votes:
He's not a hero, nor is he a traitor. He's a dumb kid. The irresponsible thing was giving him a security clearance in the first place, and I really hope he gets early release. A very heavy and very public sentence makes sense as a deterrent, but he should be allowed to leave after 10 years on condition of good behavior and he agrees to no book, no movie, etc.
2013-08-21 11:07:06 AM  
2 votes:

elffster: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

So....telling folks about war crimes that US troops commit is bad...right, gotcha.

Moran.


Releasing secret documents irrespective of whether they show US wrongdoing or not is bad.  That's what Bradley Manning did.  Had he limited it to just those documents that show the US doing something wrong, I'd be right there with you.  But that's not what he did.

Moran.
2013-08-21 11:05:38 AM  
2 votes:

bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.


Let me take on your comments by paragraph.

1) What poopy stuff? We're at war in Afghanistan presently and with extreme Muslim cultists worldwide. We were at war with Iraq but not anymore. Can you be more specific? Or are you complaining about the local DMV branch office?

2) Utter BS. The kid passed along classified data without screening it throughly for, oopies, information valuable for our enemies, allies and all those inbetween. Methods exist for whisleblowing and/or calling out serious problems within the system. The young idiot didn't try them first.

/I'm cool with 35 years in prison.
//He could have gotten worse and may have deserved more time.
2013-08-21 11:04:06 AM  
2 votes:

Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.


If you're a guy who thinks false equivalencies like this are somehow clever, stop it. Stop. No.
2013-08-21 11:03:10 AM  
2 votes:
This just in: if you break the law and get caught there is a good chance you'll go to jail!


It will be interesting to see if Obama pardons him on his last day in office.
2013-08-21 11:02:32 AM  
2 votes:

elffster: So....telling folks about war crimes that US troops commit is bad...right, gotcha.


The issue is sliiiiightly more complicated than your bumper sticker version allows for.
2013-08-21 10:58:52 AM  
2 votes:

make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.


I can, screw the traitor.
2013-08-21 10:52:07 AM  
2 votes:

vygramul: d23: Gee.. what are the odds that the people that throw around the term "statism" are the same people already crying "not enough" about the Bradly Manning sentence?

I would have been happy with 20-25. But I can't feel too bad about 35 either.

bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.

Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.


This happens to me my view on it too. I'm not saying I think what he did was wrong, but I'm pretty disheartened by the way in which our government is acting.
2013-08-21 10:36:59 AM  
2 votes:
considering "Death" could have been on the table, that's not that bad.   is there the possibility for early release?
2013-08-22 12:22:22 PM  
1 votes:
Now Manning says he wants to live the rest of his life as a woman.

Good for him, because as a small man going to a big prison, that was going to happen anyway.
2013-08-21 03:47:44 PM  
1 votes:

freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.


Go re-read your Constitution.

- Thanks, the Founding Fathers.
2013-08-21 03:28:47 PM  
1 votes:
Mirrors my sentiments

Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project:

When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system. A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate.
2013-08-21 03:20:38 PM  
1 votes:
If only Manning had done something innocent and harmless, like covering up the friendly fire death of a fellow soldier, he wouldn't be in this mess!
2013-08-21 03:19:05 PM  
1 votes:
LasersHurt

Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.

If you're a guy who thinks false equivalencies like this are somehow clever, stop it. Stop. No.

That's g.d. right. It's only heroic when a republican is in office. When a democrat attacks innocent americans it's a necessity.

upl.co
2013-08-21 02:05:29 PM  
1 votes:

ManateeGag: vygramul: Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

THIS!


But no harm? It might have been stupid, but not 35 years stupid. Fall in line, citizen, or you're next.
2013-08-21 02:04:26 PM  
1 votes:

dervish16108: Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.

There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!


There's plenty of proof that the fraudulent bankers who destroyed our economy broke the law, including many convictions in civil trials.

Obama sure refused to prosecute any of them.
2013-08-21 02:01:48 PM  
1 votes:

Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.


There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!
2013-08-21 01:49:08 PM  
1 votes:

MOGGEE: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x371]
Meanwhile, these three bastards will prolly get out in less than 12.


I find it odd that nothing was greenlit on this story since it developed.  I could be wrong.
2013-08-21 01:06:07 PM  
1 votes:

RangerTaylor: brantgoose: Don't you mean "down the rabbit hole", Subby?

Which Lewis Carroll quotation best expresses your feeling for the "traitor", aka whistle-blower, Manning?

a) We're through the Looking Glass here, people.
b) Off with his head!
c) Eat me.

Unlike a true traitor or a leaker, he had a misplaced faith in the US military and government. I sign up for (c). Anybody who accepts the designation "traitor" will automatically select (b).

Please explain how an active duty servicemember with a security clearance deliberately releasing classified material in contravention of stated orders is not treason.  As soon as you can do that, we'll move forward.  Well-intentioned or not (I personally think he was throwing a tantrum more than anything) that is still treason.


Disobedience to orders isn't treason. You have to betray the country to the enemy for that, and the judge threw out that charge. Manning's argument was that he was releasing secrets to EVERYONE, and that the enemy got them only incidentally. Treason, btw, isn't an offense under the UCMJ; it's mentioned under the Espionage article, but it's not a named offense. Manning was found guilty of espionage and disobeying orders, but it's a matter of opinion whether what he did constitutes treason.
2013-08-21 12:56:53 PM  
1 votes:

brantgoose: Don't you mean "down the rabbit hole", Subby?

Which Lewis Carroll quotation best expresses your feeling for the "traitor", aka whistle-blower, Manning?

a) We're through the Looking Glass here, people.
b) Off with his head!
c) Eat me.

Unlike a true traitor or a leaker, he had a misplaced faith in the US military and government. I sign up for (c). Anybody who accepts the designation "traitor" will automatically select (b).


Please explain how an active duty servicemember with a security clearance deliberately releasing classified material in contravention of stated orders is not treason.  As soon as you can do that, we'll move forward.  Well-intentioned or not (I personally think he was throwing a tantrum more than anything) that is still treason.
2013-08-21 12:49:36 PM  
1 votes:

vygramul: mbillips: Cubicle Jockey: Lionel Mandrake: I guess Bradley Manning's crimes are almost twice as bad as running a slave-labor industry as Nazi Minister of Armaments.

William Calley served 3.5 years of house arrestfor his conviction of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.
.
Manning might serve ten times that amount in prison.

Calley was sentenced to life in Leavenworth by the Army, but Nixon had him transferred to house arrest and later pardoned him. The morale of the story? Don't vote for Nixon.

No wonder Republicans are so worried Obama will pardon Manning. That's what they would do.


I hope he does, just before leaving office.  Three and a half years on top of time-served is good for me.
2013-08-21 12:24:53 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: I guess Bradley Manning's crimes are almost twice as bad as running a slave-labor industry as Nazi Minister of Armaments.


William Calley served 3.5 years of house arrestfor his conviction of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.
.
Manning might serve ten times that amount in prison.
2013-08-21 12:22:54 PM  
1 votes:

Carth: MadMattressMack: He wanted to be a martyr for whatever reason and committed the first part when he released hundreds of thousands of classified documents without knowing what they contained. Now he has the second part. Good for him. If he thought this would have any other outcome he was seriously delusional.

This is what happens when you give young idealistic kids a security clearance. They think if they just expose the truth people will rise up and overthrow the oppression and they'll be hailed as heroes!


I joined the Army when I was 18 without a good ideological reason (kicked out of the house for irresponsibly partying all the time and just wanted security to have a house and income) and would have never considered doing something like this. If you didn't have the ideals in your head they drill it into you.

Though I do blame his command as well for not pulling him when it became obvious he was unfit. Plus they put you through psych evaluations and that should've picked up on this. From the documents I've briefly looked at and footage I've seen it seems some back door government normal BS to get the upper hand and grey area engagements. I don't see command ordering the targeting civilians for indiscriminate killing or genocide.

There's some bad and damaging stuff in the released documents, but the military's a broad sword designed for fighting other broad swords. It's not a scalpel. There are some scalpel teams, but they're not numerous enough to be effective theater wide, which is what the broad sword is designed for. Because of that there will be mistakes. It's not pretty but it's how the job gets done. And we're far better at limiting collateral damage than most, if not all, millitaries. We worry about how our guys are going to live with themselves when they get back.

In basic one of the things they went over was not doing something you're not supposed to do. That it is OK, and your duty, to refuse an order to do things like kill civilians. Our troops aren't mindless killing machines (well, maybe the USMC) but have a conscious as well. Though I don't think Manning got this and it seems he thought this was the case. That he thought command was complicit in mass murder and he was going to be some sort of hero, or at least show the world something new, by exposing it. But that wasn't the case. He exposed dark side of the military doing military stuff. That we can't 100% prevent killing innocent people. But that was nothing new and is something that is actively being worked on to minimize. And that knowledge

No matter what his ideals were, short of an overthrow of the government he had to know he was going to get punished severely for this. Security is a big concern in the military for some reason
2013-08-21 12:17:25 PM  
1 votes:

RangerTaylor: r1niceboy: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

It's always good to see a citizen showing the proper levels of due deference, unquestioning loyalty, and the prescribed levels of bitterness. Well done, sir, you rank highly on our lists. And believe me, we observe a great many citizens when checking our lists for compliance.

In his defense, Manning is quite literally a traitor.  Military personnel who release classified data and put people at risk are, by definition, traitors or spies, take your pick.


I agree he's committed espionage, but not with a mind towards harming US interests. He was certainly reckless, but doesn't deserve the casual hatred he's receiving. He should be punished, and his sentence is just. None of that takes away from the fact the US has a massive culture of secrecy that in many cases is entirely based on agencies wielding power. That the FBI can hand a letter to a person saying that we can take any information on any person, and if you even ask a lawyer whether this is legal, you can be prosecuted, is near the bottom of the slippery slope towards a police state. That is horrifying, and any American (or Brit, for that matter) talking about their freedom is completely deluded to think they have any. You can vote for this politician or that one, both of whom roll over for the NSA, the CIA, the DoD, or FBI on command. There's a reason J. Edgar Hoover stayed in his position for so long. He had more power than any of the politicians that thought they could knock him down a peg, and he used that power. as a result the culture of secrecy, and power, and spying domestically, became an industry. Now people think the real freedom in this country is whether or not they can buy a gun. The real freedom of standing up for what you believe, and being able to act on that peacefully, has long gone. We have undercover officers infiltrating peace movements, civil rights advocates and leaders gunned down, and people still believe they live in a free society because you are free to buy a car with heated seats.

George Carlin was right about the illusion of freedom and the illusion of choice. You don't have any.
2013-08-21 12:02:11 PM  
1 votes:
OK, since none of the Manning supporters seem to know what he actually leaked, here's a synopsis. The attack helicopter video (which Manning's lawyers argued had already been released, so what's the big deal?) War logs from Iraq with names of Iraqis who talked to us, putting their lives in danger. War logs from Afghanistan, with names redacted. Diplomatic cables that often embarrassed foreign governments because their private conversations didn't match their public statements (duh; that's sometimes how diplomacy works).

No war crimes. No evidence of overclassification. The most "damning' claim about the war logs is that they supposedly show a higher level of civilian deaths than the high-level assessments of the war. That claim has never been proven, despite those documents being in the hands of many major news outlets, some antagonistic to the U.S.
2013-08-21 11:58:37 AM  
1 votes:

FrankenPC: I sincerely everyone keeps this in mind:  The courts didn't throw Manning in jail.  They threw US in jail.  You see, no one really cares what happens to one individual.  But they do want to make damn sure there are no copycats out there.  So, the 35 years behind bars thing is a message TO US.  SUBMIT, DON'T QUESTION, WE HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL, IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.


Yes. I believe this is exactly what you sign up for when you enlist. In any military, at any time, anywhere in the world. This is not a secret.
2013-08-21 11:56:13 AM  
1 votes:
Maybe he'll get pardoned like Scooter did
2013-08-21 11:50:59 AM  
1 votes:

bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.


(with a sigh)....Sorry bdub, but that ship sailed several years ago.  I suggest you pick up a copy of "The Prince."  Even though it was written 500 years ago, it's an extraordinary blueprint for keeping the population in check.
2013-08-21 11:45:59 AM  
1 votes:
I expected that he would get jail time..
After all remember how long the sentenced the guys who committed war crimes in Abu Ghriab for.
Oh wait.
2013-08-21 11:42:09 AM  
1 votes:

Lady J: i wonder what the venn diagram of attitude to guns and attitude to bradley manning sentence looks like


sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-08-21 11:40:01 AM  
1 votes:
i wonder what the venn diagram of attitude to guns and attitude to bradley manning sentence looks like
2013-08-21 11:37:40 AM  
1 votes:

SuperTramp: dittybopper

Releasing secret documents irrespective of whether they show US wrongdoing or not is bad.

The Pentagon Papers.


There is a difference between leaking a single (though large) classified summary of a war totalling at most 7,000 pages, and releasing something like three quarters of a *MILLION* documents without even an attempt to filter out those that might be irrelevant to US wrongdoing.

Also, I'd point out that the actual leaker of the Pentagon Papers was in the process of being prosecuted for it, but the charges were thrown out because the investigation by the government involved illegal wiretapping of the suspect, Daniel Ellsberg, and therefore much of the evidence against him was the "fruit of the poisoned tree" and thus inadmissible in court.

There was no such problem with Bradley Manning, and I'm willing to bet if the evidence against Ellsberg hadn't been collected in an unconstitutional matter, he would have been convicted.

There are also other differences:  Bradley Manning was subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  You lose many of your rights when you sign up for the military.  Daniel Ellsberg was a civilian at the time he leaked the papers.
2013-08-21 11:35:45 AM  
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?


Those were State Department diplomatic cables, and they were properly classified because disclosure could damage relations with the countries we were talking about. Classification is done page by page, and nothing is exempt from FOIA; they just redact the classified parts. It's a violation of FOIA to store classified material with lower-classified material in order to conceal the releasable stuff (although Cheney violated that all the time).
2013-08-21 11:33:50 AM  
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?


DoD's national security exemption was abused from the get-go. For those not familiar, the first use of the national security exception was in response to a lawsuit over a B-29 crash. Decades later, it turned out that there was no actual national security interest - the military just didn't want to get sued. So DoD certainly abuses its classification authority. Most of the "unnecessary" classifications are because it's simply easier to be safe than sorry than it is to spend the time and man-hours to figure out if something should be classified.

But that's not the point. I can put my skid-marked tighty-whities in a safe. That doesn't mean that some guy cracking into my safe is now innocent of a crime.
2013-08-21 11:25:43 AM  
1 votes:

WhoopAssWayne: They tortured him into a confession and an apology. This 'conviction' doesn't mean jack sh*t in terms of justice.

1. Political 'crimes' must be heard by a civilian court, not court martial
2. Jurors must always review and approve plea bargains for fairness, and have the ability to force a trial
3. Jurors must have the power to subpoena, fine, and imprison government officials for misconduct, including torture


Please explain how this is 'political'?  He violated regulation by releasing classified documents.  That's a one-way ticket to Court Martial.
2013-08-21 11:24:43 AM  
1 votes:
The sentence is totally appropriate, but I still feel sorry for the stupid, naive kid. He signed up. He was aware of the rules. Why the fark didn't he just release the farking helicopter video?
I hope he gets out early, anyway.
2013-08-21 11:24:31 AM  
1 votes:

r1niceboy: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

It's always good to see a citizen showing the proper levels of due deference, unquestioning loyalty, and the prescribed levels of bitterness. Well done, sir, you rank highly on our lists. And believe me, we observe a great many citizens when checking our lists for compliance.


In his defense, Manning is quite literally a traitor.  Military personnel who release classified data and put people at risk are, by definition, traitors or spies, take your pick.
2013-08-21 11:24:20 AM  
1 votes:
They tortured him into a confession and an apology. This 'conviction' doesn't mean jack sh*t in terms of justice.

1. Political 'crimes' must be heard by a civilian court, not court martial
2. Jurors must always review and approve plea bargains for fairness, and have the ability to force a trial
3. Jurors must have the power to subpoena, fine, and imprison government officials for misconduct, including torture
2013-08-21 11:22:32 AM  
1 votes:

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Carth


It will be interesting to see if Obama pardons him on his last day in office.

This will not happen because of the spring board it could give the GOP on how if you aren't Republican you are a terrorist, traitor or sympathizer.


No, it wont happen because Obama would very much like for whiatleblowers to go to prison and suffer for daring to expose the state's actions.
2013-08-21 11:17:33 AM  
1 votes:

LasersHurt: Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.

If you're a guy who thinks false equivalencies like this are somehow clever, stop it. Stop. No.


Ah, "False Equivalency."  The last and desperate cry of someone confronted with their own hypocrisy.
2013-08-21 11:17:18 AM  
1 votes:
Incidents like this will end up increasing.  There are a few individuals in the world who will risk everything to follow a path they think is right.
People will not agree with it and that is fine.  But it will keep happening.
The government has lost the moral high ground by violating the spirit of the constitution and that is why.

Glad I was never in a position to be tempted to do something like this.
2013-08-21 11:14:46 AM  
1 votes:

Lady J: so if you have evidence that your employer breaks the law, but you've signed a contract keeping everything you see at work secret, what are you supposed to do?


Among other things, release only the stuff pertinent to him breaking the law?

Again. He released a lot of shiat *that did not have to do with US wrongdoing*. Things that contained, *unredacted*, the names of, say, informants who were tipping off the US to terror plots.

shiat that you kind of want to keep secret to keep *folks, and their families from getting murdered*.
2013-08-21 11:13:32 AM  
1 votes:

IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.


still mad bro? Proof is a motherfarker
2013-08-21 11:11:34 AM  
1 votes:

Charletron: He's not a hero, nor is he a traitor. He's a dumb kid.


I'd be willing to give him some latitude if he had been selective in his releases, even as misguided as they were. But 250k documents? At some point, it really is possible to be criminally stupid.
2013-08-21 11:11:12 AM  
1 votes:
a57.foxnews.com
Meanwhile, these three bastards will prolly get out in less than 12.
2013-08-21 11:11:08 AM  
1 votes:

Carth: This just in: if you break the law and get caught there is a good chance you'll go to jail!


si.wsj.net
"Oh, aren't you cute!"
2013-08-21 11:10:52 AM  
1 votes:
Eddie Adams from Torrance:

RIP Eli Manning

d23:

Eli Manning

Peyton Manning



You guys must be new here.
2013-08-21 11:10:15 AM  
1 votes:
I don't know a ton about this case but what I do is messed up. I agree that the dude broke the law and jail time seems fair. But at the same time what kind of crappy computer system does the US Army have where it allows someone to bring a writable CD to their computer which is used for military intelligence and start burning stuff onto it without any kind of checking or alarm going off?
2013-08-21 11:10:04 AM  
1 votes:
Pour encourager les autres
2013-08-21 11:09:46 AM  
1 votes:

elffster: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

So....telling folks about war crimes that US troops commit is bad...right, gotcha.

Moran.


What "war crimes" did he expose?

Do tell.

I watched RT news show the same tired clip over and over again.  War is hell and sometimes innocent people die.  It doesn't make it a war crime.
2013-08-21 11:08:43 AM  
1 votes:

ModernPrimitive01: a sad day for justice indeed


Nah - 35 years was enough. No need for 60.
2013-08-21 11:06:57 AM  
1 votes:
a sad day for justice indeed
2013-08-21 11:06:46 AM  
1 votes:
bdub77: I can't help but feel a little sad about the whole thing. Our government is doing a lot of shady sh*t and these guys are exposing them for it, and this is what they get for it.

There isn't even a way to expose the government now for all this secret sh*t without being labeled a terrorist or traitor.

Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.


Agreed.  When you're releasing 250k documents, you really have no way of knowing what's in every one of those.  You're not whistle blowing, you're throwing shiat out and seeing what sticks.
2013-08-21 11:02:49 AM  
1 votes:
www.uu.edu
RIP Eli Manning
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 10:56:48 AM  
1 votes:

cman: Facebook is interesting today about this.

There are conspiracy theories claiming that he would get life no matter what (because the administration would intervene) and will be tortured the whole time


It would be a much better world if I could believe this was totally impossible.  Instead it gets relegated to "unlikely."
 
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