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(Huffington Post) NewsFlash Bradley Manning gets 35 years in the hole   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 422
    More: NewsFlash, Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks, David Coombs, revelations, Quantico, Fort Leavenworth, United Nations Special Rapporteur, Arab Uprisings  
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6524 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-08-22 12:40:09 AM  

Biological Ali: I'm sorry - this is the point at which I can no longer suspend my disbelief. I just have too hard a time believing that you actually feel, unironically, that the unintended deaths of civilians during a legitimate military action as "murder".


A war crime is a serious violation of the laws applicable in armed conflict (also known as international humanitarian law) giving rise to individual criminal responsibility. Examples of war crimes include "murder
 
2013-08-22 01:01:52 AM  

BullBearMS: A war crime is a serious violation of the laws applicable in armed conflict (also known as international humanitarian law) giving rise to individual criminal responsibility. Examples of war crimes include "murder


Bill Harkleroad, known professionally as Zoot Horn Rollo (born December 12, 1948),[1] is an American Guitarist. He is best known for his work with Captain Beefheart and the Magic Band. In 2003 he was ranked #62 in a Rolling Stone Magazine list of "the 100 greatest guitarists of all time".[2]
 
2013-08-22 03:43:26 AM  

Joe Blowme: cman: vpb: skinnycatullus: That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.

It seems a bit much.  His defense actually had a point when they pointed out that he shouldn't have had a security clearance because the Army knew he had mental problems.

What mental issues?

I haven't kept up on the case that much but the only mental issues I have heard was someone claiming his transgenderism was a mental illness.

isn't it? Or is it a physical mutation? Or brain chemical imbalance?


Nope. It isn't.
It's an orientation as legitimate as homosexuality.
 
2013-08-22 05:09:55 AM  
"Bradley Manning acted on the belief that he could spark a meaningful public debate on the costs of war, and specifically on the conduct of the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan,"

Which is exactly why the US government had to silence him.
 
2013-08-22 06:38:22 AM  

Biological Ali: PunGent: Biological Ali: PunGent: Not really. Years after the fact, and the prosecution couldn't name ONE person who was even threatened, let alone actually harmed?

We're talking "abducted by aliens" levels of probability at this point.

When somebody does something reckless and it turns out with the benefit of hindsight that nobody was harmed as a result on that particular occasion, that person doesn't just a pass.

Actually, depending on the particular offense and jurisdiction, sometimes they DO get a pass.
 (Why, it's almost like I'm a lawyer or something.)


Again, no problem with the final sentencing here...I'm responding to those who think he was UNDER charged, mostly.

Sure, but we're not even talking about charging and sentencing. You were, apparently, taking issue with somebody who stated that:

Yeah, as much as I love a good whistle blower, who knows it's conceivable that people's lives could have been put in danger.  At BEST it's reckless and irresponsible.

That person was absolutely correct. Sensible people simply don't judge recklessness and irresponsibility by looking at outcomes with the benefit of hindsight - if somebody indiscriminately reveals information related to informants, that action doesn't magically become not reckless or irresponsible if none of those informants are harmed within some arbitrary time frame.


No, but legally it tends to become LESS reckless or irresponsible.

It's like the difference between driving drunk but not getting into an accident, and driving drunk and killing a schoolbus full of orphans.

Drunk A is getting a lesser penalty, most places...and I think that's OK.
 
2013-08-22 08:12:41 AM  
It's not death, but it's not bad
 
2013-08-22 10:17:51 AM  

vygramul: PunGent: Again, no problem with the final sentencing here...I'm responding to those who think he was UNDER charged, mostly.

I don't think he was under charged. I think this worked out pretty much as it should have. Maybe even a little in the upper-end of the range of what seems to me to be reasonable.


Agreed.  (fist bump)
 
2013-08-22 10:19:54 AM  

cegorach: It's always interesting to read how prior to WW2 so many Americans were heavily pro-fascist and thrilled about the fantastic authoritianism of Hitler and Mussolini.

And here are their descendants, applauding the imprisonment of a whistleblower.

Your country All countries has have a rotten, jackboot-licking core. Such a shame.


FTFY.

"The dark cloud of fascism...always descending on America, yet somehow always landing on Europe..."
 
2013-08-22 10:24:31 AM  

sudo give me more cowbell: Joe Blowme: cman: vpb: skinnycatullus: That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.

It seems a bit much.  His defense actually had a point when they pointed out that he shouldn't have had a security clearance because the Army knew he had mental problems.

What mental issues?

I haven't kept up on the case that much but the only mental issues I have heard was someone claiming his transgenderism was a mental illness.

isn't it? Or is it a physical mutation? Or brain chemical imbalance?

Nope. It isn't.
It's an orientation as legitimate as homosexuality.


In fact, it's demonstrable. Turns out the brains of transgendered persons are physically the same as the gender they are asserting. Ever wonder what it's like to have your brain put into a body of a different gender? Ask a transgendered person. They'll tell you.
 
2013-08-22 10:26:02 AM  

chiett: Manning violated his oath. Period.
His reason are not relevant.
So.............Bye!


Probably.

Query:  How do you feel about the Pentagon Papers case?

Corollary:  do you think it's OK for the Army to lie to it's own chain of command, and its civilian overseers?

/sometimes, reasons ARE relevant
//you are still free to disagree with those reasons, mock them, etc.
 
2013-08-22 10:27:10 AM  

jim32rr: It's not death, but it's not bad


Let's see if any of the war crimes that were in the data dump are prosecuted.  Equal justice for all.
 
2013-08-22 10:34:03 AM  

2wolves: jim32rr: It's not death, but it's not bad

Let's see if any of the war crimes that were in the data dump are prosecuted.  Equal justice for all.


Just for clarity's sake, is there anything OTHER than the Collateral Murder video that is asserted to be a war crime?
 
2013-08-22 12:22:22 PM  
Now Manning says he wants to live the rest of his life as a woman.

Good for him, because as a small man going to a big prison, that was going to happen anyway.
 
2013-08-22 01:14:24 PM  

studebaker hoch: Now Manning says he wants to live the rest of his life as a woman.

Good for him, because as a small man going to a big prison, that was going to happen anyway.


Because prison rape is really justice and not a dim witted revenge fantasy.
 
2013-08-22 01:15:48 PM  

vygramul: 2wolves: jim32rr: It's not death, but it's not bad

Let's see if any of the war crimes that were in the data dump are prosecuted.  Equal justice for all.

Just for clarity's sake, is there anything OTHER than the Collateral Murder video that is asserted to be a war crime?


Depends on who you ask.  Some folks say yes while others say no, and still there's a third group that just wants to change the subject.
 
2013-08-22 01:55:04 PM  
The mods should change the insensitive headline now that she wants to be known as Chelsea.
 
2013-08-22 01:59:39 PM  

Carth: The mods should change the insensitive headline now that she wants to be known as Chelsea.


Does not matter, he is soon to be forgotten and another name will take his place in the headlines
 
2013-08-22 09:08:17 PM  

Carth: dervish16108: Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.

There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!

How much money should be spent prosecuting someone who would instantly be pardoned if found guilty?


Let Obama pardon him, then. That's on Obama's conscience. We already spend tons more on an unlawful surveillance program than we'd spend prosecuting anyone for a crime. Why do we always have to acquiesce to injustice?
 
2013-08-22 09:37:35 PM  

dervish16108: Let Obama pardon him, then. That's on Obama's conscience. We already spend tons more on an unlawful surveillance program than we'd spend prosecuting anyone for a crime. Why do we always have to acquiesce to injustice?


Seems a better use for the money would be bringing the 'unlawful surveillance' programs before the SCOTUS. However if they rule in favor of them I don't think people will stop complaining about them just because they are ruled legal.
 
2013-08-22 09:43:30 PM  

Carth: dervish16108: Let Obama pardon him, then. That's on Obama's conscience. We already spend tons more on an unlawful surveillance program than we'd spend prosecuting anyone for a crime. Why do we always have to acquiesce to injustice?

Seems a better use for the money would be bringing the 'unlawful surveillance' programs before the SCOTUS. However if they rule in favor of them I don't think people will stop complaining about them just because they are ruled legal.


The costs of bringing charges against Clapper AND bringing the unlawful surveillance programs before the SCOTUS are insignificant compared to the prices of these programs and our war ventures that at least partially justify these programs. If they are ruled legal, then the SCOTUS will demonstrate itself to be a kangaroo court. If the people don't stop complaining about these programs and they are declared and/or reaffirmed to be legal, then it is crystal clear that we live under tyranny.
 
2013-08-22 10:06:36 PM  

jim32rr: Carth: The mods should change the insensitive headline now that she wants to be known as Chelsea.

Does not matter, he is soon to be forgotten and another name will take his place in the headlines


And the MSM will fall in line and the White House will fall in line, and most of the U.S. will not give a damn,
 
2013-08-22 11:38:55 PM  

2wolves: vygramul: 2wolves: jim32rr: It's not death, but it's not bad

Let's see if any of the war crimes that were in the data dump are prosecuted.  Equal justice for all.

Just for clarity's sake, is there anything OTHER than the Collateral Murder video that is asserted to be a war crime?

Depends on who you ask.  Some folks say yes while others say no, and still there's a third group that just wants to change the subject.


Well, what is it?
 
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