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(Huffington Post) NewsFlash Bradley Manning gets 35 years in the hole   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 422
    More: NewsFlash, Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks, David Coombs, revelations, Quantico, Fort Leavenworth, United Nations Special Rapporteur, Arab Uprisings  
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6524 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-08-21 01:08:35 PM  

gaslight: mbillips:
Yeah, because if you're standing next to a guy holding a rifle or RPG, the people who want to kill that guy should just call "Time Out! Journalists on the battlefield! No fighting today!"

Which might work if you also hadn't been bombing and strafing the allied nations that go in with you. Only imperial stormtroopers are so precise. As far back as 2005, only two years after the invasion, a dozen journalists had been killed and even CNN was asking if this was deliberate.

(Won't post links to blood spattered camera gear as people are just coming back from lunch.)


CNN asking about stuff is not a recommendation as to its meaningfulness.
 
2013-08-21 01:08:56 PM  

MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]


Does this picture help any?

farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2013-08-21 01:10:01 PM  

MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]


Now THAT is funny, claiming the GOP encompasses much of the center. Wow.
 
2013-08-21 01:14:10 PM  

vygramul: MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]

Now THAT is funny, claiming the GOP encompasses much of the center. Wow.


Wait, this isn't the politics tab. I'm not going to get involved in this one.
 
2013-08-21 01:14:12 PM  
 
2013-08-21 01:23:36 PM  

Ant: ManateeGag: considering "Death" could have been on the table, that's not that bad.   is there the possibility for early release?

Do you really think death is still something that could be given for this type of thing? I don't think that would fly anymore.


for the most serious of charges against him when he went to trial, the penalty is death.  For what they found him guilty of, no.   no death penalty.  For what he was charged with initially, yes, they would have hung (hanged?) him if they found him guilty.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:25 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: ShadowKamui: Lionel Mandrake: vygramul: mbillips: Cubicle Jockey: Lionel Mandrake: I guess Bradley Manning's crimes are almost twice as bad as running a slave-labor industry as Nazi Minister of Armaments.

William Calley served 3.5 years of house arrestfor his conviction of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.
.
Manning might serve ten times that amount in prison.

Calley was sentenced to life in Leavenworth by the Army, but Nixon had him transferred to house arrest and later pardoned him. The morale of the story? Don't vote for Nixon.

No wonder Republicans are so worried Obama will pardon Manning. That's what they would do.

I hope he does, just before leaving office.  Three and a half years on top of time-served is good for me.

What deluded fantasy land are you living in?  Obama is probably the worst anti-whistleblower president in the history of the US.  He's probably sad that he couldn't personally execute Manning, the last thing he's going to do is pardon Manning

Um...the fantasy land where I'm allowed to express a hope, I guess.


The word you're looking for is mental illness not hope
 
2013-08-21 01:31:09 PM  
Did anybody notice the part where the longstanding claims asshats have been making that he had BLOOD ON HIS HANDS!! were shown to be bullshiat?

The sentencing phase of Manning's trial revealed that contrary to the claims of pundits and politicians, Manning had no blood on his hands -- the Departments of Defense and State were unable to tie his releases to the deaths of any U.S. informants.

He revealed illegal behavior on the part of our military up and down the chain of command.

Iraqi civilians were murdered. Nothing was done.

Our troops who reported torture were told to stand down and their reports were illegally ignored.

That's whistle blowing.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Meanwhile...

The officer in charge of interrogations at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, where prisoners were abused and humiliated, has been cited for two counts of dereliction of duty, received a formal reprimand and an $8,000 fine, Army officials said yesterday.

In case you've forgotten what all went on in Abu Ghraib:

From late 2003 to early 2004, during the War in Iraq, military police personnel of the United States Army and the Central Intelligence Agency[1] committed human rights violations against prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison. They physically and sexually abused, tortured,[2][3][4] raped,[2][3] sodomized,[4] and killed[5] prisoners.

A wrist slap fine for overseeing murder, but decades in prison for blowing the whistle on torture?

Seems legit.
 
2013-08-21 01:36:11 PM  
35 years feels fair to me , i would prefer he was in ineligible  for early release though.
 
2013-08-21 01:46:21 PM  

ShadowKamui: Lionel Mandrake: ShadowKamui: Lionel Mandrake: vygramul: mbillips: Cubicle Jockey: Lionel Mandrake: I guess Bradley Manning's crimes are almost twice as bad as running a slave-labor industry as Nazi Minister of Armaments.

William Calley served 3.5 years of house arrestfor his conviction of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.
.
Manning might serve ten times that amount in prison.

Calley was sentenced to life in Leavenworth by the Army, but Nixon had him transferred to house arrest and later pardoned him. The morale of the story? Don't vote for Nixon.

No wonder Republicans are so worried Obama will pardon Manning. That's what they would do.

I hope he does, just before leaving office.  Three and a half years on top of time-served is good for me.

What deluded fantasy land are you living in?  Obama is probably the worst anti-whistleblower president in the history of the US.  He's probably sad that he couldn't personally execute Manning, the last thing he's going to do is pardon Manning

Um...the fantasy land where I'm allowed to express a hope, I guess.

The word you're looking for is mental illness not hope


You have a laughably broad definition of mental illness.  Which may itself be a mental illness.
 
2013-08-21 01:48:32 PM  
Oh, I should point out that the officer who oversaw torture at Abu Ghraib was never even prosecuted, even though people died under torture.

The $8,000 fine was from a disciplinary hearing.

There never was a trial for the torture and murder he oversaw.
 
2013-08-21 01:49:08 PM  

MOGGEE: [a57.foxnews.com image 660x371]
Meanwhile, these three bastards will prolly get out in less than 12.


I find it odd that nothing was greenlit on this story since it developed.  I could be wrong.
 
2013-08-21 01:54:17 PM  
What Sentence Would Snowden Face If He Returned To The US?
 
2013-08-21 01:54:28 PM  

vygramul: MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]

Now THAT is funny, claiming the GOP encompasses much of the center. Wow.


Wow.  Reality hurts you, doesn't it.  Your average citizen is slightly conservative.
 
2013-08-21 02:01:48 PM  

Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.


There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!
 
2013-08-21 02:04:26 PM  

dervish16108: Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.

There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!


There's plenty of proof that the fraudulent bankers who destroyed our economy broke the law, including many convictions in civil trials.

Obama sure refused to prosecute any of them.
 
2013-08-21 02:05:29 PM  

ManateeGag: vygramul: Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

THIS!


But no harm? It might have been stupid, but not 35 years stupid. Fall in line, citizen, or you're next.
 
2013-08-21 02:06:25 PM  
Poor Katy
www.standard.co.uk
 
2013-08-21 02:21:53 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: ShadowKamui: Lionel Mandrake: ShadowKamui: Lionel Mandrake: vygramul: mbillips: Cubicle Jockey: Lionel Mandrake: I guess Bradley Manning's crimes are almost twice as bad as running a slave-labor industry as Nazi Minister of Armaments.

William Calley served 3.5 years of house arrestfor his conviction of murdering 22 Vietnamese civilians at My Lai.
.
Manning might serve ten times that amount in prison.

Calley was sentenced to life in Leavenworth by the Army, but Nixon had him transferred to house arrest and later pardoned him. The morale of the story? Don't vote for Nixon.

No wonder Republicans are so worried Obama will pardon Manning. That's what they would do.

I hope he does, just before leaving office.  Three and a half years on top of time-served is good for me.

What deluded fantasy land are you living in?  Obama is probably the worst anti-whistleblower president in the history of the US.  He's probably sad that he couldn't personally execute Manning, the last thing he's going to do is pardon Manning

Um...the fantasy land where I'm allowed to express a hope, I guess.

The word you're looking for is mental illness not hope

You have a laughably broad definition of mental illness.  Which may itself be a mental illness.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

That's pretty much you in a nut shell if you have any serious belief that Obama is going to do a complete 180 and suddenly pardon Manning
 
2013-08-21 02:26:16 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: vygramul: MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]

Now THAT is funny, claiming the GOP encompasses much of the center. Wow.

Wow.  Reality hurts you, doesn't it.  Your average citizen is slightly conservative.


Yes, yes, I'm sure. You keep right on with that assumption. It's adorable.
 
2013-08-21 02:33:32 PM  

LucklessWonder: What Sentence Would Snowden Face If He Returned To The US?


Hard to say, because we still don't know what all he stole.  AFAIK, we're all pretty sure of the extent of Manning's thefts.
 
2013-08-21 02:36:04 PM  

Carth: This just in: if you break the law and get caught there is a good chance you'll go to jail!


And if the government breaks the law and gets caught....?
 
2013-08-21 02:36:11 PM  
He should have gotten 100 years, but got off with 35. Every dog has his day i guess.
 
2013-08-21 02:51:17 PM  

robbiex0r: Carth: This just in: if you break the law and get caught there is a good chance you'll go to jail!

And if the government breaks the law and gets caught....?


Shhhh...

We're all supposed to pretend it doesn't matter that the rich and powerful, and those working in their interests are not even prosecuted for their crimes.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-08-21 02:52:46 PM  

mechgreg: I don't know a ton about this case but what I do is messed up. I agree that the dude broke the law and jail time seems fair. But at the same time what kind of crappy computer system does the US Army have where it allows someone to bring a writable CD to their computer which is used for military intelligence and start burning stuff onto it without any kind of checking or alarm going off?


Sounds like someone that has never worked with classified material.  CDs are the only media that would even have the remotest chance of working.  USB sticks, external hard drives, flash media, cell phones all are banned and will flag immediately.
 
2013-08-21 03:19:05 PM  
LasersHurt

Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.

If you're a guy who thinks false equivalencies like this are somehow clever, stop it. Stop. No.

That's g.d. right. It's only heroic when a republican is in office. When a democrat attacks innocent americans it's a necessity.

upl.co
 
2013-08-21 03:20:38 PM  
If only Manning had done something innocent and harmless, like covering up the friendly fire death of a fellow soldier, he wouldn't be in this mess!
 
2013-08-21 03:24:45 PM  

LucklessWonder: What Sentence Would Snowden Face If He Returned To The US?


The way were heading?  Public stoning to death.
 
2013-08-21 03:25:14 PM  
With time served, he's eligible for parole in FIVE YEARS. Waaaay better than I was expecting.

And the world gets to laugh derisively every time a US official (or citizen) proclaims that OTHER countries need more transparency and press freedom.

Pathetic.
 
2013-08-21 03:28:47 PM  
Mirrors my sentiments

Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project:

When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system. A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate.
 
2013-08-21 03:31:13 PM  

jakomo002: Mirrors my sentiments

Ben Wizner, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Speech, Privacy & Technology Project:

When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system. A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation will not only produce unjust results, but will deprive the public of critical information that is necessary for democratic accountability. This is a sad day for Bradley Manning, but it's also a sad day for all Americans who depend on brave whistleblowers and a free press for a fully informed public debate.


this, This, THIS, THIS
 
2013-08-21 03:43:27 PM  

jakomo002: A legal system that doesn't distinguish between leaks to the press in the public interest and treason against the nation


It's not like being personally unable to distinguish between the two is a good life choice, either.
 
2013-08-21 03:44:25 PM  

MadMattressMack: EyeballKid: Aristocles: Me too. I lean libertarian, and, believe it or not, a little to the right

You said "Republican" twice.

Maybe pictures will help

[www.placergop.org image 555x532]


That picture must be of some OTHER Republican party...the one I'm familiar with has expanded the size of the state whenever they've been in charge lately.    Let's put it this way:  their most impressive accomplishment is actually making the Democrats look palatable.
 
2013-08-21 03:46:48 PM  

nekom: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

Yeah, as much as I love a good whistle blower, who knows it's conceivable that people's lives could have been put in danger.  At BEST it's reckless and irresponsible.


Not really.  Years after the fact, and the prosecution couldn't name ONE person who was even threatened, let alone actually harmed?

We're talking "abducted by aliens" levels of probability at this point.
 
2013-08-21 03:47:44 PM  

freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.


Go re-read your Constitution.

- Thanks, the Founding Fathers.
 
2013-08-21 03:50:55 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: It's longer than the American Taliban.  He got 20.


Now THERE was a chickenshiat case.  He got charged for aiding the Taliban?  fine...lock him up AFTER you lock up every congressman who gave the Taliban money for years.

And the grenade charge?  in Afghanistan, never mind illegal, they're practically part of the dress code, ffs.
 
2013-08-21 04:01:24 PM  

PunGent: nekom: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

Yeah, as much as I love a good whistle blower, who knows it's conceivable that people's lives could have been put in danger.  At BEST it's reckless and irresponsible.

Not really.  Years after the fact, and the prosecution couldn't name ONE person who was even threatened, let alone actually harmed?

We're talking "abducted by aliens" levels of probability at this point.


Yabut Manning didn't know that. Just because it turns out the person's house you shot up was empty doesn't mean that you weren't reckless and irresponsible.
 
2013-08-21 04:02:02 PM  

PunGent: JohnAnnArbor: It's longer than the American Taliban.  He got 20.

Now THERE was a chickenshiat case.  He got charged for aiding the Taliban?  fine...lock him up AFTER you lock up every congressman who gave the Taliban money for years.


There's a difference between hoping you can bribe someone into not attacking you and giving money to someone who is.
 
2013-08-21 04:05:01 PM  

PunGent: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

Go re-read your Constitution.

- Thanks, the Founding Fathers.


img360.imageshack.us

Some people use "traitor" in the dictionary definition of, "1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty," rather than, "2: one who commits treason"

i179.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 04:12:24 PM  

robbiex0r: Carth: This just in: if you break the law and get caught there is a good chance you'll go to jail!

And if the government breaks the law and gets caught....?


Than they change the law. That is the nice thing about being the people who decide what is legal.
 
2013-08-21 04:13:25 PM  

dervish16108: Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.

There is proof General James Clapper broke the law when he was under oath and lied to US Congress about surveillance. Where's his indictment? Oh wait, he got promoted to chair the NSA oversight committee!


How much money should be spent prosecuting someone who would instantly be pardoned if found guilty?
 
2013-08-21 04:16:52 PM  

vygramul: PunGent: freak7: make me some tea: Damn. I can't even crack a joke about that.

I can, screw the traitor.

Go re-read your Constitution.

- Thanks, the Founding Fathers.

[img360.imageshack.us image 122x91]

Some people use "traitor" in the dictionary definition of, "1: one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty," rather than, "2: one who commits treason"

[i179.photobucket.com image 325x214]


Would it make sense to call him a traitor to the U.S. government, but a whistleblower for the American people? Because I believe those two things are both true.
 
2013-08-21 04:19:03 PM  

make me some tea: Would it make sense to call him a traitor to the U.S. government, but a whistleblower for the American people? Because I believe those two things are both true.


If he had only released stuff pertaining to potential war crimes, I could see that. But he didn't. He betrayed the trust not only the government put in him, but the American people, to use discretion rather than vomiting out any secret he could get his hands on.
 
2013-08-21 04:24:27 PM  

make me some tea: Would it make sense to call him a traitor to the U.S. government, but a whistleblower for the American people? Because I believe those two things are both true.


Worse. An EMBARASSMENT to the government.

He thought he was exposing atrocities and things the public needed to know about what the government was doing in America's name.  Something about Consent of the Governed.

The US government saw it as profoundly embarrassing and severely punished him for it.  They weren't hiding stuff from the world , they were hiding it from the American public.
 
2013-08-21 04:31:38 PM  

vygramul: make me some tea: Would it make sense to call him a traitor to the U.S. government, but a whistleblower for the American people? Because I believe those two things are both true.

If he had only released stuff pertaining to potential war crimes, I could see that. But he didn't. He betrayed the trust not only the government put in him, but the American people, to use discretion rather than vomiting out any secret he could get his hands on.


Totally.  Stuff you have absolutely no right to know, citizen.  Actions by your military, in your name, and with your money and votes.

It's to keep you safe from the ugly, ugly truth that might upset you.  Better you don't know any of it so you can mean it when you wave your lil flag.

Goebbels would be beaming with pride
 
2013-08-21 04:33:31 PM  

jakomo002: vygramul: make me some tea: Would it make sense to call him a traitor to the U.S. government, but a whistleblower for the American people? Because I believe those two things are both true.

If he had only released stuff pertaining to potential war crimes, I could see that. But he didn't. He betrayed the trust not only the government put in him, but the American people, to use discretion rather than vomiting out any secret he could get his hands on.

Totally.  Stuff you have absolutely no right to know, citizen.  Actions by your military, in your name, and with your money and votes.

It's to keep you safe from the ugly, ugly truth that might upset you.  Better you don't know any of it so you can mean it when you wave your lil flag.

Goebbels would be beaming with pride


That, of course, would be the kind of post that inspired Godwin.

You do know he released secrets unrelated to the military but to diplomacy, right?
 
2013-08-21 04:51:31 PM  

PunGent: Not really. Years after the fact, and the prosecution couldn't name ONE person who was even threatened, let alone actually harmed?

We're talking "abducted by aliens" levels of probability at this point.


When somebody does something reckless and it turns out with the benefit of hindsight that nobody was harmed as a result on that particular occasion, that person doesn't just a pass.
 
2013-08-21 04:53:15 PM  

vygramul: You do know he released secrets unrelated to the military but to diplomacy, right?


Yes.  EMBARASSING secrets that showed the US government was disrespectful of other countries' ambassadors and policies.  Nothing dangerous or deadly, just showing some of the arrogance and disrespect the US  diplomatic corps uses when representing the US around the world.

Again, embarrassments classified as secret because they're embarrassments, not secrets.
 
2013-08-21 05:00:38 PM  

vygramul: PunGent: nekom: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

Yeah, as much as I love a good whistle blower, who knows it's conceivable that people's lives could have been put in danger.  At BEST it's reckless and irresponsible.

Not really.  Years after the fact, and the prosecution couldn't name ONE person who was even threatened, let alone actually harmed?

We're talking "abducted by aliens" levels of probability at this point.

Yabut Manning didn't know that. Just because it turns out the person's house you shot up was empty doesn't mean that you weren't reckless and irresponsible.


True.  But I don't think he was charged with being "reckless and irresponsible".  :)

Again, I have no problem with Manning getting the book thrown at him...he volunteered, he's an adult, he knew the responsibilities that came with his clearance.
 
2013-08-21 05:02:14 PM  

vygramul: PunGent: JohnAnnArbor: It's longer than the American Taliban.  He got 20.

Now THERE was a chickenshiat case.  He got charged for aiding the Taliban?  fine...lock him up AFTER you lock up every congressman who gave the Taliban money for years.


There's a difference between hoping you can bribe someone into not attacking you and giving money to someone who is.


Sure...THAT difference means we can lock up Bush and every member of Congress who voted to pay Iraqi insurgents during the "Surge"

Give me that, you can keep Johnny locked up as long as you like   :)
 
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