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(Huffington Post) NewsFlash Bradley Manning gets 35 years in the hole   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 422
    More: NewsFlash, Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks, David Coombs, revelations, Quantico, Fort Leavenworth, United Nations Special Rapporteur, Arab Uprisings  
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6514 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 10:57 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-08-21 11:27:52 AM
Someone help me out here:
Does 35 years actually mean 35 years?

i.e. when civilians get sentenced to "X" years, it's almost always reduced with parole/good-behaviour/whatever, but I don't know how military courts work. He got credit for 3.5 years already served, so does that mean the day he's going to be able to walk around outside of guarded walls is actually 31.5 years from now?
 
2013-08-21 11:28:08 AM

LasersHurt: Cataholic: LasersHurt: Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.
If this was the guy who exposed the Obama bullshiat, you can rot, traitor.

If you're a guy who thinks false equivalencies like this are somehow clever, stop it. Stop. No.

Ah, "False Equivalency."  The last and desperate cry of someone confronted with their own hypocrisy.

Ah, "hypocrisy," the last and desperate cry of someone who got called out on a ridiculously oversimplified and pointless comparison.


It is simly impossible to over-simplify the simple-mindedness of this country's politically automatized  simpletons.
 
2013-08-21 11:28:17 AM

mbillips: m1ke: I like the idea that exposing the government's illegal activities is now considered treason.  U. S. A.! U. S. A.!

Do any of you Manning defenders actually have any examples of "illegal activities" that Manning exposed? I've yet to see one.


Trying to talk out Collateral Murder is like trying to have a conversation about a recent famous shooting. It descends into a shiatfest with no end in sight.
 
2013-08-21 11:28:21 AM

RangerTaylor: WhoopAssWayne: They tortured him into a confession and an apology. This 'conviction' doesn't mean jack sh*t in terms of justice.

1. Political 'crimes' must be heard by a civilian court, not court martial
2. Jurors must always review and approve plea bargains for fairness, and have the ability to force a trial
3. Jurors must have the power to subpoena, fine, and imprison government officials for misconduct, including torture

Please explain how this is 'political'?  He violated regulation by releasing classified documents.  That's a one-way ticket to Court Martial.


You don't understand. putting things in 'quotes' means you can just make shiat up and no one is allowed to call you on it. So what if Manning was a military personal who violated the UCMJ and tried in accordance with those laws.
 
2013-08-21 11:28:58 AM
...and this ladies and gentlemen ... is what happens if you are a patriot.
 
2013-08-21 11:29:20 AM
good.  next time dont betray your employer or country.


and if you do..

have the good sense to get the hell out of said country before they arrest you.
 
2013-08-21 11:29:26 AM

mcreadyblue: vygramul: Charletron: He's not a hero, nor is he a traitor. He's a dumb kid.

I'd be willing to give him some latitude if he had been selective in his releases, even as misguided as they were. But 250k documents? At some point, it really is possible to be criminally stupid.

You gotta admit the document about the "dancing boys" paid for by DynCorp to "entertain" Afgani leaders was pure gold.


Doesn't Larry Craig now work for DynCorp?
 
2013-08-21 11:30:11 AM

sudo give me more cowbell: Someone help me out here:
Does 35 years actually mean 35 years?

i.e. when civilians get sentenced to "X" years, it's almost always reduced with parole/good-behaviour/whatever, but I don't know how military courts work. He got credit for 3.5 years already served, so does that mean the day he's going to be able to walk around outside of guarded walls is actually 31.5 years from now?


reading the article....

its says he gets credit and they are apparently very generous with time off for good behaviour
 
2013-08-21 11:30:15 AM

sudo give me more cowbell: Someone help me out here:
Does 35 years actually mean 35 years?

i.e. when civilians get sentenced to "X" years, it's almost always reduced with parole/good-behaviour/whatever, but I don't know how military courts work. He got credit for 3.5 years already served, so does that mean the day he's going to be able to walk around outside of guarded walls is actually 31.5 years from now?


it's a 1000 word(give or take) article and it explains that part within the first 200.
 
2013-08-21 11:30:39 AM
He wanted to be a martyr for whatever reason and committed the first part when he released hundreds of thousands of classified documents without knowing what they contained. Now he has the second part. Good for him. If he thought this would have any other outcome he was seriously delusional.
 
2013-08-21 11:30:40 AM

Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?


We desperately need to reform how we classify data right now it is expensive and a pain in the butt for employees as well. Good luck getting the billions of dollars needed to revamp the IT infrastructure and clearance processes though since most politicians don't think it is much of a problem.
 
2013-08-21 11:30:42 AM

cman: vpb: skinnycatullus: That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.

It seems a bit much.  His defense actually had a point when they pointed out that he shouldn't have had a security clearance because the Army knew he had mental problems.

What mental issues?

I haven't kept up on the case that much but the only mental issues I have heard was someone claiming his transgenderism was a mental illness.


isn't it? Or is it a physical mutation? Or brain chemical imbalance?
 
2013-08-21 11:30:51 AM

d23: Eddie Adams from Torrance: [www.uu.edu image 275x391]
RIP Eli Manning

oh wow.  total, total failure.


Oops...

Let me try that again.

i236.photobucket.com
RIP Peyton Manning
 
2013-08-21 11:31:12 AM

Aristocles: Wait, Obama is actually going to pardon this POS?!

Wow.


No he isn't.
 
2013-08-21 11:32:20 AM

mbillips: m1ke: I like the idea that exposing the government's illegal activities is now considered treason.  U. S. A.! U. S. A.!

Do any of you Manning defenders actually have any examples of "illegal activities" that Manning exposed? I've yet to see one.


Some of the safeguards put into place after the Abu Grab photos got released were being ignored and prisoner abuse was still on going.  There were also a couple of oops our bad friendly fire incidents that they buried
 
2013-08-21 11:32:22 AM

spentshells: ManateeGag: considering "Death" could have been on the table, that's not that bad.   is there the possibility for early release?

25 years I'd rather be killed


No, he's up for parole in nine. Doubt he'll get it, though; he's gonna be a celebrity inmate just like the Manson family. Patricia Krenwinkle and Leslie Van Houton have practically become saints while in prison, but they're never getting out because the case is so high profile.
 
2013-08-21 11:32:40 AM

MadMattressMack: He wanted to be a martyr for whatever reason and committed the first part when he released hundreds of thousands of classified documents without knowing what they contained. Now he has the second part. Good for him. If he thought this would have any other outcome he was seriously delusional.


This is what happens when you give young idealistic kids a security clearance. They think if they just expose the truth people will rise up and overthrow the oppression and they'll be hailed as heroes!
 
2013-08-21 11:32:50 AM
He knew (or could have looked up easily) what the charges and sentences would be.  He also knew he would be caught easily.  So I guess he thought it was worth it.

Easily fooled dumbasses end up in jail all the time.  He's no different.

Some of the information he released is of use to the public, but the way he went about doing it and his apparent lack of any plan for how to avoid being caught means this is a fairly predictable and inevitable result.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:19 AM
RIP Ron Paul

/someone had to say it
 
2013-08-21 11:33:28 AM
cdn.streamzoo.com

Bradley go down the hooole.

/first thing I thought of.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:29 AM
Manning was wrong in doing what he did. His actions was clearly reckless...as well as the Monday Morning Quarterbacking that has gin on. The video tape of the Rueters reporters deaths, while sad, showed me that no matter how good technology gets, innocents will get harmed in war.

I couldn't tell that one guy had a TV camera, I thought it was a law rocket. It's one thing to do an analysis of a situation from the comfort of your desk... It's another thing to be in the feild.

As for Mannings motives, I think he was trying to do the right thing... But did it in the worse way possible.

Chances are, he'll be let out in 10 years for good behavior. One of the Falcon and snowman guys got out after a few years...far less time than what he was sentenced to.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:33 AM

MadMattressMack: He wanted to be a martyr for whatever reason and committed the first part when he released hundreds of thousands of classified documents without knowing what they contained. Now he has the second part. Good for him. If he thought this would have any other outcome he was seriously delusional.


This. It's one of the reasons why I don't have any sympathy towards him.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:50 AM

Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?


DoD's national security exemption was abused from the get-go. For those not familiar, the first use of the national security exception was in response to a lawsuit over a B-29 crash. Decades later, it turned out that there was no actual national security interest - the military just didn't want to get sued. So DoD certainly abuses its classification authority. Most of the "unnecessary" classifications are because it's simply easier to be safe than sorry than it is to spend the time and man-hours to figure out if something should be classified.

But that's not the point. I can put my skid-marked tighty-whities in a safe. That doesn't mean that some guy cracking into my safe is now innocent of a crime.
 
2013-08-21 11:33:56 AM
I just hope that she'll be able to start taking hormones in prison.  Being trapped in the wrong body is much worse than being trapped in federal prison.

/would know
 
2013-08-21 11:34:17 AM

Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.


does everything have to somehow involve George Zimmerman?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 11:34:42 AM

Nutsac_Jim: d23: Gee.. what are the odds that the people that throw around the term "statism" are the same people already crying "not enough" about the Bradly Manning sentence?

Some people just don't like treasonous activity.


AND corporate controlled oligarchy, I am guessing.
 
2013-08-21 11:34:45 AM
 
2013-08-21 11:35:31 AM
He should be thankful his ass wasn't drone striked.
 
2013-08-21 11:35:32 AM
I sincerely everyone keeps this in mind:  The courts didn't throw Manning in jail.  They threw US in jail.  You see, no one really cares what happens to one individual.  But they do want to make damn sure there are no copycats out there.  So, the 35 years behind bars thing is a message TO US.  SUBMIT, DON'T QUESTION, WE HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL, IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.
 
2013-08-21 11:35:34 AM

vygramul: Most of the "unnecessary" classifications are because it's simply easier to be safe than sorry than it is to spend the time and man-hours to figure out if something should be classified.


Also because if you're working on something it is usually easier to just save on the database your currently logged into. Oh that database contained classified files? Well yours is too now even if it didn't really need to be.
 
2013-08-21 11:35:38 AM
Fort Leavenworth
Joint Base Lewis-McChord
Fort Carson

So, which one will he end up in?
 
2013-08-21 11:35:45 AM

Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?


Those were State Department diplomatic cables, and they were properly classified because disclosure could damage relations with the countries we were talking about. Classification is done page by page, and nothing is exempt from FOIA; they just redact the classified parts. It's a violation of FOIA to store classified material with lower-classified material in order to conceal the releasable stuff (although Cheney violated that all the time).
 
2013-08-21 11:36:10 AM

Cletus C.: If this was the guy who exposed the Bush bullshiat, free this hero.


you sound butthurt, are you butthurt?
 
2013-08-21 11:36:14 AM

Myria: I just hope that she'll be able to start taking hormones in prison.  Being trapped in the wrong body is much worse than being trapped in federal prison.

/would know


Has Manning actually declared it, or are we speculating?
 
2013-08-21 11:36:44 AM
In the Military they don't care why you broke the rules only that you did. There kind of anal that way.
 
2013-08-21 11:36:48 AM
Sorry make that 8 (with time served)
 
2013-08-21 11:36:51 AM

Voiceofreason01: sudo give me more cowbell: Someone help me out here:
Does 35 years actually mean 35 years?

i.e. when civilians get sentenced to "X" years, it's almost always reduced with parole/good-behaviour/whatever, but I don't know how military courts work. He got credit for 3.5 years already served, so does that mean the day he's going to be able to walk around outside of guarded walls is actually 31.5 years from now?

it's a 1000 word(give or take) article and it explains that part within the first 200.


Crap. I read the article on CNN and nytimes and they didn't explain it. I came here assuming it was also missing from HuffPo.  Whaddaya know? HuffPo is more explanatory than CNN or nytimes, and I should read more before posting...
 
2013-08-21 11:37:29 AM
One helluva troll thread.
 
2013-08-21 11:37:33 AM
I'm wondering how many of the people here denigrating Manning for being too stupid to have an escape plan also called Snowden a coward for not staying to face the music.
 
2013-08-21 11:37:34 AM

vpb: skinnycatullus: That's actually something of a win for him. His attorneys were hoping for 25 yrs while the prosecution asked for 60.

It seems a bit much.  His defense actually had a point when they pointed out that he shouldn't have had a security clearance because the Army knew he had mental problems.


Actually it sounds about right to me:

Added to the military's extensive credits for good behavior, Manning could be eligible for parole in about 8 years, when he is 33.
 
2013-08-21 11:37:40 AM

SuperTramp: dittybopper

Releasing secret documents irrespective of whether they show US wrongdoing or not is bad.

The Pentagon Papers.


There is a difference between leaking a single (though large) classified summary of a war totalling at most 7,000 pages, and releasing something like three quarters of a *MILLION* documents without even an attempt to filter out those that might be irrelevant to US wrongdoing.

Also, I'd point out that the actual leaker of the Pentagon Papers was in the process of being prosecuted for it, but the charges were thrown out because the investigation by the government involved illegal wiretapping of the suspect, Daniel Ellsberg, and therefore much of the evidence against him was the "fruit of the poisoned tree" and thus inadmissible in court.

There was no such problem with Bradley Manning, and I'm willing to bet if the evidence against Ellsberg hadn't been collected in an unconstitutional matter, he would have been convicted.

There are also other differences:  Bradley Manning was subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  You lose many of your rights when you sign up for the military.  Daniel Ellsberg was a civilian at the time he leaked the papers.
 
2013-08-21 11:37:58 AM

FrankenPC: I sincerely everyone keeps this in mind:  The courts didn't throw Manning in jail.  They threw US in jail.  You see, no one really cares what happens to one individual.  But they do want to make damn sure there are no copycats out there.  So, the 35 years behind bars thing is a message TO US.  SUBMIT, DON'T QUESTION, WE HAVE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL, IF YOU DON'T COMPLY, THIS WILL HAPPEN TO YOU.


im still trying to understand the in's and out's of the whole thing (without making enormous effort, in fairness), but this is definitely true
 
2013-08-21 11:38:02 AM

2wolves: Fort Leavenworth
Joint Base Lewis-McChord
Fort Carson

So, which one will he end up in?


Reuters says Leavenworth.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:13 AM

2wolves: Fort Leavenworth
Joint Base Lewis-McChord
Fort Carson

So, which one will he end up in?


Relatively certain Leavenworth's the answer here.  They like to put the big names there.  And the reeeeal nasties.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:36 AM

ManateeGag: Carth: IlGreven: 35 years for a man who caused fewer deaths than George Zimmerman.

The difference being there is proof Manning broke the law. There is no proof Zimmerman did.

does everything have to somehow involve George Zimmerman?


No shiat. I think I'll petition Drew to have mentioning him in an unrelated thread be filtered to randomly replace Zimmerman with Trayvon and vice-versa. (Sorry, WWI now has a Trayvon Telegram.)
 
2013-08-21 11:38:38 AM

Carth: Voiceofreason01: vygramul:
Had he simply released stuff that concerned him, I could have written it off as misguided at worst. Dumping 250k documents without knowing the contents thereof is not exposing shady shiat. It's showing depraved indifference.

So how do you feel about the Defense Department classifying all of those documents and exempting them from the FOIA without regards to their contents?

We desperately need to reform how we classify data right now it is expensive and a pain in the butt for employees as well. Good luck getting the billions of dollars needed to revamp the IT infrastructure and clearance processes though since most politicians don't think it is much of a problem.


because if there's one arm of the US Government that's chronically underfunded it's the Department of Defense.

/The attitude that it's OK to classify basic operational information about the US Government or to classify something simply because it might make the USA look bad(and then exempt said info from the FOIA on national defense grounds) is a problem.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:50 AM
Well, that'll make sure nobody hates us for our freedom for quite some time.
 
2013-08-21 11:38:54 AM
He will be found hanging in his cell in a week.
 
2013-08-21 11:39:51 AM
img.fark.net
 
2013-08-21 11:40:01 AM
i wonder what the venn diagram of attitude to guns and attitude to bradley manning sentence looks like
 
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