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(WFAA Fort Worth)   Fort Hood shooter Hasan presents his defense:   (wfaa.com) divider line 71
    More: Obvious, Maj. Nidal Hasan, witness testimony, U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, premeditated murder  
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4494 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 12:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 01:26:32 PM  
Non-Judicial punishment under Article 15 of the UCMJ must be accepted by the accused or refused and demand trial by Court Martial.  It also has rank limits and who can oversee the proceeding.  E1-E4 can be performed at the Company Level, O-2 or O-3 presiding over and can only impose 1 grade reduction, 2 weeks restriction to quarters, and 2 weeks loss of pay.  It can be pushed up to Field Grade (O-5 or O-6) for more serious or repeat offenses and then they can be reduced to E-1, and 45 and 45 of the restriction/pay.  E-5 and E-6 are Field Grade only and 1 pay grade reduction w/ 45/45 if I remember correctly on that one.  Anything above E-7+ is Court Martial only and there are 3 levels of that.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:44 PM  

bungle_jr: bungle_jr: Gonz: I believe Mr. Hasan wishes to become a martyr.

I believe the US Army will provide him with that opportunity.

he's already a martyr hero of islam in his own mind, and he believes that the people whom he wants to be seen as a martyr to already see him as a hero of islam, and will see him as a martyr no matter his ultimate fate. he's guilty of shooting, killing, and wounding fellow army personnel. he has not denied at all that he was the shooter. his opening statement declared evidence would show he is the shooter.

what gets me about this entire thing is the apparent incompetence of the military justice system.

1st, the whole beard thing...he is still and always has been an officer in the us military, and regulations say quite clearly NO BEARD. therefore he should never have been allowed to wear a beard at any point for any reason. there ARE things the ucmj allows for pertaining to religion, and (going by memory, not bothering to research) facial hair is not one of those things.

2nd, i understand the wheels of justice turn slowly, but there is no reason it should've taken 4 years to get to this point.

3rd, from what i heard he never received any demotion in rank, never received any reduction in pay, etc. i had coworkers who received both over marijuana. why didn't this guy get knocked down a rank or 2 for MURDER!?!

modified that for myself


You don't get busted until after your case is adjudicated. In his case, his lawyer's maneuvering made it take this long to lead him to trial. Your co-workers were undoubtedly busted for dope and punished by their commander through non-judicial punishment. That takes no time at all, and they can bust you one stripe and take away a month's pay during that (plus up to 60 days restriction and 60 days extra duty). These days, a dope bust also means being separated.
 
2013-08-21 01:58:30 PM  

optimus_grime: let's blame everything on a religion almost excatly like our own, perfect sense!


I can't tell if you are a woman, which would help me determine if your opinion is valid.
 
2013-08-21 02:20:56 PM  

GDubDub: bungle_jr: 1st, the whole beard thing...he is still and always has been an officer in the us military, and regulations say quite clearly NO BEARD. therefore he should never have been allowed to wear a beard at any point for any reason. there ARE things the ucmj allows for pertaining to religion, and (going by memory pulling shiat out of my ass, not bothering too lazy to research) facial hair is not one of those things.

FTFY.

Ummm...

Here's just one link...   http://www.sikhcoalition.org/army-campaign/sikhs-in-the-us-army/

3rd, from what i heard he never received any demotion in rank, never received any reduction in pay, etc. i had coworkers who received both over marijuana. why didn't this guy get knocked down a rank or 2 for MURDER!?!

When he's convicted he will definitely get all of those.  Operative requirement: Conviction.


ok, i stand corrected about the facial hair thing. however, 1 i was not "pulling shiat out of my ass", as i said i was going by memory, and this sikh exception happened years after i got out. 2 isn't it ONLY for sikh members? i don't recall the military allowing beards for muslim members.

as for "lazy", you could call it that...and the fact that i'm wasting enough time on fark as it is while at work, i really didn't want to waste the time it would take me to research the ucmj

and i stand (sit actually) corrected about non-judicial punishment. i see, while one CAN have rank demotion without a trial, it is essentially done by way of other means instead of a trial.

also, no amount of suffering on hasan's part would be sufficient justice for what he did, and execution is too good for him, so i'm torn on what sort of punishment would be fitting
 
2013-08-21 02:51:53 PM  

Infernalist: demanded that he kill those people.


Fine.  Let him.
 
2013-08-21 02:53:41 PM  

bungle_jr: 3rd, from what i heard he never received any demotion in rank, never received any reduction in pay, etc. i had coworkers who received both over marijuana. why didn't this guy get knocked down a rank or 2 for MURDER!?!


Im guessing it might be that your boys were found guilty for marijuana, and Hassan has not been found guilty at this time.,
 
2013-08-21 02:55:45 PM  
DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke

// you just have to be willing to kill everybody that has the idea
I'm ok with this.
 
2013-08-21 02:58:19 PM  
IRQ12

3rd, from what i heard he never received any demotion in rank, never received any reduction in pay, etc. i had coworkers who received both over marijuana. why didn't this guy get knocked down a rank or 2 for MURDER!?!
because the current administration is more concerned over a little pot than islamic terrorism

This islamic tool even admitted it was an act for islam while the coc decreed it "workplace violence" in order to bow down to religious nuts.
 
2013-08-21 03:01:38 PM  

Aristocles: So, is the Obama admin still shaiting on the dead and wounded Soldiers who were victims of AQ-connected Hasan's act of terrorism by calling it mere 'violence'?


This, right here, is the problem with modern "conservatives".

It used to be liberals who got all hung up about what to call things, rather than actually DOING something.

Holy fark, there's plenty to gripe about Obama, but seriously?  WORD CHOICE?

You lot are worse than the campus PC police, ffs.
Let me guess...you think the REAL problem at Benghazi was what the State Department spokesperson called it within the first 24 hours...
 
2013-08-21 03:16:37 PM  

PunGent: Aristocles: So, is the Obama admin still shaiting on the dead and wounded Soldiers who were victims of AQ-connected Hasan's act of terrorism by calling it mere 'violence'?

This, right here, is the problem with modern "conservatives".

It used to be liberals who got all hung up about what to call things, rather than actually DOING something.

Holy fark, there's plenty to gripe about Obama, but seriously?  WORD CHOICE?

You lot are worse than the campus PC police, ffs.
Let me guess...you think the REAL problem at Benghazi was what the State Department spokesperson called it within the first 24 hours...


The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.
 
2013-08-21 03:56:33 PM  

Theaetetus: Infernalist: meanmutton: On a tangential note: I hate when people refer to Maj. Hasan as a terrorist.  He absolutely was not a terrorist.  His target was a legitimate, military target and his actions were acts of war.

He was a traitor, though, and should be executed for treason.

That's open to debate.  What was his core motivation for attacking them from within?  It wasn't done for any apparently military reason as he's not part of any enemy army. It wasn't done as part of a subversive effort on the behalf of some other nation to demoralize or confuse the military.

'War' exists between nations, no matter what the loonies will tell you about the 'war on terror/drugs/poverty/wtf-ever.'  War exists between nations and military forces where violence has reason and purpose.

All I can see is that he simply wished to kill people that angered him and did so as a means of terrifying those that he saw as enemies because his religious demanded it.

A terrorist, as far as I'm concerned.

[farm1.static.flickr.com image 500x356]
What a terrorist may look like?


Only to a Nazi.
 
2013-08-21 04:04:49 PM  

Aristocles: The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.


As a veteran, I'm OK with calling this workplace violence. He wasn't an enemy combatant. He was an Army officer who went decided to kill fellow soldiers and blame it on Islam. Piss poor excuse when he just didn't want to go to Afghanistan in the first place as a non-combantant himself, i.e. doctor.

If found guilty, execute him. That'll take years on death row.

/I recommend firing squad or hanging.
//No go-juice for this worthless piece of garbage.
 
2013-08-21 04:08:01 PM  

AirForceVet: Aristocles: The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.

As a veteran, I'm OK with calling this workplace violence. He wasn't an enemy combatant. He was an Army officer who went decided to kill fellow soldiers and blame it on Islam. Piss poor excuse when he just didn't want to go to Afghanistan in the first place as a non-combantant himself, i.e. doctor.

If found guilty, execute him. That'll take years on death row.

/I recommend firing squad or hanging.
//No go-juice for this worthless piece of garbage.


I'm all about drowning him in pigs blood...
 
2013-08-21 04:52:35 PM  

AirForceVet: Aristocles: The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.

As a veteran, I'm OK with calling this workplace violence. He wasn't an enemy combatant. He was an Army officer who went decided to kill fellow soldiers and blame it on Islam. Piss poor excuse when he just didn't want to go to Afghanistan in the first place as a non-combantant himself, i.e. doctor.

If found guilty, execute him. That'll take years on death row.

/I recommend firing squad or hanging.
//No go-juice for this worthless piece of garbage.


This. To me, a "terrorist" is a guy who does it for a living, or at least as his primary hobby. Hasan just biatched a bunch, then brought a gun to work. He's just another emo POS with a bad personality, who hated his job and coworkers.

/Iraq veteran

//He'll probably get the needle; the military uses a federal penitentiary to carry out the death penalty (even though they haven't done it since 1948), and that's the only method used any more.
 
2013-08-21 04:59:46 PM  
Hasan originally planned to call Rambo as his only defense witness but opted against it earlier in the day.

: Look John, we can't have you running around out there killing friendly civilians.
: There are no friendly civilians!
: But I'm your friend Johnny! I was there with you knee-deep in all that blood and guts. I covered your ass more than once. Seems like baling you out of trouble's got to be a life-time achievement for me.
: Well you did some pushing on your own John.
: They drew first blood, not me.
: For *you*! For me civilian life is nothing! In the field we had a code of honor, you watch my back, I watch yours. Back here there's nothing!
: You're the last of an elite group, don't end it like this.
: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job *parking cars*!

man! I wish Hasan did call Rambo. It would've been the trial of the century!
 
2013-08-21 05:13:23 PM  
mbillips: This. To me, a "terrorist" is a guy who does it for a living, or at least as his primary hobby. Hasan just biatched a bunch, then brought a gun to work. He's just another emo POS with a bad personality, who hated his job and coworkers.

He expected to be killed.

Did the 9/11 terrorists crash planes into buildings "for a living"?

IT.WAS.TERRORISM.
 
2013-08-21 05:18:51 PM  

peterthx: mbillips: This. To me, a "terrorist" is a guy who does it for a living, or at least as his primary hobby. Hasan just biatched a bunch, then brought a gun to work. He's just another emo POS with a bad personality, who hated his job and coworkers.

He expected to be killed.

Did the 9/11 terrorists crash planes into buildings "for a living"?

IT.WAS.TERRORISM.


Yeah, they did. They didn't have day jobs while they were overstaying their visas, taking flight training, etc. That was a long-planned terrorist op. Those guys were paid to do it as a full time job for months.

Hasan wasn't linked to any terrorist planners. He just hated his job, his country, our foreign policy, his fellow soldiers (they bullied him because he was an asshole). Then he brought a gun to work. No different from any random postal worker.
 
2013-08-21 05:25:06 PM  

bungle_jr: Gonz: I believe Mr. Hasan wishes to become a martyr.

I believe the US Army will provide him with that opportunity.

he's already a martyr in his own mind, and he believes that the people whom he wants to be seen as a martyr to already see him as one. he's guilty of shooting, killing, and wounding fellow army personnel. he has not denied at all that he was the shooter. his opening statement declared evidence would show he is the shooter.

what gets me about this entire thing is the apparent incompetence of the military justice system.

1st, the whole beard thing...he is still and always has been an officer in the us military, and regulations say quite clearly NO BEARD. therefore he should never have been allowed to wear a beard at any point for any reason. there ARE things the ucmj allows for pertaining to religion, and (going by memory, not bothering to research) facial hair is not one of those things.

2nd, i understand the wheels of justice turn slowly, but there is no reason it should've taken 4 years to get to this point.

3rd, from what i heard he never received any demotion in rank, never received any reduction in pay, etc. i had coworkers who received both over marijuana. why didn't this guy get knocked down a rank or 2 for MURDER!?!


We're your friends doted when accused or convicted? That matters.

/not defending this asshole, but ya gotta satisfy the paperwork trolls.
 
2013-08-21 05:38:33 PM  

mbillips: Hasan wasn't linked to any terrorist planners. He just hated his job, his country, our foreign policy, his fellow soldiers (they bullied him because he was an asshole). Then he brought a gun to work. No different from any random postal worker.


Most postal workers don't swap emails with Anwar al-Awlaki or attend the same mosque as two of the 9/11 hijackers did.
 
2013-08-22 04:55:25 AM  

AirForceVet: Aristocles: The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.

As a veteran, I'm OK with calling this workplace violence. He wasn't an enemy combatant. He was an Army officer who went decided to kill fellow soldiers and blame it on Islam. Piss poor excuse when he just didn't want to go to Afghanistan in the first place as a non-combantant himself, i.e. doctor.

If found guilty, execute him. That'll take years on death row.

/I recommend firing squad or hanging.
//No go-juice for this worthless piece of garbage.


You do realize that by calling this workplace violence, the people who were injured/killed by him get NO benefits from the government, and have to pay all of their own medical bills out of their own pockets, right? That the whole reason for calling it workplace violence was so the government could save some cash?
 
2013-08-22 08:35:44 AM  

Zebulon: AirForceVet: Aristocles: The problem is by labeling this workplace violence, the victims of the attack are not provided the benefits they would have received if this was labelled a terror attack or an attack by an enemy combatant.

As a veteran, I'm OK with calling this workplace violence. He wasn't an enemy combatant. He was an Army officer who went decided to kill fellow soldiers and blame it on Islam. Piss poor excuse when he just didn't want to go to Afghanistan in the first place as a non-combantant himself, i.e. doctor.

If found guilty, execute him. That'll take years on death row.

/I recommend firing squad or hanging.
//No go-juice for this worthless piece of garbage.

You do realize that by calling this workplace violence, the people who were injured/killed by him get NO benefits from the government, and have to pay all of their own medical bills out of their own pockets, right? That the whole reason for calling it workplace violence was so the government could save some cash?


The Soldiers will still be taken care of by the Army, however, if their injuries are career ending, they won't get as much benefits as a Soldier injured in a combat zone or by an enemy combatant. As for the civilian killed and the civilian who was injured, I don't know how their bills will be paid.

But, you're right, by calling this "workplace violence" the Army (gov't) saves cash.
 
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