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(Patheos)   "The Bible Belt is collapsing," Russell Moore, president of the SBC's Religious Liberty Commission. "We are no longer the moral majority. We are a prophetic minority"   (patheos.com) divider line 281
    More: Interesting, Russell Moore, Religious Liberty Commission, Southern Baptist Convention, Liberty Commission, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, Ralph Reed, Christian Coalition, liberty  
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6768 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 3:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 04:52:19 PM

cptjeff: PunGent: Ooh, I know this one!  Marriage is a sacred bond between a man, his wife, and their handmaid.
You know, like it says in the Bible.

/yay, threesomes
//WWJB?

I thought the sacred bond included a Man and all of his wives and concubines.


That too.  Apparently the immutable word of God is...mutable.

/no, it's not like flammable and inflammable
 
2013-08-21 04:53:05 PM

simplicimus: Voiceofreason01: simplicimus:
One farker explained his Christianity as accepting Jesus would forgive all your sins, past, present and future. As a Catholic (mostly) I found that more a pathology than a religion. And yes, the Prosperity Gospel is flat out heresy, approaching the stuff the Anti-Christ is supposed to preach (Not that I believe in Revelations).

Lutheran theology is that you are saved by God's Grace. ie you're not saved through acts or through the forgiveness of a priest(confession) or even through repentance.

Since most Lutherans I know are pretty nice people*, that would be a good counterpart to the "Christians only behave because they're afraid of hell" argument that pops up around here.
/* my step-daughter's husband is still an asshole
//Would still be, no matter what faith he was


I'm going to throw it out there that ELCA(Lutheran Church of America) is pretty liberal as far as Protestant Christianity goes and is(among other things) generally OK with GLBT folks.
 
2013-08-21 04:58:28 PM

SurfaceTension: PunGent: //WWJB?

Who would Jesus bang?


Got it in one.

/that's what SHE said...
 
2013-08-21 04:59:32 PM
There are days that I really understand why the Romans fed these people to the lions.
 
2013-08-21 05:01:05 PM
I thought the article contained some decent thoughts.  If you THINK you're a majority, you may believe that what passes for YOUR normal should be everyone's.  But if you decide you want to live a pious life that's right for YOU and concentrate JUST on you, maybe that leading by example thing may come to pass.

I don't believe in much of what they're selling - but if they just simply BELIEVE it, well, they can do that all they want.  In my opinion, if they focus on themselves and their relationship with their deity, it's no skin off my nose (unless that's part of their cult beliefs....).  And I think that the leaders of their cults SHOULD be constantly communicating with their followers on what they believe their beliefs should entail - and it should be sincere.  That's part of their job and belief - that they should be providing spiritual guidance to their followers - and how their faith should guide them in daily life.  I think their interpretation should NOT be guided by the mainstream - that it should be a sincere manifestation of how they believe they should live their lives in accordance with their precepts.

Where Catholicism lost me was when they didn't turn in every pedophile priest to the authorities. Where Christianity pushes me to the brink is their insistence that I have no idea of what is right for me - and those who don't practice what they preach - a lot of CINOs.  Oddly, most atheists I meet are almost as annoying with their chanting on the other side.  Odd how that information gets volunteered - I could care less.

I prefer to choose my own path...speak to your followers, not me.  When I want your spritual guidance, I'll seek YOU out.
 
2013-08-21 05:01:52 PM

NutWrench: As a "prophetic minority," Mr. Moore thinks his most profound political task will be defending religious liberty from the assaults of a secular government.

You could try leading by example, too.


He could get involved in Americans United for Separation of Church And State.

But then he would find that the wall blocks intrusion to both sides.
 
2013-08-21 05:02:18 PM
"We are no longer the ruling, moral majority."

i.imgur.com

ironingboardcollective.files.wordpress.com

We know that feel, bro.  We know that feel...
 
2013-08-21 05:02:41 PM

the money is in the banana stand: SanjiSasuke: I'm bored so why not.
"So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"  -Richard Dawkins

Sure. Yes. If someone believes in fairies, why not? Because it seems silly to you? Your beliefs may be silly to me. Why impede the beliefs of others by forcing your own upon them? Its like a person who doesn't like baseball telling everyone to stop watching baseball, because the infield fly rule is silly, or he finds it boring. Don't like baseball/religion? Don't watch/practice it. Same for all his "everyone is a little atheist" stuff. Sure, I don't like hockey, but I still like baseball.

/not Christian, nor Abrahamic

However this line of thinking cannot be applied to everything. Because someone believes that having a sexual relationship with a child is ok does not make it right. When things enter into the "moral" territory, things get real tricky. There are no real compelling arguments on either side when it comes to laws being influenced by morality. Some may say that a person who is 16 should be old enough to drink because they can drive. Some may think that children at any age can drink. Some think this shouldn't be a law at all but the discretion of the parents. What in this case is "right"?


But I (and I would hope normal people) don't think allowing someone to be religious is 'wrong'. In the case shown there IS scientific evidence to go off of. From that a group of people can decide, should they wait until the brain is done developing or until 18/16 because that is what age we figure they should be able to decide for themselves.
 
2013-08-21 05:02:54 PM

Apik0r0s: Solkar: Weaver95: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

Oh there are a lot of reasons modern Christianity is imploding and collapsing. Hypocrisy, lies, corruption...it's all there if you scratch the surface and look underneath the gloss. Maybe the evangelicals would be better off if all things Christian DID implode, at least for a while. If nothing else it would force them to reevaluate their faith and it's role in their lives and in society.

I still go to a Southern Baptist church, but I couldn't agree more with the above statements. The biggest thing I like about my current pastor, though, is that he keeps politics out of his sermons. That's not common anymore.

My ex's family goes to a United Methodist Church, which I would have to occasionally attend. I walked out of an Easter service, in front of my kids, after saying "bullshiat" loud enough for those around me to hear - I did this when the pastor started babbling about giving our troops the strength to kill Muslims and urging everyone to pray for Bush. And that's a UMC church. Most digusting bunch of upper middle class ignoramuses you will ever meet is at Mt. Bethel church in Marietta GA.


Yeah, that's just swell.  So much for praying for peace.  If anything, people should have been praying for God to take Bush a little early and send Cheney back to hell.
 
2013-08-21 05:04:05 PM
images.askmen.com3.bp.blogspot.com

"[god] always needs money, the man is bad with money" ~George Carlin
 
2013-08-21 05:07:41 PM

Voiceofreason01: I'm going to throw it out there that ELCA(Lutheran Church of America) is pretty liberal as far as Protestant Christianity goes and is(among other things) generally OK with GLBT folks.


It's really hard to throw those generalizations out there about any of the mainline Protestant churches any more.  In the broadest picture, Congregational/UCC are almost Unitarians, ELCA and the Episcopals are very slightly left of the United Methodists and the American (northern) Baptists which are a little to the left of the Presbys.  Then there's a pretty big gulf before you get to the Missouri Synods, 'non-denominationals', Southern Baptists, etc.

But, again, there are places with extremely conservative UMC or ELCA churches. Even some pretty LGBT-intolerant churches still tied to the UCC. There are some pretty liberal LCMS, Presbys, Disciples... heck even a few Southern Baptists. There are even Methodist megachurches around.  The denominations, especially the more left-leaning, are very hesitant to put the hammer down on anything.  Their membership numbers are in decline, so they don't want to run off any growing church and they'll play to whatever the median view is in their neighborhood.
 
2013-08-21 05:11:04 PM

Voiceofreason01: simplicimus: Voiceofreason01: simplicimus:
One farker explained his Christianity as accepting Jesus would forgive all your sins, past, present and future. As a Catholic (mostly) I found that more a pathology than a religion. And yes, the Prosperity Gospel is flat out heresy, approaching the stuff the Anti-Christ is supposed to preach (Not that I believe in Revelations).

Lutheran theology is that you are saved by God's Grace. ie you're not saved through acts or through the forgiveness of a priest(confession) or even through repentance.

Since most Lutherans I know are pretty nice people*, that would be a good counterpart to the "Christians only behave because they're afraid of hell" argument that pops up around here.
/* my step-daughter's husband is still an asshole
//Would still be, no matter what faith he was

I'm going to throw it out there that ELCA(Lutheran Church of America) is pretty liberal as far as Protestant Christianity goes and is(among other things) generally OK with GLBT folks.


You ought to save this stuff for the next Christian vs atheist thread.
 
2013-08-21 05:13:13 PM

Lawnchair: But, again, there are places with extremely conservative UMC or ELCA churches. Even some pretty LGBT-intolerant churches still tied to the UCC. There are some pretty liberal LCMS, Presbys, Disciples... heck even a few Southern Baptists. There are even Methodist megachurches around.  The denominations, especially the more left-leaning, are very hesitant to put the hammer down on anything.  Their membership numbers are in decline, so they don't want to run off any growing church and they'll play to whatever the median view is in their neighborhood.


I don't necessarily disagree with that assessment but I'll also point out that there were congregations that left the ELCA when they decided to ordain GLBT peoples.
 
2013-08-21 05:13:27 PM

jimboflux: bekaye: The moron majority is downgraded to a pathetic minority.

Honestly, I still think they are a majority.

Only in rural and some suburban areas. You get into the big cities and these people are the weirdos.That's why its the major metropolitan areas and not small town 'Murica that has gay pride parades/festivities.

/might have a Northern Illinois bias here.


I know that in Indianapolis there are all sorts of crazy groups. When I worked at a ghetto Radio Shack every week some "preacher" or "minister" in a rusted out car would buy PA equipment for their new church. None were affiliated with any larger group, and they would often try to take me to task for being "over-educated." They all seemed to be dualists, believing that the physical world is the creation of Satan and that rejection of learning was praiseworthy. Desiring success in this world was worshipping Satan, one should only read the Bible and let a preacher supply other knowledge.

I hear quite a bit about prosperity gospel groups, Indianapolis has Light of the World which heavily into that. They compete pretty fiercely with the dualists in the inner city.
 
2013-08-21 05:17:10 PM
There are a couple of reasons why Christians are losing the debate over gay marriage, Mr. Moore says. One is that even many Christians don't have a real understanding of what marriage is.

Being condescending is a great way to win people over.

/moran
 
2013-08-21 05:20:03 PM

BolloxReader: jimboflux: bekaye: The moron majority is downgraded to a pathetic minority.

Honestly, I still think they are a majority.

Only in rural and some suburban areas. You get into the big cities and these people are the weirdos.That's why its the major metropolitan areas and not small town 'Murica that has gay pride parades/festivities.

/might have a Northern Illinois bias here.

I know that in Indianapolis there are all sorts of crazy groups. When I worked at a ghetto Radio Shack every week some "preacher" or "minister" in a rusted out car would buy PA equipment for their new church. None were affiliated with any larger group, and they would often try to take me to task for being "over-educated." They all seemed to be dualists, believing that the physical world is the creation of Satan and that rejection of learning was praiseworthy. Desiring success in this world was worshipping Satan, one should only read the Bible and let a preacher supply other knowledge.

I hear quite a bit about prosperity gospel groups, Indianapolis has Light of the World which heavily into that. They compete pretty fiercely with the dualists in the inner city.


I am not sure if you are exaggerating or not. I find your experiences baffling that your experience were so frequent, that led you to believe that most ministers believe that the creation of the physical world was by Satan and the rejection of learning is praiseworthy. Not only have I never had this experience, I find it strikingly odd you apparently have had it so frequently. I know a lot of ultra-conservative religious people and while they may reject the idea of evolution entirely or somewhat, I have never met anyone who thought that the rejection of learning was praiseworthy and the creation of the physical world was Satan's doing. I say this growing up in both a small rural city in Texas as well as a large city where I reside today.
 
2013-08-21 05:21:05 PM

jimboflux: Only in rural and some suburban areas. You get into the big cities and these people are the weirdos.That's why its the major metropolitan areas and not small town 'Murica that has gay pride parades/festivities.


Depends on the definition of major.  The urban core of 15 out of the top 20 cities... yes.   But, it's hard to come up with 'major metropolitan area' and not start getting into Houston, Atlanta, endless Dallas sprawlburbs, Phoenix... even a lot of extreme religiosity in SoCal (Orange/Riverside).
 
2013-08-21 05:22:16 PM
Someone's probably already said, "Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!" but I figured it bears repeating.
 
2013-08-21 05:24:09 PM

clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.


done in one.
 
2013-08-21 05:24:12 PM
The Church isn't going away anytime soon.  Granted, it may not look the same as it used to--probably a lot less white and European--but it's still going strong.
 
2013-08-21 05:24:51 PM

Lawnchair: jimboflux: Only in rural and some suburban areas. You get into the big cities and these people are the weirdos.That's why its the major metropolitan areas and not small town 'Murica that has gay pride parades/festivities.

Depends on the definition of major.  The urban core of 15 out of the top 20 cities... yes.   But, it's hard to come up with 'major metropolitan area' and not start getting into Houston, Atlanta, endless Dallas sprawlburbs, Phoenix... even a lot of extreme religiosity in SoCal (Orange/Riverside).


There are also some pretty liberal rural areas. There are a lot of former hippies in and around Lawrence, KS as an example.
 
2013-08-21 05:26:41 PM
more like the Babel Belt.
 
2013-08-21 05:34:38 PM

Voiceofreason01: There are also some pretty liberal rural areas. There are a lot of former hippies in and around Lawrence, KS as an example.


As this particular long-haired hippie might be decidedly aware.  Even away from college towns and Vermont, there's also that interesting liberal streak in western Minnesota... so you get little Lake Wobegon towns/counties that voted for Obama twice, while Michelle Bachmann wins her seat in the soccer-mom Twin Cities suburbs.
 
2013-08-21 05:34:49 PM
Well.... bye!
 
2013-08-21 05:38:30 PM

Lawnchair: Voiceofreason01: There are also some pretty liberal rural areas. There are a lot of former hippies in and around Lawrence, KS as an example.

As this particular long-haired hippie might be decidedly aware.  Even away from college towns and Vermont, there's also that interesting liberal streak in western Minnesota... so you get little Lake Wobegon towns/counties that voted for Obama twice, while Michelle Bachmann wins her seat in the soccer-mom Twin Cities suburbs.


which I suppose just goes to show how far generalities get you. There are always exceptions to the rule.
 
2013-08-21 05:46:23 PM

clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.


okay I see that my contribution was taken.
 
2013-08-21 05:47:39 PM

Lawnchair: jimboflux: Only in rural and some suburban areas. You get into the big cities and these people are the weirdos.That's why its the major metropolitan areas and not small town 'Murica that has gay pride parades/festivities.

Depends on the definition of major.  The urban core of 15 out of the top 20 cities... yes.   But, it's hard to come up with 'major metropolitan area' and not start getting into Houston, Atlanta, endless Dallas sprawlburbs, Phoenix... even a lot of extreme religiosity in SoCal (Orange/Riverside).


Houston has a great gay pride parade!  Houston's Mayor is a Lesbian!
 
2013-08-21 05:48:10 PM

the money is in the banana stand: I know that in Indianapolis there are all sorts of crazy groups. When I worked at a ghetto Radio Shack every week some "preacher" or "minister" in a rusted out car would buy PA equipment for their new church. None were affiliated with any larger group, and they would often try to take me to task for being "over-educated." They all seemed to be dualists, believing that the physical world is the creation of Satan and that rejection of learning was praiseworthy. Desiring success in this world was worshipping Satan, one should only read the Bible and let a preacher supply other knowledge.


That took a while to track down. Sounds like the Catharism Heresy (11 Century)
"Catharism was a complicated mix of non-Christian religions reworked with Christian terminology. The Cathars had many different sects; they had in common a teaching that the world was created by an evil deity (so matter was evil) and we must worship the good deity instead.
 
2013-08-21 05:48:24 PM
/I don't know why I capitalized lesbian.
 
2013-08-21 05:56:55 PM

Tosches: Houston has a great gay pride parade!  Houston's Mayor is a Lesbian!


Truth.  And still is in no way short extreme right-wingers.
 
2013-08-21 06:07:29 PM

Lawnchair: Tosches: Houston has a great gay pride parade!  Houston's Mayor is a Lesbian!

Truth.  And still is in no way short extreme right-wingers.


Lol. Okay dude. Right-Wingers sure, but Extreme Right-Wingers no. I live here in Houston and while there are plenty of conservative folks and some questionably batty people, it is very rare to encounter someone who is an "extreme right-winger" or fanatic. I interact with a lot of people and types of people on a daily basis. More often than not, the extent to the "extreme right-wingers" here are old people with signs protesting abortion clinics peacefully. This is far different than the Fark perception of hillbilly preachers with guns burning crosses in front yards riding around pick-up trucks worshiping a Rush Limbaugh idol.
 
2013-08-21 06:07:47 PM
*i'mokaywiththis.jpg*
 
2013-08-21 06:28:17 PM
Voiceofreason01:There are also some pretty liberal rural areas. There are a lot of former hippies in and around Lawrence, KS as an example.

I'm not sure you can really classify Lawrence as rural.  At this point, it's more of a bedroom community serving the two larger metropolitan areas (KC and Topeka).  Throw in the college, and it's pretty much just a decent-sized small town.
 
2013-08-21 06:33:37 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: meat0918: Her followup regarding the comments on their site really sounded tense and apprehensive. I had to go check, and kept seeing the comment count go up, then down, up, then down.

MIght have been double up, but they've only been expanded to the full 2 hours for a month now and wasn't it before that?

Ahh well, off to the google I go. I was in my car so I never got a chance to watch the comment page for that one. Divisive people tend to make some waves go off on the website when they are on


I only heard the interview today on the local public radio station.
 
2013-08-21 06:43:12 PM

Fafai: SurfaceTension: PunGent: //WWJB?

Who would Jesus bang?

Who would Jesus blow.


Wait was Jesus black?
 
2013-08-21 06:46:34 PM

jonas opines: Voiceofreason01:There are also some pretty liberal rural areas. There are a lot of former hippies in and around Lawrence, KS as an example.

I'm not sure you can really classify Lawrence as rural.  At this point, it's more of a bedroom community serving the two larger metropolitan areas (KC and Topeka).  Throw in the college, and it's pretty much just a decent-sized small town.


There are certainly more rural areas but Lawrence is 30 miles from KC or Topeka and there's nothing but farmland in between.
 
2013-08-21 06:48:12 PM

North_Central_Positronics: [funnycatwallpapers.com image 400x400]


Yeah, this

It's just not happening quickly enough.
 
2013-08-21 06:50:50 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.


The best part of Christianity was lost with the Circumcellions.

/Praise the Lord!
 
2013-08-21 06:59:54 PM

Apik0r0s: Solkar: Weaver95: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

Oh there are a lot of reasons modern Christianity is imploding and collapsing. Hypocrisy, lies, corruption...it's all there if you scratch the surface and look underneath the gloss. Maybe the evangelicals would be better off if all things Christian DID implode, at least for a while. If nothing else it would force them to reevaluate their faith and it's role in their lives and in society.

I still go to a Southern Baptist church, but I couldn't agree more with the above statements. The biggest thing I like about my current pastor, though, is that he keeps politics out of his sermons. That's not common anymore.

My ex's family goes to a United Methodist Church, which I would have to occasionally attend. I walked out of an Easter service, in front of my kids, after saying "bullshiat" loud enough for those around me to hear - I did this when the pastor started babbling about giving our troops the strength to kill Muslims and urging everyone to pray for Bush. And that's a UMC church. Most digusting bunch of upper middle class ignoramuses you will ever meet is at Mt. Bethel church in Marietta GA.


Out of the UMC's I have gone to, I will agree with this assessment.  Senior Pastor is an ass.
 
2013-08-21 07:00:32 PM
Just like a political party I know, they think a better job of merchandising will "reach the people", "teach the people" and lead to a successful "campaign".
Idiots! It is not the merchandising, it is the material.
When your rotten to the core derp is rejected, move on.

Trying to fool all the people all the time is bad religion and bad politics.
 
2013-08-21 07:06:31 PM
 
2013-08-21 07:11:30 PM

Infernalist: simplicimus: Weaver95: Infernalist: Weaver95: I wonder just how damaging prosperity gospel theology has been to Christianity in this country?

A lot of religious leaders got shot in the Soviet and French revolutions for being seen as being part of the problem and not part of the solution.

What I mean is that by now most reasonable people can and have spotted the flaws in prosperity gospel theology. It's essentially heresy after all. But is the decline of evangelical interest in mainstream society related to the rise of prosperity gospel theology....or is this decline due to a combination of factors?

I guess there's no way to really measure something like that. I just find it an interesting question to ponder.

One farker explained his Christianity as accepting Jesus would forgive all your sins, past, present and future. As a Catholic (mostly) I found that more a pathology than a religion. And yes, the Prosperity Gospel is flat out heresy, approaching the stuff the Anti-Christ is supposed to preach (Not that I believe in Revelations).

The worship of wealth is not just limited to the Evangelical Prosperity Gospel. It's in the heart of every religion that has paupers and beggars filling the pews of gold-plated churches.


Voiceofreason01: ...


Decades ago I communicated online with a man who believed himself to be one of the Two Witnesses of Revelation. He was a loon, but he made some interesting points. I've since adapted some of his Bible exegeses into something that could persuade many right-wing fundie Christians to not meddle in U.S. politics anymore, and to in fact "get the hell out of Dodge."

This man pointed out that the Beasts of Revelation are called "Beasts" because they are not actual persons, yet have been falsely granted many of the attributes of personhood.

With this in mind, the First Beast aka "Anti-Christ" would be Corporate Personhood as a whole. The Second Beast aka False Prophet is modern right-wing fundamentalist / evangelical theonomic "Christianity," and especially Prosperity Gospel, which deceives its followers into worshiping the First Beast (look at the modern GOP and especially the Teabaggers and tell me that that isn't the case).

He personally identified the evil empire of Babylon the Great, the Whore which sits on a Beast with Seven Heads, as none other than the United States of America, which never was God's chosen nation but has always been anti-Christian at least since the godless Constitution, if not the Declaration as well. The seven heads represent not merely seven mountains, but as with all other Bible prophecy, the symbol represents something like, but larger than, the symbolic item. Hills are smaller than mountains, so the usual interpretation that this represents the Seven Hills of Rome and thus the Roman Catholic Church and a revived Roman Empire is balderdash.

No, we need something that is like a mountain but larger than a mountain. And something like that actually exists! They're much larger than mountains ― so large that each has whole mountain ranges on it! Prophetic fulfillment bonus: there are exactly seven of these super-mountain things in the whole world, and there was no feasible way for either John the Revelator nor anyone else in his day nor for some 1½ millennia thereafter to know that by any human means.

What are they? Continents! So, the woman sits on the seven-headed Beast, meaning that she exerts powerful political, military, cultural, and economic influence over all seven continents of the world. What nation does that describe?

She is also said to "make all nations of the world wealthy by her costliness." What nation has far and away the greatest debt-based economy the world has ever seen, and is exporting its workforce and economy all over the world, enriching them at the expense of its own and their underclasses, and poisoning their land, water, and air in the process ("God ... will destroy them that destroyeth the Earth")?

Sodom and Gomorrah had two sister city-states which were also "cities of the plain": Admah and Zeboim. Both of them were destroyed as well (Deuteronomy 29:23). The destruction of the Whore is likened unto the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah but those other two weren't mentioned, so it, too, should take out two relatively neighbors as well that physically border it. How many nations have exactly two physical neighbors that share a land border? Well, just off the top of my head, there's North Korea, Mexico, and all of the nations of Central America, but one other as well. Of those, which fit the other two criteria given above?

This guy even prophesied a seemingly plausible (to those who don't know as much about science as they think they do) way that the entire North American continent would be utterly destroyed, with nothing left but a vast cauldron of lava, and yet it would appear to the world to not be some miraculous divine judgment but rather a horrific natural disaster exacerbated and perhaps triggered by American greed and hubris, and that it need not involve anything nuclear. He said that the North American continent would become the Lake of Fire burning with brimstone. It basically involves the mass detonation of our natural gas deposits. "I have laid a trap for thee, O Babylon."
 
2013-08-21 07:30:01 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Lawnchair: Tosches: Houston has a great gay pride parade!  Houston's Mayor is a Lesbian!

Truth.  And still is in no way short extreme right-wingers.

Lol. Okay dude. Right-Wingers sure, but Extreme Right-Wingers no. I live here in Houston and while there are plenty of conservative folks and some questionably batty people, it is very rare to encounter someone who is an "extreme right-winger" or fanatic. I interact with a lot of people and types of people on a daily basis. More often than not, the extent to the "extreme right-wingers" here are old people with signs protesting abortion clinics peacefully. This is far different than the Fark perception of hillbilly preachers with guns burning crosses in front yards riding around pick-up trucks worshiping a Rush Limbaugh idol.


You're right. They don't do those things you mentioned. They do something far worse: they vote.

Greg Abbott is probably gonna be the next governor, and he's considered to be to the right of Perry.
 
2013-08-21 07:35:22 PM

Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.


This is pretty much it. We live in a deliberately secular nation, and attempts to thrust religion into national politics generates pushback from those who realize why this is a bad idea. I've always thought religion should be a private matter between an individual or group and the deity or deities of their choice. As soon as you endorse one particular religion officially, you are denying beliefs of everyone else. Our nation may have been founded on "Christian principals" whatever that means but we are NOT a Christian nation. The USA was founded by those fleeing exactly the sort of religious discrimination we now practice. Just how many politicians get anywhere without claiming to be Christian?
 
2013-08-21 07:47:29 PM
 
2013-08-21 08:01:53 PM

vpb: They never were moral.  Or a majority.


There's a correlation between false-consensus effect and racism.  I don't know offhand of any studies linking false-consensus effect with other forms of bigotry (such as homophobia or misogyny), but I speculate that there is, because it seems to be highly correlated with social dominance orientation (SDO) and right-wing authoritarianism (RWA), both traits I imagine you find in abundance with the "Moral Majority" types.  Oh, and I would think it goes without saying, but just for the record, yes, I'm assuming that a lot of what the "Moral Majority" types believe can be described as homophobia or misogyny, or at least some kind of anti-feminism.

Anyway, all of that is to say that, the more bigoted a person is, the more likely they are to believe that they're part of a silent majority of people who think like them but aren't "brave" or "honest" enough to come out and say it --- because they're afraid of being "politically incorrect."

Again, certain specific examples of this are pretty well-documented.  Where I'm stepping away from established science and into wild-ass speculation is in imagining that it's a general thing that extends to all forms of bigotry.
 
2013-08-21 08:02:04 PM

James10952001: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

This is pretty much it. We live in a deliberately secular nation, and attempts to thrust religion into national politics generates pushback from those who realize why this is a bad idea. I've always thought religion should be a private matter between an individual or group and the deity or deities of their choice. As soon as you endorse one particular religion officially, you are denying beliefs of everyone else. Our nation may have been founded on "Christian principals" whatever that means but we are NOT a Christian nation. The USA was founded by those fleeing exactly the sort of religious discrimination we now practice. Just how many politicians get anywhere without claiming to be Christian?


You'll see a black President, a woman President, and a gay President before you see an atheist President.
 
2013-08-21 08:07:14 PM
i242.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 09:01:07 PM

simplicimus: the money is in the banana stand: I know that in Indianapolis there are all sorts of crazy groups. When I worked at a ghetto Radio Shack every week some "preacher" or "minister" in a rusted out car would buy PA equipment for their new church. None were affiliated with any larger group, and they would often try to take me to task for being "over-educated." They all seemed to be dualists, believing that the physical world is the creation of Satan and that rejection of learning was praiseworthy. Desiring success in this world was worshipping Satan, one should only read the Bible and let a preacher supply other knowledge.

That took a while to track down. Sounds like the Catharism Heresy (11 Century)
"Catharism was a complicated mix of non-Christian religions reworked with Christian terminology. The Cathars had many different sects; they had in common a teaching that the world was created by an evil deity (so matter was evil) and we must worship the good deity instead.


Which is actually Manichaeism, a Persian religion that grew out of Mithraism in much the way Christianity grew out of Judaism.  It was similar enough to Christianity that it morphed into " heretical" Christianity at least three separate time in different places during the middle ages.  The Christian conception of the Devil comes from it, as he's really the "dark god" from Manichaeism
 
2013-08-21 09:32:22 PM

clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.


This is why we can't have a nice thread.  Somebody has to go and finish it in Boobies.  There is no more to say.
 
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