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(Patheos)   "The Bible Belt is collapsing," Russell Moore, president of the SBC's Religious Liberty Commission. "We are no longer the moral majority. We are a prophetic minority"   (patheos.com) divider line 281
    More: Interesting, Russell Moore, Religious Liberty Commission, Southern Baptist Convention, Liberty Commission, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, Ralph Reed, Christian Coalition, liberty  
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6780 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 3:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 04:04:39 PM  
Well people are probably tired of mixing religion and politics and don't care what a precher thinks Gods views on the sewage bill before the voters and want to focus in on more of the message. A boss I had years ago that I have talked about on fark a few times was a jive talking preacher that thought he was holier than thou. He would talk down to us about how easy we could be replaced yet he couldnt be because he was so special. He got fired for sexual harassment and replaced in a day. Funny thing was is he was always having me scan documents for him on the scanner and email them to him, but I could never look at them. Little did he know that deleting things dosn't mean they are gone. Turns out Mr. perfect precher man was a coke head with quite an arrest record and he was being sued by a hospital, car dealership and an electronics store.
 
2013-08-21 04:04:55 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: In the beginning there were two fish. And they had a retard baby that crawled out of the water with its mutant hands and had buttsex with a fish-squirrel or something..


Is that like how in the beginning there was only Adam and Eve, but then they had 2 sons that went out and got married to women that came out of nowhere?
 
2013-08-21 04:05:13 PM  
The evangelical Christian Right didn't ask for my advice, and I'm sure they'd sooner slit their wrists than take advice from an atheist liberal homosexual. But I'm going to offer it anyway, and they're free to ignore it or continue calling me an abomination in Christ's eyes.

Ready?

Get back to basics. Start following the teachings of Jesus Christ. If that's too touchy-feely for you, temper it with some old fashioned Protestant work ethic. The catch is that you have to also live by whatever rules you try to impose on the rest of us. Go ahead and fight for the Ten Commandments to be hung in courtrooms. But that means you have to remove lying and infidelity from your bag of tricks. I might still disagree with you on a lot of things but I'd at least have grudging respect for you if you actually practiced what you're so eager to preach.

Or to say it much more simply, stop telling me you're a Christian. Show me.
 
2013-08-21 04:06:42 PM  

Voiceofreason01: simplicimus:
One farker explained his Christianity as accepting Jesus would forgive all your sins, past, present and future. As a Catholic (mostly) I found that more a pathology than a religion. And yes, the Prosperity Gospel is flat out heresy, approaching the stuff the Anti-Christ is supposed to preach (Not that I believe in Revelations).

Lutheran theology is that you are saved by God's Grace. ie you're not saved through acts or through the forgiveness of a priest(confession) or even through repentance.


Pagan theology is...well, chaotic and nowhere near as dogmatic on the subject. Some of the basics tho can be summed up as : don't hurt other people because it can mess up your path. Be excellent to each other. Sex is awesome, you should do it when it feels right...just be cool about it. The planet is useful and we all gotta live here so let's not turn it into a toxic waste pit. You aren't born in sin. You aren't worthless if you are different. Everyone can cast a circle...teach them if they ask, but only if they ask.
 
2013-08-21 04:06:51 PM  

vharshyde: Can't wait until these assholes become a bad memory.


It comes around in 20 years or so they will be back. America seems to attract these wingnuts since the begining.
 
2013-08-21 04:07:00 PM  

Dr. Kefarkian: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Lions - Eleventy thousand
Christians - Zero

I think that's when Christianity started to lose its' followers
/it was a helluva game, too


Oddly enough, while the Romans did execute Christians, and they did have criminals torn apart by beasts (sometimes lions), there's no real accounts of Christains being thrown to lions. It probably happened but it wasn't actually a "thing" the Romans did.
 
2013-08-21 04:08:07 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Based on obesity rate numbers, I'm confident their belt is expanding.


Gonna have to punch some more holes in that sucker.
 
2013-08-21 04:08:10 PM  
Actual religious people are on the decline but not in the way this jack ass thinks. The problem has and always will be that a very small minority represents (and wrongly I might add) the religious majority because they are the most vocal and outspoken. What's very unfortunate is that the majority are drowned out and those looking to join or even those in leave or never come because of that vocal minority's vitriol and fervor.

There are still a lot of good churches, pastors, fathers, faithful, etc.. out there and they are doing what Jesus commanded. Above no thing except love for God, you are to love your neighbor. The problem is that you never hear about them because jack wagon is standing in the corner screaming its the end of the world because of one thing or another.
 
2013-08-21 04:08:45 PM  

jake_lex: [cafewitteveen.files.wordpress.com image 350x262]

Obligatory

/and very true


To be fair, the large portion of that pie should just be "Christians", it should be "fundamental or evangelical Christians".  The rest should also have a small slice.
 
2013-08-21 04:09:22 PM  

namatad: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

meh
atheism started to become a NON-issue as a life choice long before the internet.
it was clear to me in grade school that the religious people were horrible example of how to live.
As I became educated, I left behind the imaginary beings of my childhood.
Easter Bunny, Zeus, Santa, god, satan, ...


"I have found it an amusing strategy, when asked whether I am an atheist, to point out that the questioner is also an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I just go one god further." -dawkins

"Isn't it amazing, that the religion in which you were indoctrinated into for the first 18 years of your life just happens to be the correct one? How lucky each one of you are."


Which actually goes only to show what an utter prat Dawkins is.   Sure Fundamentalists exist of all stripes but most serious thoughtful people of faith I know tend to think that the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega of all creation is especailly chuffed at which human syllables are used when calling his name and that people of ALL faith who make a sincere effort to reach out to him make contact with the same divine,  and the tents of their particular religion are not so much enteral and universal truths, but a moral system the works for THEM personally
 
2013-08-21 04:11:46 PM  
You mean denying evolution and pissing on LGBT rights didn't do any favors for the SBC?

Shocking.
 
2013-08-21 04:12:30 PM  

Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.


When the Catholic Church stopped saying masses in Latin they started to lose followers.
 
2013-08-21 04:13:58 PM  

clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.


I had to re-read the headline because I thought it said "pathetic".

I heard his interview on Here & Now, and all I can say is, what a pompous, two faced, lying piece of shiat asshole that guy is.
 
2013-08-21 04:14:51 PM  

Magorn: namatad: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

meh
atheism started to become a NON-issue as a life choice long before the internet.
it was clear to me in grade school that the religious people were horrible example of how to live.
As I became educated, I left behind the imaginary beings of my childhood.
Easter Bunny, Zeus, Santa, god, satan, ...


"I have found it an amusing strategy, when asked whether I am an atheist, to point out that the questioner is also an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I just go one god further." -dawkins

"Isn't it amazing, that the religion in which you were indoctrinated into for the first 18 years of your life just happens to be the correct one? How lucky each one of you are."

Which actually goes only to show what an utter prat Dawkins is.   Sure Fundamentalists exist of all stripes but most serious thoughtful people of faith I know tend to think that the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega of all creation is especailly chuffed at which human syllables are used when calling his name and that people of ALL faith who make a sincere effort to reach out to him make contact with the same divine,  and the tents of their particular religion are not so much enteral and universal truths, but a moral system the works for THEM personally


It sounds like they're just doing the moral thing and not even bothering to 'pick' a God to which to dedicate themselves to.  That's cheating if you ask me.

In all seriousness, all those serious thoughtful people of faith are just doing what most atheists do, just with the need to give the credit to a god figure.
 
2013-08-21 04:16:08 PM  
t2.gstatic.com

t1.gstatic.com

Also seemed fitting...
 
2013-08-21 04:16:12 PM  
FTA: So evangelicals need a new way of thinking-a new strategy, if you will-to attract and keep believers, as well as to influence American politics.

This all you need to know about modern evangelical christianity.

/cult
 
2013-08-21 04:16:23 PM  

meat0918: I heard his interview on Here & Now, and all I can say is, what a pompous, two faced, lying piece of shiat asshole that guy is.


Robin Young did that interview right? I swear you hear her disdain during the interview to the point I think she was mentally picturing the guy done up Vlad Tepes style
 
2013-08-21 04:16:34 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Actual religious people are on the decline but not in the way this jack ass thinks. The problem has and always will be that a very small minority represents (and wrongly I might add) the religious majority because they are the most vocal and outspoken. What's very unfortunate is that the majority are drowned out and those looking to join or even those in leave or never come because of that vocal minority's vitriol and fervor.

There are still a lot of good churches, pastors, fathers, faithful, etc.. out there and they are doing what Jesus commanded. Above no thing except love for God, you are to love your neighbor. The problem is that you never hear about them because jack wagon is standing in the corner screaming its the end of the world because of one thing or another.


Add to that the opposition will only point out the loonies and it is way more interesting to focus on the bad in the media than the good. It isn't a story to post a headline of "Minister is faithful to his wife," but it sure as hell a great scoop to post "Minister cheats on his wife with underage boy." Post enough of those bad articles and suddenly the perception is that all or most Ministers are this way. It's a shame really because the same thing happens in politics. Anyone or thing that becomes the target of the media is doomed. It is such an overwhelming damaging construct. You don't have to be good or righteous, you just have to make sure your opposition looks worse than you do. I am confident that I could win any sort of office not by having any true understanding or point of view on any issue, but just by lambasting my competition's point of view and calling them ugly mean poopheads.

The problem isn't so much crazies like in TFA, but moreso that massive amount of brainwashed retards that take what the media says and what "society says" as proof infallible.
 
2013-08-21 04:16:40 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder just how damaging prosperity gospel theology has been to Christianity in this country?


They're the reason when someone hears the word Christian, the first thing that pops into mind is "anti-homosexual" or "bigot" and not "follower of Christ".
 
2013-08-21 04:17:41 PM  
From the comments:

"From my experience, for whatever it's worth, you're mischaracterizing the Moral Majority's goals. Theydid seek to create a more moral (and thereby more Christian) society. Again, whether you agree with their particular vision of Christian or moral society, I don't know why this goal is problematic."

This is why religious fundamentalism is evil. The guy can write it down -- even if you don't agree with our morals, you shouldn't have a problem with them being forced down your throat -- and be genuinely confused about what the problem is.  Religion damages brains.
 
2013-08-21 04:17:54 PM  

Infernalist: Magorn: namatad: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

meh
atheism started to become a NON-issue as a life choice long before the internet.
it was clear to me in grade school that the religious people were horrible example of how to live.
As I became educated, I left behind the imaginary beings of my childhood.
Easter Bunny, Zeus, Santa, god, satan, ...


"I have found it an amusing strategy, when asked whether I am an atheist, to point out that the questioner is also an atheist when considering Zeus, Apollo, Amon Ra, Mithras, Baal, Thor, Wotan, the Golden Calf and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I just go one god further." -dawkins

"Isn't it amazing, that the religion in which you were indoctrinated into for the first 18 years of your life just happens to be the correct one? How lucky each one of you are."

Which actually goes only to show what an utter prat Dawkins is.   Sure Fundamentalists exist of all stripes but most serious thoughtful people of faith I know tend to think that the Almighty, the Alpha and Omega of all creation is especailly chuffed at which human syllables are used when calling his name and that people of ALL faith who make a sincere effort to reach out to him make contact with the same divine,  and the tents of their particular religion are not so much enteral and universal truths, but a moral system the works for THEM personally

It sounds like they're just doing the moral thing and not even bothering to 'pick' a God to which to dedicate themselves to.  That's cheating if you ask me.

In all seriousness, all those serious thoughtful people of faith are just doing what most atheists do, just with the need to give the credit to a god figure.


That's not really a problem, then.

Actually, I'd say a good chunk of religious individuals (myself included) no longer fit to one particular religious dogma. It's not quite as simple as guys like Dawkins, Harris, et al like to make it.
 
2013-08-21 04:18:30 PM  
Weaver95: Oh there are a lot of reasons modern Christianity is imploding and collapsing. Hypocrisy, lies, corruption...it's all there if you scratch the surface and look underneath the gloss.

Modern?

I think it was always there, it's just easier to dig beneath the surface in the information age.

// plus, heretics don't get burned as often these days
 
2013-08-21 04:20:21 PM  

SurfaceTension: PunGent: //WWJB?

Who would Jesus bang?


Who would Jesus blow.
 
2013-08-21 04:21:33 PM  

ZombieBear: Sofa King Smart:
I have had a vision of the future where the Bible Belt has lost its battle to choke back the expanding waistline of American Exceptionalism.... where the Pants of Religion have fallen around the ankles of reason and truth and knowledge... thereby exposing the throbbing throngs of the purple helmeted members of the secular humanists... chafing against the chains that have encumbered them for so long in the dark, dank, sweaty underwear of ignorance and intolerance.

This here, is a thing of horrifying beauty. I do not know whether to clap, or throw up a little, so both have been done.


the my little pony killer started down that path... and inspired my words... I was hoping someone with more of a talent for the poetry of the written word could 'flesh it out' so to speak and run with it (further).
( I think the purple helmeted ones should 'spring forth' into the light of day... perhaps rush headlong into the warm, protective cave of organized religion only to be nearly crushed by the onslaught of the believers into a hasty retreat... then thrust themselves, again into the melee... only to retreat again... perhaps doing this several times until establishing a rhythm... of thrusting and retreating, thrusting and retreating...  perhaps culminating in some sort of  cathartic release of some sort...

whew, I need to take a break now... perhaps a cigarette and a towel to wipe this glistening perspiration from my brow.
 
2013-08-21 04:23:22 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: meat0918: I heard his interview on Here & Now, and all I can say is, what a pompous, two faced, lying piece of shiat asshole that guy is.

Robin Young did that interview right? I swear you hear her disdain during the interview to the point I think she was mentally picturing the guy done up Vlad Tepes style


I could hear the incredulity in the interviewer's voice, but it was a tag team interview wasn't it, two people interviewing the guy?

Her followup regarding the comments on their site really sounded tense and apprehensive.  I had to go check, and kept seeing the comment count go up, then down, up, then down.
 
2013-08-21 04:24:36 PM  
Prophetic? THey need to prophesy something accurate before will call them that.
 
2013-08-21 04:25:36 PM  
I'm bored so why not.
"So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"  -Richard Dawkins

Sure. Yes. If someone believes in fairies, why not? Because it seems silly to you? Your beliefs may be silly to me. Why impede the beliefs of others by forcing your own upon them? Its like a person who doesn't like baseball telling everyone to stop watching baseball, because the infield fly rule is silly, or he finds it boring. Don't like baseball/religion? Don't watch/practice it. Same for all his "everyone is a little atheist" stuff. Sure, I don't like hockey, but I still like baseball.

/not Christian, nor Abrahamic
 
2013-08-21 04:27:22 PM  

Marine1: Actually, I'd say a good chunk of religious individuals (myself included) no longer fit to one particular religious dogma. It's not quite as simple as guys like Dawkins, Harris, et al like to make it.


This is the same problem with politics now. The larger problem lies with the fact that individualism is not stressed in America now. We are no longer independent or stress independent thought, instead we are characterized moreso by what political party we belong to and what religious denomination we belong to. Automatically, it is assumed that this means we hold those ideals that those parties / denominations are "thought" to hold as well. Most people would believe that because you are a Baptist, this means you don't drink or condone homosexual behavior or marriage. They are completely oblivious to the fact that individuals can hold their own opinions or that there are varying degrees of Baptists including conservative Baptists and liberal Baptists. That further can be broken down even further, down to the individual.
 
2013-08-21 04:27:37 PM  
They're neither moral nor majority.
Wake up and smell the coffee,
or just say no to individuality.

/when we pretend that we're dead
//come on come on come on come on...
 
2013-08-21 04:28:05 PM  
I know the 'reason' for church is supposedly God.  And it is. And it isn't.  It's about community. That's a big reason why Sunday morning is the most ethnically and economically segregated time in the country, good and bad. While I didn't end up an actual believer, I grew up pretty attached to a middle-class Methodist church of maybe 130 members, 80 or so on a boring Sunday.

Flipping through an old directory from when I left, 20 years back, I still know who most of those people were.  A lot of nostalgia (tied up in my parents being gone), but even as an atheist I do miss that. I'd seriously consider trying to raise a kid that way if I were able to have a kid (like my nearly atheist parents did for me). Having not grown up in the alternative, I'm not sure how that 'community' translates to megachurches. Is it like being a Steelers fan and you give someone a nod when you see the right bumper sticker? Not that there aren't tens of thousands of small Southern Baptist churches. Not that it feels like there's any great shortage of churches (they're bloody everywhere), but the megas sorta became the face of Protestantism in the last 20 years, and I'm not sure how how much people will keep affiliated with it.
 
2013-08-21 04:28:12 PM  

Gonz: On the bright side, the new Pope is driving him crazy. He's a Benedict XVI man, Francis isn't really his cup of tea at all.


I've seen quite a bit of the conservative Catholics, Benedict XVI fans all, quite concerned about the direction of their church. Of course, many of these people only give a shiat about gays and abortion and can't give a single fark about the rest of the Church positions.
 
2013-08-21 04:28:51 PM  

Solkar: Weaver95: cameroncrazy1984: Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.

Well, that and the Internet and the widely accessible information it provides.

Oh there are a lot of reasons modern Christianity is imploding and collapsing. Hypocrisy, lies, corruption...it's all there if you scratch the surface and look underneath the gloss. Maybe the evangelicals would be better off if all things Christian DID implode, at least for a while. If nothing else it would force them to reevaluate their faith and it's role in their lives and in society.

I still go to a Southern Baptist church, but I couldn't agree more with the above statements. The biggest thing I like about my current pastor, though, is that he keeps politics out of his sermons. That's not common anymore.


My ex's family goes to a United Methodist Church, which I would have to occasionally attend. I walked out of an Easter service, in front of my kids, after saying "bullshiat" loud enough for those around me to hear - I did this when the pastor started babbling about giving our troops the strength to kill Muslims and urging everyone to pray for Bush. And that's a UMC church. Most digusting bunch of upper middle class ignoramuses you will ever meet is at Mt. Bethel church in Marietta GA.
 
2013-08-21 04:29:39 PM  

meat0918: Her followup regarding the comments on their site really sounded tense and apprehensive. I had to go check, and kept seeing the comment count go up, then down, up, then down.


MIght have been double up, but they've only been expanded to the full 2 hours for a month now and wasn't it before that?

Ahh well, off to the google I go. I was in my car so I never got a chance to watch the comment page for that one. Divisive people tend to make some waves go off on the website when they are on
 
2013-08-21 04:32:11 PM  

SanjiSasuke: I'm bored so why not.
"So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"  -Richard Dawkins

Sure. Yes. If someone believes in fairies, why not? Because it seems silly to you? Your beliefs may be silly to me. Why impede the beliefs of others by forcing your own upon them? Its like a person who doesn't like baseball telling everyone to stop watching baseball, because the infield fly rule is silly, or he finds it boring. Don't like baseball/religion? Don't watch/practice it. Same for all his "everyone is a little atheist" stuff. Sure, I don't like hockey, but I still like baseball.

/not Christian, nor Abrahamic


However this line of thinking cannot be applied to everything. Because someone believes that having a sexual relationship with a child is ok does not make it right. When things enter into the "moral" territory, things get real tricky. There are no real compelling arguments on either side when it comes to laws being influenced by morality. Some may say that a person who is 16 should be old enough to drink because they can drive. Some may think that children at any age can drink. Some think this shouldn't be a law at all but the discretion of the parents. What in this case is "right"?
 
2013-08-21 04:33:14 PM  

dr_blasto: Gonz: On the bright side, the new Pope is driving him crazy. He's a Benedict XVI man, Francis isn't really his cup of tea at all.

I've seen quite a bit of the conservative Catholics, Benedict XVI fans all, quite concerned about the direction of their church. Of course, many of these people only give a shiat about gays and abortion and can't give a single fark about the rest of the Church positions.


I'm a recovering Catholic and I love the new pope. I still wonder what fancied the college that they picked him. When they announced the new pope was a jesuit my immediate thought was "well this is going to go over like a wet fart in church"
 
2013-08-21 04:34:41 PM  

dr_blasto: Gonz: On the bright side, the new Pope is driving him crazy. He's a Benedict XVI man, Francis isn't really his cup of tea at all.

I've seen quite a bit of the conservative Catholics, Benedict XVI fans all, quite concerned about the direction of their church. Of course, many of these people only give a shiat about gays and abortion and can't give a single fark about the rest of the Church positions.


It has been a little fun to watch the ultra-conservative Catholics I know (the ones who still think Vatican II was a bad idea and a passing fad) twist on a contruct of thier own making.  These are people who believe that catholicism requires blind obedience and agreement with the Pope (it doesn;t and never has) and have used that to hammer thier critics for years  ("Well the HOLY FATHER SAYS...so your argument is invalid, heretical, and probably sinful").  SO watching them confronted with a Pope Like Francis who in their eyes is so liberal he might as well be the spawn of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, whose nearly every decision they hate?  It has been ...amusing...to say the least
 
2013-08-21 04:35:29 PM  

SanjiSasuke: I'm bored so why not.
"So it is best to keep an open mind and be agnostic. At first sight that seems an unassailable position, at least in the weak sense of Pascal's wager. But on second thoughts it seems a cop-out, because the same could be said of Father Christmas and tooth fairies. There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"  -Richard Dawkins

Sure. Yes. If someone believes in fairies, why not? Because it seems silly to you? Your beliefs may be silly to me. Why impede the beliefs of others by forcing your own upon them? Its like a person who doesn't like baseball telling everyone to stop watching baseball, because the infield fly rule is silly, or he finds it boring. Don't like baseball/religion? Don't watch/practice it. Same for all his "everyone is a little atheist" stuff. Sure, I don't like hockey, but I still like baseball.

/not Christian, nor Abrahamic


Dawkins is just weird. He once wrote a post on his website about how Jesus would probably be an atheist if He were around today, because religion was so enforced at the time Jesus was around.

To me, if you don't like something - whether it's enforced by your culture or time period on this planet or not - you won't make your life about it. For instance, even though I live in a time and place where we have math available to us that would make the mathematicians of Rome drool... I'm not into it and don't like doing math, thus, I'm not studying math at my university. If Jesus was "take it or leave it" on religion, He wouldn't have walked through a freakin' desert with twelve other guys and no visible means of support, preaching what He preached, for the last three years of His life.
 
2013-08-21 04:39:17 PM  

scottydoesntknow: 'The Bible Belt is collapsing," says Russell Moore.

Maybe the Bible needs to stop eating so much


Hee hee!    :)

/Thanks for the giggle. It was much needed today
 
2013-08-21 04:40:03 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: dr_blasto: Gonz: On the bright side, the new Pope is driving him crazy. He's a Benedict XVI man, Francis isn't really his cup of tea at all.

I've seen quite a bit of the conservative Catholics, Benedict XVI fans all, quite concerned about the direction of their church. Of course, many of these people only give a shiat about gays and abortion and can't give a single fark about the rest of the Church positions.

I'm a recovering Catholic and I love the new pope. I still wonder what fancied the college that they picked him. When they announced the new pope was a jesuit my immediate thought was "well this is going to go over like a wet fart in church"


I'm not religious, spiritual or anything. But, I can say, this guy seems much more Jesus-y and close to the stated tenets of Christianity than any other Pope I've ever seen. Bendict XVI seemed almost the exact opposite. I am surprised they picked a Jesuit, but it really looks like they've picked the right guy.
 
2013-08-21 04:40:39 PM  

Voiceofreason01: simplicimus:
One farker explained his Christianity as accepting Jesus would forgive all your sins, past, present and future. As a Catholic (mostly) I found that more a pathology than a religion. And yes, the Prosperity Gospel is flat out heresy, approaching the stuff the Anti-Christ is supposed to preach (Not that I believe in Revelations).

Lutheran theology is that you are saved by God's Grace. ie you're not saved through acts or through the forgiveness of a priest(confession) or even through repentance.


Since most Lutherans I know are pretty nice people*, that would be a good counterpart to the "Christians only behave because they're afraid of hell" argument that pops up around here.
/* my step-daughter's husband is still an asshole
//Would still be, no matter what faith he was
 
2013-08-21 04:41:57 PM  
"On gay marriage, abortion, even on basic religious affiliation, the culture has moved away. So evangelicals need a new way of thinking-a new strategy, if you will-to attract and keep believers, as well as to influence American politics. "

Love unconditionally.

Bam, done in one.
 
2013-08-21 04:44:23 PM  

Lawnchair: I know the 'reason' for church is supposedly God.  And it is. And it isn't.  It's about community. That's a big reason why Sunday morning is the most ethnically and economically segregated time in the country, good and bad. While I didn't end up an actual believer, I grew up pretty attached to a middle-class Methodist church of maybe 130 members, 80 or so on a boring Sunday.

Flipping through an old directory from when I left, 20 years back, I still know who most of those people were.  A lot of nostalgia (tied up in my parents being gone), but even as an atheist I do miss that. I'd seriously consider trying to raise a kid that way if I were able to have a kid (like my nearly atheist parents did for me). Having not grown up in the alternative, I'm not sure how that 'community' translates to megachurches. Is it like being a Steelers fan and you give someone a nod when you see the right bumper sticker? Not that there aren't tens of thousands of small Southern Baptist churches. Not that it feels like there's any great shortage of churches (they're bloody everywhere), but the megas sorta became the face of Protestantism in the last 20 years, and I'm not sure how how much people will keep affiliated with it.


The greek root for the English word Church translates to "the people"   Church, and I would argue oranzied religion itself, has always been about building a social ntework of people with whom you share values and beliefs to re-inforce those values and beliefs and sometime take collective action to help carry out those priciples (charities, food drives etc).

I'm raised Roman Catholic...praticing..I don;t know the hell what, with a fairly strong "faith" nonetheless.  My wife is somewhere between "spiritual" and agnostic, with Family experiences with raltives that cause her to despise the RC church.   As my son hit adolesence we found ourselves regularly attending a non-demoninational (and very apoltical) evangelical christian chruch because my son made contact with it through a "boy's night that his Youth League Football coach and youth minster of the Church threw.  We realized that there was important socialization and moral development we were dnying the kid by not letting him have the Church expereince, whetever our private reservations aboutit were and so settled on this church because the PEOPLE were warm and friendly and the Dogma was welcoming and never exclusionary or hate-filled
 
2013-08-21 04:44:29 PM  
No, you're not a prophetic minority, you're a bunch of nutcases who are more concerned with thundering down condemnation of everyone who doesn't look and behave just like you, or rather, just like the way you *claim* you behave, than with following the precepts of the guy you claim to be your savior, whose "one weird trick" will slip you into paradise no matter how much of a dickbag you are in life, but whose teachings you steadfastly ignore, and in fact you would have him back up on a cross as an America-hating terrorist in a heartbeat if he came back and started saying the same things again.

Hope that cleared it up for you.
 
2013-08-21 04:44:44 PM  

Lawnchair: I know the 'reason' for church is supposedly God.  And it is. And it isn't.  It's about community. That's a big reason why Sunday morning is the most ethnically and economically segregated time in the country, good and bad. While I didn't end up an actual believer, I grew up pretty attached to a middle-class Methodist church of maybe 130 members, 80 or so on a boring Sunday.


Any time people question the power of church congregations, I tell my parents' story.  My dad passed about six months ago and was pretty sick for three years before that, including being unable to work for about the last 18 months.  There were many months, especially during the period before he could get on disability, when my mom had no idea how she was going to make the mortgage payment and somebody from church (often anonymously) would give her the money for it.  She works at a Christian bookstore and her boss gave her a month of paid leave (she had long used up her vacation) to stay home with my dad when it was clear we were pretty close to the end.  Just last week, a friend from church gave her $4000 to pay off her credit card and somebody else anonymously paid off her last hospital bill (about $5000).  I may not always agree with her church (it can be a little conservative for my taste), but they carried her through the hardest time of her life, and I will never forget that.
 
2013-08-21 04:44:47 PM  

clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.


I don't know, they're still the majority in Methamphetamine production. That's gotta be worth something, right? Must be awesome to be a dentist in the bible belt.
 
2013-08-21 04:46:39 PM  

Weaver95: When evangelicals started being more involved with politics than their relationship to the divine, Christianity started to lose its followers.


Evangelicals are not Christians, they are Republicans.

Otherwise they would not have voted for a Mormon.
 
2013-08-21 04:49:26 PM  

dr_blasto: I'm not religious, spiritual or anything. But, I can say, this guy seems much more Jesus-y and close to the stated tenets of Christianity than any other Pope I've ever seen. Bendict XVI seemed almost the exact opposite. I am surprised they picked a Jesuit, but it really looks like they've picked the right guy.


Yeah, when he snubbed the college to go wash some poor peoples feet I knew then that he's gonna be a little more jesusy and less popey
 
2013-08-21 04:50:19 PM  
Thank God...
 
2013-08-21 04:50:57 PM  

Modern Apothecary PharmD: clancifer: He misspelled 'pathetic'.

I don't know, they're still the majority in Methamphetamine production. That's gotta be worth something, right? Must be awesome to be a dentist in the bible belt.


Cause meth heads can afford dentistry?

/Texas, Buckle of the Bible Belt
//least insured state in the nation
 
2013-08-21 04:52:13 PM  
"We are no longer the moral majority. We are a prophetic minority"

an anachronism.
 
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