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(Tech Dirt)   NSA: We try to only spy on foreign targets, but get the occasional US citizen. Latest Leak: We tap into about 75% of US internet traffic and set our own filters with no oversight to worry about   (techdirt.com) divider line 318
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4204 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 2:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 05:31:07 PM  

Lando Lincoln: draypresct: True, he committed a felony. He was given the choice between lying under oath or revealing confidential information. Either way, he'd be committing a felony.

I'm thinking that telling the truth is the better of the two options. But he chose the worse one. He wouldn't have revealed confidential information. He would have confirmed it.


Confirming confidentical information is still a crime. This has put people in some pretty odd positions in the past, but it's still a crime.
 
2013-08-21 05:35:27 PM  

BullBearMS: draypresct: He was given the choice between lying under oath or revealing confidential information. Either way, he'd be committing a felony.

No.

He was given a choice between committing a felony and saying he couldn't answer that question in an open forum.


I think that response would have been just as revealing as a "yes", given the context, but that might have been a better approach given his choices.
 
2013-08-21 05:37:42 PM  

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Kit Fister: (not gun nuts, no one listens to them)
I've got an entity known as the United States House of Representatives that says otherwise.


Because the majority of the people who are talking right now are doing the same things that Feinstein's doing: Forcing an extreme in order to compromise closer to what they're willing to live with. And, when it comes to rights and responsibilities, sometimes the "Extreme" is the correct one.
 
2013-08-21 05:38:05 PM  

draypresct: robbiex0r: Lando Lincoln: draypresct: Just out of curiosity - can anyone in this thread think of a solution? One where we collect all the intelligence we need?

Yeah, I do. Don't collect the data. And stop giving a terrorists a reason to hate us. Imagine all of the money and lives we'd save if we stopped spying on everyone AND pulled our troops out of the middle east. We'd be rolling in the dough.

So much this. It's pretty obvious they don't hate us for our Freedoms(tm). They hate us for doing what America has done for 70+ years.

Do you think you can put together a list of things we can do that would make everyone with the capability to attack us stop hating us? Even in countries that like us, where most of the citizens have a favorable view of us, there are groups that hate us.

I can't even think of how we'd be able to get everyone _inside_ the US to approve of our government and society, let alone everyone in the world.


It's not like its difficult to pick out shiat that needs changing. If you're old enlightened to post on fark the USG has been responsible for the deaths of half a million innocent peopleat the very least during your lifetime.
 
2013-08-21 05:39:54 PM  

Ned Stark: draypresct: robbiex0r: Lando Lincoln: draypresct: Just out of curiosity - can anyone in this thread think of a solution? One where we collect all the intelligence we need?

Yeah, I do. Don't collect the data. And stop giving a terrorists a reason to hate us. Imagine all of the money and lives we'd save if we stopped spying on everyone AND pulled our troops out of the middle east. We'd be rolling in the dough.

So much this. It's pretty obvious they don't hate us for our Freedoms(tm). They hate us for doing what America has done for 70+ years.

Do you think you can put together a list of things we can do that would make everyone with the capability to attack us stop hating us? Even in countries that like us, where most of the citizens have a favorable view of us, there are groups that hate us.

I can't even think of how we'd be able to get everyone _inside_ the US to approve of our government and society, let alone everyone in the world.

It's not like its difficult to pick out shiat that needs changing. If you're old enlightened to post on fark the USG has been responsible for the deaths of half a million innocent peopleat the very least during your lifetime.


Old enough.


Enlightened?? What the hell spellcheck?
 
2013-08-21 05:40:39 PM  

vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.


Before the recent leaks most idiots assumed that just because the Patriot act said the Feds could do this kind of spying that it wasn't actually happening.
 
2013-08-21 05:41:29 PM  

draypresct: Do you think you can put together a list of things we can do that would make everyone with the capability to attack us stop hating us?


Nope. We'll never make everyone happy, just like we'll never stop every attack. But we can sure as hell minimize the gripes by stop putting American troops in foreign countries. How would we feel if Saudi Arabia sent troops to a Saudi-controlled base in the middle of Texas? Our government would say, "No, it's okay, Texans! We asked them to put a base in Dallas! To protect the oil fields!" And then Texans would say, "Oh, well...if our government ASKED them to be there, then I guess it's okay..."
 
2013-08-21 05:43:49 PM  

reaperducer: Outrageous Muff: Lando Lincoln: It's not like they were illegally doing this years ago and once they were found out to be doing it, just changed the laws to make it legal.

No, no, our government would never do anything like that.

Guess what. Governments have been spying on each other since the one cave found another cave and wanted to know what they were up too.  Your complete lack of understanding is this basic realm of international relations is stunning, but not unexpected.

Ah, the old "It's always been this way, so it's OK" argument.  Usually the weapon of six-year-olds, right after they realize that "Because everybody else is doing it" isn't a legitimate argument, either.

Some civics, history, and critical thinking courses would do you good.


You're right. The arguments of strawman, slippery slope, concern trolling, and bare assertions are much better than a factual understanding of the ongoing situation.

You're so smart. What University do you teach at? I need to make sure my future children avoid it forever.
 
2013-08-21 05:44:41 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-21 05:45:03 PM  

Lando Lincoln: draypresct: Do you think you can put together a list of things we can do that would make everyone with the capability to attack us stop hating us?

Nope. We'll never make everyone happy, just like we'll never stop every attack. But we can sure as hell minimize the gripes by stop putting American troops in foreign countries. How would we feel if Saudi Arabia sent troops to a Saudi-controlled base in the middle of Texas? Our government would say, "No, it's okay, Texans! We asked them to put a base in Dallas! To protect the oil fields!" And then Texans would say, "Oh, well...if our government ASKED them to be there, then I guess it's okay..."


That's really a different argument entirely from the "should the government collect data from the internet?" though isn't it? They are certainly not mutually exclusive.
 
2013-08-21 05:45:52 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Outrageous Muff: Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too.

It's not like they were illegally doing this years ago and once they were found out to be doing it, just changed the laws to make it legal.

No, no, our government would never do anything like that.


This is exactly why the politicians say that things like the FISA court is a good thing that is protecting our liberties. They knew this was going on anyway and saw the court as a way to provide some oversight.
 
2013-08-21 05:46:03 PM  
As always, it's easiest to just follow the money.  Who gets paid from these heuristic search algorithms and mountains of database servers?

The TSA nudie-scanners made Michael Chertoff a rich man.  Who is in on this payday?
 
2013-08-21 05:46:33 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Could this tool be used to identify US citizens that are talking about doing something against the government, because the government is ignoring certain parts of the Constitution? Then this is a tool that could really do some serious harm to our society.


The obvious solution is that everyone needs to start talking about how to do something against the government, and just flood them with noise.

\Noise.
\\Noise
 
2013-08-21 05:47:44 PM  

mizchief: vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.

Before the recent leaks most idiots assumed that just because the Patriot act said the Feds could do this kind of spying that it wasn't actually happening.


Although there have been many people trying to get you to believe the Patriot Act allows for Bush and Obama's blanket spying on all Americans, this is a total lie.

What happened is that just like Bush falsely claimed his secret interpretation of the law allowed for tortue, Obama claimed he had his own secret interpretation of the Patriot Act that allowed him to spy on everyone.

For more than two years, a handful of Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee have warned that the government is secretly interpreting its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming if the public - or even others in Congress - knew about it.

On Thursday, two of those senators - Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado - went further. They said a top-secret intelligence operation that is based on that secret legal theory is not as crucial to national security as executive branch officials have maintained.
 
2013-08-21 05:47:57 PM  

Outrageous Muff: Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?


This is why the started hitting up Google and the other tech companies. They did all the hard work of aggregating the data and the NSA just incorporated the results into their own searches.
 
2013-08-21 05:49:39 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Outrageous Muff: BafflerMeal: 1.  NSA et al collects data w/o warrants
2.  finds something domestic
3.  hands over poison data to domestic
4.  4th amendment violation

"Posion" data that can't be used as evidence in any court. So no 4th Amendment violation.


Check out this guy, who missed the article about local law enforcement officers using NSA gathered intelligence and lying about the source. Somebody less lazy than me, please provide him with a link.


I know I rag on you a lot, but this.

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/10/the_nsa_dea_police_state_tango/
 
2013-08-21 05:52:04 PM  

justtray: That's really a different argument entirely from the "should the government collect data from the internet?" though isn't it? They are certainly not mutually exclusive.


True, but someone asked how to minimize the collateral damage from data mining. One solution is to "not data mine." Which leads to the question, "but how are we going to stop people from attacking us then?" and the answer to THAT is "focus on minimizing why people want to attack us in the first place, thus obviating the need to spend so much effort on spying on everyone on earth."

We want our cake and we want to eat it too. We want to do whatever we want to whomever we want and we want to suffer zero consequences for doing so, and to achieve both of those goals, we need to keep an eye on everybody. It's a cycle that deserves to end.
 
2013-08-21 05:52:50 PM  

mizchief: Lando Lincoln: Outrageous Muff: Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too.

It's not like they were illegally doing this years ago and once they were found out to be doing it, just changed the laws to make it legal.

No, no, our government would never do anything like that.

This is exactly why the politicians say that things like the FISA court is a good thing that is protecting our liberties. They knew this was going on anyway and saw the court as a way to provide some oversight.


Oh, really?

"The FISC is forced to rely upon the accuracy of the information that is provided to the Court," its chief, U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton, said in a written statement to The Washington Post. "The FISC does not have the capacity to investigate issues of noncompliance, and in that respect the FISC is in the same position as any other court when it comes to enforcing [government] compliance with its orders."

There is no possible way that can be interpreted as "oversight".
 
2013-08-21 05:54:02 PM  

GoodDoctorB: CrazyCracka420: Obvious tag on vacation?  Where have you people been the last 10 years?

I think the real story here is how many people apparently had no idea the NSA was the NSA.


Yea it was a brilliant move when the NSA was created and one wise man suggested changing the word "Surveillance" to "Security"
 
2013-08-21 05:54:30 PM  

Outrageous Muff: BafflerMeal: 1.  NSA et al collects data w/o warrants
2.  finds something domestic
3.  hands over poison data to domestic
4.  4th amendment violation

"Posion" data that can't be used as evidence in any court. So no 4th Amendment violation.


There was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of weeks ago.

Summary:  The NSA has ways of cleaning the data and getting it to the local law enforcement agencies.  Sometimes by arranging physical coincidences.  Sometimes through a "nexus" that different agencies use to pass information.  Sometimes through "anonymous informants" who cannot be questioned in court.

tl;dr version:  You're wrong.
 
2013-08-21 05:54:41 PM  

draypresct: midigod: The NSA themselves acknowledge thousands of those abuses.

From your link: "The NSA audit obtained by The Post, dated May 2012, counted 2,776 incidents in the preceding 12 months of unauthorized collection, storage, access to or distribution of legally protected communications. Most were unintended. Many involved failures of due diligence or violations of standard operating procedure. The most serious incidents included a violation of a court order and unauthorized use of data about more than 3,000 Americans and green-card holders."

I hate to tell you this, but if you look at any situation where people are collecting confidential data on you (hospitals, credit card companies, ISPs), you're going to see large numbers of violations. Any time you employ human beings to manage confidential data, there are going to be violations.

The question is what the institution is doing about it, and what other solutions are available.

Just out of curiosity - can anyone in this thread think of a solution? One where we collect all the intelligence we need? I don't think public oversight is realistic in this context - this stuff needs to be kept secret.


"Most"?

So some of those were with malice aforethought?
 
2013-08-21 05:54:41 PM  
(This comment has been removed)
 
2013-08-21 05:57:28 PM  

BafflerMeal: As expected.  About a month ago a person from the TLAs told me about the first all hands briefing they had after Snowden.  The person said it was going to get 'much worse'.

/welcomes all of you to the party.
/better late than never
/can I take your coat?


You want my coat, too, now?
 
2013-08-21 05:59:07 PM  

Outrageous Muff: mraudacia: guess you havent heard about that 2 billion dollar data hub they built... john oliver did a good piece on it, its on youtube.

try to keep up grandpa.

A data hub, next to housing development, that was publicly announced as a data hub by the government. I don't know if you are aware, but Big Data is the new thing and housing the servers for an organization as large as the US Government would require a large building. But you keep thinking someone in some shadowy room is logging all the cock pics you sext to people.

Snarfangel: Which is why they can't waste time getting warrants.

The NSA does not need warrants since foreign nationals do not have the same rights as Americans. Deal with it.

However regulations say that all NSA collected data can not be used against a US citizen and that all dealings with citizens are handed over to the FBI who does get warrants. But don't let that keep you from your Jackbooted Governments Brown Shirt fantasies.


The BigData aspect is exactly what the NSA wants from the american people. Having a good sense of exactly how much BS the public will take. Need to know if you can afford to piss off a certain lobby group? Want to know how to draw the congressional districts so that you and your other fellow congress critters can stay in power?
 
2013-08-21 05:59:36 PM  

Lando Lincoln: justtray: That's really a different argument entirely from the "should the government collect data from the internet?" though isn't it? They are certainly not mutually exclusive.

True, but someone asked how to minimize the collateral damage from data mining. One solution is to "not data mine." Which leads to the question, "but how are we going to stop people from attacking us then?" and the answer to THAT is "focus on minimizing why people want to attack us in the first place, thus obviating the need to spend so much effort on spying on everyone on earth."

We want our cake and we want to eat it too. We want to do whatever we want to whomever we want and we want to suffer zero consequences for doing so, and to achieve both of those goals, we need to keep an eye on everybody. It's a cycle that deserves to end.


I agree, but as I think you or someone else mentioned, there's no perfect solution. There will always be terrorism. If not because "f america!" then it will simply be senseless along the lines of Sandy Hook or the Boston Marathon bombers. (although you can make a strong case for religious focus for that too)
 
2013-08-21 06:00:16 PM  

Apik0r0s: This is how J Edgar Hoover maintained his power for so long, by holding dirt on everyone. Don't play ball? Forget Lewinsky, we have a new method now, the Spitzer - where we leak wiretap info to the NYT and let them out you as using an escort service - can't have you digging into all the dirty money that is Wall Street.

Compromised emails and internet use would explain why Congress and SCOTUS went completely insane about the same time the new NSA toys came online.


I wonder if Clapper also likes to dress up as a woman and engage in homosexual BDSM encounters.

Because Hoover sure did.
 
2013-08-21 06:05:37 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Outrageous Muff: BafflerMeal: 1.  NSA et al collects data w/o warrants
2.  finds something domestic
3.  hands over poison data to domestic
4.  4th amendment violation

"Posion" data that can't be used as evidence in any court. So no 4th Amendment violation.


Check out this guy, who missed the article about local law enforcement officers using NSA gathered intelligence and lying about the source. Somebody less lazy than me, please provide him with a link.


It's called information laundering and it happens all the time not just with NSA data. This happens all the time when the civil air patrol or police aircraft uses IR cameras to find houses with hot grow lights installed, then the cops just happen to walk by the house with a drug dog that gives the cue that they smell pot and then go get a warrant based on probable cause.
 
2013-08-21 06:07:34 PM  

draypresct: True, he committed a felony. He was given the choice between lying under oath or revealing confidential information. Either way, he'd be committing a felony.


It's like he received a national security letter.

Let me play my tiny violin for him.
 
2013-08-21 06:11:17 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: elchupacabra: Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary proof.

Here's the chief technology officer of the CIA saying they collect everything on everyone and hold on to it indefinitely in case they need it in the future. Among other things.

/it won't even matter
//a news anchor on TV will tell you different and you'll believe them


That's a slight distortion of what the Hunt said.  Around the 20:30 mark, he says, "We fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever, 'forever' being in quotes, of course."  This validates your first point but invalidates your second point.  Granted, we will never know what the CIA thinks is "forever," but Hunt strongly implies it's not forever.
 
2013-08-21 06:13:40 PM  

acohn: J. Frank Parnell: elchupacabra: Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary proof.

Here's the chief technology officer of the CIA saying they collect everything on everyone and hold on to it indefinitely in case they need it in the future. Among other things.

/it won't even matter
//a news anchor on TV will tell you different and you'll believe them

That's a slight distortion of what the Hunt said.  Around the 20:30 mark, he says, "We fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever, 'forever' being in quotes, of course."  This validates your first point but invalidates your second point.  Granted, we will never know what the CIA thinks is "forever," but Hunt strongly implies it's not forever.


www.partycrashertshirts.com
 
2013-08-21 06:17:04 PM  

acohn: J. Frank Parnell: elchupacabra: Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary proof.

Here's the chief technology officer of the CIA saying they collect everything on everyone and hold on to it indefinitely in case they need it in the future. Among other things.

/it won't even matter
//a news anchor on TV will tell you different and you'll believe them

That's a slight distortion of what the Hunt said.  Around the 20:30 mark, he says, "We fundamentally try to collect everything and hang on to it forever, 'forever' being in quotes, of course."  This validates your first point but invalidates your second point.  Granted, we will never know what the CIA thinks is "forever," but Hunt strongly implies it's not forever.


He should have just testified that they "hang on to what they collect forever - literally" and he would have been fine either way.
 
2013-08-21 06:18:51 PM  

ThighsofGlory: BafflerMeal: As expected.  About a month ago a person from the TLAs told me about the first all hands briefing they had after Snowden.  The person said it was going to get 'much worse'.

/welcomes all of you to the party.
/better late than never
/can I take your coat?

You want my coat, too, now?


Well, if it's a nice coat, sure.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-21 06:26:41 PM  
 
2013-08-21 06:48:10 PM  

BullBearMS: draypresct: He was given the choice between lying under oath or revealing confidential information. Either way, he'd be committing a felony.

No.

He was given a choice between committing a felony and saying he couldn't answer that question in an open forum.


He had another option - to say something like this: "Senator Wyden, given your position on the Senate Intelligence Committee, you should know when an action violates national security laws.  I will do everything in my power to see that those laws are vigorously enforced."  and then leave.  The following day, Wyden would be lucky to be alive, much less in Congress.
 
2013-08-21 06:53:56 PM  

Outrageous Muff: Nemo's Brother: You don't understand the true purpose of this. It is not preventative but retaliatory. Someone pisses off a politician, you can go root throuhg all of their files

Their files? How do you think the world works? Politicians hire PI's all the time. You honestly think the government spends all day working to keep you down?


I am hoping that this is a joke. What if you invoke HIPPA and say well no cloud data for you.
/just sayin
// n joy the cloud
 
2013-08-21 06:56:24 PM  
BullBearMS:

NSA Director Keith Alexander: ...But to conduct that kind of collection in the United States it would have to go through a court order, and the court would have to authorize it. We're not authorized to do it, nor do we do it.

As mentioned earlier, he's being lawyerly, not explicitly lying.  The NSA has other groups/companies do their data collection and send them the results.  A distinction without a difference, to be sure, but not legally lying.
 
2013-08-21 07:17:27 PM  

robbiex0r: The problem isn't the government, it's the people who demand "safety" at any and all expense.


For eight years we had an administration screaming "You're all going to die tomorrow unless you give us everything we want!" while at the same time spoon-feeding our lame-ass media their scare stories of the day. This fear didn't bubble up from the people, it was carefully tended by the government.
 
2013-08-21 07:21:42 PM  

acohn: BullBearMS:

NSA Director Keith Alexander: ...But to conduct that kind of collection in the United States it would have to go through a court order, and the court would have to authorize it. We're not authorized to do it, nor do we do it.

As mentioned earlier, he's being lawyerly, not explicitly lying.  The NSA has other groups/companies do their data collection and send them the results.  A distinction without a difference, to be sure, but not legally lying.


Bullshiat excuse is incorrect.

He is explicitly lying.
 
2013-08-21 07:22:33 PM  

Biological Ali: Evil High Priest: mediablitz: nmrsnr: Voiceofreason01: lying to congress is a crime

Oh, you talking about Clapper? If you want to go after him, be my guest, the NSA, however, didn't lie to Congress, since they already knew the answer when they asked him the question.

I'm embarrassed whenever anyone trots out the "Clapper lied!!!" silliness. His response is online, in PDF form. He misunderstood a question. He's really old. He clarified as soon as he realized he misunderstood.

You do know he had the question in hand, in writing, the day before the hearing, right? If he really is that incompetent, he needs to be replaced immediately.

It wouldn't matter how well in advance he had the question if he thought the question was about something else entirely.


Wow. That's incredibly weak even for you. Bootlick harder.
 
2013-08-21 07:25:43 PM  

Evil High Priest: Wow. That's incredibly weak even for you. Bootlick harder.


Instead of meaningless insults, how about you try to walk me through your logic here?

I mean, if Clapper is under the impression that the question is about email content and not telephone metadata, what difference would it make if he was given the question in advance? Would he magically be able to discern the question's true meaning just by staring at it long enough or something?
 
2013-08-21 07:32:46 PM  
 
2013-08-21 07:33:49 PM  

The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.


No, what I find sad, or perhaps astonishing, is how many of those citizens are carrying on as if this is something new and unusual.
 
2013-08-21 07:34:37 PM  
 
2013-08-21 07:37:23 PM  

BullBearMS: Clapper Admits He Lied to Congress in Letter Posted by Senator Wyden


Hilarious! Thanks.
 
2013-08-21 07:39:31 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.

No, what I find sad, or perhaps astonishing, is how many of those citizens are carrying on as if this is something new and unusual.


And I find it sad that that is your focus. Let's take one more minute to dwell on this, and then move the fark along to the actual subject at hand.
 
2013-08-21 07:40:55 PM  

Evil High Priest: BullBearMS: Clapper Admits He Lied to Congress in Letter Posted by Senator Wyden

Hilarious! Thanks.


Just doing my part against the forces of lies and misinformation.

/Hat tip
 
2013-08-21 07:45:30 PM  

Evil High Priest: BullBearMS: Clapper Admits He Lied to Congress in Letter Posted by Senator Wyden

Hilarious! Thanks.


Yeah, it's about as hilarious as the various right-wing blogs offering ironclad proof about how the administration "admitted" that they "lied" about Benghazi.
 
2013-08-21 07:46:12 PM  

Evil High Priest: Gyrfalcon: The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.

No, what I find sad, or perhaps astonishing, is how many of those citizens are carrying on as if this is something new and unusual.

And I find it sad that that is your focus. Let's take one more minute to dwell on this, and then move the fark along to the actual subject at hand.


We should probably just ignore the fact that the Obama administration has constantly lied and claimed they were doing no such thing right up until the point when whistle blowers proved them to be liars.

How dare anybody believe that lying ass Obama!?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-08-21 08:06:44 PM  

BullBearMS: Evil High Priest: BullBearMS: Clapper Admits He Lied to Congress in Letter Posted by Senator Wyden

Hilarious! Thanks.

Just doing my part against the forces of lies and misinformation.

/Hat tip


You have been killing this thread. I am in awe.
 
2013-08-21 08:15:18 PM  
You can pretty much count on everything that people say as pure bullsh.
 
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