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(Tech Dirt)   NSA: We try to only spy on foreign targets, but get the occasional US citizen. Latest Leak: We tap into about 75% of US internet traffic and set our own filters with no oversight to worry about   (techdirt.com) divider line 322
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4201 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 2:41 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:11:49 PM
Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.
 
2013-08-21 01:20:24 PM
Clearly, the semantic difference between the headline's words and the article's words mean there is nothing here about which anyone should be concerned. As all patriots know, we should never fear the government's ability to do something. This is why so many people who are fine with NSA spying programs completely support gun registration.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:08 PM
I just can't wait until the next Republican president so that I can say, "But Obama."
 
2013-08-21 01:26:52 PM

vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.


So if the NSA is only 25% violating the law, that's all good?
 
2013-08-21 01:28:08 PM
I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:30:38 PM

Pocket Ninja: Clearly, the semantic difference between the headline's words and the article's words mean there is nothing here about which anyone should be concerned. As all patriots know, we should never fear the government's ability to do something. This is why so many people who are fine with NSA spying programs completely support gun registration.


So if you say something that isn't true, it's just a "semantic difference", sort of like being "economical with the truth"?  Or is this one of your trolls?
 
2013-08-21 01:32:27 PM

Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting


I'm guessing its a catch all, parsed through some recognition programs to see certain words, addresses, etc... then checking against other stuff, then if it raises a flag, is brought to the attention of a human...who then looks at your phone calls, emails, library books checked out, credit report, name of the person you took to prom...
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:32:54 PM

Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting


I do think that the idea of being interesting enough to watch is a part of what attracts people to these sort of conspiracy theories.
 
2013-08-21 01:36:06 PM

vpb: Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting

I do think that the idea of being interesting enough to watch is a part of what attracts people to these sort of conspiracy theories.


This is how I feel about it...

i586.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 01:52:39 PM

Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting


That's hardly the point. See, what happens is, people with good intentions create powerful tools, and then later on people with bad intentions take those tools and use them for nefarious purposes.

Could this tool be used to identify US citizens that are talking about doing something against the government, because the government is ignoring certain parts of the Constitution? Then this is a tool that could really do some serious harm to our society.
 
2013-08-21 01:53:19 PM
images.nitrosell.com
 
2013-08-21 02:26:41 PM

vpb: We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.


Actually that's a pretty good comparison: We have the capacity to nuke Beijing, but we have the capacity to re-target and then nuke Chicago. And re-targeting nukes is not a few computer taps away.

It's publicly known NSA can spy on Americans with a keypress. Now imagine what we haven't heard about.
 
2013-08-21 02:31:26 PM
Again, the US government has the capability to spy on you. This will never change. The questions are 1) do they have the legal authority to spy on you? 2a) Are they abusing that authority? 2b) Are they breaking the law and doing it anyway?

The answer to 1 seems to be mostly no, barring unusual circumstance, and while you may have suspicions about the answers to 2a and/or 2b, so far all the "shocking news" has been about capability, which isn't actually all that new, and not about any actual abuses of that capability.
 
2013-08-21 02:44:17 PM
How is NSAnta Claus supposed to find out who is naughty and nice without spying on everyone?
 
2013-08-21 02:44:28 PM
Article: "The NSA is spying on 75% of the Internet!"

Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too.
 
2013-08-21 02:45:52 PM
Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.
 
2013-08-21 02:46:05 PM

Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting


It would be interesting to see how they calibrate or tune their filters. Do they use persons of interest to do that? Do they use fake data? Do they use some soccer mom's daily internet adventures? Fleshlight customers?
 
2013-08-21 02:46:18 PM

Rand's lacy underwear: Now imagine what we haven't heard about.


As someone who used to be in this line of work, this was the first thing outta my mouth when the story originally broke.
 
2013-08-21 02:46:27 PM

Outrageous Muff: Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too.


It's not like they were illegally doing this years ago and once they were found out to be doing it, just changed the laws to make it legal.

No, no, our government would never do anything like that.
 
2013-08-21 02:47:04 PM

The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.


"But they're keeping us SAFE!"
 
2013-08-21 02:47:09 PM
Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?
 
2013-08-21 02:47:10 PM
Obvious tag on vacation?  Where have you people been the last 10 years?
 
2013-08-21 02:47:17 PM

I_C_Weener: vpb: Mugato: I'm not an expert on This but I know a little and while they're not looking at everyones shiat just assume that they are. But most likely you Are not that interesting

I do think that the idea of being interesting enough to watch is a part of what attracts people to these sort of conspiracy theories.

This is how I feel about it...

[i586.photobucket.com image 508x528]


LLS!
Ever have a kid ask to use your laptop and you think, "now, I'm pretty sure I closed that page but I could have forgot while I was wiping spunk off of my hands"?

Then, you have to tell the kid...sure, but hold on a second.


/I'm asking because I've heard that it happens.
 
2013-08-21 02:47:58 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-08-21 02:49:11 PM

Lando Lincoln: It's not like they were illegally doing this years ago and once they were found out to be doing it, just changed the laws to make it legal.

No, no, our government would never do anything like that.


Guess what. Governments have been spying on each other since the one cave found another cave and wanted to know what they were up too.  Your complete lack of understanding is this basic realm of international relations is stunning, but not unexpected.
 
2013-08-21 02:49:59 PM

The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.


The total feark left is a prime example of stockholm syndrome
 
PJ-
2013-08-21 02:50:04 PM

The Muthaship: Maybe sadder than the fact that the government is illegally spying on innocent Americans en mass, is how many of those citizens are making excuses for them.


My personal favorite one is 'well if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be worried about'.  So if i'm doing nothing wrong, I should have no problem with being treated like a criminal?
 
2013-08-21 02:50:32 PM

vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.


The only group denying they do these things are the media, and you're taking their opinion over the NSA and CIA themselves who have said in no uncertain terms they do collect data on everyone. I guess we know who does your thinking for you.
 
2013-08-21 02:50:38 PM

Outrageous Muff: Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?


Do you non-technical unpatriotic fascist boot-lickers realize the ease that a computer (or a whole farm of computers) can run data through filters?  Do you realize that these filters then mark data for review by a live human?

I don't understand the point you're making.  Every piece of digital data that goes across a physical line in the United States and is routed through commerical network hubs, is routed through NSA equipment that filters the data and looks for key words/phrases (or origination/destination) and either marks it for further review and stores the data, or decides it not worthwhile, and does not store the data.

You do know the post office is taking pictures of every piece of mail and storing them in databases??
 
2013-08-21 02:51:01 PM

Outrageous Muff: Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?


guess you havent heard about that 2 billion dollar data hub they built... john oliver did a good piece on it, its on youtube.

try to keep up grandpa.
 
2013-08-21 02:51:01 PM

Outrageous Muff: Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?


Which is why they can't waste time getting warrants.
 
2013-08-21 02:51:03 PM
Just a piece of paper.

a.abcnews.com
 
2013-08-21 02:51:36 PM

Al_Ed: Rand's lacy underwear: Now imagine what we haven't heard about.

As someone who used to be in this line of work, this was the first thing outta my mouth when the story originally broke.


I don't want to be THAT guy, but I remember in all of the "Truther" threads when people like me suggested that maybe the Bush administration knew more or even were complicit, the argument against it was, "the governement is incapable of that sort of efficiency".


/I guess they've been training
 
2013-08-21 02:52:10 PM
Let's try paraphrasing former agent Le Carre again; "post-war security agencies have cost their own countries more than they're worth."

Now let's see if we'll get a calm, dispassionate analysis of his theorem, or the simple-minded ad hominem attacks we got the last time we advanced the idea.

/I know, welcome to fark :)
 
2013-08-21 02:52:19 PM
The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

We can spy on them... we have the capacity.

It's the six billion petabyte plan.

In all seriousness, it's a bit unnerving. The oversight is thin, and the people doing the oversight are the jackinapes who voted 40 times to repeal Obamacare.
 
2013-08-21 02:52:47 PM
Hello...just stay in the 25% of the internet they're not monitoring.   Duhhh?
 
2013-08-21 02:53:36 PM

Outrageous Muff: Article: "The NSA is spying on 75% of the Internet!"

Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too.


Yet there are repeated reports of violation of these SOPs.

I know that government doesn't care how much i search for redheads when looking for pr4ns, but that doesn't mean this data can't be used in other ways that was not intended when the rules and regs were created. I mean, it appears any analyst can walk away with loads of data and give it to a journalist. That alone tells me these programs need far more rigorous oversight and security measures. If those need to be looked at, then I bet the oversight into controlling law conformity needs addressing as well.

There will always be spying - some will be necessary, some won't. The trick is to have enough vigilance to force oversight to keep the amount of power from getting out of hand.
 
2013-08-21 02:53:56 PM

AGremlin: Hello...just stay in the 25% of the internet they're not monitoring. Duhhh?


That's reserved for the illuminati pedophile ring.
 
2013-08-21 02:54:00 PM

vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.


I agree with your point about the article and the headline.

But once government gets the ability or power (two different things, yes) to do or for something, it rarely lets go.
 
2013-08-21 02:54:32 PM

Outrageous Muff: Article: "The NSA is spying on 75% of the Internet!"


Reality: The NSA has the capability to log 75% of communications, but doesn't get to nearly half that because of the vast amount of rules and regulations they have to adhere too ignore.

FTFM
 
2013-08-21 02:54:52 PM

PJ-: My personal favorite one is 'well if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to be worried about'. So if i'm doing nothing wrong, I should have no problem with being treated like a criminal?


Gee, people who are against gun registration, arbitrary gun bans, and many other of the proposals floated for gun control say the same damn thing and are called paranoid.

NOT SO FUNNY NOW, IS IT?!
 
2013-08-21 02:55:24 PM

uncleacid: Just a piece of paper.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]


A piece of paper that is being treated like this more and more:

1389blog.com
 
2013-08-21 02:56:05 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: I don't want to be THAT guy, but I remember in all of the "Truther" threads when people like me suggested that maybe the Bush administration knew more or even were complicit, the argument against it was, "the governement is incapable of that sort of efficiency".


/I guess they've been training


As has been mentioned, the actual usefulness of what data has actually been collected I'd imagine is questionable...simply from sheer volume. But that doesn't make the act of collection proper or legal.
 
2013-08-21 02:56:38 PM

vpb: Headline: We tap into 75% of US internet traffic.

TFA: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

Having the capacity to do something is not the same thing as doing it.  We have the capacity to nuke Chicago, but that doesn't mean that we have already done it.

This sort of straw man is typical of these NSA "spying" stories.


I came in here to say this. Jesus christ, you people are tech-illiterate.
 
2013-08-21 02:57:12 PM
This is why I always attach MP3's to my emails. If the RIAA finds out that NSA is listening to music without paying for it, the NSA will have their internet service disconnected.
 
2013-08-21 02:57:26 PM

I_C_Weener: I just can't wait until the next Republican president so that I can say, "But Obama."


Obama made congress create this law before he was even President! That's how deep it goes!

And he won't even use his dictator powers to stop it!
 
2013-08-21 02:57:30 PM

uncleacid: Just a piece of paper.

[a.abcnews.com image 640x360]


I thought it was hemp.
 
2013-08-21 02:58:03 PM

Outrageous Muff: Do you tinfoil-wearing internet pirvacy people understand the logistical problems that arise from recording that much data? Much less the time and manpower it would take to look at at and catalog it for anything?


So instead of speaking up now when its merely a moral outrage we should let em do whatever they want for a decade until the technology improves enough for it to be a practical outrage as well?

Any reason why?
 
2013-08-21 02:58:04 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: The system has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic

We can spy on them... we have the capacity.

It's the six billion petabyte plan.

In all seriousness, it's a bit unnerving. The oversight is thin, and the people doing the oversight are the jackinapes who voted 40 times to repeal Obamacare.


When did Feinstein (Senate Intelligence Committee head - in charge over oversight) vote to overturn Obamacare? And what does Obamacare have to do with NSA spying?
 
2013-08-21 02:58:17 PM
The conclusion on the redacted document was very clear.

EVERYTHING IS FINE!!! What more do you people need?!?!?!
 
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