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(Broward/Palm Beach New Times)   Headline: "Pit bulls much less aggressive than other breeds." Article: "to their owners"   (blogs.browardpalmbeach.com) divider line 131
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2051 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 1:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 06:28:03 PM
i758.photobucket.comi758.photobucket.com

/R.I.P my love
//Miss you lots
 
2013-08-21 07:01:11 PM
Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.
 
2013-08-21 07:23:54 PM

letrole: Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.


Wow damn, you got more copy/paste material. I'm so impressed. Just don't get confused and post this instead of the 'if a man gets turned on at the site of a man or a man gets turned on at the site of a woman bla bla bla' thing in the gay rights threads.
 
2013-08-21 07:28:17 PM
hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]

Not a valid citation. It refers to a study done by Merritt Clifton. Nobody has any idea what his raw data was, and none of his statistics are consistent with what independent peer reviewed research shows. He has no qualifications to do scientific research into dog behavior.

The CDC, on the other hand, ceased tracking dog bites by breed/type in the late 1990s, as it was their determination that such studies do "not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy making decisions related to the topic....There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are likely to bite or kill." Makes a little sense; if you don't know the total number of dogs in a breed, you can't create a percentage of the number of dog bites per breed.
 
2013-08-21 07:29:57 PM
Over the past ten years all this happened: My favorite neighbor was badly mauled by a Rottweiler that ripped loose from another neighbor. I was badly bit in the calf by a husky at the dog park. My 60-pound dog was attacked and had part of her ear bitten off by a German Shepard. My 6 1/2-foot-tall husband was knocked to to ground and bitten by an Akita. And lastly, my brother-in-law's neighbor, a cute sweet little girl, was killed by a family pit bull last year in Victoria, TX.

Sometimes stereotypes are true, folks.
 
2013-08-21 07:33:34 PM
Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.

Pit bulls do not have locking jaws. They have the exact same jaw structure as every other breed of dog. If they had a different jaw structure, they wouldn't be dogs. They would be a different species.

And no, they don't have particularly strong jaws either. Jaw strength is a function of the size of the jaw. A pit bull has the same jaw strength as any other dog of the same size. In fact, there's evidence that they have less jaw strength than German Shepherds or Rottweilers.
 
2013-08-21 07:39:17 PM

hammettman: My single biggest problem with dog owners are people who let their dogs shiat on my property and don't clean it up.  This is more of a nuisance than a danger.

The only other problem I have are dog owners who irresponsibly claim that their dogs are not a danger to other pets and people, when in fact, multiple studies show that they are.  WTF is with this denial?  "Abstract: Objective: Maiming and death due to dog bites are uncommon but preventable tragedies. We postulated that patients admitted to a level I trauma center with dog bites would have severe injuries and that the gravest injuries would be those caused by pit bulls.


Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. [citation]

 I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous.  And spay/neuter your dog.  Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.


Since when are emergency room personnel able to identify a dog's breed when they haven't even seen the dog? It's nearly impossible to identify a dog's breed by sight. Shelter workers can't do it. So how do people who people who don't work with dogs do it without even seeing the dog?
 
2013-08-21 07:43:00 PM
hammettman: OK, you're trolling.  I've been bit and I'm done here.

I was bitten by a Fox Terrier. Therefore, Fox Terriers are dangerous and should be banned. Anyone who disagrees is trolling. I'm done here.
 
2013-08-21 07:47:43 PM
spidermilk: No offense to you, because a lot of chihuahuas are completely out of control, but I never really can believe vets on their opinion of what dogs are nice or not. Most dogs see the vet when they are in pain (ear infection for example) or the vet gives them shots, draws blood, etc. (I can get my dog used to normal exams, but I'm not giving him dummy shots so he gets used to it!) So some dogs have extreme vet fear.

If shots really freak out your dog, you can desensitize him by giving him dummy shots with a retractable pen while also giving him high-value treats. It's not a perfect method and an actual shot still hurts, but it can help him to be more calm when getting a shot.
 
2013-08-21 07:51:13 PM

1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.


I predict it will be the Belgian Malinois.
 
2013-08-21 08:05:11 PM

hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.


Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

For example, my parent's Boston Terriers have been mistaken for pit bulls:
upload.wikimedia.org
For scale: Breed standards are 10-25 pounds

upload.wikimedia.org
American Pit Bull Terrier, 30-65 pounds.

Unfixed male is a bigger indicator of attack, especially against children, than breed, as is criminal background for the owner.  Violent owners tend to have violent dogs.
 
2013-08-21 08:09:16 PM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.


No.  No, they don't.

/myth
 
2013-08-21 08:14:28 PM

Phins: hammettman: My single biggest problem with dog owners are people who let their dogs shiat on my property and don't clean it up.  This is more of a nuisance than a danger.

The only other problem I have are dog owners who irresponsibly claim that their dogs are not a danger to other pets and people, when in fact, multiple studies show that they are.  WTF is with this denial?  "Abstract: Objective: Maiming and death due to dog bites are uncommon but preventable tragedies. We postulated that patients admitted to a level I trauma center with dog bites would have severe injuries and that the gravest injuries would be those caused by pit bulls.


Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. [citation]

 I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous.  And spay/neuter your dog.  Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Since when are emergency room personnel able to identify a dog's breed when they haven't even seen the dog? It's nearly impossible to identify a dog's breed by sight. Shelter workers can't do it. So how do people who people who don't work with dogs do it without even seeing the dog?


So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs?  Perhaps you also dispute most major insurance companies, who will not underwrite a homeowner policy if a pit bull is on the property.  Peruse Wikipedia, which has compiled a yearly list of dog attacks, which this year lists 15 of the 18 fatalities due to pit bulls.  This list is comprised of newspaper reports, from across the country.  So, what, is it the "liberal media" that can't be trusted defense?

I really have nothing against the animals known as pit bulls.  I am actually friends with a few of these dogs.  My problem lies with people, who against all order of evidence, both documented and heresay, insist on denying that these powerful animals can be a hazard and by their actions place other people and other animals in danger.
 
2013-08-21 08:32:22 PM

Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.


The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.
 
2013-08-21 08:35:25 PM

r1niceboy: 1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.

They're less likely to get into a spontaneous fight with another dog than a Malamute or husky. Those scrap for dominance pretty regularly. They're less likely to bite than a chihuahua, and less stubborn in letting go than a bulldog. It's just they have enough of all the tendencies to make for a dog that, once in a fight, will do a lot of damage to the other small creature it's attacking.


you just reminded me of the peanuts animation (forget the title off the top of my head) where snoopy becomes a sled dog...  been years since i've even randomly thought of that.  thanks.  :)
 
2013-08-21 08:55:19 PM

spidermilk: letrole: Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.

Wow damn, you got more copy/paste material. I'm so impressed. Just don't get confused and post this instead of the 'if a man gets turned on at the site of a man or a man gets turned on at the site of a woman bla bla bla' thing in the gay rights threads.


well, it matters if the pit bull is male or female...
 
2013-08-21 09:08:49 PM
No dog breed is naturally violent towards people, though some have been bred with a high prey drive toward small animals (sight hounds, terrier, malamutes, huskies). No, the problem is violent owners that viciously abuse the animals until they die or turn violent. The answer is to put down the violent owners.
 
2013-08-21 09:40:12 PM

hammettman: Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.


The problem with any study of dog bites by breed is that ignore the human and environmental factors. Dog bites are usually a combination of factors. Read The Problem With Dog Bite Studies from the National Canine Research Center.

Thanks to all of the inaccurate reporting, pit bulls have become very attractive to bad owners.

It is important to look at the underlying factors of an attack. The media repeatedly fails to do so. Often, the owner describes an attack as unprovoked, but you read further, and the reporter describes the home as having "guard dog" signs.
Dogs maintained outside the home (on chains, in kennels or in yards) and/or dogs obtained for negative functions (guarding, fighting, protection, breeding for financial gain) are not family pets; they are what are sometimes referred to as "resident dogs." Acknowledging the environment in which they live and the function for which they are maintained is vital to understanding their behavior and, when the situation arises, their aggression. Resident dogs cannot be expected to exhibit the same behaviors and level of sociability as family dogs. The simple reason why we see pit bulls involved in more attacks now (though not nearly as many as the media would have one believe) is there are more of them being kept as "resident dogs" vs. family pets.

To give a statistic, 75% of Austin's tethering calls are related to pit bulls, and 22% of its stray dog calls are related to pit bulls. (Source: City of Austin, 2008). The higher the abuse of a particular breed of dog, the more likely it is going to exhibit aggression. Studies have found that a tethered dog is 2.8 times more likely to attack. So, it is reasonable to presume that the breed suffering the most abuse will exhibit the most problems. This historically correlates with breeds that have suffered abuse (i.e., been used as "resident dogs") in the past, such as Rottweilers in the 90s, Dobermans in the 80s, and German Shepherds in the 70s. Correspondingly, historically, during periods of time when pit bulls were popular family pets, and were not being used in record numbers as "resident dogs," their attack statistics were extremely low.
 
2013-08-21 11:52:32 PM

r1niceboy: To responsible owners, maybe. It's the ones that weren't interviewed, the ones used to make the owners look like they have tough dogs, that are the aggressive ones. I had a Staffordshire Bull terrier years back, and it was the most fawning thing you'll ever see, but there was the Engage Satan switch in its head. It always flipped when it saw a rabbit or a squirrel. It took many years of work to negate those tendencies. Some dogs are more prone to aggression though, anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.


Yeah, that's my experience.  They're fantastic dogs, but you need to be a responsible owner and you need to be aware of what they can do.  I had my Buster for years, sweetest dog in the world but in certain situations he could and he absolutely would start wrecking shiat.  I saw it as my job to keep him out of those situations.
 
2013-08-21 11:55:42 PM
Also, as much as I appreciate the sentiment behind the photos, I just wish everybody would stop trying to make their pits look all sweet, fluffy and innocent.  They may actually BE sweet and innocent, but they look like what they were born to be:  Muscle bound terminators.  All the bunny ears in the world won't hide it.
 
2013-08-22 12:06:11 AM

Phins: 1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.

I predict it will be the Belgian Malinois.


God help us all if it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU Would be a hundred times worse than bully breeds.
 
2013-08-22 02:50:23 AM

Phins: hammettman: Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.

The problem with any study of dog bites by breed is that ignore the human and environmental factors. Dog bites are usually a combination of factors. Read The Problem With Dog Bite Studies from the National Canine Research Center.

Thanks to all of the inaccurate reporting, pit bulls have become very attractive to bad owners.

It is important to look at the underlying factors of an attack. The media repeatedly fails to do so. Often, the owner describes an attack as unprovoked, but you read further, and the reporter describes the home as having "guard dog" signs.
Dogs maintained outside the home (on chains, in kennels or in yards) and/or dogs obtained for negative functions (guarding, fighting, protection, breeding for financial gain) are not family pets; they are what are sometimes referred to as "resident dogs." Acknowledging the environment in which they li ...


My suspicion is that some breeds are macho and attract a higher quotient of assholes.
 
2013-08-22 05:35:08 AM
This pix has nothing to do with TFA or comments.
Just sharing.

i280.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-22 08:25:22 AM
Firethorn:

*Under pit bull definitions, all Labradors would be one breed, not separated into black, yellow, and chocolate.

*confused look*

All Labradors are one breed.  The separate colors are not defined as separate breeds.  Any color labrador can have any of the three of the colors in their offspring, in a single litter, regardless of the color of the parents, although I believe black is the dominant color gene.  A lot of AKC defined breeds have defined coat color standards.
 
2013-08-22 08:28:16 AM
Elsie the tired mutt-

lh4.googleusercontent.com

She leads a rough life.
 
2013-08-22 08:31:58 AM

hammettman: So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs


No, but I disagree with your seeming suggestion that I should give a rat's ass about this at all considering that the probability of dying from ANY dog attack is roughly equivalent to the probability of getting killed by a lightning strike.

You can drone on and on about the fact that pit bulls are more dangerous if there's an attack but I'm just going to keep thinking you're terrible at math since you keep ignoring the fact that the probability of an attack happening in the first place is very, very low.
 
2013-08-22 08:54:29 AM

skozlaw: hammettman: So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs

No, but I disagree with your seeming suggestion that I should give a rat's ass about this at all considering that the probability of dying from ANY dog attack is roughly equivalent to the probability of getting killed by a lightning strike.

You can drone on and on about the fact that pit bulls are more dangerous if there's an attack but I'm just going to keep thinking you're terrible at math since you keep ignoring the fact that the probability of an attack happening in the first place is very, very low.


You're missing the point entirely.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:40 PM

hammettman: You're missing the point entirely.


Coming from a guy who believes raw statistics tell the whole story.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:53 PM

Hardy-r-r: This pix has nothing to do with TFA or comments.
Just sharing.

[i280.photobucket.com image 268x188]


Boobies belong in every thread, IMHO.
 
2013-08-22 04:44:38 PM

hammettman:  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.

Phin put it very much better than I did as well.  Bad owners are selecting Pit Bulls, like they targeted other breeds in the past, and the effects show.

dig420: Also, as much as I appreciate the sentiment behind the photos, I just wish everybody would stop trying to make their pits look all sweet, fluffy and innocent.  They may actually BE sweet and innocent, but they look like what they were born to be:  Muscle bound terminators.  All the bunny ears in the world won't hide it.


Muscle bound terminator, dog form:
scientopia.orgnetstorage.discovery.com
Note:  Not a pit bull.
 
2013-08-22 06:56:21 PM
In the 60's the bad dogs were usually German Shepards. There were several tough guys who had theirs chained in their yard, and these dogs went berserk when anyone walked by.

In the 70's it was Dorbermans. Pretty much the same scenario, all the touch guys got them, and bragged about how tough and mean their dog was.

In the 80's and part of the 90's it was Rottweilers. You wanted to be the macho guy you had a Rottie, and you made sure he acted like a rabid wolf anytime a person or another dog was in view.

Now it's Pit bulls. Once again, the meaner you can make it the BAAAAAAAADER you are.

There is probably already a new 'MEAN DOG' breed. It will be a larger dog, and like any other dog, if you mistreat it, it will be mean. And then we can recycle all the stories again about how that breed is unfit and just born evil. Just like we did with German Shepards, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and Pit Bulls.

America's Babysitter

I myself do not own, nor have I ever owned, a pit bull. I also do not have family or friends who own one. But I knew people who owned each of the earlier 'unfit' dogs, some being good owners with good dogs, and some who wanted a mean dog because it was cool. I never knew a good owner who had a bad dog.
 
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