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(Broward/Palm Beach New Times)   Headline: "Pit bulls much less aggressive than other breeds." Article: "to their owners"   (blogs.browardpalmbeach.com) divider line 131
    More: Unlikely  
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2133 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 1:08 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



131 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-21 09:27:39 AM  
Wow. Way to cherry pick a point of view from an article there subby. Lets look at the very next sentence following the one you chose for your headline: "And the breed has displayed below-average levels of aggression when encountering strangers."
 
2013-08-21 01:12:17 PM  
I work in installation and go to a lot of people's homes, so I encounter pitbulls a lot here in southern California. Besides most of them being huge with the head of a Tyrannosaurus, they've never lunged at me or tried to attack me. But they can bark the sound of the end times if I'm on the other side of the fence.

Chihuahuas on the other hand... Vicious little monsters.
 
2013-08-21 01:12:22 PM  
Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.
 
2013-08-21 01:12:38 PM  

Steve Zodiac: Wow. Way to cherry pick a point of view from an article there subby. Lets look at the very next sentence following the one you chose for your headline: "And the breed has displayed below-average levels of aggression when encountering strangers."


Hypocrisy: An anti-pitbull accusing a pro-pitbull article of cherry-picking when they themselves just did it.
 
2013-08-21 01:12:48 PM  
What a pitbull actually looks like:
www.ywgrossman.com
 
2013-08-21 01:12:56 PM  
 
2013-08-21 01:13:37 PM  
More bad stats.  There are no statistics that one breed bites more, but let me reference some statistics anyway.

Train your dog properly, the end.
 
2013-08-21 01:14:29 PM  
And dachshunds are the most aggressive against strangers _and_ their owners...

I hate the bastards.

Dachs = german for badger
Hund = german for dog

You can understand where i'm coming from.
 
2013-08-21 01:14:38 PM  
I owned an English Bull Terrier for nearly 15 years. He didn't start fights, but he damn well finished them. The context is that dickless, cowardly owners would sic their dogs on him when he was on leash (prior to leash laws here). I did not actually enjoy watching him fight, but he was very good at it.

I enjoyed my interactions with the owners, however. Don't bring a human to a dog fight.
 
2013-08-21 01:15:18 PM  
Friendly pit bull thread!

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-21 01:15:51 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-pit-bull-kills-pregnant-woman-pacifica-c a lifornia/story?id=14289961


This is why you neuter your animals.
 
2013-08-21 01:15:51 PM  
Dale!
 
2013-08-21 01:16:43 PM  

Badgers: And dachshunds are the most aggressive against strangers _and_ their owners...

I hate the bastards.

Dachs = german for badger
Hund = german for dog

You can understand where i'm coming from.


Vets call them carpet sharks.
 
2013-08-21 01:16:55 PM  
Because years of selective breeding to eliminate aggressive behaviour have made them gentle. Iike retrievers loving the water and fetching
 
2013-08-21 01:18:25 PM  

mbillips: Friendly pit bull thread!

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x272]


where's the peanut butter??
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:20:04 PM  
I can't believe Farkers don't a level head about Pit bulls.  They're so steady and logical about everything else...
 
2013-08-21 01:21:07 PM  

johnny_vegas: mbillips: Friendly pit bull thread!

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x272]

where's the peanut butter??


Oh, you know.

/yes you do
//creamy
 
2013-08-21 01:21:36 PM  
abcnewsradioonline.com

Now this thread is at 100%!
 
2013-08-21 01:21:36 PM  
Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]
 
2013-08-21 01:22:50 PM  
There is a pit bull who roams the base area at Jackson Hole and she is one of the sweetest, most loyal dogs I have ever met. Her hippie mom is pretty cute too.
 
2013-08-21 01:22:50 PM  
But that still proves a point Subby. They are aggressive only to those they are trained to be aggressive towards. Raise a pitbull as a housepet away from any other dog trained for security (this is important, dogs are pack animals and can absorb aggressive behavior from other canine members of a household) and they are sweet as hell. They tend to be very laid back animals by nature.
 
2013-08-21 01:23:37 PM  

Badgers: And dachshunds are the most aggressive against strangers _and_ their owners...

I hate the bastards.

Dachs = german for badger
Hund = german for dog

You can understand where i'm coming from.


My little brother has 5 of the things.  As puppies they are as cute and friendly as you could want.  Sometime after turning 2 though...something changes.  But each and every one of them turned into a sneaky, vicious calf-biter. (His always attack from behind.  Don't know if that is true for the breed or just his dogs)

At a family BBQ last summer one of his Dachshunds bit my German Shepherd on the a$$.  He turned around and b**ch-slapped that thing clear off the deck.
 
2013-08-21 01:23:41 PM  
If you haven't heard it, Bill Burr's bit on owning a pit bull is hilarious (language is NSFW)
 
2013-08-21 01:24:22 PM  
So you're telling me a breed that was bred for strength, power, agression, and loyalty exhibits those traits?? PSSHAAWW
 
2013-08-21 01:24:45 PM  

Ker_Thwap: More bad stats.  There are no statistics that one breed bites more, but let me reference some statistics anyway.

Train your dog properly, the end.


you can train dogs these days?  I thought you just locked them in too small a space and fed them sometimes.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:32 PM  
The only kind of people who like pure breed pit bulls are gangsta, ghetto, bad bad people.  They want a weapon.  Fark them and their shiat dog.

Watered down pits like a pit lab combo make wonderful pets.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:41 PM  
To responsible owners, maybe. It's the ones that weren't interviewed, the ones used to make the owners look like they have tough dogs, that are the aggressive ones. I had a Staffordshire Bull terrier years back, and it was the most fawning thing you'll ever see, but there was the Engage Satan switch in its head. It always flipped when it saw a rabbit or a squirrel. It took many years of work to negate those tendencies. Some dogs are more prone to aggression though, anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.
 
2013-08-21 01:26:47 PM  

hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."


The only takeaway from that line is that there is no reason to worry about spontaneous dog attacks at all no matter the breed... unless non-fatal injuries are very high and severe or something, anyway...
 
2013-08-21 01:28:20 PM  
Crappy owners raise bad dogs. Large breed or "dangerous" breed dogs raised well are indistinguishable from your lab or retriever. Tiny dogs are known to be vicious or loud little things because the owner is less bothered to curb bad behaviour when their dog is the size of a shoe.

// has a king shepherd
 
2013-08-21 01:28:42 PM  

hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]


also from your cited article:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.
 
2013-08-21 01:29:18 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.


Yeah I'd be a lot more worried in the event one of these dogs does snap for whatever reason and attacks. A dachshund? You can kick it down the street if it acts like an asshole.
 
2013-08-21 01:29:35 PM  

JerkyMeat: The only kind of people who like pure breed pit bulls are gangsta, ghetto, bad bad people.


you are such a cute, illiterate racist
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:29:54 PM  

skozlaw: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."

The only takeaway from that line is that there is no reason to worry about spontaneous dog attacks at all no matter the breed... unless non-fatal injuries are very high and severe or something, anyway...


The day of the year is 233.

So, the rate of dog attack deaths is about .06 per day.  Or about .0557 pit bull attack deaths per day.

Yikes... I better buy some insurance.
 
2013-08-21 01:30:00 PM  
Pit bulls are wonderful dogs until something makes them "snap".
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 01:30:34 PM  

d23: skozlaw: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."

The only takeaway from that line is that there is no reason to worry about spontaneous dog attacks at all no matter the breed... unless non-fatal injuries are very high and severe or something, anyway...

The day of the year is 233.

So, the rate of dog attack deaths is about .06 per day.  Or about .0557 pit bull attack deaths per day.

Yikes... I better buy some insurance.


I missed the actual day here.. but you get the idea.
 
2013-08-21 01:30:40 PM  

Digitalstrange: But that still proves a point Subby. They are aggressive only to those they are trained to be aggressive towards. Raise a pitbull as a housepet away from any other dog trained for security (this is important, dogs are pack animals and can absorb aggressive behavior from other canine members of a household) and they are sweet as hell. They tend to be very laid back animals by nature.


I have a Pit mix, and he is not at all aggressive toward people. On the contrary, he thinks people are the most awesome thing ever, and come to my house solely to see him and scratch his belly. On the rare occasion when he has not fallen instantly in love with a stranger, his immediate (and so far only) reaction is to stand between me and the person he doesn't like, and watch them. That's it. No growling, no barking, no baring of teeth. Just passive protection. Every time that has happened, the person on the receiving end of his stare has been smart enough to give him his space. But in the 11 years I've had him, that's happened maybe 5 times, and they were always strangers that came to the door wanting something.

Where I do have problems with him is with other dogs, and small animals. He's a great ratter, and he hates other male dogs with a fiery passion. Part of that is breed, part of it is his past (he was nearly killed by a pack of older male dogs when he was a puppy). So when he's around other animals, I watch him like a hawk.

Pits are awesome dogs, and I would have another mix or full blood in a heartbeat. But they require a LOT of attention and training and structure. One of the biggest mistakes people make is having more than one of them at time. As the only Pit in the household, with an owner who is aware of their needs, you won't find a sweeter, more affectionate, more loyal dog anywhere.
 
2013-08-21 01:30:49 PM  
Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.
 
2013-08-21 01:33:16 PM  
The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?
 
2013-08-21 01:33:31 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.


Another bullshiat pit bull rumor. Pit bulls don't have special jaw bones.
 
2013-08-21 01:33:35 PM  

Vectron: Pit bulls are wonderful dogs until something makes them "snap".


existential angst?
 
2013-08-21 01:35:22 PM  
Several of my neighbors have pit bulls that they take for walks, and the No. 1 danger from them is being love-mauled. I have yet to meet a skitty pit bull that had a normal owner. The dangerous ones are made that way by bad people.

www.swaylove.org
 
2013-08-21 01:36:12 PM  
farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2013-08-21 01:37:00 PM  
Bob Doggs, my son's rescue pit - nicest, sweetest, friendliest dog evar... until he ate my geriatric ridgeback mix... I thought all the pit rhetoric was BS until I had to clean the blood off the walls and ceiling.... Maybe not agressive to people, but show him a weak animal and dayum!  Glad it wasn't a little kid or handicapped person though.
 
2013-08-21 01:37:12 PM  
Ker_Thwap:


Train your dog properly, the end.

THISTHISTHISTHIS

I like pit bulls, but even if they're not specifically trained to attack they can still be aggressive if they get over-excited and aren't trained to control themselves.  One such doggy almost took my boy's leg off, even though they were just playing.

/owners decided it was "too expensive" to train the dog, even after she bit my kid
//dog went on to bite an even littler kid a few days later
///dog's dead, owners are in court
 
2013-08-21 01:37:37 PM  

Broom: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.

Another bullshiat pit bull rumor. Pit bulls don't have special jaw bones.


Don't they have an extra muscle in their leg that lets them jump higher though? And their vaginas go sideways, right?
 
2013-08-21 01:37:42 PM  

ThatBillmanGuy: I work in installation and go to a lot of people's homes, so I encounter pitbulls a lot here in southern California. Besides most of them being huge with the head of a Tyrannosaurus, they've never lunged at me or tried to attack me. But they can bark the sound of the end times if I'm on the other side of the fence.

Chihuahuas on the other hand... Vicious little monsters.


Comparing a pit bull to a Chihuahua is like comparing a hand grenade to a Nerf gun. The odds of getting shot with a Nerf gun in your lifetime are significantly higher, but the odds of surviving one or the other doesn't even merit comparison. The problem with pit bulls has never been about how often they bite but what happens when they do. The answer seems pretty simple to me: your dog attacks someone, you go to prison for whatever the damage is. If your pit bull attacks someone, you go to prison for murder. If my Chihuahua attacks someone, I go to prison for whatever the law is against failed attempts to break skin.
 
2013-08-21 01:38:38 PM  

mbillips: Friendly pit bull thread!

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x272]


Can I lick her, too?

Anyway, I've met quite a few pit bulls in my day and, without exception, the first thing they wanted to do upon meeting me was show off their favorite toys.  Several then ran around in circles in the yard to show me how fast they were.  One had a habit of [very gingerly] pulling on pant legs to take people out to the yard to play.  If they didn't follow her, she'd go flat with devastation.  Like a whining bear skin rug with twitchy eyebrows.  Then the other dog would come over and lick her face until she could pull herself together.
 
2013-08-21 01:39:26 PM  

mbillips: Several of my neighbors have pit bulls that they take for walks, and the No. 1 danger from them is being love-mauled. I have yet to meet a skitty pit bull that had a normal owner. The dangerous ones are made that way by bad people.


That dog has some awesome eyebrows.
 
2013-08-21 01:40:13 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-pit-bull-kills-pregnant-woman-pacifica-c a lifornia/story?id=14289961


Look how wrong you are. She actually dies from a head wound falling off a ladder. But nice attempt at the fear mongering.
 
2013-08-21 01:41:06 PM  
Dog bites by breed:
Pit Bulls are not at the top...Cocker Spaniels are actually the dog most likely to bite you. And, one must keep in mind that there are 26 breeds of dog commonly mistaken for "Pit Bulls", which means that the actual number listed as pit bite statistics is likely much lower when considering the dog in question is likely NOT an actual APBT. According to these statistics, Pit Bull type dogs and Rottweilers do the most damage when they do bite, which is understandable, considering their size and strength.
 
2013-08-21 01:41:36 PM  

johnny_vegas: hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]

also from your cited article:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.


I'm a gambler, but 13 out of 14 are not odds that make me comfortable.  These are just the fatalities.  Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

/disclosure: my daughter was bitten by a pit.  I probably can not be convinced to see them as anything but dangerous.
 
2013-08-21 01:42:07 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.


They're less likely to get into a spontaneous fight with another dog than a Malamute or husky. Those scrap for dominance pretty regularly. They're less likely to bite than a chihuahua, and less stubborn in letting go than a bulldog. It's just they have enough of all the tendencies to make for a dog that, once in a fight, will do a lot of damage to the other small creature it's attacking.
 
2013-08-21 01:42:29 PM  
Go eat a bag of dicks subby.
 
2013-08-21 01:44:04 PM  

SmackLT: If you haven't heard it, Bill Burr's bit on owning a pit bull is hilarious (language is NSFW)


That was cute.

Got two pitts.  Both love the shiat out of strangers.  One tries to kill every squirrel or bird he sees, the other hates other dogs.  But they loooooove people.

/pitts are the worst guard dogs on earth.
 
2013-08-21 01:44:40 PM  

Broom: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.

Another bullshiat pit bull rumor. Pit bulls don't have special jaw bones.


They do in that they're strong as fark.  It's true of terriers in general.  I had to get a bird away from my Jack Russel a few weeks ago and that little guys jaw was not budging.
 
2013-08-21 01:44:59 PM  
1000 Ways to Dye:
Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Somehow this brings to mind the Dr. Evil of dogs (a dachshund, of course - murderous little brutes, apparently) plotting in his lair. "Muahahaha... Now that their protective guardian angels are gone, we can bite the humans all we want. Go forth, my legions! Go forth!"
 
2013-08-21 01:45:15 PM  

hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.


That is a lot more salient point than the number of fatalities IMHO
 
2013-08-21 01:45:24 PM  

hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]


Like most Fark threads, nobody will pay attention to your facts and the ones that do will dispute them anyway.

*scans thread*

Called it.
 
2013-08-21 01:45:43 PM  
This whole argument is stupid. Pit bulls (which isn't even a breed but whatever) are in a bad situation because a bunch of dumb as dirt people have decided they are the dog of the moment. So all these people buy them and breed them and intend to make a ton of money breeding dogs. These people are idiots and know nothing about dogs. They think that if their dog growls at you when you approach her crate she is great breeding stock (nothing could be further from the truth).

The same exact thing happened to German Shepherds.

Dogs bred to work or guard/protect are genetically encouraged to KEEP TRYING and NOT BACK DOWN. While some dogs will hide under a bed when scared, these dogs will fight back. When you combine those traits with a big dog, VERY, VERY BAD BREEDING (the main culprit), and TERRIBLE OWNERS you get a disaster and a bunch of fear-aggressive dogs.

IF you get an American Pit Bull Terrier from a real breeder who is breeding confident working dogs or confident, friendly family dogs you aren't going to have a dog that attacks someone (unless their family member was in TRUE danger or being attacked). If you get your "Pit Bull" from a guy who thinks he'll get rich breeding them then who knows what you're getting.You might get the gentlest creature in the world, but more likely you'll get a dog who is incredibly fearful of things he should never be fearful of and all the training in the world cannot fix it.

/have a German Shepherd, almost killed the last person who told me I could 'make a lot of money breeding him'
//FYI, an untitled male stud dog isn't going to make shiat for money and it is farking deplorable to breed dogs who are going to end up untrained and homeless
 
2013-08-21 01:46:05 PM  

OptimusMatrix: Look how wrong you are. She actually dies from a head wound falling off a ladder. But nice attempt at the fear mongering.


wat? Are you drunk, high or insane?

HotWingConspiracy: http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-pit-bull-kills-pregnant-woman-pacifica-c a lifornia/story?id=14289961


Not sure what your point is. Nobody is denying that sometimes pets attack and kill people.
 
2013-08-21 01:48:24 PM  

69gnarkill69: hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]

Like most Fark threads, nobody will pay attention to your facts and the ones that do will dispute them anyway.

*scans thread*

Called it.


a1.phobos.apple.com
 
2013-08-21 01:49:18 PM  

rikerdude: The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?


A chihuahua would if they could. Those dogs are, by far, the most likely to snap at a person. I love all dogs, but those are so likely to be babied because of their size, and their aggression and possessiveness not corrected.
 
2013-08-21 01:50:23 PM  

hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.


So what?

You guys like to fling those contextless statistics like monkeys throwing poo but the reality is that when you put all the numbers together your odds of being bit by a dog of ANY breed are very low and your odds of being killed by a dog of ANY breed are extremely low.

When you count EVERY single attack together and the odds are still poor that you'll be a victim how do you justify narrowing the list even further and then screeching about it?
I just don't see how this isn't one of those things where people are going out of their way to wring their hands over something stupid. If your neighbor owns a gun and a pit bull you're more likely to get shot than bit.

And god help you if he owns a car.
 
2013-08-21 01:51:02 PM  

johnny_vegas: hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

That is a lot more salient point than the number of fatalities IMHO


Half of reported dog bites. Chihuahuas will nip more, but no-one reports the dog.
 
2013-08-21 01:54:36 PM  
I completely agree that a bad owner can make ANY dog into a bad dog.

I also believe that bad breeding (bad genes) can make any dog into a bad dog, no matter *what* the owner/trainer does. Depending on the genes, training can make most dogs manageable.

When dogs bite you when you turn your back- they are fear aggressive. They are so afraid of you that they wait until you are retreating to attack and hope that that will keep you away for good. This is really serious because without counter-conditioning the dog's fear could get worse and worse (for example if people keep petting it when it is cowering in fear) until the dog seriously hurts someone. Guy who's brother's dogs do this- I feel bad for those poor dogs.

Ankle-biters are so bad because people *always* ignore their body language and other signs that they are afraid. A lot of these dogs just want to run and hide or go where they feel safe and then their owners drag them around to other, bigger dogs and people who the dog doesn't want to be approached by. This happens again and again and again until the dog is aggressive to these dogs and people and bites them. If the owner had paid any attention to their dog in the first place they could have completely avoided this whole situation.

Long story short, if your dog is afraid of people and growls, freezes, hides, barks, snaps, etc. when they approach- don't tell him to shut up and ignore him. Keep people the fark away from him and find an certified dog behaviourist and train, train, train your dog. He might not *ever* be a dog who loves people, big dogs, kids, but if you at least LISTEN TO HIM you can avoid having a dog that bites people and is completely unhappy.
 
2013-08-21 01:55:02 PM  

r1niceboy: johnny_vegas: hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

That is a lot more salient point than the number of fatalities IMHO

Half of reported dog bites. Chihuahuas will nip more, but no-one reports the dog.


and its a third not half.  Google works.
 
2013-08-21 01:55:25 PM  

r1niceboy: rikerdude: The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?

A chihuahua would if they could. Those dogs are, by far, the most likely to snap at a person. I love all dogs, but those are so likely to be babied because of their size, and their aggression and possessiveness not corrected.


I used to work for a vet, and I learned to hate chihuahuas once they were over 6 months old. Before that they were usually tiny and terrified and sweet, but then it was like a switch flipped in them. But then I met some chihuahuas who were owned by people who actually trained them and disciplined them, and took it as seriously as if the chihuahuas were much bigger, more dangerous dogs. Those are some of the sweetest, most obedient, friendly dogs I've ever seen. Within a few hours of meeting them, I had their unneutered male chihuahua belly up in my lap, and he was sound asleep. The female only wanted to be held and cuddled, she didn't care if she knew you or not. So, just like big dogs, the little ones are a reflection of their owners.
 
2013-08-21 01:58:21 PM  

skozlaw: hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

So what?

You guys like to fling those contextless statistics like monkeys throwing poo but the reality is that when you put all the numbers together your odds of being bit by a dog of ANY breed are very low and your odds of being killed by a dog of ANY breed are extremely low.

When you count EVERY single attack together and the odds are still poor that you'll be a victim how do you justify narrowing the list even further and then screeching about it?
I just don't see how this isn't one of those things where people are going out of their way to wring their hands over something stupid. If your neighbor owns a gun and a pit bull you're more likely to get shot than bit.

And god help you if he owns a car.


hammettman - Statistics

skozlaw - so what? I'll believe what I want to believe.

Lulz!
 
2013-08-21 01:59:23 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.


You have to be more careful with your sarcasm. Some people are gullible enough to actually believe stupid old wives tales like "pit bull lockjaw".
 
2013-08-21 02:00:32 PM  

elguerodiablo: Broom: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.

Another bullshiat pit bull rumor. Pit bulls don't have special jaw bones.

They do in that they're strong as fark.  It's true of terriers in general.  I had to get a bird away from my Jack Russel a few weeks ago and that little guys jaw was not budging.


Oh, I certainly agree that many dogs - especially of certain breeds - have a strong clamp-on-and-hold instinct. It's how dachsunds survive the ordeal of pulling a badger from its hole - if they let go of the face at any moment, they'll be open to attack.

But a large number of people actually believe there's something different about pit bull jaws, when it's their brains that create the effect.
 
2013-08-21 02:01:01 PM  

elguerodiablo: r1niceboy: johnny_vegas: hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

That is a lot more salient point than the number of fatalities IMHO

Half of reported dog bites. Chihuahuas will nip more, but no-one reports the dog.

and its a third not half.  Google works.

 
2013-08-21 02:02:00 PM  

mbillips: Badgers: And dachshunds are the most aggressive against strangers _and_ their owners...

I hate the bastards.

Dachs = german for badger
Hund = german for dog

You can understand where i'm coming from.

Vets call them carpet sharks.


The local animal shelter does dachshund races at the local hockey rink every February for charity.  People bring their dogs, they race across the rink, winner gets a prize. I've worked this event 2 years in a row, learning that 1) Dachshunds are effing hilarious when running on ice, and 2) Backstage in the waiting room they are vicious little buggers.

Google ARL Doxie Dash if you're interested - here's an example:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgcCfxMuvwU">http://www.youtube.com/wa tch?v=OgcCfxMuvwU  I think this video even has the one that chased the mascot around the rink for a bit. Hoo boy was that dog's owner cussing the air blue.
 
2013-08-21 02:02:30 PM  

FarFarAway: r1niceboy: rikerdude: The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?

A chihuahua would if they could. Those dogs are, by far, the most likely to snap at a person. I love all dogs, but those are so likely to be babied because of their size, and their aggression and possessiveness not corrected.

I used to work for a vet, and I learned to hate chihuahuas once they were over 6 months old. Before that they were usually tiny and terrified and sweet, but then it was like a switch flipped in them. But then I met some chihuahuas who were owned by people who actually trained them and disciplined them, and took it as seriously as if the chihuahuas were much bigger, more dangerous dogs. Those are some of the sweetest, most obedient, friendly dogs I've ever seen. Within a few hours of meeting them, I had their unneutered male chihuahua belly up in my lap, and he was sound asleep. The female only wanted to be held and cuddled, she didn't care if she knew you or not. So, just like big dogs, the little ones are a reflection of their owners.


No offense to you, because a lot of chihuahuas are completely out of control, but I never really can believe vets on their opinion of what dogs are nice or not. Most dogs see the vet when they are in pain (ear infection for example) or the vet gives them shots, draws blood, etc. (I can get my dog used to normal exams, but I'm not giving him dummy shots so he gets used to it!) So some dogs have extreme vet fear.
 
2013-08-21 02:03:08 PM  
www.nokilldelaware.org
 
2013-08-21 02:04:41 PM  
Anyone mention how many people were killed by pitbulls in 2013 already? check
owners of pits who say their dogs would never hurt a fly? check

thread is over.
 
2013-08-21 02:09:29 PM  

spidermilk: FarFarAway: r1niceboy: rikerdude: The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?

A chihuahua would if they could. Those dogs are, by far, the most likely to snap at a person. I love all dogs, but those are so likely to be babied because of their size, and their aggression and possessiveness not corrected.

I used to work for a vet, and I learned to hate chihuahuas once they were over 6 months old. Before that they were usually tiny and terrified and sweet, but then it was like a switch flipped in them. But then I met some chihuahuas who were owned by people who actually trained them and disciplined them, and took it as seriously as if the chihuahuas were much bigger, more dangerous dogs. Those are some of the sweetest, most obedient, friendly dogs I've ever seen. Within a few hours of meeting them, I had their unneutered male chihuahua belly up in my lap, and he was sound asleep. The female only wanted to be held and cuddled, she didn't care if she knew you or not. So, just like big dogs, the little ones are a reflection of their owners.

No offense to you, because a lot of chihuahuas are completely out of control, but I never really can believe vets on their opinion of what dogs are nice or not. Most dogs see the vet when they are in pain (ear infection for example) or the vet gives them shots, draws blood, etc. (I can get my dog used to normal exams, but I'm not giving him dummy shots so he gets used to it!) So some dogs have extreme vet fear.


That's true, but it wouldn't explain why the puppies that were sweet as could be, even when they were frightened, at 8 weeks and 12 weeks and everything up to 6-7 months (before they were fixed, too) would suddenly decide to turn and be nasty. It happened every time. When they were tiny you could cuddle them and play with them and they would love on you and then BAM, they turned into snarling ankle biters. But they also had owners who wanted pocket dogs because it was fashionable, and had no interest in disciplining them. When the owners take an interest, like the owners I mentioned, the chihuahuas are wonderful, sweet, affectionate animals.
 
2013-08-21 02:13:13 PM  

ThatBillmanGuy: I work in installation and go to a lot of people's homes, so I encounter pitbulls a lot here in southern California. Besides most of them being huge with the head of a Tyrannosaurus, they've never lunged at me or tried to attack me. But they can bark the sound of the end times if I'm on the other side of the fence.

Chihuahuas on the other hand... Vicious little monsters.


Owner of 3 chihuahuas here and I can confirm. They know no fear.
 
2013-08-21 02:18:47 PM  

spidermilk: I completely agree that a bad owner can make ANY dog into a bad dog.

<snip>
When dogs bite you when you turn your back- they are fear aggressive. They are so afraid of you that they wait until you are retreating to attack and hope that that will keep you away for good. This is really serious because without counter-conditioning the dog's fear could get worse and worse (for example if people keep petting it when it is cowering in fear) until the dog seriously hurts someone. Guy who's brother's dogs do this- I feel bad for those poor dogs.
<snip>


Well, you certainly sound knowledgeable, and since I see my brother *maybe* 3 times a year I don't really know what type of environment those dogs are being raised in.  Brother always has had some anger issues, so it does make sense...

Also nice to get some validation for the work I have put into my dog.  He always attacks from the front.

/and goes for the face
//with his tongue
 
2013-08-21 02:23:40 PM  

FarFarAway: spidermilk: FarFarAway: r1niceboy: rikerdude: The 'ankle biters' are more agressive. But, when was the last time you read an article about a dachshund or a chihuahua trying to tear someones throat out?

A chihuahua would if they could. Those dogs are, by far, the most likely to snap at a person. I love all dogs, but those are so likely to be babied because of their size, and their aggression and possessiveness not corrected.

I used to work for a vet, and I learned to hate chihuahuas once they were over 6 months old. Before that they were usually tiny and terrified and sweet, but then it was like a switch flipped in them. But then I met some chihuahuas who were owned by people who actually trained them and disciplined them, and took it as seriously as if the chihuahuas were much bigger, more dangerous dogs. Those are some of the sweetest, most obedient, friendly dogs I've ever seen. Within a few hours of meeting them, I had their unneutered male chihuahua belly up in my lap, and he was sound asleep. The female only wanted to be held and cuddled, she didn't care if she knew you or not. So, just like big dogs, the little ones are a reflection of their owners.

No offense to you, because a lot of chihuahuas are completely out of control, but I never really can believe vets on their opinion of what dogs are nice or not. Most dogs see the vet when they are in pain (ear infection for example) or the vet gives them shots, draws blood, etc. (I can get my dog used to normal exams, but I'm not giving him dummy shots so he gets used to it!) So some dogs have extreme vet fear.

That's true, but it wouldn't explain why the puppies that were sweet as could be, even when they were frightened, at 8 weeks and 12 weeks and everything up to 6-7 months (before they were fixed, too) would suddenly decide to turn and be nasty. It happened every time. When they were tiny you could cuddle them and play with them and they would love on you and then BAM, they turned into snarling ankle biter ...


They're sweet when they're young because they haven't learned to fear the vet yet.  When I was a kid, we had a couple of dogs that became absolutely terrified of the vet.  Shaking, shivering, whining, and guaranteed at least one puddle of pee.  They were so bad the vet decided to try something new.  "Let's do this outside and see how they handle it."  They were great.  They got shots and everything, happy as could be.  Didn't even notice the needles.  From then on, they got their exams on the lawn.
 
2013-08-21 02:25:25 PM  
So, pitbulls are better than most breeds at killing humans.

Some say pitbulls are perfectly fine if raised properly. So are every other breed of dog (except border collies - fark those guys).

So why not just own another breed?
 
2013-08-21 02:35:05 PM  
Had a neighbour with a put-bull/mastiff mix (150# of ugly) --- All she ever wanted to was to get scritches and lick ya' till you soggy...  Little children... yep... she'd romp with them to exhaustion. To her a toddler = her puppy...   She only hated the people in the tweaker house, then again everyone on the street did. Another neighbour had a "pretty" spaniel ... who was a nasty furball of hate, no reason known... Just a mean dog from the start.  Then again a lot of pits are super strong... so one bite from them is all it takes; and a lot of them are conditioned poorly.... where another dog may not do much damage...
 
2013-08-21 02:36:03 PM  

SmackLT: If you haven't heard it, Bill Burr's bit on owning a pit bull is hilarious (language is NSFW)


Good stuff
 
2013-08-21 02:38:41 PM  
My single biggest problem with dog owners are people who let their dogs shiat on my property and don't clean it up.  This is more of a nuisance than a danger.

The only other problem I have are dog owners who irresponsibly claim that their dogs are not a danger to other pets and people, when in fact, multiple studies show that they are.  WTF is with this denial?  "Abstract: Objective: Maiming and death due to dog bites are uncommon but preventable tragedies. We postulated that patients admitted to a level I trauma center with dog bites would have severe injuries and that the gravest injuries would be those caused by pit bulls.


Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. [citation]


 I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous.  And spay/neuter your dog.  Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.
 
2013-08-21 02:40:04 PM  

mbillips: [www.nokilldelaware.org image 600x600]


Thanks, I was about to ask where this pic was.  /oblig
 
2013-08-21 02:40:30 PM  

hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls


With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.
 
2013-08-21 02:40:37 PM  
I haz been demonizeded.

images.buycostumes.com
 
2013-08-21 02:47:50 PM  

GnomePaladin: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls

With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.


Well, the answer to your question is that your premise is false. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks. 10 years ago, Rottweilers accounted for the majority of fatal dog attacks. German shepherds, Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed." The fact is, the sort of irresponsible dog owners who raise dogs that kill people have latched on to pit bulls and pit bull mixes as their dog of choice. There are a LOT more pitties out there than ever before, thus the statistical jump in pit bull deaths. Rottweilers, dobies and German Shepherds are too expensive for the killer-dog owner these days; pitties are pretty much free.
 
2013-08-21 02:57:48 PM  

mbillips: e. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks.


Almost all fatal dog attacks are pit bulls and rottweilers.
 
2013-08-21 02:59:50 PM  
Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed."

Only in years where they could find less than 2 reported deaths. Small sample sizes lead to large margins of error.
 
2013-08-21 03:00:21 PM  

mbillips: GnomePaladin: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls

With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.

Well, the answer to your question is that your premise is false. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks. 10 years ago, Rottweilers accounted for the majority of fatal dog attacks. German shepherds, Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed." The fact is, the sort of irresponsible dog owners who raise dogs that kill people have latched on to pit bulls and pit bull mixes as their dog of choice. There are a LOT more pitties out there than ever before, thus the statistical jump in pit bull deaths. Rottweilers, dobies and German Shepherds are too expensive for the killer-dog owner these days; pitties are pretty much free.


I wonder what happens to the numbers when you report the unlisted police german shepards attacking due to command into the listing.  I guess nobody wants to take a real look at those.
 
2013-08-21 03:01:25 PM  

mbillips: GnomePaladin: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls

With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.

Well, the answer to your question is that your premise is false. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks. 10 years ago, Rottweilers accounted for the majority of fatal dog attacks. German shepherds, Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed." The fact is, the sort of irresponsible dog owners who raise dogs that kill people have latched on to pit bulls and pit bull mixes as their dog of choice. There are a LOT more pitties out there than ever before, thus the statistical jump in pit bull deaths. Rottweilers, dobies and German Shepherds are too expensive for the killer-dog owner these days; pitties are pretty much free.


You are trolling or just dumbass stupid.  (Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks)  From your own wiki citation, 15 of 18 deaths last year were from pits.
 
2013-08-21 03:02:44 PM  
 
2013-08-21 03:15:17 PM  

OptimusMatrix: HotWingConspiracy: http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-pit-bull-kills-pregnant-woman-pacifica-c a lifornia/story?id=14289961

Look how wrong you are. She actually dies from a head wound falling off a ladder. But nice attempt at the fear mongering.


And it only took the dog a few hours to start eating her.

Would you like more links? They're nearly endless.
 
2013-08-21 03:16:04 PM  

hammettman: mbillips: GnomePaladin: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls

With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.

Well, the answer to your question is that your premise is false. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks. 10 years ago, Rottweilers accounted for the majority of fatal dog attacks. German shepherds, Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed." The fact is, the sort of irresponsible dog owners who raise dogs that kill people have latched on to pit bulls and pit bull mixes as their dog of choice. There are a LOT more pitties out there than ever before, thus the statistical jump in pit bull deaths. Rottweilers, dobies and German Shepherds are too expensive for the killer-dog owner these days; pitties are pretty much free.

You are trolling or just dumbass stupid.  (Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks)  From your own wiki citation, 15 of 18 deaths last year were from pits.


One partial year (15 of 18 in 2013 vs. 18 of 34 in 2012) does not a clear trend make. Between 2008 and 2012, pit bulls and "pit-bull mixes" accounted for 82 out of 152 fatal attacks. That's not "nearly all," and it's an almost insignificant cause of death, half as likely as dying from an insect sting. Considering the life-lengthening effects of pet ownership, from lowered stress to getting more exercise, pit bulls probably save more lives than they take.
 
2013-08-21 03:58:21 PM  

mbillips: hammettman: mbillips: GnomePaladin: hammettman: As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls

With such overwhelming proof that this breed is more dangerous than others, accounting for almost all deaths from dogs, what is the justification for continuing this line?  I'm not saying kill all the pitbulls, but why not require spay/neutering and simply end the line?

Don't argue small numbers, that's irrelevant.  SOME people die from dog attacks, and almost all of them are from pit bulls.  I'm not scared of being hurt or killed by a pit, but someone will be in the next few weeks whether I am or not.

Well, the answer to your question is that your premise is false. Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks. 10 years ago, Rottweilers accounted for the majority of fatal dog attacks. German shepherds, Doberman pinschers and Huskies also have been implicated in the past as "the most dangerous breed." The fact is, the sort of irresponsible dog owners who raise dogs that kill people have latched on to pit bulls and pit bull mixes as their dog of choice. There are a LOT more pitties out there than ever before, thus the statistical jump in pit bull deaths. Rottweilers, dobies and German Shepherds are too expensive for the killer-dog owner these days; pitties are pretty much free.

You are trolling or just dumbass stupid.  (Pit bulls do NOT account for nearly all deaths from dog attacks)  From your own wiki citation, 15 of 18 deaths last year were from pits.

One partial year (15 of 18 in 2013 vs. 18 of 34 in 2012) does not a clear trend make. Between 2008 and 2012, pit bulls and "pit-bull mixes" accounted for 82 out of 152 fatal attacks. That's not "nearly all," and it's an almost insignificant cause of death, half as likely as dying from an insect sting. Considering the life-lengthening effects of pet ownership, from lowered stress to getting more exercise, pit bulls probably save more lives ...


OK, you're trolling.  I've been bit and I'm done here.
 
2013-08-21 04:00:10 PM  
One of the pitbulls I had as a kid did not like people coming over at all. What the dog would do is he would come up from behind, stand up, put his paws on their shoulders and push them toward the door. It was funny seeing a dog give somebody the bum's rush.
 
2013-08-21 04:20:39 PM  

FarFarAway: Digitalstrange: But that still proves a point Subby. They are aggressive only to those they are trained to be aggressive towards. Raise a pitbull as a housepet away from any other dog trained for security (this is important, dogs are pack animals and can absorb aggressive behavior from other canine members of a household) and they are sweet as hell. They tend to be very laid back animals by nature.

I have a Pit mix, and he is not at all aggressive toward people. On the contrary, he thinks people are the most awesome thing ever, and come to my house solely to see him and scratch his belly. On the rare occasion when he has not fallen instantly in love with a stranger, his immediate (and so far only) reaction is to stand between me and the person he doesn't like, and watch them. That's it. No growling, no barking, no baring of teeth. Just passive protection. Every time that has happened, the person on the receiving end of his stare has been smart enough to give him his space. But in the 11 years I've had him, that's happened maybe 5 times, and they were always strangers that came to the door wanting something.

Where I do have problems with him is with other dogs, and small animals. He's a great ratter, and he hates other male dogs with a fiery passion. Part of that is breed, part of it is his past (he was nearly killed by a pack of older male dogs when he was a puppy). So when he's around other animals, I watch him like a hawk.

Pits are awesome dogs, and I would have another mix or full blood in a heartbeat. But they require a LOT of attention and training and structure. One of the biggest mistakes people make is having more than one of them at time. As the only Pit in the household, with an owner who is aware of their needs, you won't find a sweeter, more affectionate, more loyal dog anywhere.


This.

Pits are hard work, i wouldn't recommend them to anyone who doesn't have the time to devote to training them very very well.

I love my pit, but she's a fricken handful.
 
2013-08-21 04:32:12 PM  
My pit mix is a sweetheart and loves pinning me and Mrs. daveUSMC down and licking us to death. That said, she's not a harmless can't-do-wrong little daisy. Responsible ownership means we supervise her in situations with new people or dogs, and keep her away from potentially disastrous encounters.

It's ok to realize that owning a pit is not the same as owning a puntable rat-dog while at the same time acknowledging that the mere fact that the dog is a pit bull does not mean you should construct a beach from all the sand in your vagina.
 
2013-08-21 06:07:49 PM  
There are no bad dogs, just irresponsible dog owners.
 
2013-08-21 06:08:10 PM  

hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]


That's still not the whole story though.  Proportions matter, especially when it comes to 'pit bulls' when reporters and reporting officials proceed to not just include 'pit bulls' in the statistics, but pit bull crosses, other breeds that vaguely resemble pit bulls, to include bull dogs.

Pit bulls are a bit like AR-15 rifles - pit bulls are popular, defined wider than other breeds*, and while proportionally they're a minority of the attacks, when they're present they're more deadly.

johnny_vegas: hammettman: Half of all dog bites are done by pit bulls.

That is a lot more salient point than the number of fatalities IMHO


I doubt it.  I'd believe that 'half of all dog bites that require medical attention are by pit bulls'.

impaler: Some say pitbulls are perfectly fine if raised properly. So are every other breed of dog (except border collies - fark those guys).

So why not just own another breed?


Because dog owners don't want to start a vicious cycle of banning the 'new' dangerous dog breed?  I mean, in my lifespan it's been Boxers, Rottweilers, Dobermans and finally Pit Bulls that the trailer park trash people that *want* vicious dogs.  Start banning breeds and they'll just shift to the next and ruin it too.

*Under pit bull definitions, all Labradors would be one breed, not separated into black, yellow, and chocolate.
 
2013-08-21 06:28:03 PM  
i758.photobucket.comi758.photobucket.com

/R.I.P my love
//Miss you lots
 
2013-08-21 07:01:11 PM  
Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.
 
2013-08-21 07:23:54 PM  

letrole: Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.


Wow damn, you got more copy/paste material. I'm so impressed. Just don't get confused and post this instead of the 'if a man gets turned on at the site of a man or a man gets turned on at the site of a woman bla bla bla' thing in the gay rights threads.
 
2013-08-21 07:28:17 PM  
hammettman: Pit bulls are harmless, as any pit bull owner will tell you.  What statistics tell you: "As of May 25, 2013, the USA death count from dogs in 2013 is 14. Of these, 13 people were killed by pit bulls."   [citation]

Not a valid citation. It refers to a study done by Merritt Clifton. Nobody has any idea what his raw data was, and none of his statistics are consistent with what independent peer reviewed research shows. He has no qualifications to do scientific research into dog behavior.

The CDC, on the other hand, ceased tracking dog bites by breed/type in the late 1990s, as it was their determination that such studies do "not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy making decisions related to the topic....There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are likely to bite or kill." Makes a little sense; if you don't know the total number of dogs in a breed, you can't create a percentage of the number of dog bites per breed.
 
2013-08-21 07:29:57 PM  
Over the past ten years all this happened: My favorite neighbor was badly mauled by a Rottweiler that ripped loose from another neighbor. I was badly bit in the calf by a husky at the dog park. My 60-pound dog was attacked and had part of her ear bitten off by a German Shepard. My 6 1/2-foot-tall husband was knocked to to ground and bitten by an Akita. And lastly, my brother-in-law's neighbor, a cute sweet little girl, was killed by a family pit bull last year in Victoria, TX.

Sometimes stereotypes are true, folks.
 
2013-08-21 07:33:34 PM  
Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.

Pit bulls do not have locking jaws. They have the exact same jaw structure as every other breed of dog. If they had a different jaw structure, they wouldn't be dogs. They would be a different species.

And no, they don't have particularly strong jaws either. Jaw strength is a function of the size of the jaw. A pit bull has the same jaw strength as any other dog of the same size. In fact, there's evidence that they have less jaw strength than German Shepherds or Rottweilers.
 
2013-08-21 07:39:17 PM  

hammettman: My single biggest problem with dog owners are people who let their dogs shiat on my property and don't clean it up.  This is more of a nuisance than a danger.

The only other problem I have are dog owners who irresponsibly claim that their dogs are not a danger to other pets and people, when in fact, multiple studies show that they are.  WTF is with this denial?  "Abstract: Objective: Maiming and death due to dog bites are uncommon but preventable tragedies. We postulated that patients admitted to a level I trauma center with dog bites would have severe injuries and that the gravest injuries would be those caused by pit bulls.


Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. [citation]

 I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous.  And spay/neuter your dog.  Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.


Since when are emergency room personnel able to identify a dog's breed when they haven't even seen the dog? It's nearly impossible to identify a dog's breed by sight. Shelter workers can't do it. So how do people who people who don't work with dogs do it without even seeing the dog?
 
2013-08-21 07:43:00 PM  
hammettman: OK, you're trolling.  I've been bit and I'm done here.

I was bitten by a Fox Terrier. Therefore, Fox Terriers are dangerous and should be banned. Anyone who disagrees is trolling. I'm done here.
 
2013-08-21 07:47:43 PM  
spidermilk: No offense to you, because a lot of chihuahuas are completely out of control, but I never really can believe vets on their opinion of what dogs are nice or not. Most dogs see the vet when they are in pain (ear infection for example) or the vet gives them shots, draws blood, etc. (I can get my dog used to normal exams, but I'm not giving him dummy shots so he gets used to it!) So some dogs have extreme vet fear.

If shots really freak out your dog, you can desensitize him by giving him dummy shots with a retractable pen while also giving him high-value treats. It's not a perfect method and an actual shot still hurts, but it can help him to be more calm when getting a shot.
 
2013-08-21 07:51:13 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.


I predict it will be the Belgian Malinois.
 
2013-08-21 08:05:11 PM  

hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.


Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

For example, my parent's Boston Terriers have been mistaken for pit bulls:
upload.wikimedia.org
For scale: Breed standards are 10-25 pounds

upload.wikimedia.org
American Pit Bull Terrier, 30-65 pounds.

Unfixed male is a bigger indicator of attack, especially against children, than breed, as is criminal background for the owner.  Violent owners tend to have violent dogs.
 
2013-08-21 08:09:16 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Most pit bulls are friendly animals.  Problem is, when they do decide to clamp down on you, they have that darn lock jaw.


No.  No, they don't.

/myth
 
2013-08-21 08:14:28 PM  

Phins: hammettman: My single biggest problem with dog owners are people who let their dogs shiat on my property and don't clean it up.  This is more of a nuisance than a danger.

The only other problem I have are dog owners who irresponsibly claim that their dogs are not a danger to other pets and people, when in fact, multiple studies show that they are.  WTF is with this denial?  "Abstract: Objective: Maiming and death due to dog bites are uncommon but preventable tragedies. We postulated that patients admitted to a level I trauma center with dog bites would have severe injuries and that the gravest injuries would be those caused by pit bulls.


Conclusions: Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites. [citation]

 I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous.  And spay/neuter your dog.  Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Since when are emergency room personnel able to identify a dog's breed when they haven't even seen the dog? It's nearly impossible to identify a dog's breed by sight. Shelter workers can't do it. So how do people who people who don't work with dogs do it without even seeing the dog?


So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs?  Perhaps you also dispute most major insurance companies, who will not underwrite a homeowner policy if a pit bull is on the property.  Peruse Wikipedia, which has compiled a yearly list of dog attacks, which this year lists 15 of the 18 fatalities due to pit bulls.  This list is comprised of newspaper reports, from across the country.  So, what, is it the "liberal media" that can't be trusted defense?

I really have nothing against the animals known as pit bulls.  I am actually friends with a few of these dogs.  My problem lies with people, who against all order of evidence, both documented and heresay, insist on denying that these powerful animals can be a hazard and by their actions place other people and other animals in danger.
 
2013-08-21 08:32:22 PM  

Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.


The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.
 
2013-08-21 08:35:25 PM  

r1niceboy: 1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.

They're less likely to get into a spontaneous fight with another dog than a Malamute or husky. Those scrap for dominance pretty regularly. They're less likely to bite than a chihuahua, and less stubborn in letting go than a bulldog. It's just they have enough of all the tendencies to make for a dog that, once in a fight, will do a lot of damage to the other small creature it's attacking.


you just reminded me of the peanuts animation (forget the title off the top of my head) where snoopy becomes a sled dog...  been years since i've even randomly thought of that.  thanks.  :)
 
2013-08-21 08:55:19 PM  

spidermilk: letrole: Someone who owns a pit bull also tends to:

1. Buy twenty lottery tickets each week.
2. Have a tattoo on their hands or neck.
3. Pursue futile workman's comp claims.
4. Take photographs of babies holding beer cans.
5. Prominently display an electric guitar in the living room.
6. Have a shaven head.
7. Rent the television for £7 weekly.
8. Lift weights in the front garden.
9. Wear t-shirts featuring profanity.
10. Have at least two stepchildren, each with a different surname.

Wow damn, you got more copy/paste material. I'm so impressed. Just don't get confused and post this instead of the 'if a man gets turned on at the site of a man or a man gets turned on at the site of a woman bla bla bla' thing in the gay rights threads.


well, it matters if the pit bull is male or female...
 
2013-08-21 09:08:49 PM  
No dog breed is naturally violent towards people, though some have been bred with a high prey drive toward small animals (sight hounds, terrier, malamutes, huskies). No, the problem is violent owners that viciously abuse the animals until they die or turn violent. The answer is to put down the violent owners.
 
2013-08-21 09:40:12 PM  

hammettman: Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.


The problem with any study of dog bites by breed is that ignore the human and environmental factors. Dog bites are usually a combination of factors. Read The Problem With Dog Bite Studies from the National Canine Research Center.

Thanks to all of the inaccurate reporting, pit bulls have become very attractive to bad owners.

It is important to look at the underlying factors of an attack. The media repeatedly fails to do so. Often, the owner describes an attack as unprovoked, but you read further, and the reporter describes the home as having "guard dog" signs.
Dogs maintained outside the home (on chains, in kennels or in yards) and/or dogs obtained for negative functions (guarding, fighting, protection, breeding for financial gain) are not family pets; they are what are sometimes referred to as "resident dogs." Acknowledging the environment in which they live and the function for which they are maintained is vital to understanding their behavior and, when the situation arises, their aggression. Resident dogs cannot be expected to exhibit the same behaviors and level of sociability as family dogs. The simple reason why we see pit bulls involved in more attacks now (though not nearly as many as the media would have one believe) is there are more of them being kept as "resident dogs" vs. family pets.

To give a statistic, 75% of Austin's tethering calls are related to pit bulls, and 22% of its stray dog calls are related to pit bulls. (Source: City of Austin, 2008). The higher the abuse of a particular breed of dog, the more likely it is going to exhibit aggression. Studies have found that a tethered dog is 2.8 times more likely to attack. So, it is reasonable to presume that the breed suffering the most abuse will exhibit the most problems. This historically correlates with breeds that have suffered abuse (i.e., been used as "resident dogs") in the past, such as Rottweilers in the 90s, Dobermans in the 80s, and German Shepherds in the 70s. Correspondingly, historically, during periods of time when pit bulls were popular family pets, and were not being used in record numbers as "resident dogs," their attack statistics were extremely low.
 
2013-08-21 11:52:32 PM  

r1niceboy: To responsible owners, maybe. It's the ones that weren't interviewed, the ones used to make the owners look like they have tough dogs, that are the aggressive ones. I had a Staffordshire Bull terrier years back, and it was the most fawning thing you'll ever see, but there was the Engage Satan switch in its head. It always flipped when it saw a rabbit or a squirrel. It took many years of work to negate those tendencies. Some dogs are more prone to aggression though, anyone saying otherwise is an idiot.


Yeah, that's my experience.  They're fantastic dogs, but you need to be a responsible owner and you need to be aware of what they can do.  I had my Buster for years, sweetest dog in the world but in certain situations he could and he absolutely would start wrecking shiat.  I saw it as my job to keep him out of those situations.
 
2013-08-21 11:55:42 PM  
Also, as much as I appreciate the sentiment behind the photos, I just wish everybody would stop trying to make their pits look all sweet, fluffy and innocent.  They may actually BE sweet and innocent, but they look like what they were born to be:  Muscle bound terminators.  All the bunny ears in the world won't hide it.
 
2013-08-22 12:06:11 AM  

Phins: 1000 Ways to Dye: Pit Bulls are generally (GENERALLY) dog aggressive but not human aggressive, since dog fighters want a dog that they can handle.

That said, treat them nice, they'll be perfectly good dogs. Wasn't there a story here on Fark a couple of years ago about how the city of Toronto banned the breed, and instead of incidences of dog bites going down as expected, it was just other dogs picking up the slack?

Pit Bulls aren't more likely to bite you, but they are more likely to be owned by shiatty owners. It's as simple as that. In another decade or so, another breed will be popular with shiatty owners, and that breed will get a bad rap. Happened with dobermans, happened with rottweillers.

I predict it will be the Belgian Malinois.


God help us all if it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXqNl5bTCMU Would be a hundred times worse than bully breeds.
 
2013-08-22 02:50:23 AM  

Phins: hammettman: Firethorn: hammettman: I am not for regulation by dog breed, but farking get a clue. Stop denying that your breed is dangerous. And spay/neuter your dog. Try visiting an animal shelter if you don't think this is a good idea.

Interesting.  The problem I have with the study(only looked at the abstract; not paying money) is that it assumes that people know enough to identify a pit bull; IE that the hospital records are accurate.

The dog breeds were not identified by hospital records.  The hospital records were used solely to classify the nature/severity of the wounds.  The study was actually a follow up to the hospital records, which then went back to police and official reports of the attack. In over 80% of the cases, the dogs were also identified by the owners themselves as pit bulls.  It's entirely possible that the owners improperly classified their own dogs, and there may have been other factors that prompted the owners to name their own dogs as pit bulls when they may in fact have been another breed.  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.

The problem with any study of dog bites by breed is that ignore the human and environmental factors. Dog bites are usually a combination of factors. Read The Problem With Dog Bite Studies from the National Canine Research Center.

Thanks to all of the inaccurate reporting, pit bulls have become very attractive to bad owners.

It is important to look at the underlying factors of an attack. The media repeatedly fails to do so. Often, the owner describes an attack as unprovoked, but you read further, and the reporter describes the home as having "guard dog" signs.
Dogs maintained outside the home (on chains, in kennels or in yards) and/or dogs obtained for negative functions (guarding, fighting, protection, breeding for financial gain) are not family pets; they are what are sometimes referred to as "resident dogs." Acknowledging the environment in which they li ...


My suspicion is that some breeds are macho and attract a higher quotient of assholes.
 
2013-08-22 05:35:08 AM  
This pix has nothing to do with TFA or comments.
Just sharing.

i280.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-22 08:25:22 AM  
Firethorn:

*Under pit bull definitions, all Labradors would be one breed, not separated into black, yellow, and chocolate.

*confused look*

All Labradors are one breed.  The separate colors are not defined as separate breeds.  Any color labrador can have any of the three of the colors in their offspring, in a single litter, regardless of the color of the parents, although I believe black is the dominant color gene.  A lot of AKC defined breeds have defined coat color standards.
 
2013-08-22 08:28:16 AM  
Elsie the tired mutt-

lh4.googleusercontent.com

She leads a rough life.
 
2013-08-22 08:31:58 AM  

hammettman: So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs


No, but I disagree with your seeming suggestion that I should give a rat's ass about this at all considering that the probability of dying from ANY dog attack is roughly equivalent to the probability of getting killed by a lightning strike.

You can drone on and on about the fact that pit bulls are more dangerous if there's an attack but I'm just going to keep thinking you're terrible at math since you keep ignoring the fact that the probability of an attack happening in the first place is very, very low.
 
2013-08-22 08:54:29 AM  

skozlaw: hammettman: So you dispute a peer reviewed 15 year study, which took into account police and animal control reports, which no doubt would have aided in the identification of the offending dogs

No, but I disagree with your seeming suggestion that I should give a rat's ass about this at all considering that the probability of dying from ANY dog attack is roughly equivalent to the probability of getting killed by a lightning strike.

You can drone on and on about the fact that pit bulls are more dangerous if there's an attack but I'm just going to keep thinking you're terrible at math since you keep ignoring the fact that the probability of an attack happening in the first place is very, very low.


You're missing the point entirely.
 
2013-08-22 01:33:40 PM  

hammettman: You're missing the point entirely.


Coming from a guy who believes raw statistics tell the whole story.
 
2013-08-22 01:35:53 PM  

Hardy-r-r: This pix has nothing to do with TFA or comments.
Just sharing.

[i280.photobucket.com image 268x188]


Boobies belong in every thread, IMHO.
 
2013-08-22 04:44:38 PM  

hammettman:  But there is a clear trend of data, plus or minus all manner of caveats, that is indisputable.

Phin put it very much better than I did as well.  Bad owners are selecting Pit Bulls, like they targeted other breeds in the past, and the effects show.

dig420: Also, as much as I appreciate the sentiment behind the photos, I just wish everybody would stop trying to make their pits look all sweet, fluffy and innocent.  They may actually BE sweet and innocent, but they look like what they were born to be:  Muscle bound terminators.  All the bunny ears in the world won't hide it.


Muscle bound terminator, dog form:
scientopia.orgnetstorage.discovery.com
Note:  Not a pit bull.
 
2013-08-22 06:56:21 PM  
In the 60's the bad dogs were usually German Shepards. There were several tough guys who had theirs chained in their yard, and these dogs went berserk when anyone walked by.

In the 70's it was Dorbermans. Pretty much the same scenario, all the touch guys got them, and bragged about how tough and mean their dog was.

In the 80's and part of the 90's it was Rottweilers. You wanted to be the macho guy you had a Rottie, and you made sure he acted like a rabid wolf anytime a person or another dog was in view.

Now it's Pit bulls. Once again, the meaner you can make it the BAAAAAAAADER you are.

There is probably already a new 'MEAN DOG' breed. It will be a larger dog, and like any other dog, if you mistreat it, it will be mean. And then we can recycle all the stories again about how that breed is unfit and just born evil. Just like we did with German Shepards, Rottweilers, Dobermans, and Pit Bulls.

America's Babysitter

I myself do not own, nor have I ever owned, a pit bull. I also do not have family or friends who own one. But I knew people who owned each of the earlier 'unfit' dogs, some being good owners with good dogs, and some who wanted a mean dog because it was cool. I never knew a good owner who had a bad dog.
 
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