If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   The cost for keeping the West Coast from becoming kindling? More than a billion dollars   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 45
    More: Interesting, western U.S., fires  
•       •       •

2072 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Aug 2013 at 8:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-21 08:04:29 AM
"Ashes" is the word you're looking for.
 
2013-08-21 08:06:57 AM
Meanwhile the east coast is as soggy as your mom's drawers.
 
2013-08-21 08:09:06 AM

JohnAnnArbor: "Ashes" is the word you're looking for.




You can add kindling to a fire. You can even add it after the fire has started.

Subby is technically correct.
 
2013-08-21 08:10:32 AM
My brain kept turning that into "$1/lb", the confusion was exhilarating...
 
2013-08-21 08:11:07 AM
ecx.images-amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-America-Cultural-History-Wildland/dp/0295 97 592X

Probably one of the best books on the subject you'll find.  In a nutshell: fire is a natural part of the ecosystem. Let small ones burn so we don't get decades of under brush building up, which leads to huge conflagrations.
 
2013-08-21 08:11:15 AM
California is already kindling. it just isn't all on fire yet.

/ golden hills my ass. them hills is brown!
 
2013-08-21 08:11:18 AM

StoPPeRmobile: JohnAnnArbor: "Ashes" is the word you're looking for.



You can add kindling to a fire. You can even add it after the fire has started.

Subby is technically correct.


Which is the best kind
 
2013-08-21 08:11:30 AM
The problem of course is that to some degree they're supposed to burn regularly and they're not getting to.
 
2013-08-21 08:14:13 AM

Gortex: Probably one of the best books on the subject you'll find. In a nutshell: fire is a natural part of the ecosystem. Let small ones burn so we don't get decades of under brush building up, which leads to huge conflagrations.


But, I want my dream log cabin home built in the middle of all of it! I demand protection!
 
2013-08-21 08:16:27 AM
What a waste. We should have given the money to NASA or the military.
 
2013-08-21 08:18:23 AM
California has a GDP that is roughly equal to #27-51 (counting D.C.) of all the rest of the US state individual GDPs combined.

Since the California political leadership has chosen to allow development along fault lines, in dry brush canyons and on dirt hillsides with no protection from mudslides, how about California just starts paying for all their own chickens coming home to roost?

Quite frankly, the rest of us are tired of paying for unregulated idiocy.
 
2013-08-21 08:22:16 AM
StoPPeRmobile
2013-08-21 08:09:06 AM

JohnAnnArbor: "Ashes" is the word you're looking for.

You can add kindling to a fire. You can even add it after the fire has started.

Subby is technically correct.

It's already kindling. It can't become what it already is.

It was prevented from becoming Ash. Subby is incorrect.
 
2013-08-21 08:30:14 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: Gortex: Probably one of the best books on the subject you'll find. In a nutshell: fire is a natural part of the ecosystem. Let small ones burn so we don't get decades of under brush building up, which leads to huge conflagrations.

But, I want my dream log cabin home built in the middle of all of it! I demand protection!


These two comments sum up the picture pretty well.

Thin the threat.
 
2013-08-21 08:31:19 AM
Yes, but it's a worthwhile investment.  Think of all the good things that the rest of us in this country get from California.

oh...
 
2013-08-21 08:31:42 AM
So you are saying we can save a billion dollars AND have barbeque?

decisions, decisions
 
2013-08-21 08:34:58 AM
Kind of like burning money trying to fight burning forests.
 
2013-08-21 08:41:45 AM

Darkrover2: California has a GDP that is roughly equal to #27-51 (counting D.C.) of all the rest of the US state individual GDPs combined.

Since the California political leadership has chosen to allow development along fault lines, in dry brush canyons and on dirt hillsides with no protection from mudslides, how about California just starts paying for all their own chickens coming home to roost?

Quite frankly, the rest of us are tired of paying for unregulated idiocy.


California pays out more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal spending.
 
2013-08-21 08:50:45 AM
35% of California is public land controlled by the Forrest Service and the BLM. Idaho is 60%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_land
 
2013-08-21 08:57:14 AM
Oops - one r in forest. Fire should take care of the second one.
 
2013-08-21 08:59:19 AM

Gortex: [ecx.images-amazon.com image 195x303]

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-America-Cultural-History-Wildland/dp/0295 97 592X

Probably one of the best books on the subject you'll find.  In a nutshell: fire is a natural part of the ecosystem. Let small ones burn so we don't get decades of under brush building up, which leads to huge conflagrations.


Gortex: [ecx.images-amazon.com image 195x303]

http://www.amazon.com/Fire-America-Cultural-History-Wildland/dp/0295 97 592X

Probably one of the best books on the subject you'll find.  In a nutshell: fire is a natural part of the ecosystem. Let small ones burn so we don't get decades of under brush building up, which leads to huge conflagrations.




Always reminds me of this guy.
oyc.yale.edu
 
2013-08-21 09:02:06 AM

daRog: Darkrover2: California has a GDP that is roughly equal to #27-51 (counting D.C.) of all the rest of the US state individual GDPs combined.

Since the California political leadership has chosen to allow development along fault lines, in dry brush canyons and on dirt hillsides with no protection from mudslides, how about California just starts paying for all their own chickens coming home to roost?

Quite frankly, the rest of us are tired of paying for unregulated idiocy.

California pays out more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal spending.


It should.  A lot of the money that California pays comes back to it in military spending, Federal law enforcement to try to stop the drug traffic, coastal environmental issues, fisheries management, etc., etc., etc. And as the largest state GDP, it is natural for Cali to be responsible for a considerable chunk of the general Federal budget.

California has the largest GDP in the nation, but can't manage it's finances to avoid nearly going bankrupt every few years. California needs to raise it's state taxes to pay for the stuff they need, and to pay for the disasters already spoken of that Maine and Ohio and Nevada are tired of paying for.

The Pelosi's and Boxer's and Brown's may look like grandparents but they're still like hippies in one important way: they manage money worse than a Microbus full of unwashed kids we used to see at Dead shows.
 
2013-08-21 09:11:34 AM

Darkrover2: California needs to raise it's state taxes to pay for the stuff they need, and to pay for the disasters already spoken of that Maine and Ohio and Nevada are tired of paying for.


If you don't live in California, you aren't paying to deal with disasters in California.
 
2013-08-21 09:14:53 AM

daRog: Darkrover2: how about California just starts paying for all their own chickens coming home to roost?  Quite frankly, the rest of us are tired of paying for unregulated idiocy.

California pays out more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal spending.


How much more?  One penny?  And, whatever it is, it has to pay for ALL of the Fed benefits they get for EVERYTHING, not just fires.  Sorry, but I'm with Darkrover.

Given that CA's GDP is about $2 trillion, $1b to self-insure should be within their capabilities.  This would be to pay back the Fed for saving their back and for the increased damages to Fed lands in CA.

OR, California could simply institute laws and a fiscal approach that lowers the fire risk in the first place.
 
2013-08-21 09:18:56 AM

daRog: Darkrover2: California needs to raise it's state taxes to pay for the stuff they need, and to pay for the disasters already spoken of that Maine and Ohio and Nevada are tired of paying for.

If you don't live in California, you aren't paying to deal with disasters in California.


Apparantly you're from Anaheim?? Mayor of Fantasyland?
 
2013-08-21 09:26:39 AM

daRog: Darkrover2: California needs to raise it's state taxes to pay for the stuff they need, and to pay for the disasters already spoken of that Maine and Ohio and Nevada are tired of paying for.

If you don't live in California, you aren't paying to deal with disasters in California.


Depends on the disaster. Fed pays 75% of the cost for forest fires, so I guess I do pay. Probably the most surprising thing people would find on their first trip to California is how big it is - and how little land is actually urban. When so much of the West is federal land, it takes a lot of state resources to cover it all. Sure a lot of Fed money is paid, but there are still roads to maintain going through vast areas that can't be built on for tax revenue. The lack of private land drives prices up which is confusing to people as well - housing is cheap in large rural states like the mid-west. Very little federal land.
 
2013-08-21 09:37:57 AM

Wodan11: How much more? One penny?


In 2005, about 22 cents per dollar.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-21 09:40:44 AM

OnlyM3: StoPPeRmobile
2013-08-21 08:09:06 AM

JohnAnnArbor: "Ashes" is the word you're looking for.

You can add kindling to a fire. You can even add it after the fire has started.

Subby is technically correct.
It's already kindling. It can't become what it already is.

It was prevented from becoming Ash. Subby is incorrect.


Technically, kindling is what you use to start a fire.  What you're talking about is fire wood, or just generically "fuel."

You're both technically incorrect, which is the worst kind of incorrect.
 
2013-08-21 09:42:29 AM

tillerman35: OnlyM3: StoPPeRmobile
2013-08-21 08:09:06 AM

JohnAnnArbor: "Ashes" is the word you're looking for.

You can add kindling to a fire. You can even add it after the fire has started.

Subby is technically correct.
It's already kindling. It can't become what it already is.

It was prevented from becoming Ash. Subby is incorrect.

Technically, kindling is what you use to start a fire.  What you're talking about is fire wood, or just generically "fuel."

You're both technically incorrect, which is the worst kind of incorrect.


No, tinder is what starts a fire.  Kindling is just used to get it going until you can add bigger hungks of firewood (no space or hyphen needed there, btw).

Get your terms right, boy scout.
 
2013-08-21 09:47:34 AM
Ok so it will take an audit of the Federal spending in CA to see if this level of emergency fire funding is warranted or not.  Just as simply saying they pay "more" is not sufficient justification, nor is saying "22 cents on the dollar".

The basic issue remains, however.  Should states be empowered to have poor fiscal or property management, knowing the federal gov't will cover their inadequacies?
 
2013-08-21 10:09:06 AM

daRog: Wodan11: How much more? One penny?

In 2005, about 22 cents per dollar.

[i.imgur.com image 487x631]


It's actually 28 cents on the dollar, if you're responding to the question of how much it pays out per dollar it gets back. (.22/.78)
 
2013-08-21 10:13:16 AM
OK, just to explain my reasoning there, if California pays $1.00 it gets $0.78 back. Thus if California pays $1.28 it gets $1.00 back.

 

Wodan11: California pays out more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal spending.

How much more?  One penny?

 
2013-08-21 10:15:59 AM

Wodan11: Ok so it will take an audit of the Federal spending in CA to see if this level of emergency fire funding is warranted or not.  Just as simply saying they pay "more" is not sufficient justification, nor is saying "22 cents on the dollar".

The basic issue remains, however.  Should states be empowered to have poor fiscal or property management, knowing the federal gov't will cover their inadequacies?


Are you bad at math?

CA paid $289 billion in federal taxes and received $242 billion in spending. The balance of that money went to pay for shiat in other states. I guess that's bad fiscal management since they're getting screwed by subsidizing other states.

It doesn't take an audit to realize that it's reasonable for them to expect to receive an additional $1billion in disaster relief. Not to mention, that we aren't just sending that money to be burned... it'll be spent, largely on paying workers, who will then pay more federal taxes.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-21 10:19:11 AM
I think these are the same people who think that the east coast is uninhabitable because of hurricanes.
 
2013-08-21 10:27:55 AM

Wodan11: OR, California could simply institute laws and a fiscal approach that lowers the fire risk in the first place.


I'm not gonna speak for all of Cali, but here in Los Angeles, fires are a HUGE deal and there are laws in place that are meant to lessen them.  That said, it is extremely dry here and all it takes is someone to toss a lighted cigarette from their car to start a brush fire.   It's happened quite a bit already, but our fire department is usually good about responding to them.   Fire laws are pretty strict here.   Much stricter than where I'm from in PA.
 
2013-08-21 10:39:06 AM
That $1 billion figure includes all fires in the US, including flyover states like mine that receive more than they pay in federal taxes, not just CA or the west coast.

That said, we waste a lot of money and even a few lives trying to fight a battle we can never win. Forests burn. That's their nature. It's time we embrace it.
 
2013-08-21 10:53:06 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Are you bad at math?

CA paid $289 billion in federal taxes and received $242 billion in spending. The balance of that money went to pay for shiat in other states. I guess that's bad fiscal management since they're getting screwed by subsidizing other states.

It doesn't take an audit to realize that it's reasonable for them to expect to receive an additional $1billion in disaster relief. Not to mention, that we aren't just sending that money to be burned... it'll be spent, largely on paying workers, who will then pay more federal taxes.


Okay, so using your logic if I buy a toaster from Best Buy, I should get the extended warranty for free.  It's reasonable to expect to receive an additional warranty since I am paying them more than Best Buy had to pay the manufacturer.

Furthermore, if I leave my toaster out on my front porch in the weather, and as a result it shorts out, I can expect to receive a free toaster replacement from Best Buy.  Meanwhile, a responsible consumer, who takes care of his toaster, has little to no risk of having it shorted out.

How in the world is that equitable or sensible?  CA should be required to have sensible land management policies and fiscal management.
 
2013-08-21 11:35:14 AM

Wodan11: CA should be required to have sensible land management policies and fiscal management.


More so than other states or the fed?
 
2013-08-21 11:37:05 AM

Wodan11: Okay, so using your logic if I buy a toaster from Best Buy, I should get the extended warranty for free. It's reasonable to expect to receive an additional warranty since I am paying them more than Best Buy had to pay the manufacturer.


OK so using your logic, if I give you $10.00 and you give me back $9.00, I'm a moocher if I come back later and ask for another $.25.
 
2013-08-21 12:17:34 PM

Darkrover2: daRog: Darkrover2: California has a GDP that is roughly equal to #27-51 (counting D.C.) of all the rest of the US state individual GDPs combined.

Since the California political leadership has chosen to allow development along fault lines, in dry brush canyons and on dirt hillsides with no protection from mudslides, how about California just starts paying for all their own chickens coming home to roost?

Quite frankly, the rest of us are tired of paying for unregulated idiocy.

California pays out more in federal taxes than it receives back in federal spending.

It should.  A lot of the money that California pays comes back to it in military spending, Federal law enforcement to try to stop the drug traffic, coastal environmental issues, fisheries management, etc., etc., etc. And as the largest state GDP, it is natural for Cali to be responsible for a considerable chunk of the general Federal budget.

California has the largest GDP in the nation, but can't manage it's finances to avoid nearly going bankrupt every few years. California needs to raise it's state taxes to pay for the stuff they need, and to pay for the disasters already spoken of that Maine and Ohio and Nevada are tired of paying for.

The Pelosi's and Boxer's and Brown's may look like grandparents but they're still like hippies in one important way: they manage money worse than a Microbus full of unwashed kids we used to see at Dead shows.


OK, why do people keep complaining that California pays more than it gets out? California is the biggest GDP in the country. They are the 1%. Shouldn't they be paying 90% of the federal budget? I mean, it is California, the biggest believing state in progressive taxation.
 
2013-08-21 12:18:49 PM

daRog: Wodan11: CA should be required to have sensible land management policies and fiscal management.

More so than other states or the fed?


Yes, insofar as areas where geography gives them higher innate considerations.

But certainly other states need to be held to the same standard in general (e.g., fiscal management).  I feel for people from, say, Katrina, but it's the exact same issue.  Poor land management, inadequate dikes, allowing people to live in flood zones.  It was only a matter of time before they would have to be bailed out of an emergency.
 
2013-08-21 12:21:51 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Wodan11: Okay, so using your logic if I buy a toaster from Best Buy, I should get the extended warranty for free. It's reasonable to expect to receive an additional warranty since I am paying them more than Best Buy had to pay the manufacturer.

OK so using your logic, if I give you $10.00 and you give me back $9.00, I'm a moocher if I come back later and ask for another $.25.


Yep, that's correct.  The $1.00 Net you paid me is for my overhead (Federal government) and has nothing to do with your basic premise of equal payment for services rendered.  So yes, you're mooching.
 
2013-08-21 12:28:30 PM

Vitamin Pb: OK, why do people keep complaining that California pays more than it gets out? California is the biggest GDP in the country. They are the 1%. Shouldn't they be paying 90% of the federal budget? I mean, it is California, the biggest believing state in progressive taxation.


Yes, their GDP is because everyone there is in the 1%. It has nothing to do with the fact that they've got 34 million residents.
Also, Alaska is like twice as big as California.. why don't they pay twice as much federal taxes?
 
2013-08-21 12:49:27 PM

Vitamin Pb: OK, why do people keep complaining that California pays more than it gets out?


I wasn't complaining. I merely stated a fact. California pays more to the fed than it receives. In effect that means the state pays for its own aid and still manages to pay extra to the fed. Not sure why people have a problem understanding that.
 
2013-08-21 01:48:10 PM

daRog: Wodan11: How much more? One penny?

In 2005, about 22 cents per dollar.

[i.imgur.com image 487x631]


Yep, it's the side effect of the extreme COL and high density.

Progressive taxes mean more money comes out, and then since CA benefits from having I-80 running through NV (among other things.  That's just the most obvious example), a lot of "their money" ends up going to other states.

If you want to fix that, end progressive taxation or increase the density of the NV desert.  Or get your shiat together re: infrastructure planning, so you can go get funding from the Feds without spending 30 years in NIMBY court cases (at which point you lose the funding and have to find new funding at which point the NIMBY's show up again, and no wonder it takes 30 years to plan infrastructure).
 
2013-08-21 07:15:59 PM
I say, let it burn.
 
Displayed 45 of 45 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report