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(NPR)   How is subby supposed to make his quota if young people won't buy stuff they don't need?   (npr.org ) divider line 78
    More: Scary, youths, car culture, artistic media  
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2694 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Aug 2013 at 9:06 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-21 09:11:50 AM  
It's nice to see consumerism starting a decline.

/won't last
 
2013-08-21 09:14:09 AM  
This is not surprising.  In larger dense cities like Chicago, a car can be a serious (and expensive) liability.  Heck, in some neighborhoods, just finding a parking spot can be a huge challenge.

Good public transportation options, nearby useful stores and great walkability.  Cars are - in this case - unnecessary.
 
2013-08-21 09:18:27 AM  
Did you ever watch Seinfeld and think it's odd that the characters drive everywhere?  Seems pointless.  Were people still terrified of the subway in the 90s?
 
2013-08-21 09:19:07 AM  
The newest generation isn't buying stuff they don't need...

i269.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 09:20:19 AM  

Because before cars everybody walked everywhere.

i1.trekearth.com

www.utexas.edu

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

us.123rf.com

 
2013-08-21 09:24:44 AM  
This what happens when you don't pay people enough to afford stuff.  You don't sell stuff, then you make less moneys.  Then you justify paying people less, then they can afford less.

Here's a hint fir the "job creators", it works the other way too, which is nice.
 
2013-08-21 09:24:57 AM  
Why is it every "I don't own a car" person I've ever known is always bumming rides off me and everybody else?
 
2013-08-21 09:27:45 AM  

Sybarite: Why is it every "I don't own a car" person I've ever known is always bumming rides off me and everybody else?


I think an optimal economic situation from a personal standpoint can be achieved by getting others to pay as many of your costs as you possibly can.
 
2013-08-21 09:28:02 AM  
"Jebediah, you reckon you got a notion why all the young-uns 'taint riding horses as much as we used to when we were knee high to a grasshopper?"
"Well, Levi, I've been cypherin' on this for a spell, and I think that horses just don't have names the youngsters like."
""Supposin' we should rustle up some of the boys and come up with some names that kids will cotton to, like 'Tyler' or 'Cody'?"
"Supposin'..."
 
2013-08-21 10:19:56 AM  
I blame feet.
 
2013-08-21 10:24:01 AM  

SurfaceTension: It's nice to see consumerism starting a decline.

/won't last


Nothing in the article says they're not consuming. They're spending their "excess money"  (word of advice: never say where government might hear you that you consider any of your money "excess") going out to eat, to concerts, on smart phones, etc. They're just consuming things in a different mix than in the past.
 
2013-08-21 10:25:11 AM  

EvilEgg: This what happens when you don't pay people enough to afford stuff.  You don't sell stuff, then you make less moneys.  Then you justify paying people less, then they can afford less.

Here's a hint fir the "job creators", it works the other way too, which is nice.


Rapmaster2000: Sybarite: Why is it every "I don't own a car" person I've ever known is always bumming rides off me and everybody else?

I think an optimal economic situation from a personal standpoint can be achieved by getting others to pay as many of your costs as you possibly can.


Most jobs millenials are stuck with are crappy minimum wage jobs and not even full time. If you have an education, you are typically stuck with a massive amount of debt and forced to be underemployed in a job way below your education level, so you can't make it ahead in that respect because you have debt payments to make too.

Something has to break, and the first is the cars. The article is written like a gosh darn, look at those positive kids making the best of life. Every single one of them would own a car if it was affordable, but it's not. That article should be the most depressing thing for business, congress, and the middle class to read, but instead everyone is just saying "you silly kids."

I am really starting to despise our country. But it's alright, all they are doing is breeding far left radicals in the lowest generation who don't believe in capitalist societies. Their time will end.
 
2013-08-21 10:30:10 AM  
Isn't this the third time this article (or an article of the same type) has been greenlit?
 
2013-08-21 10:30:55 AM  
Well duh. The Millennial hipsters don't need cars because they won't get a farking job.
 
2013-08-21 10:32:29 AM  
Jalopnik made an article on this. It's not that people don't want cars, it's because they can't afford them and driving in big cities sucks really badly.
 
2013-08-21 10:36:53 AM  

jjorsett: SurfaceTension: It's nice to see consumerism starting a decline.

/won't last

Nothing in the article says they're not consuming. They're spending their "excess money"  (word of advice: never say where government might hear you that you consider any of your money "excess") going out to eat, to concerts, on smart phones, etc. They're just consuming things in a different mix than in the past.


Good point. But the comments make it sound like they don't value "stuff" the way previous generations do.

But to build on what you said, they also don't have homes from which they're cashing out $10,000s or more.
 
2013-08-21 10:38:40 AM  

Eps05: Jalopnik made an article on this. It's not that people don't want cars, it's because they can't afford them and driving in big cities sucks really badly.


Well, no shiat. Thing is, if you're driving in a big city, either you or the city have done something terribly wrong and stupid.
 
2013-08-21 10:41:44 AM  

Jaws_Victim: Most jobs millenials are stuck with are crappy minimum wage jobs and not even full time. If you have an education, you are typically stuck with a massive amount of debt and forced to be underemployed in a job way below your education level, so you can't make it ahead in that respect because you have debt payments to make too.


This is my situation.  And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old.  But, do I buy new and have a high car payment to go along with my high student loans, or do I buy used?
 
2013-08-21 10:54:07 AM  
Maybe retailers should lobby 0bama to force young people to buy their products, like he did with 0bamacare.
 
2013-08-21 10:54:16 AM  

raerae1980: This is my situation. And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old. But, do I buy new and have a high car payment to go along with my high student loans, or do I buy used?


Mine was over 100,000 when I bought it. Take some personal advice from a Gen Y'er; keep fixing it for a while. I finally gave up my Neon a few months ago, it was 18. Yeah, it sucks, yeah, you're going to lose a lot of weekends. And yes, some people, mostly those who are doing better than you, are going to wonder why you're fixing it. Keep the engine running. When the body goes to crap, dump it. You'll get a LOT of experience with cars and can actually negotiate a price when you walk on a lot or onto someone's driveway.

Oh, and never buy new. New cars are for suckers or well-to-do.
 
2013-08-21 10:57:59 AM  
I don't think the car addiction will go quietly outside about 10 major cities.

I grew up in a town of ~10,000.  Big enough for a Walmart, small enough for Walmart to pretty much kill everything else.  The average person didn't leave that small town in any given week.   It was impossible to be in town and more than 3 miles from any other point in that town.  No hills and weather was okay 80% of the time (Kansas).

And everyone drives everywhere.  You're basically a space alien if you walk/bike.  The McDonald's manager won't hire you unless you have a car.  Very few families that don't support at least one car per person 16-or-older.  Literally tens of millions of vehicle-miles are driven per year, by just those 10,000 residents, just bopping between destinations within a 3 mile diameter.  I understand that you really do need a car to get out of town, or maybe on bad-weather days.  But, seriously... it's a religion.

Yes, the millennial car-aversion a real trend... among 5% of the population.  But, gas fumes and acceleration are more powerfully addictive than these articles give credit for.
 
2013-08-21 11:01:32 AM  
It's not "disposable income" if you don't have any.

Here's what's really happening:
1) Cars (new and used) are WAY more expensive now (relative to income) than they were even 10 years ago.  A cheapo car (Hyundai, Kia) used to be maybe $160/month payment.  Now it's $300/month if you're buying.
2) Monthly car-payments conflict with monthly student-loan payments
3) Young people are crushed under student-loan debt, and have no ability to take on additional costs.
 
2013-08-21 11:02:53 AM  

Sybarite: Why is it every "I don't own a car" person I've ever known is always bumming rides off me and everybody else?


I've gone without a car now for a few months as it was done in by a hit and in the middle of the night.  Other than being able to buy all my groceries for the month in one go, I don't really miss it.  The public transportation system in my town is better than I originally thought it was.
 
2013-08-21 11:03:50 AM  

raerae1980: Jaws_Victim: Most jobs millenials are stuck with are crappy minimum wage jobs and not even full time. If you have an education, you are typically stuck with a massive amount of debt and forced to be underemployed in a job way below your education level, so you can't make it ahead in that respect because you have debt payments to make too.

This is my situation.  And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old.  But, do I buy new and have a high car payment to go along with my high student loans, or do I buy used?


Used.  Always buy used.  Get a car that is only a year or two old.  You'll still have most of the life of the car left, but won't have to take the value hit that a new car takes in that first year.
 
2013-08-21 11:05:42 AM  

raerae1980: And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old.


Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?  I'd buy in in a few cases, but what kind of car?  Seriously, I'd expect some of the better (boring... i.e., Corolla) cars to double both those numbers with reasonable reliability.
 
2013-08-21 11:06:57 AM  

Lawnchair: Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?  I'd buy in in a few cases, but what kind of car?  Seriously, I'd expect some of the better (boring... i.e., Corolla) cars to double both those numbers with reasonable reliability.


I hope to buy my first new car soon.

/yes, I'm over 40.
 
2013-08-21 11:09:54 AM  

Jaws_Victim: But it's alright, all they are doing is breeding far left radicals in the lowest generation who don't believe in capitalist societies. Their time will end.


Just like in the 60's!  Oh, wait...
 
2013-08-21 11:12:13 AM  

flak attack: Used. Always buy used. Get a car that is only a year or two old. You'll still have most of the life of the car left, but won't have to take the value hit that a new car takes in that first year.


Yeah, I've looked into used and I'm not very happy with what I've seen.  And I don't want to buy an older car that already has 60K miles on it.   I live in L.A., and I have a long commute to work (60 miles round trip).

Lawnchair: Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?


My car is a 2002 Chevy Cavalier.
 
2013-08-21 11:12:26 AM  
We going to have this thread every week now?  There's only so many funny comments I can come up with to inflame the millennials.
 
2013-08-21 11:17:03 AM  

basemetal: We going to have this thread every week now?  There's only so many funny comments I can come up with to inflame the millennials.


It doesn't take much.  The bonus is that their attention spans are so short you can recycle your comments every month or so.
 
2013-08-21 11:22:04 AM  

rubi_con_man: Lawnchair: Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?  I'd buy in in a few cases, but what kind of car?  Seriously, I'd expect some of the better (boring... i.e., Corolla) cars to double both those numbers with reasonable reliability.

I hope to buy my first new car soon.

/yes, I'm over 40.


Nothing to be ashamed of. I've never had a new car and don't think i ever would want to, unless I make enough money at some point that I wouldn't care about wasting a good chunk.
 
2013-08-21 11:22:32 AM  
I always laugh at people who think you don't need cars.

Try living somewhere that isn't NYC, LA or any other Major city without the ability to get from point A to point B.
 
2013-08-21 11:23:47 AM  

Mentat: Jaws_Victim: But it's alright, all they are doing is breeding far left radicals in the lowest generation who don't believe in capitalist societies. Their time will end.

Just like in the 60's!  Oh, wait...


Maybe. Hippy counter culture was all about drugs and rage against the man. Millennials, while those do exist in their group, would like to have good paying jobs and be functional members of society, but can't because of incredibly low wages in a time of record high corporate profits.
 
2013-08-21 11:24:19 AM  
In the article, they have money but they prefer to spend it on things like fancy dinners and show tickets and whatnot.  They're so enamored with the "now" and "enjoying the moment" that they have no idea how to save.  They have to have the latest phone instead of just using the one they have that works fine.  They have to eat the $25 dinner instead of the $7 dinner.  They have to go to that $100 (after tickets and drinks) concert instead of hanging out with friends.  The people from the article sound like irresponsible people.  There are plenty who simply can't afford cars and there are plenty of places that make affording a car difficult.

It's just not news.
 
2013-08-21 11:26:41 AM  

raerae1980: Lawnchair: Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?

My car is a 2002 Chevy Cavalier.


I'm not going to pretend that that's a great car or anything, because it's not.  But (and again, this is totally a perspective thing) there are thousands of 1997 Cavs with 50k miles on your car, not only still cruising down the road, but being sold for actual money in used car lots.  If you have a particular problem ("it's burning oil"), then, sure.  If you've just got the "I'm bored with my girl/boyfriend"-level itch, swap it around for something a little newer.  I wish there weren't huge taxes/fees involved in just trading cars because you're bored with one.
 
2013-08-21 11:31:46 AM  
I've bought 2 new cars in the past 3 years, but they're Subarus that are supposed to last 200k+ miles, and they're a blast to drive.  I can't see myself getting tired of that car.  Maintenance is super easy, parts are cheap, and DIY work is well documented on sites like NASIOC.   Aside from getting in an accident and it being totaled out, I don't see replacing these cars for at least 15 years.

But as far as buying gadgets and stuff?   I'm really not into it like a lot of tech sites say I should.  Sure the tech is cool, but I don't need a newer faster phone every 6 months, I don't need a color, backlit e-reader, I don't need HUD at all times in my life, I don't need cable TV, I don't need to go to the movies, and I don't need to pay for DLC, or buy games on the Steam sale.

I actually find myself getting outdoors more and more and consuming a lot less media.  Or hanging out at people's houses drinking and playing CAH.
 
2013-08-21 11:32:20 AM  

Explodo: In the article, they have money but they prefer to spend it on things like fancy dinners and show tickets and whatnot.  They're so enamored with the "now" and "enjoying the moment" that they have no idea how to save.  They have to have the latest phone instead of just using the one they have that works fine.  They have to eat the $25 dinner instead of the $7 dinner.  They have to go to that $100 (after tickets and drinks) concert instead of hanging out with friends.  The people from the article sound like irresponsible people.  There are plenty who simply can't afford cars and there are plenty of places that make affording a car difficult.

It's just not news.


I wouldn't call the purchase of a depreciating asset to be an example of knowing how to save.
 
2013-08-21 11:36:21 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Explodo: In the article, they have money but they prefer to spend it on things like fancy dinners and show tickets and whatnot.  They're so enamored with the "now" and "enjoying the moment" that they have no idea how to save.  They have to have the latest phone instead of just using the one they have that works fine.  They have to eat the $25 dinner instead of the $7 dinner.  They have to go to that $100 (after tickets and drinks) concert instead of hanging out with friends.  The people from the article sound like irresponsible people.  There are plenty who simply can't afford cars and there are plenty of places that make affording a car difficult.

It's just not news.

I wouldn't call the purchase of a depreciating asset to be an example of knowing how to save.


The point was more that you have to save to buy it, not the death by 1000 cuts of buying new phones, expensive food, and nights out.
 
2013-08-21 11:36:46 AM  

raerae1980: flak attack: Used. Always buy used. Get a car that is only a year or two old. You'll still have most of the life of the car left, but won't have to take the value hit that a new car takes in that first year.

Yeah, I've looked into used and I'm not very happy with what I've seen.  And I don't want to buy an older car that already has 60K miles on it.   I live in L.A., and I have a long commute to work (60 miles round trip).

Lawnchair: Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?

My car is a 2002 Chevy Cavalier.


My first car was an 02 Cavalier.   I had about 110K miles on it by 09.   Bought it used for 5K in 05.   Some Maryland driver totaled it(thanks asshole) and I got about triple what the car was worth from his insurance.

I hated that car, slow as shiat, it was silver so noone saw it in traffic, and the air conditioner seized up and would cause the car to surge when sitting in traffic.   The repair costs just didn't justify keeping the car.

i21.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-21 11:44:33 AM  
Explodo:
The point was more that you have to save to buy it, not the death by 1000 cuts of buying new phones, expensive food, and nights out.

If you don't have to save for it, why would you?  I'm not going to chastise kids for frittering their disposable income on personal enjoyment when millions fritter it on owning and maintaining a car.  Both that fancy dinner and that Toyota are sunk costs.

They don't need to blow their money on cars so they blow it on something else.  This is not a problem to me.
 
2013-08-21 11:47:23 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Explodo:
The point was more that you have to save to buy it, not the death by 1000 cuts of buying new phones, expensive food, and nights out.

If you don't have to save for it, why would you?  I'm not going to chastise kids for frittering their disposable income on personal enjoyment when millions fritter it on owning and maintaining a car.  Both that fancy dinner and that Toyota are sunk costs.

They don't need to blow their money on cars so they blow it on something else.  This is not a problem to me.


My point wasn't that they need to buy cars.  My point was that they just don't save.
 
2013-08-21 12:00:13 PM  

ajgeek: Oh, and never buy new. New cars are for suckers or well-to-do.


That's what I told my roomie. She was looking at a $23,000 Toyota. The payments they offered her was $469 for 72 months. I told her that was insane...especially if I'm co-signing for her. She would've ended up paying $10,768 in interest, just for the privilege of driving something new.

Fortunately, our 17 year old foster daughter doesn't even have her license, yet. Hasn't really been interested in it until just recently. Figure it has something to do with her being a senior this year.
 
2013-08-21 12:01:12 PM  

Explodo: Rapmaster2000: Explodo:
The point was more that you have to save to buy it, not the death by 1000 cuts of buying new phones, expensive food, and nights out.

If you don't have to save for it, why would you?  I'm not going to chastise kids for frittering their disposable income on personal enjoyment when millions fritter it on owning and maintaining a car.  Both that fancy dinner and that Toyota are sunk costs.

They don't need to blow their money on cars so they blow it on something else.  This is not a problem to me.

My point wasn't that they need to buy cars.  My point was that they just don't save.


What generation saves in the U.S.?  The last generation to save was the WWII generation.  No one saves money.  Why are you blaming these guys?
 
2013-08-21 12:07:07 PM  

PacManDreaming: ajgeek: Oh, and never buy new. New cars are for suckers or well-to-do.

That's what I told my roomie. She was looking at a $23,000 Toyota. The payments they offered her was $469 for 72 months. I told her that was insane...especially if I'm co-signing for her. She would've ended up paying $10,768 in interest, just for the privilege of driving something new.

Fortunately, our 17 year old foster daughter doesn't even have her license, yet. Hasn't really been interested in it until just recently. Figure it has something to do with her being a senior this year.


I bought both of mine below invoice, I could sell them back to the dealer at 90% purchase price thanks to their high demand right now.  Not only that but my total interest payment is only going to be like $500 over the course of the loan.
 
2013-08-21 12:14:32 PM  
The problem is that all the "wealth" is concentrated in retirement accounts managed by wall street bankers who insist that someday those savings will be useful for boomer retirements. All those resources tied up in things they're expecting the next generation to buy. But there's no money for the grandkids to buy those up with. By 2020 I expect at least one more massive "market correction" wiping out another chunk of 401k value, including a bunch of those bonds you thought were safe going up in smoke and taking another bond insurer with it.

But hey, at least we have lots of people in that Millennial classification. Japan and Germany are really short on that demographic.
 
2013-08-21 12:17:38 PM  

Explodo: In the article, they have money but they prefer to spend it on things like fancy dinners and show tickets and whatnot.  They're so enamored with the "now" and "enjoying the moment" that they have no idea how to save.  They have to have the latest phone instead of just using the one they have that works fine.  They have to eat the $25 dinner instead of the $7 dinner.  They have to go to that $100 (after tickets and drinks) concert instead of hanging out with friends.  The people from the article sound like irresponsible people.  There are plenty who simply can't afford cars and there are plenty of places that make affording a car difficult.

It's just not news.


You just perfectly described my brother.  He has a car, but doesn't understand the concept of "maintenance".  He routinely goes 28,000 miles or more between oil changes.  He said, and I quote him "Why should I pay to have someone rotate the tires.  They rotate every time I drive."  He goes through tires on his 2001 Ford Escape faster than I do with tires on my Chrysler Town and Country.  And I drive way more miles per week than he does.

He has driven 4 cars into the ground with his style of driving.
 
2013-08-21 12:24:22 PM  

Warmachine999: Explodo: In the article, they have money but they prefer to spend it on things like fancy dinners and show tickets and whatnot.  They're so enamored with the "now" and "enjoying the moment" that they have no idea how to save.  They have to have the latest phone instead of just using the one they have that works fine.  They have to eat the $25 dinner instead of the $7 dinner.  They have to go to that $100 (after tickets and drinks) concert instead of hanging out with friends.  The people from the article sound like irresponsible people.  There are plenty who simply can't afford cars and there are plenty of places that make affording a car difficult.

It's just not news.

You just perfectly described my brother.  He has a car, but doesn't understand the concept of "maintenance".  He routinely goes 28,000 miles or more between oil changes.  He said, and I quote him "Why should I pay to have someone rotate the tires.  They rotate every time I drive."  He goes through tires on his 2001 Ford Escape faster than I do with tires on my Chrysler Town and Country.  And I drive way more miles per week than he does.

He has driven 4 cars into the ground with his style of driving.


Does he live in apartment or condo with an HOA?

A lot of those places forbid you from working on your car.  The townhouse I had in NoVA forbade any kind of auto-work, I did it anyways but having to walk 200 ft from my car to my house if I needed another tool or to look something up online really kind of sucked.
 
2013-08-21 12:38:04 PM  

flak attack: raerae1980: Jaws_Victim: Most jobs millenials are stuck with are crappy minimum wage jobs and not even full time. If you have an education, you are typically stuck with a massive amount of debt and forced to be underemployed in a job way below your education level, so you can't make it ahead in that respect because you have debt payments to make too.

This is my situation.  And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old.  But, do I buy new and have a high car payment to go along with my high student loans, or do I buy used?

Used.  Always buy used.  Get a car that is only a year or two old.  You'll still have most of the life of the car left, but won't have to take the value hit that a new car takes in that first year.


Depends.  If you are buying a American or German vehicle, yeah.  But Toyotas and Hondas keep their value so much that the discount you get on a one or two year old model is less than you would think.  My eight year old Scion is still worth almost 50% of what it originally cost new.
 
2013-08-21 12:42:23 PM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Explodo: Rapmaster2000: Explodo:
The point was more that you have to save to buy it, not the death by 1000 cuts of buying new phones, expensive food, and nights out.

If you don't have to save for it, why would you?  I'm not going to chastise kids for frittering their disposable income on personal enjoyment when millions fritter it on owning and maintaining a car.  Both that fancy dinner and that Toyota are sunk costs.

They don't need to blow their money on cars so they blow it on something else.  This is not a problem to me.

My point wasn't that they need to buy cars.  My point was that they just don't save.

What generation saves in the U.S.?  The last generation to save was the WWII generation.  No one saves money.  Why are you blaming these guys?


With interest rates as low as they are now, saving is fairly pointless and usually a bad financial deal, frankly.  A standard saving account gives you maybe 1% interest, if you are lucky.  CDs and the like aren't all that much better.  You can always buy stocks or property, but you can lose money on those as well as gain.
 
2013-08-21 12:50:02 PM  

Lawnchair: raerae1980: And I need a new(er) car as mine is hitting 100,000 miles soon and is over 10 years old.

Seriously, 10/100k is the limit?  I'd buy in in a few cases, but what kind of car?  Seriously, I'd expect some of the better (boring... i.e., Corolla) cars to double both those numbers with reasonable reliability.



Yep.  My car is 13 years old and has 142,000 miles on it and it runs like it's brand spankin' new.  It'll easily go another 100,000 miles.  I'm sure of it.  I have zero intention of getting another car for at least two more years.

/Of course, I make maintain it well.
//You get what you put into it
 
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