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(Orlando Sentinel)   Fifteen-year-old boy who murdered two people with a handgun got the weapon from his father, who took him gun shopping and let him pick out which gun he wanted. Naturally police have arrested the father   (orlandosentinel.com) divider line 318
    More: Florida, handguns, Osceola County  
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10132 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2013 at 9:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-20 09:38:03 PM  

scottydoesntknow: FrancoFile: Nice mug shots.  All that group needs is a pit bull and they'd be the 21st century meth-head version of Scooby Doo.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 230x292]

???


A pit bull.  Not THE pit bull.
 
2013-08-20 09:38:09 PM  
Clearly the gun's fault.
 
2013-08-20 09:38:48 PM  
Still nothing on FARK about the teens that shot the jogger because they were bored. And NO. this guy should not have been arrested. the kid should have.
 
2013-08-20 09:39:51 PM  
If your kid claims to be having trouble with other people around town, and your apparently only solution is to buy him a carbine and 100 rounds, then I question both your parenting and conflict-resolution skills.

Also, your kid might be a homicidal psychopath. You might want to look into that.
 
2013-08-20 09:39:56 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun owners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a gun, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.


And how would you find out who that weapon belonged to? That might involve some form of registration and we all know that while our hobbyist friends are terribly keen on protecting their rights, many go soft when it comes to accepting any responsibility or accountability.
 
2013-08-20 09:40:18 PM  
OhioUGrad: I'm going to become a hobbit.

/maybe just invest in a bullet proof vest


it's called Mithril, and I doubt you have enough dough.
 
2013-08-20 09:42:46 PM  
If your kid claims to be having trouble with people around town, and your apparently only solution is to take him out and buy him a carbine and 100 rounds, then you might need to work on both your parenting and conflict resolution skills. Also, your kid might be a homicidal psychopath. You might want to check into that.
 
2013-08-20 09:42:46 PM  

sheep snorter: Dang it 'Murica. What happened to you that bored white kids keep going about and killing people because killing relieves the boredom.

Oh yea right.....
[i.imgur.com image 570x713]


An Australian baseball player out for a jog in an Oklahoma neighborhood was shot and killed by three "bored" teenagers who decided to kill someone for fun, police said.

Silly white kids.
 
2013-08-20 09:43:29 PM  

Elegy: LordJiro: TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun owners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a gun, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.

This, even if your weapon is stolen. Unless a LOT of effort was made by the thief (like, stealing the whole gun safe), a stolen gun means you neglected your responsibilities as a gun owner.

So in this case, the guy kept letting his son walk with the weapon, I agree.

But what about me? My wife and I have no kids. No reason to have a gun safe, we both know how to use them.

You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?


Yeah, I admit I kinda went a bit extreme. I'd say "Locking your doors, with the gun out of sight" would be safe enough, unless you live in a REALLY shiatty neighborhood.
 
2013-08-20 09:44:33 PM  

WTFDYW: Still nothing on FARK about the teens that shot the jogger because they were bored. And NO. this guy should not have been arrested. the kid should have.


You're off you meds. I'm very pro-Second Amendment and this father knowingly armed his minor
son with full - or at least constructive - knowledge that the kid intended to use it on others. This goes beyond mere bad parenting.
 
2013-08-20 09:45:27 PM  

MFAWG: I was assured in another thread that first grade is a good time to teach kids about firearms. That means this young man would have 8 to 10 years of experience, which should be plenty.


I've been a police officer and a owner of both handguns and rifles (I currently don't own any firearms as I sold them all when I moved to a nicer area).  I think it's ok to teach a kid about firearms (that they're dangerous, not to point a gun at a person, it's not a toy, etc).  My son watched me clean my handguns on the kitchen table when he was around 12.  Showed him how to handle a weapon (how to check if it's empty, clear it before handing it to someone else, etc)...but even then, I didn't take him shooting.

Personally, I don't think it's ok to take a first grader shooting a handgun.  I always kept my handguns locked up in a safe or with a trigger lock (I haven't hunted since before he was born so I haven't owned a rifle in more than 20 years).  I don't have a problem with parents taking their kids hunting around 12 or so...depending upon the maturity of the kid...it can be a cool bonding experience.  My son wasn't especially responsible (at least to my liking) and I stopped hunting before he was born.  As a result, I didn't take him target shooting with a handgun until he was a junior in high school (we rented).  He was brought up with a healthy respect for weapons.  Now he's 19 and in the Navy...he's definitely responsible (and a good shot).

I think what the father did in this case was recklessly irresponsible...his reckless disregard led to the murder of 2 people.
 
2013-08-20 09:46:01 PM  

69gnarkill69: sheep snorter: Dang it 'Murica. What happened to you that bored white kids keep going about and killing people because killing relieves the boredom.

Oh yea right.....
[i.imgur.com image 570x713]

An Australian baseball player out for a jog in an Oklahoma neighborhood was shot and killed by three "bored" teenagers who decided to kill someone for fun, police said.

Silly white kids.


*that's* the part you focused on?

Go back to /b/.
 
2013-08-20 09:46:28 PM  

Elegy: You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?


If psychopaths like these broke into your house and stole your guns you wouldnt be around to be arrested the next day.
 
2013-08-20 09:46:54 PM  

Ishkur: I can't believe people still remember Lothar of the Hill People.

Isn't that skit like 25 years old? And it's not like it was a big hit like Sprockets, Toonces or Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

/and yes, father and son should be charged
//jesus, the kid treated it like a video game. Shot and killed someone on the way to the bus stop. Father responded by taking the gun away. Kid stole it back and killed someone else a month later. He's a farking psychopath.


And you know somebody will blame video games for it. Oh well what can you do? Ban the games!...ban the guns!...ban everything! Just the same old stuff spewing back and forth.
 
2013-08-20 09:47:47 PM  

WTFDYW: Still nothing on FARK about the teens that shot the jogger because they were bored. And NO. this guy should not have been arrested. the kid should have.


I took a peek at the Fox News comments just before the arraignment.

I'll take a pass on all those threads.
 
2013-08-20 09:47:48 PM  
And that surprises you?
 
2013-08-20 09:48:47 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun

carowners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a guncar, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.

If you think my changes sound ridiculous, that's the way Florida law is.  It's called a "dangerous instrument doctrine".  If you own something dangerous -- gun, car, dog, blender, stairs -- you are responsible at all times for who uses it and how.
 
2013-08-20 09:49:14 PM  

MFAWG: slayer199: They absolutely should charge the father.  He KNEW the kid was sneaking out with the gun and did NOT lock the gun in a gun safe or sell the gun.  It's one thing to teach your kid gun safety and go shooting with them...it's completely irresponsible to let a 15 year-old have unfettered access to a gun...especially AFTER he KNEW the kid was up to no good with it.  IMHO, The dad should be charged with manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide and not the lesser felony charges he's been charged with.

I was assured in another thread that first grade is a good time to teach kids about firearms. That means this young man would have 8 to 10 years of experience, which should be plenty.


Hey buddy, calling in that Zimmerman bet. I'd like my month of TF now.
 
2013-08-20 09:49:30 PM  

LowbrowDeluxe: 69gnarkill69: sheep snorter: Dang it 'Murica. What happened to you that bored white kids keep going about and killing people because killing relieves the boredom.

Oh yea right.....
[i.imgur.com image 570x713]

An Australian baseball player out for a jog in an Oklahoma neighborhood was shot and killed by three "bored" teenagers who decided to kill someone for fun, police said.

Silly white kids.

*that's* the part you focused on?

Go back to /b/.


dafuq you going on about?
 
2013-08-20 09:49:42 PM  
Hey trollmitter:  Screw you and screw the trollmin who approved this trollline.
 
2013-08-20 09:50:33 PM  
The boy was just standing his ground.
 
2013-08-20 09:50:52 PM  

b0rg9: Shot someone walking to the bus stop just for "fun"?

If this isn't what the death penalty is for I don't know what it is for.



Two teens charged with murdering Melbourne baseball player Chris Lane

Seems there's a lot of that going around these days.
 
2013-08-20 09:51:20 PM  

freetomato: Am I supposed to be outraged? My reaction:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 180x120]


Bears/grumpycats repeating.

/subby really thought there is something wrong or unusual about this?
 
IP
2013-08-20 09:52:19 PM  
[imokaywiththis.jpg]
 
2013-08-20 09:54:41 PM  

Tellingthem: And you know somebody will blame video games for it. Oh well what can you do? Ban the games!...ban the guns!...ban everything! Just the same old stuff spewing back and forth.


I'm not blaming video games nor am I saying this kid got the idea from playing video games (who knows if he even plays video games). I'm just noting the similarities: This specific kid had such an appalling disregard for firearms and their lethal consequences that he literally went out and killed people in the middle of the farking street, GTA style. Almost as if expecting them to pop right back up and re-spawn with a health boost or something.

I've never heard of any gun crime like that before. This kid is seriously sick in the head.
 
2013-08-20 09:54:58 PM  

Amos Quito: b0rg9: Shot someone walking to the bus stop just for "fun"?

If this isn't what the death penalty is for I don't know what it is for.


Two teens charged with murdering Melbourne baseball player Chris Lane

Seems there's a lot of that going around these days.


Three teenaged wastes of carbon.
 
2013-08-20 09:54:59 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: And I thought all the gun nuts were assuring us that people didn't buy assault rifles to hunt and kill other people.


The Hi-Point Carbine doesn't qualify as an assault rifle under any definition of the term unless "scary & black" is the new definition for assault rifle.

Anywho, the dad should be arrested just for getting a Hi-point.
 
2013-08-20 09:55:02 PM  

Amos Quito: b0rg9: Shot someone walking to the bus stop just for "fun"?

If this isn't what the death penalty is for I don't know what it is for.


Two teens charged with murdering Melbourne baseball player Chris Lane

Seems there's a lot of that going around these days.


was just looking to see if that was on here, seems not
 
2013-08-20 09:55:42 PM  

Elegy: But what about me? My wife and I have no kids. No reason to have a gun safe, we both know how to use them.

You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?


Get a gun safe, you irresponsible POS.  If anyone gets your gun and hurts someone with it, you should be charged as if you had just handed it to them to commit the crime.  Because that is what you did by not securing it in a way where anyone able to pry open a door or window could not get at it.
 
2013-08-20 09:56:06 PM  
weird. as i read this trolltastic, bottom-of-the-barrel headline, ahmad jamal's 'poinciana' started from my speakers.

floridiancidence? i think not.
 
2013-08-20 09:56:54 PM  
'Sounds about right.
 
2013-08-20 09:57:20 PM  

Elegy: MFAWG: slayer199: They absolutely should charge the father.  He KNEW the kid was sneaking out with the gun and did NOT lock the gun in a gun safe or sell the gun.  It's one thing to teach your kid gun safety and go shooting with them...it's completely irresponsible to let a 15 year-old have unfettered access to a gun...especially AFTER he KNEW the kid was up to no good with it.  IMHO, The dad should be charged with manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide and not the lesser felony charges he's been charged with.

I was assured in another thread that first grade is a good time to teach kids about firearms. That means this young man would have 8 to 10 years of experience, which should be plenty.

Hey buddy, calling in that Zimmerman bet. I'd like my month of TF now.



LOL!

Got a link? I'd love to see the thread.
 
2013-08-20 09:57:49 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: We should start doing the same to the "parents" of kids who accidentally kill themselves with guns they find laying around.


They DO,  have an "un-secured" firearm about and a minor gets it you are DOOOOOOOMED in California.  I do agree reasonable means should be taken to secure a weapon, a gun safe, trigger lock, there are so many easy ways, and I can get to my loaded but trigger locked revolver in a very reasonable few seconds...
 
2013-08-20 09:57:53 PM  
That gun is like the lowered Honda Civic of guns.
 
2013-08-20 09:58:20 PM  
No one under 18 is accountable for their own actions, everybody knows that.  This poor innocent child was clearly coerced and taken advantage of by someone in a position of ultimate authority over him, such as a dance instructor or a substitute art teacher.  The child's brain is still developing, there's no way he understood the consequences of his actions.  Let the little scamp run along but tell him to be on time for his counseling appointment so we can help him through the pain others have caused him.
 
2013-08-20 09:59:10 PM  

WTFDYW: And NO. this guy should not have been arrested. the kid should have.


You did see the kids mugshots, didn't you?
 
2013-08-20 10:00:01 PM  

gadian: Elegy: But what about me? My wife and I have no kids. No reason to have a gun safe, we both know how to use them.

You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?

Get a gun safe, you irresponsible POS.  If anyone gets your gun and hurts someone with it, you should be charged as if you had just handed it to them to commit the crime.  Because that is what you did by not securing it in a way where anyone able to pry open a door or window could not get at it.


Same goes for cars that are stolen and then used in a crime?
 
2013-08-20 10:00:45 PM  
Good. I'm all for gun rights, but I'm more in favor of parenting.
 
2013-08-20 10:01:03 PM  
Death sentence for the kid, 10-20 years for dad.
 
2013-08-20 10:01:20 PM  

Ishkur: Tellingthem: And you know somebody will blame video games for it. Oh well what can you do? Ban the games!...ban the guns!...ban everything! Just the same old stuff spewing back and forth.

I'm not blaming video games nor am I saying this kid got the idea from playing video games (who knows if he even plays video games). I'm just noting the similarities: This specific kid had such an appalling disregard for firearms and their lethal consequences that he literally went out and killed people in the middle of the farking street, GTA style. Almost as if expecting them to pop right back up and re-spawn with a health boost or something.

I've never heard of any gun crime like that before. This kid is seriously sick in the head.


I bet it was movies more than anything.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-20 10:01:47 PM  

LordJiro: Elegy: LordJiro: TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun owners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a gun, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.

This, even if your weapon is stolen. Unless a LOT of effort was made by the thief (like, stealing the whole gun safe), a stolen gun means you neglected your responsibilities as a gun owner.

So in this case, the guy kept letting his son walk with the weapon, I agree.

But what about me? My wife and I have no kids. No reason to have a gun safe, we both know how to use them.

You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?

Yeah, I admit I kinda went a bit extreme. I'd say "Locking your doors, with the gun out of sight" would be safe enough, unless you live in a REALLY shiatty neighborhood.


Black letter law says that if he secured the house, as the 'sole occupant', he is indemnified. Now 'sole occupant' can apply to a multi-family residence (apartment building) providing that separate locks exist for each occupant to secure their own space. At that point, the weapon does need to be in their own 'secured space' for the indemnity.

Also, I know people that are farmers. They possess ammonium-nitrate and diesel fuel (in large quantities) on their property. Are you going to blame them if someone steals a bunch to make a fertilizer bomb while they're at a wedding?

You can't hold someone responsible for the actions of a random person. The only reason dad is on the hook here is he didn't secure the weapon from a minor in his household. He has a parental responsibility for his child.
 
2013-08-20 10:02:49 PM  

Ishkur: Tellingthem: And you know somebody will blame video games for it. Oh well what can you do? Ban the games!...ban the guns!...ban everything! Just the same old stuff spewing back and forth.

I'm not blaming video games nor am I saying this kid got the idea from playing video games (who knows if he even plays video games). I'm just noting the similarities: This specific kid had such an appalling disregard for firearms and their lethal consequences that he literally went out and killed people in the middle of the farking street, GTA style. Almost as if expecting them to pop right back up and re-spawn with a health boost or something.

I've never heard of any gun crime like that before. This kid is seriously sick in the head.


I never said you did (maybe it just sounded that way, but it wasn't intentional). Just mentioning that every time something like this happens some yahoo will go on tv and blame video games for it.
 
2013-08-20 10:03:18 PM  

slayer199: MFAWG: I was assured in another thread that first grade is a good time to teach kids about firearms. That means this young man would have 8 to 10 years of experience, which should be plenty.

I've been a police officer and a owner of both handguns and rifles (I currently don't own any firearms as I sold them all when I moved to a nicer area).  I think it's ok to teach a kid about firearms (that they're dangerous, not to point a gun at a person, it's not a toy, etc).  My son watched me clean my handguns on the kitchen table when he was around 12.  Showed him how to handle a weapon (how to check if it's empty, clear it before handing it to someone else, etc)...but even then, I didn't take him shooting.

Personally, I don't think it's ok to take a first grader shooting a handgun.  I always kept my handguns locked up in a safe or with a trigger lock (I haven't hunted since before he was born so I haven't owned a rifle in more than 20 years).  I don't have a problem with parents taking their kids hunting around 12 or so...depending upon the maturity of the kid...it can be a cool bonding experience.  My son wasn't especially responsible (at least to my liking) and I stopped hunting before he was born.  As a result, I didn't take him target shooting with a handgun until he was a junior in high school (we rented).  He was brought up with a healthy respect for weapons.  Now he's 19 and in the Navy...he's definitely responsible (and a good shot).

I think what the father did in this case was recklessly irresponsible...his reckless disregard led to the murder of 2 people.


Similar approach we took with our boy. He respects them and handles them carefully. My husband grew up a KY country boy, hunting from the time he was 9. I never touched a weapon till I joined the military. The range is fun and we have a decent gun safe-full that we take out for that purpose now and then. We started taking him with us when he was 16 or so. Our son is too educated to flash guns to impress his buddies but we still keep them locked up, except when we are on long road trips (we both have concealed carry permits). We have four dogs so any home invader is gonna pass right by our house. I do have a Sig P229 stashed where I can get to it, but the dogs are the best frontline deterrent. Bad guys don't like dogs. I really don't think I will ever fire it outside the range. I hope not at least. But if I do, it will be for a damn good reason.

OMG! A lefty who wears combat boots and owns guns!
 
2013-08-20 10:03:37 PM  

Archfeld: The My Little Pony Killer: We should start doing the same to the "parents" of kids who accidentally kill themselves with guns they find laying around.

They DO,  have an "un-secured" firearm about and a minor gets it you are DOOOOOOOMED in California.  I do agree reasonable means should be taken to secure a weapon, a gun safe, trigger lock, there are so many easy ways, and I can get to my loaded but trigger locked revolver in a very reasonable few seconds...


Good, We need that law up here in Washington.
 
2013-08-20 10:03:56 PM  

Headso: Amos Quito: b0rg9: Shot someone walking to the bus stop just for "fun"?

If this isn't what the death penalty is for I don't know what it is for.


Two teens charged with murdering Melbourne baseball player Chris Lane

Seems there's a lot of that going around these days.

was just looking to see if that was on here, seems not



I guess no one has submitted the story with a funny enough headline.
 
2013-08-20 10:04:02 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Googling around it appears this is what a Hi-Point .45 Carbine looks like:

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 800x311]

And I thought all the gun nuts were assuring us that people didn't buy assault rifles to hunt and kill other people.


sno man: what subby's handgun looks like:
[www.thefirearmblog.com image 800x310]


scottydoesntknow: An object for perspective would be nice.

[www.gunpundit.com image 850x483]


Are those bump fire stocks? I still cant believe those are generally legal... Looks like the same stock on all 3 of those pictures is that standard equipment? If it is, for farks sake i am pretty pro gun, but giving a 15 year old basically the equivalent of a submachine gun is a bad idea.

/also i think that dude is really tiny
//or that rhino next to his elbow is HUGE
 
2013-08-20 10:04:29 PM  

Elegy: LordJiro: TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun owners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a gun, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.

This, even if your weapon is stolen. Unless a LOT of effort was made by the thief (like, stealing the whole gun safe), a stolen gun means you neglected your responsibilities as a gun owner.

So in this case, the guy kept letting his son walk with the weapon, I agree.

But what about me? My wife and I have no kids. No reason to have a gun safe, we both know how to use them.

You would arrest me if someone broke into my house and stole my property? What if my door was locked? Is that safe enough for you?


Absolutely I would think you should bear some liability if your gun was used in a crime, even if it was stolen from your home, your vehicle, or taken from you while you were carrying concealed.  If that liability seems like too much for some people, maybe they will reconsider owning guns.  Depending on the circumstances I could see civil vs criminal penalties, but the threat of a weapon being stolen is reason enough to own a gun safe.  If you can't afford a gun safe, you can't afford a gun.

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: TuteTibiImperes: The father should absolutely be charged.  I'd go as far as to say that gun owners should be held liable for any crimes committed with their weapons.  If you're going to own a gun, you have the responsibility to protect it and keep it locked up so that miscreants can't access it.

And how would you find out who that weapon belonged to? That might involve some form of registration and we all know that while our hobbyist friends are terribly keen on protecting their rights, many go soft when it comes to accepting any responsibility or accountability.


We absolutely need a registry.  I'm confident that within ten years we'll have one.
 
2013-08-20 10:04:44 PM  

Ishkur: I can't believe people still remember Lothar of the Hill People.

Isn't that skit like 25 years old? And it's not like it was a big hit like Sprockets, Toonces or Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer.

/and yes, father and son should be charged
//jesus, the kid treated it like a video game. Shot and killed someone on the way to the bus stop. Father responded by taking the gun away. Kid stole it back and killed someone else a month later. He's a farking psychopath.


Sounds like another in the long line of "maligned responsible gun owner...until he wasn't."
 
2013-08-20 10:04:44 PM  

69gnarkill69: An Australian baseball player out for a jog in an Oklahoma neighborhood was shot and killed by three "bored" teenagers who decided to kill someone for fun, police said.


Fun stat:

Every American has a 1 in 500 chance of being shot in a given year. Not shot and killed, mind you. Just shot.
 
2013-08-20 10:05:02 PM  
When son #2 graduated from high school I got him an AK-47 (okay a Romanian stamped-receiver knockoff) and 1000 rounds of ammo. We had fun with that. He's not psycho, so I was never worried.
 
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