If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(KTVB Boise)   2 wolves killed 176 sheep in one night   (ktvb.com) divider line 337
    More: Sick, Idaho, asphyxiation, Grimm  
•       •       •

12634 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2013 at 6:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



337 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-20 06:21:58 PM
Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.
 
2013-08-20 06:22:33 PM
Better get Palin in a helicopter.  This is, actually, one problem she IS capable of solving.
 
2013-08-20 06:22:54 PM
Three wolves would have just howled at the moon.
 
2013-08-20 06:27:02 PM

meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.


They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.
 
2013-08-20 06:28:05 PM
But who's counting?
 
2013-08-20 06:29:49 PM
www.weirdspace.dk
I'm on it
 
2013-08-20 06:30:34 PM
Calling out a Farker is a no-no.
 
2013-08-20 06:31:44 PM
Nah, I was only joking, there were no wolves. Haha, got you all good.
 
2013-08-20 06:34:58 PM

r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.


That's a good call when dealing with wolf kill stories out of Idaho.
 
2013-08-20 06:43:21 PM
Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.
 
2013-08-20 06:45:12 PM
Maybe the wolves were trying to make themselves some sheeps clothing.
 
2013-08-20 06:46:14 PM
Yum.
 
2013-08-20 06:47:05 PM
And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.
 
2013-08-20 06:47:47 PM
i79.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-20 06:48:21 PM
militaryhumor.net
 
2013-08-20 06:49:33 PM
Time to get Michael Douglas on the case:
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-08-20 06:50:06 PM
I was gonna say they plunged off a cliff. What a sheep may look like plunging off a cliff. skip to 1:40 sfw
Link
 
2013-08-20 06:50:08 PM
Thanks Obama.
 
2013-08-20 06:51:12 PM

ybishop: [militaryhumor.net image 500x600]


That's obviously photosheeped
 
2013-08-20 06:51:33 PM
sick? More like massive BBQ and Christmas sweaters for the whole town
 
2013-08-20 06:52:06 PM

meat0918: r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.

That's a good call when dealing with wolf kill stories out of Idaho.


Yep.  When wolves were reintroduced, there was an odd reduction of accidental, medical, and neglect related deaths.  For some reason every sheep to die in the state died to a wolf attack.  Most odd.
 
2013-08-20 06:52:09 PM

dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.


Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.
 
2013-08-20 06:52:20 PM
Dumber animal: Sheep or chicken?
 
2013-08-20 06:52:57 PM

Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.


Too bad they couldn't buy some insurance to protect their business from such financial hits. Oh, wait.

Also, why the SICK tag, subby? Nature's cruel, but come on. It's not like the wolves conspired to suffocate 165 sheep for no good reason.

/How stupid do you have to be to asphyxiate yourself in a panic? Seems counter-evolutionary.
 
2013-08-20 06:53:22 PM
Screw the sheep.

thejerseycritic.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-20 06:54:11 PM
They misspelled nerve gas.
 
2013-08-20 06:54:27 PM

BadReligion: Maybe the wolves were trying to make themselves some sheeps clothing.


As far as I can tell, there's mutton wrong with that.
 
2013-08-20 06:54:50 PM

doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.


This. Why should we give a fark about some dumbshiat ranchers when they fail to properly protect their livestock?

I have no sympathy for ranchers blaming nature for their failures.
 
2013-08-20 06:54:57 PM
We're on it!

rattytime.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-20 06:54:59 PM

TrixieDelite: Screw the sheep.

[thejerseycritic.files.wordpress.com image 850x531]


Which one are ewe?
 
2013-08-20 06:56:29 PM

Satanic_Hamster: meat0918: r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.

That's a good call when dealing with wolf kill stories out of Idaho.

Yep.  When wolves were reintroduced, there was an odd reduction of accidental, medical, and neglect related deaths.  For some reason every sheep to die in the state died to a wolf attack.  Most odd.


Would ranchers try to pull the wool over our eyes?  I don't think they have the chops. They're just salt-of-the-earth types trying not to get fleeced.
 
2013-08-20 06:56:39 PM
State Director Todd Grimm?
I think he's telling a fairy tale.
 
2013-08-20 06:57:02 PM
It must have been werewolves.
 
2013-08-20 06:57:29 PM
So...lemme see if I understand this correctly...

Two wolves find a sheep herd of over two thousand sheep, and because they're in a pen, the wolves can get in, but the sheep can't get out and the two wolves have a grand night of chasing sheep.

So much so that the stupid things piled up on top of each other in a panic to get away and killed themselves in their stupidity, while the wolves kill about ten of them in their chasing.

Then cap the night off by eating a sheep and then disappearing into the night.

And through it all, the vigilant shepherds didn't take notice until about 1am and didn't get out there in time to stop the wolves' games and late night dinner.

And of course, it's not the shepherds' faults for being stupid and not watching over their sheep close enough when they're trapped in a pen that they can't escape...

It's the wolves' fault for being wolves and liking the taste of sheep and like chasing sheep.

In the wild, these two wolves would have undoubtedly found a herd of deer and probably managed to chase down the slowest of them and had a nice dinner.  Nature at work.  But, in this case, they found a bunch of trapped sheep and some stupid shepherds who are bad at their job.

Title should be "2 wolves killed 10 sheep; stupid shepherds kill 166 sheep"
 
2013-08-20 06:57:37 PM
I.... what? How is that even possible? The article did not make sense to me.
 
2013-08-20 06:57:47 PM

BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.


Yeah.  They're still on the lamb.
 
2013-08-20 06:57:59 PM

Mike Chewbacca: Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.

Too bad they couldn't buy some insurance to protect their business from such financial hits. Oh, wait.

Also, why the SICK tag, subby? Nature's cruel, but come on. It's not like the wolves conspired to suffocate 165 sheep for no good reason.

/How stupid do you have to be to asphyxiate yourself in a panic? Seems counter-evolutionary.


I'd imagine domestication farks with survival instincts somewhat.
 
2013-08-20 06:58:06 PM

kronicfeld: Calling out a Farker is a no-no.


Ha!
 
2013-08-20 06:58:08 PM
Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.
 
2013-08-20 06:58:09 PM

jayhawk88: Dumber animal: Sheep or chicken?


Sheep. By far. A sheep makes a chicken look like Alex the parrot.
 
2013-08-20 06:58:17 PM

Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.


Good. Hopefully the asshole who owned them goes out of business and has to take up another occupation where they're not responsible for others' lives.
 
2013-08-20 06:58:25 PM
Asphyxiation? Did the wolves strangle them?

Whatever...now the ranchers have a convenient excuse to go on a wolf-killing spree.

That's the idea, right?
 
2013-08-20 07:00:56 PM

LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.


Attack llamas.

i457.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-20 07:01:16 PM
'almost all of the sheep died from asphyxiation. About 10 died of bite wounds and one was partially consumed.'

Soooooo.....two wolves tried and succeeded in eating one sheep after tasting nearly a dozen, and the rest of the herd formed a deadly, wooly cheerleader pyramid that collapsed and they suffocated?

Let's review....

Lamb:Tasty (to both hominids and canids)
Lamb: Stupider than I thought, feel less bad about eating.
Wolf: Doing what it's supposed to do, and surprised by rancher butthurt wrongly applied to them.
Wolf: Kills coyotes, which are more of a problem that wolves.
Rancher: Butthurt, sad (girlfriend was one of the suffocated), and whiny.
Rancher: "Why!! Oh!! Why!!! Let's kill every wolf!! My poor Baaarbara!!
 
2013-08-20 07:05:22 PM
Yep, wolves will joykill from time to time.  Happened near Dillion Montana a few years ago.  Just a fact when you live near wolves.

Overall, livestock depredations are down since our wolf hunting season started.
 
2013-08-20 07:05:24 PM

doglover: Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.

Good. Hopefully the asshole who owned them goes out of business and has to take up another occupation where they're not responsible for others' lives.


This guy's herd is attacked by wolves and he's the asshole.  City folk are so funny.
 
2013-08-20 07:05:43 PM
"About 10 died of bite wounds and one was partially consumed."

God works in mysterious ways.
 
2013-08-20 07:05:45 PM

BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.


Werewolves?
 
2013-08-20 07:06:29 PM
 
2013-08-20 07:06:31 PM
Wolves don't go into enclosed pens. You know what goes into enclosed pens and chases sheep around (biting, but not eating them)? Dogs.
 
2013-08-20 07:06:47 PM

r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.


It's nothing against the wolves, but wolf killed livestock give you better government compensation than flukes of nature.

/The wolves have invented garroting
//NSA doesn't want you to know
 
2013-08-20 07:08:06 PM

highendmighty: BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.

Werewolves?


There wolves.

images.nationalgeographic.com

There Castle

images3.cliqueclack.com
 
2013-08-20 07:08:26 PM
www.movie-locations.com
 
2013-08-20 07:08:35 PM

HeadLever: Yep, wolves will joykill from time to time.  Happened near Dillion Montana a few years ago.  Just a fact when you live near wolves.

Overall, livestock depredations are down since our wolf hunting season started.


Funny how that works.
 
2013-08-20 07:08:35 PM
www.hipsterwave.com
Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All.
 
2013-08-20 07:08:39 PM

LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.


Sheep dogs or rams doesn't work very well against a pack of wolves.  Also, he may have insurance and these were likely out on open range.
 
2013-08-20 07:08:44 PM
Wake up sheeple!
 
2013-08-20 07:09:08 PM
I know in Italy they have a fun specifically for ranchers who experience this type of loss.

But yeah, maybe it's time to remember what shepherds did back when wolves were common. Sheepdogs, rams, probably those funny canes too?

In any case, this is also out of 2400 sheep... I am fairly certain there aren't even 2400 wolves in Idaho. The ranchers can deal with it.
 
2013-08-20 07:10:20 PM

69gnarkill69: This guy's herd is attacked by wolves and he's the asshole.


The guy's heard wasn't "attacked" by wolves. It was harried slightly.

The sheep killed themselves. The fact they were ABLE to bunch up tight enough to kill each other raises SERIOUS questions about herd density and geography. The fact the wolves weren't run off by shepherds or rams is the other ball dropping.

This guy isn't a rancher, he's a warehouse owner who thought sheep are just living shipping containers. fark him.
 
2013-08-20 07:10:41 PM

HeadLever: LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.

Sheep dogs or rams doesn't work very well against a pack of wolves.


But how about against just 2 wolves?
 
2013-08-20 07:11:28 PM

69gnarkill69: doglover: Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.

Good. Hopefully the asshole who owned them goes out of business and has to take up another occupation where they're not responsible for others' lives.

This guy's herd is attacked by wolves and he's the asshole.  City folk are so funny.


You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat, raise animals that have been bred over centuries to be dumb as fark, place them in convenient pens that the aforementioned predator can trap the dumbass animals inside...and you get pissed at wolves for doing what comes naturally?
 
2013-08-20 07:11:46 PM

Darkrover2: Wolf: Doing what it's supposed to do, and surprised by rancher butthurt wrongly applied to them.


wolves are known to joykill and that is why ranchers don't really like them.  Thier dislike is not 'wrongly applied' in the slightest if thier goal is to keep thier livestock alive.
 
2013-08-20 07:11:56 PM
They obviously need a better seer.

/doubt even one person will know wtf I'm talking about
 
2013-08-20 07:12:32 PM

AteMyBrain: Asphyxiation? Did the wolves strangle them?

Whatever...now the ranchers have a convenient excuse to go on a wolf-killing spree.

That's the idea, right?


When I was little (like, Kindergarten little) my family lived on a cattle ranch.  One night a mountain lion got into the maternity pens and killed 2 of the week-olds before dad could get out there.  The lion ran off without his dinner, so it went to another ranch and took one of those calves.

The next day was an exciting one for mini-me as I got to ride along while all the ranchers and farmers in the area got their guns and Jeeps and were heading out to kill that mountain lion.  Even the local Sheriff got into the action. (most likely just trying to direct traffic and keep everyone out of their own fields of fire.)

Mountain lion must have wanted nothing to do with a bunch of armed ranchers, because I don't think anyone ever did see it.
 
2013-08-20 07:12:42 PM

Mike Chewbacca: But how about against just 2 wolves?


We should ask him.  He usually makes an appearance during these threads.
 
2013-08-20 07:13:19 PM
Sheep. Probably the dumbest creatures that we eat that don't have wings or fins, and even then I'm not too sure.
 
2013-08-20 07:13:27 PM
Were they Big Bad Wolves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGRQGm4-A4k

NSFW, sanity
 
2013-08-20 07:13:41 PM

LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat


Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.
 
2013-08-20 07:13:45 PM

netizencain: [www.weirdspace.dk image 190x362]
I'm on it


If you were on it, the 176 sheep would have lived.
 
2013-08-20 07:14:16 PM
And yet, breeders spend fortunes and years to breed out wolf intelligence and power, and to get us this:

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-20 07:14:37 PM
You still wake up sometimes, don't you? You wake up in the dark and hear the screaming of the sheep.
kellimarshall.net
Well, Clarice. Have the sheep stopped screaming?
 
2013-08-20 07:15:24 PM

LordJiro: place them in convenient pens that the aforementioned predator can trap the dumbass animals inside...


Where does it say they were in pens?  It appears that you are making this an assumption.

Look at the picture again. I don't see any fences.  It is more likely that they were out on open range.
 
2013-08-20 07:15:36 PM

Drubell: They obviously need a better seer.

/doubt even one person will know wtf I'm talking about


If no one does, wouldn'tm Adder.
 
2013-08-20 07:15:42 PM

HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.


RE-introduced.
 
2013-08-20 07:16:07 PM
Ran out of mint jelly after the seventh one.
 
2013-08-20 07:16:31 PM

doglover: The guy's heard wasn't "attacked" by wolves. It was harried slightly.


Right,  Because you were there and know exactly what happened.
 
2013-08-20 07:16:37 PM

BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.


Where wolves? THERE WOLVES!
 
2013-08-20 07:16:55 PM
Two massive headline failures.
The sheep killed themselves, the wolves killed 11.

There's no reason for wolves to mass murder like humans would, given the chance.
 
2013-08-20 07:17:30 PM

doglover: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

RE-introduced.


Do you  have trouble with reading?  Isn't that what I said?
 
2013-08-20 07:18:39 PM

2wolves: Ran out of mint jelly after the seventh one.


You would need a truckload of it for this feast.
 
2013-08-20 07:18:47 PM

meat0918: Werewolves?

There wolves.


Didn't read quite far enough. Thought to myself, "Nobody else is goofy enough to write this!"

/golf howl
 
2013-08-20 07:19:26 PM

Infernalist: So...lemme see if I understand this correctly...

Two wolves find a sheep herd of over two thousand sheep, and because they're in a pen, the wolves can get in, but the sheep can't get out and the two wolves have a grand night of chasing sheep.

So much so that the stupid things piled up on top of each other in a panic to get away and killed themselves in their stupidity, while the wolves kill about ten of them in their chasing.

Then cap the night off by eating a sheep and then disappearing into the night.

And through it all, the vigilant shepherds didn't take notice until about 1am and didn't get out there in time to stop the wolves' games and late night dinner.

And of course, it's not the shepherds' faults for being stupid and not watching over their sheep close enough when they're trapped in a pen that they can't escape...

It's the wolves' fault for being wolves and liking the taste of sheep and like chasing sheep.

In the wild, these two wolves would have undoubtedly found a herd of deer and probably managed to chase down the slowest of them and had a nice dinner.  Nature at work.  But, in this case, they found a bunch of trapped sheep and some stupid shepherds who are bad at their job.

Title should be "2 wolves killed 10 sheep; stupid shepherds kill 166 sheep"


You my friend are ignorant. In the summer you free range sheep in the mountains like cattle over thousands of acres with perhaps two or four guys working during the day to keep them together and tend them. Pretty hard to keep up with running critters in the dark.
 
2013-08-20 07:19:28 PM
Sheep farmer Barney says: "Damn that Obama and his saving the galdern wolves!!!. Ima gonna go and kill me some sheep with the tail pipe of me truck and pile em up and say it was dem dern wolves. Then we gets ta kill as many as we want!!"


/OK, it was me. I snorted all their air out of their lungs and they died. Sorry about that.
//Usually I just snort their woolly bodies and get me high from all that marijuana they keep wandering through out there is the big open areas.
 
2013-08-20 07:19:43 PM

HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.


So by that logic, what if those specific sheep are less than 18 years old?
 
2013-08-20 07:19:50 PM

doglover: 69gnarkill69: This guy's herd is attacked by wolves and he's the asshole.

The guy's heard wasn't "attacked" by wolves. It was harried slightly.

The sheep killed themselves. The fact they were ABLE to bunch up tight enough to kill each other raises SERIOUS questions about herd density and geography. The fact the wolves weren't run off by shepherds or rams is the other ball dropping.

This guy isn't a rancher, he's a warehouse owner who thought sheep are just living shipping containers. fark him.


You haven't the slightest clue to what it means to be a rancher.  Your ignorance is astounding.
 
2013-08-20 07:20:16 PM

HeadLever: doglover: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

RE-introduced.

Do you  have trouble with reading?  Isn't that what I said?


Do you have trouble with English? Do you not see the obvious problem with your statement?
 
2013-08-20 07:21:26 PM

RubberBabyBuggyBumpers: meat0918: Werewolves?

There wolves.

Didn't read quite far enough. Thought to myself, "Nobody else is goofy enough to write this!"

/golf howl


Oh, there be plenty of goof around these parts, and a few parcels of silly.
 
2013-08-20 07:22:07 PM

doglover: The fact the wolves weren't run off by shepherds or rams is the other ball dropping.


Do you actually think that the rams would try to run off the wolves? Really?   You apparently know less about this topic than I first gave you credit for.
 
2013-08-20 07:22:37 PM
www.avoidinglife.com

Could be mistaken identity
 
2013-08-20 07:22:45 PM

HeadLever: LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.

Sheep dogs or rams doesn't work very well against a pack of wolves.  Also, he may have insurance and these were likely out on open range.


IIRC Turkish kangals, Great Pyrenees, and Caucasian overtchkas (spelling wrong) have been bred for centuries to work in teams to prevent wolf predation....they are very large (100-180lbs)and very serious about their jobs. The Caucasian will actively try to kill wolves near its flock.
Ranchers in the telluride area have been using kangals for awhile now and here predation has dropped significantly.
 
2013-08-20 07:22:53 PM

doyner: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

So by that logic, what if those specific sheep are less than 18 years old?


We were talking about the rancher, remember?  Not his sheep.  Try again.
 
2013-08-20 07:22:58 PM

HeadLever: LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.

Sheep dogs or rams doesn't work very well against a pack of wolves.  Also, he may have insurance and these were likely out on open range.


If he was on federal/public land, then look at all the farks I give:

None. None farks.

/feel kinda bad for the sheep
 
2013-08-20 07:23:18 PM

2wolves: Ran out of mint jelly after the seventh one.


And YOU get the funny button for a perfectly-timed chiming in.
 
2013-08-20 07:24:04 PM

HeadLever: doyner: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

So by that logic, what if those specific sheep are less than 18 years old?

We were talking about the rancher, remember?  Not his sheep.  Try again.


Yes, but he introduced those sheep.  That's the point.
 
2013-08-20 07:24:29 PM

HeadLever: doglover: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

RE-introduced.

Do you  have trouble with reading?  Isn't that what I said?


Who was there first is a really shiatty argument, but is pretty solid in legal terms if I understand it correctly.

I run into it all the time sadly.

The factory was here first!  Actually, homesteaders were, they were forced to sell their land in the 40's

The railroad was here first!  Actually, a school was there, one of the first in the area.  They knocked it down in the late 1800s and cut a growing community in half because, money "progress"

If we really want to argue who was here first, one can almost always say "The Native Americans".  That shuts that talk down right quick.
 
2013-08-20 07:24:51 PM

doyner: HeadLever: doyner: HeadLever: LordJiro: You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat

Acutally, the wolves were reintroduced back in 1995.  It is likely that the rancher was there first.

So by that logic, what if those specific sheep are less than 18 years old?

We were talking about the rancher, remember?  Not his sheep.  Try again.

Yes, but he introduced those sheep.  That's the point.


NEWSFLASH!

Animals get eaten by other animals out in the wild. Story at 11.
 
2013-08-20 07:24:52 PM
FTFA: "almost all of the sheep died from asphyxiation. About 10 died of bite wounds and one was partially consumed"

So 165 died from panic, and the rest were killed by wolves.

I guess shepherds don't math or reason too well.
 
2013-08-20 07:25:56 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: FTFA: "almost all of the sheep died from asphyxiation. About 10 died of bite wounds and one was partially consumed"

So 165 died from panic, and the rest were killed by wolves.

I guess shepherds don't math or reason too well.


Shepherds don't shepherd too well either, apparently.
 
2013-08-20 07:25:57 PM

LordJiro: 69gnarkill69: doglover: Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.

Good. Hopefully the asshole who owned them goes out of business and has to take up another occupation where they're not responsible for others' lives.

This guy's herd is attacked by wolves and he's the asshole.  City folk are so funny.

You plop your ranch in the middle of a predator's habitat, raise animals that have been bred over centuries to be dumb as fark, place them in convenient pens that the aforementioned predator can trap the dumbass animals inside...and you get pissed at wolves for doing what comes naturally?


I'm not pissed at the wolves, they are predators and they are good at it.  Where in my post do you get the idea that I'm pissed at wolves?  Project much?
 
2013-08-20 07:26:00 PM
The wolves just did what wolves do.   yes they killed 10 sheep and panicked the other to the point they killed themselves by packing into too tightly together.

The owner of the herd/flock and his employees are just as much to blame if not more as they failed to adequately protect their livestock.
 
2013-08-20 07:26:14 PM
Wolves I highly doubt. Coydogs perhaps.
 
2013-08-20 07:26:39 PM

r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.


Yeah, that sounded fishy to me too. I'm no sheep expert, but ...
 
2013-08-20 07:26:59 PM
Domesticated sheep are incredibly stupid due to regressive inbreeding of genetic lines.  That they all asphyxiated is not surprising.  We have bred them not to be able to survive without our intervention. Then we fed them in a cannibalistic manner and got scrapie.

Wolves breed pretty quickly, so, eventually something will need to be done to keep them in check.  Of course, ranchers would love to wipe them out again, but they would like to wipe out anyone who isn't a direct benefit to their operation.  A lot of ranchers, not all, if they could, would steal your land right out from under you without a second thought.  There is a sense of entitlement in ranching culture that doesn't have room for anyone else in its vision of the world.

/knows a few ranching families
 
2013-08-20 07:27:16 PM

ficklefkrfark: IIRC Turkish kangals, Great Pyrenees, and Caucasian overtchkas (spelling wrong) have been bred for centuries to work in teams to prevent wolf predation....they are very large (100-180lbs)and very serious about their jobs.


They are effective aginst one or two wolves.  Against a pack of wolves, however, they are less effective.  We have quite a number of Basques here and they use guard dogs with some success against the lone wolves.   Against a pack of wolves, they need to typically replace them.
 
2013-08-20 07:29:02 PM

BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.


local overheard telling reporters to 'keep to the road and stay clear of the moors'.

/do NOT ask about the pentagram in the pub.
 
2013-08-20 07:29:47 PM

indarwinsshadow: Wolves I highly doubt. Coydogs perhaps.


Why would you highly doubt it?  There are quite a few wolves here (enough to have a hunting season on them) and they have a known affinity for sheep.
 
2013-08-20 07:30:00 PM
Clearly this is Robb Stark's doing. How will we stop this northern madman?.
 
2013-08-20 07:30:27 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.

Yeah, that sounded fishy to me too. I'm no sheep expert, but ...


I'm not saying it was aliens but.....
 
2013-08-20 07:31:35 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.

Yeah, that sounded fishy to me too. I'm no sheep expert, but ...


Same thing happens to humans. You hear about 100s dying in rushes at Mecca or other crowded spots? A lot of that is asphyxiation.
 
2013-08-20 07:32:31 PM

grimlock1972: The owner of the herd/flock and his employees are just as much to blame if not more as they failed to adequately protect their livestock.


Why?  Siddoways use guard dogs in the past (still think that they do).  It would be a little cost prohibitive to assign each sheep with a blackwater escort.  They do take steps, but sometimes, the wolves find a way through the defenses.
 
2013-08-20 07:32:32 PM

CygnusDarius: Clearly this is Robb Stark's doing. How will we stop this northern madman?.


Well done!
 
2013-08-20 07:33:44 PM
Those sheeps were members of a animal auto-erotica club, and they pulled a Carradine.
 
2013-08-20 07:34:22 PM

HeadLever: ficklefkrfark: IIRC Turkish kangals, Great Pyrenees, and Caucasian overtchkas (spelling wrong) have been bred for centuries to work in teams to prevent wolf predation....they are very large (100-180lbs)and very serious about their jobs.

They are effective aginst one or two wolves.  Against a pack of wolves, however, they are less effective.  We have quite a number of Basques here and they use guard dogs with some success against the lone wolves.   Against a pack of wolves, they need to typically replace them.


Well, good, because it was 2 wolves in this case. But you already knew that.
 
2013-08-20 07:34:41 PM

Pointy Tail of Satan: And yet, breeders spend fortunes and years to breed out wolf intelligence and power, and to get us this:

[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 265x190]


Which they then let run around outside unattended in an area known for its large owl population, and then complain about the owls.
 
2013-08-20 07:34:55 PM

Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.


Well maybe they should get their ass out there with a stick and do some proper shepherding.  I mean if I left most of my financial goods sitting out in my yard it would probably all disappear over night.
 
2013-08-20 07:35:30 PM
I don't know how it's possible to count that many shee---zzz.
 
2013-08-20 07:35:40 PM
Should have put them in the field with "Cows with Guns"
 
2013-08-20 07:35:43 PM
hardinthecity.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-20 07:36:55 PM

HeadLever: Right, Because you were there and know exactly what happened.


Or he can do math.

a herd of about 2,400
wolves killed 10 (or 11)
 
2013-08-20 07:37:57 PM
i1.ytimg.com
He's that most dangerous of animals - a clever sheep

//Harold
 
2013-08-20 07:38:15 PM
First, how do they know it was wolves if they didn't go out to investigate while the attack was happening. And how do they know it was only 2? Some details are missing from the story.

/Don't shepherds usually watch their flocks more closely than this?
 
2013-08-20 07:38:35 PM

HeadLever: grimlock1972: The owner of the herd/flock and his employees are just as much to blame if not more as they failed to adequately protect their livestock.

Why?  Siddoways use guard dogs in the past (still think that they do).  It would be a little cost prohibitive to assign each sheep with a blackwater escort.  They do take steps, but sometimes, the wolves find a way through the defenses.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-08-20 07:38:49 PM

meat0918: Who was there first is a really shiatty argument, but is pretty solid in legal terms if I understand it correctly.


It was in the agreement terms of the reintroduction process that existing ranchers would have recourse of losses incurred by this program  Because of this, ranchers could shoot wolves that were harassing livestock and the FWS would take care of problem wolves that developed a taste for sheep or beef.There was also a program where some ranchers were reimbursed for thier losses if a FWS agent could prove it.

Now that wolves have lost thier endangered species protection and the state has managment, some of that has changed.
 
2013-08-20 07:39:47 PM
I'm sure it's been said, but R.I.P. 2wolves.
 
2013-08-20 07:40:05 PM

doglover: Smelly Pirate Hooker: r1niceboy: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

They all died piled up on top of each other. I'm not buying a word of this story apart from some wolves had an all you can eat buffet.

Yeah, that sounded fishy to me too. I'm no sheep expert, but ...

Same thing happens to humans. You hear about 100s dying in rushes at Mecca or other crowded spots? A lot of that is asphyxiation.


Yeah, I know. For some reason, I thought animals were smarter about not suffocating themselves by stampeding or whatever. I guess I'm wrong.
 
2013-08-20 07:40:17 PM
If I was a wolf, I'd be on a plane right now and heading to Idaho for high-fives and beers.
 
2013-08-20 07:40:39 PM

ArcadianRefugee: wolves killed 10 (or 11)


They killed 10 (or 11) but didn't attack per his argument?  Really?
 
2013-08-20 07:42:21 PM

ArcadianRefugee: HeadLever: Right, Because you were there and know exactly what happened.

Or he can do math.

a herd of about 2,400
wolves killed 10 (or 11)


Yeah, some folks here don't have a clue on how long it takes for a neck bite to choke out a sheep. Still the wannabe rancher will say all the loss of livestock was due directly to my brothers.

He must have been raised by humans.
 
2013-08-20 07:43:00 PM

doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.


And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.
 
2013-08-20 07:43:38 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: I guess I'm wrong


Yeah, sheep are always inventing new and interesting ways to die.  Death by wolf is old-hat for them.
 
2013-08-20 07:44:16 PM
I balanced out this article by reading one about sheep over at PETA dot org (The Hidden Lives of Sheep) and now I can honestly say: Good for the wolves.
 
2013-08-20 07:44:33 PM

HeadLever: ArcadianRefugee: wolves killed 10 (or 11)

They killed 10 (or 11) but didn't attack per his argument?  Really?


10 had bite wounds, one was partially consumed. What did they do to the others that constitute an attack? Noogie them?
 
2013-08-20 07:44:59 PM
Don't sheep ever fight back? Sheep should stop acting like people who never fight back even though they are being oppressed and killed by their government.
 
2013-08-20 07:45:42 PM

BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.


chocolatenyanko.files.wordpress.com

I'm a shakin' in my boots.
 
2013-08-20 07:45:43 PM

2wolves: Yeah, some folks here don't have a clue on how long it takes for a neck bite to choke out a sheep.


If you want to kill large numbers, you need to go to the slash and gut method like you did in Dillion, Montan where you killed over 100 in a single night.  No chokeholds there.
 
2013-08-20 07:46:36 PM

iaazathot: Domesticated sheep are incredibly stupid due to regressive inbreeding of genetic lines.  That they all asphyxiated is not surprising.  We have bred them not to be able to survive without our intervention. Then we fed them in a cannibalistic manner and got scrapie.

Wolves breed pretty quickly, so, eventually something will need to be done to keep them in check.  Of course, ranchers would love to wipe them out again, but they would like to wipe out anyone who isn't a direct benefit to their operation.  A lot of ranchers, not all, if they could, would steal your land right out from under you without a second thought.  There is a sense of entitlement in ranching culture that doesn't have room for anyone else in its vision of the world.

/knows a few ranching families


Wolves do not breed 'pretty quickly'. They have one litter per year on average.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on. This is nothing more than another example of a rancher who is bad at their job.
 
2013-08-20 07:46:59 PM

BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.


I can only hope your weapon jams. Like to see your face when you're no longer the apex preditor.
 
2013-08-20 07:47:48 PM

GreenSun: Don't sheep ever fight back? Sheep should stop acting like people who never fight back even though they are being oppressed and killed by their government.


"Wake up, sheeplepeeps"?
 
2013-08-20 07:47:48 PM
How do we know it was wolves that spooked the sheep? Maybe it was the sight of one rancher, buck-naked, pulling on a pair of rubber boots and Velcro gloves...
 
2013-08-20 07:49:00 PM
Anybody who says the wolves were "re-introduced" needs to get educated.  The wolves the "re-introduced" were a different sub species of gray wolf.  The Canadian Gray's were "introduced".  And when they were, they completely killed off the native wolf that was endangered.

These non-native wolves are sterilizing the areas where they roam.

Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin, shut the hell up because what you read is complete BS.  All created by "environmentalists" who falsified data to say that wolves were actually good for nature.

Until they are under control I will shoot every wolf I see.
 
2013-08-20 07:49:25 PM

BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.


The wolves were natives until men killed them all off. Now they've been reintroduced to their native environment. It's the humans who are the non-natives.
 
2013-08-20 07:49:40 PM

ArcadianRefugee: 10 had bite wounds, one was partially consumed. What did they do to the others that constitute an attack? Noogie them?


I am not talking about the others.  I am talking about the 10 or 11 that acutally had holes in them.
 
2013-08-20 07:50:15 PM

BGates: Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.


As opposed to, what, passively shooting them? How would that work? Indirect (arc) fire?
 
2013-08-20 07:51:10 PM
It was Lupus.
 
2013-08-20 07:51:11 PM

Arachnophobe: Wolves do not breed 'pretty quickly'.


yes they do.  Thier numbers increased in Idaho by about 20% per year since they were reintroduced up until the hunting season was started in 2009
 
2013-08-20 07:51:14 PM

2wolves: BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

I can only hope your weapon jams. Like to see your face when you're no longer the apex preditor.


I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.
 
2013-08-20 07:53:26 PM

Mike Chewbacca: BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

The wolves were natives until men killed them all off. Now they've been reintroduced to their native environment. It's the humans who are the non-natives.


No, the Canadian gray wolf was not native to the American Rockies.  The Canadian wolves are much larger and much more aggressive.
 
2013-08-20 07:53:31 PM

Nick Nostril: It was Lupus.


I guess it's pretty sirius.
 
2013-08-20 07:53:32 PM

BGates: Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin, shut the hell up because what you read is complete BS.


People still use that term?
 
2013-08-20 07:53:46 PM

BGates: Anybody who says the wolves were "re-introduced" needs to get educated.  The wolves the "re-introduced" were a different sub species of gray wolf.  The Canadian Gray's were "introduced".  And when they were, they completely killed off the native wolf that was endangered.

These non-native wolves are sterilizing the areas where they roam.

Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin, shut the hell up because what you read is complete BS.  All created by "environmentalists" who falsified data to say that wolves were actually good for nature.

Until they are under control I will shoot every wolf I see.


CITATION NEEDED
 
2013-08-20 07:53:48 PM

HeadLever: ArcadianRefugee: 10 had bite wounds, one was partially consumed. What did they do to the others that constitute an attack? Noogie them?

I am not talking about the others.  I am talking about the 10 or 11 that acutally had holes in them.


Oh, well, obviously the wolves attacked them.

Unless they were suicides designed to look like wolf attacks. Or maybe the sheep were part of the asphyxiation pile and the wolves were trying to rescue them, pull them to safety. It's not as if wolves have hands to do that with, so obviously they'd have to use their mouths.

It's like breaking someone's rib when you give them the Heimlich maneuver.
 
2013-08-20 07:54:34 PM
I don't care how much livestock dies from wolves. Ranchers are just a bunch of self-entitles crybabies who think man is the only species that deserves to exist (apart from the ones they raise for slaughter). Where I live, an alarming number of people believe that every elk, every deer, every sheep that dies was murdered by wolves. They take FWP statistics of elk death after an especially brutal winter, and leap to the conclusion that wolves killed them all. To listen to these troglodytes, elk would be immortal if not for wolves.
 
2013-08-20 07:55:05 PM

ArcadianRefugee: BGates: Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

As opposed to, what, passively shooting them? How would that work? Indirect (arc) fire?


Well it means that I actively try to shoot wolves.  I actually go out wolf hunting instead of sitting and drinking a beer on my deck.
 
2013-08-20 07:56:16 PM

a particular individual: I don't care how much livestock dies from wolves.


Then I don't care what you think.  You are a bigoted moron.
 
2013-08-20 07:58:10 PM

cynicalbastard: How do we know it was wolves that spooked the sheep? Maybe it was the sight of one rancher, buck-naked, pulling on a pair of rubber boots and Velcro gloves...


The sheep are used to that.
 
2013-08-20 07:58:58 PM
Wolves and Ranchers.  This can only mean one thing.


www.geekenstein.com


/hot link
//I know one of yous was thinking of this.
 
2013-08-20 08:00:05 PM

BGates: The Canadian wolves are much larger and much more aggressive.


According to who. The Rocky Mountain Wolf isn't exactly a beagle sized lap dog.
 
2013-08-20 08:00:35 PM

Mike Chewbacca: BGates: Anybody who says the wolves were "re-introduced" needs to get educated.  The wolves the "re-introduced" were a different sub species of gray wolf.  The Canadian Gray's were "introduced".  And when they were, they completely killed off the native wolf that was endangered.

These non-native wolves are sterilizing the areas where they roam.

Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin, shut the hell up because what you read is complete BS.  All created by "environmentalists" who falsified data to say that wolves were actually good for nature.

Until they are under control I will shoot every wolf I see.

CITATION NEEDED


He just KNOWS it in his GUT, something us dirty CITY folk and them there scienticians can't possibly understand!
 
2013-08-20 08:00:56 PM

BGates: ArcadianRefugee: BGates: Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

As opposed to, what, passively shooting them? How would that work? Indirect (arc) fire?

Well it means that I actively try to shoot wolves.  I actually go out wolf hunting instead of sitting and drinking a beer on my deck.


From this story, it sounds like it might be more effective to get some sheep and wait for the wolves to come to you, but that might be considered passively hunting, which just isn't ITG enough.
 
2013-08-20 08:01:21 PM
imageshack.us
 
2013-08-20 08:02:11 PM

2wolves: You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

I can only hope your weapon jams. Like to see your face when you're no longer the apex preditor.


The wolf would probably saunter off and not do a thing.  Wolves rarely attack humans.
 
2013-08-20 08:03:03 PM

Mole Man: Wolves and Ranchers.  This can only mean one thing.


[www.geekenstein.com image 640x360]


/hot link
//I know one of yous was thinking of this.


It still cracks me up that the guy in that costume ended up being "Mozzie" in White Collar.
 
2013-08-20 08:03:27 PM

a particular individual: I don't care how much livestock dies from wolves. Ranchers are just a bunch of self-entitles crybabies who think man is the only species that deserves to exist (apart from the ones they raise for slaughter). Where I live, an alarming number of people believe that every elk, every deer, every sheep that dies was murdered by wolves. They take FWP statistics of elk death after an especially brutal winter, and leap to the conclusion that wolves killed them all. To listen to these troglodytes, elk would be immortal if not for wolves.


Well, since winters have generally been getting less "brutal" and the ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves, it makes sense that wolves are the problem.
 
2013-08-20 08:03:39 PM
HEY YOU CITY SLACKERS! YOU'RE ALL STUPID AND EVIL! MY BUDDY'S A SCIENCTICIAN AND HE DONE TOLD ME WOLVES IS BAD, M'KAY!

I'M TOTALLY CEREAL!
 
2013-08-20 08:04:51 PM

BGates: ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves


YA THINK!?

blog.littlebigfund.org
 
2013-08-20 08:05:22 PM

BGates: I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.


I know you got a good thing going on and a lot of people hooked, but wolves don't really eat people.
 
2013-08-20 08:05:47 PM

Mike Chewbacca: BGates: Anybody who says the wolves were "re-introduced" needs to get educated.  The wolves the "re-introduced" were a different sub species of gray wolf.  The Canadian Gray's were "introduced".  And when they were, they completely killed off the native wolf that was endangered.

These non-native wolves are sterilizing the areas where they roam.

Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin, shut the hell up because what you read is complete BS.  All created by "environmentalists" who falsified data to say that wolves were actually good for nature.

Until they are under control I will shoot every wolf I see.

CITATION NEEDED


It's been shown that David Mech falsified and lied about much of his data.  He even said he did.  And he was the main reason that Canadian wolves were introduced in 1995.
 
2013-08-20 08:05:49 PM

BGates: ArcadianRefugee: BGates: Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

As opposed to, what, passively shooting them? How would that work? Indirect (arc) fire?

Well it means that I actively try to shoot wolves.  I actually go out wolf hunting instead of sitting and drinking a beer on my deck.


Ah, ok. As opposed to shooting and accidentally hitting a wolf instead of . . . whatever you were actually trying to shoot.

/it can happen
 
2013-08-20 08:09:35 PM

HeadLever: ficklefkrfark: IIRC Turkish kangals, Great Pyrenees, and Caucasian overtchkas (spelling wrong) have been bred for centuries to work in teams to prevent wolf predation....they are very large (100-180lbs)and very serious about their jobs.

They are effective aginst one or two wolves.  Against a pack of wolves, however, they are less effective.  We have quite a number of Basques here and they use guard dogs with some success against the lone wolves.   Against a pack of wolves, they need to typically replace them.


Reading that it seems that a large number of LGDs can be very effective, unless they are up against a large pack...in those cases a ranch hand should be responding to the ruckus to provide ballistic assistance.
I commercial fish and we have to deal with predators eating our catch and damaging our gear on a regular basis, it sucks, but it's part of the job and we have to deal with it(can't really blame an animal for wanting an easy meal)....ranchers use public land, and get compensation for lost animals?
We need better lobbyists I guess.

/wolves should have the right to live, and ranchers should have the right to kill the ones harassing their herds.
 
2013-08-20 08:09:59 PM

BGates: It's been shown that David Mech falsified and lied about much of his data


Not yet in this thread it hasn't.
 
2013-08-20 08:10:17 PM

meat0918: LockeOak: Sounds like the rancher needs a better fence, or insurance, or sheep dogs, or rams.

Attack llamas.

[i457.photobucket.com image 156x139]


i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-20 08:10:23 PM

Glitchwerks: BGates: I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.

I know you got a good thing going on and a lot of people hooked, but wolves don't really eat people.


They do attack and have killed.  With the wolf population exploding, it won't be long before it happens.  A couple years ago a few wolves had to be relocated because they were roaming the neighborhoods in a Jackson subdivision.
 
2013-08-20 08:11:40 PM

doglover: HEY YOU CITY SLACKERS! YOU'RE ALL STUPID AND EVIL! MY BUDDY'S A SCIENCTICIAN AND HE DONE TOLD ME WOLVES IS BAD, M'KAY!

I'M TOTALLY CEREAL!


Heh, I was just reading that, although I stopped when he used the FOXesque, "according to some".
 
2013-08-20 08:12:44 PM

doglover: HEY YOU CITY SLACKERS! YOU'RE ALL STUPID AND EVIL! MY BUDDY'S A SCIENCTICIAN AND HE DONE TOLD ME WOLVES IS BAD, M'KAY!

I'M TOTALLY CEREAL!


Ad Hominem
Any credibility you had to this point in the thread has been lost.  Grow up little man.
 
2013-08-20 08:13:01 PM

BGates: Glitchwerks: BGates: I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.

I know you got a good thing going on and a lot of people hooked, but wolves don't really eat people.

They do attack and have killed.  With the wolf population exploding, it won't be long before it happens.  A couple years ago a few wolves had to be relocated because they were roaming the neighborhoods in a Jackson subdivision.


If/when something happens, then you have the right to get outraged.  Until then, stop perpetuating the wolf-hating rancher stereotype.
 
2013-08-20 08:15:08 PM

HeadLever: a particular individual: I don't care how much livestock dies from wolves.

Then I don't care what you think.  You are a bigoted moron.


You can tell all that from one post? Just imagine what I've gleaned from your short missive.

Wolves were here first. Ranchers want to drive wolves to extinction. That is the depth of arrogance, short-sightedness and entitlement.

By the way, you're a bigoted moron.

See what I did there?
 
2013-08-20 08:15:16 PM

meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.


And we're done.
 
2013-08-20 08:16:14 PM

69gnarkill69: Ad Hominem


It's only a fallacy if it's not true.
 
2013-08-20 08:16:58 PM

doglover: BGates: The Canadian wolves are much larger and much more aggressive.

According to who. The Rocky Mountain Wolf isn't exactly a beagle sized lap dog.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rocky_Mountains_wolf

This subspecies generally weighs 70-135 pounds (32-61 kg) and stands at 26-32 inches, making it one of the largest subspecies of the gray wolf in existence. Reading the wiki, it seems that the reintroduced wolves were of the Great Plains Wolf and the Mackenzie Valley Wolf, both Canadian.

The Great Plains Wolf is smaller than the NRM wolf, the Mackenzie Valley Wolf is larger. It doesn't say which one was primarily used.
 
2013-08-20 08:17:07 PM

BGates: Glitchwerks: I know you got a good thing going on and a lot of people hooked, but wolves don't really eat people.

They do attack and have killed.


Yes, and people have died from having a cow fall through their roof and crush them. However, compared to the many, many other ways to die, it really hasn't happened with enough frequency to cause any alarm. Ever.

With the wolf population exploding, it won't be long before it happens.

Possibly, but pure speculation.

A couple years ago a few wolves had to be relocated because they were roaming the neighborhoods in a Jackson subdivision.

And how long were they roaming this area? And how many people did they attack? I'm guessing the answer to that last one is "none" or you would've mentioned it.
 
2013-08-20 08:17:25 PM

FormlessOne: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

And we're done.


They killed 10, actually.  And ate part of one of those 10.
 
2013-08-20 08:19:18 PM

Glitchwerks: 2wolves: You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

I can only hope your weapon jams. Like to see your face when you're no longer the apex preditor.

The wolf would probably saunter off and not do a thing.  Wolves rarely attack humans.


Hey now, I have it on good authority from all our Fark Ranchers that wolves kill everything in their path, just for the hell of it. I'll bet those sheep died from heart attacks after they saw the wolves' glowing, red eyes and their foot long teeth
 
2013-08-20 08:19:26 PM
Coming from a long line of farmers, not ranchers, I'm not quite sure how I feel about this.  My two exposures to herds of sheep in childhood did teach me that they are dumber than bags of hair, and even more so than cattle, have a strong herd mentality.  I don't feel too bad for the rancher who lost his sheep, stuff happens.  I also really don't care about the 1-2 farkers in this thread who choose to hunt wolves, they are predators.  About the only thing that I can say is living in Colorado and with much of my farming family still on the Plains is that I saw a whole lot more damage and destruction dealt by coyotes than anything else.  Heck, that's an animal I'd go out and shoot myself for fun and games.  We're not quite in wolf country here, unless one goes up into the mountains.  Then, it's really more the bears one needs to be fearful of.  We don't have a huge wolf population here, AFAIK.  The sheep will reproduce anyway, it's about all that they're good at.
 
2013-08-20 08:20:07 PM

BGates: They do attack and have killed.  With the wolf population exploding, it won't be long before it happens.  A couple years ago a few wolves had to be relocated because they were roaming the neighborhoods in a Jackson subdivision.


Again, I know you're trolling, but to humor you, wolves are the most researched animal on the planet.  The wolf population isn't exploding.

More people have been attacked and killed by dogs this year than there has been people attacked and killed by wolves so far this century.
 
2013-08-20 08:20:45 PM
2 wolves and 176 sheep voted on what to have for lunch.
 
2013-08-20 08:21:19 PM
Oddly topical, this happened to be my first green.
 
2013-08-20 08:21:42 PM

macdaddy357: 2 wolves and 176 sheep voted on what to have for lunch.


hah, good reference.
 
2013-08-20 08:22:00 PM

macdaddy357: 2 wolves and 176 sheep voted on what to have for lunch.


See! The 1% make all the decisions!!!!
 
2013-08-20 08:22:15 PM

Infernalist: FormlessOne: meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.

And we're done.

They killed 10, actually.  And ate part of one of those 10.


Your honor, I am not an experienced sheep killer! I did not hop in that pen expecting to eat ANYONE! I simply tasted a little of each in the hopes that the next one would taste better! I'm sure your honor has done the same thing with a box of chocolates.

/sole survivor of a 35 minute delay
//not obscure, methinks
 
2013-08-20 08:22:18 PM

BGates: 2wolves: BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.

I can only hope your weapon jams. Like to see your face when you're no longer the apex preditor.

I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.


We've had this discussion before.  You're still sucking the cock of the Old Testament where man was given dominion.  You are not that special.
 
2013-08-20 08:22:44 PM
This is why I hate furries
 
2013-08-20 08:26:49 PM

HeadLever: Yep, wolves will joykill from time to time.  Happened near Dillion Montana a few years ago.  Just a fact when you live near wolves.



Can you point me to any primary research describing this phenomenon? I can only find information on opportunistic mass kills where the wolves return to feed from the "excess" carcasses at a later time.
 
2013-08-20 08:29:43 PM

Infernalist: They killed 10, actually. And ate part of one of those 10.


The article isn't clear on that; it could be read either way:
About 10 died of bite wounds and one was partially consumed.
Sounds like 11 to me ("ten and one", rather than "10, one of which...").

But who's counting? I tried, but I fell asleep.
 
2013-08-20 08:31:06 PM
This wouldn't have happened if he had put up something to protect the sheep.

www.internet-d.com
 
2013-08-20 08:32:15 PM
So, the toll of the wolf hunts in Idaho driving livestock losses higher and higher is continuing to new records as they kill more and more, wrecking the packs an their ability to feed themselves on their natural prey.

This is simply a continuation of what happened the last couple of years.  Kill wolves at random, destroy their ability to regulate their own population, use that as an excuse to kill more random wolves and dig their state and all involved into the same hole deeper.

Now after Wisconsin's first "limited" wolf hunt, the packs have become much more defensive of their territories as loss of pack members reduced their strength against other wolves, and bear hunters running hounds out of sight in wolf territory there are having twice the incidents of the wolves defending their territories against the invading wolves threatening them and their pups, that ignore scent marks and howl they own the place instead. 8 or 9 incidents in the last month.  Oh, and Michigan wants to copy the idea of shooting a few wolves, partly on the basis it might have the opposite effect there, make wolves welcome other wolves (the dogs) into their territories.
 
2013-08-20 08:38:00 PM
specialkae:   The sheep will reproduce anyway, it's about all that they're good at.

You don't say....

earthhabitat.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-20 08:39:20 PM

SwiftFox: So, the toll of the wolf hunts in Idaho driving livestock losses higher and higher is continuing to new records as they kill more and more, wrecking the packs an their ability to feed themselves on their natural prey.

This is simply a continuation of what happened the last couple of years.  Kill wolves at random, destroy their ability to regulate their own population, use that as an excuse to kill more random wolves and dig their state and all involved into the same hole deeper.

Now after Wisconsin's first "limited" wolf hunt, the packs have become much more defensive of their territories as loss of pack members reduced their strength against other wolves, and bear hunters running hounds out of sight in wolf territory there are having twice the incidents of the wolves defending their territories against the invading wolves threatening them and their pups, that ignore scent marks and howl they own the place instead. 8 or 9 incidents in the last month.  Oh, and Michigan wants to copy the idea of shooting a few wolves, partly on the basis it might have the opposite effect there, make wolves welcome other wolves (the dogs) into their territories.


Don't you understand. The wolves in Idaho are evil killers. They killed me when I was just a baby!
 
2013-08-20 08:40:25 PM

Cubicle Jockey: HeadLever: Yep, wolves will joykill from time to time.  Happened near Dillion Montana a few years ago.  Just a fact when you live near wolves.


Can you point me to any primary research describing this phenomenon? I can only find information on opportunistic mass kills where the wolves return to feed from the "excess" carcasses at a later time.


CJ, you are attacking an article of faith here. It doesn't occur to the people claiming this that wolves often starve - ignorant of their ecology, they even claim this isn't the case.  "How could a wolf starve when there are still uneaten pets in people's yards and humans walking around as feasts?" their fantasy of what wolves are doesn't fit with it. So it never occurs that when they buy ten pounds of meat at the supermarket, and maybe don't eat ANY of it immediately (putting it in the fridge, as humans need to), that by their logic they bought the future meals for the "joy" of it, and were involved in the death of the cow involved for the same reason.
 
2013-08-20 08:41:25 PM
I believe it. At least, I believe the part that 10 sheep died of bites, one was partially eaten and the rest died in panic.

Sheep are amazingly stupid and when they panic, they stampede, like any other herd animal. If they can't run, or if nothing else is there to calm them down, they'll pile up against barriers and trample each other to death.

Wolves have a "pursuit" strategy when they hunt; that is, they tend to chase prey which runs from them. They sometimes have difficulty understanding prey which cannot or will not run, and may bite it excessively, trying to get it to run so they can chase it. However, if the prey doesn't run, wolves usually leave it alone--that's why pronghorn have made a big comeback in Yellowstone since wolves have been reintroduced: Wolves don't eat the fawns, and chase off the coyotes that do.

Now, coyotes will eat sheep, but are small, and can't take down more than one; and sheep can and will fight back against one or two coyotes. And coyotes don't drive prey, they're not fast enough. Coyotes are stalkers, and wouldn't take on a huge herd of sheep, and certainly couldn't kill ten or eleven sheep.

There is a third large canine common in Idaho that can run sheep, kill several animals in a short period of time, and would kill several animals but not eat them. One that is big enough to drive the flock into a panic severe enough to lead to a stampede and has the stamina to kill a dozen sheep in the course of the evening. Anyone know how many big dogs that rancher has, I wonder?
 
2013-08-20 08:41:26 PM

doglover: BGates: ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves

YA THINK!?

[blog.littlebigfund.org image 850x637]


Why did you put a picture of a polar bear in a post about animals with hooves?
 
2013-08-20 08:42:57 PM

doglover: SwiftFox: So, the toll of the wolf hunts in Idaho driving livestock losses higher and higher is continuing to new records as they kill more and more, wrecking the packs an their ability to feed themselves on their natural prey.

This is simply a continuation of what happened the last couple of years.  Kill wolves at random, destroy their ability to regulate their own population, use that as an excuse to kill more random wolves and dig their state and all involved into the same hole deeper.

Now after Wisconsin's first "limited" wolf hunt, the packs have become much more defensive of their territories as loss of pack members reduced their strength against other wolves, and bear hunters running hounds out of sight in wolf territory there are having twice the incidents of the wolves defending their territories against the invading wolves threatening them and their pups, that ignore scent marks and howl they own the place instead. 8 or 9 incidents in the last month.  Oh, and Michigan wants to copy the idea of shooting a few wolves, partly on the basis it might have the opposite effect there, make wolves welcome other wolves (the dogs) into their territories.

Don't you understand. The wolves in Idaho are evil killers. They killed me when I was just a baby!


I sympathize. I know of at least another unfortunate whose mother revealed to him that his father was eaten by wolves a year before he was born, the local wildlife agency covering it up so as not to panic people.
 
2013-08-20 08:43:08 PM
A) Bullshiat

B) the federal government pays any farmers for wolf killed live stock, so stop pretending that hte farmers are out money.
 
2013-08-20 08:46:25 PM

m1ke: [i79.photobucket.com image 320x240]


"He was delicious!"
 
2013-08-20 08:47:38 PM

Arachnophobe: iaazathot: Domesticated sheep are incredibly stupid due to regressive inbreeding of genetic lines.  That they all asphyxiated is not surprising.  We have bred them not to be able to survive without our intervention. Then we fed them in a cannibalistic manner and got scrapie.

Wolves breed pretty quickly, so, eventually something will need to be done to keep them in check.  Of course, ranchers would love to wipe them out again, but they would like to wipe out anyone who isn't a direct benefit to their operation.  A lot of ranchers, not all, if they could, would steal your land right out from under you without a second thought.  There is a sense of entitlement in ranching culture that doesn't have room for anyone else in its vision of the world.

/knows a few ranching families

Wolves do not breed 'pretty quickly'. They have one litter per year on average.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on. This is nothing more than another example of a rancher who is bad at their job.


Everything I have read or heard on the matter (radio, we have a daily Wyoming Today on NPR) of wolf re-population is that their numbers came back very fast and they spread faster than anticipated.  No, they aren't rabbits, or humans for that matter, but they do seem to be reproducing at a rate higher than anticipated.  I would estimate that they have a good survival rate in their litters compared to some other mammals, or they are breeding faster for some reason.  However, I am certainly no expert.
 
2013-08-20 08:49:06 PM

keypusher: doglover: BGates: ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves

YA THINK!?

[blog.littlebigfund.org image 850x637]

Why did you put a picture of a polar bear in a post about animals with hooves?


It's not the animal, it's the gesture.

Wolves were re-introduced because ungulate populations are out of control without predation all over north America. Without frequent culls and hunting, they do damage to everything in the forest as well as people's gardens and farms and cars. This is in sharp contrast to the places like northern Canada where the wolves never got slaughtered which still have decent balance.

So the bear covering it's face is to imply the one speaking is missing the point so badly when they say ungulate populations are declining that I must cover my face to shield myself from their obliviousness.
 
2013-08-20 08:50:25 PM

doglover: BGates: ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves

YA THINK!?

[blog.littlebigfund.org image 850x637]


I suggest that you check out Chronic Wasting Desease, drought, and fires in those same areas.  Woops, seems like a pretty high correlation!  Science, how does it work?
 
2013-08-20 08:52:44 PM

albatros183: This is why I hate furries


Are there any furries who dress up like sheep?
 
2013-08-20 08:53:56 PM

nekom: Better get Palin in a helicopter.  This is, actually, one problem she IS capable of solving.


Seriously, nobody replied to this?

3.bp.blogspot.com

Fark, I am disappoint...
 
2013-08-20 08:54:01 PM

worlddan: specialkae:   The sheep will reproduce anyway, it's about all that they're good at.

You don't say....

[earthhabitat.files.wordpress.com image 640x447]


I lol'ed.  You sir, are funny.
 
2013-08-20 08:56:54 PM

iaazathot: Everything I have read or heard on the matter (radio, we have a daily Wyoming Today on NPR) of wolf re-population is that their numbers came back very fast and they spread faster than anticipated.


This is true. From the few dozen that were released into Yellowstone and Idaho, by 2007 an estimated 1,500 wolves inhabited the northern Rockies of the United States (some descended from Canadian immigrant packs, but still).

Now, I get ranchers being annoyed, but this is one of the sillier complaints noted;
As the wolves have feasted on the herds, there have been fewer elk for hunters to shoot. "Our hunting has really gone lousy," said Martin Davis ofParadise Valley, Montana, who guides elk hunters in the mountains north of Yellowstone NationalPark.
Translation: "Dangit! The wolves are killin' things before we get to kill 'em!"
 
2013-08-20 08:58:48 PM

meat0918: Wolves killed 11, the rest died from asphyxiation.


upload.wikimedia.org

Oh look, a sheep orgy.
 
2013-08-20 09:00:22 PM

SwiftFox: So, the toll of the wolf hunts in Idaho driving livestock losses higher and higher is continuing to new records as they kill more and more, wrecking the packs an their ability to feed themselves on their natural prey.

This is simply a continuation of what happened the last couple of years.  Kill wolves at random, destroy their ability to regulate their own population, use that as an excuse to kill more random wolves and dig their state and all involved into the same hole deeper.

Now after Wisconsin's first "limited" wolf hunt, the packs have become much more defensive of their territories as loss of pack members reduced their strength against other wolves, and bear hunters running hounds out of sight in wolf territory there are having twice the incidents of the wolves defending their territories against the invading wolves threatening them and their pups, that ignore scent marks and howl they own the place instead. 8 or 9 incidents in the last month.  Oh, and Michigan wants to copy the idea of shooting a few wolves, partly on the basis it might have the opposite effect there, make wolves welcome other wolves (the dogs) into their territories.


We'll keep shooting them, too.
 
2013-08-20 09:02:46 PM

BGates: Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin


People actually say "big-talking city slickers" in places where wolves reign over humans?
 
2013-08-20 09:05:06 PM
Ooooo Scarry Sheep is scary. 40 seconds of your time for a small LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKExXjFAQz4
 
2013-08-20 09:07:06 PM

BGates: a particular individual: I don't care how much livestock dies from wolves. Ranchers are just a bunch of self-entitles crybabies who think man is the only species that deserves to exist (apart from the ones they raise for slaughter). Where I live, an alarming number of people believe that every elk, every deer, every sheep that dies was murdered by wolves. They take FWP statistics of elk death after an especially brutal winter, and leap to the conclusion that wolves killed them all. To listen to these troglodytes, elk would be immortal if not for wolves.

Well, since winters have generally been getting less "brutal" and the ungulate populations are in steep decline only in areas with wolves, it makes sense that wolves are the problem.


Yes. Only wolves kill ungulates. Ungulates are immortal, apart from those supernatural wolves, and their single-minded anti-ungulate agenda. A warmer-than-average-winter cannot possibly kill any ungulates. Ungulates never die from old age, injury, disease, overpopulation, starvation, trappers, poachers, bad luck, falling from great heights, getting hit by ranchers in their ludicrously oversized trucks, bears, or wolverines. All elk, deer and sheep that have ever died have been victims of wolves. The only solution is to KILL ALL THE WOLVES! Only then will ranchers STFU about wolves and complain about some other natural condition that needs to be "corrected" because money.
 
2013-08-20 09:07:49 PM

ArcadianRefugee: iaazathot: Everything I have read or heard on the matter (radio, we have a daily Wyoming Today on NPR) of wolf re-population is that their numbers came back very fast and they spread faster than anticipated.

This is true. From the few dozen that were released into Yellowstone and Idaho, by 2007 an estimated 1,500 wolves inhabited the northern Rockies of the United States (some descended from Canadian immigrant packs, but still).

Now, I get ranchers being annoyed, but this is one of the sillier complaints noted;
As the wolves have feasted on the herds, there have been fewer elk for hunters to shoot. "Our hunting has really gone lousy," said Martin Davis ofParadise Valley, Montana, who guides elk hunters in the mountains north of Yellowstone NationalPark.Translation: "Dangit! The wolves are killin' things before we get to kill 'em!"


The guide sevices talk out of the other side of their mouth in their ads trying to attract hunters to the abundant local herds of elk and other game.
 
2013-08-20 09:09:19 PM

BGates: Glitchwerks: BGates: I imagine that the wolves will be eating you since you won't have a weapon.  And I promise I won't harm any wolf that eats one of you wolf loving idiots.

I know you got a good thing going on and a lot of people hooked, but wolves don't really eat people.

They do attack and have killed.  With the wolf population exploding, it won't be long before it happens.  A couple years ago a few wolves had to be relocated because they were roaming the neighborhoods in a Jackson subdivision.


You say this like it's a bad thing...I keed, I keed, but no...

The Orlando, FL area is having a huge number of black bear encounters right now, coyotes are also encroaching on urban populations.  At some point nature and people collide.  If you want to live in places where animals are prevalent and expect them to magically disappear, then I don't think the fault is with the animals.  I think that statistical odds of murder are much greater than wolf attack, even in Jackson Hole.  Moose are much more dangerous than either bears or wolves, and they are all over Wyoming.  You are statistically more likely to be killed by a female moose in this area than by any other mammal.

The only recorded attack in Wyoming that I can find was from 1833 in Green River by a rabid wolf.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans

It may very well happen that wolves might attack a human again.  As a whole, wolf attacks are extremely statistically rare in the last two centuries.
 
2013-08-20 09:15:23 PM

ArcadianRefugee: iaazathot: Everything I have read or heard on the matter (radio, we have a daily Wyoming Today on NPR) of wolf re-population is that their numbers came back very fast and they spread faster than anticipated.

This is true. From the few dozen that were released into Yellowstone and Idaho, by 2007 an estimated 1,500 wolves inhabited the northern Rockies of the United States (some descended from Canadian immigrant packs, but still).

Now, I get ranchers being annoyed, but this is one of the sillier complaints noted;
As the wolves have feasted on the herds, there have been fewer elk for hunters to shoot. "Our hunting has really gone lousy," said Martin Davis ofParadise Valley, Montana, who guides elk hunters in the mountains north of Yellowstone NationalPark.Translation: "Dangit! The wolves are killin' things before we get to kill 'em!"


Yeah, elk decline is largely due to drought, Chronic Wasting Disease, loss of habitat due to humans, and horrible fire seasons.  Of course, people need to pin their frustrations on something.  There is little evidence that the wolf population has decimated the elk population.  They are just one of many variables and are pretty low on the list.
 
2013-08-20 09:16:11 PM

nekom: Better get Palin in a helicopter.  This is, actually, one problem she IS capable of solving.


photos.imageevent.com
 
2013-08-20 09:21:27 PM

ficklefkrfark: /wolves should have the right to live, and ranchers should have the right to kill the ones harassing their herds.


That is ultimately my take.  Guard dogs are a tool, but not failsafe.  There is really no failsafe with wolves when you are open range.  It is just a risk that you need to make.
 
2013-08-20 09:24:14 PM
i466.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-20 09:25:23 PM

a particular individual: Ranchers want to drive wolves to extinction.


Lol, did we have to clone them for reintroduction?  You are living up to the moron part pretty well with that statement.
 
2013-08-20 09:29:30 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-08-20 09:29:37 PM

Cubicle Jockey: Can you point me to any primary research describing this phenomenon?


Research?  No.  Just personal knowledge

Dillion Montana
Carey, Idaho
 
2013-08-20 09:31:27 PM

SwiftFox: It doesn't occur to the people claiming this that wolves often starve -


I hope you are not meaning me.  in fact, most acknowledge that starvation is one of the population equalizers of wolves.
 
2013-08-20 09:33:44 PM
I'm just surprised that so far nobody but me has blamed dogs. Which will run and kill sheep in just this same way. I know, because we had to put down our German shepherd who was running goats in much this fashion; and my friend in Nevada has seen dogs kill cattle like this and heard it blamed on "coyotes" in the same way. Not saying wolves won't kill sheep, of course; but dogs seems far more likely if there were only two.
 
2013-08-20 09:36:01 PM

ArcadianRefugee: I get ranchers being annoyed, but this is one of the sillier complaints noted;
As the wolves have feasted on the herds, there have been fewer elk for hunters to shoot. "Our hunting has really gone lousy," said Martin Davis ofParadise Valley, Montana, who guides elk hunters in the mountains north of Yellowstone NationalPark.


Actually, that was a huge problem here in Idaho.  So much as they had to completely shut down several areas to elk hunting completely.  This was a blow to the hunters and to the state wildlife funds that are dependent upon this money.  In fact the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation actually got involved.
 
2013-08-20 09:40:42 PM

a particular individual: Only wolves kill ungulates.


no, but they have been scientifically linked to the crash in elk herds in the Lolo and northern Yellowstone herd.  Plus it has been shown that decreases in elk fertility is tied to wolves.
 
2013-08-20 09:42:03 PM

Gyrfalcon: I'm just surprised that so far nobody but me has blamed dogs. Which will run and kill sheep in just this same way. I know, because we had to put down our German shepherd who was running goats in much this fashion; and my friend in Nevada has seen dogs kill cattle like this and heard it blamed on "coyotes" in the same way. Not saying wolves won't kill sheep, of course; but dogs seems far more likely if there were only two.


Blame dogs, an animal known for this kind of behavior, instead of wolves (not really known for this)?

Nubian you crubian!
 
2013-08-20 09:46:41 PM

jayhawk88: Dumber animal: Sheep or chicken?


Sheep, no question about it... Chickens are dumb, but vicious and would survive without us...Sheep are so stupid they have to reminded to breathe...
 
2013-08-20 09:46:59 PM

iaazathot: Yeah, elk decline is largely due to drought, Chronic Wasting Disease, loss of habitat due to humans, and horrible fire seasons.


[citation needed].  make sure that it is specific to the northern Yellowstone herd which has gone from about 14K to about 3.9K. Remember the peak population was during the drought of the mid-90s and I am pretty sure that CWD is not in that herd.
 
2013-08-20 09:49:58 PM
Bullsh*t. Redneck sisterf*cking ranchers blame wolves for what likely was the work of coyotes or wild dogs. Not even a PACK could kill that many sheep. Submitter's a farking moron. Ranchers are farking morons.
 
2013-08-20 09:50:59 PM

meat0918: highendmighty: BenJammin: It must have been werewolves.

Werewolves?

There wolves.

[images.nationalgeographic.com image 850x637]

There Castle

[images3.cliqueclack.com image 512x288]


There winnar.
 
2013-08-20 09:56:21 PM
That seems a little excessive.
 
2013-08-20 09:58:22 PM

Snort: Wake up sheeple!


I LOL'd this morning. Thanks.
 
2013-08-20 09:58:50 PM

doglover: Blame dogs, an animal known for this kind of behavior, instead of wolves (not really known for this)


wolves are not known for killing sheep?  Are you high?
 
2013-08-20 09:59:00 PM

doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.


If my grandma had wheels she'd be a wagon.
The wolves killed the sheep as surely as if they shot them with a gun.
Hey, as long as we're playing "what if", forget rams. If the sheep all had sidearms and combat knives, they could defend themselves.
They could sharpen their hooves and learn hap-ki-do.
 
2013-08-20 09:59:43 PM

BGates: doglover: dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.

Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Upset the natural order and remove all the rams from 100s of ewes and see the power of unnatural fear. If there had been two or three rams, this story would be about one dead sheep or less.

Anyone who blames the wolves here can suck the long dick and choke on it.

And anybody who thinks the introduction of a non-native wolf is good for "nature" is a complete idiot (look in a mirror if you can't figure out I'm talking about your dumb ass).

You want these POS wolves, come get them.  Until you do I will actively shoot every wolf I see.



Meditation

Animals full of light
walk through the forest
toward someone aiming a gun
loaded with darkness.

That's the world: God
holding still
letting it happen again,
and again and again.
 -William Stafford

I hope one day you find peace, BGGates. Such evil can't be good for your soul.
 
2013-08-20 10:00:15 PM

Martin Silenus: Bullsh*t. Redneck sisterf*cking ranchers blame wolves for what likely was the work of coyotes or wild dogs.


Pretty sure this was confirmed with a necropsy by a wildlife agent.  Your wild-ass deflection is just another moron grasping at straws.
 
2013-08-20 10:00:42 PM

HeadLever: ArcadianRefugee: I get ranchers being annoyed, but this is one of the sillier complaints noted;
As the wolves have feasted on the herds, there have been fewer elk for hunters to shoot. "Our hunting has really gone lousy," said Martin Davis ofParadise Valley, Montana, who guides elk hunters in the mountains north of Yellowstone NationalPark.

Actually, that was a huge problem here in Idaho.  So much as they had to completely shut down several areas to elk hunting completely.  This was a blow to the hunters and to the state wildlife funds that are dependent upon this money.  In fact the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation actually got involved.


Somebody else pointed me to an article about that a while back.
And as redneck as it makes me sound, I really want to go on one of those guided elk hunts where you ride horses and stay in a canvas tent, but I digress ...
A lot of folks don't realize don't realize that a large portion of most states conservation budget comes from hunting license fees. I pay close to $100 a year to be allowed to hunt and fish in VA. There are thousands of us who spend that much. And if I want to hunt or fish out of state? Holy crap it gets expensive. $35 for a five day fishing license in OK? I get that there isn't shiat else to do out there so it was worth the money, but damn, thats five bucks less than my yearly instate fishibf license in VA. Out of state licenses for big game in some western states is north of $500 dollars. Before you pay for lodging and/or a guide.
That's big money for sparsely populated western states.
 
2013-08-20 10:01:00 PM

Bucky Katt: That seems a little excessive.


still waiting for the 'that escalated quickly.jpg'
 
2013-08-20 10:02:21 PM

spunkymunky: That's big money for sparsely populated western states.


Idaho did a study about 7 or so years ago where they found they were losing about $24 million per year from the wolves.
 
2013-08-20 10:03:06 PM

HeadLever: wolves are not known for killing sheep?


Not wastefully. Not like this.

And I'm not about to trust a bunch of ranchers who just want to re-exterminate the wolves to make their job easier and will use any excuse to do so to give accurate statements.

Call me when they've got hard proof of something beyond poor animal husbandry and the existence of canines.
 
2013-08-20 10:04:22 PM

doglover: HeadLever: wolves are not known for killing sheep?

Not wastefully. Not like this.

And I'm not about to trust a bunch of ranchers who just want to re-exterminate the wolves to make their job easier and will use any excuse to do so to give accurate statements.

Call me when they've got hard proof of something beyond poor animal husbandry and the existence of canines.


HeadLever is an admitted wolf hunter. Take what he says with a grain of salt and wash your hands after. Scummy and evil.
 
2013-08-20 10:07:23 PM

HeadLever: Idaho did a study about 7 or so years ago where they found they were losing about $24 million per year from the wolves.


All them tax payin' deer and elk, amirite?
 
2013-08-20 10:08:46 PM
Meh.  We have plenty of sheep.  Wolves > sheep.  I don't even wear wool.
 
2013-08-20 10:11:02 PM

HeadLever: Martin Silenus: Bullsh*t. Redneck sisterf*cking ranchers blame wolves for what likely was the work of coyotes or wild dogs.

Pretty sure this was confirmed with a necropsy by a wildlife agent.  Your wild-ass deflection is just another moron grasping at straws.


Better a moron grasping at straws than a monster.
 
2013-08-20 10:12:01 PM

Chinchillazilla: jayhawk88: Dumber animal: Sheep or chicken?

Sheep. By far. A sheep makes a chicken look like Alex the parrot.


It depends on the breed, but on the whole, sheep are smarter than chickens. Sheep have sharp memories, for one thing. They recognize faces -- sheep and human both, in my experience -- and know the difference between people they know and, well, people they don't. As prey animals with a strong flight drive, they are typically wary of strangers (and strange situations), but calm around people they know. They'll still startle, but they won't panic.

They don't have the best spatial reasoning skills, but once they learn a route, they remember it. They're trainable. Halter training? All you need is patience, treats, and time. The friendliest ones really thrive on attention. They're like big dogs, frankly, only they smell better and are less into the whole fetch thing. (That's more of a predator animal activity.)

Chickens aren't stupid -- they're incredibly good survivors, and have a social structure of their own -- but I have yet to see any evidence that they are as intelligent as sheep. Their instincts don't seem to be as complex, nor their memories as long.

I'm not an expert. At all. I just grew up around both species. So... take that as you will.
 
2013-08-20 10:28:20 PM

HeadLever: SwiftFox: It doesn't occur to the people claiming this that wolves often starve -

I hope you are not meaning me.  in fact, most acknowledge that starvation is one of the population equalizers of wolves.


No, but there an amazing number of self-professed experts who act as though the idea this happens is ridiculous. I mean the kind that assume wolves in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming represent the Great Lakes area ones, under that many inches of rain regimen and absent rangeland period, forest and wildlife habitat and private fields around human residences instead, monoculture of whitetail deer as wolf-sized prey, too few of moose and larger to make it worth the wolves learning to hunt the immense moose.

Frankly, I would have thought with fewer fences to confine, this exact type of incident - accident really, the wolves can't possibly have intended domestic sheep stupidity to this level, or intellectually enjoyed watching the sheep smother themselves as opposed to actually biting and so on - would be less likely in the Western US.
 
2013-08-20 10:34:24 PM

HeadLever: grimlock1972: The owner of the herd/flock and his employees are just as much to blame if not more as they failed to adequately protect their livestock.

Why?  Siddoways use guard dogs in the past (still think that they do).  It would be a little cost prohibitive to assign each sheep with a blackwater escort.  They do take steps, but sometimes, the wolves find a way through the defenses.


Beacause if they had done a better job they would only have lost one or two sheep not mass of them that they did.
 
2013-08-20 10:46:09 PM

HeadLever: ficklefkrfark: /wolves should have the right to live, and ranchers should have the right to kill the ones harassing their herds.

That is ultimately my take.  Guard dogs are a tool, but not failsafe.  There is really no failsafe with wolves when you are open range.  It is just a risk that you need to make.


Like any business, there are risks and expenses. How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks. Like, I dunno, David from the Bible of Capitalism?
 
2013-08-20 10:47:41 PM

doglover: Not wastefully. Not like this.


Then you don't pay attention very well.  See the links I posted upthread.  It is a well known fact that wolves will kill more than they can eat.  Your ignorance of such a fact makes me wonder if you are posting this argument because of ignorance or another agenda.
 
2013-08-20 10:55:16 PM

doglover: Call me when they've got hard proof of something beyond poor animal husbandry and the existence of canines.


Ring - Ring.  See the Dillion, Montana incident.  All of those were confirmed with a necropsy by USFWS agents.
 
2013-08-20 10:56:28 PM

HeadLever: It is a well known fact that wolves will kill more than they can eat.


No, that's not a well known fact. It's a well known accusation of ranchers.

Do you not see the difference?
 
2013-08-20 10:57:24 PM

grimlock1972: Beacause if they had done a better job they would only have lost one or two sheep not mass of them that they did.


You really don't know that.  You don't know the circumstances behind the location of where they were or how/when it happened.
 
2013-08-20 10:58:07 PM

doglover: HeadLever: It is a well known fact that wolves will kill more than they can eat.

No, that's not a well known fact. It's a well known accusation of ranchers.

Do you not see the difference?


If it doesn't support his narrative of "wolf bad, control with with gun!" then he doesn't. He's really quite stupid when it comes down to it -- he has the sport hunter's talking points down pat, but approach with other facts... ;)
 
2013-08-20 10:59:41 PM

djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks


They do.  However, with all the other obligations, they can't be there 24/7.  From this article, it sounds like the attack took place at 1:00am.  Again, you have no idea of the circumstances of this.  They may have been 'off thier asses' when this took place.
 
2013-08-20 11:00:49 PM

doglover: No, that's not a well known fact


Maybe not to you.  However, anyone with any experience in the field knows better.
 
2013-08-20 11:02:06 PM

Martin Silenus: If it doesn't support his narrative of "wolf bad, control with with gun!"


You don't need to control with a gun.  It just happens to be the best method of wolf population control.  Oh, and trapping.  We have that here now too.
 
2013-08-20 11:02:40 PM
It's the wolves' land. Ranchers will get reimbursed.
 
2013-08-20 11:04:04 PM

Martin Silenus: -- he has the sport hunter's talking points down pat, but approach with other facts... ;)


You have no facts that you have supplied to this discussion.  Only taking points.  Seems like the only one that is linking to news stories and data is me.
 
2013-08-20 11:05:09 PM

HeadLever: experience in the field


You mean poor animal husbandry skills.
 
2013-08-20 11:05:17 PM
why fer goddsakes wouldn't you have a at least a couple of large shepherding dogs guarding the sheep? Before wolves, weren't there coyotes, mountain lions, feral dogs and thieves trying to get at your livestock?

If I had 2,000 sheep I would invest in a few dogs. Komondor, Great Pyrenees or Anatolian Shepherd, not that rare in the U.S.anymore.
 
2013-08-20 11:05:53 PM

valar_morghulis: Ranchers will get reimbursed.


Sometimes, yes; but not all the time.  For me, I don't mind sharing the land with the wolves.  However, I recognize that they do need to be managed just the same as any other apex predator.
 
2013-08-20 11:06:54 PM

HeadLever: doglover: Blame dogs, an animal known for this kind of behavior, instead of wolves (not really known for this)

wolves are not known for killing sheep?  Are you high?


Wolves don't usually kill sheep like this. Dogs usually do. I've seen and heard reliable reports of dogs running sheep and goats in exactly this fashion, in areas that have no wolves to blame the killings on. Since coyotes can't and don't kill sheep in these numbers, where there are no wolves it MUST be dogs. So why suddenly are wolves solely to blame? What's happening is that mass livestock killings that were formerly not publicized due to being dog killings are now (conveniently) being laid off on wolves so that ranchers and people like yourself who have a hardon for killing wolves will have an excuse.

While I don't doubt that wolves will kill sheep when they get the chance; and I know that wolves sometimes freak out when their prey can't or won't run properly (especially juvenile wolves who go crazy like teenagers anywhere); it seems far more likely to me that given the choice rare predators running sheep and common predators running sheep, the nod should go to the common predators. Or is it your contention that prior to the introduction of wolves, there were no sheep-killings anywhere in Idaho?
 
2013-08-20 11:09:35 PM

HeadLever: I don't mind sharing the land with the wolves


I can tell.
 
2013-08-20 11:11:57 PM

doglover: You mean poor animal husbandry skills.


Not sure what breeding and rearing sheep has to do with protecting them from wolves.  Maybe you don't know the difference between husbandry and shepherding?  It wouldn't suprise me, as you are ignorant on several other well known topics as well.
 
2013-08-20 11:13:38 PM

Egalitarian: why fer goddsakes wouldn't you have a at least a couple of large shepherding dogs guarding the sheep? Before wolves, weren't there coyotes, mountain lions, feral dogs and thieves trying to get at your livestock?

If I had 2,000 sheep I would invest in a few dogs. Komondor, Great Pyrenees or Anatolian Shepherd, not that rare in the U.S.anymore.


They may have.  These ranchers are known to have used them in the past.  However, they have lost quite a few of these dogs to wolves as well and my have gotten tired of spending the money for new ones.
 
2013-08-20 11:14:20 PM

HeadLever: djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks

They do.  However, with all the other obligations, they can't be there 24/7.  From this article, it sounds like the attack took place at 1:00am.  Again, you have no idea of the circumstances of this.  They may have been 'off thier asses' when this took place.


Weird how a 7/11 can keep someone around out 1:00 am.
 
2013-08-20 11:15:47 PM

doglover: I can tell.


No, you probably couldn't as you don't seem to be familiar with my position at all.  You can't seem to get it past your narrow world-view that wolves will joykill on occcasion and need to be managed with any other big game/apex predator.  This does not mean the we need to kill them all.
 
2013-08-20 11:16:53 PM
www.empireonline.com
 
2013-08-20 11:19:06 PM

djkutch: Weird how a 7/11 can keep someone around out 1:00 am.


So they are a gas station now?  That is your argument?  Even if they had somone with the sheep, they could have been scattered out over several hundred square miles, if they were on the open range.  Again, they are not going to hire Blackwater to escort every sheep as they would not be long in buisness.  It is a risk/cost balace they have to take.

It is a risk you cannot avoid if you are a rancher in the mountains.
 
2013-08-20 11:22:44 PM

Gyrfalcon: Wolves don't usually kill sheep like this.


They do a couple times a year here.  I have linked a few episodes upthread where the same thing has happened.  And no, it was not dogs.  It was wolves.  Not sure about this case, but many of them actually have radio collars and they have been pinpointed at these scenes before.  It does typically only happen with sheep and not beef for some reason.
 
2013-08-20 11:32:50 PM

HeadLever: djkutch: Weird how a 7/11 can keep someone around out 1:00 am.

So they are a gas station now?  That is your argument?  Even if they had somone with the sheep, they could have been scattered out over several hundred square miles, if they were on the open range.  Again, they are not going to hire Blackwater to escort every sheep as they would not be long in buisness.  It is a risk/cost balace they have to take.

It is a risk you cannot avoid if you are a rancher in the mountains.


Then stop whining about it.

/born and raised in Idaho. How about you?
 
2013-08-20 11:40:42 PM
It's well known humans will hunt, or go to the supermarket and buy, more food than they can eat at the time.  Sensitive to decomposition, unlike wolves, they usually place the excess in a refrigerator or freezer.
 
2013-08-20 11:41:22 PM
List of some other scenes in the past couple of years that indicate surplus killings
120 sheep killed in Dillion, MT in 2009
31 sheep killed in Carey, ID in 2013
13 sheep killed in Gardener, MT in 2013
23 sheep killed in Keating, OR in 2009
13 sheep killed near Boise, ID in 2010
24 sheep killed in Pinedale, WY in 2010
 
2013-08-20 11:51:47 PM

djkutch: Then stop whining about it.

/born and raised in Idaho. How about you?


Yep.  Born about 35 miles SW from where they let loose the wolves in 1995 in Idaho.  Raised in the Salmon River Mountains which was one of the Idaho epicenter for wolves.  I know ranchers that lost animals and I know several of the USFWS agenst that were in charge of managing the situation.  I know the history and the steps these folks tried to take to limit depredation.  Some of it worked and some of it did not.  I know the declines in the elk herds to the point where they no longer offered elk tags for several units.  We have had elk killed within 100 yards of our house during the night.  I know the fight that the environmenatlist put up to keep the states from having management authority over wolves so they could manage them in conjunction with the big game herds.

You?
 
2013-08-20 11:54:59 PM

djkutch: Then stop whining about it.


Not whining about it.  Just refuting your dumb talking points.  The ranchers know this risk better than you and I.  It doesn't necessarily make them any 'worse' of a rancher if some of their sheep end up as wolf chow during one isolated night.
 
2013-08-20 11:55:49 PM

dee_dubya: Yep, you guys are right. I'll bet the sheep asphyxiated themselves, then the wolves came along and had a snack. No chance the wolves running the sheep caused them to bunch and asphyxiate.


Kinda like "guns don't kill people"?
 
2013-08-20 11:57:58 PM
i ctrl-f'd to make sure and yes, not a single shearing joke in a thread full of sheep puns.

/shear insanity
 
2013-08-20 11:58:17 PM

Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.


FIVE PERCENT.
 
2013-08-21 12:01:17 AM

special20: FIVE PERCENT.


in about an hour.
 
2013-08-21 12:04:27 AM

Sock Ruh Tease: BGates: Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin

People actually say "big-talking city slickers" in places where wolves reign over humans?


Would you prefer dumbass city folk?
 
2013-08-21 12:06:03 AM

HeadLever: djkutch: Then stop whining about it.

Not whining about it.  Just refuting your dumb talking points.  The ranchers know this risk better than you and I.  It doesn't necessarily make them any 'worse' of a rancher if some of their sheep end up as wolf chow during one isolated night.


I never called them "worse", I was merely pointing out the expense of business. 176 sheep dead out of how many thousands? Sounds like a tax write off, yet covered by the government if I'm not mistaken.

What town are you from? I did not know elk tags ever were ever reduced because of predation. Where I lived, elk and deer were fed to avoid population starvation in the winter, despite hunting. I am from Soda Springs in Caribou County.
 
2013-08-21 12:07:33 AM

djkutch: HeadLever: djkutch: Weird how a 7/11 can keep someone around out 1:00 am.

So they are a gas station now?  That is your argument?  Even if they had somone with the sheep, they could have been scattered out over several hundred square miles, if they were on the open range.  Again, they are not going to hire Blackwater to escort every sheep as they would not be long in buisness.  It is a risk/cost balace they have to take.

It is a risk you cannot avoid if you are a rancher in the mountains.

Then stop whining about it.

/born and raised in Idaho. How about you?


Where about?  Also being born somewhere is such an accomplishment.  It takes something special to get somebody from the military, either active duty or a dependent, to choose a place to settle down.  I may have been born in Florida and raised in the PWN but I chose Boise to be my home.
 
2013-08-21 12:07:37 AM

HeadLever: special20: FIVE PERCENT.

in about an hour.


That's the sheep's fault. The wolves only bit 10. Can't blame the wolves for years of inbreeding and docility. Anything that spooks them could cause the same.
 
2013-08-21 12:08:08 AM
Nevermind.  You answered before I hit reply
 
2013-08-21 12:12:03 AM

djkutch: I never called them "worse", I was merely pointing out the expense of business


Sure you were

djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks.

You had the extra, barn wide, paint brush working overtime.
 
2013-08-21 12:14:21 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Nevermind.  You answered before I hit reply


You found the garden. Enjoy it :-)
 
2013-08-21 12:14:24 AM

doglover: That's the sheep's fault.


Partially true, but the context of my argument was in the financial hit to the rancher.  I will agree that the wolves started the stampeed, but did not cause the eventual trainwreck.  That is just sheep being sheep, right there.
 
2013-08-21 12:16:47 AM

HeadLever: djkutch: I never called them "worse", I was merely pointing out the expense of business

Sure you were

djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks.

You had the extra, barn wide, paint brush working overtime.


Still researching where you lived?
 
2013-08-21 12:20:38 AM

djkutch: HeadLever: djkutch: I never called them "worse", I was merely pointing out the expense of business

Sure you were

djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks.

You had the extra, barn wide, paint brush working overtime.

Still researching where you lived?


This may be unfair. I've forgotten common courtesy since living in a big city.
 
2013-08-21 12:20:40 AM

djkutch: What town are you from? I did not know elk tags ever were ever reduced because of predation. Where I lived, elk and deer were fed to avoid population starvation in the winter, despite hunting. I am from Soda Springs in Caribou County.


A dinky town between Challis and Stanley that you probably never heard of.  Population is less than the speed limit.  Went to HS in Challis.
 
2013-08-21 12:23:33 AM

djkutch: I've forgotten common courtesy since living in a big city.


djkutch: djkutch: HeadLever: djkutch: I never called them "worse", I was merely pointing out the expense of business

Sure you were

djkutch: How about the lazy ranchers get of their asses and shepherd their flocks.

You had the extra, barn wide, paint brush working overtime.

Still researching where you lived?

This may be unfair. I've forgotten common courtesy since living in a big city.


Meh, just the byproduct of being on fark with a divisive topic like this.
 
2013-08-21 12:37:29 AM

doglover: HeadLever: special20: FIVE PERCENT.

in about an hour.

That's the sheep's fault. The wolves only bit 10. Can't blame the wolves for years of inbreeding and docility. Anything that spooks them could cause the same.


ok, now this is the stupidest arguement you've made all thread. If the wolves run at the sheep causing them to panic and asphyxiate then the wolf killed them.

If I run at you with a sword, am I attacking you? If you panic and run off a cliff, would I not be responsible for your death?
 
2013-08-21 12:42:09 AM

HeadLever: a particular individual: Ranchers want to drive wolves to extinction.

Lol, did we have to clone them for reintroduction?  You are living up to the moron part pretty well with that statement.


WTF are you yammering about? I get it, you're a rancher, or a rancher wannabe, and you've bought into all the hype about wolves. Whatever. If I want to talk to ignoramus hillbillies, I sure don't have to do it on the Internet. In fact, I'm kind of surprised to be doing so. Now, go to bed. With a sheep.
 
2013-08-21 12:45:49 AM

HeadLever: Plus it has been shown that decreases in elk fertility is tied to wolves.


No, it hasn't. That bit of apocrypha was foisted off on fools by fools. I recently read a report on that nonsense. It turns out that it was completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves.
 
2013-08-21 12:57:57 AM
Firstly, hi obstinate lunkheads of all sides. I like to make good impressions, and if you are offended by what I just said, which I did not include names on, you probably deserved to be offended.

Now then, ... is anyone else missing the fact that the sheep literally killed over 1000% of what the wolves did? SHEEP: THE BANE OF ALL SHEEP.

So, if I have this right, the sheep startled themselves into a bunk, then suffocated. Would a gunshot do that as well? How confined were these sheep that they did their 'defensive huddle' formation SO TIGHT that they suffocated?

Hmm... and regarding Headleaver - why are your numbers like that, in the 'too many sheep killed to be eaten' list you provided; most of them end in the teens, with a few hitting higher and lower... then one that has over a hundred sheep killed. What were the circumstances that lead to such a discrepency between that kill and the others you provided? Was it another strangulation? I would find it very difficult to believe wolves, coyotes, bears, or goats (you know the goats eat ANYTHING, and are heard animals... they have a powerful media arm so you DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT THOUGH o_o) would kill so many sheep; with that many carcasses they wouldn't waste their time killing more, risking injury to procure food that is already plentiful. My best guess is it takes the sheep a bit to die, so they nip and rip a few of them before the sheep start dropping, thus a sort of 'timer game' goes on where a number of sheep are wounded, but not so much so that they are within the wolves threshold for edibility. I could be wrong, I don't know how they hunt, but based on the comments here, it seems like the wolves are attempting to provoke the sheep to run, and doing that by biting.

none of this changes the fact that two wolves shouldn't be able to kill so many in the first place - TWO WOLVES. That is woeful incompetence by the owners of the sheep, a PACK of wolves, sure, ya, that's not really something so easy to manage at 1 am, but you suck as an anything if you let two wolves - TWO - kill 5% of your flock. If it was two Grizzly bears, that'd be different, but this isn't even a pack of wolves... that's just sad. Maybe get better defenses so stray wolves can't pull this kinda stuff, or maybe get less retarded sheep somehow.
 
2013-08-21 02:09:08 AM

Wisdomsage: Firstly, hi obstinate lunkheads of all sides. I like to make good impressions, and if you are offended by what I just said, which I did not include names on, you probably deserved to be offended.

Now then, ... is anyone else missing the fact that the sheep literally killed over 1000% of what the wolves did? SHEEP: THE BANE OF ALL SHEEP.

So, if I have this right, the sheep startled themselves into a bunk, then suffocated. Would a gunshot do that as well? How confined were these sheep that they did their 'defensive huddle' formation SO TIGHT that they suffocated?

Hmm... and regarding Headleaver - why are your numbers like that, in the 'too many sheep killed to be eaten' list you provided; most of them end in the teens, with a few hitting higher and lower... then one that has over a hundred sheep killed. What were the circumstances that lead to such a discrepency between that kill and the others you provided? Was it another strangulation? I would find it very difficult to believe wolves, coyotes, bears, or goats (you know the goats eat ANYTHING, and are heard animals... they have a powerful media arm so you DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT THOUGH o_o) would kill so many sheep; with that many carcasses they wouldn't waste their time killing more, risking injury to procure food that is already plentiful. My best guess is it takes the sheep a bit to die, so they nip and rip a few of them before the sheep start dropping, thus a sort of 'timer game' goes on where a number of sheep are wounded, but not so much so that they are within the wolves threshold for edibility. I could be wrong, I don't know how they hunt, but based on the comments here, it seems like the wolves are attempting to provoke the sheep to run, and doing that by biting.

none of this changes the fact that two wolves shouldn't be able to kill so many in the first place - TWO WOLVES. That is woeful incompetence by the owners of the sheep, a PACK of wolves, sure, ya, that's not really something so easy to manage at 1 am, but you suck as an anything if you let two wolves - TWO - kill 5% of your flock. If it was two Grizzly bears, that'd be different, but this isn't even a pack of wolves... that's just sad. Maybe get better defenses so stray wolves can't pull this kinda stuff, or maybe get less retarded sheep somehow.


I read every last comment in this thread and yours was the only one to use the term "flock". You win.
 
2013-08-21 02:32:39 AM

HeadLever: djkutch: Then stop whining about it.

Not whining about it.  Just refuting your dumb talking points.  The ranchers know this risk better than you and I.  It doesn't necessarily make them any 'worse' of a rancher if some of their sheep end up as wolf chow during one isolated night.


Well sir, I may not totally agree with you on your wolf stance (or probably your political ones) but you have made very rational points, and unlike most of your detractors (including me) I'll give you the benefit of doubt, as you are not championing their eradication and you live in wolf country...so you may have a more hands on opinion.
I hope our country will eventually come to its senses and start finding common ground again.
/I'm looking at you republicans
//and knee jerk democrats....hunting, guns, and agriculture aren't the enemy
 
2013-08-21 04:26:54 AM

HeadLever: grimlock1972: Beacause if they had done a better job they would only have lost one or two sheep not mass of them that they did.

You really don't know that.  You don't know the circumstances behind the location of where they were or how/when it happened.


True enough but its clear no one was there to chase off or kill the wolves to prevent them from harming the sheep. That is the side i would like ot hear what precautions if any were in place to prevent something like this from happening.  I do not expect to hear it though as it is too easy to blame the wolves and hide the rancher's shortcomings in protecting his live stock.

My guess is little to none which is foolish in an area where wolves are known to live and hunt.
 
2013-08-21 07:23:22 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Sock Ruh Tease: BGates: Until you big talking city slickers actually have to deal with these vermin

People actually say "big-talking city slickers" in places where wolves reign over humans?

Would you prefer dumbass city folk?


Well, no, as I'm not dumber than a wolf.
 
2013-08-21 08:14:14 AM

Explodo: And people wonder why ranchers attempted to prevent the wolves from being reintroduced.  That's a significant financial hit.


How do they know it was wolves and not feral dogs, which are more likely to attack and kill just for the hell of it?  And even if it were wolves, when you move in on a predator's natural habitat and either kill or run off it's natural prey, what do you think is going to happen?
 
2013-08-21 09:40:06 AM

a particular individual: No, it hasn't.


You really don't know what you are talking about.
"We knew the presence of wolves caused lower calf-cow ratios, but we didn't know why," he [Scott Creek, Ecology Professor at Montana State University] said. "Radiocollaring calves revealed that calf numbers were low immediately after the birth pulse, suggesting that a decline in the birth rate was part of the population decline."
 
2013-08-21 09:41:14 AM

a particular individual: I recently read a report on that nonsense. It turns out that it was completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves.


Lol, so an ecology professor doesn't have any facts?  lol try agin fool.  Also please cite your source.  I would like to read it.
 
2013-08-21 09:46:58 AM

Wisdomsage: why are your numbers like that, in the 'too many sheep killed to be eaten' list you provided; most of them end in the teens, with a few hitting higher and lower... then one that has over a hundred sheep killed. What were the circumstances that lead to such a discrepency between that kill and the others you provided?

Was it another strangulation?

Those are just the events where over 10 sheep were killed during one time.  There are many more where 1, 2, 5, 8 or so were also killed.  I just pointed out these nubers to support the fact that wolves will surplus kill from time to time.  Regarding your second question, this is the first event that I know of where the sheep were killed during the resulting stampeed.  I am pretty sure that all of the other events I listed upthread were due to direct wolf attacks.  I know that the 120 sheep killed in Dillon, Montana was.
 
2013-08-21 09:51:03 AM

Wisdomsage: with that many carcasses they wouldn't waste their time killing more, risking injury to procure food that is already plentiful.


No, wolves will surplus kill on occasion.  They will also kill just to kill.  I have seen several carcasses where they have killed an elk or deer and outside of the killing wounds, there is not another mark on the carcass.  This usually happens in the winter when the wolves are the strongest and the deer/elk are the weakest.
 
2013-08-21 09:54:15 AM

Wisdomsage: none of this changes the fact that two wolves shouldn't be able to kill so many in the first place - TWO WOLVES. That is woeful incompetence by the owners of the sheep, a PACK of wolves, sure, ya, that's not really something so easy to manage at 1 am, but you suck as an anything if you let two wolves - TWO - kill 5% of your flock.


It was not woeful incompetence of the owners, it was just sheep being sheep.  When you are on open range like this, you cannot prevent sheep from stampeeding themselves to death.  Yes is it unfortunate for the owner, but it really does not reflect on them.  When you own animals that are dumb as a box of rocks, this kind of crap sometimes happens.  It is a risk you take in ranching.
 
2013-08-21 10:02:03 AM

ficklefkrfark: I hope our country will eventually come to its senses and start finding common ground again.


For the most part, the wolf issue had leveled out some with the state now having management and the hunging seasons are starting to have an impact on curbing wolf populations.  In addition, the hunting is pushing them back into the mountains further and has reduced livestock predation in many areas.  Wolves are not dumb and once they get shot at, they tend to stay away.

One of the greatest impacts that I see where I live is that more calf elk and fawn deer are living through the winters.  During this time of the year most of the big game herds move down out of the mountains into the farmers fields and lowland areas.  With the hunting season extending to March 31st, many hunters set up thier 'wolf' patrol' close to where the big game herds are wintering.  This has afforded them some additional protection they did not have back when wolves were listed under the Endangered Species Act.  This has appeared to really help the cow:calf and doe:fawn ratios in the last couple of years.

I think that if these trends continue, this issue will be pretty much settled, with a few on the fringes (both on the enviro side and on the kill em all side) still throwing a fit.
 
2013-08-21 10:04:25 AM

grimlock1972: True enough but its clear no one was there to chase off or kill the wolves to prevent them from harming the sheep.


Not sure.  Maybe they had guard dogs (they have been known to use them in the past).  Maybe they or a hired had was there but was too far away to get there in time.
 
2013-08-21 10:07:38 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: How do they know it was wolves and not feral dogs, which are more likely to attack and kill just for the hell of it?


I am sure a necropsy was performed in order to make that determination. couple that with tracks and scat, and don't forget that many wolves are collared so they can usually track location.
 
2013-08-21 10:38:48 AM
HeadLever, I have to ask.  Are you teaching at BSU?
 
2013-08-21 10:43:18 AM

Smeggy Smurf: HeadLever, I have to ask. Are you teaching at BSU?


Nope, gainfully employeed with an engineering firm downtown near the green belt.
 
2013-08-21 10:45:03 AM

farkingismybusiness: [www.hipsterwave.com image 593x393]
Odd Future Wolf Gang Kill Them All.


I vote this one the funniest - where is the button?
 
2013-08-21 11:56:17 AM

doglover: Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.


Heh, I did not see this 'gem O' knowledge' earlier.  So you think that rams would have made the difference here?  Have you ever been on a farm even once in your life?

Want to know something?  The night in Dillion, Montana where about 120 sheep were killed in one night?  Yeah, they were all purebred Rambouillet rams.  They ran from wolves.  They were killed by the dozen.  Not sure where you are pulling these dumb arguemnts from.  Oh, wait, yes I do - your butt.
 
2013-08-21 12:13:53 PM

HeadLever: grimlock1972: True enough but its clear no one was there to chase off or kill the wolves to prevent them from harming the sheep.

Not sure.  Maybe they had guard dogs (they have been known to use them in the past).  Maybe they or a hired had was there but was too far away to get there in time.


Either way the owner of the  flock must have been aware of the risks as it no secret wolves live in that area.
 
2013-08-21 12:15:38 PM

Wake Up Sheeple: Snort: Wake up sheeple!

I LOL'd this morning. Thanks.


Glad to be of service.
 
2013-08-21 12:19:05 PM

HeadLever: doglover: Rams don't run from wolves. They're called rams, like the verb, because they farking ram things. They're basically a short temper on legs.

Heh, I did not see this 'gem O' knowledge' earlier.  So you think that rams would have made the difference here?  Have you ever been on a farm even once in your life?

Want to know something?  The night in Dillion, Montana where about 120 sheep were killed in one night?  Yeah, they were all purebred Rambouillet rams.  They ran from wolves.  They were killed by the dozen.  Not sure where you are pulling these dumb arguemnts from.  Oh, wait, yes I do - your butt.


BOOM! HeadLever Shot!!
 
2013-08-21 12:37:46 PM
Probably this
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/archive/2006/06_06_15.html

Volcanic gas vents release gas and the herd animals die.  A few hours later the wolves come around for the free meal. Happens Yellowstone often enough. Alfred the Hedgehog could have solved this one for them.
 
2013-08-21 01:05:22 PM
I didn't realize there were that many Idaho farkers.  Raised but not born here.  I've never understood the pride of saying where one was born anyway.  None of us had that choice.
 
2013-08-21 01:44:23 PM

grimlock1972: Either way the owner of the flock must have been aware of the risks as it no secret wolves live in that area.


Yeah, they know the risks.  However,this magnitude of loss is pretty much unprecidented.  I pay attention to this type of stuff, and I have never seen so many sheep die at one time because of wolves.  From the rancher standpoint, it all comes down to cost/magnitude of protection verses frequency/cost of predation.
 
2013-08-21 01:51:14 PM

HeadLever: a particular individual: No, it hasn't.

You really don't know what you are talking about.
"We knew the presence of wolves caused lower calf-cow ratios, but we didn't know why," he [Scott Creek, Ecology Professor at Montana State University] said. "Radiocollaring calves revealed that calf numbers were low immediately after the birth pulse, suggesting that a decline in the birth rate was part of the population decline."


I like cake. Your argument is invalid.
 
2013-08-21 01:52:49 PM
Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?
 
2013-08-21 01:56:45 PM
a particular individual: I like cake.

That is just about the only argument you have offered in this thread that is not patently false. 

/are we rounding a corner?
 
2013-08-21 01:57:56 PM

a particular individual: Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?


Just damming up the flood of ignorace, son.   Someone has to do it.
 
2013-08-21 02:14:38 PM

a particular individual: Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?


If by obnoxious you mean replying to posts with calm, reasonable replies, backed up with citations when applicable and not resorting to immature ranting and name calling, then yes, he's a real dickhead.
 
2013-08-21 02:37:00 PM

a particular individual: Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?


By the way, have you come up with that mysterious report that  shows my earlier point to be 'nonsense and completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves'?

Or did you just pull that argument out of your butt as well?  Again, if it does exist (other than just in your mind), I would like to read it.
 
2013-08-21 03:21:44 PM

HeadLever: a particular individual: Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?

By the way, have you come up with that mysterious report that  shows my earlier point to be 'nonsense and completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves'?


Why, yes. Yes, I did. Here: (Although in my experience, fanatics like you will never, ever change their minds regardless of the information they're presented with. It's what makes you a fanatic.)

Low pregnancy rates in elk not due to wolves

Wolves are not responsible for low pregnancy rates in elk, according to a new study published today in the scientific journal Ecology Letters.

The research, led by recent University of Wyoming Phd graduate Arthur Middleton, shows that elk don't respond frequently enough to wolves to impact body fat and pregnancy rates. Wolves' impact on elk populations is limited to direct predation, not harassment or stress that leads to lower pregnancy rates or poor body composition. Middleton was studying the Clarks Fork elk herd near Cody when he and other scientists noticed the dramatically low pregnancy rate of the herd. The first year it was only 59 percent. The average of that year and the subsequent three years was about 70 percent. A normal pregnancy rate for Rocky Mountain Elk is about 90 percent, Middleton said. "That was very eye opening," Middleton said. "We knew we had something we needed to understand better." Middleton, along with the Wyoming Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit, a U.S. Geological Survey program housed at the University of Wyoming, wanted to know if the low pregnancy rate could be due to the wolves in the area.

 See more at: http://wyofile.com/kelsey-dayton/low-pregnancy-rates-in-elk-not-due-t o -wolves/#sthash.DqVuD4tU.dpuf
 
2013-08-21 03:27:14 PM

HeadLever: a particular individual: Is it just me, or is HeadLever flooding the board in a most obnoxious manner?

By the way, have you come up with that mysterious report that  shows my earlier point to be 'nonsense and completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves'?


I especially like this part:

"Large predators, like grizzly bears and wolves, elicit emotional responses from people who are quick to attribute and blame changes on the animals. Studies like this, through the University of Wyoming, show what is really happening in the ecosystem. Kilpatrick said he was not surprised to learn the low pregnancy rates were not due to stress from wolves. Other animals, like moose, are also experiencing low pregnancy rates. It speaks to a larger issue about nutrition and drought, he said.
 
2013-08-21 03:40:59 PM

a particular individual: The research, led by recent University of Wyoming Phd graduate Arthur Middleton, shows that elk don't respond frequently enough to wolves to impact body fat and pregnancy rates. Wolves' impact on elk populations is limited to direct predation, not harassment or stress that leads to lower pregnancy rates or poor body composition. Middleton was studying the Clarks Fork elk herd near Cody when he and other scientists noticed the dramatically low pregnancy rate of the herd. The first year it was only 59 percent. The average of that year and the subsequent three years was about 70 percent. A normal pregnancy rate for Rocky Mountain Elk is about 90 percent, Middleton said. "That was very eye opening," Middleton said. "We knew we had something we needed to understand better." Middleton, along with the Wyoming Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit, a U.S. Geological Survey program housed at the University of Wyoming, wanted to know if the low pregnancy rate could be due to the wolves in the area.

See more at: http://wyofile.com/kelsey-dayton/low-pregnancy-rates-in-elk-not-due-t o -wolves/#sthash.DqVuD4tU.dpuf



Per your own link:This finding differs from some previous studies that indicated wolves influence elk behavior strongly enough to contribute to region-wide declines in calf production.

So basically, this study differs from others showing that it does impact pregancy rate.

Also per your link: The low pregnancy rates are most likely due to drought, but more research is needed, including a look at a more regional scale, Middleton said.

So this link does suggest that lower pregancy rages are not due to wolves, but it only looked at one isolated elk herd which is why they say they need more research.  So in this regard you would be correct for one herd.  However, you cannot say that this applies to all elk in the west until said more research is done.

/good job at finally backing up your assertions, BTW.
 
2013-08-21 03:43:53 PM

a particular individual: Why, yes. Yes, I did


Oh, and I forgot to add that nowhere in this study did they point to a contrary position to be 'nonsense and completely made up by people who don't have any facts to back up their hysterical hatred of wolves' .In fact they point to contrary studies simply conflicting studies.  Nothing about made up facts or hysterical hatred.

That I assume did come from your butt.
 
2013-08-21 03:47:01 PM

a particular individual: I especially like this part:

"Large predators, like grizzly bears and wolves, elicit emotional responses from people who are quick to attribute and blame changes on the animals.


Yeah, I have seen this angle as well.  It is just as annoying as those that stick their head in the sand and can't acknowledge under any circumstance that wolves do have an impact on big game herds and livestock.
 
2013-08-21 04:08:29 PM

HeadLever: Also per your link: The low pregnancy rates are most likely due to drought, but more research is needed, including a look at a more regional scale, Middleton said.


Also, I would like to look at this drought assertion cited in the study a bit more.  I am not too sold on this argument.  Back in the early 90s were some of the biggest drought years on record here in the intermountain west and elk populations and Cow:Calf ratios were very high.  During the 2000s, we had much more average rainfall (outside of 2001-2002 and 2005 anyway) but yet populations were falling and cow:calf ratios were very low.
 
2013-08-21 04:09:35 PM

HeadLever: a particular individual: I especially like this part:

"Large predators, like grizzly bears and wolves, elicit emotional responses from people who are quick to attribute and blame changes on the animals.

Yeah, I have seen this angle as well.  It is just as annoying as those that stick their head in the sand and can't acknowledge under any circumstance that wolves do have an impact on big game herds and livestock.


As I predicted, your fanatical hatred of wolves blinds you to all information contrary to your prejudices. You don't care about facts; you just redefine your terms so you can continue to be comfortable in your hatred. Thank you for conforming to my prejudices. I will now feel comfortable in my hatred for you and your arrogant, self-righteous ignorance.

Asshole.
 
2013-08-21 04:41:28 PM

a particular individual: As I predicted, your fanatical hatred of wolves blinds you to all information contrary to your prejudices


What information in the quoted section has information contrary to my predudices?  I just agreed with it.  Or did you not understand what I said?  Maybe you don't speak English?

Pointing out the other extreme is not being blind in any way, shape, or form.
 
2013-08-21 04:54:20 PM

HeadLever: When you are on open range like this, you cannot prevent sheep from stampeeding themselves to death. . . . When you own animals that are dumb as a box of rocks, this kind of crap sometimes happens.


I'll just leave this here.
 
2013-08-21 10:02:01 PM

HeadLever: Smeggy Smurf: HeadLever, I have to ask. Are you teaching at BSU?

Nope, gainfully employeed with an engineering firm downtown near the green belt.


No shiat.  I ought to buy you a beer one day for these wolf threads.  Good work.
 
Displayed 337 of 337 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report