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(Daily Mail)   Old and busted: "I'm just big-boned." New hotness: "My hormones are just misfiring"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, hormones, fatty acids  
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2752 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Aug 2013 at 7:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-20 06:39:29 PM  
'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?
 
2013-08-20 06:52:06 PM  
Shouldn't that be hormoones?
 
2013-08-20 07:11:40 PM  

Slaxl: 'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?


As someone who was on the cusp of Type II diabetes before I started a miserable regimen of losing weight, it's worse than you think.  Not only do you not feel full, you feel hungry more often, and you feel hungrier when you do.  If you exercise you feel like you're starving, so you're inclined to eat more as you try to lose weight.  It's like your body is sabotaging every effort you make to lose weight.  Exercise drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Eating less drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Then when you do eat, you don't feel satisfied.  It's bizarre, and I can sympathize with people who struggle to lose weight.  It's a long, hard slog to get back to the point where your body isn't playing tricks on you.

I'm 5'11".  At my heaviest I was at 215, and my head wouldn't let me go 12 hours without eating unless I was asleep.  Even though I knew I shouldn't be hungry from every rational perspective, it was there, all the goddamn time.  The trick to losing weight wasn't working out - it was resolving to go hungry, all the time, until my weight was back under control.  Now I'm back down to 170, and I'm not hungry all the time.  I can wake up and if I eat breakfast, I won't feel hungry again until dinner.

For me, weight loss was slow and miserable from 215 until about 190.  It took almost a year, I exercised at least an hour 4 times a week (frequently more), and I was hungry and moody all the time.  I would ruin the overall diet by being good for 6 days and then on the seventh going on a food binge that would rival any heroin relapse.  Then something magical happened - I wasn't hungry anymore.  190 to 170 took about two months, and I shotgunned past 170 to 160 for a bit and then normalized back at 170.

Now, it's not something I have to think about.  I've never eaten when I wasn't hungry, and I'm not hungry all the time anymore.

It is farked up how your body will trick you when you are fat.  Even worse, once you get to my high weight, low carb diets won't necessarily work anymore because your resting blood sugar level is too high.

So yeah, it's harder than you think.  You're also more likely to cross that line as you get older even if you have a healthy diet.  Ultimately, it's calories in, calories out, except your hormones CAN (not necessarily will) work against you in two ways:  you're hungry all the time, and your resting metabolic rate is lower than it would be if you were thin.  It's the worst of both worlds.
 
2013-08-20 07:44:13 PM  

Lsherm: Slaxl: 'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?

As someone who was on the cusp of Type II diabetes before I started a miserable regimen of losing weight, it's worse than you think.


True dat.  I'm obese, trying desperately to lose weight by going to the gym 3 days a week and eating low carb, and it really truly sucks.

One thing other people don't seem to understand is the whole, "why do you eat all the time, and eat so much, when you can't possibly be hungry?"  All I can say is, my brain is constantly - yes, constantly - getting "hungry" signals.  Or sending them.  Whatever.  One part of my brain is constantly going around and around,
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"EAT SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE, I'M HUNGRY!"
"I just ate half an hour ago."
"HUNGRY."
"Shutup."
"HUNGRY."
"Shut UP."
"HUNGRY."
"SHUT THE F*CK UP!"

It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."
 
2013-08-20 07:48:37 PM  
Could we add a switch somewhere so people can disconnect their gut from their brain? Would be useful for nausea as well.
 
2013-08-20 07:48:39 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lsherm: Slaxl: 'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?

As someone who was on the cusp of Type II diabetes before I started a miserable regimen of losing weight, it's worse than you think.

True dat.  I'm obese, trying desperately to lose weight by going to the gym 3 days a week and eating low carb, and it really truly sucks.

One thing other people don't seem to understand is the whole, "why do you eat all the time, and eat so much, when you can't possibly be hungry?"  All I can say is, my brain is constantly - yes, constantly - getting "hungry" signals.  Or sending them.  Whatever.  One part of my brain is constantly going around and around,
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"I'm hungry"
"No, you're not."
"EAT SOMETHING FOR GOD'S SAKE, I'M HUNGRY!"
"I just ate half an hour ago."
"HUNGRY."
"Shutup."
"HUNGRY."
"Shut UP."
"HUNGRY."
"SHUT THE F*CK UP!"

It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."


Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.
 
2013-08-20 07:50:22 PM  
go be hormonal somewhere else?
 
2013-08-20 08:02:30 PM  

Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.


I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.
 
2013-08-20 08:08:47 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."


Metformin did it for me.  I wasn't diabetic, but I was "pre-diabetic," so I had to beg the doctor to put me on it, and even then insurance wouldn't cover it.  It's generic though, so it's cheap.  All it did was help level out the spikes and let me get my blood sugar levels down low enough after exercise to actually burn fat.  It didn't really help with the hunger.  You just have to suffer through that shiat, and there's no easy way around it.  I slept quite a bit just to keep off the food.
 
2013-08-20 08:09:45 PM  
9 out of 10 of you fatties out there: You eat a lot, and you don't exercise enough. It is your fault. You can do something about it on your own that does not require a ton of money. Eat smaller portions of healthy food and at least go for a walk. You'll never be that skinny 20 year old again, but you might not die of a coronary in your mid 50s.

It is unlikely that you are the 1 in 10 that can't help it. If I can get off my lazy ass to fix the problem, you can too.
 
2013-08-20 08:11:30 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

RTFA.

Who asked for your advice?  Fark you.  I'm on the eating plan that I'm told should help with the glugacon/insulin/leptin/ghrelin response, which will both level out my hormonal levels and give my body less ammo to turn to fat.  Until you show me better science than what I'm getting, you can take your ages-old, non-proven, hasn't-really-worked-long-term-for-any-obese-person-ever "eat more broccoli" and shove it up your ass.


You sound angry, maybe go eat things until you'll feel better.

Lsherm: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.


Pretty much the same experience. Every time I felt hungry I ate celery until I couldn't stand to look at food anymore. Yea it sucked but after 6-8 months my body readjusted to feeling full.  I lost a ton of weight and kept it off for the last decade. Looking back it is scary how unhealthy I was and how many excuses I made for not being able to lose weight.
 
2013-08-20 08:14:28 PM  

Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."

Metformin did it for me.  I wasn't diabetic, but I was "pre-diabetic," so I had to beg the doctor to put me on it, and even then insurance wouldn't cover it.  It's generic though, so it's cheap.  All it did was help level out the spikes and let me get my blood sugar levels down low enough after exercise to actually burn fat.  It didn't really help with the hunger.  You just have to suffer through that shiat, and there's no easy way around it.  I slept quite a bit just to keep off the food.


I'm in Canada.  No dice to that crap, I could barely get my doc to do the farking blood panel.  Nigerian asshole still has 1950s ideas of how obesity works, thinks it's entirely calories in/calories out.  His Weeners to me saying I wanted help was to tell me I should get ready to have weight loss surgery.
 
2013-08-20 08:18:48 PM  
You're not hungry, you're thirsty or bored.  Drink water, find something else to do, get up and walk around for a bit. Still hungry? Okay, maybe you're legit hungry then. Go eat something, but don't wait for your body to tell you you're full. Chemicals are slow, so be smarter than your body.

Tell yourself you have eaten enough, as opposed to waiting for the signal. Take control of your life.
 
2013-08-20 08:20:18 PM  
LOL - filtowned.  It's been a while.
 
2013-08-20 08:20:21 PM  
All I know is that harshing on fatties is one of the only ways I can feel better about what a shiatty human being I am, so I don't care what their excuses are.
 
2013-08-20 08:24:50 PM  

Kingly Weevil: You're not hungry, you're thirsty or bored.  Drink water, find something else to do, get up and walk around for a bit. Still hungry? Okay, maybe you're legit hungry then. Go eat something, but don't wait for your body to tell you you're full. Chemicals are slow, so be smarter than your body.

Tell yourself you have eaten enough, as opposed to waiting for the signal. Take control of your life.



Oh, I give up.  I should know by now, any thread about weight loss, no matter what TFA says, is immediately an advice thread to the stoopit fatties who don't now how to stop eating or what to eat when they do.
 
2013-08-20 08:25:00 PM  
Mine to but I'm still not fat
 
2013-08-20 08:36:55 PM  
Dammit now I want that cake, BRB.
 
2013-08-20 08:37:10 PM  
This confirms what I've long suspected - fat people are fat because they are more hungry.
 
2013-08-20 08:38:10 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Kingly Weevil: You're not hungry, you're thirsty or bored.  Drink water, find something else to do, get up and walk around for a bit. Still hungry? Okay, maybe you're legit hungry then. Go eat something, but don't wait for your body to tell you you're full. Chemicals are slow, so be smarter than your body.

Tell yourself you have eaten enough, as opposed to waiting for the signal. Take control of your life.


Oh, I give up.  I should know by now, any thread about weight loss, no matter what TFA says, is immediately an advice thread to the stoopit fatties who don't now how to stop eating or what to eat when they do.


Really? Because I thought I was just doomed to be fat until I decided that I wasn't going to let a physiological feeling rule my life.

So I went from weighing 255 to 180 over the last nine months or so. So I would say it's pretty effective advice.  Being hungry is kind of like having to poop pretty bad. If you wait long enough, the feeling goes away.
 
2013-08-20 08:45:50 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh, I give up.  I should know by now, any thread about weight loss, no matter what TFA says, is immediately an advice thread to the stoopit fatties who don't now how to stop eating or what to eat when they do.


That would be because there are so many fat people out there trying to blame everyone and everything but themselves for being fat. If you note the first bullet point on the article, that hormone "loses its ability to help obese people feel full after a meal". It doesn't say it "stops functioning at random and makes healthy people eat themselves to obesity". This is another reason to not let yourself become obese, not the reason people become obese.
 
2013-08-20 08:52:55 PM  

Lsherm: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.


That's one of the funniest things I've ever read
 
2013-08-20 08:54:27 PM  
I usually stop eating before I feel full, so I'm getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2013-08-20 09:25:23 PM  
I discovered that as much as I loathe exercise and have been unable to keep up with any fitness program due to how much it sucked, that combining a recumbent bike with video games is an amazing success for me.

I've been doing this 60 minutes a day, six days a week, with a heart rate 140+ for the duration and not only am I seeing crazy fast results, but it's not annoying or a chore.  The key being the games, they distract my brain from how uncomfortable the exertion is and makes the hour just fly by, and I no longer feel like I'm "wasting" that hour of my evening after I get home late from work.  The fact that I'm doing a pretty high intensity cardio workout (I sweat buckets, there's a pool on the mat when I'm done) means my diet doesn't really need to change much - same food just slightly smaller portions (and one indulging day of the week - giant pizza and tub of ice cream, something like that).

A side effect is I'm also actually making steady progress through my PS3 and Steam backlog, and soon will be using that time to get some MMO grinding done (since a recumbent keeps your arms stationary, it's no more uncomfortable to use a G13+Mouse than at a desk).  A microphone lets me chat with friends when doing team stuff.

Sounds goofy, looks sorta goofy, but damn if it doesn't work for me.  20 pounds in 8 weeks gone, 25 more to go.

/YMMV
//off to play Saints Row IV for an hour
///while biking
 
2013-08-20 09:34:27 PM  
All it takes is a trip to Walmart to see that there are a LOT of people who are horribly obese and it's THEIR FAULT. In most towns they are chock full of 300 lb+ people riding on scooters, loading up their basket with junk food and booze. Not carrots. Not lean meats. Not flatbread or rice... But family-sized boxes of Pop Tarts, bulk candy, gigantic bags of chips, and TV dinners, along with nasty stuff like Velveeta, which is basically a loaf of cheese scrapings and lard, which they no doubt use along with Fritos and WIC baby food to make casseroles. These folks NEVER look at the labels to see what's in their food. They could probably just give these farkers a HFCS IV-drip and call it good,

If you're that fat, it's time to put down the Velveeta-and-bacon sandwich, give up the king-sized Moon Pie, and get yourself some fruit and vegetables... maybe a nice baked chicken breast (without smothering it in sauce) and some rice or beans (again, not covered in HFCS-loaded barbecue sauce). And only eat ONE serving.

There are "big boned" people out there. There's nothing wrong with being a little big... But when your thigh is bigger than most people's midsection, it's time to take a good look at what you're doing to be that way.

Oh, and also: GET OUT OF THE FARKING SCOOTER, YOU LAZY, FAT FARKS.  You might burn a few calories if you didn't wheel around the grocery store.
 
2013-08-20 09:37:56 PM  

Cytokine Storm: I discovered that as much as I loathe exercise and have been unable to keep up with any fitness program due to how much it sucked, that combining a recumbent bike with video games is an amazing success for me.

I've been doing this 60 minutes a day, six days a week, with a heart rate 140+ for the duration and not only am I seeing crazy fast results, but it's not annoying or a chore.  The key being the games, they distract my brain from how uncomfortable the exertion is and makes the hour just fly by, and I no longer feel like I'm "wasting" that hour of my evening after I get home late from work.  The fact that I'm doing a pretty high intensity cardio workout (I sweat buckets, there's a pool on the mat when I'm done) means my diet doesn't really need to change much - same food just slightly smaller portions (and one indulging day of the week - giant pizza and tub of ice cream, something like that).

A side effect is I'm also actually making steady progress through my PS3 and Steam backlog, and soon will be using that time to get some MMO grinding done (since a recumbent keeps your arms stationary, it's no more uncomfortable to use a G13+Mouse than at a desk).  A microphone lets me chat with friends when doing team stuff.

Sounds goofy, looks sorta goofy, but damn if it doesn't work for me.  20 pounds in 8 weeks gone, 25 more to go.

/YMMV
//off to play Saints Row IV for an hour
///while biking


You workout...while playing games?

/Subscription to your newsletter please
//Started running again 2 months ago, getting prepped for my first 5k.
///If I could do that and play games...oh god.
 
2013-08-20 09:53:40 PM  

Lsherm: Slaxl: 'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?

As someone who was on the cusp of Type II diabetes before I started a miserable regimen of losing weight, it's worse than you think.  Not only do you not feel full, you feel hungry more often, and you feel hungrier when you do.  If you exercise you feel like you're starving, so you're inclined to eat more as you try to lose weight.  It's like your body is sabotaging every effort you make to lose weight.  Exercise drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Eating less drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Then when you do eat, you don't feel satisfied.  It's bizarre, and I can sympathize with people who struggle to lose weight.  It's a long, hard slog to get back to the point where your body isn't playing tricks on you.

I'm 5'11".  At my heaviest I was at 215, and my head wouldn't let me go 12 hours without eating unless I was asleep.  Even though I knew I shouldn't be hungry from every rational perspective, it was there, all the goddamn time.  The trick to losing weight wasn't working out - it was resolving to go hungry, all the time, until my weight was back under control.  Now I'm back down to 170, and I'm not hungry all the time.  I can wake up and if I eat breakfast, I won't feel hungry again until dinner.

For me, weight loss was slow and miserable from 215 until about 190.  It took almost a year, I exercised at least an hour 4 times a week (frequently more), and I was hungry and moody all the time.  I would ruin the overa ...


I commend you for your progress, but I'm really surprised to hear how difficult it was. 215 on me (same height as you) looks a little beefy, but it is not distinctly obese where I would assume it crosses over into "hormonal issue" territory. Maybe I'm lucky: it didn't take much work to drop to 195, and I didn't have hunger pangs beyond a day or two. Granted, I adjusted calories by only 20%, and I already work out 5-7 days a week. However, it has been challenging dropping below 195 lbs, mainly because my cheating habits (beer) prevent me from maintaining a caloric deficit. My primary goal is 183 lbs, and my stretch goal is 173 lbs (estimated 12% body fat).

It IS frustrating that I work out as much as I do and only have a 2360-calorie maintenance level, at 30. I shudder to think how much worse it will get as I lose weight, too. You may think otherwise, but a heavy person at a higher weight always has a higher maintenance level than a slimmer person. Maintenance level is primarily dictated by overall mass and is scarcely affected by body composition.
 
2013-08-20 10:21:51 PM  
Yeah, the hormone that tells you to put the farking fork down?
 
2013-08-20 10:26:14 PM  

Lsherm: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.


Yeah, that is total bullshiat right there (source: mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/NU00195 ).

Vegetables make you feel full. They have fiber (which helps make you feel full) and are very low calorie for the volume. That is why they are excellent for weight loss. Water is another nice thing for that since it fills you up.

Broccoli (bought frozen, cooked and boiled) has 8 calories per ounce. That means for a lb, it is a whopping 128 calories. Do you know how much 1 lb of broccoli is? It is quite a bit.

Source: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products / 2359/2

Another great weight-loss food is beans. Very high fiber and low calorie (can of black beans has ~24 g of protein and only 350 calories or so, along with nearly all of your daily fiber requirement).
 
2013-08-20 10:35:59 PM  

machoprogrammer: Lsherm: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.

Yeah, that is total bullshiat right there (source: mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/NU00195 ).

Vegetables make you feel full. They have fiber (which helps make you feel full) and are very low calorie for the volume. That is why they are excellent for weight loss. Water is another nice thing for that since it fills you up.

Broccoli (bought frozen, cooked and boiled) has 8 calories per ounce. That means for a lb, it is a whopping 128 calories. Do you know how much 1 lb of broccoli is? It is quite a bit.

Source: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products / 2359/2

Another great weight-loss food is beans. Very high fiber and low calorie (can of black beans has ~24 g of protein and only 350 calories or so, along with nearly all of your daily fiber requirement).


You have an amazing way of not reading anything you post along with an obnoxious amount of "I'm right" in order to prove yourself wrong.

Read some more, or don't.
 
2013-08-20 10:36:16 PM  

Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."

Metformin did it for me.  I wasn't diabetic, but I was "pre-diabetic," so I had to beg the doctor to put me on it, and even then insurance wouldn't cover it.  It's generic though, so it's cheap.  All it did was help level out the spikes and let me get my blood sugar levels down low enough after exercise to actually burn fat.  It didn't really help with the hunger.  You just have to suffer through that shiat, and there's no easy way around it.  I slept quite a bit just to keep off the food.


Metformin is awesome. I wasn't very overweight but I do have PCOS; not only did it straighten that out but it stopped the constant "Eat something, eat something, eat something," signals. And when it didn't, herbal tea helps a lot; it has a flavour but no calories worth mentioning.
 
2013-08-20 10:38:20 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."

Metformin did it for me.  I wasn't diabetic, but I was "pre-diabetic," so I had to beg the doctor to put me on it, and even then insurance wouldn't cover it.  It's generic though, so it's cheap.  All it did was help level out the spikes and let me get my blood sugar levels down low enough after exercise to actually burn fat.  It didn't really help with the hunger.  You just have to suffer through that shiat, and there's no easy way around it.  I slept quite a bit just to keep off the food.

I'm in Canada.  No dice to that crap, I could barely get my doc to do the farking blood panel.  Nigerian asshole still has 1950s ideas of how obesity works, thinks it's entirely calories in/calories out.  His Weeners to me saying I wanted help was to tell me I should get ready to have weight loss surgery.


You can't get Metformin in Canada? WTF? I thought Canada was supposed to be the Land Of Reasonably-Priced Pharmaceuticals (though Metformin's pretty cheap regardless).
 
2013-08-20 10:40:34 PM  
I kid you not: my anatomy teacher said that headline, just not in meme form.
 
2013-08-20 10:40:54 PM  

Fonaibung: I commend you for your progress, but I'm really surprised to hear how difficult it was. 215 on me (same height as you) looks a little beefy, but it is not distinctly obese where I would assume it crosses over into "hormonal issue" territory. Maybe I'm lucky: it didn't take much work to drop to 195, and I didn't have hunger pangs beyond a day or two. Granted, I adjusted calories by only 20%, and I already work out 5-7 days a week. However, it has been challenging dropping below 195 lbs, mainly because my cheating habits (beer) prevent me from maintaining a caloric deficit. My primary goal is 183 lbs, and my stretch goal is 173 lbs (estimated 12% body fat).

It IS frustrating that I work out as much as I do and only have a 2360-calorie maintenance level, at 30. I shudder to think how much worse it will get as I lose weight, too. You may think otherwise, but a heavy person at a higher weight always has a higher maintenance level than a slimmer person. Maintenance level is primarily dictated by overall mass and is scarcely affected by body composition.


I was 40 when I started.  You have to quit alcohol altogether, or include it as a food group.

If you're 5'11" and 215, you're obese unless you are a "weightlifter."  And everyone considers themselves a weightlifter at 30 years old.  Good luck pulling that off at 40.
 
2013-08-20 10:42:11 PM  

RenownedCurator: Benevolent Misanthrope: Lsherm: Benevolent Misanthrope: It well and truly sucks.  What really chaps my ass is that, if I were that way about hand washing or locking the door, my doc would give me drugs to help.  As it stands, doctors look at fat people and say, "You're a lazy undisciplined slob, and it's your own fault for being fat, so pay me and get the fark out of my office, and stop eating so much."

Metformin did it for me.  I wasn't diabetic, but I was "pre-diabetic," so I had to beg the doctor to put me on it, and even then insurance wouldn't cover it.  It's generic though, so it's cheap.  All it did was help level out the spikes and let me get my blood sugar levels down low enough after exercise to actually burn fat.  It didn't really help with the hunger.  You just have to suffer through that shiat, and there's no easy way around it.  I slept quite a bit just to keep off the food.

I'm in Canada.  No dice to that crap, I could barely get my doc to do the farking blood panel.  Nigerian asshole still has 1950s ideas of how obesity works, thinks it's entirely calories in/calories out.  His Weeners to me saying I wanted help was to tell me I should get ready to have weight loss surgery.

You can't get Metformin in Canada? WTF? I thought Canada was supposed to be the Land Of Reasonably-Priced Pharmaceuticals (though Metformin's pretty cheap regardless).


Metformin is generic the world over, but insurance won't pay for it the world over.  They can get it, but a doctor might not recommend it.
 
2013-08-20 10:55:57 PM  

machoprogrammer: Lsherm: Carth: Eat more vegetables. You know how much broccoli you can eat if you're feeling hungry? If your diet isn't right it doesn't matter how much you go to the gym. You can't out run a bad diet.

I ate tons of broccoli.  It doesn't raise your blood sugar, so you feel even less full.  "Full" isn't just that your stomach is full of food - it has to register in your brain.

You do crap like an Olympic champion, though.  I was going through at least a pound of broccoli a day and at one point I wanted to wake up my wife and show her what I did one morning.  Not because I thought she'd appreciate it, but because I needed a witness.

Yeah, that is total bullshiat right there (source: mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/NU00195 ).

Vegetables make you feel full. They have fiber (which helps make you feel full) and are very low calorie for the volume. That is why they are excellent for weight loss. Water is another nice thing for that since it fills you up.

Broccoli (bought frozen, cooked and boiled) has 8 calories per ounce. That means for a lb, it is a whopping 128 calories. Do you know how much 1 lb of broccoli is? It is quite a bit.

Source: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products / 2359/2

Another great weight-loss food is beans. Very high fiber and low calorie (can of black beans has ~24 g of protein and only 350 calories or so, along with nearly all of your daily fiber requirement).


yeah but, blazing-saddles-campfire.jpg
 
2013-08-20 11:08:27 PM  

YodaBlues: You workout...while playing games?

/Subscription to your newsletter please
//Started running again 2 months ago, getting prepped for my first 5k.
///If I could do that and play games...oh god.


Ya it's crazy.  Turns out that video games were both the cause of, and solution to, all my weight problems.   I do add in pushups, planks, some light weights a few times a week so my upper body gets some kind of workout, but it's mostly just pedaling at increasing resistances.

Two speaker stands to the left and right of the bike hold a Logitech G13 and a G600, feels much like my normal gaming setup on the couch.  Console controllers work well but limit my game options and they feel less comfortable, seems to be better balance with my hands spread out to the sides than close together.

It's not perfect, a treadmill or especially running outside would be far better for overall fitness - but I've tried both of those over the years and I just lose the motivation to maintain any kind of consistent schedule.  Music when jogging or netflix on the treadmill isn't enough distraction for me whereas gaming the time just disappears.  Sweat is also a problem, I need to wear gloves to keep the controllers dry and I gotta figure out how to deal with it running into my eyes constantly (80s style sweatband I suppose).  So ya, looks goofy as hell altogether but I can't argue with the results, and that's what matters.
 
2013-08-20 11:42:17 PM  
Unless her hormones are in that cake, it's not the farking hormons whale tail.
 
2013-08-20 11:50:27 PM  

Cytokine Storm: I discovered that as much as I loathe exercise and have been unable to keep up with any fitness program due to how much it sucked, that combining a recumbent bike with video games is an amazing success for me.

I've been doing this 60 minutes a day, six days a week, with a heart rate 140+ for the duration and not only am I seeing crazy fast results, but it's not annoying or a chore.  The key being the games, they distract my brain from how uncomfortable the exertion is and makes the hour just fly by, and I no longer feel like I'm "wasting" that hour of my evening after I get home late from work.  The fact that I'm doing a pretty high intensity cardio workout (I sweat buckets, there's a pool on the mat when I'm done) means my diet doesn't really need to change much - same food just slightly smaller portions (and one indulging day of the week - giant pizza and tub of ice cream, something like that).

A side effect is I'm also actually making steady progress through my PS3 and Steam backlog, and soon will be using that time to get some MMO grinding done (since a recumbent keeps your arms stationary, it's no more uncomfortable to use a G13+Mouse than at a desk).  A microphone lets me chat with friends when doing team stuff.

Sounds goofy, looks sorta goofy, but damn if it doesn't work for me.  20 pounds in 8 weeks gone, 25 more to go.

/YMMV
//off to play Saints Row IV for an hour
///while biking


How do you keep your heart rate up without constantly having to look at the display and pay attention to the games, or keep your concentration up enough to push yourself to that level while simultaneously not sucking at the game?  Those would be the only two problems I see, but other than that, farking brilliant idea.
 
2013-08-20 11:54:56 PM  
I was going down that path. Had my wakeup call about three years ago. I'd just gotten a job a couple hours closer to home, so I got caught up with various local errands, including a physical (which I hadn't had for a couple years). Weighed in at 230 (up from ~195 the physical two years before), but my BP was about normal, so I shrugged it off. I'd always been skinny and had a fast metabolism, but I was gettin older and putting on a little weight is natural.

A couple months later I got a hellacious cold that put me on my ass for two weeks, went back to the doc, and my BP was through the roof. Went back again after to follow-up, and it was still high. Doc said that if I didn't get the BP under control, he'd put me on meds. Which goddamn terrified me.

I started using some of those two hours of not commuting to hit the treadmill in the basement. Brown-bagged a small, consistent lunch (same thing more or less every day, save for a sandwich at the deli maybe once a week). I stopped drinking sodas, and stopped taking sugar in my coffee, cut out the fast food altogether. Didn't feel like I was making any grand sacrifices - I didn't like how that shiat made me feel, so dropping it was its own reward.

I used the LoseIt app to track my calories. Wasn't super-anal about it, just ballparked the numbers as best I could. At least gave me a general idea of how I was doing on a given day or week.

Went from 230 to 180 in about two years (18 months, really - stopped the working out when we had to get the nursery ready, started it back up after the kid was born). Kept it off for a year or so now, and I feel pretty incredible. Still getting over to the gym once a week or so, tryin to eat right. Not tracking the calories anymore, but keeping it in the back of my mind (e.g., "had a couple beers tonight, maybe I'll skip the ice cream").

/When he suggested I lose weight at my physical, I said "from where?" I'm surprised he didn't say "FROM EVERYWHERE, YOU FOOL!" I cringe when I look back at pics of me from that era.
//Wearing the same pant size I wore in high school.
///Got a bit wall-of-texty on me. Sorry 'bout that.
 
2013-08-20 11:59:07 PM  

Kingly Weevil: You're not hungry, you're thirsty or bored.  Drink water


I've always drank a lot of water. Depending on time of year and activity level, a gallon to two per day, starting in high school all the way to post-college.

In that time frame, I gained and lost a lot of weight. The amount of water intake didn't matter, and I couldn't chug down a hunger pang (it just makes you feel overly-sloshy, but the feeling goes away in 10-20 mins as your body moves the water out of your stomach).

The whole point of TFA and countless others like it is that your body doesn't want you to loose weight. It is going to fight you every step of the way and you're going to be miserable. It's true that at the end of the day it all boils down to just eating less, but that doesn't mean it's simple. The more we understand about the physiology of weight loss the better we're able to help people loose weight.

 I don't understand why so many people feel this is a bad thing.
 
2013-08-21 12:09:49 AM  

machoprogrammer: Yeah, that is total bullshiat right there (source: mayo clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/weight-loss/NU00195 ).

Vegetables make you feel full. They have fiber (which helps make you feel full) and are very low calorie for the volume. That is why they are excellent for weight loss. Water is another nice thing for that since it fills you up.


The whole point of TFA is that some researchers now think that obese people get different chemical signals about fullness than do normal weight people. It's not about filling up your stomach, it's about feeling hungry. It's hard to loose weight when your body is telling you to eat every half an hour, regardless of how much broccoli you eat.

I'm also inclined to believe that obesity is an under-researched problem. Most of our clinical studies on just about any health subject primarily draw from a population of healthy non-smoking undergraduate college students. We're coming to understand that the difference between 'obese' and 'overweight' is much, much more than just more fat around the edges. It can change your entire physiology.
 
2013-08-21 12:25:15 AM  
Hey, fatties and recovering fatties, your body is reacting the way YOU trained it to, get over it and don't ask for sympathy.
 
2013-08-21 12:28:16 AM  

taliesinwi: How do you keep your heart rate up without constantly having to look at the display and pay attention to the games, or keep your concentration up enough to push yourself to that level while simultaneously not sucking at the game?  Those would be the only two problems I see, but other than that, farking brilliant idea.


That was actually a thought when I first started, if I get distracted with the game will my legs slow and never realize it?

So I got a heart monitor and had it set to yell at me if it went too low - turns out my legs have no problem going into autopilot and require little thought to keep pedaling even when it gets tough, the monitor never makes a peep.  I check it periodically during load screens or cutscenes (also when I hydrate) and I'm always 140-150 except for when warming up/cooling down.

As far as not sucking goes - if I'm fumbling all over the place and not able to land quick headshots or what not, it just won't be fun for me.  I did some Warframe tests with friends when I first started (mic for chat) and it turns out the only difference was with my aiming accuracy going down by about 11% to 15% on average (that game tracks match stats).  Movement, reaction time, everything else was the same as if I were on the couch where I normally game.  This is more than acceptable to me considering the benefits - and anything that's not a FPS/TPS even that accuracy loss is gone.

Might as well share some pics I took of the setup not too long ago.   Gaming couch / Exercise Bike / Screen for both.

/20lbs lost and 2 belt notches so far
//gonna play FF:ARR soon and MMO grind while biking
///lose weight while playing an MMO? IMPOSSIBRU!
 
2013-08-21 01:59:56 AM  
P90-X and a better diet. That is all.
 
2013-08-21 03:18:35 AM  

Lsherm: I was 40 when I started.  You have to quit alcohol altogether, or include it as a food group.

If you're 5'11" and 215, you're obese unless you are a "weightlifter."  And everyone considers themselves a weightlifter at 30 years old.  Good luck pulling that off at 40.


I don't think I can quit alcohol altogether, but I have been dialing back on simple carbs in food with the understanding that I will replace them in beer. Overall calories are not a problem, but the residual effects (hormones, carb type) are things I don't have a firm handle on. I have noticed that if I have over 4 beers a day, my metabolism goes haywire for a week, so I try to avoid that now.

You are correct, 215 is obese for our height by BMI -- I calculated incorrectly. I actually do lift weights, so my body fat wasn't off the charts at 215, but it was (and even at 195, still is) in the unhealthy range. Make no mistake, I consider myself overweight and unhealthy even if my friends don't. I was just expressing surprise that that weight makes it harder to lose fat, but with the 10 year age difference, it makes sense.

Again, I commend your progress, and I hope you maintain it. I hope I can reach 183 or lower by the end of this year, and maintain it for the rest of my life.
 
2013-08-21 06:35:11 AM  

Cytokine Storm: taliesinwi: How do you keep your heart rate up without constantly having to look at the display and pay attention to the games, or keep your concentration up enough to push yourself to that level while simultaneously not sucking at the game?  Those would be the only two problems I see, but other than that, farking brilliant idea.

That was actually a thought when I first started, if I get distracted with the game will my legs slow and never realize it?

So I got a heart monitor and had it set to yell at me if it went too low - turns out my legs have no problem going into autopilot and require little thought to keep pedaling even when it gets tough, the monitor never makes a peep.  I check it periodically during load screens or cutscenes (also when I hydrate) and I'm always 140-150 except for when warming up/cooling down.

As far as not sucking goes - if I'm fumbling all over the place and not able to land quick headshots or what not, it just won't be fun for me.  I did some Warframe tests with friends when I first started (mic for chat) and it turns out the only difference was with my aiming accuracy going down by about 11% to 15% on average (that game tracks match stats).  Movement, reaction time, everything else was the same as if I were on the couch where I normally game.  This is more than acceptable to me considering the benefits - and anything that's not a FPS/TPS even that accuracy loss is gone.

Might as well share some pics I took of the setup not too long ago.   Gaming couch / Exercise Bike / Screen for both.

/20lbs lost and 2 belt notches so far
//gonna play FF:ARR soon and MMO grind while biking
///lose weight while playing an MMO? IMPOSSIBRU!


I had thought of putting a computer on top of a treadmill before but this seems easier/cheaper.  Do you use a leet pro gaming half keyboard (thought I might have seen one on the seat) or a regular keyboard?

For extra geeky points you should wire the resistance of the bike to a genny and provide 1/18th the power needed to game.
 
2013-08-21 06:57:13 AM  
yay more excuses!
 
2013-08-21 07:07:17 AM  

Fonaibung: Lsherm: Slaxl: 'Once a person becomes obese, glucagon no longer induces feelings of fullness. Further research is needed to determine why glucagon no longer suppresses appetite effectively in this population...'

Every single one? Even so, it's once a person becomes obese that it stops functioning, right? In which case it's still not a medical reason for their fatness, it's still an excuse to not lose weight.

Also I'd like to know if it works both ways. If they don't feel full, do they feel the same type of hunger we do?

As someone who was on the cusp of Type II diabetes before I started a miserable regimen of losing weight, it's worse than you think.  Not only do you not feel full, you feel hungry more often, and you feel hungrier when you do.  If you exercise you feel like you're starving, so you're inclined to eat more as you try to lose weight.  It's like your body is sabotaging every effort you make to lose weight.  Exercise drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Eating less drops your blood sugar, which makes you feel hungry.  Then when you do eat, you don't feel satisfied.  It's bizarre, and I can sympathize with people who struggle to lose weight.  It's a long, hard slog to get back to the point where your body isn't playing tricks on you.

I'm 5'11".  At my heaviest I was at 215, and my head wouldn't let me go 12 hours without eating unless I was asleep.  Even though I knew I shouldn't be hungry from every rational perspective, it was there, all the goddamn time.  The trick to losing weight wasn't working out - it was resolving to go hungry, all the time, until my weight was back under control.  Now I'm back down to 170, and I'm not hungry all the time.  I can wake up and if I eat breakfast, I won't feel hungry again until dinner.

For me, weight loss was slow and miserable from 215 until about 190.  It took almost a year, I exercised at least an hour 4 times a week (frequently more), and I was hungry and moody all the time.  I would ruin the overa ...

I commend you for your progress, but I'm really surprised to hear how difficult it was. 215 on me (same height as you) looks a little beefy, but it is not distinctly obese where I would assume it crosses over into "hormonal issue" territory. Maybe I'm lucky: it didn't take much work to drop to 195, and I didn't have hunger pangs beyond a day or two. Granted, I adjusted calories by only 20%, and I already work out 5-7 days a week. However, it has been challenging dropping below 195 lbs, mainly because my cheating habits (beer) prevent me from maintaining a caloric deficit. My primary goal is 183 lbs, and my stretch goal is 173 lbs (estimated 12% body fat).

It IS frustrating that I work out as much as I do and only have a 2360-calorie maintenance level, at 30. I shudder to think how much worse it will get as I lose weight, too. You may think otherwise, but a heavy person at a higher weight always has a higher maintenance level than a slimmer person. Maintenance level is primarily dictated by overall mass and is scarcely affected by body composition.


Muscle makes a huge amount of difference. In high school, when all I did was play video games, 230 made me look like a huge lardass. Now I'm lifting, and 230 makes me look a little chubby. Within the next couple of years, I shouldn't even have a gut anymore. I'm 6'2".
 
2013-08-21 07:20:57 AM  

Cytokine Storm: YodaBlues: You workout...while playing games?

/Subscription to your newsletter please
//Started running again 2 months ago, getting prepped for my first 5k.
///If I could do that and play games...oh god.

Ya it's crazy.  Turns out that video games were both the cause of, and solution to, all my weight problems.   I do add in pushups, planks, some light weights a few times a week so my upper body gets some kind of workout, but it's mostly just pedaling at increasing resistances.

Two speaker stands to the left and right of the bike hold a Logitech G13 and a G600, feels much like my normal gaming setup on the couch.  Console controllers work well but limit my game options and they feel less comfortable, seems to be better balance with my hands spread out to the sides than close together.

It's not perfect, a treadmill or especially running outside would be far better for overall fitness - but I've tried both of those over the years and I just lose the motivation to maintain any kind of consistent schedule.  Music when jogging or netflix on the treadmill isn't enough distraction for me whereas gaming the time just disappears.  Sweat is also a problem, I need to wear gloves to keep the controllers dry and I gotta figure out how to deal with it running into my eyes constantly (80s style sweatband I suppose).  So ya, looks goofy as hell altogether but I can't argue with the results, and that's what matters.


who-is-awesome.com

/Totally doing this.
 
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