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(Purdue Exponent)   Mitch Daniels wanted to remove the Howard Zinn textbook because of Zinn's biased views, and replace it with Bill Bennett's textbook   (purdueexponent.org) divider line 69
    More: Ironic, Howard Zinn, Mitch Daniels, textbooks  
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1146 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Aug 2013 at 1:35 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-20 01:37:15 PM
that's pretty much how conservatives handle media in general.
 
2013-08-20 01:37:30 PM
Of course.  There is no such thing as Conservative bias.  There is only Liberal bias, and The Truth™.
 
2013-08-20 01:40:30 PM
conservative education leader

What is that, like an Amish astronaut?
 
2013-08-20 01:41:06 PM
I love compulsive gamblers telling me how to lead a Right and Moral Life.
 
2013-08-20 01:41:21 PM
Bill Bennett's view of American history is better than Howard Zinn's?  You wanna bet?
 
2013-08-20 01:41:57 PM
Bill Bennett's textbook on blackjack or the one on roulette?

Eagerly awaiting "Bill Bennett's Book of Pai-Gow Poker Values."
 
2013-08-20 01:42:07 PM
From the guy who managed President George W. Bush's budget. Think about that. Of course, that's not fair, because that was back when deficits didn't matter.
 
2013-08-20 01:42:10 PM
Yeah, okay, Zinn's a bit liberal, but really only as much as standard textbooks lean conservative.
 
2013-08-20 01:43:18 PM
They really should have gone with Mike Huckabee's history series.
 
2013-08-20 01:43:35 PM
because we need to revise history in order not to learn from it.
 
2013-08-20 01:44:59 PM

ikanreed: Yeah, okay, Zinn's a bit liberal, but really only as much as standard textbooks lean conservative.


This.  Zinn's book is one of few history textbooks that will address aspects and viewpoints of history that 99% of historical accounts ignore.
 
2013-08-20 01:45:15 PM
How about just pass out the Tea Party Coloring Book.
 
2013-08-20 01:45:20 PM
Last history textbook I had in college was all primary sources. I found it to be a cool spin on the traditional format.
 
2013-08-20 01:45:53 PM

theorellior: They really should have gone with Mike Huckabee's history series.


I honestly thought that was going to be a link to The Bible.
 
2013-08-20 01:48:23 PM

EyeballKid: From the guy who managed President George W. Bush's budget. Think about that. Of course, that's not fair, because that was back when deficits didn't matter.


Mitch Daniels thought that the Iraq War would cost $50 - 60 billion. Only off by more than an order of magnitude.
 
2013-08-20 01:50:05 PM

Car_Ramrod: I honestly thought that was going to be a link to The Bible.


While that would be apropos, I believe the one I linked is even more lulz-worthy.
 
2013-08-20 01:51:12 PM

Isitoveryet: How about just pass out the Tea Party Coloring Book.


What am I going to do with just a white crayon?
 
2013-08-20 01:51:13 PM
i1.ytimg.com

Let's see if anyone can tell the difference!


/piping hot
 
2013-08-20 01:51:19 PM

ikanreed: Yeah, okay, Zinn's a bit liberal, but really only as much as standard textbooks lean conservative.


LOL.

Wait, wait, I got one:

Sean Hannity is a bit conservative, but only as much as other fox anchors lean liberal.
 
2013-08-20 01:53:49 PM
How about the comic-book-style history of the US (can't remember the title and Google isn't helping)? I read part of it over a lazy weekend once, and it has a lot of stuff we either glossed over or ignored in my history classes.

// also, standardizing the courses might help
// I don't think I needed 3 classes on "America 1700-1800" and zero on "America 1930-1990" (graduated HS in '99)
 
2013-08-20 01:57:40 PM
We need the Texas Board of Edumacation to make a non-biased ruling on this.
 
2013-08-20 02:01:40 PM
Howard Zinn's book is socialist because it is written from the point of view of "the people" as a collective.  A Real American history novel needs to be written from the point of view of Republican presidents, military leaders, or owners of large corporations.
 
2013-08-20 02:03:39 PM
I highly recommend that he (and everyone else) consider reading this very interesting book:

ecx.images-amazon.com

It talks about various key parts of U.S. history and what actually happened historically, and then compares it to the way each of the leading high school history textbooks treats those events.

Of course, because what actually happened is much, much closer to Zinn's version than the standard high school textbooks' versions, I'm sure he would dismiss it as liberal propaganda.
 
2013-08-20 02:09:14 PM
 Well you can't have people seeing past the thin shiny veneer of capitalism. They might realize we live in a country with a capitalist system that A) demands inflation constantly go up from now until the end of time at any cost, and B) insist that it is impossible and wrong even to pay the people working for you a living wage.
No one want's to wake up and find out their living in a slave state, totally kills the buzz.
 
2013-08-20 02:12:48 PM
But the real question is what would he do with the Chelsea Zinn textbook?
 
2013-08-20 02:14:25 PM

HypnozombieX:  Well you can't have people seeing past the thin shiny veneer of capitalism. They might realize we live in a country with a capitalist system that A) demands inflation constantly go up from now until the end of time at any cost, and B) insist that it is impossible and wrong even to pay the people working for you a living wage.
No one want's to wake up and find out their living in a slave state, totally kills the buzz.


This is what people who buy what Howard Zinn is selling actually believe.
 
2013-08-20 02:16:50 PM
How about getting rid of Zinn's book and not replacing it with Bill Bennett's?
 
2013-08-20 02:22:46 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: HypnozombieX:  Well you can't have people seeing past the thin shiny veneer of capitalism. They might realize we live in a country with a capitalist system that A) demands inflation constantly go up from now until the end of time at any cost, and B) insist that it is impossible and wrong even to pay the people working for you a living wage.
No one want's to wake up and find out their living in a slave state, totally kills the buzz.

This is what people who buy what Howard Zinn is selling actually believe.


are you saying that Capitalism is an across the board benefit to everyone who participates, true equality at its finest?

what did you think of Cisco laying off 4000 employees in San Jose due to the slipping profits (that's not to say no profits) that the share holders were seeing? So, the shareholder (who don't even work for Cisco) decide that rather than be happy about any profit, they would rather layoff employees (who make the company profitable) to increase profits.  That's Capitalism.
 
2013-08-20 02:24:32 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: HypnozombieX:  Well you can't have people seeing past the thin shiny veneer of capitalism. They might realize we live in a country with a capitalist system that A) demands inflation constantly go up from now until the end of time at any cost, and B) insist that it is impossible and wrong even to pay the people working for you a living wage.
No one want's to wake up and find out their living in a slave state, totally kills the buzz.

This is what people who buy what Howard Zinn is selling actually believe.


That's a great point by point rebuttal of his post. Great piece, really. Excellently researched and documented.
 
2013-08-20 02:26:21 PM

olderbudnoweiser: [i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Let's see if anyone can tell the difference!


/piping hot


cdn.ebaumsworld.com
 
2013-08-20 02:38:03 PM
I'm just appalled that those yahoos at Purdue made this asshole their President.  Ye Gads.
 
2013-08-20 02:54:59 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm just appalled that those yahoos at Purdue made this asshole their President.  Ye Gads.


This Purdue graduate is happy to have Daniels as the university President.

Daniels is more affable than Cordova, and much less of an asshole than Jischke.  He's also probably a fantastic fundraiser given his political connections which, for better or worse, its the primary job of most any university president these days.

Daniels was also a pretty good governor, who did some things that weren't popular in some circles for the good of the state (namely the Indiana Toll Road lease to finance "Major Moves" and the budget cuts that kept Indiana in much better fiscal shape than neighbor states).

Democrats hate him because he worked for GWB...which is about as smart as Republicans hating Huntsman because he worked for Obama.
 
2013-08-20 02:55:11 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: This is what people who buy what Howard Zinn is selling actually believe.


Says the guy who carries water for Jamie Dimon in just about every thread he's in.
 
2013-08-20 02:58:51 PM

CoolHandLucas: Daniels was also a pretty good governor, who did some things that weren't popular in some circles for the good of the state (namely the Indiana Toll Road lease to finance "Major Moves" and the budget cuts that kept Indiana in much better fiscal shape than neighbor states).


Quite the economic genius, that Daniels:

Step 1. Have casinos.
Step 2. Have neighboring state not allow casino gambling.
Step 3. Profit.


Did Daniels also take credit for the sun rising?
 
2013-08-20 02:59:57 PM
He declined to answer questions about Tony Bennett's resignation as Florida schools chief following an Associated Press report showing Bennett and his staff changed Indiana's school grading formula to benefit a charter school run by a prominent Republican donor.

Wait until the Tea Party finds out Ol' Big Bill was GHW Bush's Drug Czar and a former Democrat.
 
2013-08-20 03:00:57 PM
I've actually been reading the People's History, off and on, over the last couple of months, having never read it before.  I'm on page 472 of 688 in the hardcover.  It's a little tedious at times (your eyes can glaze over after ten straight pages of "and then there was another strike in Lowell, MA, and three people were shot and killed..."), but I definitely recommend it.  The facts are meticulously and unarguably detailed and it maintains its thesis (namely, that the elites have been able to pit the oppressed against each other and/or hand out just enough to stave off a revolution) without beating you over the head with it or being overly tendentious.
 
2013-08-20 03:02:25 PM

CoolHandLucas: Democrats hate him because he worked for GWB...which is about as smart as Republicans hating Huntsman because he worked for Obama


This democrat hates him because the time that Daniels was directing the Office of Management and Budget was the time that we went from a surplus to a deficit.
 
2013-08-20 03:07:00 PM
Daniels also tried to save money by outsourcing the welfare enrollment facility to IBM. That failed:

In 2006, Daniels continued his effort to reduce state operating costs by signing into law a bill privatizing the enrollment service for the state's welfare programs. Indiana's welfare enrollment facilities were replaced with operated by. In mid-2009, after complaints of poor service, Daniels canceled the contract and returned the enrollment service to the public sector
 
2013-08-20 03:09:26 PM
cameroncrazy1984:
This democrat hates him because the time that Daniels was directing the Office of Management and Budget was the time that we went from a surplus to a deficit.

Does OMB create budgets and pass spending bills?

Also, I'm certain the post-9/11 economic recession had nothing whatsoever to do with going from a surplus to a deficit.
 
2013-08-20 03:10:09 PM

CoolHandLucas: Democrats hate him because he worked for GWB...which is about as smart as Republicans hating Huntsman because he worked for Obama.


Awwww. <pats head>  You just keep believing that, sweetie.
 
2013-08-20 03:20:56 PM

CoolHandLucas: Also, I'm certain the post-9/11 economic recession had nothing whatsoever to do with going from a surplus to a deficit.


Handing out $300 checks to everyone in the country didn't help, either.
 
2013-08-20 03:28:52 PM

EyeballKid: CoolHandLucas: Daniels was also a pretty good governor, who did some things that weren't popular in some circles for the good of the state (namely the Indiana Toll Road lease to finance "Major Moves" and the budget cuts that kept Indiana in much better fiscal shape than neighbor states).

Quite the economic genius, that Daniels:

Step 1. Have casinos.
Step 2. Have neighboring state not allow casino gambling.
Step 3. Profit.


Did Daniels also take credit for the sun rising?


considering indiana now plays along with daylight savings time because of him, yah. kinda, he did.
 
2013-08-20 03:52:09 PM

CoolHandLucas: cameroncrazy1984:
This democrat hates him because the time that Daniels was directing the Office of Management and Budget was the time that we went from a surplus to a deficit.

Does OMB create budgets and pass spending bills?

Also, I'm certain the post-9/11 economic recession had nothing whatsoever to do with going from a surplus to a deficit.


No it was mainly the tax cuts and the emergency spending measures for the war in Afghanistan.
 
2013-08-20 04:01:48 PM
Weird that conservatives wouldn't want people to learn about history from the perspective of women, blacks or Native Americans. Truly strange.
 
2013-08-20 04:25:22 PM

Super Chronic: I've actually been reading the People's History, off and on, over the last couple of months, having never read it before.  I'm on page 472 of 688 in the hardcover.  It's a little tedious at times (your eyes can glaze over after ten straight pages of "and then there was another strike in Lowell, MA, and three people were shot and killed..."), but I definitely recommend it.  The facts are meticulously and unarguably detailed and it maintains its thesis (namely, that the elites have been able to pit the oppressed against each other and/or hand out just enough to stave off a revolution) without beating you over the head with it or being overly tendentious.


What I've read (and I haven't read it all) makes me think that I'd use certain chapters for classes, to provide an alternate perspective, but I wouldn't use it as a textbook because he will occasionally let his agenda get in the way of his facts.  There's one bit that always comes to mind in his chapter on the American Revolution in which he selectively quotes Pauline Maier (whose entire book was about how the Revolution began as a resistance among all classes) as he's trying to argue that it was really wealthy Americans running everything and more or less tricking the underclass into the Revolution.  That kind of soured me on his style.

That said, based on the reviews, Bennett's book doesn't sound like it's appropriate for a classroom textbook either.
 
2013-08-20 04:43:05 PM
Zinn wrote his history with a specific political view in mind, and the entire book is an example of that bias. I think it would be a good tool to teach about historical bias by including a similarly biased work by a conservative.

To be truly impartial you have to separate your personal politics from the facts.
 
2013-08-20 05:00:01 PM

Car_Ramrod: conservative education leader

What is that, like an Amish astronaut?


No one ever calls Bennett by the title under which he first became well-known, Reagan's Drug Tzar.
 
2013-08-20 05:16:17 PM

Isitoveryet: Debeo Summa Credo: HypnozombieX:  Well you can't have people seeing past the thin shiny veneer of capitalism. They might realize we live in a country with a capitalist system that A) demands inflation constantly go up from now until the end of time at any cost, and B) insist that it is impossible and wrong even to pay the people working for you a living wage.
No one want's to wake up and find out their living in a slave state, totally kills the buzz.

This is what people who buy what Howard Zinn is selling actually believe.

are you saying that Capitalism is an across the board benefit to everyone who participates, true equality at its finest?

what did you think of Cisco laying off 4000 employees in San Jose due to the slipping profits (that's not to say no profits) that the share holders were seeing? So, the shareholder (who don't even work for Cisco) decide that rather than be happy about any profit, they would rather layoff employees (who make the company profitable) to increase profits.  That's Capitalism.


Nobody owes you a living. If the cost of those 4,000 individuals were not incremental to Cisco's bottom line, then why would you expect Cisco to continue to employ them? Do you believe that once hired, workers are entitled to lifetime employmet regardless of whether they're efforts are worth the wages paid?Do you just give money away to the provider when you no longer need a service? When you don't, are you taking advantage of the people you could have given the money to?

Capitalism is the most efficient economic system to maximize productivity, lower costs to consumers, and provide opportunity for individuals to gain and thrive.

The opposite of capitalism, where individuals are free to innovate and invest and work, and reap the fair value from those innovations and investments and labor, is communism. We now have nearly a century of empirical evidence that communism is an absolute failure wherever it's been tried and plainly inferior to capitalism.

Im not saying a social safety net like the one we have isn't desirable or appropriate, and reasonable people can argue over the extent and generosity of that social safety net, but anybody who tells you that capitalism isn't far superior to any alternative is absolutely delusional.
 
2013-08-20 05:17:50 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Capitalism is the most efficient economic system to maximize productivity, lower costs to consumers


Sure, if it's well-regulated. This one ain't.
 
2013-08-20 05:39:52 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: ikanreed: Yeah, okay, Zinn's a bit liberal, but really only as much as standard textbooks lean conservative.

LOL.

Wait, wait, I got one:

Sean Hannity is a bit conservative, but only as much as other fox anchors lean liberal.


Your ridiculous viewpoint has been noted and ignored, as usual.

/Facts, as always, support the liberals.
 
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