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(Salon)   Step 1: Take over and defund public schools. Step 2: Point to their shiatty performance as a reason to further defund them. Step 3: Rake in political donations from charter school executives   (salon.com) divider line 199
    More: Sick, lack of resources, charter schools, sick comedy, budget year, shale gas  
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2991 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Aug 2013 at 2:07 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



199 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-20 12:53:20 PM
The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?
 
2013-08-20 01:04:46 PM
Let's just remember, class.

The first rule in exploiting people is making sure they aren't educated enough to read the contract or know their rights.
 
2013-08-20 01:12:37 PM
Corbett makes Fast Eddie look like a model governor.
 
2013-08-20 01:18:00 PM
Haven't clicked, but i assume we're talking abouy Corbett? Because this sounds like his sort of dick move.
 
2013-08-20 01:20:18 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


They're probably cutting out lunch period so they can shut off the lights an hour earlier.
 
2013-08-20 01:22:41 PM
Pennsylvania's right-wing governor drains public schools of basic funds -- and the sickening details will shock youShock?  No. At least not to anyone up on current events.

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


I'd think someone such as a lunch monitor and other lunch related duties as assigned.
 
2013-08-20 01:34:19 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Corbett makes Fast Eddie look like a model governor.


Fast Eddie was a scumbag but at least he kept things working. Corbett is out to make money for himself and his buddies and the rest of the state can go pound sand.
 
2013-08-20 01:48:22 PM
This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.
 
2013-08-20 01:54:54 PM
it has gotten to the point where the republican party is now a caricature of evil, like the legion of doom or smersh. they are a joke. a sick, cruel, vicious joke that represents the single greatest threat this country has ever faced in its 200+ year history.
 
2013-08-20 02:03:06 PM

Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.


I'll never vote for the , again.
 
2013-08-20 02:08:27 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


New term for a lunch-time martini.
 
2013-08-20 02:08:38 PM
I thought this was about North Carolina.  And by North Carolina I mean every state in the union.
 
2013-08-20 02:10:49 PM
Worked for the Postal Service.
 
2013-08-20 02:13:42 PM

DarwiOdrade: scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?

New term for a lunch-time martini.


Sky Rockets in Flight?
 
2013-08-20 02:14:25 PM
"The cornerstone of democracy rests on the foundation of an educated electorate," said no Republican ever.
 
2013-08-20 02:15:01 PM
Hey, that's just the Superman they've all been waiting for.
 
2013-08-20 02:15:27 PM
An educated populace is a dangerous populace.

So let's defund PBS, NPR, NEA, and....oops I forgot.
 
2013-08-20 02:15:29 PM
If conservatives had their way, education would be a privilege.  Just scary.
 
2013-08-20 02:16:10 PM
My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.
 
2013-08-20 02:17:15 PM
Not to worry, all those tax dollars PA's getting from fracking will be able pay for this....what, Corbett gave millions in tax breaks to those guys too????  WHAT THE FARK????

At least he didn't let a child molester go unpunished when he was Attorney General....OH WAIT HE DID THAT TOO!  Is this guy going for worst politician in Pennsylvania history?  I know the bar is high, but holy shiat!
 
2013-08-20 02:17:40 PM
Electing republicans to positions in government is like hiring the unibomber to head up your IT department.
 
2013-08-20 02:19:04 PM

DarwiOdrade: "The cornerstone of democracy rests on the foundation of an educated electorate," said no Republican ever.


Not coincidentally, that has a lot of words with more than two syllables
 
2013-08-20 02:19:51 PM
I'm gonna have to come to the conclusion that, yes, some people are just pure, farking evil.
 
2013-08-20 02:19:58 PM

Headso: Electing republicans to positions in government is like hiring the unibomber to head up your IT department.


They're not "repulicans" anymore. They're "independents" and "lolbertarians".
 
2013-08-20 02:20:48 PM

Weaver95: Marcus Aurelius: Corbett makes Fast Eddie look like a model governor.

Fast Eddie was a scumbag but at least he kept things working. Corbett is out to make money for himself and his buddies and the rest of the state can go pound sand.


Hey, hey, hey...  the way you say it makes it sound bad.

We prefer to call it "reducing dependence on government programs, and implementing free market solutions".
 
2013-08-20 02:20:54 PM

thenewmissus: If conservatives had their way, education would be a privilege.  Just scary.


Actually, it education would still be *compulsory*, but the kids would have have to enter into an indentured servitude agreement with a corporation that took effect when they graduated. Oh, and they'd have arranged marriages, too.

It's not about having stupid people, it's about having slaves. Conservatives really REALLY want feudalism to make a comeback.
 
2013-08-20 02:23:07 PM
What do you guys want from the same state that did the kids for cash prison thing?  I mean c'mon.
 
2013-08-20 02:27:05 PM

Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.


I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.
 
2013-08-20 02:27:33 PM
I can't speak for PA, but in MD the charter schools have little to no regulation.  The one I am most familiar with simply drops kids off at the nearby library for 3 hours every day for "individual study".
 
2013-08-20 02:29:34 PM
Step 1: Take over and defund $government_agency.
Step 2: Point to their shiatty performance as a reason to further defund them.
Step 3: Rake in political donations.

This is Republicanism 101, since 1980.

// when the "Moral Majority" took over, and greed became the only American value
 
2013-08-20 02:30:33 PM
That is the national model for charter schools. They also inflate their grades to look better than public schools, and keep getting caught doing it. All in the name of a cash grab.
 
2013-08-20 02:32:19 PM
NC is going down this road with a quickness. Brilliant plan, sirs.
 
2013-08-20 02:32:47 PM
www.republicreport.org
"Cheating, dumbasses! You forgot about cheating on the tests!"
 
2013-08-20 02:33:06 PM

coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-20 02:33:34 PM
I see the Republican plan of keeping 'em stupid, fat, sick and poor is moving along swimmingly in PA.
 
2013-08-20 02:34:43 PM
The Hon. Budd Dwyer has a retirement program that the people of PA would really like Corbett to examine closely.
 
2013-08-20 02:35:17 PM

Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.


Do you want to have gay muslim man sex while your wife has socialist abortions by a chinese communist 'doctor'?  If not, you had better keep voting Republican!
 
2013-08-20 02:36:17 PM
Corbett is in big trouble. Some in the state GOP have even suggested he declare that we won't seek re-election to make way for a different GOP candidate.

/he's a complete douchebag
 
2013-08-20 02:37:24 PM
i realize that PA is philadelphia and pittsburgh with alabama in-between, but what's the chance that this asshole gets reelected?
 
2013-08-20 02:38:37 PM
Philly public schools were a mess long before Corbett was elected.

I know about half a dozen teachers who GTFO of there as soon as they could find a job anywhere else.

I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.
 
2013-08-20 02:39:37 PM
You know what couldn't possibly go wrong?

Turning education into healthcare. Lord knows there's no problem with healthcare in this country.
 
2013-08-20 02:39:41 PM

theknuckler_33: Corbett is in big trouble. Some in the state GOP have even suggested he declare that we won't seek re-election to make way for a different GOP candidate.

/he's a complete douchebag


Scott in FL is the same way.  Even the GOP hates him.  Inside and outside the state.
 
2013-08-20 02:40:45 PM

BMFPitt: I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.


You'll likely be waiting a while, nobody ever says this.

This is what you want people to say.
 
2013-08-20 02:40:58 PM

Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.


Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.
 
2013-08-20 02:42:08 PM

FlashHarry: i realize that PA is philadelphia and pittsburgh with alabama in-between, but what's the chance that this asshole gets reelected?


He's become more & more disliked as his term progresses. He's pissed off a lot of people in his own party. I could see him get primaried or lose in the general (if the Democrats can field a good candidate).
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 02:42:56 PM

Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.


You put all the voters that do this about Democrats and all the voters that do this about the GOP into one room, and I will show you a room that contains 98% of this countries political problems.

The GOP, up to its eyes in idiots right now, just happen to be the more visible of the two right now.
 
2013-08-20 02:44:14 PM
I'm still waiting for the AG to start going after him for being a pedo protector. Goddamn I loathe Corbett. Such a farking stain on my state.
 
2013-08-20 02:44:39 PM

Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.


But, but, but:  gheys!  And gunz!
 
2013-08-20 02:46:01 PM
speaking to a NY state public school teacher this past weekend, Subby is spot on. those in charge in NY State awarded a $35 million contract to a UK company supplying an all-inclusive mandatory teaching system designed for exactly what Subby wrote: student failure, making teachers appear incompetent, union busting and eventual privatization. farking scary. parents in the low rent high crime high drug use areas could care less, they hated school and they hate teachers. parents in up scale bordering school districts don't care either, they gladly pay tuition to charter schools that also receive big grants and donations from corporations that enjoy tax write-offs or send their children to private schools and academies.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 02:49:03 PM

KrispyKritter: speaking to a NY state public school teacher this past weekend, Subby is spot on. those in charge in NY State awarded a $35 million contract to a UK company supplying an all-inclusive mandatory teaching system designed for exactly what Subby wrote: student failure, making teachers appear incompetent, union busting and eventual privatization. farking scary. parents in the low rent high crime high drug use areas could care less, they hated school and they hate teachers. parents in up scale bordering school districts don't care either, they gladly pay tuition to charter schools that also receive big grants and donations from corporations that enjoy tax write-offs or send their children to private schools and academies.


Corporate sponsored school.. yeah... THAT sounds like a good idea.

//read "Jennifer Government"
 
2013-08-20 02:52:58 PM
 
2013-08-20 02:53:22 PM

d23: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

You put all the voters that do this about Democrats and all the voters that do this about the GOP into one room, and I will show you a room that contains 98% of this countries political problems.

The GOP, up to its eyes in idiots right now, just happen to be the more visible of the two right now.


That mindset is a symptom not a cause, imo.


And yes, when it comes to craziness the GOP definitely is more on the jump on the table and proclaim themselves Napoleon end of the spectrum, opposite a relatively benign continuous mumble and thousand yard stare.
 
2013-08-20 02:55:15 PM

coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.


While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".
 
2013-08-20 02:55:40 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: FlashHarry: i realize that PA is philadelphia and pittsburgh with alabama in-between, but what's the chance that this asshole gets reelected?

He's become more & more disliked as his term progresses. He's pissed off a lot of people in his own party. I could see him get primaried or lose in the general (if the Democrats can field a good candidate).


It was interesting for me to find a fairly recent poll showing Corbett -12% against Alyson Swartz (probably the front runner for the Dem nomination) and 65% saying he does not deserve a 2nd term.

With these results, the firm conducting the poll concluded:

"With Governor Corbett's weak job approval, re-elect and ballot support numbers, the current Philadelphia school crisis presents an opportunity for the Governor to wedge the electorate on an issue that is favorable to him," the poll concludes. "Staging this battle presents Corbett with an opportunity to coalesce his base, focus on a key emerging issue in the state, and campaign against an 'enemy' that's going to aggressively oppose him in '14 in any case."

Incredible.

Link.
 
2013-08-20 02:56:50 PM
What's the story, here?  They've admitted that this was their plan all along!  No one on the GOP side is disputing that this is what they're trying to do, they're not even trying to hide the fact that they're making up the numbers!
 
2013-08-20 02:58:08 PM

Psylence: The Hon. Budd Dwyer has a retirement program that the people of PA would really like Corbett to examine closely.


Hey, man.
 
2013-08-20 02:58:51 PM
Step 1: Create Medicare "Advantage" with no price controls
Step 2: Watch Medicare costs spiral out of control
Step 3: Complain about Medicare costs being out of control

It's a tried and true method. Why change it if it ain't broke?
 
2013-08-20 02:59:02 PM

Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.


Most don't. Oh there are a few fanatics he and there but the dnc lacks the insane focus of the religious right.
 
2013-08-20 02:59:27 PM

Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.


Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 03:00:22 PM
In Indiana, though, we won't ever farking learn the lesson.  We've still got corporate idiots like Mike Pence in charge.
 
2013-08-20 03:02:00 PM
This strategy has also been applied to the USPS.
 
2013-08-20 03:02:33 PM

HotWingConspiracy: BMFPitt: I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.

You'll likely be waiting a while, nobody ever says this.

This is what you want people to say.


This. So much of it.
 
2013-08-20 03:03:06 PM
When do we recognize these corporate Loyalists as the farking Tories they are and start punching musket balls through faces again?
 
2013-08-20 03:03:50 PM

Diogenes: Worked for the Postal Service.


????

Actually it didn't, that is the problem with the Postal Service, as far as Republitards are concerned. There is enough income to keep the service running and it won't crash and burn anytime soon. Last year, and it looks like they will again this year, the service told congress to go pound sand and refused to pay that extra retirement funding crap that was forced on them when they were running a surplus.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 03:04:34 PM

Apik0r0s: When do we recognize these corporate Loyalists as the farking Tories they are and start punching musket balls through faces again?


When the masses of idiots in this country finally realize there is no correlation between sucking corporate ween and jobs?

//this has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt to any person with any decent level of IQ for 15 years now.
 
2013-08-20 03:09:56 PM

DarwiOdrade: "The cornerstone of democracy rests on the foundation of an educated electorate," said no Republican ever.


Oh, I dunno. I could imagine it from a Republican who was born before 1900, and at a stretch, from a Republican that served in WWII. They weren't always the bastion of derp they've been in our lifetime.
 
2013-08-20 03:10:04 PM

Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.


I don't know why people categorize into the 2 political parties. It is and has always been a struggle between the wealthy aristocracy and everyone else. Allies come and go. Ideologies are borrowed and cast off as they are needed (or not). This didn't begin with Obama or Bush Jr or even the founding of the nation. Why is Haiti despised for what it did- what the US appears to stand for? They threw off the power elite for freedom. BIIIIIG mistake, apparently. Look at Iran. Democracy? F* that. We want their sh*t. Topple their democratically elected ass.
 
2013-08-20 03:11:16 PM

Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.


Aren't you adorably misinformed. The senate banking committee vote was along strict party lines, as was the eventual full senate vote, except for one D voting along with the Rs. Even in the House, the Rs voted over 90% to repeal G-S, while the Ds only had 2/3 support.
 
2013-08-20 03:12:13 PM

coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.


I live in NEPA and if you moved out of this state at any point after 1920, I wouldn't have laughed, I'd have been on my knees begging to go with you.
 
2013-08-20 03:13:56 PM

Weaver95: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Most don't. Oh there are a few fanatics he and there but the dnc lacks the insane focus of the religious right.


Pardon the incredulity weavs, but I can't actually recall an instance where I was critical of Democrats and wasn't subsequently informed how much worse Republicans are, unless times where I received no reply at all count.
 
2013-08-20 03:15:23 PM
Defunding them to the tune of $14,000 per pupil.  How anyone expects to educate children on such a pittance is beyond me.
 
2013-08-20 03:16:44 PM
1) Ban birth control. Ban abortion. Abstinence-only edumakashun.  Defund Planned Parenthood.
2) Wonder why so many out of wedlock births.
3) Abolish food stamps. That'll larn them Welfare Queens. (The Welfare Queens with the babies, of course, not the ones with the zillion-dollar contracts with the Small Government®.)
4) Ship all the well-paying jobs overseas.
5) Gut the public schools. You don't need no edumakashun to work a McJob, and teachers are Union Thugs (except when the NRA wants to arm them).
6) Hike taxes on people who work for a living. Cut them on the plutocrats. Abolish the minimum wage. David Koch's Mercedes is six months old and he wants a new one.
7) Wonder why so many people break the law instead of starving quietly, or getting a McJob for take-home pay that won't take them home.
8) zOMG CRIME WAVE!
9) Zillion-dollar Small Government® contracts for private prisons and purveyors of riot gear.
10) No ??? here, baby.
11) Profit!
/"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." -- P. J. O'Rourke, Parliament of Whores
 
2013-08-20 03:18:26 PM

thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".


I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

And Wilmington, Delaware is not much better.
 
2013-08-20 03:18:48 PM

Nadie_AZ: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I'll never vote for the , again.


Shoot, I won't even vote for the . anymore. Not since I found this photo of them plotting together

;
 
2013-08-20 03:28:04 PM
Oh, come on.  TFA is beyond ridicule.  In 2001 when the commonwealth took over the district, per-pupil spending was at about $8,300, and by 2010 it was up to $13,300 (inflation adjusted) - a 52% increase.   For eight of the 12 years the district's been under commonwealth control, it was under Ed Rendell, hardly a GOP tool.  And how did they fare?  They kept going down the shiatter.  Which is remarkable, because before 2001 it wouldn't have occurred to anyone that it could get much worse.

Of course, you didn't hear a hue and cry from teachers as things eroded; when, year after year, the children went uneducated, too often propelled into a near-hopeless life of dependency.  No, you don't hear about the woes of Philadelphia until things happen that matter.  I.e., layoffs.

The problem is not insufficient state support.  Period, full stop.

But here we go again, with the usual suspects demanding that more of the same policies that caused the problem with solve the problem.  Justified, of course, by the fruits of their malfeasance:  "We have so much poverty, we need more resources!"  And why should we think you'll succeed now, with today's money, when you failed so miserably with all the other billions of dollars we spent on you?  Bad news:  Some of us notice who was "educating" the people whom you now blame for your present difficulties.

Give the kids of Philadelphia a break.  Stop pretending that there is ANY benefit to the outsourced-to-a-private-organization-with-a-monopoly, so-called "public" education system for the people of Philadelphia.  Is there no result for the children that is so catastrophic that people might be willing to tell the system to fark off?  How many children must be sacrificed to appease the gods of "public" education?  Ferchissakes, people, think what we're doing.
 
2013-08-20 03:29:13 PM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: 1) Ban birth control. Ban abortion. Abstinence-only edumakashun.  Defund Planned Parenthood. 2) Wonder why so many out of wedlock births. 3) Abolish food stamps. That'll larn them Welfare Queens. (The Welfare Queens with the babies, of course, not the ones with the zillion-dollar contracts with the Small Government®.) 4) Ship all the well-paying jobs overseas. 5) Gut the public schools. You don't need no edumakashun to work a McJob, and teachers are Union Thugs (except when the NRA wants to arm them). 6) Hike taxes on people who work for a living. Cut them on the plutocrats. Abolish the minimum wage. David Koch's Mercedes is six months old and he wants a new one. 7) Wonder why so many people break the law instead of starving quietly, or getting a McJob for take-home pay that won't take them home. 8) zOMG CRIME WAVE! 9) Zillion-dollar Small Government® contracts for private prisons and purveyors of riot gear. 10) No ??? here, baby. 11) Profit! /"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." -- P. J. O'Rourke, Parliament of Whores

I think #8 or 9 becomes the overthrow of the government as so many tea baggers and conspiracy nutters dream about. Except it won't be anything short of massively ugly and there will. be. no. rescue. Or going back.

 
2013-08-20 03:30:44 PM
Vouchers are not, "unproven."  They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.
 
2013-08-20 03:30:59 PM

Cataholic: Defunding them to the tune of $14,000 per pupil.  How anyone expects to educate children on such a pittance is beyond me.


How much of that 14 grand goes to students, teachers and classrooms, and how much goes to administrators, security staff, and other ancillary stuff?

// if the trend has held in PA, they've had a glut of admins in the last 15ish years, and relatively few teachers added
// and growing class sizes
 
2013-08-20 03:37:41 PM

Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.


Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.
 
2013-08-20 03:39:53 PM
when the President asks "Is our kids learning?" you know we're in trouble.
 
2013-08-20 03:40:03 PM

Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.


And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.
 
2013-08-20 03:41:03 PM

TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.


So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 03:41:44 PM

Dr Dreidel: How much of that 14 grand goes to students, teachers and classrooms, and how much goes to administrators, security staff, and other ancillary stuff?


Given what I know about how administrators have farked up every system in this country, I estimate that about $2.15 is actually spent on classroom materials.

//we're screwed
///the only people society values all are some form of "administrator" or play with a ball of some sort.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-20 03:42:25 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


0
 
2013-08-20 03:42:27 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


contempt, like respect, is earned.
 
2013-08-20 03:42:43 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


Average American voter does not equal fellow man, nice try.
 
2013-08-20 03:43:10 PM
Ambitwistor:I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

I've been there and can attest to this.  northeastern Pennsylvania is almost as bad as southwestern Pennsylvania.  At least you don't have Stiller fans 'n 'nat.
 
2013-08-20 03:43:53 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


Women, Mexicans, Muslims, Gays. All that contempt from liberals...
 
2013-08-20 03:44:37 PM

Garet Garrett: TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.

So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?


Or, you know, facts. Attack the messenger!
 
2013-08-20 03:46:15 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


And never underestimate the conservative belief that he should be free from the consequences of his rhetoric.
 
2013-08-20 03:52:38 PM
This is how outsourcing always works. Taxpayers actually save nothing.
 
2013-08-20 03:54:52 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


heystupid.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-20 03:55:17 PM

Isitoveryet: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

contempt, like respect, is earned.


I will continue to treat contemptible people with contempt.
 
2013-08-20 03:55:59 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


LOL or the ability of some people to project, amirite?
 
2013-08-20 03:58:17 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


It's what you make when life hands you noons.
 
2013-08-20 03:59:46 PM

TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven."  They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.


In every single solitary state they've been tried in. Heck look at Louisiana's results...They thought religious schools were great....until the Islamic schools wanted in on the 'religious instruction' program.
 
2013-08-20 04:00:11 PM
"Particularly noxious lawmakers are fond of spouting the ridiculous notion that money can't help struggling schools, as if more and better-trained staff, better equipment and diverse programming wouldn't make a difference in kids' educations and their lives."

How do we determine an appropriate level of funding for schools when no amount is going to make parents suddenly give a shiat about their kids' education?
 
2013-08-20 04:02:00 PM
Jindal is doing the same thing in Louisiana. We're tossing money to "educators' with nothing but a basketball court and 10 DVD players, calling them voucher schools and bingo bongo, he's a hero.  In the first year we have a school taking $1.3 million and ignoring the reporting required. Those that reported did report combined records of 148-23 and several district championships. La is already last and we're working to go backward.
 
2013-08-20 04:03:18 PM

HotWingConspiracy: BMFPitt: I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.

You'll likely be waiting a while, nobody ever says this.

This is what you want people to say.


So help me God THIS!

Every teacher I know(and I know dozens) is happy with their income.  What they want is textbooks printed this decade(but will settle for century), more Educational Assistants for special needs students, up to date computers and other teaching peripherals, expanded technical programs(shop class, etc) and schools that are structurally sound with enough classrooms so kids aren't jammed in like sardines.  The school I currently work in saw a massive overhaul in staffing and just about everything I just listed in the past five years and it is currently testing nearly 15% above the average for the school board in everything from language arts to math.  Getting rid of bad teachers is one step, but there are a lot more.
 
2013-08-20 04:06:53 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?

[heystupid.files.wordpress.com image 480x320]


Is that chick on the left side the same as the one from Traffic? Erika Christensen?
 
2013-08-20 04:13:37 PM
Hey, with crappy schools there will be more juvenile offenders, which means more profits!

http://www.copblock.org/33684/pennsylvania-judge-sentenced-to-28-yea rs -in-prison-for-selling-teens-to-prisons/
 
2013-08-20 04:14:43 PM
If things continue down the path of pandering to the private sector the eventual outcome will be corporations holding long-term focus groups, calling it school and charging the kids parents for it.
 
2013-08-20 04:19:21 PM

Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.


 You know, if I was held up by a guy who took my wallet, I would call that guy a bad guy.  If I was held up by a guy who took my wallet and anally raped me for two days, I would not say that both guys are equally bad.  You're not CNN, just because there are two sides to a coin doesn't mean both sides have merit.  The GOP jumped the shark a long time ago, and very few of those guys give a shiat about the country, about the poor, about the needy, and about honor if it means they can score some goddamn Pyrrhic victory.
 
2013-08-20 04:21:35 PM

Grandiloquent Grapefruit: If things continue down the path of pandering to the private sector the eventual outcome will be corporations holding long-term focus groups, calling it school and charging the kids parents for it.


Kleptocracy; all the charming power and abuse of feudalism with none of the ruler's responsibility.
 
2013-08-20 04:21:55 PM

Grandiloquent Grapefruit: If things continue down the path of pandering to the private sector the eventual outcome will be corporations holding long-term focus groups, calling it school and charging the kids parents for it.


"Okay class, here we have an artist's depiction of what Thomas Jefferson would have looked like drinking a delicious Coke. And here he is enjoying refreshing Pepsi. Now children, you will each write a short 500 word essay on which feels more 'historical' and why."
 
2013-08-20 04:24:07 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


http://www.omsd.k12.ca.us/departments/HumanResources/classified/Clas si fied%20Docs/Noon%20Aide%20Handbook2012-13.pdf
A 2 hour a day very part time job watching kids in the lunchroom and playground recess.
 
2013-08-20 04:26:32 PM

mediablitz: Garet Garrett: TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.

So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?

Or, you know, facts. Attack the messenger!


For the record; I learned about New Zealand's experiment in School Vouchers in a private university.  But hey, surely those kiwis or whatever the fark they call themselves just didn't do it right.  Same as those Ruskies and communism.  We just need to try harder.
 
2013-08-20 04:29:17 PM
just because there are two sides to a coin doesn't mean both sides have merit.

It doesn't mean that either side has merit either. I don't really care how many nickels you can squeeze between their Hitler and your Mussolini. I ain't joining the club.
 
2013-08-20 04:29:30 PM
Oh look, most of the funding came from minority and impoverished schools?  Oops, totally an accident.
 
2013-08-20 04:38:05 PM

Ambitwistor: thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".

I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

And Wilmington, Delaware is not much better.


IMO, there's not a more depressing drive than from Allentown to Scranton.

/Grew up in Allentown
//Moved to Baltimore
///Considers it an improvement
 
2013-08-20 04:39:03 PM
We are doing this in Arkansas with the blessing of the Stephens and Walmart heirs. It has been proven to be a huge waste of money but since it's taxpayer money the heirs don't mind. They got the people of Arkansas behind it by lying and saying they are putting Jesus back in the schools. I can only hope the people will wise up but that might be a false hope.
 
2013-08-20 04:40:42 PM

Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.


It's like a mental illness.

My grandfather praises Romneycare as a model for the nation while arguing that Obamacare will destroy the freedoms he personally fought for in WW2.

I tried to highlight how Romneycare was used as a model for Obamacare and that much of Romneycare is in Obamacare but he just said I had been brainwashed.

It was an odd conversation.
 
2013-08-20 04:48:38 PM

TheBigJerk: mediablitz: Garet Garrett: TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.

So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?

Or, you know, facts. Attack the messenger!

For the record; I learned about New Zealand's experiment in School Vouchers in a private university.  But hey, surely those kiwis or whatever the fark they call themselves just didn't do it right.  Same as those Ruskies and communism.  We just need to try harder.


Chile failed with vouchers too. Clearly because they aren't real Americans.

And Wisconsin had them for 22 years with ZERO results.

But public schools are liberal hell holes. That's good enough!
 
2013-08-20 04:49:19 PM
I've never understood how people can, on the one hand, champion the private sector and market forces as the solution to our educational problems, and on the other hand insist that it won't help a school system to spend more money to pay for things like computers, books, more teachers, and higher salaries to attract better teachers.

If money doesn't actually make a difference, then how do those market forces work?  And why do people seek more of it?  Do people just seek to maximize their earnings because it's the hip thing to do?
 
2013-08-20 04:50:57 PM

thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".


90% of the land is in between Philly and Pittsburgh, and these imbeciles elected Corbett.  Delaware at least has some f*cking beaches and has never elected someone remotely as retarded as Santorum or Corbett.  I can't argue that Delaware is paradise, but the average place in PA is a f*cking nightmare (Chester and a few other counties excluded).
 
2013-08-20 04:53:17 PM
The average cost of an inmate in PA is about 35k a year.
 
2013-08-20 04:54:29 PM

Professor Duck: Ambitwistor: thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".

I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

And Wilmington, Delaware is not much better.

IMO, there's not a more depressing drive than from Allentown to Scranton.

/Grew up in Allentown
//Moved to Baltimore
///Considers it an improvement


Let me put this in perspective.  I have lived in PA, DE and MD.  My girlfriend hails from NEPA.  I hail from SEPA.  I now live in DE, she now lives in MD.  Most of SEPA is ok, but really, with the exception of a few places outside of Pittsburgh and SEPA, the whole place blows.  Scranton and WB are shiathole, shuttered coal towns that still vote GOP for some f*cking reason.  Neither of us love where we're at, but don't think of PA as better in any respect.  And that drive from Allentown to Scranton is very very very f*cking sad.
 
2013-08-20 04:58:18 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals FARK Independents have for their fellow man.


FTFY.
 
2013-08-20 05:05:41 PM

Professor Duck: /Grew up in Allentown
//Moved to Baltimore
///Considers it an improvement


So you're saying the restlessness was handed down
And it's getting very hard to staaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-a-aaa-a-a-aaa-a-a-a-aaay
aaaaaaah aaahhhhh ooooooooh ooooooh o-hhhhhhh.
 
2013-08-20 05:12:43 PM

Xcott: I've never understood how people can, on the one hand, champion the private sector and market forces as the solution to our educational problems, and on the other hand insist that it won't help a school system to spend more money to pay for things like computers, books, more teachers, and higher salaries to attract better teachers.

If money doesn't actually make a difference, then how do those market forces work?  And why do people seek more of it?  Do people just seek to maximize their earnings because it's the hip thing to do?


I have a notion that the Conservatives want to burn everything to the ground just to be in charge of the ashes.
 
2013-08-20 05:14:17 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


How come you pretend to be a lawyer on the internet?
 
2013-08-20 05:15:54 PM

mediablitz: Garet Garrett: TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.

So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?

Or, you know, facts. Attack the messenger!


I was referring to his command of English.  Or, more particularly, his lack thereof.
 
2013-08-20 05:16:14 PM
Ever notice how the GOP is always promoting "privatizing" things where it does not make any farking sense to do so?

Public school system underperforming?  I know how to fix it!  Lets put a for-profit corporation in charge of it instead.  Because, you see, having our schools under the control of a company whose primary (and only) motivation is to turn a profit will result in the best education for our children, somehow.

/they argue the same crap regarding healthcare
//using the "power of the free market" doesn't make any sense in certain public sectors, like health care, education, and prisons.
 
2013-08-20 05:17:38 PM
How are special needs kids treated in "privatized" schools? In the public school system, there are physical therapists on staff because schools are required to provide both fine motor skills physical therapy (holding a pencil) and gross motor skills physical therapy (walking) if the child has those needs. This is a federal (unpaid for) mandate for public schools. It doesn't matter if schools are not the most efficient delivery system for this; the schools must do it under federal law if a special needs child is in the district. The school cannot outsource this function, either.

Do we have the same requirements for all charter schools?
 
2013-08-20 05:18:58 PM

Parthenogenetic: Professor Duck: /Grew up in Allentown
//Moved to Baltimore
///Considers it an improvement

So you're saying the restlessness was handed down
And it's getting very hard to staaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-a-aaa-a-a-aaa-a-a-a-aaay
aaaaaaah aaahhhhh ooooooooh ooooooh o-hhhhhhh.


I hate you now.

/Fun Fact: Not having understood the song at all, Mayor  Frank Fischl wanted to make the song "Allentown" Allentown's official anthem when it was released in 1982.
//The song is really about Bethlehem, though.
///Not much rhymes with "Bethlehem"
 
2013-08-20 05:19:22 PM

BMFPitt: Philly public schools were a mess long before Corbett was elected.

I know about half a dozen teachers who GTFO of there as soon as they could find a job anywhere else.

I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.


THIS.

Can the basement living liberals explain how a city school system get 40 MILLION dollars from the city last year, and be 300 MILLION in the hole this year?

CORRUPTION anyone
 
2013-08-20 05:20:25 PM

TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven."  They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.


I'll bet you think the education system in Sweden is top notch, don't you? Or, that you just love the school system in the Netherlands. You would, wouldn't you?
 
2013-08-20 05:20:41 PM
Replace "Schools" with any other government program.

The Republican Ideal of Governing.
 
2013-08-20 05:22:24 PM

Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.


Is this next-level trolling? I can't tell anymore.
 
2013-08-20 05:24:47 PM

Chummer45: Ever notice how the GOP is always promoting "privatizing" things where it does not make any farking sense to do so?

Public school system underperforming?  I know how to fix it!  Lets put a for-profit corporation in charge of it instead.  Because, you see, having our schools under the control of a company whose primary (and only) motivation is to turn a profit will result in the best education for our children, somehow.

/they argue the same crap regarding healthcare
//using the "power of the free market" doesn't make any sense in certain public sectors, like health care, education, and prisons.


'cause this  totally wouldn't be the end result:
oi39.tinypic.com
 
2013-08-20 05:26:48 PM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.
 
2013-08-20 05:36:20 PM
Just before I left that hellhole, the superintendent Arlene Ackerman was paid nearly a million dollars to quit her job. She was brought in to fix the system, and somehow managed to make it worse. A couple months later she tried claiming unemployment as well.

You can't make this shiat up.
 
2013-08-20 05:41:05 PM

Garet Garrett: mediablitz: Garet Garrett: TheBigJerk: Vouchers are not, "unproven." They have been thoroughly tested and proven wrong.

So says the product of a public education, I'm guessing?

Or, you know, facts. Attack the messenger!

I was referring to his command of English.  Or, more particularly, his lack thereof.


Ah. You had no argument.

Fair enough.
 
2013-08-20 05:51:28 PM
This does sound like a model of "HOW to build another Detroit."
The cycle of bad schools, leading to more middle class flight, less money, worse schools, and repeat.
The only possible outcome is Detroit-esque.
 
2013-08-20 05:53:53 PM

Chummer45: //using the "power of the free market" doesn't make any sense in certain public sectors, like health care, education, and prisons.


Unless your actual goal is to make money for your friends!!

Water and other utilities also fall into this same trap.
Look at the Enron/PG&E BULLshiat which was caused by privatization and lax regulation.
 
2013-08-20 05:55:08 PM
As a resident of Philly who hails from NEPA, I can say that there are some very good things that happen in the Philly schools. The budget's big, because the student population is big, and growing.  Yes, there is a pretty large administrative corps in the city.  Schools like Masterman and Central have some amazing teachers.  But Harrisburg is trying to break the Philadelphia teachers' union, so as to put the fear and make the rest of them throughout the state subservient.  The entire public education apparatus is getting screwed, from Penn State and Temple, to the kindergardens.  And the charter schools themselves have a lot less accountability than the public schools.  So of course their directors are going to be kicking money back to the GOP and their cronies in the State Assembly.

Some of the neighborhood middle schools in poorer black neighborhoods in the city... they don't have money to keep the walls and floors dry, and haven't had that money for a decade.  And Harrisburg runs the funding for the district.  They're assholes, and don't give a fark because they don't have to answer to the local populace.

Kinda like the Parking Authority. Another GOP patronage front in the city that has hordes of stealthy ninja-like farkers that is just a bunch of rent-seekers.  And they simply don't give a shiat about treating people decently, either.
 
2013-08-20 05:55:30 PM

scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?


Twenty bucks, Reverend, just like uptown.
 
2013-08-20 05:58:02 PM

namatad: Chummer45: //using the "power of the free market" doesn't make any sense in certain public sectors, like health care, education, and prisons.

Unless your actual goal is to make money for your friends!!

Water and other utilities also fall into this same trap.
Look at the Enron/PG&E BULLshiat which was caused by privatization and lax regulation.


CSB: the water here was recently privitized and prices doubled. Shiats lame.
 
2013-08-20 05:58:30 PM

DeaH: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.


Here we have an example of "If things are bad, blame a republican". Democrats never shipped your job overseas.... What's that Mr. Manufacturing? 1993 you say? NAFTA/GATT you say? Clinton you say?
 
2013-08-20 06:04:53 PM
As someone who works for a charter school, shiat like this pisses me off. We are destroying education one child at a time, and I'm not sure there will be a road back.


/charter schools don't work for every student
 
2013-08-20 06:05:59 PM

czei: Hey, with crappy schools there will be more juvenile offenders, which means more profits!

http://www.copblock.org/33684/pennsylvania-judge-sentenced-to-28-yea rs -in-prison-for-selling-teens-to-prisons/


California Couldn't Pay our Education
 
2013-08-20 06:13:40 PM
um
how could their be ANY bad teachers left?
haven't the NUTS on the right been harping about bad teachers for decades now?
haven't they fixed that problem already??
 
2013-08-20 06:30:11 PM
This has been happening for years now - it ain't news.
 
2013-08-20 06:31:08 PM

Ambitwistor: thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".

I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

And Wilmington, Delaware is not much better.


Not to mention the out of control banana trucks.
 
2013-08-20 06:47:28 PM

I alone am best: DeaH: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.

Here we have an example of "If things are bad, blame a republican". Democrats never shipped your job overseas.... What's that Mr. Manufacturing? 1993 you say? NAFTA/GATT you say? Clinton you say?


You mean the NAFTA that George H. W. Bush spearheaded at the end of the farking sixties, and Bill Clinton refused to sign until it included workers protections? That NAFTA?
 
2013-08-20 07:52:49 PM

Nadie_AZ: DarkSoulNoHope: scottydoesntknow: The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

What's a noon aid?

[heystupid.files.wordpress.com image 480x320]

Is that chick on the left side the same as the one from Traffic? Erika Christensen?


Possibly, hard to tell who Kevin Smith hired as extras on that film, unless you somehow get a hold of his call sheets.
 
2013-08-20 07:56:18 PM

GoodDoctorB: I alone am best: DeaH: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.

Here we have an example of "If things are bad, blame a republican". Democrats never shipped your job overseas.... What's that Mr. Manufacturing? 1993 you say? NAFTA/GATT you say? Clinton you say?

You mean the NAFTA that George H. W. Bush spearheaded at the end of the farking sixties, and Bill Clinton refused to sign until it included workers protections? That NAFTA?


I didn't realize a freshman congressman from Texas had that much pull.

/eighties ;)
 
2013-08-20 07:56:57 PM
Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

How much is comcast paying in property tax on their skyscraper?

Maybe they got a deal at the expense of the children.....
 
2013-08-20 08:16:21 PM

Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.


this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.
 
2013-08-20 08:16:32 PM
Not surprisingly, Corbett isn't just doing this to the schools, he's also doing it to the state run colleges as well. My stepmother works for Shippensburg University, and she says they've seen their state funding dwindling since Corbett got office.
 
2013-08-20 08:18:39 PM

Peki: Let's just remember, class.

The first rule in exploiting people is making sure they aren't educated enough to read the contract or know their rights.


Works for Best Korea.
 
2013-08-20 08:52:57 PM

Psylence: The Hon. Budd Dwyer has a retirement program that the people of PA would really like Corbett to examine closely.


And R Budd Dwyer was a gun-totin' republican.
 
2013-08-20 09:01:15 PM

d23: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

You put all the voters that do this about Democrats and all the voters that do this about the GOP into one room, and I will show you a room that contains 98% of this countries political problems.

The GOP, up to its eyes in idiots right now, just happen to be the more visible of the two right now.


Most of us who vote a straight Democratic ticket do so while holding our noses. The basic fact is that we choose option (D) because option (R) is so noxious. It's like choosing between rancid meat or cyanide tablets for dinner. There's no decision here, as awful as it is to follow through with that decision.
 
2013-08-20 09:10:11 PM
Why we allow for-profit charter schools is beyond me. I work for a non-profit charter that has the same requirements for testing, reporting, and providing special education services as all the other schools in the state. We have direct oversight from the school district, are audited every year, and are expected to achieve at least equal results as the school district.

There are certain elements of public service that should never be run by for-profit interests: education, healthcare and prisons are probably the top three.
 
2013-08-20 09:12:40 PM

Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.


Glass-Steagall was Wall Street waving big bucks in front of all politicians. Most politicians bit. The few who didn't were overwhelmingly democrats. PATRIOT Act was also a GOP-led legislation that most democrats joined in only because it was politically suicidal to not to, at the time. Again, the few who were against the PATRIOT Act were democrats. Can you name any GOP congressperson who were against Glass-Steagall or the PATRIOT Act?
 
2013-08-20 09:12:42 PM

namatad: Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.


Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?
 
2013-08-20 09:23:55 PM

dericwater: Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.

Glass-Steagall was Wall Street waving big bucks in front of all politicians. Most politicians bit. The few who didn't were overwhelmingly democrats. PATRIOT Act was also a GOP-led legislation that most democrats joined in only because it was politically suicidal to not to, at the time. Again, the few who were against the PATRIOT Act were democrats. Can you name any GOP congressperson who were against Glass-Steagall or the PATRIOT Act?


^^^ The REPEAL of Glass-Steagall, I mean.
 
2013-08-20 09:26:08 PM

Gecko Gingrich: GoodDoctorB: I alone am best: DeaH: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.

Here we have an example of "If things are bad, blame a republican". Democrats never shipped your job overseas.... What's that Mr. Manufacturing? 1993 you say? NAFTA/GATT you say? Clinton you say?

You mean the NAFTA that George H. W. Bush spearheaded at the end of the farking sixties, and Bill Clinton refused to sign until it included workers protections? That NAFTA?

I didn't realize a freshman congressman from Texas had that much pull.

/eighties ;)


Ah, yeah, thanks. Started pushing it in '86, not '68. Dyslexic sometimes I am.
 
2013-08-20 09:27:01 PM

Giltric: namatad: Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.

Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?


Not at all. But I would think the results would be closer than if the spending were proportional to the districts' funding.

Remember, schooling is only 1/3 of the kid's day. Teachers and schools have little control over the other 2/3 which includes sleep, eating and other activities. If the teachers and schools can control some of the 2/3 of the time to encourage continued learning (i.e., doing homework), then yes, the results will converge.
 
2013-08-20 09:47:14 PM

dericwater: Giltric: namatad: Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.

Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?

Not at all. But I would think the results would be closer than if the spending were proportional to the districts' funding.

Remember, schooling is only 1/3 of the kid's day. Teachers and schools have little control over the other 2/3 which includes sleep, eating and other activities. If the teachers and schools can control some of the 2/3 of the time to encourage continued learning (i.e., doing homework), then yes, the results will converge.


Ultimately, whether a school is charter or public, magnet or private, parochial or secular, it all comes down to one thing: How invested the parent is in the kid's education. All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything. The reason charter, private and parochial schools tend to do better is that parents who send their kids there  have made some kind of effort to GET the kids there (monetary, emotional, religious). A child in a private school whose parents are indifferent to his education will do no better than a child in a public school whose parents are indifferent; and a child in public school whose parents keep his nose to the books will do amazingly--just like her peers in the charter school up the street. It's just that there are more of those parents at the charter school than in the public school. Which is sad.

If all schools became charter schools, or if all schools got equal or proportional spending across the board, or whatever--the results would stay the same, because the parents wouldn't change. The ones who want their kids to succeed would succeed, and the ones who think Ds are good enough would get Ds.
 
2013-08-20 10:00:05 PM

Kimothy: Why we allow for-profit charter schools is beyond me.


So completely ignoring the fact that public schools are generally run as for-profit enterprises by the teachers unions right now, what is wrong with a profit motive if that leads to better schools?  Shouldn't getting the best education at the best price be the only considerations, and everything else a means to that end?

There are certain elements of public service that should never be run by for-profit interests: education courts, healthcare law enforcement and prisons are probably the top three.

And I put those over even the military in an ideal world where it was properly sized and scoped unlike now.  Do you boycott medicines, treatments and devices that were created for profit?
 
2013-08-20 10:04:57 PM

BMFPitt: Kimothy: Why we allow for-profit charter schools is beyond me.

So completely ignoring the fact that public schools are generally run as for-profit enterprises by the teachers unions right now, what is wrong with a profit motive if that leads to better schools?  Shouldn't getting the best education at the best price be the only considerations, and everything else a means to that end?

There are certain elements of public service that should never be run by for-profit interests: education courts, healthcare law enforcement and prisons are probably the top three.

And I put those over even the military in an ideal world where it was properly sized and scoped unlike now.  Do you boycott medicines, treatments and devices that were created for profit?


There are business ideas that should never be created for profit. Prisons should never be for profit. Firefighting should never be for profit. Then there are business ideas that can be for profit, but is on a slippery slope. Medicine and education are two such. Some education should certainly be for profit. For example, learning a specific sport can and should be done for-profit. But general knowledge academic style education? No. Some medicine, such as elective plastic surgery or optometry or som orthodontia should be for-profit, but basic health care should not. Some pharmaceuticals should be for profit, like viagra. Some should not.
 
2013-08-20 10:05:53 PM

Craptastic: Headso: Electing republicans to positions in government is like hiring the unibomber to head up your IT department.

They're not "repulicans" anymore. They're "independents" and "lolbertarians".


You are correct, which is why i self identify as a progressive liberal democrat, because those words make the words i say more right.

Next administration I'll parrot the party line for contracts too, it works out great financially, and no one really questions it because


I keep saying in my mind, like an announcer at a destruction derby, someday someday someday!
 
2013-08-20 10:43:49 PM
dericwater: Prisons should never be for profit.

Correct.

Firefighting should never be for profit.


Why are you opposed to people who want extra fire protection buying more so that public resources are freed up for everyone else?

Then there are business ideas that can be for profit, but is on a slippery slope. Medicine and education are two such. Some education should certainly be for profit. For example, learning a specific sport can and should be done for-profit. But general knowledge academic style education? No.

Why?  Why are you so fundamentally opposed to using profit motive to improve schools?  Why are actual results secondary to this opposition?

Some medicine, such as elective plastic surgery or optometry or som orthodontia should be for-profit, but basic health care should not. Some pharmaceuticals should be for profit, like viagra. Some should not.

So I will ask again.  Since a large percentage of modern medicine was created for profit, do you refuse to utilize such medicines, devices, etc?

If you had some disease that currently has no treatment, would you want there to be any money in finding a cure or not?
 
2013-08-20 11:01:35 PM
What could ever go wrong?
i265.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-20 11:13:56 PM

Giltric: Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?


no of course not.
but they are not even CLOSE to similar levels of funding. and that includes buildings and buses and what not.

Do you think it is even CLOSE to possible to have the same results if one district has twice the spending of another?

Do you think that it is reasonable to assume that poor students would actually need MORE funding than rich kids? not equal funding. You know, for things like food and pencils?

Are you aware of drives which are done in poor districts to collect supplies for homeless kids?

Are you actually ok with the current funding method? AKA fark the poor brown kids?
 
2013-08-20 11:21:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything.


yes no sort of
no one has ever argued that the schools can make up for a homeless kid's life versus a rich kid's life.
BUT the schools are literally all some of these kids have.
In the end, parity funding would be the bottom of the barrel start for fixing the problem.
Instead, those same kids have less from their schools.
Start lower, with less, and the outcome is expected.

Most of the studies done on Head Start showed amazing results at improving the outcomes for poor kids.

but there is no worry. this problem wont get fixed, nor addressed anytime soon. the people with the money have made certain that they dont have to share with others.

/keep in mind, I happily pay property taxes in a big city, to pay for other peoples' children to be educated. It is the moral thing to do.
/Simple enough to fix the funding. make it statewide and income tax based. LOL like that will ever happen.
 
2013-08-20 11:36:33 PM

DarwiOdrade: Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.

Aren't you adorably misinformed. The senate banking committee vote was along strict party lines, as was the eventual full senate vote, except for one D voting along with the Rs. Even in the House, the Rs voted over 90% to repeal G-S, while the Ds only had 2/3 support.


My aren't you full of derp.

Clinton's  Statement on Signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This historic legislation will modernize our financial services laws, stimulating greater innovation and competition in the financial services industry. America's consumers, our communities, and the economy will reap the benefits of this Act.

I think you owe someone an apology.
 
2013-08-21 12:00:21 AM
GOPers have been doing this for years with schools, the post office and most public services.
 
2013-08-21 12:08:49 AM

namatad: Gyrfalcon: All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything.

yes no sort of
no one has ever argued that the schools can make up for a homeless kid's life versus a rich kid's life.
BUT the schools are literally all some of these kids have.
In the end, parity funding would be the bottom of the barrel start for fixing the problem.
Instead, those same kids have less from their schools.
Start lower, with less, and the outcome is expected.

Most of the studies done on Head Start showed amazing results at improving the outcomes for poor kids.

but there is no worry. this problem wont get fixed, nor addressed anytime soon. the people with the money have made certain that they dont have to share with others.

/keep in mind, I happily pay property taxes in a big city, to pay for other peoples' children to be educated. It is the moral thing to do.
/Simple enough to fix the funding. make it statewide and income tax based. LOL like that will ever happen.


Well, in general, I mean. Sure, when it comes down to cases, a great teacher can make up for a lot. Always when I talk, I'm usually speaking in generalizations unless I mean not to. IN GENERAL, parents are the significant factor...subject to a million individual alternatives, as you say.
 
2013-08-21 12:24:46 AM

Magruda: DarwiOdrade: Tomahawk513: Ned Stark: Weaver95: Ambivalence: This is becoming common enough among republican politicians it's a wonder anyone votes for the, anymore.

I honestly don't know. There's this downright bizarre mental block among GOP voters tho. Most cannot focus on the faults of their own party. I mean that literally. They ALWAYS change the subject to the democrats. I can't get my remaining GOP friends to admit that the republicans have made mistakes,

It's very strange.

Good thing Democrats would never have that sort of problem.

Getting rid of Glass-Steagul, supporting the Patriot Act, that's two quick ones.

Aren't you adorably misinformed. The senate banking committee vote was along strict party lines, as was the eventual full senate vote, except for one D voting along with the Rs. Even in the House, the Rs voted over 90% to repeal G-S, while the Ds only had 2/3 support.

My aren't you full of derp.

Clinton's  Statement on Signing the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act

Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. This historic legislation will modernize our financial services laws, stimulating greater innovation and competition in the financial services industry. America's consumers, our communities, and the economy will reap the benefits of this Act.

I think you owe someone an apology.


Why? Is something I said false? I never denied there was some bipartisan support. You do understand that Congress votes and the president just signs, don't you?
 
2013-08-21 12:30:51 AM

Giltric: namatad: Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.

Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?


probably not, but maybe the differences wouldn't be so marked.  Maybe if you can hire more teachers and decrease class sizes you can get a couple of kids that might have otherwise fallen through the cracks.  If a teacher only has to control 20 kids instead of 40, there's a better chance he or she can spend more time teaching vs time on discipline and class control.

I'm not a believer in state of the art crap.  I don't think schools need computer labs, tablets, wifi, etc.  They need up-to-date books and up to date teachers to teach essential knowledge and skills.  Maybe for the older kids you can introduce some amount of web searching to have kids answer questions and teach them how to discern valuable information and answer questions critically.  But for your basic kids, yeah, I think spending money on more good teachers (smaller class sizes) and good books will make a hell of a difference.

I frankly agree that all school funding should purely be a combo of federal and state, so that each school gets the same.  Failing school districts can get permission to use their own tax money to offer signing bonuses or increase the income offer of highly touted outside teachers or grads in an attempt to draw them to their district and improve their lot.  the way it is now, there's no incentives for a great teacher to have to teach bigger classes with kids who are less knowledgeable and more distracted in exchange for lower pay and higher criticism because they didn't manage to get 95% of the troubled kids up to state standardized test standards.  Why would anybody but the most desperate teacher want to do that?
 
2013-08-21 12:34:12 AM

Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.


www.hiphoprollcall.com
 
2013-08-21 12:35:48 AM

namatad: Gyrfalcon: All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything.

yes no sort of
no one has ever argued that the schools can make up for a homeless kid's life versus a rich kid's life.
BUT the schools are literally all some of these kids have.
In the end, parity funding would be the bottom of the barrel start for fixing the problem.
Instead, those same kids have less from their schools.
Start lower, with less, and the outcome is expected.

Most of the studies done on Head Start showed amazing results at improving the outcomes for poor kids.

but there is no worry. this problem wont get fixed, nor addressed anytime soon. the people with the money have made certain that they dont have to share with others.

/keep in mind, I happily pay property taxes in a big city, to pay for other peoples' children to be educated. It is the moral thing to do.
/Simple enough to fix the funding. make it statewide and income tax based. LOL like that will ever happen.


I agree it's the moral thing to do, but you can very easily sell it as a self interest.  I am interested in a lower crime rate.  Kids that go off to college don't stick around my neighborhood selling pot.  Kids that want to go to college go home at dusk to finish their papers instead of knocking over mailboxes.

Moreover, kids who go to college come out and get jobs that I might want to hire them for.  As an anesthesiologist, I'm interested in hiring an anesthesia tech who is quick and smart and can learn how to manage equipment.  I can't find people like that in my community if there are no schools to educate kids before they become adults.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.  You won't appeal to modern conservatives by telling them anything is the "moral thing to do".  You have to appeal to their sense of selfishness to truly convince them of the merit of anything.
 
2013-08-21 12:39:40 AM

Gyrfalcon: dericwater: Giltric: namatad: Giltric: Why should i be subsidizing philly schools? They have plenty of property to tax and pricey ones at that..my property taxes are busy paying for my school district.

this is why all public schools should be solely funded by states and federal funds. period.
every student in a state should have exactly the same amount of money spent for public education.

DISTRICT funding has become de facto private school.

MY district is only rich white kids in the suburb.
YOU district is only poor brown kids in the evil city.

This is no longer public funding.

Do you think each school district would have the same results if they all had the same per student spending?

Not at all. But I would think the results would be closer than if the spending were proportional to the districts' funding.

Remember, schooling is only 1/3 of the kid's day. Teachers and schools have little control over the other 2/3 which includes sleep, eating and other activities. If the teachers and schools can control some of the 2/3 of the time to encourage continued learning (i.e., doing homework), then yes, the results will converge.

Ultimately, whether a school is charter or public, magnet or private, parochial or secular, it all comes down to one thing: How invested the parent is in the kid's education. All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything. The reason charter, private and parochial schools tend to do better is that parents who send their kids there  have made some kind of effort to GET the kids there (monetary, emotional, religious). A child in a private school whose parents are indifferent to his education will do no better than a child in a public school whose parents are indifferent; and a child in public school whose parents keep his nose to the books will do amazingly--just like her peers in the charter ...


I agree.  I had a coworker who moved almost an hour away because he wanted to have his kids in some school district  that was supposed to be really great.  Mind you, the place where we work is surrounded by solidly middle to upper middle class homes, and the school district is good, though I admit, not as good as the one he moved away for.

So now this guy has to commute almost an hour there and an hour back.

I asked him if it wouldn't help his kids more for him to have a 5 minute commute and spend 55 minutes helping them with their homework instead.

He seemed upset at me, but I think he was more upset that he hadn't ever thought about it before.  I could see from his reaction he agreed with me.
 
2013-08-21 12:40:46 AM

Gecko Gingrich: GoodDoctorB: I alone am best: DeaH: Garet Garrett: Great_Milenko: Never underestimate the pettiness and spitefulness of the average American voter.

And never underestimate the contempt that liberals have for their fellow man.

This has been a brilliant right-wing ploy for decades. Sure, the right-wing will give business people incentives to ship your good job overseas and lower your wages. Yes, the right-wing has a proven poor track record when it comes to the economy. Yes, they put laws in place that make your life and your family's life measurably worse. The right-wing has shown through more than 40 years of actions that thye have nothing but complete and utter contempt for any but the richest few, but that left-wing guy over there doesn't RESPECT you, so vote for us.

Here we have an example of "If things are bad, blame a republican". Democrats never shipped your job overseas.... What's that Mr. Manufacturing? 1993 you say? NAFTA/GATT you say? Clinton you say?

You mean the NAFTA that George H. W. Bush spearheaded at the end of the farking sixties, and Bill Clinton refused to sign until it included workers protections? That NAFTA?

I didn't realize a freshman congressman from Texas had that much pull.

/eighties ;)


I bet a montage was somehow employed.
 
2013-08-21 12:57:53 AM

BMFPitt: So completely ignoring the fact that public schools are generally run as for-profit enterprises by the teachers unions right now, what is wrong with a profit motive if that leads to better schools?


That's a pretty big if.  For-profit colleges, for example, are notorious for scammy high prices, high default and dropout rates for students, failure to acquire or maintain regional accreditation, and a general reputation for exploiting low-information customers and giving them something of very little value.

If the for-profit model did lead to better colleges, or even led to slightly below-average colleges, then you'd have a point:  if it works, then what's wrong with it?  As it stands, however, the for-profit college model has about as much credibility as a pyramid scheme.
 
2013-08-21 01:25:13 AM

DarwiOdrade: Why? Is something I said false? I never denied there was some bipartisan support. You do understand that Congress votes and the president just signs, don't you?


DarwiOdrade: Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.


This is the leader of the Democratic party.

This is the vote summary for the Senate.

7 Democrats and one Republican voted Nay.

This is the summary for the House.

51 Democrats, 5 Republicans, and 1 independent voted Nay, 155 Democrats voted Yea.

Your claim of only 2/3 support is factually incorrect and the leader of the party was "Pleased to sign" it.

Politics is not a team sport.
 
2013-08-21 01:48:10 AM

Magruda: DarwiOdrade: Why? Is something I said false? I never denied there was some bipartisan support. You do understand that Congress votes and the president just signs, don't you?

DarwiOdrade: Today I am pleased to sign into law S. 900, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.

This is the leader of the Democratic party.

This is the vote summary for the Senate.

7 Democrats and one Republican voted Nay.

This is the summary for the House.

51 Democrats, 5 Republicans, and 1 independent voted Nay, 155 Democrats voted Yea.

Your claim of only 2/3 support is factually incorrect and the leader of the party was "Pleased to sign" it.

Politics is not a team sport.


That's the conference report, not the the actual bill. Thanks for playing though.
 
2013-08-21 02:17:03 AM

DarwiOdrade: That's the conference report, not the the actual bill. Thanks for playing though.


Oh i'm sorry. I'm sure if i look up the real vote you will have been correct....

Looks like it was only 153 Democrats that voted Yea. But still the same numbers in the Nay column. I hope you will accept my apology in proving that you were still wrong.
 
2013-08-21 02:18:00 AM
 
2013-08-21 02:24:32 AM
Because i'm sure you will come back saying it's still just the conference report.

DarwiOdrade: That's the conference report, not the the actual bill. Thanks for playing though.


conference report -The compromise product negotiated by the conference committee. The "conference report," which is printed and available to senators, is submitted to each chamber for its consideration, such as approval or disapproval

http://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/conference_report.htm

Civics 101
 
2013-08-21 03:11:09 AM

BMFPitt: dericwater: Prisons should never be for profit.

Correct.

Firefighting should never be for profit.

Why are you opposed to people who want extra fire protection buying more so that public resources are freed up for everyone else?


Have you ever read the history of the Great Chicago Fire? It became great because they had this wonderful for-profit idea and the fire department didn't want to touch it because those who didn't pay into them were on fire. Then the fire took off and suddenly, it was out of control. The same thing happened recently in Tennessee.

Also, just imagine what happens. You pay the basic plan, another person pays the preferred plan (or whatever term you want to call it). Fire starts at your place, the fire department drags their feet on it. Now, everyone knows that you have to go to the preferred plan. Suddenly, what used to be $50/month, say is now $150/month for the preferred. Now, they offer the gold policy plan at $250/month. Where does it end? And through all this, they still can drag their feet even with the preferred plan or the gold policy plan. Oopsie, we couldn't get there in time. Want to pay for a different fire department? Oh, you mean the one in that town 20 miles away? Yeah, sure, go for it.

Then there are business ideas that can be for profit, but is on a slippery slope. Medicine and education are two such. Some education should certainly be for profit. For example, learning a specific sport can and should be done for-profit. But general knowledge academic style education? No.

Why?  Why are you so fundamentally opposed to using profit motive to improve schools?  Why are actual results secondary to this opposition?


Let's look globally. Finland has one of the best school systems in the world. Non-profit. Japan. All of Western and Central Europe. All non-profit. Way better than the US. What do you get if you go for-profit? Let's look at the for-profits here in the US. University of Phoenix. POS. Full Sail Academy. Rips off veterans returning from wars. The vets aren't personally burdened by the rip off, since the VA pays for the tuition. But they get almost nothing in return. Can you name one for-profit academic institution that gives great results for their students? I can't.

Even the non-profit traditional schools are lagging behind in delivering a great product/service. Why? Because the fundamental concept of teaching says that a non-profit model is better. Why? If I know something, why should I teach it to you as soon as possible? I'm going to drag it out as long as I can so I can maximize my income from you. It's the "I taught you everything you know. But I didn't teach you everything I know" ploy. Look at martial arts schools, music schools, and other for-profit schools of that sort. That's exactly the model they follow to maximize their income. That's why we have accreditation, so make sure we don't have scammers like that.

Some medicine, such as elective plastic surgery or optometry or som orthodontia should be for-profit, but basic health care should not. Some pharmaceuticals should be for profit, like viagra. Some should not.

So I will ask again.  Since a large percentage of modern medicine was created for profit, do you refuse to utilize such medicines, devices, etc?


In almost every country in the world, medicine is offered as non-profit. And most of them provide better service for lower prices and better returns than what we get here in the US. Only in the US is a reasonably large percentage created for profit.

Do you know what you get in for-profit? You get viagra and drugs for simple afflictions. For serious stuff like cancer and such? No way would for-profit big-pharma touch that with bleeding-edge research. They would just ignore that and wait for the non-profit institutions like schools or national labs to find the research.

I have a friend who works at Genentech. She's a pharma person with a PhD. She gets exasperated when going over the plan with a potential drug with the marketing department. They don't want a drug that cures people of a disease. They want a drug that helps the person not get problems with the disease as long as they keep taking the drug.

It's like offering insulin for the rest of you life versus developing a drug or procedure that would get your pancreas to work properly. The marketing team would rather have the former than the latter, because getting people to pay $100/month for the rest of their life earns more money than a one-time payment of $1000 or whatever it would be to cure diabetes.

And then there are those pharmas that take a drug that was created primarily to cure X, but also does a great job curing Y. Because it's a bit old, it's now generic. So this pharma takes the drug, add some non-functional additive to it, re-package it as a new drug primarily to cure Y and then charges 100x the amount that the old drug was charged for. This actually happened for some drug related to pregnancy or something to do with women and their reproductive system.

For-profiting in the medical field will actually inhibit more research. Provide pharmaceuticals to people that will only help solve trivial problems like ED or restless leg syndrome and avoid solving really serious problem diseases.

If you had some disease that currently has no treatment, would you want there to be any money in finding a cure or not?

I would rather die than give even a penny to the medical industry. If all of us accepted this condition, we can break their control. The medical industry is not here to keep me healthy. It's here to reap as much money as they can through poisoning us and the charge us for the antidote. fark them.
 
2013-08-21 04:38:40 AM
I like how giving your money back to you so you can use to send your child to the school you want is "defunding"

If I take 10 dollars from you and use it to buy you what I think you should eat from the restaurant of my choosing, I guess I'm 'defunding' that restaurant if I give your 10 dollars back and let you select where to spend it.

The minds of liberals. I swear.
 
2013-08-21 09:04:28 AM
There there...lets not let facts get in the way of rabid liberal butthurt.  TFA mentions that the governor's office took over Philly schools in 2001.  I wonder why?

In return, Mr. Street won a commitment from the governor to add $75 million to the system's nearly $2 billion budget to help close a $200 million operating deficit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/22/us/in-largest-schools-takeover-st ate -will-run-philadelphia-s.html

So the City of Philadelphia cant manage its schools effectively and the city residents of Philly, one of the highest taxed cities in the country cant fund its schools without hundreds upon millions of dollars in shortfalls.  Perhaps the question should be, why after decades of Democrat leadership in a city which is 90/10 Blue did the school district fail?

This is like calling dad and asshole for not letting you have a car without first mentioning that the last time he let you drive his, you wrapped it around a tree.
 
2013-08-21 09:17:06 AM

Garet Garrett: Oh, come on.  TFA is beyond ridicule.  In 2001 when the commonwealth took over the district, per-pupil spending was at about $8,300, and by 2010 it was up to $13,300 (inflation adjusted) - a 52% increase.   For eight of the 12 years the district's been under commonwealth control, it was under Ed Rendell, hardly a GOP tool.  And how did they fare?  They kept going down the shiatter.  Which is remarkable, because before 2001 it wouldn't have occurred to anyone that it could get much worse.

Of course, you didn't hear a hue and cry from teachers as things eroded; when, year after year, the children went uneducated, too often propelled into a near-hopeless life of dependency.  No, you don't hear about the woes of Philadelphia until things happen that matter.  I.e., layoffs.

The problem is not insufficient state support.  Period, full stop.

But here we go again, with the usual suspects demanding that more of the same policies that caused the problem with solve the problem.  Justified, of course, by the fruits of their malfeasance:  "We have so much poverty, we need more resources!"  And why should we think you'll succeed now, with today's money, when you failed so miserably with all the other billions of dollars we spent on you?  Bad news:  Some of us notice who was "educating" the people whom you now blame for your present difficulties.

Give the kids of Philadelphia a break.  Stop pretending that there is ANY benefit to the outsourced-to-a-private-organization-with-a-monopoly, so-called "public" education system for the people of Philadelphia.  Is there no result for the children that is so catastrophic that people might be willing to tell the system to fark off?  How many children must be sacrificed to appease the gods of "public" education?  Ferchissakes, people, think what we're doing.


I find it amusing that none of the moronic progressives in the thread has even bothered to touch this.
 
2013-08-21 10:41:46 AM

Magruda: DarwiOdrade: That's the conference report, not the the actual bill. Thanks for playing though.

Oh i'm sorry. I'm sure if i look up the real vote you will have been correct....

Looks like it was only 153 Democrats that voted Yea. But still the same numbers in the Nay column. I hope you will accept my apology in proving that you were still wrong.


The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1, 1999, by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (Republicans 205-16; Democrats 138-69; Independent 0-1),[5][6][note 1] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6 by a much-narrower 54-44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and 1 Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed).
 
2013-08-21 10:42:26 AM

rga184: I asked him if it wouldn't help his kids more for him to have a 5 minute commute and spend 55 minutes helping them with their homework instead.


One, you made that shiat up. Two, no, it wouldn't help his kids more. In the long run being in a better school will help more.
 
2013-08-21 10:44:08 AM

o5iiawah: I find it amusing that none of the moronic progressives in the thread has even bothered to touch this.


Ad Hominem. Right's favorite words.
 
2013-08-21 10:54:47 AM

Amish Tech Support: Ambitwistor: thurstonxhowell: coeyagi: My PA friends laughed at me when I moved to DE.  Who's laughing now, asshats?  I can go to Philly, Baltimore or DC in less than 2 hours for any of them; I don't have Corbett systematically turning my state into a Mad Max hellscape to deal with.

While your PA friends might not have a leg to stand on, I strongly disagree with your implication that Delaware is not a "Mad Max hellscape".

I come from Scranton, Pennsylvania!  And that's as hard-scrabble a place as you're gonna find.  I'll show you around some time and you'll see.  It's a hellhole!  An absolute jerkwater of a town!  You couldn't stand to spend a weekend there.  It is just an awful, awful sad place filled with sad, desperate people with no ambition!  Nobody, and I mean nobody, but me, has ever come out of that place! It's a genetic cesspool!  So don't be telling me that I'm part of the Washington elite, because I come from the absolute WORST place on Earth:  Scranton, Pennsylvania!

And Wilmington, Delaware is not much better.

Not to mention the out of control banana trucks.


Good Harry Chapin ref.

I like you!
 
2013-08-21 11:12:18 AM

o5iiawah: I find it amusing that none of the moronic progressives in the thread has even bothered to touch this.


Because it is simplistic and factually shallow?

You know, the way right wing morons like things.

Ooh! I stooped to your level!!!
 
2013-08-21 12:33:15 PM

DarwiOdrade: Magruda: DarwiOdrade: That's the conference report, not the the actual bill. Thanks for playing though.

Oh i'm sorry. I'm sure if i look up the real vote you will have been correct....

Looks like it was only 153 Democrats that voted Yea. But still the same numbers in the Nay column. I hope you will accept my apology in proving that you were still wrong.

The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1, 1999, by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (Republicans 205-16; Democrats 138-69; Independent 0-1),[5][6][note 1] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6 by a much-narrower 54-44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and 1 Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed).


You have no idea how government works. The bill i posted is the one that became law.
 
2013-08-21 12:37:02 PM

Gyrfalcon: namatad: Gyrfalcon: All that other stuff--money and teachers and religion--makes a difference, of course; but the biggest thing that matters is whether or not the PARENTS care enough to make sure the kid learns anything.

yes no sort of
no one has ever argued that the schools can make up for a homeless kid's life versus a rich kid's life.
BUT the schools are literally all some of these kids have.
In the end, parity funding would be the bottom of the barrel start for fixing the problem.
Instead, those same kids have less from their schools.
Start lower, with less, and the outcome is expected.

Most of the studies done on Head Start showed amazing results at improving the outcomes for poor kids.

but there is no worry. this problem wont get fixed, nor addressed anytime soon. the people with the money have made certain that they dont have to share with others.

/keep in mind, I happily pay property taxes in a big city, to pay for other peoples' children to be educated. It is the moral thing to do.
/Simple enough to fix the funding. make it statewide and income tax based. LOL like that will ever happen.

Well, in general, I mean. Sure, when it comes down to cases, a great teacher can make up for a lot. Always when I talk, I'm usually speaking in generalizations unless I mean not to. IN GENERAL, parents are the significant factor...subject to a million individual alternatives, as you say.


Listen to the This American Life episode "Two Steps Back."

The school managed to get parents more involved by changing the way they do parent-teacher conferences. The school also managed to significantly improve reading, writing, and other academics in a poor inner city school with only minor changes to their funding.
 
2013-08-21 12:55:25 PM

dericwater: BMFPitt: dericwater: Prisons should never be for profit.

Correct.

Firefighting should never be for profit.

Why are you opposed to people who want extra fire protection buying more so that public resources are freed up for everyone else?

Have you ever read the history of the Great Chicago Fire? It became great because they had this wonderful for-profit idea and the fire department didn't want to touch it because those who didn't pay into them were on fire. Then the fire took off and suddenly, it was out of control. The same thing happened recently in Tennessee.

Also, just imagine what happens. You pay the basic plan, another person pays the preferred plan (or whatever term you want to call it). Fire starts at your place, the fire department drags their feet on it. Now, everyone knows that you have to go to the preferred plan. Suddenly, what used to be $50/month, say is now $150/month for the preferred. Now, they offer the gold policy plan at $250/month. Where does it end? And through all this, they still can drag their feet even with the preferred plan or the gold policy plan. Oopsie, we couldn't get there in time. Want to pay for a different fire department? Oh, you mean the one in that town 20 miles away? Yeah, sure, go for it.

Then there are business ideas that can be for profit, but is on a slippery slope. Medicine and education are two such. Some education should certainly be for profit. For example, learning a specific sport can and should be done for-profit. But general knowledge academic style education? No.

Why?  Why are you so fundamentally opposed to using profit motive to improve schools?  Why are actual results secondary to this opposition?

Let's look globally. Finland has one of the best school systems in the world. Non-profit. Japan. All of Western and Central Europe. All non-profit. Way better than the US. What do you get if you go for-profit? Let's look at the for-profits here in the US. University of Phoenix. POS. Full Sail Academy. Rips off veterans returning from wars. The vets aren't personally burdened by the rip off, since the VA pays for the tuition. But they get almost nothing in return. Can you name one for-profit academic institution that gives great results for their students? I can't.

Even the non-profit traditional schools are lagging behind in delivering a great product/service. Why? Because the fundamental concept of teaching says that a non-profit model is better. Why? If I know something, why should I teach it to you as soon as possible? I'm going to drag it out as long as I can so I can maximize my income from you. It's the "I taught you everything you know. But I didn't teach you everything I know" ploy. Look at martial arts schools, music schools, and other for-profit schools of that sort. That's exactly the model they follow to maximize their income. That's why we have accreditation, so make sure we don't have scammers like that.

Some medicine, such as elective plastic surgery or optometry or som orthodontia should be for-profit, but basic health care should not. Some pharmaceuticals should be for profit, like viagra. Some should not.

So I will ask again.  Since a large percentage of modern medicine was created for profit, do you refuse to utilize such medicines, devices, etc?

In almost every country in the world, medicine is offered as non-profit. And most of them provide better service for lower prices and better returns than what we get here in the US. Only in the US is a reasonably large percentage created for profit.

Do you know what you get in for-profit? You get viagra and drugs for simple afflictions. For serious stuff like cancer and such? No way would for-profit big-pharma touch that with bleeding-edge research. They would just ignore that and wait for the non-profit institutions like schools or national labs to find the research.

I have a friend who works at Genentech. She's a pharma person with a PhD. She gets exasperated when going over the plan with a potential drug with the marketing department. They don't want a drug that cures people of a disease. They want a drug that helps the person not get problems with the disease as long as they keep taking the drug.

It's like offering insulin for the rest of you life versus developing a drug or procedure that would get your pancreas to work properly. The marketing team would rather have the former than the latter, because getting people to pay $100/month for the rest of their life earns more money than a one-time payment of $1000 or whatever it would be to cure diabetes.

And then there are those pharmas that take a drug that was created primarily to cure X, but also does a great job curing Y. Because it's a bit old, it's now generic. So this pharma takes the drug, add some non-functional additive to it, re-package it as a new drug primarily to cure Y and then charges 100x the amount that the old drug was charged for. This actually happened for some drug related to pregnancy or something to do with women and their reproductive system.

For-profiting in the medical field will actually inhibit more research. Provide pharmaceuticals to people that will only help solve trivial problems like ED or restless leg syndrome and avoid solving really serious problem diseases.

If you had some disease that currently has no treatment, would you want there to be any money in finding a cure or not?

I would rather die than give even a penny to the medical industry. If all of us accepted this condition, we can break their control. The medical industry is not here to keep me healthy. It's here to reap as much money as they can through poisoning us and the charge us for the antidote. fark them.


Please don't confuse the entire medical industry with for profit pharma companies. Or even specific biomedical engineering companies with other pharma companies.

The medical industry, as a whole, also included all those non profit, government and private universities that do research (from basic research to specific drug testing), hospitals (both non profit and for profit), other pharma companies that can actually do good (like making vaccines to prevent diseases, which barely provide any profit), and much more.

What you said about genentech is true in some instances, but the medical industry is a whole lot bigger than that, and there are a lot of us who work to make it better for everyone.

/I like the rest of your post, though.
 
2013-08-21 02:30:44 PM

BMFPitt: Philly public schools were a mess long before Corbett was elected.

I know about half a dozen teachers who GTFO of there as soon as they could find a job anywhere else.

I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.


Yes, your suggestion was much better....oh wait.
 
2013-08-21 02:55:09 PM

MBrady: BMFPitt: Philly public schools were a mess long before Corbett was elected.

I know about half a dozen teachers who GTFO of there as soon as they could find a job anywhere else.

I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.

THIS.

Can the basement living liberals explain how a city school system get 40 MILLION dollars from the city last year, and be 300 MILLION in the hole this year?

CORRUPTION anyone


shiat costs money.
 
2013-08-21 03:12:33 PM

mediablitz: Because it is simplistic and factually shallow?


Right, because in order for something to be true, it has to be so complicated and intellectually dense that it doens't make sense.  Right. I forgot that you morons only deal with intellectual twaddle that cant be attacked because it says nothing in the first place.

Facts are that Democrats have run PA for 8/12 years of the Philly schools takeover and funding has increased 50%+ per student.  Please proceed in disputing the facts.
 
2013-08-21 06:02:35 PM

Xcott: That's a pretty big if.  For-profit colleges, for example, are notorious for scammy high prices, high default and dropout rates for students, failure to acquire or maintain regional accreditation, and a general reputation for exploiting low-information customers and giving them something of very little value.

If the for-profit model did lead to better colleges, or even led to slightly below-average colleges, then you'd have a point:  if it works, then what's wrong with it?  As it stands, however, the for-profit college model has about as much credibility as a pyramid scheme.


There's actually plenty of good value to be found out there in programs that are ineligible for federal aid.  Unfortunately, there's so much money to be made off of our student loan system that colleges (both openly for profit and supposedly public) are doing everything they can to milk the system because it's the easiest path to piles of cash.

dericwater: I would rather die than give even a penny to the medical industry. If all of us accepted this condition, we can break their control. The medical industry is not here to keep me healthy. It's here to reap as much money as they can through poisoning us and the charge us for the antidote. fark them.


That is both frightening and sad.  I hope you don't have any kids that you'll allow to die in order to prevent Merck from making a nickel.

machodonkeywrestler: Yes, your suggestion was much better....oh wait.


So you're functionally illiterate, huh?
 
2013-08-21 08:53:49 PM

machodonkeywrestler: MBrady: BMFPitt: Philly public schools were a mess long before Corbett was elected.

I know about half a dozen teachers who GTFO of there as soon as they could find a job anywhere else.

I look forward to the typical thread where everyone explains that the one and only way to improve education is to pay existing teachers more, so long as no attempt is made to direct those raises at good teachers or get rid of poor performing teachers.

THIS.

Can the basement living liberals explain how a city school system get 40 MILLION dollars from the city last year, and be 300 MILLION in the hole this year?

CORRUPTION anyone

shiat costs money.


that's like you telling your boss that a $2000 french fryer that you stand in front of all day needs $15,000 in repairs.
 
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