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(Slate)   Tesla Model S receives highest safety rating in American history   (slate.com) divider line 30
    More: Spiffy, Model S, Americans, classification society, feedback loops, electric cars  
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4237 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Aug 2013 at 10:08 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-20 10:20:13 AM
4 votes:

Explodo: I'm sure that rating is in no way politically motivated...


And without any evidence to prove such a claim, the amount of political motivation is limited only by your imagination!
2013-08-20 12:45:52 PM
2 votes:

Uranus Is Huge!: Nobody ever gives the oil companies any credit at all, but when there's an environmental disaster, they pony up more cash than anybody.


I remember when I was kid, I screwed up and trashed the kitchen really bad.  Flooded that part of the house, ruined the carpet, shorted out the fridge which caused the food to spoil.  Now when I realized what happened, I went all out cleaning it all up.  But you know how it is, the mildew smell never really gets out.  Had to throw out some really good stuffed crabs my deceased grandfather made. Some handmade, family heirloom type things were ruined beyond repair.

But does anybody ever thank me for doing the lion share of the clean up?  Hell no.  All I ever get is how I ruined all this stuff because I wanted to save a few bucks on a washer hose.  I mean, I was looking at the big picture pocketed a few bucks on a cheaper hose instead of the one my dad told me to get!  Its so unfair!
2013-08-20 11:09:05 AM
2 votes:

Explodo: Unless you're leasing it, or Tesla is going to replace the battery pack for free, it's a car with near 0 resale value due to the fact that once that battery stops putting out as much power it'll cost a fortune to replace the battery pack...at least that's how they've all been so far.

Via the Tesla forum, replacement battery packs cost $30,000, which is nearly half the price of the car.  They also say the batteries are designed to last 10 years.  Well, I'll check in on that in 10 years and see how everyone is doing.  I've never had rechargeable batteries that didn't lose a significant amount of output in considerably less time.  Suddenly your 240 mile range is a 40 mile range and you can plunk down thirty grand to fix it or just buy another one.  Pfft.  I have, however, never dealt with such high-end batteries.  As I said, we'll see.

I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.


When I think of things that keep their resale value, don't require constant maintenance, and run essentially forever, I think of automobiles.
2013-08-20 10:18:05 AM
2 votes:
Because no one actually drives them. They just leave them in their driveways to out-smug the neighborhood's smug Prius drivers.
2013-08-20 10:16:23 AM
2 votes:

Glitchwerks: Voiceofreason01: It's such a pretty car and the photo they pick is a closeup of the badge?

It's really derivative of Maserati styling though.  That's nitpicking, of course.  It would just be nicer to see unique designs.


"Oh no! My girlfriend looks like Cameron Diaz"

/I'll get over it :-)
2013-08-20 02:01:35 PM
1 votes:

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


The supercharger stations are covered with solar panels.  Since the chargers will be unoccupied more often than not (just like the pumps at a typical gas station), Tesla expects to put more energy into the grid from the solar panels than they take out by charging electric cars, making it possible to offer free charging to Tesla owners.
2013-08-20 01:37:11 PM
1 votes:
Everyone talks as if the Model S is the be-all, end-all for Tesla.  The ultimate goal is to have a $30k sedan in the market before the end of this decade.  What's the point of building charging stations if the cars aren't on the road to use them?

The only things that could possibly stop slow down Tesla are: the Big Three lobby, the Auto Sales lobby, the Oil Lobby, and the UAW.

What's not to like about the future of Tesla?  They're an American manufacturer, they've paid back their government loan EARLY, they sell direct to the consumer, they have one of the most advanced assembly lines ever constructed, and - oh yeah - they happen to make safe, reliable cars that hit their benchmarks.
2013-08-20 01:28:13 PM
1 votes:

Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing?


No, they don't.

On the other hand, your car will explode if you drop a lit cigarette into the gas tank.
2013-08-20 01:25:12 PM
1 votes:

groppet: I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Actually it wouldn't really help much at all.

The Tesla Model S has an 85kwh battery pack.  But state of the art solar panels put out no more than .2kw per square meter. With the standard 5 hours of equivalent peak hours of sun per day, you are talking only 1kwh per day for a 1 square meter panel which is about as big as you could put on the roof.  The Model S uses about 0.3kwh per mile, so your solar panel would only get you an extra three miles of range per day.
The super chargers run at 120kw, so it would only take 30 seconds for them to match your solar panel's daily output.
2013-08-20 01:12:57 PM
1 votes:

groppet: I like the Tesla, the one improvement I would make on it would be to have a solar panel on the hood or roof. I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Meh, with the area you've got to work with you'll never get more than 200 Watt/hours of charging potential, and that's with nice clear sunny days. Too much delicate silicon and weird wiring to make it workable, anyway. A covered parking area with solar panels feeding a charging station, that's more like it.
2013-08-20 01:10:07 PM
1 votes:

groppet: know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Nope. Fisker did that on the Karma. It was only good for about 4-5 miles a week if it was bright and sunny the whole time.
2013-08-20 12:52:35 PM
1 votes:

akula: IIRC, the estimates for things like a Prius battery pack was in the neighborhood of $10,000 and 100K miles of life, and current prices are far lower while lifespan being much higher. Here's a bit of actual numbers on how the hybrid batteries have done. I imagine the battery packs in BEVs will end up being pretty similar:


They'll actually do even better, due to better chemistries these days.  Tests show that the latest generation of EV batteries will be good for at least 3000 cycles.  If you do the math, that's over 600,000 miles.  There are like maybe 2 volvos in the world that have lasted that long.
2013-08-20 12:50:16 PM
1 votes:

Explodo: Unless you're leasing it, or Tesla is going to replace the battery pack for free, it's a car with near 0 resale value due to the fact that once that battery stops putting out as much power it'll cost a fortune to replace the battery pack...at least that's how they've all been so far.

Via the Tesla forum, replacement battery packs cost $30,000, which is nearly half the price of the car.  They also say the batteries are designed to last 10 years.  Well, I'll check in on that in 10 years and see how everyone is doing.  I've never had rechargeable batteries that didn't lose a significant amount of output in considerably less time.  Suddenly your 240 mile range is a 40 mile range and you can plunk down thirty grand to fix it or just buy another one.  Pfft.  I have, however, never dealt with such high-end batteries.  As I said, we'll see.

I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.


You have absolutely no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.
2013-08-20 12:48:48 PM
1 votes:

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


You do it like a drug dealer and get the people hooked first.  Or, they know that there is little infrastructure for the vehicles they are trying to sell.  So build it out so you can sell your cars in more locations.  Once there is large acceptance and penetration, you can start charging or sell off the stations.  There will likely be more competition for charging stations as more and more EVs are on the road.
2013-08-20 12:43:57 PM
1 votes:

theorellior: Explodo: You can change all the mechanicals in an old car to make it perform like a modern car for less money than a battery pack for a Tesla if you do the work yourself. At that point, you have a functionally new car that should last for 20-30 more years.

LOL. So we'd probably need to factor in the cost of an engine stand, various blocks, hydraulic jacks, and an assortment of tools into this equation. Not to mention the time it takes to do the work, the time it takes to learn how to do the work properly, the money it costs to correct any mistakes made, the opportunity cost of using garage or driveway square footage, and the time it takes to research exactly which modern engine one would drop into a Satellite and how one would go about doing that. Throw in some machine shop costs because there's no way around that with this kind of work. Now that I've looked at all the factors, I'm sure that's saving loads of time, money and sweat.

I like you. You're funny.


And you know... fuel costs for the next 20 years.
2013-08-20 12:37:32 PM
1 votes:

Explodo: You can change all the mechanicals in an old car to make it perform like a modern car for less money than a battery pack for a Tesla if you do the work yourself. At that point, you have a functionally new car that should last for 20-30 more years.


LOL. So we'd probably need to factor in the cost of an engine stand, various blocks, hydraulic jacks, and an assortment of tools into this equation. Not to mention the time it takes to do the work, the time it takes to learn how to do the work properly, the money it costs to correct any mistakes made, the opportunity cost of using garage or driveway square footage, and the time it takes to research exactly which modern engine one would drop into a Satellite and how one would go about doing that. Throw in some machine shop costs because there's no way around that with this kind of work. Now that I've looked at all the factors, I'm sure that's saving loads of time, money and sweat.

I like you. You're funny.
2013-08-20 12:16:32 PM
1 votes:
Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?
2013-08-20 12:07:06 PM
1 votes:

Explodo: I love the style of old cars. My goal is always modern mechanicals with old style. I want my interiors to feel like I'm sitting in the 60s but I don't want awful 60s performance.


Lemme get this straight... you brought up the fact that you like old cars because they last and you don't have to replace battery packs for loads of cash, and then you start talking about how you've replaced the original engines in those cars with modern IC engines... for loads of cash.

What exactly was your original point?
2013-08-20 12:05:47 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: It's such a pretty car and the photo they pick is a closeup of the badge?


You are correct.  Allow me to set things right.

www.autoweek.com
2013-08-20 12:04:52 PM
1 votes:

Voiceofreason01: plcow:
I work at a major oil company and there are several in the parking lot, and a few I know of who are on waitlist.  Not sure why people think that oil companies care about these.  Does everything HAVE to have a bad guy?

To be fair Carl-Henric Svanberg (Chairman of BP) is basically a Bond villain


So is Elon Musk!
2013-08-20 12:00:16 PM
1 votes:

akula: I've seen one around here in the burbs of STL. We don't even have the charging network they're building in the northeast.


A lot of people's use-cases will be covered fine by 240V charging. I have a Leaf, put in a 240V 30A station at the house (about $1000 to buy and $1000 to install), and can charge a typical day's driving in a couple hours, or 0-100% in 4 hours.

Mrs. Anomaly's been driving it lately because she drives more than I, and it saves a bunch of money over the 17MPG minivan ($0.035/mile vs. $0.206/mile).
2013-08-20 12:00:06 PM
1 votes:

SlothB77: and it came away with a score that the company characterizes as the highest rating ever received

I like with Tesla, which the media adores, their marketing materials are reprinted as news articles.

I have brief with Elon Musk or Tesla at all.  But, the media just adores them.  Imagine if a company like BP printed materials that said they received the 'highest safety rating ever received'.  Would the media reprint news articles straight from the company website press releases for BP?

The media is artificially propping Tesla up.  They are treating them uniquely.  The media doesn't reprint company press releases as news articles, taking them at their word for every company?  Why only Tesla?  Because it serves their political agenda.  Because it advances the electronic car agenda.  Whatever Tesla says, the media blindly accepts.  They doesn't question it, they aren't skeptical.  Tesla is a for-profit business.  When has the media ever not been skeptical of an evil for-profit business?  The media, with their political agenda and bias, wants certain for-profit businesses like Tesla to succeed over others, like BP.  And they do their part to try to make that happen.


Yeah. It's about time those poor, downtrodden, demonized oil companies got their due for all of the great work they fund. Nobody ever gives the oil companies any credit at all, but when there's an environmental disaster, they pony up more cash than anybody. And what do they get in return? Scorn and derision from hippies and a bunch of whining about "clean air" and "global warming". Those billions in tax subsidies are small consolation and richly deserved.

Oil companies - America's real heros
2013-08-20 11:50:30 AM
1 votes:

Lumber Jack Off: if they can get the price down to $20-$30K I would totally buy one.


I'm pretty sure every car looks like a good deal if you say "I'd like it to remain exactly as-is, but pay one-third the price."

Tesla doesn't have to crack that market.  Plenty of successful car companies stay in the "luxury" space without having to put out a $20K model.
2013-08-20 11:50:00 AM
1 votes:

Explodo: SkittlesAreYum: Explodo: Unless you're leasing it, or Tesla is going to replace the battery pack for free, it's a car with near 0 resale value due to the fact that once that battery stops putting out as much power it'll cost a fortune to replace the battery pack...at least that's how they've all been so far.

Via the Tesla forum, replacement battery packs cost $30,000, which is nearly half the price of the car.  They also say the batteries are designed to last 10 years.  Well, I'll check in on that in 10 years and see how everyone is doing.  I've never had rechargeable batteries that didn't lose a significant amount of output in considerably less time.  Suddenly your 240 mile range is a 40 mile range and you can plunk down thirty grand to fix it or just buy another one.  Pfft.  I have, however, never dealt with such high-end batteries.  As I said, we'll see.

I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.

When I think of things that keep their resale value, don't require constant maintenance, and run essentially forever, I think of automobiles.

My 1965 Nissan Patrol, 1970 Ford Bronco, and 1967 Plymouth Satellite are well past their expiration dates.


Congratulations, you're the exception.  I'm willing to bet that 3 standard deviations worth of people replace their primary car within 10 years of purchase.
2013-08-20 11:35:28 AM
1 votes:

Kimpak: Tricky Chicken: Wow, no pics yet? and this is one of the sexiest cars out there today.

[pluginchicagometro.org image 850x531]


I know I'm in the minority on this opinion, but I hate all those electric screens in cars.  I like my cars to have high-tech mechanicals and simple interiors.  I like to have gauges that show all the info that I need to know(which you can't really get in most cars).  I don't much care about the radio or even AC.  My wife, on the other hand, loves all those do-dads in the car.  They're just expensive gadgets to have to fix when they break.  Give me a USB port to plug into that's got enough data streaming from the ECU on demand and can handle audio input and I'm happy.  I really wish the OEMs would get behind that.
2013-08-20 11:23:26 AM
1 votes:

Explodo: I'm sure that rating is in no way politically motivated...


Quite the opposite.  Politicians owned by the dealership lobby are doing all they can to kill it.
2013-08-20 11:23:22 AM
1 votes:
Do I want one? Yes. Especially the model X.

Can I technically afford one? Probably. Assuming I only ever use it to go to work and back and I and my family don't do anything but school/work for a few years.

Can I reasonably afford one? No. And that's the biggest stumbling block.
2013-08-20 11:10:31 AM
1 votes:

Kimpak: Doc Daneeka: I think it's still mostly a toy for the rich at this point.

Pretty much.  It is a luxury car, hence the price.  So only the rich are going to be able to afford the thing anyway.  It being electric doesn't really mean you're saving any money in gas, due to the initial price tag.  Rather, it being electric is going to give you instant torque, which makes for a whole different driving experience.  Hopefully the tech does trickle down to us lowly folk who can only afford $20-30k cars.


But said rich person shopped the Tesla S against a Mercedes S-Class, a BMW 7-Series, and an Audi A8 before purchasing.  It's not like it was down to a Ford Fusion or a Tesla S.  The zero gasoline thing makes it very attractive versus other large luxury cars.
2013-08-20 11:09:10 AM
1 votes:

plcow: Not sure why people think that oil companies care about these.


This.

Every single claim of the "Miracle Carburetor" or "Engine Mileage Extender" uses the Big Oil excuse when the product fails to perform. Big Oil could give a shiat less about Tesla and every other alternate energy car out there because oil isn't all about gasoline.
2013-08-20 10:13:29 AM
1 votes:
It's hard to be unsafe when you can't go anywhere because your battery is out, amirite?!?!
 
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