Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Slate)   Tesla Model S receives highest safety rating in American history   (slate.com ) divider line 184
    More: Spiffy, Model S, Americans, classification society, feedback loops, electric cars  
•       •       •

4251 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Aug 2013 at 10:08 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



184 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-20 05:01:31 PM  

Target Builder: As far as funding the electricity, I assumed they are partnering with gas stations that have some sort of dining facilities and who would be more than happy to have folks with a lot of disposable income stop off for half an hour or so in exchange for five bucks of electricity.


That is a good point.  I always figured Tesla paid the locations to install charging stations.  Your point explains why the closest charger to me is in the lower deck of Garden State Plaza.  It's one of the area's largest malls, and I'm sure they love the idea of rich people being forced to spend a couple hours wandering the store in exchange for $10 worth of electricity.
 
2013-08-20 05:17:34 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.


The batteries don't wear out any time soon.  Leaf batteries should be good for 200K miles plus.

Leases on leafs are popular because they have attractive terms.  I'm sure there are a few people who imagine that the battery issue is important, but most people who are interested in getting a leaf have done enough research to get past the obsolete FUD.
 
2013-08-20 05:21:24 PM  

Driedsponge: and I'm sure they love the idea of rich people being forced to spend a couple hours wandering the store in exchange for $10 worth of electricity.


Model S charges in less than an hour.  But yeah, buy some food and what not.
 
2013-08-20 05:23:53 PM  

SlothB77: The media doesn't reprint company press releases as news articles


That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
 
2013-08-20 05:30:45 PM  

Hollie Maea: Gaseous Anomaly: That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.

The batteries don't wear out any time soon.  Leaf batteries should be good for 200K miles plus.

Leases on leafs are popular because they have attractive terms.  I'm sure there are a few people who imagine that the battery issue is important, but most people who are interested in getting a leaf have done enough research to get past the obsolete FUD.


I'm close to leasing an EV or plug-in hybrid, and I'm leaning heavily toward the Leaf at the moment.  The reason for leasing over buying on my part is not FUD on if the batteries will die.  Mine is more an issue of range and what is next.  The technology is changing so rapidly with EVs that I don't want to get one that will seem obsolete a few years down the road.  If fully expect it to work pretty much as designed after 3 years, but what will advances will be made in that time.  With ICE cars, they are not really all that different.  You may get a better SatNav or more features, but they are pretty much at the peak as far as base tech goes.  EVs are really just stating to get going.
 
2013-08-20 05:42:23 PM  

wingnut396: Hollie Maea: Gaseous Anomaly: That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.

The batteries don't wear out any time soon.  Leaf batteries should be good for 200K miles plus.

Leases on leafs are popular because they have attractive terms.  I'm sure there are a few people who imagine that the battery issue is important, but most people who are interested in getting a leaf have done enough research to get past the obsolete FUD.

I'm close to leasing an EV or plug-in hybrid, and I'm leaning heavily toward the Leaf at the moment.  The reason for leasing over buying on my part is not FUD on if the batteries will die.  Mine is more an issue of range and what is next.  The technology is changing so rapidly with EVs that I don't want to get one that will seem obsolete a few years down the road.  If fully expect it to work pretty much as designed after 3 years, but what will advances will be made in that time.  With ICE cars, they are not really all that different.  You may get a better SatNav or more features, but they are pretty much at the peak as far as base tech goes.  EVs are really just stating to get going.


See, that's reasonable. It definitely is a rapidly evolving field, and early adopters never get the best deal.  I bought my EV because it was was in a firesale and was a ridiculously good deal.  Thus said, I will likely wait until the Tesla gen 3 to get another one.  By then I think it will start being a pretty damn good deal.

Thus said, with the current leasing deals they have it's hard to go wrong leasing a leaf.  And if they come out with something way better in a couple of years you aren't stuck with it.

As far as range goes, you do have to take it into account, but you'll find it much less of an issue than you imagine, as long as you plug it in every night.
 
2013-08-20 05:57:11 PM  

Driedsponge: Target Builder: As far as funding the electricity, I assumed they are partnering with gas stations that have some sort of dining facilities and who would be more than happy to have folks with a lot of disposable income stop off for half an hour or so in exchange for five bucks of electricity.

That is a good point.  I always figured Tesla paid the locations to install charging stations.  Your point explains why the closest charger to me is in the lower deck of Garden State Plaza.  It's one of the area's largest malls, and I'm sure they love the idea of rich people being forced to spend a couple hours wandering the store in exchange for $10 worth of electricity.


SolarCity is another, less successful Musk startup. so he passes money from the hype machine to the other one.
 
2013-08-20 06:08:16 PM  

legion_of_doo: Driedsponge: Target Builder: As far as funding the electricity, I assumed they are partnering with gas stations that have some sort of dining facilities and who would be more than happy to have folks with a lot of disposable income stop off for half an hour or so in exchange for five bucks of electricity.

That is a good point.  I always figured Tesla paid the locations to install charging stations.  Your point explains why the closest charger to me is in the lower deck of Garden State Plaza.  It's one of the area's largest malls, and I'm sure they love the idea of rich people being forced to spend a couple hours wandering the store in exchange for $10 worth of electricity.

SolarCity is another, less successful Musk startup. so he passes money from the hype machine to the other one.


Actually, SolarCity is a creation of Musk's cousin, with Elon sitting on the board as Chairman. Last I checked, they were the largest installer of solar panels in the United States - with a new goal of a million residential lease customers in ~4 years. It's not exactly a hype machine when you're #1.

 
Looks like they made a fairly large corporate acquisition earlier this week too.
 
2013-08-20 06:08:26 PM  

legion_of_doo: SolarCity is another, less successful Musk startup. so he passes money from the hype machine to the other one.


Were you born stupid, or did you hit your head on a rock as a child?
 
2013-08-20 06:22:27 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


At some stations, the charging stations have a solar canopy which offsets energy use (not sure exactly how much of it). These stations will charge around 150 miles of range in 20 minutes. Not quite gas pumping speed but not too long. Additionally, at some stations they apparently plan to offer a battery swap system- This gives you a fully charged battery in half the time it takes to pump gas into a gas powered car. The solar energy and the cost of the battery swap will offset the free use of the charging stations.

They are going out of their way to make it possible to take these cars on road trips. Even without the charging stations, you can (slowly) charge the car at pretty much any electrical outlet.
 
2013-08-20 06:25:55 PM  
... Additionally:

I think as Tesla expands its infrastructure (aside from the fact that you can charge these vehicles anywhere you can get close enough to an electrical outlet) the probability significantly goes up of them producing a more economical vehicle model. The more infrastructure there is, the easier it will be for them to sell the car on somebody (knowing they can take the car anywhere). The easier it is for them to sell the car, the faster this technology will improve in quality and cost and trickle down to the masses.
 
2013-08-20 06:29:42 PM  

Explodo: I know I'm in the minority on this opinion, but I hate all those electric screens in cars


I agree.

As far as the rest of your posts go, well, it sounds like there aren't many new cars these days that are what you want. The days of ordinary guys being able to work on a car are coming to an end.
 
2013-08-20 06:38:13 PM  

Krieghund: As far as the rest of your posts go, well, it sounds like there aren't many new cars these days that are what you want. The days of ordinary guys being able to work on a car are coming to an end.


Pretty much.  Ironically, one of your better options is an electric car conversion.  There is a really great online community, the systems are much simpler to work on, and you can pretty much customize the car to however you want as long as you have a bit of money to play with.

I'm working on an Opel GT conversion myself (on hold due to job uncertainties, but there's no hurry...it's fun to play with).
 
2013-08-20 06:49:26 PM  

Massively Multiplayer Addict: ... Additionally:

I think as Tesla expands its infrastructure (aside from the fact that you can charge these vehicles anywhere you can get close enough to an electrical outlet) the probability significantly goes up of them producing a more economical vehicle model. The more infrastructure there is, the easier it will be for them to sell the car on somebody (knowing they can take the car anywhere). The easier it is for them to sell the car, the faster this technology will improve in quality and cost and trickle down to the masses.


Also - if they corner the market on the infrastructure and have their charging system patented they will be in a very good position if competitors enter their part of the market.
 
2013-08-20 06:51:06 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Also - if they corner the market on the infrastructure and have their charging system patented they will be in a very good position if competitors enter their part of the market.


Especially since everyone else is gearing up for a good ol' standards war.
 
2013-08-20 06:58:05 PM  

Krieghund: I agree.

As far as the rest of your posts go, well, it sounds like there aren't many new cars these days that are what you want. The days of ordinary guys being able to work on a car are coming to an end.


I disagree. It's just that the skillsets are changing. Instead of rebuilding a carburator or regapping points, an electric car mechanic/tinkerer will be reflashing the ECU and measuring cell voltage from the battery pack.

The major limits electric cars are the longevity of the chemistry of the battery w/ rapid charges/discharges, amperage capability of the control systems, and proper cooling of the electric motor. The hot-rodders of the future will have background in electronics, a laptop and a multimeter as their main tools. Plus when you work on an electric car, it's almost an entirely grease and oil-free job, which is nice.

Here's a rad homebuilt electric datsun that does the quarter mile in 10.5 seconds.
201 mph in 7 seconds (motorcycle)
Electric world speed record, June 2013 (car)

/ASE certified automotive electrician
//restores classic cars and motorcycles
///drives an electric car as my daily ride
 
2013-08-20 07:33:04 PM  

MrSteve007: Krieghund: I agree.

As far as the rest of your posts go, well, it sounds like there aren't many new cars these days that are what you want. The days of ordinary guys being able to work on a car are coming to an end.

I disagree. It's just that the skillsets are changing. Instead of rebuilding a carburator or regapping points, an electric car mechanic/tinkerer will be reflashing the ECU and measuring cell voltage from the battery pack.

The major limits electric cars are the longevity of the chemistry of the battery w/ rapid charges/discharges, amperage capability of the control systems, and proper cooling of the electric motor. The hot-rodders of the future will have background in electronics, a laptop and a multimeter as their main tools. Plus when you work on an electric car, it's almost an entirely grease and oil-free job, which is nice.

Here's a rad homebuilt electric datsun that does the quarter mile in 10.5 seconds.
201 mph in 7 seconds (motorcycle)
Electric world speed record, June 2013 (car)

/ASE certified automotive electrician
//restores classic cars and motorcycles
///drives an electric car as my daily ride


Christ, I hope you're not using SLA's then (or AGM). What type of batteries are in your car/truck? What controller are you using. Zilla or Alltrax or Curtis or? Fill us in on the type of motor (AC, DC and what voltage)

Not trolling. I built my own electric motorcycle and I'm a lightning head myself.
 
2013-08-20 07:41:45 PM  

Massively Multiplayer Addict: ... Additionally:

I think as Tesla expands its infrastructure (aside from the fact that you can charge these vehicles anywhere you can get close enough to an electrical outlet) the probability significantly goes up of them producing a more economical vehicle model. The more infrastructure there is, the easier it will be for them to sell the car on somebody (knowing they can take the car anywhere). The easier it is for them to sell the car, the faster this technology will improve in quality and cost and trickle down to the masses.


This is not a repeat from 1919.
 
2013-08-20 07:54:36 PM  

wingnut396: Hollie Maea: Gaseous Anomaly: That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.

The batteries don't wear out any time soon.  Leaf batteries should be good for 200K miles plus.

Leases on leafs are popular because they have attractive terms.  I'm sure there are a few people who imagine that the battery issue is important, but most people who are interested in getting a leaf have done enough research to get past the obsolete FUD.

I'm close to leasing an EV or plug-in hybrid, and I'm leaning heavily toward the Leaf at the moment.  The reason for leasing over buying on my part is not FUD on if the batteries will die.  Mine is more an issue of range and what is next.  The technology is changing so rapidly with EVs that I don't want to get one that will seem obsolete a few years down the road.  If fully expect it to work pretty much as designed after 3 years, but what will advances will be made in that time.  With ICE cars, they are not really all that different.  You may get a better SatNav or more features, but they are pretty much at the peak as far as base tech goes.  EVs are really just stating to get going.


This is exactly why I ended up leasing my Leaf. The research (and personal experience) shows that battery degradation on these simply isn't a n issue, but I fully expect the 2015 Leaf to have more range and less charging time than the 2013 I have, which is exactly what happened when moving from the 2011 to the 2013.
 
2013-08-20 08:02:37 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Christ, I hope you're not using SLA's then (or AGM). What type of batteries are in your car/truck? What controller are you using. Zilla or Alltrax or Curtis or? Fill us in on the type of motor (AC, DC and what voltage)

Not trolling. I built my own electric motorcycle and I'm a lightning head myself.


Notice I didn't say anything about working or building an electric car myself - simply owning one (a Nissan Leaf) & rebuilding old cars (I have a pair of '48 Willys, '52 Dodge truck, '64 BSA Victor, '65 Mustang fastback, & '69 Triumph T100C). Although once I finish the '48 restoration, my parts mule '48 Willy truck would be fun with an electric motor.

I haven't given too much thought on the project, but I think it would be fun to have something in the 40 hp range (like the electric boat Elco EP-4000 motor), inplace of the 4cyl "go-devil" L-134, using the stock drivetrain. 9, 12v batteries would do the job. Unfortunately that motor costs an arm and a leg.

If I were going to build one, I'd use the A123 batteries . . . which would have been a lot easier before they went out of business. If I remember correctly, they're the ones most of the homebuilt drag cars & bikes used.
 
2013-08-20 08:51:52 PM  

MrSteve007: If I were going to build one, I'd use the A123 batteries . . . which would have been a lot easier before they went out of business. If I remember correctly, they're the ones most of the homebuilt drag cars & bikes used.


The latest series of CALBs are pretty good.  They actually have nearly as much power density as the A123s (they can burst 10C) and seem to have very good quality control.  They are Chinese, but nearly all of them are now that you can't get A123s.  They are probably your best bet for most conversions...a 25kwh pack like the leaf has could burst over 200kw when you take into account voltage sag.
If you just want to make a drag racer, though, your best bet is to go with Lithium Polymer...the Dow Kokam's that the White Zombie uses can do around 30C.  Just have to treat them very carefully as they CAN catch on fire.
 
2013-08-20 09:17:39 PM  

Inquisitive Inquisitor: My boss drives one and I see several on my commute to work.  On any given day I'll see three or four.  I also live right between the Tesla dealership and the Tesla service center.  Draw what conclusions you wish.


Yeah, it's an amazing PR coup that the Oil Industry has conditioned the right to regard any challenge to is as an assault on liberty.
 
2013-08-21 12:36:03 AM  

Hollie Maea: legion_of_doo: SolarCity is another, less successful Musk startup. so he passes money from the hype machine to the other one.

Were you born stupid, or did you hit your head on a rock as a child?


Elon still won't sleep with you.
 
2013-08-21 12:36:33 AM  

wingnut396: Hollie Maea: Gaseous Anomaly: That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.

The batteries don't wear out any time soon.  Leaf batteries should be good for 200K miles plus.

Leases on leafs are popular because they have attractive terms.  I'm sure there are a few people who imagine that the battery issue is important, but most people who are interested in getting a leaf have done enough research to get past the obsolete FUD.

I'm close to leasing an EV or plug-in hybrid, and I'm leaning heavily toward the Leaf at the moment.  The reason for leasing over buying on my part is not FUD on if the batteries will die.  Mine is more an issue of range and what is next.  The technology is changing so rapidly with EVs that I don't want to get one that will seem obsolete a few years down the road.  If fully expect it to work pretty much as designed after 3 years, but what will advances will be made in that time.  With ICE cars, they are not really all that different.  You may get a better SatNav or more features, but they are pretty much at the peak as far as base tech goes.  EVs are really just stating to get going.

 
2013-08-21 12:46:15 AM  
Sorry, I'm having trouble commenting ATM.

I initially leased a Nissan Leaf. I loved that car. Nissan made a great EV. After a few weeks, the dealership reclaimed the car because the bank wouldn't honor the lease agreement because the car was a demo (apparently the dealership had already realized the tax credits or some such. I dunno, it never made sense to me.). Anyway I was pretty crushed. They promised to get me a new car, but they were pretty scarce at the time here in ABQ. After a few weeks I lost confidence in the dealer and strolled onto a Ford lot and leased a Ford Focus Electric.

I. Love. This. Car.

My buddy leased a Leaf shortly after, but I'm so happy I ended up with the Focus Electric. It's seriously a nice car. I had no idea that Ford made an all electric. They don't advertise very well IMO.

Anyway, I have a 240V 30A GE EVSE in my garage for charging at home. I use the portable level 1 EVSE that comes with the car to charge off a standard 110V outlet at work. My car is fully charged before the end of the work day from the 110V outlet.

My company is working on installing Level 2 EVSEs at work for me and my buddy and to encourage others to go electric.

We even joined the Workplace Charging Vhallenge
 
2013-08-21 12:49:54 AM  
Just FYI: the things you plug the car into aren't chargers. The charger is built into the car. The plug is an Electric Vehicle Service Equipment. They're basically glorified extension cords with built in disconnects.

Some are more advanced, with data logging capabilities, but they're not chargers.

Clipper Creek makes some great EVSEs. I wish I'd bought mine from them instead of GE, but Lowes was having a sale....
 
2013-08-21 02:32:25 AM  

Geotpf: It's apparently a very nice car (compared with other, gas powered, luxury automobiles).  Consumer Reports gave it a road test score of 99 out of 100, for instance.  Of course, you still can't really go on a road trip with it (although they sure are trying to set up charging stations everywhere), but, frankly, 99% of the time you are just going to be driving around town, and it's fine for that.


Which is also unprecedented.
 
2013-08-21 02:44:33 AM  

Explodo: I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.


How's that 386 running Windows 3.1 working out for you?

But in all seriousness, the more success Telsa has, the cheaper batteries will become. Replacing the whole pack may cost $30k today, but in 7 years it could be $10k or $5k. And let's face it, people who can afford this car are likely to not care as much about resale value, as they'll probably replace it far before the batteries start running low.

Let the rich be Tesla's guinea pigs. The tech will improve, and by the time Tesla is making a competitor to the Nissan Leaf, we could have swappable batteries and battery stations. (That seems to me a more practical idea than trying to make longer-lasting, better-range batteries.)
 
2013-08-21 05:30:52 AM  

SkittlesAreYum: Explodo: Unless you're leasing it, or Tesla is going to replace the battery pack for free, it's a car with near 0 resale value due to the fact that once that battery stops putting out as much power it'll cost a fortune to replace the battery pack...at least that's how they've all been so far.

Via the Tesla forum, replacement battery packs cost $30,000, which is nearly half the price of the car.  They also say the batteries are designed to last 10 years.  Well, I'll check in on that in 10 years and see how everyone is doing.  I've never had rechargeable batteries that didn't lose a significant amount of output in considerably less time.  Suddenly your 240 mile range is a 40 mile range and you can plunk down thirty grand to fix it or just buy another one.  Pfft.  I have, however, never dealt with such high-end batteries.  As I said, we'll see.

I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.

When I think of things that keep their resale value, don't require constant maintenance, and run essentially forever, I think of automobiles.


Like 80s-90s model Corollas. We had one until a few years ago when a construction truck cut a tight corner and ran over it (everyone was unhurt except the car)
 
2013-08-21 07:21:06 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Explodo: I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.

How's that 386 running Windows 3.1 working out for you?

But in all seriousness, the more success Telsa has, the cheaper batteries will become. Replacing the whole pack may cost $30k today, but in 7 years it could be $10k or $5k. And let's face it, people who can afford this car are likely to not care as much about resale value, as they'll probably replace it far before the batteries start running low.

Let the rich be Tesla's guinea pigs. The tech will improve, and by the time Tesla is making a competitor to the Nissan Leaf, we could have swappable batteries and battery stations. (That seems to me a more practical idea than trying to make longer-lasting, better-range batteries.)


Apparently.. a battery swap only costs about $80 and can be done in around 2 minutes... Wow.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/06/tesla-battery-swap/
 
2013-08-21 07:45:04 AM  

SlothB77:

The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama.  No skepticism.  No criticism.  Just blind support.  Tesla says they got the highest score ever.  What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true.  Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.

They have an agenda - global warming, electronic-powered cars, green energy.  They are just using Tesla to advance that agenda.  If Tesla and Musk were anti-gay marriage christian conservatives, the media would be complaining 'oh, the cars are too expensive.  They are just one more advantage the super rich has over everyone.  They are only selling a small, insignificant number.  They don't employ that many people because they use robots instead - it could be bad for jobs and unemployment if they get big.'  and any other criticisms they can find.  It is all very petty and transparent.




WTF is this herpaderp this guy keeps spewing? The media was at Tesla's throat for years, it wasn't until Tesla kept delivering on their promises time and time again that the media finally turned around this year and jumped on board. Its hard NOT to respect what they're accomplishing... Get over it.
 
2013-08-21 11:25:07 AM  
These kinds of threads are my favorite. I like hearing about people's experiments and experiences with electric cars. Thanks!
 
2013-08-21 12:37:34 PM  

lewismarktwo: 100 Watt Walrus: Explodo: I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.

How's that 386 running Windows 3.1 working out for you?

But in all seriousness, the more success Telsa has, the cheaper batteries will become. Replacing the whole pack may cost $30k today, but in 7 years it could be $10k or $5k. And let's face it, people who can afford this car are likely to not care as much about resale value, as they'll probably replace it far before the batteries start running low.

Let the rich be Tesla's guinea pigs. The tech will improve, and by the time Tesla is making a competitor to the Nissan Leaf, we could have swappable batteries and battery stations. (That seems to me a more practical idea than trying to make longer-lasting, better-range batteries.)

Apparently.. a battery swap only costs about $80 and can be done in around 2 minutes... Wow.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/06/tesla-battery-swap/


And there you have it. Just bring the price down to roughly the price of a tank of gas, and we're off and running.
 
2013-08-21 01:21:13 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: Geotpf: It's apparently a very nice car (compared with other, gas powered, luxury automobiles).  Consumer Reports gave it a road test score of 99 out of 100, for instance.  Of course, you still can't really go on a road trip with it (although they sure are trying to set up charging stations everywhere), but, frankly, 99% of the time you are just going to be driving around town, and it's fine for that.

Which is also unprecedented.


Not quite.  In the entire history of Consumer Reports, the Model S is the second car to ever get such a high score.  I think the first car to get that score was some older Lexus.

Still, it's pretty amazing.
 
Displayed 34 of 184 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report