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(Slate)   Tesla Model S receives highest safety rating in American history   (slate.com) divider line 184
    More: Spiffy, Model S, Americans, classification society, feedback loops, electric cars  
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4240 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Aug 2013 at 10:08 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



184 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-20 12:54:26 PM  

Hollie Maea: There are like maybe 2 volvos in the world that have lasted that long.


And Explodo owns one of them.
 
2013-08-20 12:55:48 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Yeah. It's about time those poor, downtrodden, demonized oil companies got their due for all of the great work they fund. Nobody ever gives the oil companies any credit at all, but when there's an environmental disaster, they pony up more cash than anybody. And what do they get in return? Scorn and derision from hippies and a bunch of whining about "clean air" and "global warming". Those billions in tax subsidies are small consolation and richly deserved.

Oil companies - America's real heros


The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama.  No skepticism.  No criticism.  Just blind support.  Tesla says they got the highest score ever.  What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true.  Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.

They have an agenda - global warming, electronic-powered cars, green energy.  They are just using Tesla to advance that agenda.  If Tesla and Musk were anti-gay marriage christian conservatives, the media would be complaining 'oh, the cars are too expensive.  They are just one more advantage the super rich has over everyone.  They are only selling a small, insignificant number.  They don't employ that many people because they use robots instead - it could be bad for jobs and unemployment if they get big.'  and any other criticisms they can find.  It is all very petty and transparent.
 
2013-08-20 12:57:41 PM  

tricycleracer: Hollie Maea: There are like maybe 2 volvos in the world that have lasted that long.

And Explodo owns one of them.


Running on an Arc reactor powered by his own dumbassery.

/It's a word now.
 
2013-08-20 12:59:18 PM  
I like the Tesla, the one improvement I would make on it would be to have a solar panel on the hood or roof. I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.
 
2013-08-20 01:02:48 PM  

SirTanon: Tricky Chicken: SirTanon: Voiceofreason01: It's such a pretty car and the photo they pick is a closeup of the badge?

You are correct.  Allow me to set things right.

[www.autoweek.com image 850x510]

SCHWING!!

I've never seen a DB9 in person, but from what they shoewd on Top Gear, aren't they similar?

Or am I once again completely wrong.

And where can I see a DB9 in person? Around DC

You're right.. they do look _somewhat_ similar.  The DB9 is actually just about my favorite car - period.  So let's have a look.

Tesla Model S:
[oi40.tinypic.com image 640x425]

Aston Martin DB9:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 550x367]

...yeah, one is reminiscent of the other, but seeing them side-by-side, not really as close as I thought.  It's the front grill that does it.

Still, both beautiful cars.


I'll be in my bunk.
 
2013-08-20 01:07:42 PM  

SlothB77: The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama. No skepticism. No criticism. Just blind support. Tesla says they got the highest score ever. What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true. Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.

They have an agenda - global warming, electronic-powered cars, green energy. They are just using Tesla to advance that agenda. If Tesla and Musk were anti-gay marriage christian conservatives, the media would be complaining 'oh, the cars are too expensive. They are just one more advantage the super rich has over everyone. They are only selling a small, insignificant number. They don't employ that many people because they use robots instead - it could be bad for jobs and unemployment if they get big.' and any other criticisms they can find. It is all very petty and transparent.


images.sodahead.com
 
2013-08-20 01:09:34 PM  

groppet: I like the Tesla, the one improvement I would make on it would be to have a solar panel on the hood or roof. I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


The solar roof on the Fisker Karma didn't do a whole heck of a lot.  I guess it's better than nothing, though.
 
2013-08-20 01:10:07 PM  

groppet: know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Nope. Fisker did that on the Karma. It was only good for about 4-5 miles a week if it was bright and sunny the whole time.
 
2013-08-20 01:11:02 PM  

wingnut396: Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?

You do it like a drug dealer and get the people hooked first.  Or, they know that there is little infrastructure for the vehicles they are trying to sell.  So build it out so you can sell your cars in more locations.  Once there is large acceptance and penetration, you can start charging or sell off the stations.  There will likely be more competition for charging stations as more and more EVs are on the road.


But if there is a charging station in your town, you get free electrons. The map on their site shows that by next year they will be all over the place. And the 2015 map looks like the US has measles.
 
2013-08-20 01:11:19 PM  
Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing? As someone who lives in an area prone to flash floods, I'm going to pass.
 
2013-08-20 01:12:57 PM  

groppet: I like the Tesla, the one improvement I would make on it would be to have a solar panel on the hood or roof. I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Meh, with the area you've got to work with you'll never get more than 200 Watt/hours of charging potential, and that's with nice clear sunny days. Too much delicate silicon and weird wiring to make it workable, anyway. A covered parking area with solar panels feeding a charging station, that's more like it.
 
2013-08-20 01:13:24 PM  

SlothB77: Uranus Is Huge!: Yeah. It's about time those poor, downtrodden, demonized oil companies got their due for all of the great work they fund. Nobody ever gives the oil companies any credit at all, but when there's an environmental disaster, they pony up more cash than anybody. And what do they get in return? Scorn and derision from hippies and a bunch of whining about "clean air" and "global warming". Those billions in tax subsidies are small consolation and richly deserved.

Oil companies - America's real heros

The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama.  No skepticism.  No criticism.  Just blind support.  Tesla says they got the highest score ever.  What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true.  Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.

They have an agenda - global warming, electronic-powered cars, green energy.  They are just using Tesla to advance that agenda.  If Tesla and Musk were anti-gay marriage christian conservatives, the media would be complaining 'oh, the cars are too expensive.  They are just one more advantage the super rich has over everyone.  They are only selling a small, insignificant number.  They don't employ that many people because they use robots instead - it could be bad for jobs and unemployment if they get big.'  and any other criticisms they can find.  It is all very petty and transparent.


How do you bare the near constant persecution...

...that occurs almost entirely in your imagination?
 
2013-08-20 01:18:19 PM  
whar royalties?  Wharr????

www.bielek-debunked.com
 
2013-08-20 01:20:25 PM  

plcow: clkeagle: The Tesla S may be regarded as one of the most important cars in history in a few decades - the Model T of the modern electric.

It's the first electric to gain any kind of mainstream acceptance, and will only fuel the level consumer demand and refinements necessary to bring down manufacturing costs.

/who am I kidding... the oil companies will squish it in a year or two
//and salt the earth

I work at a major oil company and there are several in the parking lot, and a few I know of who are on waitlist.  Not sure why people think that oil companies care about these.  Does everything HAVE to have a bad guy?


Given how important oil is to other industries, and has less public visibility than gasoline prices, I'd be happy as hell to get rid of the low commodity pricing of my product to the general public.  Delivering product to industrial users, tailored to specific requirements (instead of a generic one) where that customer is locked in on a long term contract with me?  Holy hell would I prefer that as an oil company.

But let's create a market where we just burn the stuff for as low a price as possible.  That would be better!
 
2013-08-20 01:23:00 PM  

SlothB77: If Tesla and Musk were anti-gay marriage christian conservatives, the media would be complaining 'oh, the cars are too expensive.They are just one more advantage the super rich has over everyone. They are only selling a small, insignificant number. They don't employ that many people because they use robots instead - it could be bad for jobs and unemployment if they get big.'

 

That's because it makes for good news when stupid, hateful assholes aren't succeeding in the market. People like social justice.
 
2013-08-20 01:23:42 PM  
ws-na.amazon-adsystem.com
The Tesla Connection?
 
2013-08-20 01:25:12 PM  

groppet: I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.


Actually it wouldn't really help much at all.

The Tesla Model S has an 85kwh battery pack.  But state of the art solar panels put out no more than .2kw per square meter. With the standard 5 hours of equivalent peak hours of sun per day, you are talking only 1kwh per day for a 1 square meter panel which is about as big as you could put on the roof.  The Model S uses about 0.3kwh per mile, so your solar panel would only get you an extra three miles of range per day.
The super chargers run at 120kw, so it would only take 30 seconds for them to match your solar panel's daily output.
 
2013-08-20 01:28:13 PM  

Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing?


No, they don't.

On the other hand, your car will explode if you drop a lit cigarette into the gas tank.
 
2013-08-20 01:35:16 PM  

SlothB77: The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama.  No skepticism.  No criticism.  Just blind support.  Tesla says they got the highest score ever.  What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true.  Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.


The NHTSA scores and results are available online.  It's not hard to check them against the results of other automobiles and having briefly done so nothing really jumped out as being patently false.  Hell, the fact that the Model S broke the machine used to administer the roof crush would lend credence to their claims of superior safety.

Of course, I just exerted far more effort in looking into this issue than you yourself did when you started throwing around baseless accusations of collusion and bias.  All you have presented thus far is a personal assumption without factual basis which only serves to demonstrate your own personal bias.
 
2013-08-20 01:37:11 PM  
Everyone talks as if the Model S is the be-all, end-all for Tesla.  The ultimate goal is to have a $30k sedan in the market before the end of this decade.  What's the point of building charging stations if the cars aren't on the road to use them?

The only things that could possibly stop slow down Tesla are: the Big Three lobby, the Auto Sales lobby, the Oil Lobby, and the UAW.

What's not to like about the future of Tesla?  They're an American manufacturer, they've paid back their government loan EARLY, they sell direct to the consumer, they have one of the most advanced assembly lines ever constructed, and - oh yeah - they happen to make safe, reliable cars that hit their benchmarks.
 
2013-08-20 01:40:14 PM  
What, no love for the Coil Voltic?

images.wikia.com
 
2013-08-20 01:45:28 PM  

Doc Daneeka: The one Model S I did see was when I happened to be driving through a residential neighborhood in a very upscale town in Westchester.

I think it's still mostly a toy for the rich at this point.


I'm pretty sure I wouldn't know one if I saw it on the road.  As for toy for the rich...well, the first model used a Lotus body, so, yeah.  Electric cars are frequently accused of being dorky, so Tesla took a different approach.

BTW, their earlier sportscar model had a flat torque vs. RPM curve.  Wanna drag?
 
2013-08-20 01:48:11 PM  
None of what is being discussed mattersThe big questions is:
Do you still call it a gas pedal?
 
2013-08-20 01:58:15 PM  

ikanreed: Do you still call it a gas pedal?


They're phasing out those terms and calling them the deceleratrix and velocitator.
 
2013-08-20 02:01:01 PM  

Teaser: What, no love for the Coil Voltic?

[images.wikia.com image 795x536]


Is that a thing?
 
2013-08-20 02:01:35 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


The supercharger stations are covered with solar panels.  Since the chargers will be unoccupied more often than not (just like the pumps at a typical gas station), Tesla expects to put more energy into the grid from the solar panels than they take out by charging electric cars, making it possible to offer free charging to Tesla owners.
 
2013-08-20 02:15:31 PM  

anfrind: Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?

The supercharger stations are covered with solar panels.  Since the chargers will be unoccupied more often than not (just like the pumps at a typical gas station), Tesla expects to put more energy into the grid from the solar panels than they take out by charging electric cars, making it possible to offer free charging to Tesla owners.


and

Hollie Maea: groppet: I know it would proabably look ugly but it would increase range and proabably cut down on charging.

Actually it wouldn't really help much at all.

The Tesla Model S has an 85kwh battery pack.  But state of the art solar panels put out no more than .2kw per square meter. With the standard 5 hours of equivalent peak hours of sun per day, you are talking only 1kwh per day for a 1 square meter panel which is about as big as you could put on the roof.  The Model S uses about 0.3kwh per mile, so your solar panel would only get you an extra three miles of range per day.
The super chargers run at 120kw, so it would only take 30 seconds for them to match your solar panel's daily output.


The maths don't work out.  Unless those solar panels are huge.  I think Mr Burns tried something similar.
 
2013-08-20 02:15:53 PM  

Hollie Maea: If you do the math, that's over 600,000 miles.  There are like maybe 2 volvos in the world that have lasted that long.


I dunno.  Volvo is currently running ads featuring the guy who bought a Volvo in 1966 and has put three million miles on it since then.
 
2013-08-20 02:29:52 PM  

Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing?


Yea, just like when you accidentally put your cellphone through the wash it explodes.

Maybe lay off the far-right anti-electric bullshiat, eh?
 
2013-08-20 02:30:55 PM  

Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing? As someone who lives in an area prone to flash floods, I'm going to pass.


Forgetting that the car might get wet was a major oversight. One can only hope they may be able to engineer their way out of that, using  - I dunno - some sort of water-proof material, if science progresses that far.
 
2013-08-20 02:38:05 PM  

Erik_Emune: Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing? As someone who lives in an area prone to flash floods, I'm going to pass.

Forgetting that the car might get wet was a major oversight. One can only hope they may be able to engineer their way out of that, using  - I dunno - some sort of water-proof material, if science progresses that far.


What would we do without the Fark Armchair Corps of Engineers to save us?
 
2013-08-20 02:47:40 PM  
We could probably get better access to the solar panels at night.
 
2013-08-20 02:53:07 PM  

Tricky Chicken: And the 2015 map looks like the US has measles.


Farking anti-vaccination nutjobs. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that happens. They'll then try to cure it with cinnamon and honey because they saw it on Facebook.
 
2013-08-20 03:02:05 PM  

anfrind: Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?

The supercharger stations are covered with solar panels.  Since the chargers will be unoccupied more often than not (just like the pumps at a typical gas station), Tesla expects to put more energy into the grid from the solar panels than they take out by charging electric cars, making it possible to offer free charging to Tesla owners.


Currently they are targeted squarely at the luxury market, but they have said repeatedly that they would like to get to building a car in the $30k price range.  I would expect that once they build that car, there's going to be a few currently standard features that get moved into the 'option' category.  Free public charging may be one of them.
 
2013-08-20 03:05:51 PM  

Driedsponge: there's going to be a few currently standard features that get moved into the 'option' category.  Free public charging may be one of them.


In fact, Supercharging is "optional" on the 60 kWh Tesla S.  It's only free on the 85 kWh models.
 
2013-08-20 03:31:32 PM  

Hollie Maea: Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing?

No, they don't.

On the other hand, your car will explode if you drop a lit cigarette into the gas tank.


It might actually go out if the vapor wasn't at the right ratio.  Remember you ignite the vapor, not the liquid.
 
2013-08-20 03:42:31 PM  

JK47: SlothB77: The media treats Tesla just like it treats Obama.  No skepticism.  No criticism.  Just blind support.  Tesla says they got the highest score ever.  What media used to do was investigate that claim, verify it was true.  Now, they just blindly parrot the company's line.

The NHTSA scores and results are available online.  It's not hard to check them against the results of other automobiles and having briefly done so nothing really jumped out as being patently false.  Hell, the fact that the Model S broke the machine used to administer the roof crush would lend credence to their claims of superior safety.

Of course, I just exerted far more effort in looking into this issue than you yourself did when you started throwing around baseless accusations of collusion and bias.  All you have presented thus far is a personal assumption without factual basis which only serves to demonstrate your own personal bias.



This.

Here's an explanation.

tl;dr: The Tesla scored 5/5 in every category and subcategory
 
2013-08-20 03:46:57 PM  

Kimpak: Tricky Chicken: Wow, no pics yet? and this is one of the sexiest cars out there today.

[pluginchicagometro.org image 850x531]


Uh, I'll be in my bunk garage.
 
2013-08-20 03:49:33 PM  

SirTanon: Voiceofreason01: It's such a pretty car and the photo they pick is a closeup of the badge?

You are correct.  Allow me to set things right.

[www.autoweek.com image 850x510]


/channels his inner Borat...

NICE~!
 
2013-08-20 04:06:43 PM  

JK47: The NHTSA scores and results are available online. It's not hard to check them against the results of other automobiles and having briefly done so nothing really jumped out as being patently false. Hell, the fact that the Model S broke the machine used to administer the roof crush would lend credence to their claims of superior safety.

Of course, I just exerted far more effort in looking into this issue than you yourself did when you started throwing around baseless accusations of collusion and bias. All you have presented thus far is a personal assumption without factual basis which only serves to demonstrate your own personal bias.


Have they developed new safety tests for electronic cars, for hazards unique only to electronic cars, such batteries that explode or catch on fire, which is what grounded the Boeing 787?
 
2013-08-20 04:10:43 PM  

Tricky Chicken: The maths don't work out.  Unless those solar panels are huge.  I think Mr Burns tried something similar.


On a car, you can't put much more than a square meter of solar panels.

On a carport, which essentially what is over the super chargers, you can put many tens of square meters.
 
2013-08-20 04:11:39 PM  

Geotpf: Hollie Maea: If you do the math, that's over 600,000 miles.  There are like maybe 2 volvos in the world that have lasted that long.

I dunno.  Volvo is currently running ads featuring the guy who bought a Volvo in 1966 and has put three million miles on it since then.


There's one.

My assumption is that there is one more.  Maybe there isn't.
 
2013-08-20 04:16:32 PM  

SlothB77: Have they developed new safety tests for electronic cars, for hazards unique only to electronic cars, such batteries that explode or catch on fire, which is what grounded the Boeing 787?


Yes, but they aren't new.  Boeing used a dangerous chemistry and a faulty BMS.  That's what happens when you consider a subsystem to be an afterthought and go for the cheapest possible solution.
 
2013-08-20 04:17:01 PM  
img.fark.net

Hybrid
images.huffingtonpost.com
 
2013-08-20 04:21:23 PM  

Yes please: Don't they literally explode if water gets into the battery casing?


No. Check first-responder guides; the recommended way to put out a Li-Ion battery on fire is hosing it down with water. (The key being to dissipate heat to stop thermal runaway). I assume, if they exploded on contact with water, this would not be the recommended method.
 
2013-08-20 04:21:31 PM  

JerseyTim: Doc Daneeka: drewogatory: JerseyTim: It's hard to be unsafe when you can't go anywhere because your battery is out, amirite?!?!

I see multiple Teslas every day now on my commute, so someone is driving them.

I've only seen one out in the wild so far, and I live in the fairly liberal NYC metro area.

Only seen a couple of Volts for that matter.

There are, however, a shiatload of Priuses.

Now that I think about it, I haven't seen one in the wild. My commute through the Lincoln Tunnel usually involves a shiatton luxury automobiles, multiple Porsches and the occasional Maserati and Ferrari.  I have seen a bunch of Volts lately.

/wants the Model X


I see a ton of them in Houston, which is saying something considering our reputation
 
2013-08-20 04:22:31 PM  

Hollie Maea: Tricky Chicken: The maths don't work out.  Unless those solar panels are huge.  I think Mr Burns tried something similar.

On a car, you can't put much more than a square meter of solar panels.

On a carport, which essentially what is over the super chargers, you can put many tens of square meters.


I should point out that even with the large area, the solar panels will not produce enough energy for ALL of the charging.
On their supercharger page they have a picture of one of their stations.  It has 100 standard sized panels on it.  Those panels are probably 265 watts each, or close to it.  With 5 hours of peak sun, that would produce about 130kwh per day.  Not a huge amount of energy but enough for about two charges to 80 percent.

They give away the supercharging because electricity is cheap.
 
2013-08-20 04:25:29 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


Even if you have to pay for the juice, it's still cheaper.

Your electric rates may vary, but here in Raleigh we have 10.2 cents/kWh in summer without time-of-use billing (I hear the national average is 11ish cents). At these rates my Leaf gets about 30 miles to the dollar. With time-of-use billing and charging at night, it'd be even cheaper.

/after $30K for the car and $2K for an installed station, admittedly
 
2013-08-20 04:28:58 PM  

Explodo: I prefer to buy things that I can plan to keep indefinitely without having to pay for them again.


That's why leasing is popular for EVs these days; by the time the battery wears out it's somebody else's problem.
 
2013-08-20 04:41:30 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Holy Crap!  The Tesla website says they have "FREE" charging stations and they are putting them up all around the country.  How the heck can this work? Even if it costs more at first, if you never have to pay to fuel (charge) it, wouldn't this be the lowest cost option over time?


The charging stations strategically located on highways to allow longer distance road trips, so you're not confined to journeys less than ~100 miles from your home. Most of them are unlikely to be convenient to stop by for free electricity on the way to work.

As far as funding the electricity, I assumed they are partnering with gas stations that have some sort of dining facilities and who would be more than happy to have folks with a lot of disposable income stop off for half an hour or so in exchange for five bucks of electricity.
 
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