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(Opposing Views)   Remember that firefighter-slash-pastor who was introduced to Mr. Stun Gun after waving to his friendly neighborhood cops? Well, authorities investigated the incident and found no wrongdoing by the police involved   (opposingviews.com) divider line 106
    More: Followup, Nick Clegg, attitude change, misconduct, firefighters, traffic stops, Police Chief Billy Bolin  
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9586 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2013 at 11:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



106 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-20 12:27:45 PM  

BattleFrenchie28: wxboy: So does the "/" key not work on Submitter's keyboard?

You're misreading the headline, he's part of a Guns and Roses cover band.


Well technically its a Village People themed Guns and Roses cover band.  You should hear their rendition of Welcome to the YMCA.  Fantastic.
 
2013-08-20 12:28:11 PM  

oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beats me massa."


FTFY

/you sounded too white
 
2013-08-20 12:31:02 PM  
Firethorn ,

I like your thesis on the trinity of union, legal and government work, it is one of the more rational explanations I have heard explaining the current insanity.

It's not that an officer with a big binder of disciplinary infractions can't be a good officer on the whole, but it means that a lot more attention needs to be paid to him to make sure he is a good officer - and that he should be cut loose if he isn't.

Yeah, like that will happen without some changes:
Link

You have ideas, doctors work in hospitals, but still require malpractice insurance so they are careful and if they f**k up one too many time game over.

How about the same for cops, that way taxpayers wouldn't be subsidising stupid arrogant and violent cops behavior.
 
2013-08-20 12:34:12 PM  

AngryDragon: oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beat me massa."

Based on the show "Cops" I thought it was start running away at top speed, throwing shiat out of your pockets in all directions, screaming "I 'aint done nuthin'!".


also:  Why did you run?  Because you were chasing me!
 
2013-08-20 12:35:54 PM  
There's nobody to root for in this article...
 
2013-08-20 12:36:29 PM  

untaken_name: Cops don't think cops did anything wrong? WHAT?!? That's incredibly shocking, especially after the past 20-30 years of exactly that happening in almost every case of alleged police misconduct. If I promise never to call the police for any reason whatsoever, can I investigate any allegations of wrongdoing on my part instead of them? I promise to put just as much care into my internal investigations as the police do. Honest.


In this specific case, they really didn't do anything wrong.  I came for the outrage, but found only "meh".  Dude broke the law, got pissy for being stopped, tried to talk his way out of a ticket, then whined to the court about how he was treated appropriately for his conduct.

The cop didn't even fire the taser, just pointed it.  The guy on the bike is just an entitled jackass.  I really hope these aren't the values and behaviors he's teaching his youth troop.
 
2013-08-20 12:37:11 PM  

crab66: Being black while blacking the black black.


That's either the most metal thing ever said or it just got it's ass kicked by the pigs
 
2013-08-20 12:37:34 PM  
Just remember, this is the same police department that decided to show off their fance new SWAT tools by dragging a news team along when they raided the wrong house becuase a neighbor had been stealing WiFi to post "threatening messages" online.
 
2013-08-20 12:37:41 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Firethorn ,

I like your thesis on the trinity of union, legal and government work, it is one of the more rational explanations I have heard explaining the current insanity.

It's not that an officer with a big binder of disciplinary infractions can't be a good officer on the whole, but it means that a lot more attention needs to be paid to him to make sure he is a good officer - and that he should be cut loose if he isn't.

Yeah, like that will happen without some changes:
Link

You have ideas, doctors work in hospitals, but still require malpractice insurance so they are careful and if they f**k up one too many time game over.

How about the same for cops, that way taxpayers wouldn't be subsidising stupid arrogant and violent cops behavior.


Malpractice insurance is not cheap and juries seldom if ever admonish police for dickish behavior.
 
2013-08-20 12:37:49 PM  

Sybarite: He looked pretty intimidating.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x290]


But he's not even wearing a hoodie.

/Yeah.  I said it.
 
2013-08-20 12:38:59 PM  
There is literally no penalty for pointing a taser. I must say I agree with that rule in general. If a situation with the potential to a require a taser (or other weapon) forms, police shouldn't have to wait to draw.

None of that excuses police being assholes in this and other situations.
 
2013-08-20 12:47:47 PM  
Kuroshin
The cop didn't even fire the taser, just pointed it.  The guy on the bike is just an entitled jackass.  I really hope these aren't the values and behaviors he's teaching his youth troop.


I am assuming guy is a civic minded superhero whom as a firefighter and a youth pastor who is not really cynical about the direction this country is going in.  So in his mind he gets cut off by cops (note I am not debating the flow of traffic here) so he calls cops out what he sees as their arrogant attitude.

He is nearly tased because he is making calls during the conversation with police, because he apparently knows people.  He does not understand that when talking to police you are less equal then police are and police can do what they want because their lives are on the line during every stop.  Even though he is probably a model citizen, he finally learned that police are more equal then civilians.
 
2013-08-20 12:50:29 PM  
I wouldn't say they got off entirely without punishment. They still have to to live in or near Evansville.
 
2013-08-20 12:50:54 PM  
img1.fark.netimg1.fark.netimg1.fark.net
WHY?
 
2013-08-20 12:51:57 PM  

Kuroshin: In this specific case, they really didn't do anything wrong. I came for the outrage, but found only "meh". Dude broke the law, got pissy for being stopped, tried to talk his way out of a ticket, then whined to the court about how he was treated appropriately for his conduct.


Hmmm. Pulling a taser is appropriate treatment for a traffic ticket now. Don't you DARE talk on your phone while a ticket is being written!
 
2013-08-20 12:53:55 PM  
mcreadyblue,
Malpractice insurance is not cheap and juries seldom if ever admonish police for dickish behavior.


'Malpractice insurance is not cheap', so what? First of all police are not doctors and this would be a new idea. You can't scale one to the other.

And regarding juries admonishing police for dickish behavior, I heard that same argument about 'civian review boards' until someone pointed out many are not really non-police. There has to be a reason for that and all of the layers of the onion has not been peeled back yet.
 
2013-08-20 12:54:43 PM  

Enemabag Jones: To those who say fark is a hate site for cops, true enough.  So is reddit, I don't think slashdot users exactly love them either although that is not their site is about.

Can you show me a non-police website that loves police?

I am interested and would to get your input.

\The funny thing, many police websites put up firewalls up block non-police members.  I wonder why?


I'm a member of a few of them because I got in before they put up the check process and keep a low profile.  You really get a good idea of what makes them tick in those forums.  Massive amounts of US v Them type sentiment and bursting at the seams with confirmation bias.

It's very hard not to out myself.
 
2013-08-20 12:58:19 PM  
IRQ12,
I'm a member of a few of them because I got in before they put up the check process and keep a low profile. You really get a good idea of what makes them tick in those forums. Massive amounts of US v Them type sentiment and bursting at the seams with confirmation bias.
It's very hard not to out myself.


I do what I can with the ones not firewalled, and I so wish I had that access you have.

You may want to consider some choice quotes in fark if it does not kill your access to those sites, please just think about it.

\Maybe you are older and have worked on computer jumper switches?
 
2013-08-20 01:00:06 PM  
Whatever. Slash is more hype than talent.

There is a version of Slash that is a great guitar player however.

He's called Phil X.

/YouTube search his name and you will agree
 
2013-08-20 01:01:26 PM  

oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beat me massa."


You know, I bet police would IMMEDIATELY stop whatever interaction they had with you if you did that in a populated area.  Loudly follwing with a "Oh lawdy lawd!" would help sell it too.
 
2013-08-20 01:01:36 PM  
Super_pope:  He ran a stop sign (ON A BIKE, its not like he was a threat to anyone but his own stupid ass)

Says the guy who's never hit a deer.
 
2013-08-20 01:04:12 PM  
About a decade ago I was driving through Western Indiana, and decided to stop to eat in a small town as it was getting somewhat late. The restaurant I pulled up to had a "whites only" sign on the door. I turned around and left. So nothing about Indiana surprises me.
 
2013-08-20 01:04:19 PM  
This article is a lot more slanted then the previous.

He said he was riding down the street and waved to the police. They then made a direct move to cut him off and stop him. It was at this time when they initially stopped him that they accused him of flipping them off. I find it interesting that was left out of this retelling. He says he waved at them because he knows most of the police through his work as a fireman. The guy who jumped out of the car and got aggressive he didn't know. He then tried to call the chief who he personally knows.

Having seen police officers react EXACTLY how the guy in the article describes I would be willing to bet that he is telling the truth. They see a black man riding a bike and think he flips them off, cops stop short and jump out the car and read the guy the riot act.
 
2013-08-20 01:11:10 PM  
Is this the suck authority's dick thread?
 
2013-08-20 01:12:08 PM  
this whole thing is a non issue.
he broke the law, got stopped, behaved like an entitled ass
(trust me, I've heard it..'I'm calling your boss')
fark this dude
 
2013-08-20 01:20:01 PM  

illannoyin: Whatever. Slash is more hype than talent.


Slash is an awesome guitarist.
 
2013-08-20 01:23:46 PM  

Land Ark: Says the guy who's never hit a deer.


I SUSPECT that if you hit a deer in an intersection after making a stop, you'd both probably be fine.  This is going to be a low speed crash with a dude on a bike.  He's going to get hurt and I guess possibly die (pretty unlikely) and the car's going to have some scratches.
 
2013-08-20 01:27:37 PM  

Fista-Phobia: Is this the suck authority's dick thread?


No, that's two up.
 
2013-08-20 01:32:37 PM  

crab66: Being black while blacking the black black.


So he was writing on this with a sharpie?
farm5.static.flickr.com
 
2013-08-20 01:40:57 PM  

serial_crusher: This story is possibly the ultimate fark conundrum.  Do you hate on the cyclist who ran the red light, applaud the cops who pulled him over for it?  Or do you hate on the cop who pulled a taser on a guy?  Or, do you hate on a cop who let a fireman off easy?


Was he pulled over for waving to the cops or pulled over for running the stop sign?  He wasn't charged with running the stop sign, but we are all assuming he gets a pass because he is a fireman?

Did he try to call the Police Chief because the officer was angry and aggressive or was the officer angry and aggressive because he was trying to call the police chief?
 
2013-08-20 01:41:40 PM  
dnrtfa... did the violent crimelord apologize for flaunting his blackness?
 
2013-08-20 01:53:31 PM  
I lost all sympathy for him when I found out he admitted to running the stop sign.

He's lucky he didn't get tased.

This is a non-story about a righteous traffic stop that ended with a warning instead of a ticket or arrest.
 
2013-08-20 02:05:52 PM  

JonPace: Cop haters are reaching a new level of stupid every day. It's pretty obvious the guy isn't being fully truthful. First it was they pulled him over because he waved at them, then later admitted they did have a legit reason. If a cop pulls you over and you refuse to talk to them and make phone calls instead, they absolutely will take your phone away. If you try and physically stop them, then you can expect a tasing. They didn't even hurt the guy, they showed him the taser and have him plenty of time to comply. There are plenty of times even cops get way too aggressive way too fast. This wasn't one off those times. And him thinking he's above the law because he's a firefighter is just stupid. Professional courtesy means they're more likely to let you get away with a minor victimless violation (which they did). Not be a disrespectful douche who throws around the "Do you know who I am!?" Card


A taxpayer, a citizen, and one of the people that pays his salary. Isn't that sufficient for some measure of respect?

\of course, believe everything the cop says
\\he has no ulterior motives at all, of course not
\\\he was carrying Skittles, I'm sure of it
 
2013-08-20 02:07:24 PM  

Fista-Phobia: Is this the suck authority's dick thread?


Apparently talking on your phone while getting a traffic ticket IS justification for getting tazed.

So... YES.
 
2013-08-20 02:08:43 PM  
Cops and cyclists are both below pond-scum on the hierarchy of intelligent life. Since cyclists are below cops, I have no choce but to side with the police in this matter.
 
2013-08-20 02:09:08 PM  

Super_pope: You don't need to escalate this by taking his phone away from him.  He ran a stop sign (ON A BIKE, its not like he was a threat to anyone but his own stupid ass) write him a ticket and move on.  If he won't take it I guess you can arrest him, but if you're not planning on DOING that don't pull a dangerous weapon on him and force him to comply for some inane shiat.


This.  Tasers aren't toys.  They are "less than lethal" weapons, but weapons nonetheless.  I've known a few cops in my day.  The good ones know how to make discreet judgments based on situations.  The rest are promoted.

But seriously, the problem is that "bad cops" see a huge swath of people as potential threats and respond accordingly, by brandishing weapons for example.  Sometimes the swath of people is blacks (racist cops), sometimes it is the homeless, or any other sub-category.

The good cops I have known actually are understanding individuals with good heads on their shoulders.  The are the minority because the don't "get off" on the trappings of the job.
 
2013-08-20 02:18:30 PM  

wambu: I was all set to be outraged until I read it was a bicyclist.


The officer was too lenient. All bicyclists should be tazed every day. Might be they will remember thier place, then.
 
2013-08-20 03:10:02 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Yeah, like that will happen without some changes:


Hmmm...  'Fraternal Order of Police' sounds Union to me, especially with the appealing firing, and arbitrator making the final decision.


I'll note that I think that unions can be a good thing, however I believe that public worker unions tend to be too powerful today.

You have ideas, doctors work in hospitals, but still require malpractice insurance so they are careful and if they f**k up one too many time game over.

I have quite a few ideas, but in the interests of not writing a book, I'll just give a brief overview of one:
1.  Form an independent review board to settle claims.
2.  Have a budget for malpractice claims - if the police manage to come under estimates for malpractice/liability claims, then the remaining budget goes to them as a bonus.  Have a setup where something like half of a claim goes against the officer's specific part of the bonus, the other half against all officers in general(motive not to screw up; motive to not let others screw up).
3.  Remove the near total personal financial liability immunity officers currently enjoy in the case of malpractice.  Actually forbid departments from paying an officer's fines.

How about the same for cops, that way taxpayers wouldn't be subsidising stupid arrogant and violent cops behavior.

It's an idea.  Not sure if unions would proceed to water it down by offering 'no fault' insurance to all officers, despite measures of past behavior indicating one should be charged vastly higher premiums.  The union would have to somehow ensure that individual officers can't jump ship to get the insurance cheaper elsewhere because they're safe, of course.

RyansPrivates: The good cops I have known actually are understanding individuals with good heads on their shoulders. The are the minority because the don't "get off" on the trappings of the job.


I think this is an extremely telling factor.  I've heard of police retiring after 20+ years who had never had to even draw their firearm during their career, while there are cops working the same beat who end up drawing darn near every week.

It comes down to deescalation skills, conflict management, etc...  I remember reading about a federal marshal who had a habit of riding into bandit camps and convincing them to surrender - doing so while unarmed at times.  He was a great policeman.  Not everybody can be that great, but from what I've seen of police training today, many of the 'control' techniques they're taught actually tend to increase the odds of conflict.  They're being taught to dominate, be 'alpha'.  But things like getting into somebody's personal space increases the odds for conflict.

The best officers can convince gang bangers to climb into the back of the police car themselves.  The worst need the backup of a dozen officers to forcefully shove a kicking, screaming, and biting grandma into the back of said car.
 
2013-08-20 03:24:10 PM  
Firethorn
RyansPrivates: The good cops I have known actually are understanding individuals with good heads on their shoulders. The are the minority because the don't "get off" on the trappings of the job.
I think this is an extremely telling factor. I've heard of police retiring after 20+ years who had never had to even draw their firearm during their career, while there are cops working the same beat who end up drawing darn near every week.
It comes down to deescalation skills, conflict management, etc... I remember reading about a federal marshal who had a habit of riding into bandit camps and convincing them to surrender - doing so while unarmed at times. He was a great policeman. Not everybody can be that great, but from what I've seen of police training today, many of the 'control' techniques they're taught actually tend to increase the odds of conflict. They're being taught to dominate, be 'alpha'. But things like getting into somebody's personal space increases the odds for conflict.
The best officers can convince gang bangers to climb into the back of the police car themselves. The worst need the backup of a dozen officers to forcefully shove a kicking, screaming, and biting grandma into the back of said car.


Well said. Not sure what you do but you are close to the field.

Are there any keywords that I can use to search these specific control techniques used by police today?
 
2013-08-20 03:51:28 PM  

mediablitz: Kuroshin: In this specific case, they really didn't do anything wrong. I came for the outrage, but found only "meh". Dude broke the law, got pissy for being stopped, tried to talk his way out of a ticket, then whined to the court about how he was treated appropriately for his conduct.

Hmmm. Pulling a taser is appropriate treatment for a traffic ticket now. Don't you DARE talk on your phone while a ticket is being written!


Because situations never escalate and as such we should base the entirety of our opinion on the very first cause of the stop and nothing more. And yes, talking on your phone during a traffic stop can be defined as disobeying a police order if asked to stop while instruction or information is being given/taken.

Nimrods like you are why intelligent folk laugh at unbridled, generalizing cop hate. Not every law/action you disagree with is due to authoritarian/police state evolution, despite how loud the mouth-breathers scream it.

Keep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.
 
2013-08-20 04:18:36 PM  
Perpetuous Procrastination
Keep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.


I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite.  Can we have that from the police too?
 
2013-08-20 04:26:52 PM  

Firethorn: I think this is an extremely telling factor.  I've heard of police retiring after 20+ years who had never had to even draw their firearm during their career, while there are cops working the same beat who end up drawing darn near every week.

It comes down to deescalation skills, conflict management, etc


Indeed.  One former cop I know fairly well was just like this.  I know he had to draw his weapon a few times, but not often.  Many of the people in his area, criminals and victims alike, knew him and talked to him like a human being.  There was one lady, clearly mentally ill and homeless, that would wander into public places and make a scene.  He showed up and quickly defused the situation and got her to a shelter.
 
2013-08-20 05:02:20 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Are there any keywords that I can use to search these specific control techniques used by police today?


Hmm...  Maybe "command voice", "dominance", "Control" - I'm not an expert.  Mostly caught a bit on the edges because I'm military.  The training I get is to try to keep from being seen as a jackbooted thug and pissing people off to avoid generating more insurgents, and maybe convince the current set to put down their arms.

RyansPrivates: Many of the people in his area, criminals and victims alike, knew him and talked to him like a human being.


Indeed, there are days I wish we'd return to 'Officer of the Peace' as opposed to 'Law Enforcement Officer'

Enemabag Jones: I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite. Can we have that from the police too?


Rare is the time that you get incidents like the op unless both sides are being assholes.  It takes two to tango.
 
2013-08-20 05:10:00 PM  

Enemabag Jones: Perpetuous Procrastination
Keep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.

I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite.  Can we have that from the police too?


Absolutely. And the vast majority of the time I believe they are. I have personally had a bad encounter with police (complete with gun drawn and screaming to get on the ground); I was also able to comprehend, however, that the circumstances surrounding the visit (dry ice bombs in the middle of the night on New Year's Eve) may have warranted such a response. After the initial excitement, both parties were able to politely exchange information, clarify the situation, and walked away none the worse (including dodging ticket/arrest for noise ordinance violations and possible explosive device charges).

The problem is the only 'encounters' we ever see in the news are the bad ones. Every blue moon there's some restoring faith in humanity story, but by and far no one cares about those. That's the real problem here: sensationalized police drama that's entirely out of context with regard to the bigger picture; thousands upon thousands of encounters take place every day, and a handful of those are truly "bad" - yet everything police do is bad. It's a huge problem anymore (and not just with police, mind you) - people who believe everything that's spoon fed to them by sensationalist media or a few anecdotal stories from people who were probably the real problem but can't accept responsibility for it. The police definitely have bad apples among the ranks, but it's not even close to the reality that some would have us believe.

Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.
 
2013-08-20 05:17:34 PM  
Perpetuous Procrastination
Absolutely. And the vast majority of the time I believe they are. I have personally had a bad encounter with police (complete with gun drawn and screaming to get on the ground); I was also able to comprehend, however, that the circumstances surrounding the visit (dry ice bombs in the middle of the night on New Year's Eve) may have warranted such a response. After the initial excitement, both parties were able to politely exchange information, clarify the situation, and walked away none the worse (including dodging ticket/arrest for noise ordinance violations and possible explosive device charges).


I can guarantee that if you met the cops that I had on my bad experience you ass would have been in jail, and they probably would have found felony charges to throw at you.
 
2013-08-20 05:26:25 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: Enemabag Jones: Perpetuous Procrastination
Keep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.

I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite.  Can we have that from the police too?

Absolutely. And the vast majority of the time I believe they are. I have personally had a bad encounter with police (complete with gun drawn and screaming to get on the ground); I was also able to comprehend, however, that the circumstances surrounding the visit (dry ice bombs in the middle of the night on New Year's Eve) may have warranted such a response. After the initial excitement, both parties were able to politely exchange information, clarify the situation, and walked away none the worse (including dodging ticket/arrest for noise ordinance violations and possible explosive device charges).

The problem is the only 'encounters' we ever see in the news are the bad ones. Every blue moon there's some restoring faith in humanity story, but by and far no one cares about those. That's the real problem here: sensationalized police drama that's entirely out of context with regard to the bigger picture; thousands upon thousands of encounters take place every day, and a handful of those are truly "bad" - yet everything police do is bad. It's a huge problem anymore (and not just with police, mind you) - people who believe everything that's spoon fed to them by sensationalist media or a few anecdotal stories from people who were probably the real problem but can't accept responsibility for it. The police definitely have bad apples among the ranks, but it's not even close to the reality that some would have us believe.

Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.


So, when both sides have the capability to be suspect, you will always side with the police. Your police department is regularly reliable enough that if there are ever, *any* "he said/she said" questions arise between the Police and *anyone* else, the assumption of truth *always* goes to the Police.

Thanks, Officer.

\I treat every police officer I meet with respect
\\and if he shows his ass to me, I will point it out to him and tell him I expect better
\\\BECAUSE HE'S MY GODDAMN EMPLOYEE, AND THE FORCE HE WIELDS DEMANDS A HIGHER STANDARD OF RESTRAINT
 
2013-08-20 06:34:20 PM  
CheapEngineer:So, when both sides have thecapability to be suspect, you will always side with the police. Your police department is regularly reliable enough that if there are ever, *any* "he said/she said" questions arise between the Police and *anyone* else, the assumption of truth *always* goes to the Police.

Thanks, Officer.

\I treat every police officer I meet with respect
\\and if he shows his ass to me, I will point it out to him and tell him I expect better
\\\BECAUSE HE'S MY GODDAMN EMPLOYEE, AND THE FORCE HE WIELDS DEMANDS A HIGHER STANDARD OF RESTRAINT


Oh look, another of those folks who make mass generalizations because they're incapable of critical thought or anything beyond black and white reality.

No, I pretty clearly pointed out that both sides can and are culpable in police encounters gone wrong, and that police are not infallible. What I also pointed out was that of the  thousands of police encounters daily, somehow the only ones that get reported are the  bad ones, at which point the window-lickers proceed to shout from the rooftops "SEE! I TOLD YOU THE POPO WERE PIGS!!1!11!"

Ironically, you're saying much the same as I am: you act with respect and even when you feel the need to point out misconduct you maintain that respect lest you fall victim to the same behavior you're detesting. I was pointing out that regardless of what that misconduct is (and short of you being in danger of severe harm or death, it pretty much falls into the 'put your pride on hold and deal with it after the encounter' category) being a tough guy and going all Constitutional Law/I'm better than the police/I can make phone calls during a stop/I can act like a dick because  they're my employee is a great way to end up in jail and becoming part of the problem you think you're trying to resolve.

tl;dr - Police can be dicks, yes. The latter is a very small minority of total police interactions every single day, much the same as every other job in the world. Being Billy Badass doesn't solve that and makes you part of the problem. Whining about police after being Billy Badass is hypocrisy at it's finest and is about as far from "always siding with the police" as you can get, unless you think common sense is "siding with the police."
 
2013-08-20 06:42:27 PM  

Perpetuous Procrastination: Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.


This is the problem with modern day police interaction.  That last statement "level playing fields get people killed."  No.  No they don't.  And if you're a Police Officer, you are literally worlds behind

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/03/01/top-10-most-dangerous-jobs/

Garbage man, truck driver, and farmer.  Cops are no better or different from anyone else, and this bizarre fantasy they're being fed by the LEO echo chamber needs to be put to bed.  None of us, even in the most dangerous neighborhoods in America live in an urban warzone where we need to constantly fear assassination.  Nobody is going to get killed if cops stop pulling their guns out to threaten ultimate acts of violence on essentially anyone they feel like.  The phrase of this generation is, "I felt threatened and thought I saw a gun, so I fired twice killing the suspect."  Doesn't matter if it was a traffic stop for somebody with no criminal record and nothing in their hands, no wrong doing because as a cop he needed to be afraid that that 45 year old bald guy was actually a Colombian death squad assassin assigned to get pulled over so he could murder him and then rape his wife and eat his children.  Anything to go home at night, bang bang!
 
2013-08-20 07:35:57 PM  

Super_pope: Perpetuous Procrastination: Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.

This is the problem with modern day police interaction.  That last statement "level playing fields get people killed."  No.  No they don't.  And if you're a Police Officer, you are literally worlds behind

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/03/01/top-10-most-dangerous-jobs/

Garbage man, truck driver, and farmer.  Cops are no better or different from anyone else, and this bizarre fantasy they're being fed by the LEO echo chamber needs to be put to bed.  None of us, even in the most dangerous neighborhoods in America live in an urban warzone where we need to constantly fear assassination.  Nobody is going to get killed if cops stop pulling their guns out to threaten ultimate acts of violence on essentially anyone they feel like.  The phrase of this generation is, "I felt threatened and thought I saw a gun, so I fired twice killing the suspect."  Doesn't matter if it was a traffic stop for somebody with no criminal record and nothing in their hands, no wrong doing because as a cop he needed to be afraid that that 45 year old bald guy was actually a Colombian death squad assassin assigned to get pulled over so he could murder him and then rape his wife and eat his children.  Anything to go home at night, bang bang!


My favorite part is where you're talking about cops overreacting while extrapolating extreme hyperbole from situations that, more often than not, warrant at least extra precaution on the part of the police. Contrary to your media-sensationalism-fed reality, police aren't mind readers nor do they have instantaneous information that would remove all doubt from every single situation they encounter.

As I said, and you conveniently ignored, most of the stories you hear about horrible police incidents account for an incredibly tiny fraction of all police activity and yet it draws the most attention. Do I think it should be ignored? Absolutely not. Do I think people should recognize that police, in general, aren't as bad as knee-jerk reactionaries frothing from the mouth would have you believe? Absolutely.

Your "dangerous jobs" facts, while interesting (and already known on my part) isn't completely accurate in the larger picture, either. Plenty of factors go into those numbers to include, but not limited to: better training, lower crime rates across the US, better equipment and technology, etc. This leads to an obvious disparity when compared to jobs where equipment or training lag behind or simply don't exist. How much technological changes have been made to truck driving in recent years (ignoring the fact that they're going longer hours thanks to companies pushing their hours and loads, of course, because that would be too easy)?

Here, go ahead and check this out, since there aren't any official sources for police-related killings in the U.S:

http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/01/police-involved-shoot in gs-2011-annual.html

How many total police encounters are there? Well, over 67  MILLION in 2008 (very likely higher in 2011):

http://www.bjs.gov/index. cfm?ty=tp&tid=70

So approximately 2 in 100,000 encounters leading to a shooting and even less resulting in a police-related death; most of which involved an armed suspect or someone with extensive criminal history (putting your stupid embellishment to bed, thanks).

Woah, we'd better get really angry over these numbers! Is this where I compare automobile-related deaths to police-related deaths to show how stupid this outrage is? You know, since fallacies are fun and all?
 
2013-08-20 08:19:53 PM  
"Plenty of factors go into those numbers to include, but not limited to: better training, lower crime rates across the US, better equipment and technology, etc. This leads to an obvious disparity when compared to jobs where equipment or training lag behind or simply don't exist. How much technological changes have been made to truck driving in recent years..."

Not many but I recently saw an amazing development indicating that in dramatically safer cities across the US, not pulling farking guns out all the time leads to fewer deaths.  Also farming has transformed to an amazing degree in the last few decades, I've often heard it said that its the most mechanized occupation in America.

http://www.policemisconduct.net/statistics/2010-annual-report/#_Exce ss ive_Force

"There have been 127 fatalities associated with credible excessive force allegations within 2010, which means approximately 8.1% of reported excessive force cases involved fatalities. Of these excessive force fatalities, 91 were caused by firearms, 19 were caused by physical force, 11 by taser, and 6 by other causes."

http://www.odmp.org/search/year
Just in 2010 there were five times as many fatalities linked to credible excessive force complaints than there were officers killed in the line of duty (guys who were actually deliberately killed, not dead in an accident from say... blowing through red lights without their sirens because they don't give a shiat about laws that aren't convenient).

What's really interesting is when you get to the end and note the the per-capita rate for murder is 10% higher than the general population for police, and the sex crimes rate is more than DOUBLE that of the regular population.

A policing program that emphasizes solving conflict through hyper-aggressive shock-and-awe tactics rather than deescalation has done a bang-up job for us!
 
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