serial_crusher: This story is possibly the ultimate fark conundrum. Do you hate on the cyclist who ran the red light, applaud the cops who pulled him over for it? Or do you hate on the cop who pulled a taser on a guy? Or, do you hate on a cop who let a fireman off easy?
trappedspirit: He had a taser pointed at him, this is the complaint? You're not following instructions from a cop and the cop doesn't tase you and you want him disciplined? Am I taking crazy pills?
Lady J: so the policeman is called Jason Clegg, and that automatically generates a subtag of Nick Clegg... leader of the UK Liberal Democrats.
Lady J: so the policeman is called Jason Clegg, and that automatically generates a subtag of Nick Clegg... leader of the UK Liberal Democrats.some of the tags are funnier than the headlines. not in this case though
mike_d85: I honestly don't know who I'm pissed at, so I'm just going to rage in the vague direction of Indiana for five minutes.[www.freedomsphoenix.com image 385x238]/hot
Deep Contact: Ha! Internal investigation.All right officer, did you use too much force?No.OK, case closed.
unlikely: So wait let me get this straight:The guy ran a stop signThe cops stopped himHe was a dick about stuff, didn't answer their questions, and kept making phone calls while they talked to him...and he didn't just get arrested? They brandished but did not use a nonlethal weapon... and he's mad about that?
wxboy: So does the "/" key not work on Submitter's keyboard?
kbronsito: Finally, they asked me if I had calmed down, and I kept telling them I was never out of sorts.
oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beat me massa."
BattleFrenchie28: wxboy: So does the "/" key not work on Submitter's keyboard?You're misreading the headline, he's part of a Guns and Roses cover band.
oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beats me massa."
AngryDragon: oryx: Being black, he obviously doesn't know to interact with the police. He should immediately cower, bulge his eyes out, and say in a wailing high pitched voice, "Don't beat me massa."Based on the show "Cops" I thought it was start running away at top speed, throwing shiat out of your pockets in all directions, screaming "I 'aint done nuthin'!".
untaken_name: Cops don't think cops did anything wrong? WHAT?!? That's incredibly shocking, especially after the past 20-30 years of exactly that happening in almost every case of alleged police misconduct. If I promise never to call the police for any reason whatsoever, can I investigate any allegations of wrongdoing on my part instead of them? I promise to put just as much care into my internal investigations as the police do. Honest.
crab66: Being black while blacking the black black.
Enemabag Jones: Firethorn ,I like your thesis on the trinity of union, legal and government work, it is one of the more rational explanations I have heard explaining the current insanity.It's not that an officer with a big binder of disciplinary infractions can't be a good officer on the whole, but it means that a lot more attention needs to be paid to him to make sure he is a good officer - and that he should be cut loose if he isn't.Yeah, like that will happen without some changes:LinkYou have ideas, doctors work in hospitals, but still require malpractice insurance so they are careful and if they f**k up one too many time game over.How about the same for cops, that way taxpayers wouldn't be subsidising stupid arrogant and violent cops behavior.
Sybarite: He looked pretty intimidating.[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x290]
Kuroshin: In this specific case, they really didn't do anything wrong. I came for the outrage, but found only "meh". Dude broke the law, got pissy for being stopped, tried to talk his way out of a ticket, then whined to the court about how he was treated appropriately for his conduct.
Enemabag Jones: To those who say fark is a hate site for cops, true enough. So is reddit, I don't think slashdot users exactly love them either although that is not their site is about.Can you show me a non-police website that loves police?I am interested and would to get your input.\The funny thing, many police websites put up firewalls up block non-police members. I wonder why?
illannoyin: Whatever. Slash is more hype than talent.
Land Ark: Says the guy who's never hit a deer.
Fista-Phobia: Is this the suck authority's dick thread?
JonPace: Cop haters are reaching a new level of stupid every day. It's pretty obvious the guy isn't being fully truthful. First it was they pulled him over because he waved at them, then later admitted they did have a legit reason. If a cop pulls you over and you refuse to talk to them and make phone calls instead, they absolutely will take your phone away. If you try and physically stop them, then you can expect a tasing. They didn't even hurt the guy, they showed him the taser and have him plenty of time to comply. There are plenty of times even cops get way too aggressive way too fast. This wasn't one off those times. And him thinking he's above the law because he's a firefighter is just stupid. Professional courtesy means they're more likely to let you get away with a minor victimless violation (which they did). Not be a disrespectful douche who throws around the "Do you know who I am!?" Card
Super_pope: You don't need to escalate this by taking his phone away from him. He ran a stop sign (ON A BIKE, its not like he was a threat to anyone but his own stupid ass) write him a ticket and move on. If he won't take it I guess you can arrest him, but if you're not planning on DOING that don't pull a dangerous weapon on him and force him to comply for some inane shiat.
wambu: I was all set to be outraged until I read it was a bicyclist.
Enemabag Jones: Yeah, like that will happen without some changes:
RyansPrivates: The good cops I have known actually are understanding individuals with good heads on their shoulders. The are the minority because the don't "get off" on the trappings of the job.
mediablitz: Kuroshin: In this specific case, they really didn't do anything wrong. I came for the outrage, but found only "meh". Dude broke the law, got pissy for being stopped, tried to talk his way out of a ticket, then whined to the court about how he was treated appropriately for his conduct.Hmmm. Pulling a taser is appropriate treatment for a traffic ticket now. Don't you DARE talk on your phone while a ticket is being written!
Firethorn: I think this is an extremely telling factor. I've heard of police retiring after 20+ years who had never had to even draw their firearm during their career, while there are cops working the same beat who end up drawing darn near every week.It comes down to deescalation skills, conflict management, etc
Enemabag Jones: Are there any keywords that I can use to search these specific control techniques used by police today?
RyansPrivates: Many of the people in his area, criminals and victims alike, knew him and talked to him like a human being.
Enemabag Jones: I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite. Can we have that from the police too?
Enemabag Jones: Perpetuous ProcrastinationKeep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite. Can we have that from the police too?
Perpetuous Procrastination: Enemabag Jones: Perpetuous ProcrastinationKeep thinking you're above being respectful during a police encounter, though; maybe some day we'll get to see your mug on a Fark story.I completely agree, both parties should be civil and polite. Can we have that from the police too?Absolutely. And the vast majority of the time I believe they are. I have personally had a bad encounter with police (complete with gun drawn and screaming to get on the ground); I was also able to comprehend, however, that the circumstances surrounding the visit (dry ice bombs in the middle of the night on New Year's Eve) may have warranted such a response. After the initial excitement, both parties were able to politely exchange information, clarify the situation, and walked away none the worse (including dodging ticket/arrest for noise ordinance violations and possible explosive device charges).The problem is the only 'encounters' we ever see in the news are the bad ones. Every blue moon there's some restoring faith in humanity story, but by and far no one cares about those. That's the real problem here: sensationalized police drama that's entirely out of context with regard to the bigger picture; thousands upon thousands of encounters take place every day, and a handful of those are truly "bad" - yet everything police do is bad. It's a huge problem anymore (and not just with police, mind you) - people who believe everything that's spoon fed to them by sensationalist media or a few anecdotal stories from people who were probably the real problem but can't accept responsibility for it. The police definitely have bad apples among the ranks, but it's not even close to the reality that some would have us believe.Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.
Perpetuous Procrastination: Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.
Super_pope: Perpetuous Procrastination: Too many badasses want to put their pride first during a police encounter and then cry when the police knock them off their pedestal. This isn't a level playing field - it never has been, it never will be; level playing fields get people killed.This is the problem with modern day police interaction. That last statement "level playing fields get people killed." No. No they don't. And if you're a Police Officer, you are literally worlds behindhttp://jobs.aol.com/articles/2011/03/01/top-10-most-dangerous-jobs/Garbage man, truck driver, and farmer. Cops are no better or different from anyone else, and this bizarre fantasy they're being fed by the LEO echo chamber needs to be put to bed. None of us, even in the most dangerous neighborhoods in America live in an urban warzone where we need to constantly fear assassination. Nobody is going to get killed if cops stop pulling their guns out to threaten ultimate acts of violence on essentially anyone they feel like. The phrase of this generation is, "I felt threatened and thought I saw a gun, so I fired twice killing the suspect." Doesn't matter if it was a traffic stop for somebody with no criminal record and nothing in their hands, no wrong doing because as a cop he needed to be afraid that that 45 year old bald guy was actually a Colombian death squad assassin assigned to get pulled over so he could murder him and then rape his wife and eat his children. Anything to go home at night, bang bang!
Super_pope: "Plenty of factors go into those numbers to include, but not limited to: better training, lower crime rates across the US, better equipment and technology, etc. This leads to an obvious disparity when compared to jobs where equipment or training lag behind or simply don't exist. How much technological changes have been made to truck driving in recent years..."Not many but I recently saw an amazing development indicating that in dramatically safer cities across the US, not pulling farking guns out all the time leads to fewer deaths. Also farming has transformed to an amazing degree in the last few decades, I've often heard it said that its the most mechanized occupation in America.http://www.policemisconduct.net/statistics/2010-annual-report/#_Exce ss ive_Force"There have been 127 fatalities associated with credible excessive force allegations within 2010, which means approximately 8.1% of reported excessive force cases involved fatalities. Of these excessive force fatalities, 91 were caused by firearms, 19 were caused by physical force, 11 by taser, and 6 by other causes."http://www.odmp.org/search/yearJust in 2010 there were five times as many fatalities linked to credible excessive force complaints than there were officers killed in the line of duty (guys who were actually deliberately killed, not dead in an accident from say... blowing through red lights without their sirens because they don't give a shiat about laws that aren't convenient).What's really interesting is when you get to the end and note the the per-capita rate for murder is 10% higher than the general population for police, and the sex crimes rate is more than DOUBLE that of the regular population.A policing program that emphasizes solving conflict through hyper-aggressive shock-and-awe tactics rather than deescalation has done a bang-up job for us!
Perpetuous Procrastination: CheapEngineer:So, when both sides have thecapability to be suspect, you will always side with the police. Your police department is regularly reliable enough that if there are ever, *any* "he said/she said" questions arise between the Police and *anyone* else, the assumption of truth *always* goes to the Police.Thanks, Officer.\I treat every police officer I meet with respect\\and if he shows his ass to me, I will point it out to him and tell him I expect better\\\BECAUSE HE'S MY GODDAMN EMPLOYEE, AND THE FORCE HE WIELDS DEMANDS A HIGHER STANDARD OF RESTRAINTOh look, another of those folks who make mass generalizations because they're incapable of critical thought or anything beyond black and white reality.No, I pretty clearly pointed out that both sides can and are culpable in police encounters gone wrong, and that police are not infallible. What I also pointed out was that of the thousands of police encounters daily, somehow the only ones that get reported are the bad ones, at which point the window-lickers proceed to shout from the rooftops "SEE! I TOLD YOU THE POPO WERE PIGS!!1!11!"Ironically, you're saying much the same as I am: you act with respect and even when you feel the need to point out misconduct you maintain that respect lest you fall victim to the same behavior you're detesting. I was pointing out that regardless of what that misconduct is (and short of you being in danger of severe harm or death, it pretty much falls into the 'put your pride on hold and deal with it after the encounter' category) being a tough guy and going all Constitutional Law/I'm better than the police/I can make phone calls during a stop/I can act like a dick because they're my employee is a great way to end up in jail and becoming part of the problem you think you're trying to resolve.tl;dr - Police can be dicks, yes. The latter is a very small minority of total police interactions every single day, much the same as every other job in the world. Being Billy Bad ...
Perpetuous Procrastination: Praytell, what's an "acceptable" level of police faults if it's not .0000001%? Note: zero is not an acceptable answer unless you've invented a line of robot police who make no mistakes. I await your hyperbole-free answer with bated breath.
CheapEngineer: This issue isn't "cops can't make mistakes" but what happens when they do make mistakes
Perpetuous Procrastination: I'm still amused at your narrowing-down of statistics to make things look terrible while still ignoring the fact that every single thing you cited is in the percentages of percentages of percentages of total police interactions.
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