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(Tech Crunch)   Instagram cracks down on apps using "insta" and "gram" in their names. How is instain gramma to send cat pitcures now?   (techcrunch.com) divider line 61
    More: Misc, Instagram, Eduardo Saverin, Dustin Moskovitz, API, social networking service  
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1938 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Aug 2013 at 10:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



61 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-20 09:38:51 AM
Those cat picures can't even fright back.
 
2013-08-20 10:00:45 AM
How is lawsuit formed?
 
2013-08-20 10:06:45 AM
Poor Mongo isn't going to be able to get his candy now.
 
PJ-
2013-08-20 10:28:55 AM
How about Instafackinggram?  Make it a dating website.
 
2013-08-20 10:29:52 AM
But what about my Instant Grammar app? Guaranteed to cause cat like typing.
 
2013-08-20 10:30:34 AM
it was on the news this mroing a gramma in ar who had post her three lolcats . they are taking the three kitteh back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who no has funneh ; i am truley sorry for your lots
 
2013-08-20 10:30:59 AM
img2.targetimg2.com
 
2013-08-20 10:31:19 AM
So it appears my new app, Margatsni, is safe for now?
 
2013-08-20 10:31:23 AM
*Sadly takes down his Instagraham cracker crust recipe.*
 
2013-08-20 10:34:35 AM
Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.
 
2013-08-20 10:35:45 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: So it appears my new app, Margatsni, is safe for now?


There are a lot of fun anagrams...

Grim Satan
Magi Rants
Sigma Rant
Giant Arms (or Giant Rams)
Mag Trains...
 
2013-08-20 10:38:48 AM
Interesting that links to Instuhgram force you to a login page in Internet Exploder, but go right to the content in Chrome. I would be outraged but that would require me to care.
 
2013-08-20 10:39:24 AM

Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.


They'd also have to sue whoever's in charge of the metric system.
 
2013-08-20 10:41:09 AM

Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.


Never seen an instamatic?
 
2013-08-20 10:41:23 AM
I can't stand Instagram. I don't want to be forced to share my stuff. But I do occasionally like to take those old timey stylized photos. So, Hipstamatic FTW! Plus, they have way more options for filters, lenses, etc.
 
2013-08-20 10:42:43 AM

Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.


This is relatively narrow, though - it's apps using *gram that work with the Instragram API. So, for example, "Webstagram", a web-based Instagram viewer. It'd be tough to argue that that name comes from "singing telegram".
 
2013-08-20 10:46:01 AM
damn, there goes my idea for a quick drug delivery service app
 
2013-08-20 10:52:00 AM
But it's TOTALLY ok for Instagram to steal "insta" from "insta-matic" and "gram" from "telegram". Twits.
 
2013-08-20 10:54:12 AM
They can try, but Instant is a word not a brand and Gram is a weight. Their lawyers will have to try to buy the dictionary and they can't so this is over with before it started.
 
2013-08-20 10:54:46 AM

itsaidwhat: But it's TOTALLY ok for Instagram to steal "insta" from "insta-matic" and "gram" from "telegram". Twits.


They left half of each name, so I am starting a new service called  TelematicTM.
 
2013-08-20 10:56:18 AM
So InstaJunk© and JunkGram© are out? How about TeleWiener© and JohnsonMatic©

I love it when the "Let's sell this company now" becomes the overriding motive for a fad.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-20 10:57:38 AM

itsaidwhat: But it's TOTALLY ok for Instagram to steal "insta" from "insta-matic" and "gram" from "telegram". Twits.

captcaveman: They can try, but Instant is a word not a brand and Gram is a weight. Their lawyers will have to try to buy the dictionary and they can't so this is over with before it started.

BitwiseShift: So InstaJunk© and JunkGram© are out? How about TeleWiener© and JohnsonMatic©


In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between copyright and trademark.
 
2013-08-20 11:03:38 AM

Theaetetus: itsaidwhat: But it's TOTALLY ok for Instagram to steal "insta" from "insta-matic" and "gram" from "telegram". Twits.
captcaveman: They can try, but Instant is a word not a brand and Gram is a weight. Their lawyers will have to try to buy the dictionary and they can't so this is over with before it started.
BitwiseShift: So InstaJunk© and JunkGram© are out? How about TeleWiener© and JohnsonMatic©

In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between copyright and trademark.


It's all about the terms of service.  They have much more power within their ToS to cut you off for any reason, which is what they're doing here.  Somebody will still try to fight it but it will be an uphill battle.
 
2013-08-20 11:09:58 AM

ArkPanda: Theaetetus: itsaidwhat: But it's TOTALLY ok for Instagram to steal "insta" from "insta-matic" and "gram" from "telegram". Twits.
captcaveman: They can try, but Instant is a word not a brand and Gram is a weight. Their lawyers will have to try to buy the dictionary and they can't so this is over with before it started.
BitwiseShift: So InstaJunk© and JunkGram© are out? How about TeleWiener© and JohnsonMatic©

In this thread: people who don't understand the difference between copyright and trademark.

It's all about the terms of service.  They have much more power within their ToS to cut you off for any reason, which is what they're doing here.  Somebody will still try to fight it but it will be an uphill battle.


Totally. They're using their contract and access to the API to provide leverage to protect their brand, to help secure meaningful rights under trademark law: you can't simply claim ownership of a mark, first you have to establish that the public identifies that mark as being associated with you. This helps them keep exclusivity over the brand, which will help the mark become distinctive.

It'd be stupid to fight this, too. I mean, seriously, when you're using someone else's data stream and API at their whim, you have to play nice. Either that, or move to an alternate service.
 
2013-08-20 11:14:49 AM
ArkPanda:

It's all about the terms of service.  They have much more power within their ToS to cut you off for any reason, which is what they're doing here.  Somebody will still try to fight it but it will be an uphill battle.

Instapundit is a law professor, with lots of free legal talent on retainer.  I'd like to see it.  "Insta" cannot be trademarked, nor can "gram".  The combination can be, but not the two parts individually.
 
2013-08-20 11:22:57 AM
Fark Instagram.  Fark it with a rusty railroad spike wrapped in barbed wire.
 
2013-08-20 11:23:47 AM
Eh, good luck on that, Instagram, but you should know that there is already camera-based "insta" precedent, namely, the Instamatic by Kodak, and you better hope that if you start litigating, that whoever holds that copyright now doesn't come for you, with your "insta"-based, camera and photography related malarky.
 
2013-08-20 11:23:48 AM
Sounds like spin on  "Intellectual Property, Imagined or Real" to moi. Was Roundly Scolded (tho not sued) & Firmly Requested to remove from circulation accidental Intellectual Property Theft aka CopyWrong once, some years Ago.  Now check all clearances 75 ways from Sunday!
 
2013-08-20 11:35:44 AM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

They'd also have to sue whoever's in charge of the metric system.


Fox News isn't sure who that is, but they're pretty sure it's a Communist.
 
2013-08-20 11:41:14 AM
Didn't Facebook try something like this? I remember them claiming that "Face" and "Book" were owned by them and anyone who was using those two words in their name were infringing on their ownership of said words.
 
2013-08-20 11:44:07 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
..-. .- .-. -.- / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / .. -. ... - .- -. ----- ----- -...
 
2013-08-20 11:45:52 AM
Instagram is Facebook in 2010. We've reached peak Instagram. They're stupid to not let everyone play. Let them ALL connect. Use their name. Everyone knows what they're referencing. Idiots. They'll be gone before they know it, and something else will be the "SOCIAL MEDIA" du jour.
 
2013-08-20 11:52:41 AM

Galloping Galoshes: ArkPanda:

It's all about the terms of service.  They have much more power within their ToS to cut you off for any reason, which is what they're doing here.  Somebody will still try to fight it but it will be an uphill battle.

Instapundit is a law professor, with lots of free legal talent on retainer.  I'd like to see it.  "Insta" cannot be trademarked, nor can "gram".  The combination can be, but not the two parts individually.


"Mc" cannot be trademarked, nor can "Donalds", but the combination can be, right? Except, see McCoffee, McDental, McSleep, and McMunchies, each of which were forced by McDonalds to change their name:
"As part of its promotion, McDonald's created a language that it called "McLanguage" from which it developed a family of marks for its products such as McChicken, McNugget, McPizza, as well as marks outside the food area related to its business such as McStop, McKids, and McShuttle. There is no evidence that this language or these marks existed before McDonald's created them or that, outside of McDonald's sphere of promotion and presence, anyone would understand these words to mean anything. "Mc" obviously is a Scottish or Irish surname used in proper names. The use to form words, however, was unique at the time. The marks that are owned by McDonald's and that were formulated by combining "Mc" and a generic word are fanciful and enjoy a meaning that associates the product immediately with McDonald's and its products and service.
They also constitute a family of marks that is enforceable against infringing uses, and since they are fanciful they will be given the strongest protection. McDonald's Corp. v. McBagel's, Inc., 649 F. Supp. 1268 (S.D.N.Y. 1986).
A family of marks may have a synergistic recognition that is greater than the sum of each mark."


Instagram could well obtain ownership of the Insta____ family of marks, or the ___gram family. They almost certainly haven't... yet. But this is using their ToS to get exclusivity of those families, and is the first step toward getting that family ownership.
 
2013-08-20 11:58:16 AM
I HAD to create an Instagram account recently simply so I could ask someone who posted a pic a question.
I found it on the web but could not "log in" until I had registered for an account.  Can't do that on the website!
Have to download the app first.  (bastards)
So I try to find it on my iPad.  Everything but the official app comes up!  dozens and dozens of Insta-this and that.
Took a few minutes to actually find it and then grab it.
Now I can't find it on the iPad.
Oh- it is iPhone only.
OK, so I get it on my iPhone, then register an account
THEN go back to the website image, log in, type question about image, get answer in like 5 minutes.
I'm done here.
what a PITA.

/end old man rant
 
2013-08-20 11:58:33 AM
I'm still blissfully ignorant of what Instagram is, or why I should care.

Not sure how I've been able to avoid it this long...especially since I work in IT....
 
2013-08-20 12:03:01 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: So it appears my new app, Margatsni, is safe for now?


How does it work? You upload pictures of hipsters and it makes them look normal?
Pictures of gourmet food become mcDs?
 
2013-08-20 12:07:33 PM

Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.


Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.
 
2013-08-20 12:15:23 PM
Instadick™
(French version)
thecreeksidecook.com
 
2013-08-20 12:16:32 PM

dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.


The word "apple" predates Apple Computers. That alone should be enough to tell you that "prior" may not always be relevant in trademark law.
 
2013-08-20 12:38:47 PM

Pontious Pilates: I can't stand Instagram. I don't want to be forced to share my stuff. But I do occasionally like to take those old timey stylized photos. So, Hipstamatic FTW! Plus, they have way more options for filters, lenses, etc.


Put your phone on airplane mode. Boom, no sharing!

/the more you know
 
2013-08-20 12:47:48 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Poor Mongo isn't going to be able to get his candy now.


Don't worry. I'll think of another trick.
 
2013-08-20 01:01:11 PM

dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.


The Internet has a weird way if evening the odds, too. This is from wayback:

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/sun-shine/Content?oid=118057 8
 
2013-08-20 01:02:31 PM

Theaetetus: dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.

The word "apple" predates Apple Computers. That alone should be enough to tell you that "prior" may not always be relevant in trademark law.


Why yes, yes it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
 
2013-08-20 01:10:20 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Instadick™
(French version)
[thecreeksidecook.com image 600x338]


It's girth, not length that matters.
spacebison.com
 
2013-08-20 01:14:32 PM

Theaetetus: dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.

The word "apple" predates Apple Computers. That alone should be enough to tell you that "prior" may not always be relevant in trademark law.


Ah, but there are a bunch of companies that incorporate the word "Apple" in their names:

http://www.mountainapplecompany.com/
http://www.bayfieldapple.com/
http://wackyapple.com/
http://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/
http://www.momsapplepieco.com/
http://www.littleapplebrewery.com/
http://www.applegroup.com/
http://www.applemetrorestaurants.com/
http://www.applecreekbank.com/

And that's just getting started, and not mentioning the really, really big one that is prior use to Apple Computing, Inc:   Apple Records.

I'm sure that Apple, Inc. would *LOVE* to make them all stop using the word "Apple" in their business names, especially ones like Apple Group, but they'd be laughed out of court.

Seems to me that the prefix "Insta", as it relates to computer-related materials, is prior art, and "gram" is also prior art related to information delivery services, which is what Instagram is used for, by oh, what, something like 170 years now, so that bird is long flown.

They've got a good claim to the two put together, as "Instagram", but not the two separately, just like Apple Computing, Inc, couldn't have sued companies for using the word "Apple" by a non-computer company, or for using the word "Computing" by a computer company, but they could have sued for the use of the combined name, or a similar logo.
 
2013-08-20 01:17:43 PM
I'd think that I****G***'s prior encouragement in their API for the use of those words would be a defense or at least provide a case for obtaining compensation for having to rebrand because of detrimental reliance.

I'm not a lawyer but I play one on Fark.
 
2013-08-20 01:26:15 PM

tjassen: Theaetetus: dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.

The word "apple" predates Apple Computers. That alone should be enough to tell you that "prior" may not always be relevant in trademark law.

Why yes, yes it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer


Did you read that link?  They settled out of court, and Apple Computer paid Apple Corps money, not the other-way 'round.  Because Apple Corps was there first.  Part of the settlement stated that Apple Computer wouldn't go into the music business, and Apple Corps wouldn't go into the computer business.

That essentially settled the trademark issue in favor of the entity that first held it.  Everything else after that was breach of contract because Apple Computer inevitably shifted into the music delivery service, first with midi files, then actual recorded musical content.
 
2013-08-20 01:32:40 PM

dittybopper: Theaetetus: dittybopper: Sim Tree: Insta- I might see, but -gram has been around a lot longer than instagram. Candygram, singing telegram, etc.

Insta- was around prior also.  Instagram was invented in 2010.  Glenn Reynolds has had a blog called "Instapundit" since 2001, 9 years prior to the invention of Instagram.  Maybe he should sue them.

The word "apple" predates Apple Computers. That alone should be enough to tell you that "prior" may not always be relevant in trademark law.

Ah, but there are a bunch of companies that incorporate the word "Apple" in their names:

http://www.mountainapplecompany.com/
http://www.bayfieldapple.com/
http://wackyapple.com/
http://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/
http://www.momsapplepieco.com/
http://www.littleapplebrewery.com/
http://www.applegroup.com/
http://www.applemetrorestaurants.com/
http://www.applecreekbank.com/

And that's just getting started, and not mentioning the really, really big one that is prior use to Apple Computing, Inc:   Apple Records.


... and? You'll note that the word "apple" predates every single one of those companies.

Apparently, I was unclear in my post. What I was pointing out is that while "prior art" is novelty-destroying in patents, and prior creation by another may be relevant to copying in copyright, prior use is not always relevant in trademark, depending on what that use was. It's only relevant if the prior user was also using the mark in the same way.

Clearer? The fact that clan McDougal existed doesn't prevent McDonalds from securing rights in their family mark. Similarly, the fact that Instapundit existed doesn't prevent Instagram from securing rights in their family mark. The bigger issue there would be Instamatic.
 
2013-08-20 01:42:16 PM
FTFA: So, can you blame Facebook for protecting the valuable Instagram brand name? No, not really.

Actually, yes.  Yes, I can.  Because Insta- and -gram are not trademarks.  That's not your brand name.

14.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-08-20 02:07:45 PM

blue_2501: FTFA: So, can you blame Facebook for protecting the valuable Instagram brand name? No, not really.

Actually, yes.  Yes, I can.  Because Insta- and -gram are not trademarks.  That's not your brand name.

[14.media.tumblr.com image 500x332]


Actually, Insta is a trademark.
 
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