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(Reuters)   In a move right out of an 19th century melodrama, Creditors asking if Detroit can be really 'that bankrupt' when there are perfectly good works of art left to loot   (reuters.com) divider line 77
    More: Stupid, Detroit, DIA, Governors of Michigan, Rivera, creditors, Macomb, bankruptcy, art  
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2168 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Aug 2013 at 12:32 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-19 05:14:46 PM

sethstorm: JohnAnnArbor: derp

No, I just see them as the least qualified entity given that they're more concerned with remaking a state (and in Detroit's case, city) in their own approved image than they are fixing the city.

If the entire ALEC/Mackinac apparatus were to be removed from Michigan, including Kevyn "Judas" Orr, and that their laws were reversed/nullified/repealed, perhaps one might be able to consider fixing Detroit.  At the minimum, they'd have to be neutered in ways equivalent to Ohio's legislature.  The key is that neither ALEC nor the Mackinac Institute (or like organizations) could benefit from Detroit's demise.


What you're doing is exactly what an addict does during an intervention. Blame others. Refuse help that doesn't cater to the addiction.

This is why Detroit will never be fixed under your mindset.
 
2013-08-19 05:17:36 PM

JohnAnnArbor: Ironic, too.  Any suggestion that maybe the City shouldn't run things like the DIA, that maybe it should be independently-run as a charity, was met with "WHITE PEOPLE TRYING TO STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN" silliness.  SO no suggestions along those lines ever moved forward.


...and then they were forced to run things like a business by an emergency manager who assetized everything he could and sold it to the lowest bidder.  And only after that happened did Detroit go bankrupt.

So if WHITE PEOPLE TRYNNA STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN was the goal...it worked.
 
2013-08-19 05:20:03 PM

skozlaw: ... so it's somehow the EM's fault that everything finally came crashing down?


...when there's nothing left but the pillars holding the ceiling up, you don't start hacking at the pillars.
 
2013-08-19 05:21:57 PM
Gosh, people are delusional.

Hint: loans aren't gifts.
 
2013-08-19 05:25:20 PM
SteetlightInTheGhetto I wrote a report on this in 4th grade.  My Dad showed me which person Riviera painted doing the job my grandfather did on the line, and where he painted Henry Ford and himself into the mural.  I've given countless tours of Detroit to friends in college and newly relocated friends and coworkers (giving another one Saturday) and the DIA is always a stop, always.

Everybody off DetroitYes instinctively goes 4 Fark's Trollbait.  Had a great interview with Max Hodge some years back, writer/producer who named "Mr. Freeze" for Bat-Man(a re-jiggered Mr. Zero), was a buddy @ U of M with Tom Harmon & "The Deuce", which led to his work on The Industry Murals.  Said early on he was trying to figure out if Frida Kahlo was the daughter or niece or what of Rivera, & it drove him nuts when Frida would take his doodlings from the trash & try to copy them, he said instead of being annoyed & throwing them out if he'd only held onto those...
 
2013-08-19 05:43:58 PM

IlGreven: JohnAnnArbor: Ironic, too.  Any suggestion that maybe the City shouldn't run things like the DIA, that maybe it should be independently-run as a charity, was met with "WHITE PEOPLE TRYING TO STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN" silliness.  SO no suggestions along those lines ever moved forward.

...and then they were forced to run things like a business by an emergency manager who assetized everything he could and sold it to the lowest bidder.  And only after that happened did Detroit go bankrupt.

So if WHITE PEOPLE TRYNNA STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN was the goal...it worked.


The emergency manager was sent to Detroit because they were unable to pay their bills in the first place.  Guess what don't pay your bills you going to get repo-ed

The Museum however is nearly off limits due to various contracts and trusts that control most of the art, it's not worth the money in legal fees.  Furthermore it actually generates revenue for the city unlike everything else.
 
2013-08-19 06:31:49 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Is it an asset? I think it is. Every asset must be liquidated in bankruptcy, Detroit is not special.


The actual legal question seems to be "Is an asset that Detroit directly owns?"  The article seems to indicate that it's technically owned by an entity that is seperate from the city.
 
2013-08-19 06:43:32 PM

dryknife: I guess Detroit isn't experiencing a Low Winter Sun site tour boom like Albuquerque is with Breaking Bad.


Well, I think only two episodes of that series have aired so far, so it's a bit early.  One thing I've noticed (from seeing the first episode) is that there are way too many white people in it.  Detroit is 82.7% black, however the characters in the series are mostly white, including about half the cops, the secertary in the police station, and almost all the (non-cop) criminals (I think there was one black criminal (who got shot)).
 
2013-08-19 06:47:07 PM

IlGreven: JohnAnnArbor: Ironic, too.  Any suggestion that maybe the City shouldn't run things like the DIA, that maybe it should be independently-run as a charity, was met with "WHITE PEOPLE TRYING TO STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN" silliness.  SO no suggestions along those lines ever moved forward.

...and then they were forced to run things like a business by an emergency manager who assetized everything he could and sold it to the lowest bidder.  And only after that happened did Detroit go bankrupt.

So if WHITE PEOPLE TRYNNA STEAL OUR STUFF AGAIN was the goal...it worked.


Orr was in place for 4 months.  Detroit has been totally farked for 40 years since the election of Coleman Young and his cronies.  Orr didn't have TIME to pull shiat.

Now the inevitable partial to total screwing of the pensioners (since there is no money) as well as the looting of Detroit (though didn't someone upthread say assets were protected under Chapter 9) might be good for ALEC, but I didn't hear anything about Orr pulling some of the stuff like the other emergency managers.

/Mind you, I didn't hear anything other than Orr actually getting the books together and going "Holy shiat, you're even more screwed than you all thought you were" before the bankruptcy.
 
2013-08-19 06:59:38 PM

LeroyB: Is Detroit going to lose the naming rights to the river?

Who knows? Maybe it will become the "Windsor River" because of this.


Oh man, I hope so.  I can't wait for Drew to buy the naming rights on eBay and rename it the Abe Vigoda Memorial River or the UFIA River.
 
2013-08-19 07:34:39 PM

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I wrote a report on this in 4th grade. My Dad showed me which person Riviera painted doing the job my grandfather did on the line, and where he painted Henry Ford and himself into the mural. I've given countless tours of Detroit to friends in college and newly relocated friends and coworkers (giving another one Saturday) and the DIA is always a stop, always. Growing up in the suburbs I had friends who only went to Detroit to go to the DIA and maybe a Tigers or Red Wings game (no one admitted going to see the Lions), and that was it. Got several A's in photography in high school taking pictures of the architecture in and around it. The suburbs voted to raise taxes to help it along. What is in there can simply not be replaced, and it's one of the few things that really does tie the suburbs and the city together (other than sports). I knew every hidden corner and stairwell in that place like the back of my hand (until they renovated at least), and where all my favorite pieces were. Kind of corny, but it was an oasis for me.


Sell it off piecemeal, and you're ripping out the soul of the city for VERY little gain, if any.
Sigh.
Dammit, I have to go into Detroit today too and they're closed Mondays.  Oh well.  Weekend it is.


Sort of been there and done that with my own city about 4-5 hours south on I-75.  The city is far from bankrupt, but it let a certain (and quite large) cash register company go south to Duluth, Georgia - after building up a good part of the city for 125 years - in 2009.  Like the art gallery, the kind of company that NCR(even after their run-in w/ AT&T) was is one that is likely not to be replaced.  Unlike the art galleries, the university next to them(University of Dayton) just tramples over history like an angry bull in a china shop.


Mrbogey: What you're doing is exactly what an addict does during an intervention. Blame others. Refuse help that doesn't cater to the addiction.


Except that it's like two heroin pushers doing an intervention on someone that's addicted to crack.


meyerkev: Orr was in place for 4 months. Detroit has been totally farked for 40 years since the election of Coleman Young and his cronies. Orr didn't have TIME to pull shiat.

Now the inevitable partial to total screwing of the pensioners (since there is no money) as well as the looting of Detroit (though didn't someone upthread say assets were protected under Chapter 9) might be good for ALEC, but I didn't hear anything about Orr pulling some of the stuff like the other emergency managers.


You don't need much time if you're working on the basis that you're fulfilling a predestined conclusion.  As far as he's acted(i.e. the too-fast-for-comfort bankruptcy filing), they seem to think that the only way they can operate is without any ability for the opposition to block them.  About anyone looking at the books would think that Detroit's deeply screwed; the only problem is that someone in Lansing wants to turn the place into Delta City(and they almost got a literal version of it on Belle Isle).
 
2013-08-19 07:36:25 PM

Geotpf: The actual legal question seems to be "Is an asset that Detroit directly owns?" The article seems to indicate that it's technically owned by an entity that is seperate from the city.


Given the way Michigan operates now, are you referring to the art gallery or the city itself?
 
2013-08-19 08:30:01 PM
Heaven forbid that this priceless art might end up somewhere that people could actually see it.
 
2013-08-19 10:09:45 PM
If the artwork ends up off limits, expect every other troubled city to move all their assets into trusts.
 
2013-08-19 10:50:55 PM

error 303: Didn't Greece sell a bunch of ancient statues and other artificats super cheaply to the British?


Are you suggesting the DIA sell their collection to the British?
 
2013-08-19 11:14:24 PM

NostroZ: skinink: Every van Gogh must go!

[img199.imageshack.us image 850x616]

Cheeky!

Who needed art and history anyway... not like there's importance in those old relics.


Climb down from the ledge, Bernice. They'd sell the stuff, not set fire to it. The art and the history would still exist, just not in Detroit.
 
2013-08-19 11:32:47 PM
Oh, FFS.  The DIA is going nowhere.  The pensions are going to be kept whole.

It's everyone else who's going to get farked.
 
2013-08-20 12:26:20 AM
Yay unions
 
2013-08-20 01:27:09 AM
Bastard Banksters are just slobbering to force the original "Howdy Doody" puppet (which is now official Detroit property) up on the auction block.
 
2013-08-20 01:30:59 AM
It is known for a self portrait by Vincent Van

Vincent Van?  Sounds like the guy that did this:

cygnus-x1.net
 
2013-08-20 01:37:34 AM

meanmutton: Oh, FFS.  The DIA is going nowhere.  The pensions are going to be kept whole.

It's everyone else who's going to get farked.


Where they going to get the money? Not sure what they can cut.

I figure the bond holders get squat or pennies but even doing that Detroit can't pay it's current bills let alone all the promised pensions.
 
2013-08-20 02:13:51 AM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Pay your bills or you can't have nice things. Detroit was run for years like a 19 yr old girl with a credit card. Sucks, the DIA is awesome but so is pensioner's health care and basic city services. Maybe city leaders should have run the DIA like every other major city and held the art in a trust. But nope, they own the art outright and it's an asset.


Except that it is paid for by taxes from the entire Tri-County area. I don't live in Detroit, but that art is as much mine as it is anyone's. And I don't feel like selling it.
 
2013-08-20 02:45:34 AM

FlyingJ: tennessee.hillbilly Detroit should hide their artworks in traincars stuffed into tunnels outside Bertchesgaten beneath the Detroit River into Canada. No one will ever think to look there.

FTFY
[www.moodyscollectibles.com image 445x282]


Nah, hide it in the salt mines.
 
2013-08-20 06:09:05 AM

MrEricSir: Heaven forbid that this priceless art might end up somewhere that people could actually see it.


People can see it now.  If it is sold to private buyers, not so much.
 
2013-08-20 07:09:21 AM
Detroit if only liberal / race based politics had more time.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-08-20 09:02:23 AM

TheHopeDiamond: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Pay your bills or you can't have nice things. Detroit was run for years like a 19 yr old girl with a credit card. Sucks, the DIA is awesome but so is pensioner's health care and basic city services. Maybe city leaders should have run the DIA like every other major city and held the art in a trust. But nope, they own the art outright and it's an asset.

Except that it is paid for by taxes from the entire Tri-County area. I don't live in Detroit, but that art is as much mine as it is anyone's. And I don't feel like selling it.


No, admission and maintenance is paid for by the surrounding counties. The art is owned by Detroit, which is not clearly explained in TFA, but everything I've read to this point has said that. So if you take a ride in a taxi do you own it, or have a say if the driver sells the car?
 
2013-08-20 12:06:18 PM
My money is taken under the agreement that it goes to the upkeep and running of the Detroit Institute of Arts. Without art inside, it is a building. They are part and parcel of each other.

And "held in trust for the people of Michigan" includes me.  My art. You can't have it.
 
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