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(NPR)   American teens used to look forward to car ownership as the ultimate ticket to freedom, and getting laid. Now, they're too damn lazy get a job to buy some wheels, and getting a ride to GameStop in mom's minivan is just fine, even if they're 29   (npr.org) divider line 331
    More: Sad, Gamestop, Americans, political freedom, Woodward Dream Cruise, car culture, cars in america, damn, owners  
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10295 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Aug 2013 at 12:25 AM (35 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-19 04:58:38 PM

wingnut396: Kazrath: Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me?  Lets see.  Maybe it is called self respect?

Depends on your situation.  Moving out as soon as possible is a relatively new thing for families.  For quite some time, it is was perfectly fine to live in a family house or extended house.  This allow young people to leverage older member of the family to help watch and raise children.  It allows the older member to have younger members around for support.  It is not a bad thing in an of itself.  In many parts of the world, this is still the norm.  Granted in the industrialized world, it can be more difficult if some members need to move for schools, career and the like.

Personally, I moved out fairly soon, but in hind sight it was pretty farking stupid.  I didn't have the problems you did, but I went to incur rental and all those other expenses because otherwise you were a loser.  I should have stayed home and saved that money instead.  I pretty much had an apartment like area of the house anyway.  I'll have no problem if my kids want to stay for a while.


This.

Throughout most of human history, people lived with or very close to their extended families and supported each other.  Imagine that.  This whole bootstrappy nonsense where you're not a real man unless you left home at 14, worked three jobs, ate dirt, and financed your PhD by selling your blood plasma is baloney.

As to the issue at hand, some reasons off the top of my head why today's youth do not yearn for a car:

1) They are more connected online
2) Insurance is ridiculously expensive
3) Home entertainment is on par with going out
4) No money - youth unemployment is quite high.  And those with a job are lucky to get 10 hrs/wk.
5) There's nowhere to go
a) suburbia has pretty much killed hangouts like dirt roads, vacant lots, long straight roads for racing
b) teens are no longer welcome in public - just read any "kid thread" on Fark.  Minors are the only group of humans left that are socially acceptable to declare your hatred for, and so people do.  It's gotten to the point where even shopping malls ban teenagers unless accompanied by a parent.
 
2013-08-19 05:31:05 PM
First car was a 10-year-old station wagon. I think it cost $900. It wasn't a great car, but it was a car. So there's that. Then I bought a new truck. Should have bought used, but that's one of those things that you learn from being young and dumb. Don't buy a new car when you're barely making any money (or have a rich mommy/daddy who will buy a car for you). But I drove that truck for 10 years. Then got a couple of used cars. Geo Tracker (not a great car, but it was cute). Then a Toyota Echo, which was a pretty good car, got great mileage. Just got rid of it after driving it for about 10 years.

Just bought a new car. fark it, I'm employed and have money saved up. It's a Honda. Gets good mileage. And the safety features that come with a recently manufactured vehicle.

But if you're young and just starting out and don't have a ton of money, don't buy new. Buy used. Try not to get reamed on the interest rate. Buy a boring commuter car, like a Camry or Corolla.
 
2013-08-19 06:09:41 PM

Red_Fox: thenumber5: well, when i got my first car in 2000

i could fill it up with ~15 dollars a week

now to fill up my car it runs about 40


I often wonder if you Americans have any idea how cheap your gas is compared to even your next door neighbours?  You think 40$ to fill your car is expensive?  That's what it cost in Toronto 20 years ago.  I drive a Mazda 3, 2006 regular base model, and it cost 65$ to fill my tank this weekend.  It was nearly empty, we pay over 1.30 per litre.  Contrary to popular belief we actually make LESS money than at most equivalent jobs in the USA.  So quit your biatching..we actually don't have it that bad and you really have it EASY.  You would lose your minds if you found out how much they pay for gas in the EU.


A: you have a 16 gallon tank, i have a 12 gallon tank
B: you have much better access to public transport systems
C: you live in a "Big City", i live on a coast line that is spread over 26 miles
D: i would pay 15 dollars a gallon, if i had the access to Subway or bus system(that worked)
E: As my other points, pointed out. in the US we are much more spread out and in most places your whole economic livelihood is based on being able to get from a to b in a timely matter
 
2013-08-19 06:17:02 PM

Fissile: wingnut396: Kazrath: Why does 30 year olds living with mom bother me?  Lets see.  Maybe it is called self respect?

Depends on your situation.  Moving out as soon as possible is a relatively new thing for families.   For quite some time, it is was perfectly fine to live in a family house or extended house.  This allow young people to leverage older member of the family to help watch and raise children.  It allows the older member to have younger members around for support.  It is not a bad thing in an of itself.  In many parts of the world, this is still the norm.  Granted in the industrialized world, it can be more difficult if some members need to move for schools, career and the like.

Personally, I moved out fairly soon, but in hind sight it was pretty farking stupid.  I didn't have the problems you did, but I went to incur rental and all those other expenses because otherwise you were a loser.  I should have stayed home and saved that money instead.  I pretty much had an apartment like area of the house anyway.  I'll have no problem if my kids want to stay for a while.

==========

There are quite a few Indian (as in South Asian) families that live around here.  I don't know of a single household that is just kids and parents.  Usually it's grandparents, kids, grand-kids, unmarried aunts/uncles/cousins, etc.   BTW, they all have nice new cars.


the Italian side of my family grew up that way. They had a 4-family house in Brooklyn (mortgage free); none of them had a particularly high paying job but always managed to have nice cars. After my dad moved in with my mom, the roster included a cadillac, t-bird convertible, skylark convertible, and a corvette l88.
 
2013-08-19 07:40:35 PM

RockofAges: /before that, 1992 plymouth acclaim, 2years of service, $800.
//before that, 1993 plymouth acclaim (4cyl), 2 years of service, $700


Old man car high-five! I'm a week away from retiring my grandpa's 1990 Acclaim with 184,000km on it, and damn am I going to miss the plush dark red velvet interior. I've driven it for five years through all the weather Western Canada can throw at you, put four tires on it and did changed the transmission fluid at 160,000 km two years ago but otherwise it's cost me nothing more than {very cheap} insurance, gas, and oil changes. If the shocks weren't so tired I'd probably drive it another year..
 
2013-08-19 07:46:44 PM

thomps: Voodoo_Stu: I've been thinking about going carless, but I have to ask any one who has:  How the heck do you get groceries home?

zipcar for big grocery runs, backpack for small ones.


(Saw this one a lot bagging groceries near an impoverished area in the days before zipcar)

Take public transportation or walk to the store.  Make purchases.  Call taxi to bring you and your groceries home.
 
2013-08-19 07:56:25 PM

Cyno01: bongon247: Warlordtrooper: What jobs subby?   What jobs are available out there?  There are far more people looking for work then there are jobs for them.

Try going to your local stables and offering to shovel shiat...

Nobody wants to do it, and they might teach you something useful besides....

Werked fer me....

Woah woah woah, not all of us live in some sorta fancy pants richie rich area where theres stables to be mucked just down the road.


Erm, I grew up in a place called San Bernardino, CA.  You can figure that math for yourself...I lived on the North End.  You research the demographics and tell me if you think I was rich.
 
2013-08-19 08:01:55 PM

OgreMagi: bongon247: Warlordtrooper: What jobs subby?   What jobs are available out there?  There are far more people looking for work then there are jobs for them.

Try going to your local stables and offering to shovel shiat...

I've done that.  But that doesn't mean there are a lot of jobs doing that around here.  Also, the job was a lot more than mucking stalls.  It was also caring for the horses and taking tourists out on trail rides.  You don't get handed responsibility of a dozen idiots on horseback without being a damn skilled equestrian and having a few other important skills (like basic first aid).

Nobody wants to do it
, and they might teach you something useful besides....


You start by shoveling shiat...
 
2013-08-19 08:11:11 PM

bongon247: OgreMagi: bongon247: Warlordtrooper: What jobs subby?   What jobs are available out there?  There are far more people looking for work then there are jobs for them.

Try going to your local stables and offering to shovel shiat...

I've done that.  But that doesn't mean there are a lot of jobs doing that around here.  Also, the job was a lot more than mucking stalls.  It was also caring for the horses and taking tourists out on trail rides.  You don't get handed responsibility of a dozen idiots on horseback without being a damn skilled equestrian and having a few other important skills (like basic first aid).

Nobody wants to do it, and they might teach you something useful besides....

You start by shoveling shiat...


Not around here.  If you want to work with horses, you muck the stalls, feed the horses, brush them, clean their hooves, saddle them up, take the tourists out, then clean up afterwards.  There is no "start with cleaning the stalls".
 
2013-08-19 09:25:12 PM
If only there were some way to make a beginning at such a thing...

Like asking for a chance and working hard, instead of making excuses for ones self...

It doesn't work that way around here either, nor where I grew up, nor anywhere else I have ever been.

Candyass
 
2013-08-19 10:36:22 PM
ah der - this is because there is no more middle class - what kid can afford a car now?
 
2013-08-19 11:17:43 PM

bongon247: If only there were some way to make a beginning at such a thing...

Like asking for a chance and working hard, instead of making excuses for ones self...

It doesn't work that way around here either, nor where I grew up, nor anywhere else I have ever been.

Candyass


Despite being pointed out multiple times that the youth unemployment rate is through the roof, that there simply aren't jobs available for young people, you continue to scream how lazy kids are these days.

Dumbass
 
2013-08-19 11:46:38 PM
"Another reason often cited is money. Maynard says the average cost of a new car is about $30,000, before factoring in car insurance."

That thar is part of the problem, folks.  These entitled little shiats think they are soooo precious that they must have a brand new car before they can drive.  I, and I suspect most folks in this thread, had something a bit less impressive as a first vehicle.  Mine was a 9 yr old 76 pinto wagon with 70k miles on it.  That might seem virtually new nowadays but that was a fairly well aged car back then since 100k miles was pretty much the most you could expect from a vehicle of that era.

These kiddies need to wake the fark up and accept that they will not always get new, high-end things handed to them on a silver platter.  They could instead buy a new $12k Nissan Versa, or a used one, or even get something much cheaper.  There are plenty of cars with considerable life left in them for $2500 or so on craigslist.  As far as maintenance they could do this amazing never heard of thing and actually learn to perform basic maintenance themselves.  I know, I know. It is a stunning concept and would not allow them to feel as important as they would feel if they just forked over their money for someone else to do it.
 
2013-08-19 11:49:19 PM

ferretman: This article surprises me. I thought Obama had turned the economy around and there were jobs galore.


There are! You just need 3 of them because none of them give you more than 29 hours at minimum wage or less anymore.
 
2013-08-19 11:57:08 PM

OgreMagi: bongon247: If only there were some way to make a beginning at such a thing...

Like asking for a chance and working hard, instead of making excuses for ones self...

It doesn't work that way around here either, nor where I grew up, nor anywhere else I have ever been.

Candyass

Despite being pointed out multiple times that the youth unemployment rate is through the roof, that there simply aren't jobs available for young people, you continue to scream how lazy kids are these days.

Dumbass


The point is they don't need to wait to have a Mcjob handed to them.  They could go out and be a bit more entrepreneurial.  There are plenty of people that need work done or have a need that isn't being fulfilled.  You just need to go identify one of those needs and how to fill it, then go out and start a business. Todays youts seem to think the only jobs out there are with an already established company.  They don't even seem to consider the idea of working for themselves.

Not to mention I just don't buy the idea that jobs are that scarce.  You just have to be willing to do more than sit back and wait for them to come to you.  The company I work for hired a dozen or so summer interns mostly from Berkeley and Stanford for entry level engineering roles.  One got his job by directly contacting the company VP via linked in.  Not likely to be successful in most cases but clearly worth a shot.
 
2013-08-20 12:02:58 AM

Ima4nic8or: OgreMagi: bongon247: If only there were some way to make a beginning at such a thing...

Like asking for a chance and working hard, instead of making excuses for ones self...

It doesn't work that way around here either, nor where I grew up, nor anywhere else I have ever been.

Candyass

Despite being pointed out multiple times that the youth unemployment rate is through the roof, that there simply aren't jobs available for young people, you continue to scream how lazy kids are these days.

Dumbass

The point is they don't need to wait to have a Mcjob handed to them.  They could go out and be a bit more entrepreneurial.  There are plenty of people that need work done or have a need that isn't being fulfilled.  You just need to go identify one of those needs and how to fill it, then go out and start a business. Todays youts seem to think the only jobs out there are with an already established company.  They don't even seem to consider the idea of working for themselves.

Not to mention I just don't buy the idea that jobs are that scarce.  You just have to be willing to do more than sit back and wait for them to come to you.  The company I work for hired a dozen or so summer interns mostly from Berkeley and Stanford for entry level engineering roles.  One got his job by directly contacting the company VP via linked in.  Not likely to be successful in most cases but clearly worth a shot.


You comparing engineering students from Berkeley and Stanford to high schools kids looking for jobs to pay for a ride might be the stupidest thing I read all week, and I just spent 30 minutes reading through a Fark gun thread.
 
2013-08-20 12:10:34 AM
The same thing applies to the younger teens.  My neighbors 16 year old is a good example.  He doesn't have a formal job but does tons of odd work around the neighborhood: mowing lawns, walking dogs, trimming trees, etc..  It isn't his desired vocation but it puts a few dollars in his pocket and far more importantly it gets him frequent contact with people that have jobs and may know of an opportunity somewhere.  He could sit back and whine about the lack of jobs for teens but instead he identified something that could earn him a few bucks and got off his ass and put out a few fliers.
 
2013-08-20 12:12:45 AM

Ima4nic8or: These kiddies need to wake the fark up and accept that they will not always get new, high-end things handed to them on a silver platter.  They could instead buy a new $12k Nissan Versa, or a used one, or even get something much cheaper.  There are plenty of cars with considerable life left in them for $2500 or so on craigslist.  As far as maintenance they could do this amazing never heard of thing and actually learn to perform basic maintenance themselves.  I know, I know. It is a stunning concept and would not allow them to feel as important as they would feel if they just forked over their money for someone else to do it.


Most kids can't afford a $12k car either. And the cheaper ones? An unreliable car can be worse than no car.
You fix it up, take out insurance and ta-da, it dumps you on the side of the road, causing you to miss work at the new job you needed to pay for it. Employers don't care what you're car problem is. You're unreliable now.
 
2013-08-20 12:13:36 AM
*your, you're
 
2013-08-20 12:18:22 AM
Ima4nic8or:
The point is they don't need to wait to have a Mcjob handed to them.  They could go out and be a bit more entrepreneurial.  There are plenty of people that need work done or have a need that isn't being fulfilled.  You just need to go identify one of those needs and how to fill it, then go out and start a business. Todays youts seem to think the only jobs out there are with an already established company.  They don't even seem to consider the idea of working for themselves.

Start your own business, borrow $20,000 from your parents if you have to!

Oh yeah, and if your neighbors can't afford to put meat on the table, they're not gonna hire a dang dog walker!
 
2013-08-20 12:20:48 AM

Ima4nic8or: OgreMagi: bongon247: If only there were some way to make a beginning at such a thing...

Like asking for a chance and working hard, instead of making excuses for ones self...

It doesn't work that way around here either, nor where I grew up, nor anywhere else I have ever been.

Candyass

Despite being pointed out multiple times that the youth unemployment rate is through the roof, that there simply aren't jobs available for young people, you continue to scream how lazy kids are these days.

Dumbass

The point is they don't need to wait to have a Mcjob handed to them.  They could go out and be a bit more entrepreneurial.  There are plenty of people that need work done or have a need that isn't being fulfilled.  You just need to go identify one of those needs and how to fill it, then go out and start a business. Todays youts seem to think the only jobs out there are with an already established company.  They don't even seem to consider the idea of working for themselves.

Not to mention I just don't buy the idea that jobs are that scarce.  You just have to be willing to do more than sit back and wait for them to come to you.  The company I work for hired a dozen or so summer interns mostly from Berkeley and Stanford for entry level engineering roles.  One got his job by directly contacting the company VP via linked in.  Not likely to be successful in most cases but clearly worth a shot.


There are no jobs.
They're just lazy.
There are no jobs.
They're just lazy.

I won't waste my farking time posting a chart showing the unemployment rate for young people that shows THERE ARE NO FARKING JOBS because you'll repeat "they're just lazy".

You are the perfect example of why people thing republicans are giant douchebags.
 
2013-08-20 12:39:15 AM

tbhouston: Revmachine21


Car and cat counting the same. ZERO! Yay for zero.
 
2013-08-20 02:21:51 AM

Harry_Seldon: tinfoil-hat maggie: ArmednHammered: Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.

WHAT! I could have gotten The Clash for my clunker? Son of  Biatch did I miss a deal!
What the Clash might have looked like...

[i773.photobucket.com image 287x176]

You sir are brilliant : )

How funny, I really typed "Clash." Many years ago, I had to play "chaperone" for the members of The Clash in Los Angeles. They were doing a publicity event, and my job was to keep them out of trouble for the day.


That's the most interesting thing I've heard all day - what was that like for you?
 
2013-08-20 03:39:20 AM
I can't speak for young men, but young women can start a cam and make 1 to 20k a month.
 
2013-08-20 04:22:35 AM

bborchar: JorgiX: As a teen, I am getting a kick of this thread. The disconnect between what was reality decades ago and what it is now is immense, but what seems even more alarming is that some people's perception has not changed at all.

To start, cars are not as cheap as they used to be. I do not have empirical data to support Cash for Clunkers as the reason, but it is clear that it is almost impossible to find even the shiattiest of cars for under $1000.

Part-time jobs are not as plentiful as they were before. Sure, you had three jobs in high school and could afford an old car and maybe even a place to live. Well now in a ton of markets you are not competing for those jobs with a bunch of teens, you are also competing with people that were pushed out of their jobs by the recession and have as many years in experience as you living on this planet. I don't blame hiring managers for choosing them since they don't only have more experience, but are a much steadier source of labor when you consider that they might be stuck there for a while and are not leaving for college or the military any time soon. Multiple jobs are almost a thing of the past in some particularly hit regions.

The cost of things has risen astronomically faster than wages. This obviously affects everyone, but young people might be the group that has been hit the hardest. Again, I do not have any empirical data to support this, but it sure seems that way. The cost of college continues to rise, aid is not as comprehensive as it was before, and other things particularly relevant to  young people (technology, clothing, student housing, etc.)  continue to rise in price. Couple that to the lack of jobs, and the fact that you have never lived to work during the good times and hence you have no savings, and the picture becomes quite dire.

Paid internships are increasingly harder to come by. Even large companies in lucrative sectors like finance and technology keep making intern positions unpaid and still getting ...


The economic crisis happened on their watch, and they are the ones who chose to have kids while also choosing to defund schools, slash social programs, and remove nonacademic tracks. If we must distribute blame, it's clear the youngest generation can't possibly bear the brunt of it.

This isn't about generational warfare. As much as the current generation should not be called lazy and shiftless, they should understand how and why those that came before them failed. Together, we can fix this. But only together.
 
2013-08-20 05:32:02 AM

solitary: Harry_Seldon: tinfoil-hat maggie: ArmednHammered: Harry_Seldon: Quantum Apostrophe: It can't possibly the end of the cheap energy fiesta and people's priorities change as a consequence?

It is Obama's fault. The Clash for Clunkers program removed large numbers of perfectly good used vehicles from the market.

WHAT! I could have gotten The Clash for my clunker? Son of  Biatch did I miss a deal!
What the Clash might have looked like...

[i773.photobucket.com image 287x176]

You sir are brilliant : )

How funny, I really typed "Clash." Many years ago, I had to play "chaperone" for the members of The Clash in Los Angeles. They were doing a publicity event, and my job was to keep them out of trouble for the day.

That's the most interesting thing I've heard all day - what was that like for you?


Honestly? It was was really unpleasant, and the closest I ever got to getting killed. It was all fun and games until someone pissed of a Hell's Angel.
 
2013-08-20 07:33:15 AM

Xenomech: they're too damn lazy get a job to buy some wheels

In the 70s, a typical factory worker supporting a family could buy a brand new car and pay it off in one year.

 [citation needed]

Today, a typical white-collar worker in a double-income home supporting a family can buy a brand new car and pay it off in six years.

But, yeah, this has nothing to do with the destruction of the economy by 1%ers over the past 30 years.  It's that people are *lazy* nowadays. (rollseyes)


Or, you know, endless government legislative red tape making cars "safer" and more "economical" and etc which only means increased costs on the automotive industry.  Then there are the unions.  Those aren't cheap.  All of these costs get moved to the consumer.
If Honda could still churn our stamped steel cages that could do 75mpg on a 600cc engine, they'd be just as cheap inflation adjusted, and would be bought in record numbers.  And those 1%ers you decry would be making even more money.  So, it probably wasn't entirely their idea to squash their cash cows.
 
2013-08-20 07:35:38 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: As a 17 year old, we have to deal with a unique situation in American societal history that no previous generations had to contend with. We don't have the access to opportunities that our grandparents did, or the promise of high paying jobs out of high school, or the ability to get a higher education without taking out loans.

I tried to get a summer job, and the only one offered to me was a courier at my step-dad's real estate company. I would have been out walking during the hottest part of the day, and only making $15 per hour.

Excuse us if we're content to stay home and make an impact on the world through blogs and social media instead of working for slave wages so we can live some antiquated American dream.



I was looking for a job, AND THEN I FOUND A JOB, and heaven knows I'm miserable now. The unique situation you have to contend with is that you're a spoiled rotten kid.
 
2013-08-20 09:31:00 AM

Red_Fox: thenumber5: well, when i got my first car in 2000

i could fill it up with ~15 dollars a week

now to fill up my car it runs about 40


I often wonder if you Americans have any idea how cheap your gas is compared to even your next door neighbours?  You think 40$ to fill your car is expensive?  That's what it cost in Toronto 20 years ago.  I drive a Mazda 3, 2006 regular base model, and it cost 65$ to fill my tank this weekend.  It was nearly empty, we pay over 1.30 per litre.  Contrary to popular belief we actually make LESS money than at most equivalent jobs in the USA.  So quit your biatching..we actually don't have it that bad and you really have it EASY.  You would lose your minds if you found out how much they pay for gas in the EU.


Oh, we're aware, we just regard your high prices as something that you (and the Europeans) have chosen to do to yourselves, and thus its your business.  The only reason your gas is so expensive is because of punitively high gasoline taxes.  I don't see why Americans should care one way or another about your domestic taxation policies.

Though if you feel your gas is too expensive and want to pay less, maybe you should petition your government to lower your gasoline taxes.
 
2013-08-20 10:03:33 AM

Doc Daneeka: Red_Fox: thenumber5: well, when i got my first car in 2000

i could fill it up with ~15 dollars a week

now to fill up my car it runs about 40


I often wonder if you Americans have any idea how cheap your gas is compared to even your next door neighbours?  You think 40$ to fill your car is expensive?  That's what it cost in Toronto 20 years ago.  I drive a Mazda 3, 2006 regular base model, and it cost 65$ to fill my tank this weekend.  It was nearly empty, we pay over 1.30 per litre.  Contrary to popular belief we actually make LESS money than at most equivalent jobs in the USA.  So quit your biatching..we actually don't have it that bad and you really have it EASY.  You would lose your minds if you found out how much they pay for gas in the EU.

Oh, we're aware, we just regard your high prices as something that you (and the Europeans) have chosen to do to yourselves, and thus its your business.  The only reason your gas is so expensive is because of punitively high gasoline taxes.  I don't see why Americans should care one way or another about your domestic taxation policies.

Though if you feel your gas is too expensive and want to pay less, maybe you should petition your government to lower your gasoline taxes.


Whuuuaaah?  They TAX petrol!?
 
2013-08-20 10:33:11 AM
Being car-less in rural areas is a huge suck. You're on a short leash, opportunities are limited to walk/ bicycle distance. You will own a backpack for the groceries and beer, or else bum and bribe for rides.
Socially, it kills spontaneity and impulse. Even the most minor event will require pre-planning. Your date won't be impressed- assuming you haven't already been weeded out. One drunk opined "Telling your date you don't have a license is about as bad as telling her you have a kid at home".
I got the hell out by buying a 5-speed stick Fiesta wagon/ mom-mobile dirt cheap and aimed toward Cincinnati where I was invited. They don't have trains and the buses outside of downtown only run a little past 6PM, but it's an improvement.
 
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